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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Cheating Husband Kills Wife And Kids; Accused Killer Dad To Face More Charges; Exclusive New Details To Chris Watts Case. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired September 25, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- evidence that pointed us in the right direction in regards to a potential suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN WATTS, HUSBAND OF SHANANN WATTS, SUSPECT: She wasn`t here, the kids weren`t here, nobody was here.

SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: In between those times of me dropping her off, Chris leaving and me coming back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first he said they were missing.

WATTS: I have no information of where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But then they turned up murdered. Now he is saying his wife killed the kids.

WATTS: We have an emotional conversation. But I`ll leave it at that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But police say he killed them all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a monster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he might have just left a trail of clues behind in the rush to get out of the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something is seriously wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, new reports about the state of that home that became a crime scene.

WATTS: Canine units, the sheriff`s department, they are going through the house. You`re good, just go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plus, how did the Watts girls die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strangulation involves force that can increases the amount of skin cells.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone has the answers, why aren`t they sharing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Coroner`s office doesn`t have the report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is possible, maybe they don`t want to have the answers out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why the dark details are staying secret for now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this unusual? Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield and this is "Crime and Justice." Tonight, the darker

details of this case hangs in what you could call a paper purgatory. Court documents stuck between the court and the Coroner and the actual forensic

pathology who got a look at the Watts` girl`s corpses. We`re going to get into that in a moment, but first, we have exclusive new details tonight,

from the people in Colorado who are perhaps the most impacted by this case.

The family members of Shanann Watts. The family members, haunted by these murders that Shanann and her babies. The family members who buried Shanann

and those two daughters, just weeks ago in North Carolina, but tonight find themselves back in Frederick, Colorado. The same place where Chris Watts

is accused of killing them. A source close to the case telling me that not only Shanann`s mother, Sandra Rzucek but also Shanann`s brother and best

friend, Frankie Rzucek, traveling back from North Carolina back to Colorado, the scene of the crime.

It`s just so tragic. When you think of what they`re going through. Every single day. After burying them and hoping for some peace in this case,

instead, they are back in Colorado, this family. And not only that, they are back for specific reasons, they are back to quote, take care of things.

What that entails, not entirely sure, but I can tell you this. Several days both Sandra Rzucek and her son Frankie went back to Colorado. They

were seen checking into the Carbon Valley Recreational Center, why that is, is unclear.

What that recreational center may offer them either respite or maybe information, also unclear. Whether they met with law enforcement at this

time, not clear, but Steve Moore is a former FBI agent and investigator, also a CNN law enforcement analyst. Perhaps you can clear up why it might

be that this family now six weeks after the murder would be traveling back to Colorado. Spending several days there, and doing something which I can

say a source close to the case has told me is taking care of things. What do you think that means.

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, besides the normal process of possessions and things like that, there may -- the police may

want background on the husband, and certainly Shanann spoke to her family about him, and my guess is they do -- they want to do a deep debrief with

the family on any and every single thing that she said to them.

BANFIELD: So do you think, Steve -- do you think that they might be going back there not just to take care of a few things, but also to speak again

with police officers or investigators there?

MOORE: I think so, and maybe prosecutors specifically, because the police have put together their case, and now the prosecutors have to go in court

and prove it, and so the prosecutors, you know, the investigators and the prosecutors work at different paces at different times, and it`s very

possible that they want to meet with the family. Of course with the detectives, but they want to start building the entire case.

[18:05:15] BANFIELD: Let me ask you something else, the source tells me that the prosecutor`s office has been in regular contact with Shanann`s

family back in North Carolina, and that often the communications that come from the office to the family as opposed to the other way around, getting

questions answered, et cetera, but the communications from the prosecutors to this family are offering them hope. Actually suggesting that the

prosecutors are going to get this guy, are going to find justice for this family. Does that sound out of the norm?

MOORE: No, because when you`re dealing with families of victims, you have to give them something. You can`t just say, this is -- we`re not going to

get anything done here. I believe that they have reason to tell them that. They have reason to believe they`re going to get justice for them, as much

justice as you can get, knowing they`re not going to bring the victims back, but it is a very delicate and painful thing for both sides for the

prosecutors to work with the victim`s families, because sometimes the families want more from the prosecutors than they can give. And sometimes

the prosecutors want more from the family than they have, so it`s very, very difficult.

BANFIELD: So Steve, what do you make of this that they were checking in with some friends? In fact, one of Shanann Watts best friends, long time

best friends who also was in Colorado, Lauren Arnold, apparently with Shanann`s mother Sandy, and Shanann`s brother Frankie. As well as Lauren

Arnold`s mother, Lorie Williams Carter, all four of them checking in at this Carbon Valley Recreational Center. Do you see that as anything

potentially investigative? I mean, recreational centers can be anything but they can also be places with a lot of workout facilities, we all know

that Chris Watts was doing a lot of working out.

MOORE: Yes, and I don`t know if they would put the victim`s families in an area where evidence might be found, but the fact that they`re bringing

people who would had been confidants of Shanann is indicative of something to me. It tells me that they are trying to find out what was in her mind

in the months previous to this, maybe in the years previous to this. They`re going to try and build a case not just on the facts and the

evidence, but they are going to try and build it on a profile of how Chris degenerated to a point where he was willing to kill his family.

BANFIELD: Let`s be clear, the Carbon Valley Recreational Center is right in Frederick, it is in that very small community where Shanann and her

children lived with Chris Watts, before being murdered, but we don`t know anything about it. I mean, this could have been -- like I said, it could

had been respite, it could have been them going for lunch. It could had been just going to get a quiet day, we really don`t know why these four

were seen checking into the Carbon Valley Recreational Center or what exactly the several days in Colorado are all about.

But I want to bring in Pat Lalama if I can, a crime journalist. Pat, one of the very fascinating aspects of this case which we poke on this show

last night and then, surprise, surprise, we stared seeing motions flying around this morning, was that the prosecutor`s office had a deadline of

today, to share the autopsies with the defense.

The defense has been barking mad about not having discovery shared with them. Understandably, right? But the prosecutors didn`t have the autopsy.

They`re being ordered by the court to turn over the autopsies, but they don`t have the autopsies. So, they filed a motion today, telling the

court, you`re barking up the wrong tree with us, I am really fascinated about this, because it seems to me that the only people who are in

possession of these official reports are the people who actually did the forensic science. The people in the operating rooms, who actually

witnessed these three bodies?

PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Well, Ashleigh, it`s really, you know, not to take the side of the Coroner`s office, everybody

wants to see these details, but the prosecution is saying, at this point we don`t have everything. A lot of forensic evidence is yet to be completed,

and when we do dear defense team. We know the rules of the court.

And I have to tell you, Ashleigh, I doubt that they`re going to mess with procedure. They`re not going to hold back something that they know the

defense is entitled to have. I think we just have to give it a little more time. I don`t see -- this is shenanigans, it`s the way the game is played

at this point.

BANFIELD: And I will tell you what, it`s not the first time we`ve witnessed this game, so here is a very, very unfortunate coincidence and we

are not passing this versions at all on this Coroner.

LALAMA: Right.

BANFIELD: But this particular Coroner in this case was sued back in 2002, because very unfortunate for him, he took a job with the Coroner`s office

in Jefferson County, Colorado. It was not this county, but it was Jefferson County, Colorado.

[18:10:10] And low and behold, that was the county where the Columbine massacre happened, and that was the county where Dylan Kleebold`s body was

being held and the autopsy was being performed. Dylan Kleebold being one of two mass murderers, along with Eric Harris, killing those children at

Columbine.

His body and his autopsy was being withheld, believe it or not. And that Coroner was sued for not releasing the full autopsy, but again it may be

the same Coroner we`re talking about now, but he wasn`t the guy who did it, he joined the team later, he just happened to be named in the suit, it is

fascinating now to see that the Dylan Kleebold autopsy was also withheld for a very long time. And that crime -- let me bring in Joseph Scott

Morgan, real quickly here. Joe, you are certified death investigator, you teach this stuff for god`s sake, I mean, if anybody knows it, a professor

of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Not only that you`ve also participated, this is news to me, in about 10,000 autopsy, is that correct?

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC, JACKSONVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes, yes, you`re absolutely correct. I worked for the Coroner in New

Orleans.

BANFIELD: So you would know the ins and outs of how this works. Can you help me to sort of navigate why the delay from the person actually

performing the autopsy, the medical examiner, the forensic pathology, why that report has not been delivered in seven weeks, 6 1/2 weeks or so, to

the Coroner`s office so the Coroner, the elective guy, can actually deliver it to the prosecutors? What could be the holdup?

MORGAN: Yes. I`m not going to speak directly to the Watts case, but I will tell you, based upon my experience some of the things that come into

play here are cooperation with the D.A., the D.A. has asked that this not be released at this point. Sometimes the police will ask for this sort of

thing, and sometimes if you have a staff of forensic pathologists, keep in mind these are highly technical people, they are very bright and

intelligent, and they go over every jot and title if you will in this cases. Sometimes, they make decisions on mass, they try to come to a

determination to help the primary forensic pathologist, and sometimes they don`t agree.

I would think that -- you know, we talked a lot about postmortem interval in this case. We don`t know how oil actually affects bodies in a

suspension like this, so they may be going back and forth on scientific details. And then of course, there`s, you know, people think about for

instance, layers of buffering that take place. You have the D.A. saying they don`t have it, the police say, they don`t have it, and then you have

the Coroner saying they don`t have it. And keep in mind in this particular case, the M.E.`s that they have are employed as consultants. You can

actually see that on their county website. They are not listed as direct employees, but listed as consultants -- consultant forensic pathologists.

So that adds another layer to this.

BANFIELD: So, let me bring in Dauna Kauffman, an investigative journalist. She is also the author of "Rule Presents Final Exams." Dauna, you have

covered so many of these crime stories, and you covered the Jonbenet Ramsey case, it might be that our audience doesn`t remember this, one critical

detail, but in that particular case as well, Jonbenet Ramsey`s autopsy was withhold from the public for how long?

DAUNA KAUFFMAN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Eight months. And it was performed on December 27th. She died on either the 25th or 26th in

boulder, Colorado. The 27th was the autopsy, and it was very thorough. They even brought in a scope, which is a camera that can take photos of her

internal injuries and they sat on it.

BANFIELD: Tell me why. What was the reason ultimately, because now, so many years later, I am sure that that is all have sunshine, you know, watch

upon it, what was the reason they held on for eight months to that autopsy.

KAUFFMAN: Well, first they released it without the genital findings. And we said, hey you`re missing a few pages here. Then they released the whole

thing, they just wanted to get their ducks in a row. While they were doing that, while we were all waiting. And believe me, this was an international

case. People were going to people who worked in that office with buckets of cash and saying just give me a copy of it. And they were refusing all

offers of that nature.

At the same time, the Boulder D.A. was maybe with other D.A.`s in the state, the FBI, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, international,

national help, three pediatric gynecologists, I mean, it was a world class --

[18:15:10] BANFIELD: Did they also -- did the experts who did her autopsy also have disagreements about what ultimately killed her? Because in that

case, we were trying to figure out whether if she was killed by the ligature. Or whether she was killed by the blow on the head. Is that also

a factor in why they held the public release of Jonbenet`s autopsy for so long?

KAUFFMAN: They kept expanding their teams of experts to have different opinions, what they -- the question -- on the final exam, it said asphyxia

by strangulation, associated with cranial cerebral trauma.

BANFIELD: So both, it doesn`t sound like they decided one or the other.

KAUFFMAN: The ligature happens first and the blow to her head which fractured her skull, eight and half inches on one side happened second. At

the same time she had genital injuries.

BANFIELD: Maybe this is something we need to take into account. Again, this is Colorado, right? Maybe this is what we have to take in to account.

The fact that there could be disagreement about the order. Or it could be other injuries or other potential realities in this case, other than what

Chris Watts allegedly has confessed to. One last quick question, and this one is to Steve Moore. As a former FBI agent and investigator, tell me

this, I can`t get this from the D.A., they are locked tight with the information. But do you think they already know? Do you think they`ve

already had something called the cold read, as I learned from you? They already know, despite having those formal reports in their hands how these

women and how these two girls and this woman died?

MORGAN: The interaction between investigators and the medical examiner`s office is verbal. It`s on the phone. I mean I -- on my cases, I would

actually be in the autopsy. There would be nothing surprising to me, when the report came. And I would be in touch with them every day, have you

gotten the toxicology back? Have you gotten this back?

So, yes, the police know within minutes of the medical examiner knowing, and they might -- I mean, there`s reasons and we can discuss that later,

but one of the things you say, if you don`t want it out right away. They will say, I`ll send you the report right now, and you say, you know, why

don`t you go back and double check everything? It might take you a couple days, right? OK, go back and do that, and then send it to me.

BANFIELD: It happens all the time. Makes sense to me, but I just can`t imagine that they have started investigating a case without knowing the

genesis of the case which is the cause of death. I`ve seen cases go down on cause of death before. Steve, hold your thoughts for a moment, if you

will. Because Shanann and Chris Watts home presumably had the latest in home security technology. And how do we know this? Because of the

pictures on the outside of the house and devices like this. A doorbell camera and wireless smart lock.

So here is the question, might Chris Watts have been watching very closely what was going on outside his home, monitoring his security remotely? The

day Shanann and the girls were buried? And could investigators, now themselves mind all of those electronics, to potentially trip up his time

line, and trip up the things he said he did at certain times. Wait until you hear what else is monitored in that home.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They also just seemed like a normal family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first heard about it, I thought, oh, my goodness, no.

S. WATTS: There`s a purpose, there`s a reason for everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the days and hours passed, neighbors are trying to stay hopeful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The camera of the neighbor saw that truck pulling out.

WATTS: Her flight got delayed from Arizona, because of like, thunderstorms around the nation. She was supposed to get home at 11:00, she got home

like at 1:48.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Chris Watts was oddly specific. 1:48 a.m. Monday August 13th. That is when he first told reporters that his wife had come home from a

business trip, the morning she mysteriously went missing. But when Shanann`s body was found buried at his work site next to the oil tanks

where police say, he dumped their daughters. Well, Chris apparently made some update to his timeline. Telling investigators, actually, his wife had

killed the kids early that morning, and that he in turn outrage and strangled her, before driving off to hide all of those dead bodies.

Chris was allegedly caught on a neighbor`s security camera leaving in his truck at 5:30 in the morning, but that is not all that could have been

captured on Saratoga trail that day. Because there may have been a few comings and goings that were registered in silence by all the home security

systems that the Watts family thought. Systems that could tell us now whether Chris Watts` timeline is truth or lies. And whether Chris Watts

tried to keep anyone else from discovering that his family had been murdered that day in that home.

[18:25:15] I want to bring in a technology expert, Mark Saltzman. He joins me live now. Mark, I couldn`t help, but notice something very curious in

one of these prolific Facebook videos that Shanann Watts posted before she died. And I`m going to give a little background to you and our viewers as

to what you`re about to see. But it was Chris this time and Shanann and Chris were dressed up as Santa and an elf, and the whole idea was that

Santa would come do the door, surprise the girls, ask them what they wanted, and give them some gifts.

Shanann all the while was going to videotape the whole thing. Actually broadcast it live, Facebook live and then take still photos on Chris`s

phone. The only problem was, Chris dressed up as Santa has forgotten his phone in the garage. So Shanann had to walk through the house and open up

the door to the garage at which point we heard in crystal clear fashion what the security system in that house looked like and sounded like. Have

a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: I got to get the phone. This is hard. As one parent. The mom`s got to get pictures. Hold please. My husband`s a genius, doesn`t

listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Interior garage door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Mark, that couldn`t have been lost on you. She opened the door from the house to the attached garage, and you heard it twice, interior

garage door. My question to you is, do all of those door openings get logged somewhere, and are they kept for posterity, and is the length of

time that door is open also recorded?

MARC SALTZMAN, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT: The answer is yes. And great investigative journalism by the way for noticing that audio bit. So, yes,

when you use one of these smart garage door openers or even a front door smart lock. You can remotely lock and unlock the door, or if someone else

does, see the time line of when that was locked or unlocked. And how long the door was opened for. So, yes, you could find out how long that garage

door was opened for. This is what the authorities are using along with other technology they had in the home like Amazon, Alexa, and a video baby

monitor, smart phones to build up that time line and see if it gels with Chris`s story.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. If Chris Watts story is true, and I have a real tough time believing it, because it just seems crazy, but let`s

give him the benefit of the doubt, if his story is true, and he woke up and had some emotional conversation with Shanann at 4:00 or 5:00, because he

told those two different stories to two different officers, and then ultimately, all of those deaths happened, two of them at her hands and one

of them at his hands, and then he said he loaded those bodies into his car, which had been backed into the garage. That is caught on camera. And then

drove off.

Well, presumably then, that door from the home to the garage would have to be open for a length of time after 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., in order for him to

drag three bodies and load them into his truck. That door would have to be open or several times in a row open at 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., so for instance,

if that is not what happened and if Chris say killed Shanann as she came home from her work trip at 2:00 a.m. and loaded those bodies then, that

would all be logged and the security company could actually be subpoenaed and those records could be looked at, at how many times and at what time

and for how long was that garage door to the house opened and closed.

SALTZMAN: Yes. That is exactly right. And I spoke to them, by the way, the security company today that the Watts used for their doorbell, the

video doorbell and their garage door opener and other technologies all in the same network, by the way just a separate network that is not your

regular router. But, yes, they said that if they saw the right court orders that there was a search warrant. They would work with the

authorities to hand over that data. It is encrypted though originally, so that means that it`s a direct communication between you as a homeowner and

that technology. And you can call that up any time you want. But you could choose to share that data, if he wanted to share the video footage or

the garage door data to somebody else, he could as well.

BANFIELD: How long do these files stay in the cloud or registered at home office?

SALTZMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: I mean, six weeks is starting to get a little long, if they haven`t already grabbed that information. Do they have a chance still?

SALTZMAN: Yes, that is a great point. I know that their video footage it`s about 15 days and that is the default setting, you could pay to extend

that to access that in the cloud which is online from any device, anywhere, but I would suspect that if it would have that data somewhere, on the back

end, should the authorities request it, that`s just a hunch.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: Interesting. You think that they may have -- even though you may not have paid for the

longer storage, they may still have it? And if police come calling --

SALTZMAN: Probably not the video footage, but at least the data --

BANFIELD: The data.

SALTZMAN: -- of the garage door opener use. Yeah, that`s right.

BANFIELD: The data is --

SALTZMAN: And by the way --

BANFIELD: And it`s all about the data, Marc, because when you`re looking at a time line like Chris Watts had crafted, after he crafted the lies on

the front porch, if he crafted a big old lie about what happened in that house that night, at least the data of that door opening up to load the

bodies into the truck may prove him right or wrong.

Let me ask you one other thing. I don`t know, can our producers find this picture that really just got me in the throat? It`s Bella and Celeste at

the front door, and they`re standing directly beneath that smart doorbell. The doorbell cam and the smart lock. Do you see the lock right above the

handle?

There they are in joyous times. But right above them, zero in on that little keypad. That smart lock can have separate codes. So for instance if

I come home, I can put in my code. And if my husband comes home, he can put in his code. If our -- you know, a mother-in-law comes in, she`s got a

code, or a friend has a code. All of those codes can open up that door.

Lo and behold, Marc, I just found out that a notification can be sent to the homeowner, so and so is at your front door and just open the door.

SALTZMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: Because guess what happened the day that these -- this family went missing. Nicole (ph) Atkinson, Shanann`s friend, came over and was

able to open that door only to find it locked from the inside. Is it possible that Chris Watts got a notification thing? Nicole (ph) just opened

your door at your house. You know the place where all that may have happened last May.

I am just wondering if he got that information before the police called in to say, sir, you need to come home and give us your keypad which you said

didn`t work. You need to come home and open this door. He said, I`ll be there in five minutes. Did he have -- was he wise to that beforehand?

SALTZMAN: I don`t know the details of that part of the case, but technically speaking, yes, she could be on the list of people who are

allowed to use a code and presumably it would be a different code than the family members.

That`s always, you know, recommended. And that`s called an e-key, by the way. That`s like your friend saying, I`m nearby, can I use your bathroom,

for example. So you send them a temporary key that lets them in through their phone and that`s that, and you will be notified.

There`s one other thing to be aware of, Ashleigh, that`s the neighborhood watch element to all of this. Viven (ph) has an optional app called

"Streany" (ph) that lets you communally share video footage from all those video doorbells and other cameras through the Viven (ph) system and share

it collectively with your consent. It is an opt in feature that could also show if this friend showed up at the door at that time, presumably.

BANFIELD: Super fascinating, because up until now, I had thought that Chris Watts was wise to Nicole (ph) Atkinson, because police called and

then he saw her on the doorbell cam. But who knows if he knew she was there because a signal electronically went to him saying, Nicole (ph) Atkinson`s

key pass -- her code was just used to get into your house. And lo and behold, he knew he was in trouble and needed to make a move very quickly.

God forbid what might have happened to her. Who knows? Honest to god, who knows? Because if he is guilty of killing his wife and his babies, would it

have been such a big deal to wipe out another witness? It gives me the chills to think of it. It gives me the chills to see those little girls

standing beneath the smart lock.

I just want to note to our audience before I go to break, there is something called a one touch emergency panel that they may very well have

had because it`s part of the Viven`s (ph) smart home package. And it allows you to go beep, emergency help me, like I just watched my wife kill my

kids.

One touch, and 911 is called. One touch as opposed to finding your phone in the heat of craziness and dialing 911 and trying to yell into the phone

what is happening. No, all it would take for Chris Watts if he saw what he saw and was as appalled as he said he was, the murder of his daughters

right before his face, one touch could have called 911. Didn`t happen.

And then when Chris Watts stood in the front of his house with all those cameras when Shanann and the girls had just disappeared, you know, we all

had a feeling he might be lying. He seemed like he was lying.

But in looking over the charges that he is now facing, all nine of them felonies, he might be missing some charges. Because he swore up and down to

us the public and to the police that they were missing. Those people were missing. And we all know that was a lie. And we all know that`s illegal.

You can go to jail for it.

[18:35:00] So, will that charge be added to his case? That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time your client goes on video and says something like that, and then the evidence totally contradicts it --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where my kids are.

[18:40:00] I don`t know where Shanann is.

BANFIELD (on camera): He lied to all of us. Why are we to suspect for a moment he`s not going to lie to the police?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You believed him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did. And we felt so stupid about that now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody has her. Please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: He is charged with five counts of first-degree murder and three counts of tampering with evidence and one for unlawfully terminating a

pregnancy. But could Chris Watts wind up facing even more charges?

Because whether or not he killed his family, by his own alleged admission, he has already done something very illegal and punishable by jail. And that

is, he lied. Not just to us. He lied to the police.

He told them his wife and daughters were missing hours after he supposedly dumb their dead bodies at his work site. And if he is lying about Shanann

being the one who killed the kids, who knows what other charges could be added to that pile.

Pat Lalama joins me now. Pat, when we were thinking through this, we couldn`t help but harkin back to a famous case, a murder case where the

defendant skated on the murder, but could not skate on the lying. And if I need to remind our viewers who that famous defendant was, it was none other

than Miss Casey Anthony.

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Right.

BANFIELD: Let`s roll the tape to remind ourselves of her exquisite lying.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): We`re here because? We got here how? To do what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Because I lied, because I brought you up here. And honestly I was reaching for --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Now stop right there. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): It`s not going to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Take it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I dropped her off at that apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): At those stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Oh, you just walked her. You dropped her off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times besides just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Zani did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Who else did you talk to about this besides Jeffrey? You said you tired to call Zenaida`s mom. You talk to

Jeffrey. Who else did you talk to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I talked to Juliette Lewis. She was one of my co-workers at Universal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Did you actually talk with -- what day was it you talked to her?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You remember what time of day?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Around noon. It was from a private number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): What did she tell you? What did your daughter say to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): She said, hi mommy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: No, she didn`t. She just lied. She lied in every one of those instances and it landed her four convictions, didn`t it?

LALAMA: Well, she got four years in jail, but time served, so once again, essentially she skated. What really strikes me as so fascinating, Ashleigh,

is the way she lies with reckless abandon, as if she really believes the stories that she`s telling or she loves this cat and mouse game, she gets

the attention of messing with the minds of law enforcement.

In the case of Mr. Watts, perhaps obstruction of justice, perhaps filing a false police report, who knows, but he lied and he is probably not going to

stop.

BANFIELD: Casey had to pay too for those lies, didn`t she? Because it cost a lot of money to investigate Caylee`s disappearance. Do you remember those

numbers?

LALAMA: I do not remember those numbers.

BANFIELD: let me look here, hold on a second. Ultimately, she was ordered to pay more than $217,000 for investigating.

LALAMA: Yeah, right.

BANFIELD: Look at that. Look at these numbers. Now, she could have been really walled (ph) because what the prosecutors asked for was a half

million, $516,000, for all the work they had to do and the months and months they searched for that little baby because she lied --

LALAMA: How much do you think she`s paid, Ashleigh? How much do you think she`s paid to that?

BANFIELD: I`m not so sure a dime. I really don`t think a dime. A lot of money issues with that young lady. But it just stands to reason that this

guy did the same thing, didn`t go on for months and months but he lied flat out, and everybody started searching for these missing babies and the

pregnant mom.

Lo and behold, four days later, the search stopped. But that is -- I mean, cut and dried I`ve ever seen lying case to investigators, lying to police.

By the way, let me just tell you right now, the Colorado has a charge and it is called false reporting to authorities.

Steve Moore is a former FBI agent and investigator. I think you know a thing or two about this. Let me just count the ways in which the money

could have racked up, all right? These are the agencies that were involved in searching for these kids and trying to investigate this case.

The Frederick Police Department, the FBI, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the State Patrol, the Firestone Police, the Dacono Police,

the Longmont Police, the Weld County Sheriff`s Office, the District Attorney`s Office.

That`s a pretty exhausted list of people whose man-hours started spending a lot of money because of lies. Do you see lies as being a viable part of

this case because you go to jail for that?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT AND INVESTIGATOR: Yeah. I had one case where we got the guy for a false report, and I think it was $640,000 that the

judge ordered him to pay.

[18:45:01] So that is a viable charge. Usually you use that as kind of your consolation prize. If you don`t get them for the major crime like with

Casey Anthony, you can at least get them with a criminal record and be paying something for what they`ve done.

BANFIELD: Yeah. I asked the D.A. about it today. They`re so tight lipped about it understandably but they said, we`re not going to talk about what

we`re considering or not considering, but you`ll know if it happens. And so they`re not tipping their hand in anyway there.

But real quickly, Ambrosio Rodriguez, I want to ask you, as a defense attorney and a former prosecutor, Jodi Arias` trial cost the taxpayers $3.4

million just for her defense. Just for her defence. If this is a death penalty case, what do you expect this could cost all of us in the Chris

Watts case?

AMBROSIO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It will be in the millions of dollars without a doubt. Death penalty cases -- you know, the critics of

death penalty cases bring up how much they cost. And it`s just a fact of the criminal justice system that if we are going to sentence someone to

death, the defense has a lot of expenses including psychological evaluations, investigators, some things to that nature.

Because the death penalty case is -- there`s two cases at once. First, the jury has to determine whether or not the defendant is guilty of first-

degree murder and whatever special circumstances involved.

And then they make a second consideration as to whether or not to punish him with death as opposed to life without the possibility of parole. And I

can see already from the aggressive stance that the public defender in the Watt`s case has already taken, that they are going to go all out. The

motions that they filed let me know that they are going to fight everything tooth and nail.

BANFIELD: And it`s going to cost a lot of money. I think we`re all aware of that.

RODRIGUEZ: A lot of money.

BANFIELD: There may be more charges. That cost money too. All right, thanks for that. Hold on for a second. You guys who are watching are so

incredible. I got a great Facebook question coming up after the break.

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some of the best questions in this case have come from you via Facebook. You`ve been asking us, we`re providing the answers. This one

comes from Carolyn Lozada (ph) via Twitter. She asked us, this case is exactly the same as the Peterson case yet that one was so open and upfront

with all information from start to finish. What is so different about this case?

Ambrosio Rodriguez, why are some murder cases so easy to cover, information forthcoming, parties talking, and some are buttoned up so tightly like this

one?

RODRIGUEZ: If we`re going to use the Peterson case as an example, it`s just the different parties involved. Obviously the Alameda County D.A.`s

Office handle things differently than they do in Colorado.

And Peterson was represented by Mark Geragos who has a very public persona as opposed to the public defender`s office. The information coming forward

or the lack of information coming forward doesn`t surprise me given how -- especially with the autopsy report, given it`s only been, what, five, six

weeks.

BANFIELD: Six.

RODRIGUEZ: Six. And it`s still not enough time to really kind of sound the alarms.

BANFIELD: Just shocking to us because typically we`re able to find sources all over the place that can tell us all sorts of stuff, not prejudicial

necessarily to juries or witnesses, but just something.

Real quickly, Dauna Kauffmann, I got 10 seconds left. I know you covered Peterson too. Do you find this astounding, that it`s so hard to find

information on this case compared to a Peterson or a Casey Anthony?

DAUNA KAUFFMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): They both took a long time to resolve. You had philandering liars. What I want to know is if

these girls were put into the vats still alive and that will be revealed to the coroner by whether they have oil in their lungs.

BANFIELD: God forbid. I don`t even want to think of that, as if this case weren`t awful enough, is it possible? Is it possible? But you`re right,

Dauna, that`s going to have to be answered by the autopsies themselves.

Four years ago, the cleanest man in comedy was accused of -- I mean, frankly just the unimaginable -- drugging and raping multiple women, dozens

of women. Today, he was finally sentenced for his crime. Dr. Heath Huxtable led away in handcuffs. Here where the man once known as America`s dad is

about to bed down for the night tonight.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: He was once known as America`s dad. Now, he`ll be known as a sexually violent predator. Bill Cosby, sentenced to between three and 10

years in prison today. And look at that mugshot. Look at the mood on his face.

All of this for drugging and assaulting Andrea Constand, a former college basketball player, and after more than four years of accusations from --

oh, I don`t know -- around 60 other women. The final nail is in the coffin for Cosby.

The comedian was taken from the courtroom in handcuffs this afternoon. Let me tell you, the silence was deafening. Look at that. He is going to spend

his first night of his sentence behind bars tonight. Denied bail.

[19:00:00] And at 81 years old and in poor health, that could mean Cosby, this inmate, might spend the rest of his life in prison.

The next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WATTS, SUSPECT IN MURDERING WIFE AND FAMILY: She wasn`t here. The kids weren`t here. Nobody was here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No movement in between those times of me dropping her off, Chris leaving and then me coming back.

BANFIELD: And first he said they were missing.

WATTS: I have no information of where she is.

BANFIELD: But then they turned up murdered. Now he`s saying his wife killed the kids.

WATTS: We had an emotional conversation. But I`ll leave it at that.

BANFIELD: But police say he killed them all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a monster.

BANFIELD: And he may have just left a trail of clues behind in the rush to get out of the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something is seriously wrong

BANFIELD: Tonight, new reports about the state of that home that became a crime scene.

WATTS: We got canine units, the sheriff`s department is going through the house trying to get a scent and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feel free to say if no if you want to.

WATTS: No, like you`re good. Just yes, go ahead.

BANFIELD: Plus, how did the Watts girls died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strangulation involves force that can increased the amount of skin cells.

BANFIELD: Someone has the answers, why aren`t they sharing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coroner`s office doesn`t have the report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s possible maybe they don`t want to have the answers out there.

BANFIELD: Why the dark details are staying secret for now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this unusual? Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Good evening Everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield and this is Crime & Justice. Tonight, the darker details of this case hang in what you could

call a paper purgatory. Court documents stuck between courts and the coroner and the actual forensic pathologist who got a look at the Watts`

girls corpses. We`re going to get to that in a moment. But first, we have exclusive new details tonight, from the people in Colorado who are perhaps

the most impacted by the case, the family members of Shanann Watts.

The family members haunted by these murders of Shanann and her babies. The family members who buried Shanann and those two daughters, just weeks ago

in North Carolina but tonight find themselves back in Frederick, Colorado, the same place where Chris Watts is accused of killing them. A source

close to the case telling me that not only Shanann`s mother Sandy Rzucek but also Shanann`s brother and best friend, Frankie Rzucek traveling back

from North Carolina back to Colorado, the scene of the crime.

It is so tragic when you think of what they`re going through every single day. After burying them and hoping for some peace in this case, instead

they are back in Colorado, this family. And not only that, they are back for specific reasons. They are back to quote, "take care of things."

What entails, not entirely sure. But I can tell you this. Several days both Sandy Rzucek and her son Frankie went back to Colorado. They were

seen checking into the Carbon Valley Recreational Center. Why that is unclear?

What that recreational center may offer them either respite or information, also unclear. Whether they met with law enforcement at this time, not

clear. But Steve Moore is a former FBI Agent and Investigator. Also a CNN Law Enforcement Analyst. Perhaps you can clear up why it might be that

this family now six weeks after the murder would be traveling back to Colorado, spending several days there, and doing something which I can say

a source close to the case has told me is taking care of things. What do you think that means?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, besides the normal -- normal process of possessions and things like that, there may -- the police

may want background on the husband, and certainly Shanann spoke to her family about him, and my guess is that they do -- they want to do a deep

debrief with the family on any and every single thing she said to them.

BANFIELD: So you think he`s -- you think that they may be going back there not just to take care of a few things, but also to speak again with police

officers or investigators there?

MOORE: I think so, and maybe prosecutors specifically, because the police have put together their case, and now the prosecutors have to go in court

and prove it. And so the prosecutors, you know, the investigators and prosecutors work at different paces at different times. And it`s very

possible that they want to meet with the family. Of course with the detectives, but they want to start building the entire case.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you something else, the source tells me that the -- that the Prosecutor`s Office has been in regular contact with Shanann`s

family back in North Carolina. And often the communications that come from the office to the family as opposed to the other way around, getting

questions answered, et cetera. But the communications from the prosecutors to this family are offering them hope. Actually suggesting the prosecutors

are going to get this guy, are going to find justice for this family. Does that sound out of the norm?

MOORE: No, because when you`re dealing with families of victims, you have to give them something. You can`t just say, this is -- we`re not -- we`re

not going to get anything done here. I believe that they have reason to tell them that. They have reason to believe they`re going to get justice

for them, as much justice as you can get, knowing they`re not going to bring the victims back.

But it is a very delicate and painful thing for both sides for the prosecutors to work with the victim`s families, because sometimes the

families want more from the prosecutors than they can give. And sometimes the prosecutors want more from the family than they have, so it`s very,

very difficult.

BANFIELD: So Steve, what do you make of this that they were checking in with some friends. In fact one of Shanann`s watts best friends, long time

best friends who also was in Colorado, Lauren Arnold, apparently with Shanann`s mother Sandy, and Shanann`s brother Frankie as well as Lauren

Arnold`s mother, Lorie Williamson Carter, all four of them checking in at this Carbon Valley Recreational Center.

Do you see that as anything potentially investigative? I mean recreational centers can be anything but they can also be places with a lot of workout

facilities and we all know that Chris Watts was doing a lot of working out.

MOORE: Yes. I don`t know if they would put the victim`s families in an area where evidence would be found. But the fact that they`re bringing

people that were confidants of Shanann is indicative of something to me. It tells me they are trying to find out what was in her mind in the months

previous to this, maybe in the years previous to this, maybe in the years previous to this. They`re going to try to build a case not just on the

facts in evidence, but they`re going to try and build it on a profile of how Chris degenerated to a point where he was willing to kill his family.

BANFIELD: Let`s be clear, the Carbon Valley Recreational Center is right in Frederick. It is in that in that small community where Shanann and her

children lived with Chris Watts, before being murdered. But we don`t know anything about it. I mean this could have been, like I said it could have

been respite.

It could have been them going for lunch. It could have them just going to get a quiet day. We really don`t know why these four were seen checking

into the Carbon Valley Recreational Center or what exactly the several days in Colorado are all about. But I want to bring in Pat Lalama, Crime

Journalist.

Pat, one of the very fascinating aspects of this case which we broke on this show last flight, and then surprise, surprise started seeing motions

flying around this morning, was that the prosecutor`s office had a deadline of today, to share the autopsies with the defense. The defense has been

barking mad about not having discovery shared with them, understandably, right? But he prosecutors didn`t have the autopsy.

They`re being ordered by the court to turn over the autopsies. But they don`t have the autopsies. So they filed a motion today telling the court,

you`re barking up the wrong tree with us. But I am fascinated about this, because it seems to me that the only people who are in possession of these

official reports are the people who did the forensic science. The people in the operating rooms, who actually witnessed these three bodies?

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Well, Ashleigh, it`s really, you know, not to take the side of the coroner`s office. Everybody wants to see these

details, but the prosecution is saying, at this point we don`t have everything. A lot of forensic evidence is yet to be completed, and when we

do dear defense team. We know the rules of the court.

And I have to tell you Ashleigh, I doubt that they`re going to mess with procedure. They`re not going to hold back something that they know the

defense -- the defense is entitled to have. I think we have to give it a little more time. I don`t see -- this is shenanigans. It`s the way the

game is played at this point.

BANFIELD: And I`ll tell you what. It`s not the first time we`ve witnessed this game.

LALAMA: Yes.

BANFIELD: So here`s a very, very unfortunate coincidence. And we are not casting aspersions at all.

LALAMA: Right.

BANFIELD: On this coroner but this particular coroner in this case was sued back in 2002 because very unfortunate for him, he took a job with the

coroner`s office in Jefferson County, Colorado. It`s not this county. But it was Jefferson County Colorado.

And lo and behold that was the county where the Columbine Massacre happened, and that was the county where Dylan Klebold`s body was being

housed and the autopsy was being performed. Dylan Klebold one of two mass murderers along with Eric Harris killing thoe children at Columbine. His

body and his autopsy was being withheld believe it or not.

LALAMA: Right.

BANDFIELD: And that coroner was sued for not releasing the full autopsy. But again it may be the same coroner we`re talking about now, but he wasn`t

the guy who did it. He joined the team later.

LALAMA: Right.

BANDFIELD: He just happened to be named in the suit, it is fascinating now to see that the Dylan Klebold autopsy was also withheld for a very long

time in that crime. Let me bring in Joseph Scott Morgan quickly here.

Joe, you are a certified death investigator. You teach this stuff for God`s sake. I mean if anyone knows it as professor of forensics at Jacksonville

State University. Not only that you`ve also participated, this is news to me. In about 10,000 autopsy, is that correct?

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, PROFESSOR FORENSICS, JACKSONVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes, yes, you`re absolutely correct. I worked in Atlanta and the coroner

in New Orleans.

BANDFIELD: So you would know the ins and outs of how this works. Can you help me to sort of navigate why the delay from the person actually

performing the autopsy, the medical examiner, the forensic pathologist, why that report has not been delivered in seven weeks, seven weeks. Now six

and half weeks or so, to the coroner`s office so the coroner, the elected guy can actually deliver it to prosecutors? What could be the holdup?

MORGAN: Yes. I`m not going to speak directly to the Watts case. But I will tell you based upon my experience some of the things that come into

play here are cooperation with the D.A. The D.A. has asked that this not be released at this point. Sometimes the police will ask for these sort of

thing, and sometimes if you have a staff of forensic pathologists, keep in mind these are highly technical people. They`re very bright, intelligent.

They go over jot and tattle (ph) if you will in these cases.

Sometimes they make decisions on mass. They try to come to a determination to help the primary forensic -- primary forensic pathologist, and sometimes

they don`t agree. I would think that, you know, we talked a lot about postmortem interval in this case. We don`t know how oil actually affects

bodies in a suspension like this.

So, they may be going back and forth on scientific details. Then of course, people think about for instance layers of buffering that take

place. You have the D.A. saying they don`t have it, the police saying they don`t have it. Then you have the coroner saying they don`t have it.

And keep in mind in this particular case, the M.E.`s they have are employed as consultants. You can actually see that on their county website. They

are not listed as direct employees but listed as consultants, Consultant Forensic Pathologists. So that adds another layer to this.

BANDFIELD: So let me bring in Donna Kauffmann, an Investigative Journalist. She`s also the author of Anne Rule presents Final Exams.

Donna, you have covered so many of these crime stories. And you covered the JonBenet Ramsey case. And it might be that our audience doesn`t remember

this one critical detail. But in that particular case as well, Jonbenet Ramsey`s autopsy was withheld from the public for how long?

DONNA KAUFFMANN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Eight Months.

BANFIELD: Eight months.

KAUFFMANN: And it was performed on December 27th. She died on the 25th or 26th in Boulder, Colorado. The 27th was the autopsy, it was very thorough.

They even brought in colposcope which is the camera that can take photos of her internal injuries and they sat on it. And because --

BANDFIELD: So tell me why? What was the reason ultimately because now so many years later I`m sure that that`s all had sunshine you know walked upon

it. What was the reason they held on for eight months to that autopsy?

KAUFFMANN: Well first, they released it without the genital findings. And we said hey you`re missing a few pages here. And then they released

the whole thing. They just wanted to get their ducks in a row while they were doing that, while we were all waiting.

And believe me this was an international case. People were going to -- people who worked in that office with buckets of cash and saying just give

me a copy of it. And they were refusing all offers of that nature. At the same time, the Boulder D.A. was meeting with other D.A.`s in the state, the

FBI, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, international, national help, three pediatric gynecologists, I mean, it was a world class team --

BANDFIELD: Did they also -- did the experts who did her autopsy also have disagreements about what ultimately killed her? We were trying to figure

out if she was killed by the ligature or whether she was killed by the blow to the head. Is that also a factor in why they held the public release of

Jonbenet`s autopsy for so long?

KAUFFMANN: And kept expanding their teams of experts to different opinions, what they -- the question, on the final exam, said asphyxia by

strangulation, associated with cranial cerebral trauma.

BANDFIELD: So both? Yes, they didn`t -- it doesn`t sound like they decided one or the other.

KAUFFMANN: That`s means the asphyxia -- the ligature happened first and the blow to the head which fractured her skull eight and half inches on one

side happened the second. And at the same time she had genital injuries.

BANDFIELD: Maybe -- maybe this is something we need to take into account. And again this is Colorado, right? Maybe this is what we have to take into

account. The fact that there could be disagreements about the -- or there could be other injuries or other potential realities in this case and other

than what Chris Watts allegedly has -- has confessed too.

One last quick questions and this one is to Steve Moore. As a former FBI Agent, an investigator, tell me this, like I can`t get this from the D.A.,

they are locked tight with the information. But do you think they already know? Do you think they`ve had something called the cold read as I learned

from you?

MOORE: Yes.

BANFIELD: They already know despite having those formal reports in their hands how these women and how these two girls and these women died?

MORGAN: The interaction between investigators and the medical examiner`s office is verbal. It`s on the phone. I mean I -- on my cases, I would be

in the autopsy. There would be nothing surprises to me, when the report came. And I would be in touch with them every day, have you gotten the

toxicology back? Have you gotten this back?

So yes, the police know within minutes of the medical examiner knowing, and they might -- there`re reasons and we can discuss that later but one of the

things you say, if you don`t want it out right away. They`ll say I`ll send you the report right now and, you say, you know, why don`t you go back and

double check everything, might take you a couple days, right? OK, go back and do that, and then send it to me. So there are ways to get this done.

BANDFIELD: A little bit of time. Makes sense to me. Yes, but I just can`t imagine that they have started investigating a case without knowing

the genesis of the case which is the cause of death before. I`ve seen cases go down on case of death. Steve hold your thoughts for a moment if

you will because Shanann and Chris Watts home presumably had the latest in home security technology. And how do we know this? Because of the

pictures on the outside of the house devices like this, a doorbell camera and a wireless smart lock.

Here`s a question, might Chris Watts have been watching very closely what was going on outside his home, monitoring his security remotely the day

Shanann and the girls were buried? And could investigators now themselves mind all of those electronics to potentially trip up his time line? And

trip up the things he said he did at certain times? Wait until you hear what else is monitored in that home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They also just seemed like a normal family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first heard about it, I thought, oh, my goodness, no.

SHANNAN WATTS: There`s a purpose, there`s a reason for everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the days and hours passed, neighbors are trying to stay hopeful.

BANDFIELD: The camera of the neighbor saw that truck pulling out.

CHRIS WATTS: Her flight got delayed from Arizona because of storms around the nation. She was supposed to get home at 11:00. She got home at like

1:48.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANDFIELD: Chris Watts was oddly specific. 1:48 a.m. Monday August 13th. That`s when he first told reporters that his wife had come home in a

business trip the morning she mysteriously went missing. But when Shanann`s body was found buried next to the oil tanks where he dumped their

daughters. Well Chris made some updates to his timeline, telling investigators, actually, his wife had killed the kids early that morning,

and that he in turn out of rage, had strangled her before driving off to hide all of those dead bodies.

Chris was allegedly caught on a neighbor`s security camera leaving at 5:30 in the morning. But that is not all that could have been captured on

Saratoga Trail that day because there may have been a few comings and goings that were registered in silence by all the home security systems

that the Watts family bought. Systems that could tell us now whether Chris watts time line is truth or lies and whether Chris Watts tried to keep

anyone else from discovering that his family had been murdered that day in that home.

I want to bring in a technology expert, Marc Saltzman. Marc, I couldn`t help but notice something curious in one of these prolific Facebook videos

that Shanann`s Watts` posted before she died. And I`m going to give a little background to you and our viewers as to what you`re going to see.

Shanann and Chris were dressed up as Santa and an elf and the whole idea was that Santa would come do the door, surprise the girls, ask them what

they wanted, and give them gifts.

Shanann was going to videotape the whole thing, actually broadcast it live, Facebook Live and then take still photos on Chris` phone. The only problem

was, Chris dressed up as Santa forgot his phone in the garage. So Shanann had walk through the house and open up the door to the garage at which

point we heard in crystal clear fashion what the security system in that house looked like and sounded like. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: I got to get the phone. This is hard. As one parent. The mom`s got to get pictures. Hold please. My husband`s a genius, doesn`t

listen. Oh it`s cold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Interior garage door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANDFIELD: Mark that couldn`t have been lost on you. She opened the door from the house to the garage, you heard it twice, interior garage door. Do

all of those door openings logged somewhere, and are they kept for posterity, is the length of time that door open also recorded?

MARC SALTZMAN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Yes, the answer is yes. And great investigative journalism by the way for noticing that audio bit. So yes,

when you use one of these smart garage door openers or even a front door smart lock. You can remotely lock and unlock the door and how long the door

was open for. So yes you could find out how long that garage door was open for.

So this is what the authorities are using along with other technology they had in the home like Amazon Alexa, a video baby monitor, smart phones to

build up that time line and see if it gels with Chris`s story

BANDFIELD: So let me ask you this if Chris Watts story is true, and I have a real tough time believing it, because it seems crazy. But let`s

give him the benefit of the doubt, if his story is true, and he woke up and had some emotional conversation with Shanann at 4:00 or 5:00, because he

told those two different stories to two different officers, and ultimately, all of those deaths happened, two of them he says at her hands and one of

them at his hands, and then he says he loaded those bodies into his car, which had been backed into the garage.

That`s caught on camera and then drove off. Presumably then, that door from the home to the garage would have to be open for a length of time

after 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., in order for him to drag three bodies and load them into his truck. That door would have to be open or several times in a

row open at 4:00 or 5:00 a.m so for instance if that`s not what happened and if Chris killed Shanann as she came home from her work trip at 2:a.m.

and loaded those bodies then, that would all be logged and the security company could be subpoenaed and those records could be looked, how many

times and at what time and for how long was that garage door to the house opened and closed.

SALTZMAN: Yes. That`s exactly right. I spoke to Vince (ph) today by the way. They`re the security company today that the Watts used for their

doorbell, the video doorbell and their garage door opener and other technologies. All on the same network by the way. It`s all on a separate

network. That`s not your regular router.

But yes, they said that if they saw the right court orders, if there was a search warrant. They would work with the authorities to hand over that

data.

It is encrypted though originally so that means it`s a direct communication between you as a homeowner and that technology. And you can call that up

any time you want. You could also choose to share that data, if he wanted to share the video footage or the garage door data to someone else, he

could as well.

BANDFIELD: It`s been six weeks now Marc. How long do these files stay in the cloud or registered at home office? I mean, six weeks is starting to

get a little long, if they haven`t already grabbed that information. Do they have a chance still?

SALTZMAN: Yes. That`s a great point. I know it`s about 15 days and that`s the default setting. You could pay to extend that to access that in the

cloud which is online, and from any device anywhere. But I would suspect that if it would have that data somewhere, on the backend, should the

authorities request it, that`s just a hunch.

BANFIELD: Interesting. You think that they may have -- even though you may not have paid for the longer storage, they may still have it? And if

police come calling --

SALTZMAN: Probably not the video footage, but at least the data of the garage door opener use.

BANFIELD: But the data.

SALTZMAN: Yes, that`s right. And by the way --

BANFIELD: And the data is -- it`s all about the data, Mark, because when you`re looking at a timeline like Chris Watts had crafted, after he crafted

the lies on the front porch, if he crafted a big old lie about what happened in that house that night, at least the data of that door opening

up, to load bodies into the truck, may prove him right or wrong. Let me ask you one other thing, I don`t know, can our producers find this picture

that really just got me in the throat. It`s Bella and Cece at the front door, and they`re standing directly beneath that smart doorbell. The

doorbell cam and the smart lock. Do you see the lock right above the handle? There they are in joyous times, but right above them, zero in on

that little keypad. That smart lock can have separate codes.

So, for instance, if I come home, I can put in my code, and if my husband comes home, he can put in his code, and if our, you know, a mother-in-law

comes in and she`s got a code or a friend has a code, all of those codes can open up that door. And lo and behold, Mark, I just found out that a

notification can be sent to the homeowner, so and so is at your front door and just open the door.

Because guess what happened the day that these -- this family went missing. Nicole Atkinson, Shanann`s friend came over and was able to open that door

only to find it latched from the inside. Is it possible that Chris Watts got a notification, saying Nicole just opened your door at your house? You

know, the place where all that mayhem happened last night. I`m just wondering if he got that information before the police called them to say,

Sir, you need to come home and give us your keypad, which you said didn`t work. You need to come home and open this door. He said, I`ll be there in

five minutes. Did he have -- was he wise to that beforehand?

SALTZMAN: I don`t know the details of that part of the case, but technically speaking, yes, she could be on the list of people who are

allowed to use a code, and presumably, it would be a different code than the family members, that`s always, you know, recommended. And that`s

called an e-key, by the way. That`s like your friend saying, I`m nearby, can I use your bathroom, for example. So, you send them a temporary key

that lets them in through their phone, and that`s that, and you will be notified. There`s one other thing to be aware of, Ashleigh, and that`s the

neighborhood watch element to all of this, Vivint has an optional app called (INAUDIBLE) that lets you communally share video footage from all

those video doorbells and other cameras through the Vivint system and share it collectively with your consent. It`s an opt-in feature that could also

show if this friend showed up at the door at that time, presumably.

BANFIELD: Super fascinating, because up until now, I have thought that Chris Watts was wise to Nicole Atkinson, because police have called and

then he saw her on the doorbell cam. But who knows if he knew she was there because a signal electronically went to him saying Nicole Atkinson`s

key pass -- her code was just used to get into your house. And lo and behold, he knew he was in trouble and needed to make a move. Very quickly,

god forbid, what might have happened to her, who knows? Honest to god, who knows? Because if he is guilty of killing his wife and his babies? Would

it have been such a big deal to wipe out another witness? It just -- it gives me the chills to think of it, it gives me the chills to see those

little girls standing beneath the smart lock.

Just one other note to our audience before we go to break, there is something called a one-touch emergency panel that they may very well have

had because it`s part of the Vivint smart home package. And it allows you to just go beep, emergency, help me, like I just watched my wife kill my

kids. Beep, emergency, help me. One touch and 911 is called. One touch as opposed to finding your phone in the heat of craziness, and dialing 911

and try to yell into the phone what`s happening. No, all it would take for Chris Watts if he saw what he saw, and was as appalled as he says he was,

the murder of his daughters right before his face -- one touch could have called 911. Didn`t happen.

And then when Chris Watts stood in the front of his house with all those cameras when Shanann and the girls had just disappeared, you know, we all

had a feeling he might be lying. He sure seemed like he was lying. But in looking over the charges that he`s now facing, all nine of them felonies,

he might be missing some charges. Because he swore up and down to us, the public and to the police, that they were missing, those people were

missing. And we all know that was a lie. And we all know that`s illegal. You can go to jail for it. So, will that charge be added to his case?

That`s next.

[19:35:06] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time your client goes on video and says something like that, and the evidence totally contradicts it.

CHRIS WATTS, MURDER SUSPECT: I don`t know where my kids are, I don`t know where Shanann is.

BANFIELD: He lied to all of us. Why are we to suspect for a moment he`s not going to lie to the police?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believed him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did. And we feel so stupid about that now.

C. WATTS: If somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He`s charged with five counts of first-degree murder and three counts of tampering with evidence, and one for unlawfully terminating a

pregnancy. But could Chris Watts wind up facing even more charges? Because whether or not he killed his family, by his own alleged admission,

he has already done something very illegal, and punishable by jail, and that is, he lied. Not just to us, he lied to the police. He told them his

wife and daughters were missing hours after he supposedly dumped their dead bodies at his worksite. And if he`s lying about Shanann being the one who

killed the kids, who knows what other charges could be added to that pile. Pat Lalama joins me now. And Pat, when we were thinking through this, we

couldn`t help but harken back to a famous case, a murder case, where the defendant skated on the murder, but could not skate on the lying. And if I

need to remind our viewers who that famous defendant was, it was none other than Ms. Casey Anthony. Let`s roll the tape --

PAT LALAMA: Right.

BANFIELD: -- to remind ourselves of her exquisite lying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here because? We got her how? To do what?

CASEY ANTHONY, CONVICTED MURDERER: Because I lied, because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for another avenue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, stop right there, I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.

ANTHONY: It`s not going to. I dropped her off at that apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. With?

ANTHONY: At those stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you just walked her -- you dropped her off and --

ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I dropped her off a bunch of other times, besides just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then -- OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

ANTHONY: Zani did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else did you talk to about this besides Jeffrey? You said you tried to call Zenaida`s mom. You talk to Jeffrey. Who else

did you talk to?

ANTHONY: I talked to Juliette Lewis. She was one of my co-workers at Universal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually talk with -- what day was it you talked to her?

ANTHONY: Yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember what time of day?

ANTHONY: Around noon. It was from a private number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What`d she tell you? What`d your daughter say to you?

ANTHONY: She said, hi mommy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: No, she didn`t. She just lied. She lied in every one of those instances, and it landed her four convictions, didn`t it?

LALAMA: Well, she did get four years in jail but time served, so once again, essentially she skated. What really strikes me as so fascinating,

Ashleigh, is the way she lies with reckless abandon, as if she really believes the stories that she`s telling, or she loves this cat and mouse

game, she gets the attention of messing with the minds of law enforcement. In the case of Mr. Watts, perhaps obstruction of justice, perhaps filing a

false police report, who knows? But he lied and he`s probably not going to stop.

BANFIELD: He had to pay, too, for those lies, didn`t she? Because it cost a lot of money to investigate Caylee`s disappearance. Do you remember

those numbers?

LALAMA: I do not remember those numbers.

BANFIELD: Hey, look here, hold on a second. Ultimately --

LALAMA: Yes, I have it.

BANFIELD: Yes, ultimately, she`s ordered to pay more than $217,000 for investigating --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Look at that, look at these -- now, she could have been really been walloped because what the prosecutors asked for was a half million,

$516,000 for all the work they had to do, and the months and months they searched for that little baby because she lied, but ultimately order --

LALAMA: How much do you think she`s paid, Ashleigh? How much do you think she`s paid of that?

BANFIELD: I`m not so sure. A dime. I really don`t think a dime. A lot of money issues with that young lady. But it just stands to reason that

this guy did the same thing, didn`t go on for months and months, but he lied flat out, and everybody started searching for these, you know, missing

babies and the pregnant mom, lo and behold four days later, the search stopped. But that is -- I mean, cut and dry, if I`ve ever seen a lying

case -- to investigators, lying to police -- by the way, let me just tell you right now that Colorado has a charge and it is called false reporting

to authorities.

Steve Moore, as a former FBI agent and investigator, I think you know a thing or two about this. Let me count the ways in which the money could

have racked up, all right? These are the agencies that were involved in searching for these kids and trying to investigate this case: The Frederick

Police Department, the FBI, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the State Patrol, the Firestone Police, the Dacono Police, the Longmont Police, the

Weld County Sheriff`s Office, the District Attorney`s Office. That`s a pretty exhaustive list of people whose man-hours started spending a lot of

money because of his lies. Do you see lies as being a viable part of this case? Because you could go to jail for that.

[19:44:52] STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, yes. Yes, I had one case where we got the guy for a false report, and I think it was

$640,000 that the judge ordered him to pay. So, that is a viable charge. Usually, you use that as kind of your consolation prize. If you don`t get

them for the major crime like with Casey Anthony, you can at least get them with a criminal record and be paying something for what they`ve done. But

--

BANFIELD: Yes, I asked -- I asked the D.A. about it today, and they`re so tight-lipped about it, understandably, but they said, we`re not going to

talk about what we`re considering or not considering, but you`ll know if it happens. You know, and so, they`re not tipping their hand in any way

there.

But real quickly, Ambrosio Rodriguez, I want to ask you, as a defense attorney and as a former prosecutor, Jodi Arias` trial cost the taxpayers

$3.4 million just for her defense, just for her defense. If this is a death penalty case, what do you expect this could cost all of us in the

Chris Watts case?

AMBROSIO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it will be in the millions of dollars without a doubt. Death penalty cases (INAUDIBLE) you know, the

critics of death penalty cases bring up how much they cost. And it`s just a fact of the criminal justice system that if we are going to sentence

someone to death, the defense has a lot of expenses, including psychological evaluations, investigators, and things of that nature,

because a death penalty case is -- there`s two cases at once.

First, the jury has to determine whether or not the defendant is guilty of first-degree murder and whatever special circumstances it involved. And

then they make a second consideration as to whether or not to punish him with death as opposed to life without the possibility of parole. And I can

see already from the aggressive stance that the public defender in the Watts case has already taken that they were going to go all out. The

motions that they filed lets me know that they`re going to fight everything tooth and nail.

BANFIELD: And it`s going to cost a lot of money. I think we`re all aware of that.

RODRIGUEZ: A lot of money.

BANFIELD: And there may be more charges, you know, and that costs money, too. All right. Thanks for that. Hold on for a second. You guys who are

watching are so incredible. I have a great Facebook question coming up after the break.

[19:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some of the best questions in this case have come from you via Facebook. You`ve been asking us, we`re providing the answers. This one

comes from Caroline Lozada via Twitter. She asked us, "This case is exactly the same as the Peterson case. Yet, that one was so open and up

front with all information from start to finish. What is so different about this case?" Ambrosio Rodriguez, why are some murder cases so easy to

cover, information forthcoming, parties talking, and some are buttoned up so tightly like this one?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, look, if we`re going to use the Peterson case as an example, it`s just the different parties involved. Obviously, the Alameda

County D.A.`s office handle things different than they do in Colorado. And Peterson was represented by Mark Geragos, who has a very public persona, as

opposed to the public defender`s office. The information coming forward, or the lack of information coming forward, doesn`t surprise me, given how -

- especially with the autopsy report, given it`s only been, what, five, six weeks.

BANFIELD: Six.

RODRIGUEZ: And something -- six. And it`s still -- it`s still not enough time to really kind of sound the alarms.

BANFIELD: It`s just shocking to us because typically, we`re able to find sources all over the place who can tell us all sorts of stuff, not

prejudicial necessarily to juries or witnesses but something. Real quickly, Dauna Kauffman, I got 10 seconds left. I know you covered

Peterson, too. Do you find this astounding that we`re -- it`s so hard to find information on this case compared to a Peterson or a Casey Anthony?

DAUNA KAUFFMAN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, they were both -- they both took a long time to resolve, and you had slandering liars. What I

want to know is if these girls were put into the vats still alive, and that will be revealed to the coroner by whether they have oil in their lungs.

BANFIELD: God forbid. I don`t even want to think of that, as if this case weren`t awful enough, is it possible, is it possible? But you`re right,

Dauna, that`s going to have to be answered by the autopsies themselves.

Four years ago, the cleanest man in comedy was accused of -- I mean, frankly, just the unimaginable -- drugging and raping multiple women,

dozens of women. Today, he was finally sentenced for his crime. Dr. Heath Huxtable led away in handcuffs. Here where the man once known as America`s

Dad, is about to bed down for the night tonight.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: He was once known as America`s Dad, but now he`ll be known as a sexually violent predator. Bill Cosby sentenced to between three and 10

years in prison today, and look at that mugshot. Look at the mood on his face. All of this for drugging and assaulting Andrea Constand, a former

college basketball player. And after more than four years of accusations from, oh, I don`t know, around 60 other women, the final nail is in the

coffin for Cosby. That comedian was taken from the courtroom in handcuffs this afternoon. And let me tell you, the silence was deafening. Look at

that. He is going to spend his first night of his sentence behind bars tonight, denied bail. And at 81 years old and in poor health, that could

mean Cosby, this inmate, might spend the rest of his life in prison. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern. Thanks for watching.

"FORENSIC FILES" begins now.

END