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CNN Live Event/Special

Now: Judge & Attorneys Debating Evidence For Trump Trial; Israeli War Cabinet Ends Heated Meeting About Iran Attack Response; Now: Judge & Attorneys Discussing Michael Cohen's Testimony. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 15, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome back to CNN special coverage. I'm Anderson Cooper in Tel Aviv. As we wait to learn how Israel will respond to Iran's massive missile and drone attacks today, Israel's war cabinet met behind closed doors. Sources telling CNN it got heated as they discussed the timing and the scope of any kind of response.

We're going to turn to Colonel Peter Lerner. He's a spokesman for the IDF. Colonel Lerner, thanks for being with us. What can you say came out of that war cabinet meeting today?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESPERSON, IDF: Thank you, Anderson. Good to be here. What I can say is that of course the idea presented to the government expected -- (INAUDIBLE)

COOPER: Hey, I'm sorry. Colonel Lerner, we're having a problem with your audio. I thought it was just in my ear, but apparently, it's going on in the air. So, we're going to try to reconnect with you. We'll try to bring that -- bring you back. Let's pass it back to Kaitlan in New York. Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Yes. Anderson, as we are working on those technical difficulties, waiting to get an update from what is happening in Tel Aviv, we're also seeing what is happening right now inside the courthouse here for the other major story we are following as we are still waiting on the actual jury selection in Trump's first criminal trial to get underway.

Technically, it's 11:30 a.m. here on the East Coast, and not one prospective juror has actually been brought in the room to be questioned by the prosecution and by the defense because they are still arguing over what those jurors, once they are decided what they can hear and also whether or not Donald Trump has violated his gag order. I've got CNN's Paula Reid and Kristen Holmes here with me.

And, Paula, the gag order is a notable thing because right now they're technically on a break. Donald Trump has just exited the courtroom. He didn't say anything as he left the courtroom. But what they are arguing is that with comments he was making about Michael Cohen, we were just talking about the central role he'll have in this case, if that violated this gag order. Is this something that the judge is going to decide yes, or no, Trump did violate it? PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, it appears that this break may be for the judge to take a moment and decide what to do. Now, it's certainly not a surprise that Trump would violate a gag order. We've seen him do it before.

But the challenge for the judge is what do you do now? We're not even half a day into jury selection at the outset of a five to six-week trial, how do you keep Trump within the bounds of his gag order without making him a murderer, or disrupting this case? So, the prosecutors here said that they were going to seek to have Trump held in contempt for these comments where he referred to -- they argue he referred to Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, two key witnesses in this case, as "sleazeballs."

And there are two examples right now that we just heard in the past 15 minutes of social media, potentially getting Trump in trouble. One, prosecutors argue that they want to bring in tweets where it appeared Trump was pressuring Michael Cohen not to flip. And then, of course, these more recent social media posts where he appears to be attacking witnesses, which is a blatant violation of his gag order.

COLLINS: So, they're arguing about these old tweets from when Trump was actually on Twitter, which he's not anymore, as we all know.

RIED: Yes.

COLLINS: Whether those -- were he was pressuring Michael Cohen at the time not to flip on him whether those can be used as evidence, but also whether his posts and his comments from this just Saturday, 48 hours -- 36 hours ago, whether that is a violation of the gag.

REID: Exactly. And I mean, both of these arguments simultaneously. Now, it appears the judge is going to deal with the tweets eventually. But right now, the big question is, what are they going to do about this gag order because this is going to be a reoccurring issue every day throughout this trial? Because as we know, Trump does not stay within the bounds of gag orders. And even though every other defendant knows you can't attack witnesses, you can't attack the prosecutors, here, Trump can say whatever he wants about the judge or about the district attorney, Alvin Bragg, but he is not allowed to attack witnesses, jurors, or family members of court personnel.

COLLINS: Well, and what the prosecutors are arguing behind those closed doors or what they just heard before they took this break, Kristen, is, you know, they're saying that it's very difficult for these witnesses to come forward and to testify. And they're saying that they're being intimidated by these kinds of posts, which, for Trump, you know, has been a tactic, tried and true that he is used to kind of shoot down either allegations or negative stories. I mean he does it with people who worked for him.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, look, it's a fear tactic, right? He is constantly used this. Not just social media, he's gone to the cameras and said this. He sometimes addresses people with a --

COLLINS: And I just want to note for one moment, Kristen --

HOLMES: OK.

COLLINS: That we are being told that this trial is restarting. There was a brief break that had been underway for about 10 to 15 minutes for the judge. As Paula was noting, several things for the judge here to weigh so we're keeping a close eye on that. We're watching to see what the judge is going to decide.

HOLMES: It -- this is something that he has done time and time again. Sometimes he doesn't even refer to these witnesses by name. He just alludes to the fact that they are witnesses against him and says something insulting. Now, I will say that when it comes to the gag order, one of the things really interesting to me is that he actually went this far this time around. If you've noticed, he has tried to dial it back within the actual bounds of the gag order.

[11:35:03]

Yes, he is still out there insulting the judge. He is still out there insulting the D.A. However, these are all things that don't fall within the gag order. That's because he's been briefed on by his lawyers on just how far he can go.

How do you get all the way up to the line without crossing it? Because he did cross it in his last case, and he did have to pay a hefty fine, and he doesn't want to do that again. So, the fact that he actually might have crossed it again is interesting to me, given the fact that he's actually been focused on this and some of his tweets have actually been -- or posts have been vetted by his attorneys.

COLLINS: Yes. And it raises a lot of questions of the judge and how he responds here. Because, of course, you know, if he does violate the gag order, is that a fine? Is it jail time? All of those are options.

Donald Trump's criminal trial is about to resume here in New York. He has just personally returned to the courtroom. We're waiting for the judge to get back in there. We'll keep you updated with our live updates.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:27]

COOPER: Welcome back. We are live in Tel Aviv. I want to bring in Colonel Peter Lerner. He's a spokesman for the IDF.

Colonel Lerner, I think we have the audio problem worked out. The Israeli war cabinet ended this meeting to discuss what Israel's response might be the nature of it, the timing of it, what it would look like. Can you say anything that came out of that meeting?

LERNER: No, Anderson, I'm afraid I can't confirm anything at this time. Of course, the cabinet was conducted, as you rightly pointed out, behind closed doors, and they gave the IDF their instructions to implement. We will continue to be prepared and poised to implement any instructions that the government gives us.

I think there's one lesson that we learned from Iran's attack on Israel on Saturday night is that a unity of decent nations came together to confront the diabolical plan of Iran. But it didn't stop on Saturday night, they only opened the front door because they came from the backstage and took front and center -- took the stage in order to attack Israel.

COOPER: You talked about a unity of nations. Some of those were -- Saudi Arabia was involved, but Jordan wasn't involved. What can you say about the participation of some of the other countries in the region, particularly Arab countries?

LERNER: So, you know, Israel has been for several years now part of the United States Central Command area of responsibility, which brings together the concerned parties of the region. And we conduct exercises in anticipation for a potential rocket, missile, drone attack from Iran and their proxies in the region. We've been exercising with the U.S. Central Command this type of scenario for many years now. I think what proved that the exercises that we've been committed to up until now was that we were very well-prepared. A 99 percent interception rate is an exceptional success.

The 170 explosive drones that Iran launched against Israel, they never even reached Israeli airspace. The 30 cruise missiles Iran, Iraq, and the Houthis launched also didn't reach Israeli airspace. And out of the ballistic missiles, 120 ballistic missiles that they launched, only of handful actually reached their destination.

COOPER: Yes.

LERNER: So, when we work together, we can confront the diabolical plans of Iran. And we need to be very cautious about -- you know, the reality is that Iran is a threat to everyone in the region because they are meddling with --

COOPER: Yes.

LERNER: On the stability and the security of all decent players. So, when we see what they're up to with Hezbollah --

COOPER: Yes.

LERNER: Where they have basically positioned a forward division of Iran on our borders, or Hamas. Hamas wouldn't have the ability to build a terrorist army that came into Israel on the seventh of October without Iran's support, finance, training, equipping.

COOPER: Yes.

LERNER: And the Houthis, they wouldn't be attacking --

COOPER: Right. Colonel --

LERNER: The shipping routes today without Iran's instruction. COOPER: Colonel. Let me just jump in here, Colonel the -- because I know we're short on time. The question was about the participation of other countries, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. I think you probably don't want to discuss that. But obviously, they're concerned about any Israeli response would be -- whether there would be continued cooperation of some of those regional countries.

Let me just ask you about the ground operation in Gaza. CNN is reporting that Israel has delayed its expensive ground offensive in Rafah, which has been scheduled to begin this week. Our Jeremy Diamond had been told that it was expected that leaflets would be dropped today as a -- as a prelude to that operation. That is not occurring. Can you confirm that it's been delayed or does the -- does what happened over the weekend complicate the war against Hamas?

LERNER: Listen, here's what I can say about the need to operate in Rafah. There is a clear need. We know that both hostages and Hamas are very strong in Gaza.

We know that we rescued two hostages from the clutches of Hamas in Rafah. We know that when we extracted the hostages, we came under extensive fire. If we want to fulfill our mission of dismantling Hamas as a governing entity and bringing home the hostages, they still hold 133 hostages in Gaza, the road to fulfilling those objectives goes through Rafah.

[11:45:06]

So, I want -- I won't go into operational specifics. Of course, that operation is still on the table. It still needs to be completed for us to be successful in completing our mission against Hamas and making sure that they never have the powers of government again to conduct the atrocities that they did on the seventh of October.

COOPER: Colonel Lerner, I appreciate your time today. Jake, let's get back to you.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Anderson, thanks so much. We're going to stay on top of all the developments out of Israel today. But back here in the United States of America, Donald Trump's criminal trial in New York has resumed after a short break. And we're getting some brand-new details from our teams inside that courtroom. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:07]

TAPPER: And welcome back to CNN's special live coverage of Donald Trump's historic criminal trial in New York City. The court has resumed after a short break. The judge, the prosecutors, and Trump's defense attorneys are now debating the testimony of former Trump fixer Michael Cohen. CNN's Paula Reid is outside of the courthouse in Manhattan. Paula, what exactly are they debating when it comes to Michael Cohen? REID: They are debating something that is going to be one of the biggest issues in this case. And that is Michael Cohen's credibility, and how much the jury can hear about his other crimes. Now, the first issue that the judge discussed when he came back from the break is, these -- are these tweets that Trump sent that appeared to pressure Cohen to stay on message and not to flip.

Now, of course, Cohen, Trump's longtime lawyer, consigliere, famously flipped on Trump. He pleaded guilty in a separate campaign finance case at the federal level. And here, prosecutors are saying they want to bring in evidence about his plea -- about his plea deal with federal prosecutors.

But Trump's attorneys argue that that should not be brought in because Trump is not charged with campaign finance violations. Now, the tricky thing about that, Jake, is the reason that this falsifying documents case is being charged as a felony is because the district attorney argues this was all done in furtherance of an effort to influence Trump's chances in the 2016 election. So, they're going back and forth right now about just how much evidence can be brought in a byte -- about Michael Cohen. And this issue of Michael Cohen's credibility, this is going to be central to this case.

TAPPER: All right, Paula Reid, thanks so much. Let's bring in David Urban. He's a Republican strategist and former Trump campaign adviser. David, good to see.

So, you worked on -- I want to show this, first of all, a courtroom sketch that we're getting in right now, which shows Donald Trump and the courtroom in lovely pastel. David, you worked on Trump's 2016 campaign. Tell us what you think is important when it comes to the testimony of Michael Cohen.

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So, Jake, I didn't know Michael Cohen at all during this time period, whatsoever. But I do think that the things that they're discussing right now that Paula just alluded to in terms of his -- you know, his prior perjuries is going to be -- is going to be very important, right? And, in context, I think it's important for people to remember all this is alleged to have occurred, rights -- kind of smack after the Access Hollywood tapes, right released.

So, if people can remember the way back times, that was a pretty tumultuous point in the campaign where this Billy Bush Access Hollywood tape was released, and it caused, to say, a kerfuffle, as to put it -- to put it mildly. It was a big deal. And so then, this is payments are alleged to have occurred, some -- you know, 10 days, a few weeks, maybe a week or so after that. So contextually, I think it's important to remember what was going on at that time.

TAPPER: Can you give us any insight into candidate Donald Trump at that moment, 2016? He's made a lot of political hay out of these court cases, of course. What do you think is going through his mind as he sits in there this morning facing judge and jury? URBAN: Yes. So, Jake, I can tell you I'm sure the president -- the former president does not enjoy sitting anywhere for several hours having to listen and endure this -- what he perceives to be -- you heard him go into the courtroom where he perceives to be a persecution, not a prosecution, you know, in his mind. He's looking at Alvin Bragg who's reduced -- in 2022, Alvin Bragg reduced 52 percent of felony cases in New York to misdemeanors. And I'm sure the former president's thinking, you know, now he elevated my misdemeanor case to a felony here in 23 so he could come after me.

So, I'm sure -- I'm sure he's pissed -- I'm sure he's pissed to be sitting there and not happy about it. And I'm sure he's looking across at Michael Cohen sitting there at some place in the back, I can't really see the draw -- the pastels are kind of lost at me. I can't see if Cohen is anywhere in the background there in the courtroom. But I'm sure you know, it's not something that he enjoys whatsoever. He views it probably as a waste of his time and a waste of the court's resources and a waste of the state of New York's resources.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, the courtroom sketch artists always try to capture the moment in a larger sense. And in this picture, all I can see is Donald Trump looking across the aisle. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be a glower or just a glance. But it's not difficult to imagine him not being happy with Michael Cohen. You were also a senior adviser to Trump's 2016 campaign, and he's on trial today for his actions during that time.

URBAN: Yes.

TAPPER: If you could just bring us inside the campaign when it came to what was going on. You talked about the Access Hollywood tape, which is the president talking about -- it sounds like an assault on women but in any case, without revisiting that. What were the concerns about what might come out about Donald Trump and women during this period? There were also other allegations being made by other women about unwanted advances.

[11:55:18]

URBAN: Yes. Jake, so, I could tell you, you know, as you -- as you remember, I was on the ground in Pennsylvania, right? So, my focus was purely on the state of Pennsylvania and kind of keeping the wheels on the bus. After that Access Hollywood tape and those remarks on that bus, no pun intended, it was -- it was tough -- it was tough sledding. We -- the campaign and others were worried that people would not be supportive of the -- of the then-candidate Donald Trump moving forward. It was -- it was a big deal.

I could tell you. I believe that I had then-candidate Donald Trump for the first public event after the Access Hollywood tape in Beaver County, in Ambridge, Pennsylvania for a rally I believe on October 9, I think the tape came out on the seventh. I think -- I think we had them on the ninth. And there were 4500 people showed up and they were fired up to support Trump and, you know, kind of -- kind of went by the wayside. So, not -- there wasn't -- there wasn't a great deal of concern about these kinds of -- this -- you know, this check that was going to be written by Michael Cohen that we didn't know about at the time.

TAPPER: Right. All right, David Urban, thank you so much for your insights. We're following every detail of this historic trial today as prosecutors and Trump's attorneys argue over what testimony the jury will be allowed to hear. We're going to be joined by an attorney and jury consultant about what to expect in the courtroom this afternoon. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)