Return to Transcripts main page
This Week in Politics
The Week's Reporting of Political Events
Aired June 14, 2008 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TOM FOREMAN, HOST: Welcome to THIS WEEK IN POLITICS. I'm Tom Foreman. The economy is issue number one for voters. And for that reason, it's problem number one for the candidates, a problem that this week got worse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, HOST (voice-over): Gas prices up. Food prices up. Foreclosures and mortgage rates up. Unemployment up. For many Americans, it seems like the economy itself is going up in flames. Who can slay the dragon of recession? Both candidates claim the honor. And the one who sells his plan best will probably win the election.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've called for another round of fiscal stimulus, an immediate $50 billion to help those who have been hit hardest by this economic downturn.
JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've run into low income Americans who have to drive a long way to work and then have high gas consumption automobiles. They'd like a little relief. And so that maybe they could buy some school textbooks for their children this fall.
FOREMAN: Look at the map, though. Those yellow states curling like a dragon across the country's midsection are battle grounds, where either side can win. And in many cases, these are the states where the downturn is hitting hardest. No wonder Obama was in Wisconsin, the belly of the beast this week, reciting his magic words, McCain will carry on the policies of George Bush.
OBAMA: We failed to keep the fundamental promise that if you work hard, you can live your own version of the American dream. Instead, folks are working harder for less.
FOREMAN: But McCain is in the dragon's den too with his own mystical incantation.
MCCAIN: This campaign is about change. It's got to be the right kind of change. Not going back to the failed policies of the '60s and '70s, not a second term of Jimmy Carter. So that's what we're going to have when I'm president of the United States.
FOREMAN: Congress, don't count an on that army to save you. Lawmakers spent much of the week working on an extension of unemployment benefits, even though they knew the president was planning a veto. What's a voter to do, but watch Washington fiddle while the dragon roars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: I'm joined by two reporters who won't play second fiddle to anyone, senior reporter Ken Vogel is over at the Virginia headquarters of the Politico. And with me in our Washington studios, congressional correspondent Jessica Yellin.
Ken, let me start with you. The economy seems to be going so badly right now. Do either one of these guys really have a hope of fixing it?
KEN VOGEL: Well, the question is not whether they have a hope of fixing it, but rather who voters perceive to have more chance of fixing it. I think in that category, the edge definitely goes to Barack Obama. A lot of voters, according to polls, associate George Bush, blame him and his administration for the home foreclosure crisis and for rising gas prices and food prices. And so Obama has rather astutely sought to identify McCain with these Bush economic policies.
And what McCain has tried to do is create a little distance between himself and Bush on his economic policy and also show that he is sensitive to the concerns of Americans who are feeling the pinch of an economic downturn. He's talked about the moratorium on the gas tax, he's talked about help for homeowners who have been foreclosed upon. But it's a fine line for him as well, because the economy is one area in which he can also appeal to the elements of of the conservative base who have been a little upset with him for his stances on immigration reform and campaign finance reform.
You talk, Ken, about that poll. Let's take a look at it. In one of the latest polls, who would better handle the economy? Obama is ranked 50 percent, McCain at 44 percent.
But Jessica, we pointed a little while ago to that cluster of states that run up through Minnesota, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, that whole area right there. Those were areas where Obama did not do well convincing voters that he understood working class problems. Because those are the battle ground states, could that offset the overall impression that he's the better guy?
JESSICA YELLIN, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Obama campaign doesn't think so. They think that as long as the economy is the issue, they win this one. And that's why you've seen him go into those battle ground states to try to persuade all those voters in there that he is the one who's going to create change. It's been his mantra. It applies to the economy.
We've heard him turn into this populist a la John Edwards, a la Hillary Clinton. And now Barack Obama is adopting the same I feel your pain messages that worked so well for Senator Clinton in those very battle ground states. He thinks he can win those places as long as he keeps that messages alive.
FOREMAN: I want to look a little more specifically at the plans they're putting out here. First, McCain's overall plan for the economy and what he would do. He's proposing the idea of federally mandated universal health care, extending the 2003 Bush tax cut law into 2010, and a government bailout for mortgage crisis, but only as a last resort.
Whereas Obama's plan, if you look at it, would create a national health care program, scale back capital gains dividends taxes, and reexamine tax benefits for higher earners. In other words, go after the richer folks to help them pay more of the bill, and create $10 billion in a fund to prevent foreclosures.
Ken, when I look at those two different plans, I can see differences, but I can also see a lot of similarities. The biggest similarity being the economy is big and unwieldy and actually fixing it is tough.
VOGEL: That's right. And neither one of them wants to be pigeon holed as sort of a typical Democrat or a typical Republican on their economic policies. Because you know, you hear them both talking about change and changing the way we do business in Washington. It would be really bad if Obama - if McCain were successful in categorizing Obama as a tax and spend liberal. Likewise, it would be really bad for McCain if Obama were able to categorize him as Bush's third term.
FOREMAN: So Ken, I think you made the point, though, that McCain could make ground on this if he touches with all those conservatives who are frustrated over the fact that Republicans have lost their way on this.
VOGEL: That's right. And that's what I was getting to is one way in which he's doing that is sort of out conservating Bush, if you will, on a couple of points, including federal spending. A big issue of his for years has been reducing pork barrel spending and earmarks. And we hear him talk about that.
Another way in which he's kind of gone this more populist route that in some ways is anti-free market is talking about prosecuting corporate executives who engage in what he calls reckless activity. So I think we'll -- and Obama on the flip side is talking about scaling back the capital gains tax for small businesses. So those are not traditionally Republican or Democratic positions, that each of them are taking to kind of show how they would bring a new approach to the economic problems.
FOREMAN: I was just -- the question about the current Congress. The fact is we have a president now. And we have a Congress now. Neither one of these guys can do anything about it for at least a year. Is there any real effort to do anything about the economy now?
YELLIN: Well sure. I mean, there's constant efforts to extend unemployment benefits, bail out the mortgage, some people are suffering with bad mortgages. But the bottom line is, even though Bush's popularity has decreased, even though you know, the -- he's a lame duck, Congress' margin remains the same. And they do not have the majority to enough of a majority to override him on all his vetoes to really make a difference.
FOREMAN: But Jessica, is nobody up here even talking about real bipartisan efforts anymore?
YELLIN: Oh, come on, Tom.
FOREMAN: Is anybody from either party saying...
YELLIN: Yes, they talk.
FOREMAN: ...we have to solve it?
YELLIN: They talk. They talk. But there is really no effort to come together in a real way because the Republicans have a very strong minority position. And they think if they give in to the Democrats, they lose key issues in an election year. And election year is more polarized than other years because the two sides want to stake out very purist grounds. And that makes compromise even harder.
FOREMAN: Ken, is it unfair to say that essentially what we're seeing then is that the people who are in charge right now are saying we're more concerned about winning the election than we are fixing the U.S. economy?
VOGEL: Well, actually, we're going to see them bring up a number of votes that have no chance of succeeding on either side, just to make their respective parties kind of take a stand on these issues that are going to be in play in 2008 in the presidential election. So there is going to be a lot of posturing and probably not a lot of legislating that has a realistic chance of passing and addressing some of these problems.
FOREMAN: And I think on that depressing note, we'll have to go now. Thank you both. We appreciate it. To be in play in 2008, in the presidential election. So there is going to be a lot of posturing and probably not a lot of legislating that has a realistic chance of passing and addressing some of these problems.
I think on that depressing note, we're going to have to go now. Thank you, Ken. Thanks, Jessica. We appreciate it.
When we come back, why Barack Obama is going to lose. And right after that, why John McCain is going to lose. After all, we've got to be fair.
But first, we want to pause to look back at a man whose life was devoted to being fair.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is "Meet the Press with Tim Russert."
TOM FOREMAN, HOST (voice-over): Tim Russert changed political reporting in a way that changed politics itself. Each Sunday morning, newsmakers lined up to join him on the world's longest-running TV show, "Meet the Press."
TIM RUSSERT: An exclusive Sunday morning interview. FOREMAN: He started out working for politicians, but as a journalist, his incisive, probing interviews soon set the standard for tough, fair reporting. He was an innovator, the first to look at America in terms of red states and blue states. But most of all, he was a joyous, loving man. He loved reporting. He loved politics. And he loved his family. NBC News Washington bureau chief Tim Russert passed away this week at the age of 58.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOREMAN: Tom Petty had it right, sometimes the good times are just too good to last. And right now, Barack Obama is having his share of good times. But they could vanish overnight. How could he lose this election? Quite easily.
To help me walk through some nightmare scenarios for his team, Democratic strategist Stephanie Cutter, who has dealt with her share of nightmares as communications director for John Kerry at one point.
Listen, let's turn to the big board here and go right to the issues that Barack Obama has to take seriously. And the first one we bring up here is this overall question that he might be some kind of a radical or a liberal, that he is being pounded by on the right. I want you to listen to a little bit of sound from various people talking about this in the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: White men who say he's too liberal.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN: He says Obama is the most liberal senator in Congress.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN: They view Obama as ultra liberal.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: We keep talking about the long term radical associations of Barack Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: I think we're going to hear this all summer long. What does he need to do to offset this?
STEPHANIE CUTTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, every four years we always hear this all summer long. It's the same playbook Republicans play time in and time out. And what they don't realize is the game has changed.
And you know, for instance, yesterday, the Obama campaign launched fightthesmears.com to set the record straight. And they are enlisting their 1.4 million people on their e-mail list to be their army to set the record straight.
When you look at his record, and that his 1.4 million people online will help him communicate his record, he is in the mainstream of politics. He is in the mainstream of the American people. And elections...
FOREMAN: Well, you say that, but you know that many Republicans are going to say over and over again, no, he's not. He's to the left of the mainstream.
CUTTER: Right.
FOREMAN: And he's trying to present just his most mainstream ideas...
CUTTER: Right.
FOREMAN: ...as his mainstream play.
CUTTER: Right. Republicans, of course, will say that, but they don't understand where the country is. The country is against the war in Iraq. John McCain is for it. The country is for economic reforms that all Americans can get ahead. John McCain is against it. These are the things that Barack Obama is going to be talking about over the course of the next five months. And his army of online supporters are going to be setting the record straight so that Republicans can't do the same thing they do every four years to Democrats this time.
A couple of examples of why people just aren't buying it. You know, tens of thousands of Obamacans, these are Republicans that came out in the primaries to support Barack Obama, he's winning three times as many votes in states like Virginia, red states, than all of the Republican primary candidates won combined. So you know, those examples...
FOREMAN: Yes, but you're talking about primary votes. We'll see what happens in the general.
CUTTER: But in Virginia, who knew that there were that many Democrats in Virginia?
FOREMAN: Let's turn to our second big point here. The big point that we put in number two is the question of experience. There is no question that when he ran against Hillary Clinton, he was able to say she's part of the old world.
CUTTER: Right.
FOREMAN: I'm part of the new one. But the difference in their experience was not nearly as big as it is with John McCain. Listen to what John McCain has said, because I know you've heard it already.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: For a young man with very little experience, he's done very well. So I appreciate with his very, very great lack of experience and knowledge of the issues, he's been very successful.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FOREMAN: He really does have limited experience by Washington standards.
CUTTER: By Washington standards.
FOREMAN: What should he do about that?
CUTTER: Well, the flip of that argument is that for someone who's been in Washington for decades, John McCain is exactly the wrong experience. And that comparison -- elections are about choices. And when you make that choice clear to the American people about someone who has had the right judgment, who has taken risks, who has worked from the ground up for change, put this country back on track versus someone who's been in Washington enlisting 127 lobbyists for his campaign, a real inside player.
FOREMAN: Beyond that, though, let me ask you a question though. Do you worry as a Democrat, though, when you have somebody who just hasn't been around Washington and international affairs so much that Barack Obama potentially makes a mistake?
CUTTER: They said the same thing about Jack Kennedy. You know, and this country is ready for a change. And the most important characteristic you can have as a presidential candidate is judgment. And I think Barack Obama, has demonstrated that he has that judgment to lead.
FOREMAN: Last question I want to get here - last one. It's a question of patriotism. The simple truth is there have been these rumblings out there all along about the flag pin, about this notion that he's, you know, a Muslim, which is absolutely not true. The notion that somehow he's in his heart patriotic.
CUTTER: Right.
FOREMAN: It seems to that's a hard thing to fight, because that's a general impression of a person.
CUTTER: Right.
FOREMAN: If you were managing Barack Obama right now, what do would you tell him to do to fight it the best he could?
CUTTER: Well, certainly the threat of an unpatriotic charge is very serious and should be taken very seriously. And we know over the past year, year and a half, these Internet rumors have persisted on Barack Obama.
FOREMAN: So what should he do? He's going to do the thing where he tries to address the Internet. But overall, what would you have him do to reassure voters?
CUTTER: Exactly what he's doing. It's more than just wearing a lapel pin. It's, you know, fighting for your country. Love of country. It's supporting our troops. You know, he fought on the Senate floor for the GI bill. John McCain opposed it. This is, you know, important support for our troops coming home, basic support resources. You know, I would -- Barack Obama is out there. He embodies America, the American dream. Where else could Barack Obama be elected president? Only the United States.
FOREMAN: So you'll just keep pushing that notion. Well, we're going to find out as the election goes on whether or not these are real danger zones out there, or if you're right, if they can be handled. Thanks for being here, Stephanie.
CUTTER: Thank you.
FOREMAN: Straight ahead, the lowdown on how John McCain could go down. But before we go down that road, here's our weekly political side show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons divorce problems just keep growing. First, his wife would not leave the governor's mansion. Now she has move to the guest house. She says he is having an affair. He says he is not. The local paper says he wrote 850 text messages to another woman. It's not the public's business, you say? Wrong. The messages were sent from a state issued cell phone with no text plan. At 15 cents per message, that's about 130 bucks. And here you thought getting a divorce in Nevada was cheap and easy.
Former Democratic presidential long shot Dennis Kucinich fought his way back into the spotlight this week. No, not by claiming to see another UFO, but by once again trying to impeach President Bush for his Iraq War policies.
DENNIS KUCINICH: Impeachment against President George W. Bush for high crimes and misdemeanors.
FOREMAN: The House voted to bury the plan in committee, a vote that undoubtedly took less time than the more than four hours Kucinich insisted they take to read the entire 35 count indictment into the record.
Speaking of impeachment, Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones achieved notoriety for their claims to sexual encounters with former President Bill Clinton. Now they are teaming up to tell you the juicy details.
Ken Starr spent millions to get the real dope on President Clinton. Times sure have changed. Today you can purchase Gennifer and Paula's video clips from their website for $1.99. We'll take a small break and be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOREMAN: Amy Winehouse singing that "Love is a Losing Game." Politicians get loved and left every campaign season. And it sure could happen to John McCain this time. So what are the potholes that could run the straight talk express off the road? We just did Barack Obama, now let's talk about John McCain.
We'll tell you what could go wrong. And we have no doubt that Kevin Madden, former communications director from Mitt Romney, will tell us how we're wrong in all of this.
Let's look to the wall first, Kevin, and turn to our first big subject up here. The biggest thing that could hurt John McCain is George Bush and being tied to everything that people see wrong about the Republicans. What does McCain need to do about that?
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think what McCain has to do is identify separately from the president. That doesn't mean run away from him. It doesn't mean criticize the president. But instead, point out areas where there are differences and make that case to the voters, that he's different on global warming. He's always been different on spending. Those are issues that a lot of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans can identify with. You can use that to his advantage.
And fundamentally, John McCain has to make this choice, not a referendum on the Bush administration, but a fundamental choice between Barack Obama and him on the big contrasts and the big issues.
How can he not make a referendum on the Bush administration, however, when the economy's going bad right now, the war is still unpopular, although it's going better, how does he do that?
MADDEN: Because I don't think that elections are fundamentally about where we were in the last eight years. But instead, they're going to be about where we're going for the next eight years. So have you to identify a lot of those economic anxieties that Americans have on energy prices, on health care costs, on job creation. And he has to put out specific plans on how he's going to address those issues.
FOREMAN: And that's going to involve some divorcing himself from the GOP, though.
MADDEN: Again, it's not divorcing. Instead, it's establishing a separate identity and talking about those issues and where we're going to go forward rather than litigating some of the wrongs of the past.
FOREMAN: Let's take a look at the next item on our list here. The next item is his age. Not so much his geographic age, although we do need to talk about that, but also the sense that he's part of old Washington. He's an old senator. He's been around a long time. Is that a real issue?
MADDEN: Well, I think the biggest problem with age is that it's the one thing that's probably out of anybody's control. There's not a whole lot John McCain can do to change the fact that he is over 70.
What he has to do instead is show Americans that he has a vision for the future. If it's constantly about where he was in the past and the arguments of the past when he was in the Senate, then there is a problem that the Democrats will continue to tag him as somebody with -- and you've heard it many, many times, Tom, that John McCain has tired, old ideas. They're going to implicitly and explicitly try and exploit his age.
But he constantly talks about the future, the direction he wants to take the country and how the two directions that he and Barack Obama want to take the country are very different, that Barack Obama will take them in the wrong direction. John McCain will take them in the right direction, that is how he uses it to his advantage.
FOREMAN: And he still has the basic health issues, but let's turn to the last item on here, which is a really tough one right now -- religion. For 30 years, there has not been a single Republican president who has not been benefited by an enormous turnout from the evangelical community. And I'm telling you, Kevin, the evangelicals are not excited about John McCain yet.
MADDEN: Look, in 2004, the Bush strategy was to go out and again, get as many of these evangelical voters that we could to the polls that we didn't get in 2000. So there was a concerted effort to do that. But if John McCain runs the campaign that we ran in 2004, he would probably lose by five points. He has to go beyond a base. He has to do everything he can to reach out to these evangelicals and social conservatives. But he has to...
FOREMAN: Do you think he is doing everything he can right now?
MADDEN: I think that the campaign is making a very concerted effort to go into these faith communities and find the influentials. That means the people that not only do they go to the polls, but they bring ten people with them to the polls. Motivate them on the issues that John McCain is right on, like the issue of life. And if John McCain goes out there and builds a coalition with that evangelical base and then beyond with Democrats and Independents, that's the calculus he needs for...
FOREMAN: If he fails with the evangelicals, is he cooked?
MADDEN: Well, you're saying fail with evangelicals. I think he has to do better than people expect with evangelicals.
FOREMAN: All right, we'll have to see. Kevin, thanks for coming in.
MADDEN: Great to be here.
FOREMAN: Appreciate it. Straight ahead, we'll turn to the lives of the young and the penniless. Now that's material for a political soap opera, of course, but they could help one candidate clean up in this election. And don't forget, our list of the coolest fictional presidents ever is coming up, the kind of guys you can really go crazy over, like you know, our favorite viral videos.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a McCainiac, McCainiac on the floor.
FOREMAN: The McCain girls are back. Fresh off their last hit, it's raining McCain, the conservative trio delivered another instant classic. McCainiac.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Singing) Talking straight talk on the straight talk express, changing America's lives...
FOREMAN: You know, some say these flash dance parodies are getting old. I think they're curiously refreshing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got dumped for Obama
FOREMAN: Apparently this song is based on a true story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The audacity of hope is how I cope
FOREMAN: Allegedly, she met a guy, he fell in love with the campaign trail, and left her behind. She's lucky. She could have been dumped for Mike Gravel.
And Americans have a new addition to their vocabulary. This rap superstar explains how it really works. .
Pretty cynical. Of course, we'll be back after we earn a few checks ourselves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
FOREMAN: Yes, it may sound like "Sex and the City," but we're talking about debt and the city. Young people just starting out and already in debt up to their eyeballs. Not only are they unable to get a mortgage, they can't move out of mom and dad's basement. They are young voters, a swing vote that both Republicans and Democrats are really chasing after.
To help me figure them out are two radio talk show hosts. Stephanie Miller joins me from Los Angeles, the land of eternal youth. And from Memphis, Ben Ferguson, who began his radio career at the tender age of 13. What was that, about six years ago, Ben?
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, over a decade. I'm getting old, man.
FOREMAN: Let me ask you both something. I'll start with you, Stephanie. Do you think that the politicians of this country, when they talk about the economy, are effectively talking about the economy in terms that matter to younger people?
STEPHANIE MILLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, Tom, I think you raise a really good point in the setup there, that these are tough times for everybody. But you know, particularly when you're just starting out, you know? I mean, this is a tough economy. I mean, a lot of people say a recession already. Look at the gas prices. But you know, look back to when you were starting out. I never made over $4 an hour in radio until actually about a couple of weeks ago. So I can imagine how tough it is for the youth like Ben.
FOREMAN: To get a leg up here, I want to look at one statistic, which I just think says almost everything. The U.S. median price for a new single family home, and it is staggering. In 1977, forgive me here, this is one year before I graduated from high school, $48,000. Today, $247,900. Ben, when you look at that, and you look at 20-year-olds and 30- year-olds, you know, you must be surround by people who sit down over beers in the evening and say, I cannot afford a home.
FERGUSON: Well, a lot of them have come to the conclusion that they're not going to own a home. And a lot of them have already -- they're in a ton of debt. I mean, we're graduating people now that have more debt when they leave college than ever before.
Because you look at even public education at universities. They're going up with their tuition, 6 percent, 7 percent, 8 percent a year. I mean, when you get finished with college after four years, if you graduate in that amount of time, your tuition easily could have gone up 40 percent.
So they're graduating with that debt. They're also graduating with more credit card debt than ever before. And a lot of them have just learned this idea of, hey, enjoy life and you're going to be in debt your entire life. And that's how they're living their lives. And now it's catching up to them with the gas prices and food prices, because they haven't planned for the future. And that's the reason why they're looking for someone who can say, I'm going to fix your problems, when the reality is they're the only ones that can fix their own problems when it comes to debt.
FOREMAN: Well, that's an easy thing to say, Ben, but Stephanie, I think part of the problem here is I've seen people who get into that state, particularly when they're young. And they never can crawl out, no matter what they do.
MILLER: Yes, there it is. There it is, Tom. It's, you know, Ben is the typical Republican. If you're in debt, you're a loser.
FERGUSON: Not at all, but if you're the one that's going out and partying Monday through Friday, and drinking a bunch...
MILLER: But Ben...
FERGUSON: ...and you're not planning for the future, it's not the government's job to bail you out.
MILLER: Of course. But that's not what's going on. You know, this housing crisis is hitting everybody. These gas prices are hitting everybody. And you know, the kids have it particularly tough. I mean, I couldn't afford to buy, you know, the house that I bought when I was starting out, whenever it was, ten, 15 years ago. You know, I couldn't afford to buy it today.
FERGUSON: But I think the biggest thing is now is you have candidates out there like Barack Obama, who for example has said I'm going to lower your gas prices, I'm going to lower your home prices, I'm going to fix the home loan market. And if you can afford your house, I'm going to help you not get foreclosed on.
If you act like that somehow that government's going to fix all your problems, why is anyone going to be responsible enough to actually not spend a ton of money...
MILLER: First of all...
FOREMAN: Ben, let me jump in here for a second.
MILLER: I don't think Barack Obama has actually said anything of those things.
FOREMAN: Hold on, Stephanie. Hold on a second. Ben, I want to jump in here for a second, because one of the questions here about an economy is whether or not you have a base level, where everybody can play the game. The fact is, let's put aside the people who are out wasting their money or making bad commitments. There are a lot of people who aren't making bad commitments right now and aren't looking for a government bailout but are saying, we do need a functioning economy. And if gas gets too high, if the cost of homes get too high, the economy just doesn't function for people anymore.
FERGUSON: Sure.
FOREMAN: What should we do for those people? What can we do for those people?
FERGUSON: Well, I think that's where government has to step in and actually say OK, we're going to actually allow, one, for more refineries in America. Two, we're going to open up drilling all across America, because we haven't done that before.
And the reality is the -- all over the world, people are struggling with gas prices. We're going to have to change and adapt the way that we do things. And it's going to mean that we change the way that we go out, the way we go to the movies, the way we do extracurricular activities in a sense with our lives until we get it under control.
But right now, the government has to do something to help us. And it's going to be more than a summer free day of gas taxes. It's going to mean that they actually start to look to do things that can help us in America, and make us not so dependent on foreign oil. And right now, we can't do if.
FOREMAN: And Stephanie, let me follow up with what Ben was saying to you as well. The flip side being, even if we say the government does have to get involved to a degree to stabilize the economy and make things better, what responsibility should we be asking from young people in exchange for a little more stability that gives them a hope for a good life and moving ahead when their parents already think the kids aren't going to do as well as they did?
MILLER: Well, you know, I think Ben and John McCain are right. We should do exactly the same things that George Bush has been doing now that has gotten us into this recession and these gas prices. I think we should stick with whatever those plans are...
FERGUSON: Stephanie, look at the whole world. MILLER: I don't think we're asking for the government to bail people out, Ben, but there clearly is a crisis in many areas in our economy.
FERGUSON: Stephanie -- look at...
MILLER: And Barack Obama is coming up with ideas to try to help.
FERGUSON: What are his ideas because what I'm confused of here is...
MILLER: First of all, can we just not say that it's the Democrats fault about gas prices if we got a thimble full of oil out of the National Arctic Wildlife Refuge, that we'll get in ten years? That's going to have nothing to do with gas prices.
FERGUSON: Hey, if we would have drilled in Anwar ten years ago like every Republican's been asking to do for the last 10, 15 years, we may not be so dependent on foreign oil right now.
MILLER: Oh, you're right. That'd be...
(CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN: You know, Ben and Stephanie, you know what's encouraging about that? I can tell that the younger generations are just going to carry on the fight just like the older ones. Thanks for both being here.
FERGUSON: Thanks for having us.
FOREMAN: Good luck to you. And good luck to all you young folks out there dealing with this issue. We will revisit it again many times on this show. Join us again.
So if you have no money, can $5 a gallon gasoline be good for you? Some folks in D.C. this week really think it can. And they've got one of the coolest cars on the planet right now to prove it. We'll show you.
But first, take a look at some of the other events on THIS WEEK IN POLITICS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE0
FOREMAN, HOST (voice-over): Minnesota has done it again.
JESSE VENTURA, FMR. MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: I think Minnesota's already shown that they're willing to take a gamble.
FOREMAN: The state that brought us Governor Jesse Ventura has nominated comedian Al Franken to run against incumbent Senator Norm Coleman. It looks to be an interesting race, especially if as he has hinted, Ventura now throws his hat into the ring. Now that would be a three-sided steel-caged death match. John McCain's daughter Megan has signed a deal to write a children's book about her father's life. Not surprisingly, it's coming out right before the Republican convention. No doubt to capture the 8-year-old vote. It's unclear how it will compete with beloved classics like "Good night Moon" or "Winnie the Pooh."
MCCAIN: Well, thanks for the question, you little jerk.
FOREMAN: And we didn't think it would happen, but Ron Paul has finally suspended his campaign for president. Now he says he'll work to get libertarian Republicans elected. On the other hand, I wouldn't count him entirely out. Remember Ron Paul voters are extremely optimistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron Paul's going to be president.
FOREMAN: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
FOREMAN: How do you think that's going to happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a ninja and I think he's just going to sneak on in. He's got the skills like that. He's just going to...
FOREMAN: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right across the street.
FOREMAN: Have you seen him do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the time.
FOREMAN: We'll be back in no time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOREMAN: This is the hyper-cool Tesla, a $100,000 all-electric sports car that ripped into Washington this week for a conference on electric vehicles. Lawmakers buzzed all around the event. The Department of Energy announced $30 million will be spent over the next three years to help research and development.
This political movement is being fueled by soaring gas prices. That's why some policymakers think $5, $6, even $7 a gallon would be great. But it's hard to swallow right now. So as we always turn to when the news is terrible, we turn to senior business correspondent Ali Velshi up in New York.
Ali, I could see you in one of these Teslas cruising over the Verrazano narrow there.
ALI VELSHI: And it works. It runs. It's -- the technology exists. That's the most exciting part of this. It's there. And I just actually spoke to somebody who said the same thing you just suggested. They are so worried that oil prices go down and gas prices go down, and we all forget ourselves. And we forget this pain. As long as the pain is there, it pushes us down that road to an entirely different way of looking at the way we fuel our transportation.
FOREMAN: How quickly do you think it's pushing us? And how high does the cost of gas have to stay to keep pushing us?
VELSHI: Well, I think we saw at $3.50 people abandoning trucks and cars. At $4.00 a gallon, national average, it continued to happen, but it is not pushing us fast enough. Our fuel economy ratings in this country are much lower than the rest of the developed world. We really, really need to go very quickly into this area. And that $30 million that the Energy Department is pledging is a drop in a bucket. We know what $30 million will get you this way.
We need to talk about trillions of dollars. This needs to be a war on oil and our attachment to it. This can happen very quickly. When I say quickly, I mean within five years, but not at the pace we're going.
FOREMAN: Do you see any indication from either one of the candidates, or from Congress or the White House to step it up to that level?
VELSHI: No, not at all. I'll tell you what they're both doing. John McCain is definitely interested in a market-driven approach to dealing with these issues, but he is talking about suspending that federal gas tax for the summer. And obviously, it would have to be next summer if he won the election.
He wants to lift the tariff on imported ethanol, which does nothing to suppress demand. He wants to assess. He says he's open to better fuel economy standards. 25 miles per gallon now. We're moving up to 35 miles per gallon by 2020. And he says the market should do exactly what you just talked about, develop more fuel-efficient cars.
Barack Obama doesn't think the market is doing its job, but his proposals are not that much stronger. He says the federal tax at 18 cents a gallon is immaterial. And he's right. He wants to keep the tariff on imported ethanol, so that the price stays relatively high. But he does want to double car fuel standards to 50 miles per gallon.
Just so you know, Japan is at 40 right now. And he wants to invest in fuel-efficient cars through his green jobs initiative. But neither of these are specific enough to actually get change and get it fast.
FOREMAN: It seems to me, Ali, that there's a real appetite in the public out there. I hear all sorts of people who wouldn't have talked about it a few years ago, saying, yes, if you have a reasonable alternative vehicle that really helps out, I will consider it.
VELSHI: And that doesn't cost a whole lot more than what we pay for a traditional combustion engine, and that has an ability to refill or recharge in the way that our lifestyles work. So we'll see fully electric cars in urban centers quickly, because you can plug them in easily and you don't drive such big distances. But for longer drives, what is it we're going to invest in? Is it going to be hydrogen? Is it going to be something else? That's the problem. Making a commitment to something and making enough of that type of car and enough of the types of places that you fill it to make it economical for most person Americans. That's what we need to do. But we need to really put our heads together and decide what the future is going to look like and then go in that direction. That's where we're having a political problem at the moment.
FOREMAN: I want to talk a little bit more about the Tesla, just because it's a good example of a car that's excited a lot of people out there. It goes well over 200 miles on a single charge. On the same power basically that you run your dryer at home. You can recharge the thing in about four hours. If they could push that up with the quality of batteries to where you could go closer to 300 miles, and you could get your charging done somehow in 20 minutes or less, do you think that would be the breaking point?
VELSHI: I completely do. And remember that GM has said that its concept car, the Volt, which was really just a concept car, might be in dealerships by the end of 2010. Toyota has announced by 2012 it will have a plug-in hybrid car available. This plug-in hybrid technology really is there.
Toyota's been a real leader in this, by the way, because they introduced that Prius when it was just for sort of cool granola types. And now everybody's after one of them. So yes, I absolutely think the fine tuning at the edges on something like the Tesla, which is still a fancier sports car. But the bottom line is it exists. And I think there are a lot of people we know who would actually go for that sort of thing.
FOREMAN: I'm telling you, I know you'd go for it. You'd look good in it, too.
VELSHI: I'd be in the front of the line.
FOREMAN: Thanks, Ali. We'll see what happens.
Straight ahead, time to change lanes and get on the fast track, but try to conserve that precious fuel because our late night laughs are coming up in just a bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O'BRIEN: For the first time ever, the national average price for a gallon of gasoline is over $4. Can you believe that? Yes. See, which explains the new nickname for gasoline, Starbucks for your car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOREMAN: It's time for fast track, everything you need in 90 seconds to get through the next week in politics. And who better to help us than our commander in chief, senior political analyst Bill Schneider. What surprises you about the latest polls between Barack Obama and John McCain?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That John McCain is doing as well as he's doing. The Republicans are deeply demoralized. George Bush's approval is at 32 percent, but McCain is competitive. He's at 46 percent. That's a huge gap. Why? Republicans are very lucky. They don't have an incumbent president running and they don't have an incumbent vice president running, so McCain looks reasonably independent right now.
FOREMAN: Shock of shocks, Ron Paul has finally suspended his campaign. Does that mean he'll quit bothering the GOP now?
SCHNEIDER: Nope. He's going to have an alternative mini convention right there in St. Paul, Minnesota, at the same time as the Republicans meet. He says he's going to use that $4.7 million he raised to run a permanent campaign. He ain't going away.
FOREMAN: And John McCain is heading to Canada. They can't vote up there, I don't think. What's this all about?
SCHNEIDER: Well, he says he's going to sing the glories of free trade and try to depict Barack Obama as a flip-flopper on trade. But McCain's got a big problem. If he wants to win those blue collar voters, everywhere I went in Ohio and Pennsylvania they said, they passed NAFTA, we got the shafta. It's not a winning issue.
FOREMAN: Do you have a favorite fictional president from the movies?
SCHNEIDER: I have some favorite fictional presidents, but they weren't in the movies.
FOREMAN: They actually served. All right, thanks, Bill.
In a moment, we'll get to our list. But first, let's get to our late night laughs .
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That fist-bump is like a roar shock test. Look. Look, it's Senator Obama making out with Osama bin Laden on the back of a butterfly whale, my mother?
JON STEWART: A gang sign? An obscene gesture? A sideways black power salute? A cannibal handshake? A communist aloha? Of course that's all hyperbole. The truth of what they really were doing is even more horrible. The move was done to crush someone's tiny adorable grandmother, who just baked a delicious apple and kitten pie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOREMAN: We don't know who the next president will be, but we do know what a great president should look like, thanks to Hollywood. So here, as promised, our top five fictional presidents from Tinseltown. Number five, Henry Fonda, so cool in the cold war classic "Fail Safe". He didn't even have a name. Number four, President Tom Beck played by Morgan Freedman holding the nation together after an asteroid hit in deep impact. Kevin Klein played the cute Dave Kovac in the nasty president Bill Mitchell all at once in Dave. And both of them ended up with first lady Sigourney Weaver.
Number two, get off my plane. Harrison Ford was the fighting president James Marshall in "Air Force One." But the coolest of all, our number one pick, Michael Douglas as President Andrew Sheppard, wooing lobbyist Annette Benning in "The American President." What, a politician in bed with a lobbyist? Well, that can only happen in the movies.
That's it for THIS WEEK IN POLITICS. I'm Tom Foreman. Thanks for watching. Straight ahead, "Lou Dobbs This Week".
