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Aid Helicopter Crashes in Dominican Republic; Doctor Suspected in Jackson Death to Surrender?

Aired February 05, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here is what is happening on your national conversation.

Get ready to be snowed in along the East Coast. Can you say blizzard? Chad Myers on the LIST and all over it.

Jobs, jobs, jobs.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These numbers are a cause for hope, but not celebration.

SANCHEZ: Does this number prove more people are finding them? And, by the way, what does God have to do with Wall Street, Main Street and your street? Pastor and author Jim Wallis joins me live.

TIM TEBOW, FOOTBALL PLAYER: It was surreal. It was overwhelming. You know, it's something that you dream about as a kid.

SANCHEZ: America's college football sweetheart turns spokesman for family values.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hold up Bono as a great example of someone who stands up passionately for what he believes and I think we should send the same applause for Tim Tebow.

SANCHEZ: Tebow and mom in an advocacy ad generating lots of heat.

CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: And that is OK.

SANCHEZ: And, hey, Charlie Sheen, it is going to take you more than two-and-a-half men to get your stolen car out of this mess.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing person? Who's on list you don't want to be on? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air continues.

The lists you need to know about. Who is today's most intriguing person? Who is on the list you don't want to be on? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Here is what is making the list right now during our national conversation.

We are going to begin with breaking news. All right, CNN has confirmed now that two Americans who were involved in relief efforts in Haiti were killed yesterday in a helicopter crash. This is in the Dominican Republic. This is all the continuing effort to try and save lives in Haiti. It is a U.S.-owned helicopter, we understand.

It was either flying to or from Haiti when it crashed into the mountain last night in western Dominican Republic. The Dominican Civil Aviation Institute says that the victims are pilot John Ward and co-pilot James Jalove. Obviously, CNN is going to continue to follow this story. As we get more information, we are going to sharing it with you throughout the hour.

Now to bring you up to date on another story that we're following having to do with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray, Dr. Conrad Murray. This story has gone around and around over the last 48 hours. Those of you who have been following it heard preliminary reports that this doctor was going to surrender, that he was going to turn himself.

It appears there has been a problem with that plan. We have also been hearing now that the doctors' attorneys are going to hold a news conference this afternoon. They are not at all satisfied with the way these negotiations have gone with the district attorney's office and plans for them to turn themselves in.

Folks, this is getting weird and we are trying to get a better handle on it.

I'll tell you what. Let's go the Ted Rowlands. He is standing by right now in L.A. to bring us up to date on what the developments in this story.

And I can see it is raining there as well, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (AUDIO GAP) ... charges in this case, but it won't be today. It will be on Monday. Of course, everybody expected that something was going to happen at some point this week.

Conrad Murray was brought from Houston to Los Angeles. His lawyers came with him. They have been negotiating a surrender deal. It was all set to happen today and something happened between the three parties and we're talking about the district attorney's office, the LAPD, because they do have a voice here, and Murray's attorneys.

So, this morning, we wake up and find out from Murray's attorneys that even if they don't file charges, we are going to show up at the courthouse and turn ourselves in. And if you are not going to take our doctor, well, we're going to talk to the media and express our frustrations. Sheriffs here said you're doing it at this courthouse. So as it stands right now, this horde of media that has gathered outside the courthouse is slowly starting to disassemble and go to a nearby city park in the rain to get the latest from Dr. Conrad Murray's legal team. They are scheduled to address the media in about an hour-and-a- half and we will see what they say, if they say anything, because this has been changing literally by the minute.

One definitive thing we can say now, though, is that the district attorney will file charges in the Jackson case on Monday. And we're assuming they will be charges against Conrad Murray.

SANCHEZ: Well, just to be clear, when you look at things like this, Ted, you have one party coming in and say, look, I am willing to cut a deal. I'm willing to admit to something and you have the other side, the prosecutors or the police, saying, no, this is what we want you to admit to. It sounds like these negotiations somehow just got torn asunder, right?

ROWLANDS: Yes. And it is not just -- it's about admitting anything. It is more about how were they going to handle it. Dr. Conrad Murray's legal team very astutely did not want or they wanted to avoid at all costs that image of their client in handcuffs with police officers around him, because this is such a high-profile trial. They know that it will be played over and over and over again.

So, they thought they came up with a plan and a deal to make that happen, where he would still surrender himself, do it at a courthouse, though, and avoid that shot. And it appears that that may have had something to do with this.

Someone wants that enduring image.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

ROWLANDS: And we will see what actually happens Monday. I would bet on we are going to see Mr. Murray or Dr. Murray in handcuffs I think the way things have gone, because they have obviously gone downhill.

SANCHEZ: Well, yes. But it is just a matter of when and how and under what conditions and exactly what the deal is.

Thanks, Ted, so much for bringing us up to date on that. Again, you heard what he said, folks, that this thing is going to happen during the next -- well, during our show. When it does, you will see it live, the lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray essentially with a whole big group of people around him explaining their side of the story, in defiance of what perhaps the DA and the police officers are doing.

Well, lot of defiance in the Eastern part of the United States as well. That is where the weather has been just remarkable today. And I understand it is going to get worse.

Let's go right out to -- Reynolds Wolf is standing by right now. You've been seeing some of the shots coming in from the Eastern Seaboard. That's Washington, D.C. Expect a lot of snowfall there.

Reynolds, can you hear me? What have you got?

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Rick, what I have got for you is, well, imagine if you could just Washington, D.C., without the -- well, the Monument. There it is. This is the Mall.

And if you look off in the distance, you can't see anything except all white coming down. You might be able to make out a very faint silhouette of the Washington Monument, but as the snow continues to come down, it is going to be harder and harder to see.

Something else you can see definitely, if you look over here, you can still make out the Capitol Dome. And something that we may all experience in this part of the world later on is possibly several feet of snowfall here in the nation's capital.

SANCHEZ: Several feet?

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF: Now, I can tell you that just over the past hour or so -- yes, we could see several feet. It's definitely a possibility. We could get up to 24 inches of snowfall, some places a little bit more, other places a little bit less, truly a historic storm, Rick.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, let me share with some of the information that I just got. I was just making a note of what I was hearing here, because the impact of this is going to be pretty severe.

Listen to this, folks. Obviously, we know that driving is going to be very difficult, as we look at some of the first pictures coming in now from this blizzard that we have been following.

Delta Air Lines, 200 flights canceled. United Airlines, 375 flights canceled. American Airlines, 148 flights canceled. That pretty much tells the story, doesn't it, about how serious this is going to be in that region.

WOLF: Oh, it really, truly does.

And you have to think about the cumulative effect this is going to have on other airports. You know, whenever you are going to have backups here, you are going to have backups in New York. When you have backups there, you are going to have backups in Atlanta.

So, it will eventually affect millions of people. There's no question about it, roadways certainly going to be affected, metro travel. As soon as the snow, Rick, piles up to around eight inches or so, that center rail that you have on a lot of the mass transit here, especially the trains, that is all going to be shut down, the stuff that's above ground.

Now, below ground, it's still OK. But we have had a lot of trucks out here. They have put that saline stuff on the street, that brine solution, which is great. Then they have had the salt trucks out. They have also had some of the snowplows ready.

But, still, when you have snow coming down at a heavy rate, it is not going to matter what you put on the ground first. When it comes down, it is going to pile up. That is inevitable. So we are going to see more issues on the roadway.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

WOLF: Two fatalities already in Virginia. Unfortunately, we are probably going to see that increase a bit more, people trying to head home. They're not really -- when you happen to be in a hurry, you are not quite as careful. It is a Friday. And, unfortunately, we may see that number pop up a bit.

SANCHEZ: It may be a good day to just stay off the roads if you possibly can.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

SANCHEZ: All right, we're also going to cover this for you. Take a look at this. All right. That is the doctor. He, according to police, gave Michael Jackson the drugs that killed him, right?

He has not, not surrendered, not surrendered. What is going on here? I mean, 48 hours, if not 72, we were told he would. He has not. Now he is going to hold a news conference with his lawyers in just a little bit. And we are going to covering that here live. This thing is getting ugly.

Also, we're going to be showing you some video that has never been seen before of the day The challenger blew up recorded by a man who wanted to no one to ever see this video until he died. Well, he died. We are going to show you that video in a little bit.

And, by the way, let's show you the pictures once again. We were showing you the White House a little while ago and different parts of Washington, D.C. That is what it looks like. The blizzard is coming. We will cover it for you. Good day to be watching television, and not running around outside or driving. And as far as flying, almost 1,000 flights are going to end up canceled by the time we are done with it.

So, stay with us, folks. We're going to be right back. This is the LIST. We are scrolling on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: Hey, Rick. This is Dave from Tennessee.

My feelings on the 10 missionaries held in Haiti is that we should pull all U.S. support out of Haiti until they are released. I'm sorry. I just feel like we are being fools to be helping them out when they are doing this to people that were trying to do good. Thanks, Rick.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right.

Speaking of Haiti, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is the world headquarters of CNN.

Several developing stories that we are following for you right now.

First of all, this story I mentioned to you at the top of the newscast, we are learning about a fatal helicopter crash. Now, interestingly enough, we didn't know about it. And it happened last night in the Dominican Republic. CNN has now confirmed that two Americans were killed on that helicopter crash. The small U.S.-owned helicopter was involved in aid efforts in Haiti and crashed into a mountain in western Dominican Republic.

It is that mountainous region we have told you about in the past when we have covered hurricanes in that area. The two Americans aboard were killed. The Dominican Civil Aviation Institute identifies them as pilot John Ward and co-pilot James Jalove.

Dominican firefighters are on the scene. They have said that one of the victims was dressed as a doctor. CNN is going to continue to pursue this story and as we get more information, we are going to sharing with it you.

Obviously, our prayers go out to their families, two men who were obviously trying to do some good for other people and they ended up losing their lives.

Meanwhile, there's more news coming out of Haiti. Former President Bill Clinton is back in Haiti. Here are some pictures we can share with you now. We are waiting to hear from him live in Port- au-Prince. That could happen very soon, by the way. We Gates bring it to you as soon as it does. In fact, we plan to let you actually hear what he has to say.

Here is the question. Here is the question. The question is whether he is going to get involved directly in the case of these 10 missionaries that are jailed in Haiti for allegedly trafficking children. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was asked about this. And if you listen to her here -- and I want you to decide for yourself -- it sounds like she is suggesting that he is not going to get involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Obviously, this is a matter for the Haitian judicial system. We are going to continue to provide support, as we do in every instance like this, to American citizens who have been charged, and hope that this matter can be resolved in an expeditious way.

But it is something that a sovereign nation is pursuing based on the evidence that it presented when the charges were announced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: By the way, we are going to be all over this story throughout this newscast, all different angles of the story, including the question about, well, do you follow God's law or do you follow man's law? Because, obviously, these people, these 10 missionaries were following God's law. But, in the process, did they violate man's law?

It is an interesting, interesting question that I really want to get into with some folks who know a lot about this and have written about it.

By the way, I got a new number to share with you. Are you ready for this? Haitian officials are now saying that the earthquake killed 212,000 people. Remember when we first got those reports? We were here during this show. And we mentioned that it -- the foreign minister had suggested it might be 200,000 people. And myself just everyone -- just about everyone else said, no, it can't be. He must be exaggerating.

Well, it is now confirmed that 212,000 people have been killed by this earthquake -- 300,000 more have been injured by this earthquake. Former President Clinton is a U.N. special envoy to Haiti. He is in charge of aid and reconstruction. Let's remember, that is going to be his focus moving forward. And when we hear from him in the next half- hour or so to see what he is doing about these 10 missionaries, you will hear it and see it live right here on CNN.

Meanwhile, next hour, a 16-year-old girl buried in quake rubble for 15 days is going to be moved to a hospital in Port-au-Prince. Darlene Etienne had been getting treatment aboard a French hospital ship since her rescue.

And we are going to bring you the very latest on yet another story that we are following now. I told you moments ago that, in L.A., we may be seeing a news conference from Dr. Conrad Murray, who police say is the doctor who gave the final dosage of drugs that killed Michael Jackson. He was supposed to surrender. He didn't.

Apparently, there is a problem between prosecutors and police and his attorneys. We are not sure exactly what it is. I'm going to let you know by talking to one of the reporters who broke this story. She's going to be joining me in just a little bit. And she might be able to make some news for us on that topic.

Also, I'm going to be taking you to my hometown, that is right, where I grew up, to introduce you to a few of my best friends. They're they are. Unique is certainly an understatement for what you see in South Florida.

But, before we go to break, let me take you to Washington, D.C., once again, new pictures that we will continue to share with you. Hopefully, we will get some other shots coming in from other cities around the United States, because it is not just Washington being affected by this, folks, not by a long shot. We are on it.

This is the LIST. And we will be right back.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: Hey, Rick. This is Constance from North Carolina.

The people that are charged in Haiti knew better. You can't just walk in somebody else's country and take children.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Let me tell you a story. A man in Florida comes out of his house, stands in his driveway, and decides that he's going to get pictures of the Challenger on the day that it is going up.

Well, as you know, seven astronauts died. And the Challenger blew up. He never wanted anybody to see this video, because he was so affected by it. So, he gave it to someone to hold and said don't ever let anyone see this, don't ever release this until the day I die.

He died. Here is the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There it goes. I see it in between the trees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there it goes. It is coming right up over the top of the trees, isn't it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh. It will be right over the top of those trees. I saw it.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It takes a little while.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There she goes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I saw it. There it goes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is brighter than usual.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, that is it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right over those trees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw it when it went through that hole.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't remember it being that bright and that big.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that part? That must have been one of the boosters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, look, there's two. It's going to off into two...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, is that trouble or not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not having trouble, are they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I ain't never seen anything like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's trouble of some kind, George.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is trouble of some kind, isn't it, or not?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There it goes again. I think I will go in and listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It exploded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What it said just now (AUDIO GAP) confirmation of it. (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (OFF-MIKE) exploded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Said it exploded. Well, boy, I know it didn't look right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: History being made, experienced by one man and his camera, one family at the time it happened. The rest is the history we know. Seven astronauts were killed.

We are also going to be following this story, all right? Dr. Conrad Murray.

All right. We're -- I keep telling you about this, because we expect that this thing could be happening during our newscast. Dr. Conrad Murray's attorneys are going to go before the cameras and say something. We don't know exactly what it is they're going to say, but, obviously, they are not satisfied with the way that these negotiations have gone with police and the DAs.

Have the DAs overreached? Were they not able to reach some kind of compromise on how he would turn himself in or what he would be willing to cop to? We don't know. We are going to hopefully be able to find out in just a little bit. Stay right here.

We are also going to have one of the reporters who broke this story last night.

And then a man that we are about to reveal considered by many a saint, yet this weekend he is going to have to choose between the town that he calls his home and his son. This one is kind of obvious, right? Most intriguing. Remember, we do this for you every day.

And then, as we go to the break, I want to show you one more picture. What do we got here? New York City. New York City is getting ready to probably get some snow overnight or over the weekend. We are going to be following that as well for you, the blizzard that is to come, as recorded by CNN's cameras.

Stay with us. The LIST continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Time for most intriguing.

See if you can figure out who it is that we are talking about. He was the college quarterback who married the homecoming queen and started a football dynasty. As an NFL quarterback, he never had a single winning season. But his little boys he named Eli and Peyton, they certainly did.

One of today's most intriguing is Archie Manning. Played for the Saints, but his son plays for the Colts. Who is he pulling for? The Colts, his son. Former New Orleans Saints quarterback Archie Manning one of today's most intriguing.

All right. Let me tell you once again what is going on. You see that right there? That is snow, folks, a lot of snow. I just heard Chad Myers say a little while ago, in some places, they are going to get more than a couple of feet. Did I hear him right? In some places, they might get more than a couple of feet?

Now, obviously, these are predictions at this point, but all along the Eastern Seaboard, there is going to be a lot of snow. We are going to have reporters who are going to be talking about this.

So, stay with us. We're going to be all over this, as well as several other stories. We will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I want to take you to my hometown and show you the place where I used to jog. Beautiful scenery and well paved paths, and giant reptiles. Let's do "Fotos."

This is Shark Valley. It's about 45 minutes from where I grew up in Miami. People come from all over the world to check out the alligators, lots and lots of alligators. They ride their bikes and take pictures up close, the tourists do. Hopefully we will see some of them here.

They gawk. Notice there are no bars between the gators and the people on that path I told you about that I used to jog? Yep, there are the gators. If you feed them or taunt them though, you will be thrown behind bars.

To California now, police showed up at the actor Charlie Sheen's house, and for once they were not coming for him. The actor's car was found at the bottom of a cliff. His representative released a bizarre statement saying that the reports are "accurate enough." Accurate enough?

Brazil -- when you are on live TV anything can happen, like, this. One minute this football commentator is -- what? The next thing, he falls down. I guess that television not for the faint of heart. You could see, watch his eyes. Whoa, bye-bye. Don't worry, he is OK. He says that the heat got to him.

Imagine the idea of routinely using a powerful IV drug at your home just so you can get to sleep. It is weird. We are talking about propofol and Michael Jackson. He was on serious medication when he died. Elizabeth Cohen will join us along Will Beth Karas, our in session lawyer who's breaking all the news regarding Dr. Conrad Murray.

In fact, we just got an update on the Conrad Murray press conference. We will tell you what happened. Stay with us. We are coming right back to that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, this Michael Jackson story seems to be moving once again. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN. I am going to be joined in just a moment by our own senior medical correspondent Dr. Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining us.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: This Dr. Conrad Murray story is just flipping all over the place now. I think we're able to go to Beth Karas. Beth Karas is with TruTV, "In Session," our sister network, and she hopefully will be able to give us some information of what is going on in the story.

Here is what confuses me. When I was ready to go the sleep last night, I understood that the guy was going to turn himself in. And then suddenly I am discovering he is not going to surrender, there is no deal, and, in fact, the whole thing seems to have a major fly in the ointment. What's going on? What happened, Beth?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, I think you have a pretty good handle on it. He was supposed to surrender today, things did fall apart yesterday. The D.A. holds all of the cards in the case at this point because a complaint has not been filed.

They were working out basically the terms of surrender, and there were not really many terms. They were concerned about how he would surrender, where he would surrender to the LAPD and get brought safely to the courthouse. This was a paramount concern of the police.

Things did fell apart for some reason. He cannot be processed without a complaint being filed. So by the time they went to bed in California last night, everybody had come to a stop.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me tell you what we heard just a little while ago from one of our correspondents following the story out in L.A. He said that the attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray seemed to indicate that he was fed up and that he was tired of dealing with both the police and the D.A. It sounds like those two agencies maybe were not on the same page.

It sounds like this guy is mad about something. Do we know what he is mad about?

KARAS: Well, it's not clear exactly what happened behind closed doors, but I can tell you that the two agents, LAPD and D.A.'s office do not have a problem. They worked everything out. And Dr. Murray was not caught between some warfare between those two departments. That is not true. He may be saying that, but it is not true.

SANCHEZ: Is it possible that one of the two, either the prosecutors or the police, are just overreaching here, because it is such a public case, they want the look like heroes, and they are asking the guy to do something that the lawyer does not want him to do?

KARAS: Well, the LAPD chief Charlie Beck did go public in Los Angeles to a local station earlier today and denied that this was all about police wanting sirens and handcuffs and a perp walk and all that stuff. Not true. They want him safely brought to the courthouse. That's going to happen at some point on Monday.

SANCHEZ: Listen, thanks so much, Beth. We appreciate the information.

Let me bring Elizabeth Cohen into this conversation. I don't think we can underestimate what we are talking about here. And it's easy for people at home to think, well, you know, this guy may have given him some pills and Michael took too many pills. No. This is serious stuff we are talking about. This is unique, weird stuff. COHEN: This is really unique. One doctor described it to me as beyond the pale. This is propofol, which is supposed to be used to anesthetize someone for surgery. And the allegations here are that Dr. Murray used it to go to sleep every single night.

Imagine having anesthesia every single night to go to sleep.

SANCHEZ: That's crazy.

COHEN: It is not supposed to be used for that. That is extremely clear. You don't hear about that. You hear about Ambien abuse or valium or something like that, but that is not what this is.

SANCHEZ: In fact, it's IV, right?

COHEN: Right.

SANCHEZ: You have to literally get it into someone's vein, sit there, stay on top of him, watch him for hours on end, watch while he sleeps, right? That is what they do in the hospital.

COHEN: Right, you are supposed to do it in a hospital. You are not supposed to try this at home. They are very, very clear this is to be done in a hospital where there are monitors on you to make sure that you keep breathing. Maybe if there had been a monitor on him at home he might be alive today.

SANCHEZ: So just to be sure, this is not something that people do. I mean, oh, yes, I'm going to -- this is bizarre.

COHEN: This is bizarre. I asked a lot of doctors, doctors who know about drug abuse and doctors who know about surgery and said have you ever heard of this, and they say, no.

SANCHEZ: That is what makes the potential charges against him so serious.

COHEN: Right, exactly. It's not just like giving him too much valium or giving him a prescription for valium Ambien that he did not really need. This is highly unusual, taking a drug you are supposed to use for surgery and giving it to him every single night to put him to sleep.

ASMAN: It is a heck of a thing. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Meanwhile, we will also be following this. This why is Jim Wallis pulling his money out of the Bank of America? He is the pastor and author who says this has a lot to do with America's backward values. He's going to join me here in a little bit. Stay there. We are coming back. This is "The List" folks, and I'm happy to list it for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, welcome back. We have just gotten some new information on exactly what is going on with the story that we began our newscast with, and that is that a plane has gone down in the Dominican Republic.

This is sad, folks. These are people that were giving of their own time to help other people who had suffered as a result of an earthquake, and somehow in the process of saving others, they lost their own lives, two men, one of them was a pilot and the other one, it appears like he may have been a doctor.

And Brooke Baldwin is drilling down on this and trying to get us some more information. I think we have some maps and pictures coming in now as well. Talk us through it.

BALDWIN: It's a heartbreaking story. I literally just got off the phone with the son of one of the men who died. So I got off the phone with Mark Jalovec, and it was his father Jim Jalovec who owned the helicopter. He believes it belonged to his business, Sweetwater Enterprise, out of Naples, Florida.

He was onboard this helicopter with John Ward who is an ongoing pilot. And these are fresh pictures from the crash, and here is what the son told me.

SANCHEZ: Into a mountain no less.

BALDWIN: Into a mountain in the western part of Dominican Republic. And the son, Mark, said I don't know whether he was going into Dominican Republic or coming out. Everything is fluid right now. But he was crushed obviously.

He told these were two great men and they died doing something great for a place of devastation. His father had never been to Haiti, and like so many of us in the last few weeks you see the pictures and the stories and you think, what can I do?

And so his father being a businessman and having means got a pilot and knew a priest familiar with Haiti, grabbed some doctors, and for the last few days they went down there Monday and have been helping.

SANCHEZ: This is a heroic way to live and a heroic way to die. It reminds me of Roberto Clemente, who was one of the greatest baseball players who ever lived. I don't know if you followed him or not. But he died one day when there was a horrible earthquake in Nicaragua.

And he was a baseball player who made lots of money, and he said I'm going to go down there to help them. He got on a plane and the plane crashed into the ocean, he drowned, and they never even found his body. The guy is in the Hall of Fame.

BALDWIN: A hero. They were there, doing good for the people of Haiti, and they died.

SANCHEZ: I talk to my kids and I argue with my staff about this all of the time. In the media we overuse the word "hero," we call anybody a hero nowadays. That's heroic. Thank you for the report.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: That's good stuff. Appreciate it.

Listen, when I come back, I want to ask another question, because there is another case of people who are in Haiti who are in some trouble. They were following god's law -- if you see people in need, go and help them. But somehow they tramped man's law. Think about that for a moment, because that's what we're going to talk about when we come back. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Jim Wallis is a preacher, and he is also an author who has appeared on "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" to say that he is taking his money out of Bank of America.

He has also got this new book, all right. It's called "Rediscovering Values on Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street." Here's the book right there. It is a good one, by the way.

Why are you taking your money out? Why did you tell Jon Stewart that?

JIM WALLIS, PRESIDENT'S COUNCIL ON FAITH-BASED NEIGHBORHOOD PARTNERSHIP: Well, you know, when we are afraid of the financial meltdown, it is like we have extended grace to the big banks, and now they are extending no grace to anybody else. There is a parable about that in the bible, as you know. So I say that if the banks are too big the fail, let's make them smaller.

SANCHEZ: That is interesting. That's exactly what I think that most people who are watching what is happening in the country right now expect. It is not like they are saying -- I'm OK with the fact that we helped you guys when you were down, but now that you are starting to make it back, how about us?

WALLIS: Yes, there is this big moral contradiction that the folks who caused the crisis, why do they land on their feet and always do well, and those who had the least to do with it like my hometown in Detroit where one in every two workers is looking for a job? They feel alone and left out.

So we have the talk about Main Street and Wall Street and all of our streets. So I think underneath the economic crisis, there is a values crisis, and a lot of us feel that now.

SANCHEZ: That is why I enjoy talking to you, because you put things perspective from a faith-based position that most of us wouldn't look at it from. And I tussle with this all of the time.

I am not jealous that these guys are wealthier than me, that they're going to make millions. I'm happy having my home in the suburbs and having my wife, my dog, my turtle and my four kids. But you know what, don't beat me over the head with it, OK, don't abuse me with it.

By the way, I want to ask you something else. I have been watching this situation down in Haiti and you're a man of faith, so I have to ask you -- there's god's law and there's man's law, and these folks seem to be following god's law. God says to help poor children, and they want down there to help the poor children.

But in the process, they may have trampled a law that says you can't do that unless you have permission here, there, and you have these documents signed. How do you reconcile those two?

WALLIS: Well, I don't know the facts in the case, and most of us don't, but maybe they were trying to do something good, but countries want to protect their kids from trafficking. So you have a tension here.

But I think that how do we bring a moral issue into the public debate? That is what this book tries to do.

SANCHEZ: But let me ask you -- here, let me give you another example. This is one you can relate to and everybody out there can relate to, because it happens to me all the time. I leave here on my way home, and some homeless person asks me for a couple dollars. I invariably stop, and if I have it, I want to give it to them.

Meanwhile, I just caused a traffic backup, and the guy behind me is honking his horn and police could give me a ticket and ask me, what the hell are you doing stopping on a highway?

God is telling me help that man. The law in my society and my community is saying, don't back up traffic and mess everything up for everyone else.

Again -- let me give you another example. There's a guy I talked to yesterday, his name is Jeff Charlotte. He write a book that many of the guys in Washington are at some place called C Street, politicians in a place called C Street.

He says that many times because they figure they're so religious, they think that in many ways the law doesn't affect them, that they can do things the rest of us can't do. Roger, play that sound. Play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SHARLET, AUTHOR, "THE FAMILY": Mark Sanford himself explained it for us when he said I'm going to stay in the governor's office despite what I've done, despite calling for others to because I'm like King David, I'm chosen for leadership by god.

It's not so much that you should do these terrible things but that even when you do, there's just not this vehicle of accountability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Accountability.

WALLIS: As you and I have talked about, you don't go left, you don't go right. You go deeper. Underneath the political news cycle is always a moral question. The book talks about a crisis, and it's a great time to have a new conversation on values. We won't get through economic recovery without a moral recovery as well.

So there's a bad morality play of banks, bailouts, and bonuses -- $150 billion in bonuses with massive suffering I would say is a sin of biblical proportions. But underneath that you have an erosion of societal values, like new maxims. We have been seduced by greed is good, it's all about me, and I want it now.

To counter that, I talk about old virtues, like enough is enough, we're in this together, and I love the indigenous native people's ethics. You evaluate decisions today by their impact on the seventh generation out. Now, that would change things.

SANCHEZ: Are there some people who actually go further and justify what they do? You know, you and I heard that there's people out there now that actually believe in being wealthy, that the gospel -- the gospel of prosperity. I'm going to do this because god wants me to rich or god want me to be successful, god wants me to wear a $3,000 suit.

I say that sounds like hooey.

WALLIS: The prosperity gospel is a heresy.

SANCHEZ: It is.

WALLIS: And what I'm excited about is I see town meetings happening, congregations having a moral conversation about the crisis. What does it mean to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim in relationship to this crisis, or just a moral person? And so I think people are ready for a new conversation about values here.

So we're traveling the country, and we're trying to talk about what is a moral compass for a new economy. Not just Wall Street. Accountability, you say, that's the key for Wall Street. How did they be accountable? Washington.

But also look in the mirror at ourselves. My Depression-era parents did not spend money they didn't have for things they don't need.

SANCHEZ: We don't need ten flat screens, do we, Jim?

WALLIS: People are looking at how much time they have with their kids. I have a chapter, the conversion to a family matters culture. How do we have new habits of the heart, you know?

SANCHEZ: I got to tell you, I'm writing a book, I've got a job, I've got these two hours now, and one of the things that I always tussle with at the end of the day is I ask myself, did I spend enough time with Savannah or Remmi or Robbie? Did I call my son who's in college now? Did I get into their heads?

That's tough to do, OK. It's easy to talk, but being a dad with four kids and a wife is not always easy.

WALLIS: At the end of the book there are 20 moral exercises. The first one is a calendar is a moral document, you know? Because, I'm a little league baseball coach. I have an 11-year-old, a six- year-old. I build my travel now around little league baseball.

But a calendar really talks about what you spend your time doing. So a lot of folks are buying less and doing more. So I'm asking people to look at your life priorities, write them down with your wife or spouse, and then look at your budget, which is a moral document, and your calendar. It's kind of a wake-up call.

SANCHEZ: Your budget and you calendar is a moral document. I've never heard that quite said that way. That's an interesting takeaway.

WALLIS: It's all these exercises that help us to look at ourselves as well as Wall Street. I want to be tough on Wall Street, they have to be held accountable. Twenty-five percent of these bonuses, just that much, would be enough to postpone or prevent all the foreclosures through 2012. I say you send their bonuses to Haiti. That would be a good idea.

SANCHEZ: Does it make you mad that the system was set up under the Obama administration, let's call it what it is, so that they'd help those guys first and not us? Do you wish some more of the money had been given to Main Street and less to Wall Street?

WALLIS: Main Street feels left out, left behind, and abandoned. And I think it's time to talk about what a common good economy looks like.

So I was at Davos last week with these CEOs, and I said you guys have to step up here and provide some leadership. So we talked about values in a post-crisis world. You know, I said your trust is the lowest ever. So we need some -- we need to regulate you guys, but also that won't be enough, you're right. We need ethical behavior on the part of business leaders and others.

SANCHEZ: Tell them, Jim. Somebody has to.

WALLIS: Speaking the truth to power is what religion ought to do, right?

SANCHEZ: And that's why I enjoy reading your stuff and I enjoy having you on and I'm glad you're our guest.

WALLIS: Great to see you on your home turf, man.

SANCHEZ: First time you've been down here. Welcome to "Hotlanta," my friend. Jim Wallis, I appreciate your visit.

We're also going to bring you the latest on a couple of other stores we're following right now, including what's going to happen on -- speaking of Wall Street.

You know, there's all this talk that the DOW might possibly flirt underneath 10,000. It's four minutes, and when we come back, we'll tell you what it actually does. The key is, does it end there, right?

Also, "The List That You don't want to be on." Here's a hint -- she's a public official convicted of taking from the poor to give to the not-so-poor, Jim Wallis. We'll be right back. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: It's time now for "The List You don't Want to be on."

She is not a national figure, but people in Baltimore certainly know who she is. Sheila Dixon, private citizen. She was the mayor until yesterday. She resigned, part of a plea deal after a jury convicted her of taking gift carts donated for needy families in her city. She reportedly went shopping at Best Buy and Old Navy with the cards.

The judge who gave her two years probation said ex-mayor Dixon now wears a badge of dishonor.

SANCHEZ: Spot number two, former congressman Tom Tancredo, Republican, Colorado, the tea party convention is underway, and Tancredo was the opening act in Nashville. With one line he demeaned immigrants, the presidency, and called many voting Americans stupid. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM TANCREDO, (R) FORMER CONGRESSMAN: People who could not even spell the word "vote" or say it in English...

(APPLAUSE)

... put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House. His name is Barack Hussein Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Tancredo, American nativist in the style of Bill Poole. Google Bill Poole and you'll see the comparison. Especially Google him if you're Irish. Tom Tancredo makes the list you don't want to be on.

Here's what else we'll be having for you as you follow our show. First of all, take a look at this.