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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Small Plane Causes Big Scare in Washington, D.C.; Operation Matador Continues in Iraq

Aired May 11, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now, a full scale investigation underway. At the center of that investigation this small plane. And how and why it penetrated restricted airspace over the nations capital.
Standby for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Red alert, sudden and scary evacuation of the white house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the Secret Service agents told me, "Run, this is no joke. Leave the ground."

And Capitol Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is telling you run, run, run, and all that, unlike last time where they're saying take your shoes off, run for your life.

BLITZER: Intruder -- a small plane reaches the no-fly zone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the pilot was not responding.

BLITZER: Fighter jets are scrambled over the city.

How did it happen, and what happens next?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, May 11th, 2005.

BLITZER: Thanks for joining us.

The security scare tops our security watch. It was brief, but it certainly left hearts beating harder across the nation. And once again, it sent the nation's capital into controlled chaos. A small plane came within three miles of the White House and tested defenses developed since 9/11. We'll go live to our correspondents, who, themselves, were caught up in the drama.

Suzanne Malveaux is over at the White House.

Joe Johns is up on Capitol Hill. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, will tell us about the military's quick response.

But we begin with CNN's Brian Todd, who brings up to date on the day's dramatic events -- Brian.

BRAIN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the day's events are centered around a critical span of about 15 minutes, when the restricted air space over Washington, D.C., was breached.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): The alerts come suddenly and almost simultaneously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, let's go.

TODD: At just about the stroke of noon, word that Washington centers of power are being evacuated. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux calls in as she's rushed across the street to Lafayette Park.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's been quite a bit of commotion. One of the Secret Service agents told me, "Run, this is no joke. Leave the grounds."

TODD: White House officials had gotten word of a threat just minutes earlier.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: At approximately 11:59, the threat level here at the White House was raised to yellow. There was a Cessna plane within about 15 miles of the White House. It was north of the White House.

TODD: What seems like just seconds after the first alerts, a roar is heard over the city.

MCCLELLAN: Around noon, fighter jets were scrambled. At approximately 12:01, the threat level was raised to orange. The plane was within 10 miles, and an evacuation and moving of people to more secure locations began at that point.

TODD: Within a few nail-biting minutes, the White House, Supreme Court, the Capitol and its adjacent office buildings cleared out.

CHIEF TERRANCE GAINER, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: We began the evacuation of the Capitol at about four minutes after 12:00. It took us about five or six minutes to entirely empty the Capitol. We're happy to report that there were no serious injuries.

TODD: All this time, the two F-16s and a Black Hawk helicopter are tracking this small private plane that eventually comes within three miles of the White House.

MCCLELLAN: The pilot was not responding to efforts to communicate with the plane. And then, at 12:03, the alert level was raised to red.

TODD: In an eventful eight minutes, the plane is confronted. Former CNN anchor Bernard Shaw witnesses the scene.

BERNARD SHAW, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: What I saw were two F-16 jets and they were circling overhead, circling a single-engine plane. And the jet fighter pilots were banking very quickly. And I saw them fire two warning flares in the direction of the single engine plane.

TODD: The U.S. military later says four flares were fired. The fighter jets had finally gotten the pilot's attention.

MCCLELLAN: And at approximately 12:11, the alert level went back down to yellow. The plane at that point was turning west and traveling away from the White House and Capitol.

TODD: The all-clear is given roughly 15 minutes after the first alerts. The plane is escorted to a small airport in Frederick, Maryland. The pilot and another man taken into custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: A very intense reminder of what happened in this city and New York nearly four years ago. Now, during all this, the Pentagon and the State Department were not evacuated. Pentagon officials would given no immediate explanation. At the State Department, officials said they were considering whether to evacuate when the all clear was given -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Thanks, Brian, very much.

Lets go over to the White House now. Our correspondent Suzanne Malveaux was inside when the urgent order was announced, the order being get out. Tell our viewers what it was like that split second, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, it was quite chaotic. A lot of confusion that happened. We were in our basement office in the White House, and that is when me and my producer Matt Burnly (ph), we heard that there was something that was taking place outside. I grabbed my press ID and my cell phone, went running outside. And the scene that we saw outside, again, very confusing.

There were uniformed Secret Service agents as well as the emergency response teams, the people who you see with their guns drawn. And essentially was given a choice here. They said, either stay in the building or get off the grounds. That was what they were telling me. And I was trying to clarify do they need us back in the building or to leave. And then that is when one uniformed Secret Service agent made the decision for me when he yelled "This is no joke, get off the grounds and run."

And that is when they started escorting us across the north lawn. That is when at the same time I saw the vice president's motorcade leaving from the West Executive Drive very, very quickly, off the White House grounds. Also at the same time, while heading across the lawn, that is when I heard one of those fighter jets overhead. We could hear the roar of the fighter jet overhead still heading towards the gate. That is when we were escorted away. And they kept yelling to move across Pennsylvania Avenue, across Lafayette Park, to get as far away as possible as quickly as possible. This whole thing, Wolf, ended just about 15 minutes later. That is when we got the all clear.

A lot of questions to Scott McClellan this afternoon in the briefing, trying to clear up what kind of notification was given. I have to tell you there were some people who were inside the briefing room that never got word that there was an evacuation. Some crew members were actually eating their lunches, never realized what was actually going on. We asked them whether or not they thought security protocol was followed. They said they were very confident that it was.

We saw the president just several hours later. He was before the cameras, and he refused to answer questions to clear up just what had happened with this incident, including whether or not he was faced with the decision of having to shoot down that plane if in fact it got any closer to the White House. It was just three miles away. White House spokesman Scott McClellan saying, there's no indication that it got to the point where he'd have to give that kind of order. But, again, Wolf, still many unanswered questions.

BLITZER: The president was not at the White House at the time. He was off riding his bike, exercising in suburban, Maryland at a park. Suzanne Malveaux reporting for us. Thanks very much.

Within a minute of the first alert the U.S. military was scrambling a pair of fighter jets, and just as quickly they were roaring over the Capitol. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, while this incident ended without the need for any lethal force, it underscored that the U.S. military is ready to take action when there's an intrusion into the restricted air space over Washington. As you said, the first alert came about 10 minutes of noon, when they first got word that that Cessna aircraft had crossed into restricted air space.

The U.S. F-16s that intercepted it from nearby Andrews Air Force Base are on what's called 15-minute strip alert. That means they have to be able to launch in 15 minutes or less. In this case, it appears to be less. By the time they got over and intercepted that plane, these F-16s from the D.C. Air National Guard discovered that the small prop plane was not responding to their attempts to contact it. It was not emitting the correct frequency on its transponder. And so they eventually dropped flares to get the plane's attention, diverting it to the west when it was about three miles away from the White House.

Now, since September 11th, the procedures have been changed so it's not just the president or the vice president that can order the shoot-down of a civilian plane. They now have a -- what they call a limited chain of command that goes through the Defense Secretary, through the four-star commander of the U.S. Northern Command, a newly created command since September 11th, and even down to the level of some of his deputies at the three and two-star rank, who could make that decision if there's not enough time to consult the president.

As you said, in this case, the president was riding a bicycle. He still was in communication. And Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon. We're told that he was engaged in the situation and he was also in a position to make a decision if necessary. But it didn't come to that -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Fortunately, it didn't. Thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

And to our viewers, please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security. Two men now in custody after their small plane triggered that full-blown evacuation in the nation's Capital at Capitol Hill and the White House. Just who are these two men and what were their intentions? There are new developments in this investigation. Our Kelli Arena standing by with that.

Forced down: we'll take you live to Frederick, Maryland, where the Cessna was escorted to the ground.

And shootdown in the skies: how the military eventually decides whether or not to bring a plane down by force. We'll have a story you will see only on CNN. We'll be right back.

And tonight, by the way, don't forget to join Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, Larry King and Aaron Brown for "Defending the Skies," CNN's special live coverage from Washington D.C. -- all the special coverage will begin tonight 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our special coverage of today's security alert here in Washington with a look at the investigation, now. And the two men now in custody who flew a small plane within only three miles of the White House.

Let's bring in our CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena. What are you learning, Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf. Federal agents from both the Secret Service and the FBI detained and interviewed the two men to find out why they entered that restricted air space and why they did not respond to communications to leave it. Federal officials confirm that one of the men, Jim Schaffer, is a pilot. He was accompanied by Troy Martin, a student pilot.

Now, according to a friend of those men, they are members of the Vintage Aero Club based in Smoketown, Pennsylvania. And the Cessna that they were flying is owned by that group.

Friends say that the men were heading to an air show in North Carolina. And say that they're sure that the men flew into the restricted air space accidentally. Now officials that we've spoken to say even if there were no criminal intent, that the men could face civil penalties and fines up to $1,100 per violation.

So, now, with a could those include? Well, violations could be things like entering the restricted air space in the first place, or ignoring notification about restricted air space around the nation. The pilot could also have his license suspended or revoked. And the range for suspension is normally about 30 to 90 days per violation.

There's no official word yet from the FBI or Secret Service about what they learned in those interviews, but officials hear in Washington have told us that there's no information suggesting that the men were involved in any type of criminal or terrorist activity.

Now for the bad news. I am told by several sources that there are debates at the highest levels about how law enforcement responded to all of this. One official told me that the plane could have posed a chemical or biological threat. It was small. It was slow-moving. Evacuating buildings in that situation, Wolf, is the last thing you want to do. You want to keep people inside. So officials have said there was a lot of reacting on the ground to assumptions and that that whole response is being debated at this time.

BLITZER: I can certainly understand that if there was a chemical or biological threat. But what if it's loaded with explosives.

ARENA: But that's the point, that no one knew exactly. And what one official said was even in that case, because it was a small aircraft, that the best thing to do, in hindsight, would have been to just get everybody to a more secure location, but remaining inside. Because if that was, say, you know, hooked up with a crop duster type piece of equipment, that would have been disastrous for the people that were outside.

BLITZER: If they were spraying it.

ARENA: That's right.

BLITZER: But if it was a huge amount of TNT in there, it would cause a big explosion like a car bomb.

ARENA: Yes. You could get those people to a more secure location still inside. So I think that we're going to see a lot of second-guessing and going over the procedures that were followed on the ground. In the air, everyone seems to be satisfied. But on the ground, some questions that are being raised.

BLITZER: All right. Good. And they should do that. They should do a complete post mortem on what they did right, what they may have done wrong. I wouldn't expect anything else. Thanks very much Kelli Arena for that.

And we'll have much more on Washington's red alert. With air space restricted, how did that small plane actually get so close to the White House? We'll go live to Maryland, Frederick, Maryland, where that small plane was forced down. Our Bob Franken is on the scene.

Also, what does the scare say about our preparedness? Our CNN correspondent analyst Richard Falkenrath, he is standing by to join us live.

And when to use force? We'll look at how the U.S. military decides when to actually shoot down a plane. This is a story that our Barbara Starr has. And it's a story you will see only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here in Washington, the U.S. Congress was in session when word came to evacuate Capitol Hill. Lawmakers dropped whatever they were doing and they got out quickly. So did our congressional correspondent Joe Johns. He's joining us live. What was it like, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a first-person account, Wolf, it was something like September 11 when there was an evacuation. It was something like the evacuation during the time when we were having the funeral for former President Ronald Reagan.

I was up in the Senate booth that serves the CNN office on Capitol Hill with CNN Senate producer Steve Turnham (ph), overheard someone in the hall saying they're evacuating the Senate floor. We looked up at the TV monitors and saw someone hustling people off the Senate floor. Said to Steve, get out, get out now. That's something you always say when one of these happens. I grabbed a go-bag (ph) that I've carried, in fact, since September 11, especially for this purpose and started trying to call CNN.

Walking out the door, I saw TV monitors that went to a slate that said something like, the Senate's in a short recess. Going out to the third floor, tourists streaming out of the Senate galleries, a huge rush but certainly under control. Capitol police were directing traffic and saying, you have two minutes to get out -- get out of the building -- and something about a plane. My first thought was, if this was a big plane, how will the police get out if they're still directing traffic? Raced down the stairs to the first floor, a line to get out of the doorway, a long line. I saw the Senate sergeant-at- arms and asked him what was going on. He held up two fingers, and said, two minutes, two minutes to get out.

If there was a big adrenaline rush for me and others down on the first floor, it was when I walked out the door and heard the very distinctive sound of aircraft overhead. My first thought was, the plane they were talking about has somehow gotten through the air defenses and all the people are not out of the building. As it turns out, of course, the plane actually had been moved around and headed toward Frederick, Maryland.

BLITZER: So, when you heard those jets roaring overhead, what was going through your mind, you were saying to yourself, this could be another 9/11?

JOHNS: Exactly. The first thing that went through my mind was, this plane is here and it's about to hit the building and we're all standing in the shadow of the United States Capitol. That was, of course, the big scare. And you always have situations like that, when there's excitement at the Capitol, when there's an evacuation -- it's not clear in front of you, the big picture, what's going on. That certainly happened today, Wolf.

BLITZER: Joe Johns, glad you're here, together, with everyone else, safe and sound. Appreciate it very much.

We now know the names of the pilot and the student pilot behind Washington's security scare. Our national correspondent Bob Franken is standing by, live. He's over at the airport in Frederick, Maryland, where the men were taken into custody. That's where that Cessna was forced to make the landing.

Set the scene for us, Bob. What's going on?

BOB FRANKEN: Well, how ironic it is that they were taken to the hangar, the area that belongs to the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, which is the lobbying organization, the headquarters of the lobbying organization, for small aircraft owners and operators.

Now, the people here, the experts say that there's some credibility to the story that these men did not know what they were doing with the no-fly zones, because the direct line from where they started, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to what is supposed to be their destination in Lumberton, North Carolina, would have taken them exactly where they were, since they apparently were not properly using their instruments, apparent to the people here.

Now, this is nothing new, that planes are landed in this area. This is just outside the 75-mile no-fly zone which rings Washington. There are two zones. There's the 75-mile zone, then there's the one that is much more critical, that 15-mile zone, 15 miles from the Capitol. Of course, we've been told that the people got within three miles of the Capitol. This was quite amazing.

Now, the plane was brought down here and was towed away. The men are still being held just across the grass over there at a law enforcement center. This is where people are taken. They were taken off the plane in handcuffs, taken over there. They're being questioned, we're told, by an alphabet soup of federal law enforcement agencies including the FBI, the Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, TSA, on and on -- the Federal Aviation Agency. There are people over there, each having their turn questioning these two pilots to find out if they are satisfied that this was an accident as opposed to something worse.

As for the plane, which is a small Cessna, it was sitting just in back of me on the tarmac for quite a while. It was towed away, put into a hangar. We have not been told what. So, there are a lot of unanswered questions, but many of those questions they hope to answer while they still are safely away from Washington here in Frederick. Wolf?

BLITZER: Any indications, Bob, there's going to be a news conference or statement by authorities where you are?

FRANKEN: Well, in fact, the word is emphatically not, no plans for a news conference. We, of course, are going to beg and whine and plead, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

BLITZER: Bob Franken on the scene for us in Frederick, Maryland. It's about 40 or 50 miles outside of Washington, D.C. Bob, thanks very much.

Thoughts of 9/11 were triggered today as the White House and Capitol Hill were evacuated. We'll take you there for a look at how it all played out.

Plus, when to shoot? How the U.S. military decides to take down a commercial plane with force.

And, caught up in the commotion, we'll hear from a U.S. senator who was inside the Capitol when the emergency began.

Tonight, "Defending the Skies," CNN special live coverage from Washington will begin, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It lasted only a few minutes but today's security alert in Washington was a vivid reminder of the threat of terrorism after the 9/11 attacks, exactly three years and eight months after the 9/11 attacks. Let's bring in CNN's Kathleen Koch. She's been following this story all day. Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was certainly a frightening moment for everyone involved because, I'm told that this was the closest an unauthorized aircraft has come to downtown Washington since 9/11. Though the FAA does say that this is really an example of the system that was set up at that point performing flawlessly. The system was actually improved after the incident last summer during President Ronald Reagan's funeral. You'll recall, that was when the plane carrying the Kentucky governor flew into restricted airspace with a broken transponder. Now, at that point, FAA controllers were talking with that plane, but no one else knew that, so there was the evacuation of Capitol Hill.

Now, since then, a new communication center was set up. So today everyone, the Pentagon, Homeland Security, FAA was on the same page looking at the same radar. So when this plane violated, first the outer 30-mile restricted area, that 30-mile limit and then finally the inner no-fly zone, coming to within three miles of the White House, it was simply a no-brainer.

The jets were scrambled, a Black Hawk helicopter sent to escort this plane down to the ground at Frederick Airport in Maryland. And this, say federal aviation officials, was really a text book example of how a such a potential threat is supposed to be handled. They say the system worked well. But they do want it to work even better because believe it or not small aircraft clip just the outer edges of the restricted no-fly zone, the outer limit, 30 miles out, roughly two dozen -- roughly one dozen times every week.

So, in about a week and a half, a new ground-based radar system will start operating around Washington. It was flash a series of light, it will be red, red and then green. They'll use that to catch pilots' attention day or night, alert them that they've gone astray. And hopefully they will then be able to avoid scrambling the fighter jets, very expensive prospect. And also avoid coming anywhere close to a shootdown. There you see that red and green series of lights. And hopefully they ---that will do the trick, Wolf. And depending upon the pilot's story today, they say that the pilot could either get sort of a reprimand, perhaps the suspension of a license, lose his license or also face major fine.

BLITZER: A lot of questions are being asked of that pilot right now. Thanks very much, Kathleen Koch, doing a good job as always for us.

The flares those F-16 fires -- fired are more than just a warning. According to the North American Aerospace Defense Command or NORAD, those flares convey a specific message. First pay attention and contact air traffic control immediately on a specific local frequency. Follow the interceptor's visual International Civil Aviation Organization signals. And finally non-compliance may result, as we know, in the use of force.

U.S. war planes that were scrambled during today's security alert could have fired at that intruding aircraft. Instead the Cessna 150 was escorted to that airport at Frederick, Maryland.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr takes a look at the life or death decision that has to be made when an unauthorized plane flies into a restricted area.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was just nine days ago that CNN visited Paul McHale in his fifth floor Pentagon office to talk about the very type of thing that happened today. A small plane is flying over restricted air space in Washington, D.C. It is just after 12:00 noon. And in McHale's office, the secure phone rings. As the first ever assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense, McHale listens briefly and then notifies other senior officials in the Pentagon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks, you have to get off the grounds now!

STARR: Aides keep him informed until the crisis passes. In the interview with CNN, McHale discussed the nightmare scenario, shooting down a commercial aircraft in the post-9/11 world.

PAUL MCHALE, ASST. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We train routinely for the sobering mission of shooting down a commercial airliner if that commercial airliner is commandeered by terrorists, as occurred on September the 11th. That's a chilling order. It's one that we -- we certainly hope no one ever has to give. But the president, the secretary of defense and others in the chain of command are prepared to make that very difficult decision if that decision is required to save an even greater number of American lives. The terrorists know that. And we believe that that has a deterrent effect, saying to the terrorists, if you commandeer an aircraft, you will likely be interdicted by F-16s and you won't make it to the target.

STARR: Fighter jets scrambled quickly to intercept this small aircraft. But it's just one scenario McHale worries about each morning when he begins his day at the Pentagon with an intelligence briefing on the latest threats. Terrorists using ports to bring a nuclear, chemical or biological device into the United States is a constant concern.

MCHALE: If we were to experience a domestic attack involving a weapon of mass destruction, there are highly trained Department of Defense personnel who are prepared to respond almost immediately to assist civilian authorities in beginning the remediation, the response to that attack.

STARR: McHale's office is within steps of where the airliner hit the Pentagon on 9/11, a fact never very far from his mind and at the forefront of his priorities.

MCHALE: 3,000 Americans died on that day because we were not fully prepared to defend our country. We're committed to the proposition that won't happen again.

STARR (on camera): This incident did not result in the nightmare decision to shoot a plane down. But the military now has the plans and procedures to do just that if it is ever required.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Barbara. For more on today's scare and what it means, we're joined by CNN security analyst Richard Falkenrath, he's a former White House deputy, Homeland Security advisor.

Richard, thanks very much.

Do you think everyone simply overreacted or did they do what they were supposed to do?

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I think people did what they were supposed to do. You know, we'll learn more about the response in the next few days. But as far as I can tell people did what they were supposed to. The system worked as it was designed particularly for the air defense side of it. The evacuation of the facilities here in Washington, that will be the subject, I think, of a little more second-guessing. But the air defense part seems to have gone just right.

BLITZER: Apparently this plane, according to the White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, got within three miles of the White House, a plane flying, even a small relatively slow moving plane like that, that doesn't give a lot of leeway before you decide to shoot down this plane.

FALKENRATH: That's right. The mathematics of air defense of the White House are very bad. Three miles away, and you're flying at 150 miles an hour, you're about 60 seconds, maybe 90 seconds from impact.

BLITZER: At what point do they shoot down the plane if it's continuously to move along that relatively slow speed, but as you say perhaps 60 seconds from impact?

FALKENRATH: Well, I think they were getting pretty close. And partly, you would also look at the altitude of the plane. So, if it was descending rapidly, I think it would be shot down much sooner. If it's staying at a high altitude, then it's a different calculation the military commanders would have to make. There the threat would be a biological or chemical release, not an impact on the ground. And so they were getting close, there's no question about that.

BLITZER: How much damage could a small Cessna like this, which is a pretty small plane, even assuming it's loaded with explosives, how much damage could that do to a building like the White House or the U.S. Capitol for that matter?

FALKENRATH: Well, this is a very small plane. This is the same size plane that crashed into the White House lawn in 1994. This is a...

BLITZER: That plane that made that landing on the South Lawn and sort of rolled up to the back of the White House?

FALKENRATH: Right, did a little bit of lawn damage. I mean, this is a very small plane. The plane itself would not do very much damage at all to a building. If it was loaded with some kind of weapon, it just depends on how big the weapon was. And here the maximum capacity of this plane is maybe 1,000, maybe 2,000 pounds. So, you're not going to get very much explosive into that. The threat of an impact here was relatively modest. Certainly nothing like the airliners that were hijacked on 9/11.

BLITZER: The whole point, though, is that you don't know if there chemical or biological agents on board a plane like that, and you have to worry about that worst case scenario.

FALKENRATH: That's right. Our officials are paid to assume the worst. They do not assume the best. They assume the absolute worst in a situation like this. And that's why from their vantage point their response was appropriate. They saw the inbound plane, it was deemed a threat, it had not responded to signals. It was getting very close, and so they made the decision to evacuate. You know, in hindsight maybe we can second-guess it. My sense is, they would do the exact same thing tomorrow.

BLITZER: All right, standby Richard, because our Kelli Arena, our justice correspondent has new developments she wants to report right now.

Kelli, what have you learned? KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just spoke to a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson who says that the two men have been interviewed. It has been determined that the intrusion into restricted air space was accidental. The statement says the plane and individuals were searched, nothing of interest was found. No charges have been sought -- are being sought at this time, Wolf. As you know, we talked before, and the two men could face possible civil fines by the FAA, but that is a long process, very procedural, lots of paperwork that has to be filled out. They could face up to $1,100 per civil violation. There may also be issues of suspension or revocation of a pilot's license, but that all has to be decided and probably won't be for a few days. But in terms of any criminal or possible terrorist activity, the men have been cleared and were sent home.

BLITZER: And this is amateur video that we saw of those F-16 fighter jets that had scrambled to intercept that plane. Kelli Arena breaking that story for us. The two intruders, the pilot, the student pilot, released now after serious questioning. Are you surprised that they were released, Richard, as quickly as has now happened only a few hours?

FALKENRATH: No, I'm not surprised. I'm also not surprised that it was a mistake. This has happened maybe a dozen times since 9/11, we've had a big violation of the no-fly zone around Washington. And it's all been people making mistakes of one kind or another. So, I'm not surprised. Also, it's not illegal. It's not a criminal violation what they did. It's mainly a civil violation of what they did. And so, they're probably not going to face criminal penalties as a result of this.

BLITZER: These two men are very, very lucky men that they're alive right now. They were presumably only seconds away from being dead. Thanks very much, Richard Falkenrath, for that.

Aerospace intruders -- how could two pilots end up in the Capital's no-fly zone to begin with? We'll have details on that.

Also, other news worth following, important news, including planning for your retirement, perhaps, without your pension. That's what thousands -- tens of thousands of people at United Airlines are facing. But how could that be? And what does it mean for you?

And later, other news we're following, including defending Michael Jackson. The actor Macauley Culkin testifying about his relationship with Michael Jackson. We'll tell you what he said. Stay with us.

Remember, tonight, please join Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, Larry King and Aaron Brown for "Defending the Skies," CNN's special live coverage from here in the nation's Capital. Our special will begin at 7:00 pm Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Today's events here in Washington are reviving questions about security safeguards involving civilian aviation. Phil Boyer's, is president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. He's joining us now live from Frederick, Maryland, where the plane responsible for today's alert was forced to land. Phil, thanks very much for joining us. What do you take -- what's your take on what has happened today? Because it affects a lot of people.

PHIL BOYER, AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Two pilots really screwed up.

BLITZER: Is it as simple as that? Because, as you know, it caused an enormous -- an enormous stir.

BOYER: Well, I would also say the system worked. The government took the actions it needed to when they had an unidentified aircraft. They identified that aircraft as a two-seat airplane, very low risk level in terms of being able to deliver any explosive capability. Contrary to what I have heard all afternoon, when you put two pilots in an airplane of this size, there's probably just enough fuel not even to make it to their destination that they can carry and little else.

It's a 1970s trainer. So it also showed that the government took the action it need to. A plane got further into air space than most of the airplanes that have these innocent intrusions of a larger swathe of air space. And they did not shoot it down.

BLITZER: What could be done to make sure this doesn't happen again? Because these two pilots...

BOYER: Wolf...

BLITZER: These two pilots and that small plane presumably only three miles from the White House. They were literally only seconds away from being shot down.

BOYER: Wolf, I wish I could give you an answer. No one -- no one, and no organization has worked harder since 9/11 to inform pilots of the air space here, put up programs on our Web site for, if you're going to make a flight around Washington or through Washington's area, here's how to do it, sends e-mails every time the president goes to Camp David or anywhere in the country. Last year we sent out 4 million e-mails to members.

There will be a temporary flight restriction in this area. And I just got off the phone before this interview with the president of the Flight Club. It's a -- ten people own this plane and it has a leader. And he said, I don't know how they didn't know, because you folks have been doing so much to inform us as to where air space is in this country.

BLITZER: Phil Boyer helping us better understand this very serious problem. Phil, thank you very much.

Let's check some other news we're following, important news happening around the world.

Afghan protests: when we come back, why thousands of people are staging violent demonstrations aimed against Americans.

Plus, taking a stand, actor Macauley Culkin testifying in favor of Michael Jackson. We'll go live to the courthouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now to Iraq where a major U.S. military operation continues near the Syrian border and insurgent attacks elsewhere targeting scores of Iraqi civilians, troops, and police officers.

In Tikrit, a car bomb at a busy intersection killed another 30 Iraqis. A group calling itself the Army of Ansar al Sunni claimed responsibility. This attack outside a police station in southern Baghdad killed three more Iraqis, and it was just one of six attacks in Baghdad today. Among the others, three Iraqi soldiers were killed when insurgents opened fire at a checkpoint in western Baghdad.

Get this: an explosion of rage in Afghanistan today, at least four people were killed and dozens injured. Thousands marched through the city of Jalalabad, protesting reports that U.S. interrogators at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba had desecrated copies of the Koran. Afghan officials say police fired at crowds who attacked government buildings and that U.S. troops fired in the air after their vehicles were attacked. The U.S. State Department says the Guantanamo allegations will be investigated.

Closer to home, one of the most anticipated witnesses yet in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial, actor Macauley Culkin testifying today.

CNN's Rusty Dornin joining us now with details. She's outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. What happened, Rusty?

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was actually a lot briefer than I think any of us expected. He was only on the stand about an hour. Culkin, saying absolutely not, no, never, when asked if he had ever been touched inappropriately or molested by Michael Jackson. Prosecutors tried to press him on it, claiming maybe something happened while he was asleep. He said, look, I've -- that's very unlikely that would've happened. He also said he slept at other places at Neverland besides Michael Jackson's bed and that he really didn't think it could've happened.

But, following him, the security guard came on briefly for some testimony, but really, what we've been watching this afternoon that has been absolutely fascinating has been a video of living with Michael Jackson, the outtakes, where Jackson is -- comes across -- you know, it's the first time the jury's really hearing him speak -- it may be the only time they really hear him continuously talking about his childhood, and that sort of thing -- coming across as being isolated and lonely, but they also hear him, perhaps, lie, saying he's never touched alcohol. He asked -- Martin Bashir, the documentarian -- do you drink Jesus juice or wine, of course, and that's what the witnesses say that he refers to alcohol as, as Jesus juice.

So, some very interesting things coming out. It looks like in the defense's favor, that they're learning more about Michael Jackson, but that the bad thing is perhaps they might be hearing what they might think might be lies. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Rusty Dornin, updating us on the Michael Jackson trial. Thank you, Rusty.

Pension plans pulled, a major U.S. airlines wins the right to default on paying employees their pensions. Why is it happening and could it happen to you?

Don't forget, coming up later tonight, "Defending the Skies," CNN special live coverage, beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, a little bit more than an hour or so from now.

But first, as part of CNN's 25th anniversary series "Then and Now," CNN Aaron Brown brings us the story of James Rubin..

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES RUBIN: Our position on this issue is clear and long- standing.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: A way with words and a knack for policy. James Rubin, Jamie, was known as Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's right-hand man. He served as a popular but tough State Department spokesman for three years and a top Albright advisor for even longer.

RUBIN: As a boss, I would have to say it would be hard to imagine a more inspiring and better friend than Madeleine Albright.

BROWN: Until he suddenly left diplomacy in April of 2000 to become a full-time dad.

RUBIN: Raising a kid is about as difficult a thing as can be, but it's a great thing, too. So, it's exhilarating, but often frustrating.

BROWN: Jamie Rubin now will lives in London with his wife, CNN correspondent Christiane Amanpour, and their 5-year-old son Darius. He teaches at the London School of Economics, and frequently appears on television as a guest analyst. Most recently, he worked on the Wesley Clark and John Kerry presidential campaigns. Rubin says he hopes to return to politics one day, but not elected office.

RUBIN: That place where politics and foreign policy meet is the place I'm happiest and most fulfilled.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Thousands of United Airlines workers are being forced to rethink their retirement plans. CNN's Alan Chernoff has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After layoffs and wage cuts at United Airlines, now this: employees and retirees would suffer reductions in their pensions as part of the latest plan to save the bankrupt airline.

DIANNE TAMUK, ASSN. OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: I'm devastated. It's terrible. I can't believe that they would allow this to happen to the employees, the front-line employees of this airline, and then expect us to go out on the line tomorrow and have -- make passengers want to come back and fly United again.

CHERNOFF: The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, created but not financially backed by the federal government, would take over United's four pension plans, but would pay out only about two-thirds of what is owed to plan members.

BRADLEY BELT, EXEC. DIR, PBGC: That's the tragedy in this situation, is that, it is the case that some employees and retirees will inevitably be cut back in the promises that they've been promised by the company.

CHERNOFF: A retiree at age 65 can receive no more than $45,600 a year from the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. That means veteran pilots with hefty pensions would suffer the deepest cuts. Lower paid flight attendants would see smaller reductions. United's machinist union plans to appeal the court decision, and union members have voted to strike if the bankruptcy court also OKs United's effort to scrap the contract to oppose wage and benefit cuts.

United, Wednesday, said it suffered an operating loss of $250 million in the first quarter, more proof, executives offered, the harsh measures are necessary to pull the airlines out of a financial tailspin.

JAKE BRACE, CFD, UNITED AIRLINES: We are doing what we need to do to make United Airlines successful for the long term. That's what we've been focused on the entire case. That's what this is all about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHERNOFF (on camera): United could save billions by passing its pension responsibility to the federal government, and that savings may lead competing airlines to follow suit in their effort to reach financial stability. Wolf?

BLITZER: Alan Chernoff, reporting. Thanks very much..

That's it for me. Please stay with CNN for complete coverage of all of today's dramatic developments in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

END

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 11, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now, a full scale investigation underway. At the center of that investigation this small plane. And how and why it penetrated restricted airspace over the nations capital.
Standby for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Red alert, sudden and scary evacuation of the white house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the Secret Service agents told me, "Run, this is no joke. Leave the ground."

And Capitol Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is telling you run, run, run, and all that, unlike last time where they're saying take your shoes off, run for your life.

BLITZER: Intruder -- a small plane reaches the no-fly zone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the pilot was not responding.

BLITZER: Fighter jets are scrambled over the city.

How did it happen, and what happens next?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, May 11th, 2005.

BLITZER: Thanks for joining us.

The security scare tops our security watch. It was brief, but it certainly left hearts beating harder across the nation. And once again, it sent the nation's capital into controlled chaos. A small plane came within three miles of the White House and tested defenses developed since 9/11. We'll go live to our correspondents, who, themselves, were caught up in the drama.

Suzanne Malveaux is over at the White House.

Joe Johns is up on Capitol Hill. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, will tell us about the military's quick response.

But we begin with CNN's Brian Todd, who brings up to date on the day's dramatic events -- Brian.

BRAIN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the day's events are centered around a critical span of about 15 minutes, when the restricted air space over Washington, D.C., was breached.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): The alerts come suddenly and almost simultaneously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, let's go.

TODD: At just about the stroke of noon, word that Washington centers of power are being evacuated. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux calls in as she's rushed across the street to Lafayette Park.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's been quite a bit of commotion. One of the Secret Service agents told me, "Run, this is no joke. Leave the grounds."

TODD: White House officials had gotten word of a threat just minutes earlier.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: At approximately 11:59, the threat level here at the White House was raised to yellow. There was a Cessna plane within about 15 miles of the White House. It was north of the White House.

TODD: What seems like just seconds after the first alerts, a roar is heard over the city.

MCCLELLAN: Around noon, fighter jets were scrambled. At approximately 12:01, the threat level was raised to orange. The plane was within 10 miles, and an evacuation and moving of people to more secure locations began at that point.

TODD: Within a few nail-biting minutes, the White House, Supreme Court, the Capitol and its adjacent office buildings cleared out.

CHIEF TERRANCE GAINER, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: We began the evacuation of the Capitol at about four minutes after 12:00. It took us about five or six minutes to entirely empty the Capitol. We're happy to report that there were no serious injuries.

TODD: All this time, the two F-16s and a Black Hawk helicopter are tracking this small private plane that eventually comes within three miles of the White House.

MCCLELLAN: The pilot was not responding to efforts to communicate with the plane. And then, at 12:03, the alert level was raised to red.

TODD: In an eventful eight minutes, the plane is confronted. Former CNN anchor Bernard Shaw witnesses the scene.

BERNARD SHAW, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: What I saw were two F-16 jets and they were circling overhead, circling a single-engine plane. And the jet fighter pilots were banking very quickly. And I saw them fire two warning flares in the direction of the single engine plane.

TODD: The U.S. military later says four flares were fired. The fighter jets had finally gotten the pilot's attention.

MCCLELLAN: And at approximately 12:11, the alert level went back down to yellow. The plane at that point was turning west and traveling away from the White House and Capitol.

TODD: The all-clear is given roughly 15 minutes after the first alerts. The plane is escorted to a small airport in Frederick, Maryland. The pilot and another man taken into custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: A very intense reminder of what happened in this city and New York nearly four years ago. Now, during all this, the Pentagon and the State Department were not evacuated. Pentagon officials would given no immediate explanation. At the State Department, officials said they were considering whether to evacuate when the all clear was given -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Thanks, Brian, very much.

Lets go over to the White House now. Our correspondent Suzanne Malveaux was inside when the urgent order was announced, the order being get out. Tell our viewers what it was like that split second, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, it was quite chaotic. A lot of confusion that happened. We were in our basement office in the White House, and that is when me and my producer Matt Burnly (ph), we heard that there was something that was taking place outside. I grabbed my press ID and my cell phone, went running outside. And the scene that we saw outside, again, very confusing.

There were uniformed Secret Service agents as well as the emergency response teams, the people who you see with their guns drawn. And essentially was given a choice here. They said, either stay in the building or get off the grounds. That was what they were telling me. And I was trying to clarify do they need us back in the building or to leave. And then that is when one uniformed Secret Service agent made the decision for me when he yelled "This is no joke, get off the grounds and run."

And that is when they started escorting us across the north lawn. That is when at the same time I saw the vice president's motorcade leaving from the West Executive Drive very, very quickly, off the White House grounds. Also at the same time, while heading across the lawn, that is when I heard one of those fighter jets overhead. We could hear the roar of the fighter jet overhead still heading towards the gate. That is when we were escorted away. And they kept yelling to move across Pennsylvania Avenue, across Lafayette Park, to get as far away as possible as quickly as possible. This whole thing, Wolf, ended just about 15 minutes later. That is when we got the all clear.

A lot of questions to Scott McClellan this afternoon in the briefing, trying to clear up what kind of notification was given. I have to tell you there were some people who were inside the briefing room that never got word that there was an evacuation. Some crew members were actually eating their lunches, never realized what was actually going on. We asked them whether or not they thought security protocol was followed. They said they were very confident that it was.

We saw the president just several hours later. He was before the cameras, and he refused to answer questions to clear up just what had happened with this incident, including whether or not he was faced with the decision of having to shoot down that plane if in fact it got any closer to the White House. It was just three miles away. White House spokesman Scott McClellan saying, there's no indication that it got to the point where he'd have to give that kind of order. But, again, Wolf, still many unanswered questions.

BLITZER: The president was not at the White House at the time. He was off riding his bike, exercising in suburban, Maryland at a park. Suzanne Malveaux reporting for us. Thanks very much.

Within a minute of the first alert the U.S. military was scrambling a pair of fighter jets, and just as quickly they were roaring over the Capitol. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, while this incident ended without the need for any lethal force, it underscored that the U.S. military is ready to take action when there's an intrusion into the restricted air space over Washington. As you said, the first alert came about 10 minutes of noon, when they first got word that that Cessna aircraft had crossed into restricted air space.

The U.S. F-16s that intercepted it from nearby Andrews Air Force Base are on what's called 15-minute strip alert. That means they have to be able to launch in 15 minutes or less. In this case, it appears to be less. By the time they got over and intercepted that plane, these F-16s from the D.C. Air National Guard discovered that the small prop plane was not responding to their attempts to contact it. It was not emitting the correct frequency on its transponder. And so they eventually dropped flares to get the plane's attention, diverting it to the west when it was about three miles away from the White House.

Now, since September 11th, the procedures have been changed so it's not just the president or the vice president that can order the shoot-down of a civilian plane. They now have a -- what they call a limited chain of command that goes through the Defense Secretary, through the four-star commander of the U.S. Northern Command, a newly created command since September 11th, and even down to the level of some of his deputies at the three and two-star rank, who could make that decision if there's not enough time to consult the president.

As you said, in this case, the president was riding a bicycle. He still was in communication. And Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon. We're told that he was engaged in the situation and he was also in a position to make a decision if necessary. But it didn't come to that -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Fortunately, it didn't. Thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

And to our viewers, please stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security. Two men now in custody after their small plane triggered that full-blown evacuation in the nation's Capital at Capitol Hill and the White House. Just who are these two men and what were their intentions? There are new developments in this investigation. Our Kelli Arena standing by with that.

Forced down: we'll take you live to Frederick, Maryland, where the Cessna was escorted to the ground.

And shootdown in the skies: how the military eventually decides whether or not to bring a plane down by force. We'll have a story you will see only on CNN. We'll be right back.

And tonight, by the way, don't forget to join Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, Larry King and Aaron Brown for "Defending the Skies," CNN's special live coverage from Washington D.C. -- all the special coverage will begin tonight 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our special coverage of today's security alert here in Washington with a look at the investigation, now. And the two men now in custody who flew a small plane within only three miles of the White House.

Let's bring in our CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena. What are you learning, Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf. Federal agents from both the Secret Service and the FBI detained and interviewed the two men to find out why they entered that restricted air space and why they did not respond to communications to leave it. Federal officials confirm that one of the men, Jim Schaffer, is a pilot. He was accompanied by Troy Martin, a student pilot.

Now, according to a friend of those men, they are members of the Vintage Aero Club based in Smoketown, Pennsylvania. And the Cessna that they were flying is owned by that group.

Friends say that the men were heading to an air show in North Carolina. And say that they're sure that the men flew into the restricted air space accidentally. Now officials that we've spoken to say even if there were no criminal intent, that the men could face civil penalties and fines up to $1,100 per violation.

So, now, with a could those include? Well, violations could be things like entering the restricted air space in the first place, or ignoring notification about restricted air space around the nation. The pilot could also have his license suspended or revoked. And the range for suspension is normally about 30 to 90 days per violation.

There's no official word yet from the FBI or Secret Service about what they learned in those interviews, but officials hear in Washington have told us that there's no information suggesting that the men were involved in any type of criminal or terrorist activity.

Now for the bad news. I am told by several sources that there are debates at the highest levels about how law enforcement responded to all of this. One official told me that the plane could have posed a chemical or biological threat. It was small. It was slow-moving. Evacuating buildings in that situation, Wolf, is the last thing you want to do. You want to keep people inside. So officials have said there was a lot of reacting on the ground to assumptions and that that whole response is being debated at this time.

BLITZER: I can certainly understand that if there was a chemical or biological threat. But what if it's loaded with explosives.

ARENA: But that's the point, that no one knew exactly. And what one official said was even in that case, because it was a small aircraft, that the best thing to do, in hindsight, would have been to just get everybody to a more secure location, but remaining inside. Because if that was, say, you know, hooked up with a crop duster type piece of equipment, that would have been disastrous for the people that were outside.

BLITZER: If they were spraying it.

ARENA: That's right.

BLITZER: But if it was a huge amount of TNT in there, it would cause a big explosion like a car bomb.

ARENA: Yes. You could get those people to a more secure location still inside. So I think that we're going to see a lot of second-guessing and going over the procedures that were followed on the ground. In the air, everyone seems to be satisfied. But on the ground, some questions that are being raised.

BLITZER: All right. Good. And they should do that. They should do a complete post mortem on what they did right, what they may have done wrong. I wouldn't expect anything else. Thanks very much Kelli Arena for that.

And we'll have much more on Washington's red alert. With air space restricted, how did that small plane actually get so close to the White House? We'll go live to Maryland, Frederick, Maryland, where that small plane was forced down. Our Bob Franken is on the scene.

Also, what does the scare say about our preparedness? Our CNN correspondent analyst Richard Falkenrath, he is standing by to join us live.

And when to use force? We'll look at how the U.S. military decides when to actually shoot down a plane. This is a story that our Barbara Starr has. And it's a story you will see only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here in Washington, the U.S. Congress was in session when word came to evacuate Capitol Hill. Lawmakers dropped whatever they were doing and they got out quickly. So did our congressional correspondent Joe Johns. He's joining us live. What was it like, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a first-person account, Wolf, it was something like September 11 when there was an evacuation. It was something like the evacuation during the time when we were having the funeral for former President Ronald Reagan.

I was up in the Senate booth that serves the CNN office on Capitol Hill with CNN Senate producer Steve Turnham (ph), overheard someone in the hall saying they're evacuating the Senate floor. We looked up at the TV monitors and saw someone hustling people off the Senate floor. Said to Steve, get out, get out now. That's something you always say when one of these happens. I grabbed a go-bag (ph) that I've carried, in fact, since September 11, especially for this purpose and started trying to call CNN.

Walking out the door, I saw TV monitors that went to a slate that said something like, the Senate's in a short recess. Going out to the third floor, tourists streaming out of the Senate galleries, a huge rush but certainly under control. Capitol police were directing traffic and saying, you have two minutes to get out -- get out of the building -- and something about a plane. My first thought was, if this was a big plane, how will the police get out if they're still directing traffic? Raced down the stairs to the first floor, a line to get out of the doorway, a long line. I saw the Senate sergeant-at- arms and asked him what was going on. He held up two fingers, and said, two minutes, two minutes to get out.

If there was a big adrenaline rush for me and others down on the first floor, it was when I walked out the door and heard the very distinctive sound of aircraft overhead. My first thought was, the plane they were talking about has somehow gotten through the air defenses and all the people are not out of the building. As it turns out, of course, the plane actually had been moved around and headed toward Frederick, Maryland.

BLITZER: So, when you heard those jets roaring overhead, what was going through your mind, you were saying to yourself, this could be another 9/11?

JOHNS: Exactly. The first thing that went through my mind was, this plane is here and it's about to hit the building and we're all standing in the shadow of the United States Capitol. That was, of course, the big scare. And you always have situations like that, when there's excitement at the Capitol, when there's an evacuation -- it's not clear in front of you, the big picture, what's going on. That certainly happened today, Wolf.

BLITZER: Joe Johns, glad you're here, together, with everyone else, safe and sound. Appreciate it very much.

We now know the names of the pilot and the student pilot behind Washington's security scare. Our national correspondent Bob Franken is standing by, live. He's over at the airport in Frederick, Maryland, where the men were taken into custody. That's where that Cessna was forced to make the landing.

Set the scene for us, Bob. What's going on?

BOB FRANKEN: Well, how ironic it is that they were taken to the hangar, the area that belongs to the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, which is the lobbying organization, the headquarters of the lobbying organization, for small aircraft owners and operators.

Now, the people here, the experts say that there's some credibility to the story that these men did not know what they were doing with the no-fly zones, because the direct line from where they started, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to what is supposed to be their destination in Lumberton, North Carolina, would have taken them exactly where they were, since they apparently were not properly using their instruments, apparent to the people here.

Now, this is nothing new, that planes are landed in this area. This is just outside the 75-mile no-fly zone which rings Washington. There are two zones. There's the 75-mile zone, then there's the one that is much more critical, that 15-mile zone, 15 miles from the Capitol. Of course, we've been told that the people got within three miles of the Capitol. This was quite amazing.

Now, the plane was brought down here and was towed away. The men are still being held just across the grass over there at a law enforcement center. This is where people are taken. They were taken off the plane in handcuffs, taken over there. They're being questioned, we're told, by an alphabet soup of federal law enforcement agencies including the FBI, the Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, TSA, on and on -- the Federal Aviation Agency. There are people over there, each having their turn questioning these two pilots to find out if they are satisfied that this was an accident as opposed to something worse.

As for the plane, which is a small Cessna, it was sitting just in back of me on the tarmac for quite a while. It was towed away, put into a hangar. We have not been told what. So, there are a lot of unanswered questions, but many of those questions they hope to answer while they still are safely away from Washington here in Frederick. Wolf?

BLITZER: Any indications, Bob, there's going to be a news conference or statement by authorities where you are?

FRANKEN: Well, in fact, the word is emphatically not, no plans for a news conference. We, of course, are going to beg and whine and plead, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

BLITZER: Bob Franken on the scene for us in Frederick, Maryland. It's about 40 or 50 miles outside of Washington, D.C. Bob, thanks very much.

Thoughts of 9/11 were triggered today as the White House and Capitol Hill were evacuated. We'll take you there for a look at how it all played out.

Plus, when to shoot? How the U.S. military decides to take down a commercial plane with force.

And, caught up in the commotion, we'll hear from a U.S. senator who was inside the Capitol when the emergency began.

Tonight, "Defending the Skies," CNN special live coverage from Washington will begin, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It lasted only a few minutes but today's security alert in Washington was a vivid reminder of the threat of terrorism after the 9/11 attacks, exactly three years and eight months after the 9/11 attacks. Let's bring in CNN's Kathleen Koch. She's been following this story all day. Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was certainly a frightening moment for everyone involved because, I'm told that this was the closest an unauthorized aircraft has come to downtown Washington since 9/11. Though the FAA does say that this is really an example of the system that was set up at that point performing flawlessly. The system was actually improved after the incident last summer during President Ronald Reagan's funeral. You'll recall, that was when the plane carrying the Kentucky governor flew into restricted airspace with a broken transponder. Now, at that point, FAA controllers were talking with that plane, but no one else knew that, so there was the evacuation of Capitol Hill.

Now, since then, a new communication center was set up. So today everyone, the Pentagon, Homeland Security, FAA was on the same page looking at the same radar. So when this plane violated, first the outer 30-mile restricted area, that 30-mile limit and then finally the inner no-fly zone, coming to within three miles of the White House, it was simply a no-brainer.

The jets were scrambled, a Black Hawk helicopter sent to escort this plane down to the ground at Frederick Airport in Maryland. And this, say federal aviation officials, was really a text book example of how a such a potential threat is supposed to be handled. They say the system worked well. But they do want it to work even better because believe it or not small aircraft clip just the outer edges of the restricted no-fly zone, the outer limit, 30 miles out, roughly two dozen -- roughly one dozen times every week.

So, in about a week and a half, a new ground-based radar system will start operating around Washington. It was flash a series of light, it will be red, red and then green. They'll use that to catch pilots' attention day or night, alert them that they've gone astray. And hopefully they will then be able to avoid scrambling the fighter jets, very expensive prospect. And also avoid coming anywhere close to a shootdown. There you see that red and green series of lights. And hopefully they ---that will do the trick, Wolf. And depending upon the pilot's story today, they say that the pilot could either get sort of a reprimand, perhaps the suspension of a license, lose his license or also face major fine.

BLITZER: A lot of questions are being asked of that pilot right now. Thanks very much, Kathleen Koch, doing a good job as always for us.

The flares those F-16 fires -- fired are more than just a warning. According to the North American Aerospace Defense Command or NORAD, those flares convey a specific message. First pay attention and contact air traffic control immediately on a specific local frequency. Follow the interceptor's visual International Civil Aviation Organization signals. And finally non-compliance may result, as we know, in the use of force.

U.S. war planes that were scrambled during today's security alert could have fired at that intruding aircraft. Instead the Cessna 150 was escorted to that airport at Frederick, Maryland.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr takes a look at the life or death decision that has to be made when an unauthorized plane flies into a restricted area.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was just nine days ago that CNN visited Paul McHale in his fifth floor Pentagon office to talk about the very type of thing that happened today. A small plane is flying over restricted air space in Washington, D.C. It is just after 12:00 noon. And in McHale's office, the secure phone rings. As the first ever assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense, McHale listens briefly and then notifies other senior officials in the Pentagon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks, you have to get off the grounds now!

STARR: Aides keep him informed until the crisis passes. In the interview with CNN, McHale discussed the nightmare scenario, shooting down a commercial aircraft in the post-9/11 world.

PAUL MCHALE, ASST. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We train routinely for the sobering mission of shooting down a commercial airliner if that commercial airliner is commandeered by terrorists, as occurred on September the 11th. That's a chilling order. It's one that we -- we certainly hope no one ever has to give. But the president, the secretary of defense and others in the chain of command are prepared to make that very difficult decision if that decision is required to save an even greater number of American lives. The terrorists know that. And we believe that that has a deterrent effect, saying to the terrorists, if you commandeer an aircraft, you will likely be interdicted by F-16s and you won't make it to the target.

STARR: Fighter jets scrambled quickly to intercept this small aircraft. But it's just one scenario McHale worries about each morning when he begins his day at the Pentagon with an intelligence briefing on the latest threats. Terrorists using ports to bring a nuclear, chemical or biological device into the United States is a constant concern.

MCHALE: If we were to experience a domestic attack involving a weapon of mass destruction, there are highly trained Department of Defense personnel who are prepared to respond almost immediately to assist civilian authorities in beginning the remediation, the response to that attack.

STARR: McHale's office is within steps of where the airliner hit the Pentagon on 9/11, a fact never very far from his mind and at the forefront of his priorities.

MCHALE: 3,000 Americans died on that day because we were not fully prepared to defend our country. We're committed to the proposition that won't happen again.

STARR (on camera): This incident did not result in the nightmare decision to shoot a plane down. But the military now has the plans and procedures to do just that if it is ever required.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Barbara. For more on today's scare and what it means, we're joined by CNN security analyst Richard Falkenrath, he's a former White House deputy, Homeland Security advisor.

Richard, thanks very much.

Do you think everyone simply overreacted or did they do what they were supposed to do?

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I think people did what they were supposed to do. You know, we'll learn more about the response in the next few days. But as far as I can tell people did what they were supposed to. The system worked as it was designed particularly for the air defense side of it. The evacuation of the facilities here in Washington, that will be the subject, I think, of a little more second-guessing. But the air defense part seems to have gone just right.

BLITZER: Apparently this plane, according to the White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, got within three miles of the White House, a plane flying, even a small relatively slow moving plane like that, that doesn't give a lot of leeway before you decide to shoot down this plane.

FALKENRATH: That's right. The mathematics of air defense of the White House are very bad. Three miles away, and you're flying at 150 miles an hour, you're about 60 seconds, maybe 90 seconds from impact.

BLITZER: At what point do they shoot down the plane if it's continuously to move along that relatively slow speed, but as you say perhaps 60 seconds from impact?

FALKENRATH: Well, I think they were getting pretty close. And partly, you would also look at the altitude of the plane. So, if it was descending rapidly, I think it would be shot down much sooner. If it's staying at a high altitude, then it's a different calculation the military commanders would have to make. There the threat would be a biological or chemical release, not an impact on the ground. And so they were getting close, there's no question about that.

BLITZER: How much damage could a small Cessna like this, which is a pretty small plane, even assuming it's loaded with explosives, how much damage could that do to a building like the White House or the U.S. Capitol for that matter?

FALKENRATH: Well, this is a very small plane. This is the same size plane that crashed into the White House lawn in 1994. This is a...

BLITZER: That plane that made that landing on the South Lawn and sort of rolled up to the back of the White House?

FALKENRATH: Right, did a little bit of lawn damage. I mean, this is a very small plane. The plane itself would not do very much damage at all to a building. If it was loaded with some kind of weapon, it just depends on how big the weapon was. And here the maximum capacity of this plane is maybe 1,000, maybe 2,000 pounds. So, you're not going to get very much explosive into that. The threat of an impact here was relatively modest. Certainly nothing like the airliners that were hijacked on 9/11.

BLITZER: The whole point, though, is that you don't know if there chemical or biological agents on board a plane like that, and you have to worry about that worst case scenario.

FALKENRATH: That's right. Our officials are paid to assume the worst. They do not assume the best. They assume the absolute worst in a situation like this. And that's why from their vantage point their response was appropriate. They saw the inbound plane, it was deemed a threat, it had not responded to signals. It was getting very close, and so they made the decision to evacuate. You know, in hindsight maybe we can second-guess it. My sense is, they would do the exact same thing tomorrow.

BLITZER: All right, standby Richard, because our Kelli Arena, our justice correspondent has new developments she wants to report right now.

Kelli, what have you learned? KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just spoke to a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson who says that the two men have been interviewed. It has been determined that the intrusion into restricted air space was accidental. The statement says the plane and individuals were searched, nothing of interest was found. No charges have been sought -- are being sought at this time, Wolf. As you know, we talked before, and the two men could face possible civil fines by the FAA, but that is a long process, very procedural, lots of paperwork that has to be filled out. They could face up to $1,100 per civil violation. There may also be issues of suspension or revocation of a pilot's license, but that all has to be decided and probably won't be for a few days. But in terms of any criminal or possible terrorist activity, the men have been cleared and were sent home.

BLITZER: And this is amateur video that we saw of those F-16 fighter jets that had scrambled to intercept that plane. Kelli Arena breaking that story for us. The two intruders, the pilot, the student pilot, released now after serious questioning. Are you surprised that they were released, Richard, as quickly as has now happened only a few hours?

FALKENRATH: No, I'm not surprised. I'm also not surprised that it was a mistake. This has happened maybe a dozen times since 9/11, we've had a big violation of the no-fly zone around Washington. And it's all been people making mistakes of one kind or another. So, I'm not surprised. Also, it's not illegal. It's not a criminal violation what they did. It's mainly a civil violation of what they did. And so, they're probably not going to face criminal penalties as a result of this.

BLITZER: These two men are very, very lucky men that they're alive right now. They were presumably only seconds away from being dead. Thanks very much, Richard Falkenrath, for that.

Aerospace intruders -- how could two pilots end up in the Capital's no-fly zone to begin with? We'll have details on that.

Also, other news worth following, important news, including planning for your retirement, perhaps, without your pension. That's what thousands -- tens of thousands of people at United Airlines are facing. But how could that be? And what does it mean for you?

And later, other news we're following, including defending Michael Jackson. The actor Macauley Culkin testifying about his relationship with Michael Jackson. We'll tell you what he said. Stay with us.

Remember, tonight, please join Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, Larry King and Aaron Brown for "Defending the Skies," CNN's special live coverage from here in the nation's Capital. Our special will begin at 7:00 pm Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Today's events here in Washington are reviving questions about security safeguards involving civilian aviation. Phil Boyer's, is president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. He's joining us now live from Frederick, Maryland, where the plane responsible for today's alert was forced to land. Phil, thanks very much for joining us. What do you take -- what's your take on what has happened today? Because it affects a lot of people.

PHIL BOYER, AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Two pilots really screwed up.

BLITZER: Is it as simple as that? Because, as you know, it caused an enormous -- an enormous stir.

BOYER: Well, I would also say the system worked. The government took the actions it needed to when they had an unidentified aircraft. They identified that aircraft as a two-seat airplane, very low risk level in terms of being able to deliver any explosive capability. Contrary to what I have heard all afternoon, when you put two pilots in an airplane of this size, there's probably just enough fuel not even to make it to their destination that they can carry and little else.

It's a 1970s trainer. So it also showed that the government took the action it need to. A plane got further into air space than most of the airplanes that have these innocent intrusions of a larger swathe of air space. And they did not shoot it down.

BLITZER: What could be done to make sure this doesn't happen again? Because these two pilots...

BOYER: Wolf...

BLITZER: These two pilots and that small plane presumably only three miles from the White House. They were literally only seconds away from being shot down.

BOYER: Wolf, I wish I could give you an answer. No one -- no one, and no organization has worked harder since 9/11 to inform pilots of the air space here, put up programs on our Web site for, if you're going to make a flight around Washington or through Washington's area, here's how to do it, sends e-mails every time the president goes to Camp David or anywhere in the country. Last year we sent out 4 million e-mails to members.

There will be a temporary flight restriction in this area. And I just got off the phone before this interview with the president of the Flight Club. It's a -- ten people own this plane and it has a leader. And he said, I don't know how they didn't know, because you folks have been doing so much to inform us as to where air space is in this country.

BLITZER: Phil Boyer helping us better understand this very serious problem. Phil, thank you very much.

Let's check some other news we're following, important news happening around the world.

Afghan protests: when we come back, why thousands of people are staging violent demonstrations aimed against Americans.

Plus, taking a stand, actor Macauley Culkin testifying in favor of Michael Jackson. We'll go live to the courthouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now to Iraq where a major U.S. military operation continues near the Syrian border and insurgent attacks elsewhere targeting scores of Iraqi civilians, troops, and police officers.

In Tikrit, a car bomb at a busy intersection killed another 30 Iraqis. A group calling itself the Army of Ansar al Sunni claimed responsibility. This attack outside a police station in southern Baghdad killed three more Iraqis, and it was just one of six attacks in Baghdad today. Among the others, three Iraqi soldiers were killed when insurgents opened fire at a checkpoint in western Baghdad.

Get this: an explosion of rage in Afghanistan today, at least four people were killed and dozens injured. Thousands marched through the city of Jalalabad, protesting reports that U.S. interrogators at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba had desecrated copies of the Koran. Afghan officials say police fired at crowds who attacked government buildings and that U.S. troops fired in the air after their vehicles were attacked. The U.S. State Department says the Guantanamo allegations will be investigated.

Closer to home, one of the most anticipated witnesses yet in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial, actor Macauley Culkin testifying today.

CNN's Rusty Dornin joining us now with details. She's outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. What happened, Rusty?

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was actually a lot briefer than I think any of us expected. He was only on the stand about an hour. Culkin, saying absolutely not, no, never, when asked if he had ever been touched inappropriately or molested by Michael Jackson. Prosecutors tried to press him on it, claiming maybe something happened while he was asleep. He said, look, I've -- that's very unlikely that would've happened. He also said he slept at other places at Neverland besides Michael Jackson's bed and that he really didn't think it could've happened.

But, following him, the security guard came on briefly for some testimony, but really, what we've been watching this afternoon that has been absolutely fascinating has been a video of living with Michael Jackson, the outtakes, where Jackson is -- comes across -- you know, it's the first time the jury's really hearing him speak -- it may be the only time they really hear him continuously talking about his childhood, and that sort of thing -- coming across as being isolated and lonely, but they also hear him, perhaps, lie, saying he's never touched alcohol. He asked -- Martin Bashir, the documentarian -- do you drink Jesus juice or wine, of course, and that's what the witnesses say that he refers to alcohol as, as Jesus juice.

So, some very interesting things coming out. It looks like in the defense's favor, that they're learning more about Michael Jackson, but that the bad thing is perhaps they might be hearing what they might think might be lies. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Rusty Dornin, updating us on the Michael Jackson trial. Thank you, Rusty.

Pension plans pulled, a major U.S. airlines wins the right to default on paying employees their pensions. Why is it happening and could it happen to you?

Don't forget, coming up later tonight, "Defending the Skies," CNN special live coverage, beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, a little bit more than an hour or so from now.

But first, as part of CNN's 25th anniversary series "Then and Now," CNN Aaron Brown brings us the story of James Rubin..

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES RUBIN: Our position on this issue is clear and long- standing.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: A way with words and a knack for policy. James Rubin, Jamie, was known as Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's right-hand man. He served as a popular but tough State Department spokesman for three years and a top Albright advisor for even longer.

RUBIN: As a boss, I would have to say it would be hard to imagine a more inspiring and better friend than Madeleine Albright.

BROWN: Until he suddenly left diplomacy in April of 2000 to become a full-time dad.

RUBIN: Raising a kid is about as difficult a thing as can be, but it's a great thing, too. So, it's exhilarating, but often frustrating.

BROWN: Jamie Rubin now will lives in London with his wife, CNN correspondent Christiane Amanpour, and their 5-year-old son Darius. He teaches at the London School of Economics, and frequently appears on television as a guest analyst. Most recently, he worked on the Wesley Clark and John Kerry presidential campaigns. Rubin says he hopes to return to politics one day, but not elected office.

RUBIN: That place where politics and foreign policy meet is the place I'm happiest and most fulfilled.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Thousands of United Airlines workers are being forced to rethink their retirement plans. CNN's Alan Chernoff has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After layoffs and wage cuts at United Airlines, now this: employees and retirees would suffer reductions in their pensions as part of the latest plan to save the bankrupt airline.

DIANNE TAMUK, ASSN. OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: I'm devastated. It's terrible. I can't believe that they would allow this to happen to the employees, the front-line employees of this airline, and then expect us to go out on the line tomorrow and have -- make passengers want to come back and fly United again.

CHERNOFF: The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, created but not financially backed by the federal government, would take over United's four pension plans, but would pay out only about two-thirds of what is owed to plan members.

BRADLEY BELT, EXEC. DIR, PBGC: That's the tragedy in this situation, is that, it is the case that some employees and retirees will inevitably be cut back in the promises that they've been promised by the company.

CHERNOFF: A retiree at age 65 can receive no more than $45,600 a year from the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. That means veteran pilots with hefty pensions would suffer the deepest cuts. Lower paid flight attendants would see smaller reductions. United's machinist union plans to appeal the court decision, and union members have voted to strike if the bankruptcy court also OKs United's effort to scrap the contract to oppose wage and benefit cuts.

United, Wednesday, said it suffered an operating loss of $250 million in the first quarter, more proof, executives offered, the harsh measures are necessary to pull the airlines out of a financial tailspin.

JAKE BRACE, CFD, UNITED AIRLINES: We are doing what we need to do to make United Airlines successful for the long term. That's what we've been focused on the entire case. That's what this is all about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHERNOFF (on camera): United could save billions by passing its pension responsibility to the federal government, and that savings may lead competing airlines to follow suit in their effort to reach financial stability. Wolf?

BLITZER: Alan Chernoff, reporting. Thanks very much..

That's it for me. Please stay with CNN for complete coverage of all of today's dramatic developments in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

END

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