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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

A message from fugitive terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. More insurgent attacks in Iraq. America remembers its fallen on Memorial Day. An update on "Operation Lighting" in Baghdad. A possible break in an Ohio murder investigation.

Aired May 30, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, fugitive terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi allegedly tell Osama bin Laden that his wounds are only minor, but the tape has not yet be verified. What does this mean for the insurgency in Iraq, this Memorial Day.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

As America remembers its war dead, U.S. and Iraqi troops ramp up a new offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is definitely an enemy force here in Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: "Operation Lightning" -- can it stop a bloody wave of insurgent attacks?

A gruesome discovery outside a small town in Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I just can't explain it. Such a shock.

WOODRUFF: Six people dead in two neighboring homes. Police suspect murder-suicide.

He is one of the last men alive who interrogated top Nazi war criminals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They squealed on each other, put the blame on somebody else. "I had nothing to do with this, but he did. And he's a swine."

WOODRUFF: Sixty years later, one man's look into the face of evil.

And 1,800 Vietnam War veterans are still listed as missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really didn't think, you know, after all these years that they were going to -- that they would find my brother. But I'm very, very grateful.

WOODRUFF: We'll have the story of one family's closure.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, for Monday, May 30, 2005.

WOODRUFF: Thank you for being with us. I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf is off today. On this Memorial Day 2005, we join you from one of the nation's most revered monuments just outside Washington. The Marine Corps War Memorial here in Arlington, Virginia, commemorates Iwo Jima, one of the most famous battles of World War II. On this day that America pays tribute to all its war dead, U.S. troops are again in harm's way in Iraq. And there is a new report just in to CNN about a leader of the insurgency there, Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

A week after al Zarqawi was reported wounded, an audiotape has surfaced. A CIA spokesman says his agency is examining the tape. Experts should be able to say within a day or so whether it is al Zarqawi's voice.

Let's go now to CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr. She is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Hi, Octavia.

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS SR. EDITOR: Hi, Judy. It's very interesting, as you said, that there was an audiotape purported to be Abu Musab al Zarqawi. We listened to that audiotape. The man sounds a bit different from the Zarqawi that we've listened to before. But again, he's confirming that he was wounded, although he says it's minor. If indeed he is wounded, that could explain why the voice is a bit different. It is a bit subdued in this audio.

But interestingly enough, it starts in the same way that the other Zarqawi tapes start with, which is an introduction. He introduces himself. In this one, he says that this is a message to Osama bin Laden from his soldier, Abu Musab Zarqawi.

Very interesting development indeed, because there has been rumors about him being injured, gravely injured, even dead. Perhaps they said that he moved out of the country. If it turns out to be true, that it is Abu Musab al Zarqawi, then it's a confirmation that indeed he's alive and he could be well in Iraq.

Judy?

WOODRUFF: Octavia Nasr reporting for us. Thank you, Octavia.

In Iraq today, coalition officials say four Americans and one Iraqi are presumed dead after an Iraq air force crash northeast of Baghdad. Meanwhile, U.S. and Iraqi troops in Baghdad are launching a major offensive aimed at bringing an end to a surge of violent attacks in the Iraqi capital.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote reports on "Operation Lightning."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Iraq's security forces are launching their largest military operation since the fall of Saddam Hussein. Forty-thousand Iraqi police and soldiers will take part in "Operation Lightning" -- a massive dragnet for insurgents that will stretch throughout the entire Iraqi capital. Iraqi police will take the lead, setting up checkpoints on the city's limits and in its numerous neighborhoods. They'll also be doing house-to-house searches and launching raids. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers and more than 10,000 U.S. troops will back them up as the Iraqi military tries to switch its posture and goes on the offensive.

South of Baghdad, in the city of Hillah, two suicide bombers took aim at Iraq's own security forces. The first suicide bomber blew himself up next to a line of police recruits. As people ran to attend to the victims, a second detonated his explosives. More than two dozen Iraqis were killed; more than 100 wounded. It left desperation and grief in its aftermath, but little surprise. Insurgents have killed nearly 800 Iraqis this month.

(on camera.) Operation Lightning is not only an attempt to restore the Iraqi people's confidence in their military's ability to protect them. It's an attempt to show that far from being the ones who are always targeted, they can find targets of their own.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Ryan. Pentagon officials are hoping that "Operation Lightning" will mark a turning point. CNN senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us live with more on all this. Hi, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE: Hi, Judy. Well, while "Operation Lightning" does hold the promise of turning the tide of battle, Pentagon officials say for now, it's more sound than fury.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over) The operation may be dubbed "Lightning," but it's getting off to a slow start, according to U.S. military sources, who say so far, most of the raids have been conducted by American troops, while Iraqi forces have been preparing. But the Pentagon has high hopes that in the coming days, Iraqis will begin to free their capital from the grip of insurgents by manning some 675 checkpoints and conducting massive sweeps of Baghdad streets. It's more basic cop work than combat.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The good news about it is it's cooperation between the Iraqi Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Defense. It's important they cooperate. That's the police and the army, of course. It's important they cooperate, given the security situation they have. So that's all very, very encouraging.

MCINTYRE: The pentagon says of the Iraq's 100 battalions, only about 25 can operate without a lot of U.S. support. Military sources tell CNN the government's boast that there will be 40,000 Iraqi forces on the street might be a little inflated.

But even if only half that number takes part, the U.S. believes it could make a big difference, both militarily and symbolically. BRIG. GEN. DANIEL BOLGER, U.S. ARMY: Because, frankly, a lot of the people who live in Iraq, the common folks who live here, are tired of getting their children blown up. They're tired of being shot at on the way to work or school. And they've just had about enough of this. And Operation Lightning is the Iraqi government's way of reinforcing that effort here in the city with their great new police forces and their army forces taking a really important leading role.

MCINTYRE: Now, obviously the Pentagon really hopes that "Operation Lightning" does succeed, not just because it would deal a blow to the insurgents, but the more the Iraqi show that they're up to the job, the sooner the U.S. can begin planning for the return of some of its troops to the U.S.

Judy.

WOODRUFF: We know they are hopeful. All right, Jamie, thank you very much.

Remembering and reflecting. Across the country today, Americans are marking Memorial Day with parades and ceremonies to honor fallen heroes. President Bush placed a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery, saying the sacrifice of those killed will never be forgotten.

Many Americans visited the Vietnam War Memorial. Some left flags. Others copied the name of a war veteran.

As President Bush marked Memorial Day, he acknowledged those killed in wars launched during his time in office, and he called the U.S. a reluctant warrior. With more on the president's tributes today, we're joined by CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. Well, President Bush, of course, using Memorial Day to acknowledge the cost of the war, but also at the same time, of course, as he typically does, to continue to make his case that no matter what the sacrifices, it is well worth it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over) Following Memorial Day tradition, President Bush paid tribute to America's fallen soldiers, laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The names of the men buried there are known only to God, but their courage and sacrifice will never be forgotten by our nation.

MALVEAUX: Under a bright sun before veterans, tourists, active troops and their families, Mr. Bush remembered those who served and comforted survivors and military families.

BUSH: For those who've lost loved ones in Afghanistan and Iraq, today's a day of last letters and fresh tears. Because of the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform, two terror regimes are gone forever, freedom is on the march, and America is more secure.

MALVEAUX: Memorial Day observances come at a time when a major U.S.- supported operation against insurgents in Baghdad, dubbed "Operation Lightning," is in the works. Since the new Iraqi government was installed last June, close to 800 U.S. troops have been killed. And nearly that many Iraqis have died in insurgent attacks this month alone.

But Mr. Bush did not dwell on the numbers. Instead he focused on individuals' parting words to their families and letters they'd sent from the battlefield -- one from a U.S. Marine killed in the first hours of war.

BUSH: He wrote, "Realize that I died doing something that I truly love. For a purpose greater than myself.

MALVEAUX: Also at the ceremony, the country's top military brass saluted the troops, but reminded them their mission is far from done.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Just as peace cannot be bought cheaply, it cannot be won quickly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And Vice President Dick Cheney told CNN's Larry King that he believes the insurgency is in its last throes and of course, he that he also believes U.S. military activity in Iraq will decline in Mr. Bush's second term. Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you, Suzanne.

Well, we have a lot ahead this hour. Up next, I'll be joined by former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen. We'll talk about the implications of the new offensive in Iraq and what it could mean for the insurgency and how the war's going overall.

Plus, two farmhouses, six bodies. An Ohio community comes to grips with what is being called the worst tragedy ever in that town.

And later, Hitler's henchmen, what they said, captured and behind closed doors. One of the very few World War II army investigators still alive speaks to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It is a statue that everyone recognizes. We are back at the Marine Corps War Memorial in Arlington, Virginia, not far from Arlington National Cemetery, where President Bush spoke today paying tribute to the U.S. troops who have died in Iraq and in all U.S. wars. Our world affairs analyst William Cohen served as defense secretary under President Clinton. He's across the Potomac in our Washington bureau.

Mr. Secretary, the vice president telling Larry King in an interview airing tonight that the insurgency is in its last throes. And yet the attacks continue, the killing continues, hundreds of Iraqis, more Americans are dying. Which is it?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, I think we've had declarations that this is the last sort of gasp by the insurgents. And frankly, we don't know. Obviously they have intensified the car bombings and suicide bombings, and it may very well be that they see that the combination of U.S. forces now being led hopefully by the Iraqi forces in the recent operation will in fact crush the back of the insurgents.

But I think it's too early to tell. We have to see how the Iraqis are going to perform in this either police work or combat combination effort. But I think it's too early to tell at this point if it is the insurgents who are gaining momentum or whether the United States and coalition forces and the Iraqi forces are gaining momentum. This is a very important operation. And if the Iraqis perform well, this will send a message to principally the Sunnis who are principally the insurgents here, that their future lies with backing into a political solution as opposed to a military operation against the coalition forces.

WOODRUFF: Well, what does it say to you? Our own Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reported a moment ago that Pentagon officials are telling him that as of now it is more sound than fury in their words. That only a portion of the Iraqi units are able to go into combat without massive U.S. support.

COHEN: Whether there are 40,000 in number or 30,000 or even 20,000, if there were 20,000 Iraqis who were part of this force backed up by another 10,000 Americans, that's still a very important statement for us to make. That this is putting an Iraqi face on this particular effort. Yes, backed up by the United States, but to the extent that there are 20,000 or 30,000 or hopefully 40,000 Iraqis now in this movement of trying to shut down this insurgency and ferret out the suicide bombers, that's a very important effort to undertake. So even though it's starting out slow, I think the effort is one to be commended.

WOODRUFF: And still, the pace of the involvement of Iraqis, a surprise to you?

COHEN: No, this is -- it takes a good deal of time to train a force, certainly in dealing with insurgencies. To develop a counterinsurgency capability it's going to take some time and the one thing we have to keep in mind is, we cannot afford to lose this battle with the insurgents. There's too much at stake.

And so we have to look for the long term, and not keep talking about whether or not we're going to be out at the end of two years or three years. We have to say, we're there as long as is necessary so that we can prevail. Because a loss would be catastrophic to the region.

So I think it's important that we indicate we're there, that we support the Iraqis taking more of their own effort under way, and to support them. But we cannot start talking as some in Congress are talking about a way out, and start really closing down the operation anytime soon.

WOODRUFF: Very quickly, there's Zarqawi -- alleged Zarqawi statement saying that his wound that he suffered, a minor wound. Is this something that's credible, do you think? Obviously the CIA is taking a look at it.

COHEN: I think we make a mistake in focusing too much on any one individual, whether it's bin Laden. At first we were really focused on bin Laden. If we could only get him, it would be the end of the insurgency. Now it's Zarqawi. I believe whether Zarqawi has a minor wound or whether he has been gravely wounded is quite irrelevant. There are many more willing to take up the cudgel in this particular case on behalf of the insurgents.

So we ought to continue to focus on crushing the insurgents and not make our judgment based upon whether or not one leader has been gravely or only minor wounds suffered in the course of it.

WOODRUFF: Former Secretary of Defense, William Cohen. Thank you very much.

COHEN: Great to talk to you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

Neighboring homes side by side in a grisly tragedy. Six dead in an apparent murder-suicide. Now as a town comes to grips, police in Ohio search for answers.

Plus, one allegedly tried to treat them, the other allegedly tried to train them. Two Americans now arrested for allegedly aiding al Qaeda.

And pressing the Nazi prisoners. He interrogated some of Hitler's top agents. You won't believe the stories he has to tell. A World War II U.S. Army investigator speaks to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Authorities in Ohio believe an 18-year-old gunned down his grandparents, his mother and two friends before killing himself. The apparent murder-suicide happened in neighboring homes outside Bellefontaine, which is about 45 miles northwest of Columbus. The Logan County sheriff says he believes Scott Moody pulled the trigger, but so far doesn't know why. Shannon McCormick of our affiliate WSYX joins us with the latest. Hello, Shannon.

SHANNON MCCORMICK, WSYX CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. The teenage boy celebrated his upcoming high school graduation with a party at his own home on Saturday night. And then on Sunday morning, instead of putting on his cap and gown and going to his graduation, he picked up a rifle and did the unthinkable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCORMICK (voice-over): The grief must been overwhelming as relatives visited this farmhouse turned crime scene. The sheriff's office believes it was Scott Moody, an 18-year-old just hours away from his high school graduation who murdered his mother, grandparents and two family friends before turning the rifle on himself.

SHERIFF MIKE HENRY, LOGAN COUNTY, OHIO: Based upon the scene, based upon location of everything, and the way we found the scene.

MCCORMICK: Sheriff's deputies first came to this home and found Scott's body. They also found his mom, Sharyl Shafer and friends 14- year-old Paige Harshbarger and 19-year-old Megan Karus murdered in upstairs bedrooms while they slept. Scott's sister, 15-year-old Stacy Moody, was clinging to life in the kitchen. They had all been shot sometime between 7:00 and 10:00 Sunday morning. After making that gruesome discovery here, sheriff's deputies wanted to talk to Scott's grandparents, so they headed right down there to their house.

They found Cheryl and Gary Shafer murdered. Six dead, one critical, in the rural Bellefontaine community of about 13,000.

HENRY: A lot of these people we knew. We were familiar with these kids. You can't describe how you feel about it. It's tough.

MCCORMICK: What detectives saw inside this house and the forensic evidence they collected will help them piece together exactly what happened. But Scott's reasons for killing the people closest to him on a day he was supposed to spend celebrating are a mystery.

HENRY: That is the main, number one question we have right now, why. And we'll be working -- that's one of our points right now to find out why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCCORMICK: Now, Stacy Moody, Scott's 15-year-old sister, is the sole survivor of this. I just checked on her a few minutes ago and she remains in critical condition at the Ohio State University Medical Center. Live in Columbus, I'm Shannon McCormick. Back to you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Shannon. Such a terrible, terrible story.

As Americans remember those who have died in the war on terror, today two U.S. citizens are arrested on terrorism charges. Why authorities believe the men may have been conspiring to aid al Qaeda members.

And we'll take you to one of Saddam Hussein's former palaces where American troops take time out to remember their fallen friends.

Now, here is a look at some stories you may have missed this past weekend.

(voice-over): Oscar-winning movie director Oliver Stone was arrested in Beverly Hills after being stopped at a police checkpoint. Police say he's suspected of driving while intoxicated and possessing illegal drugs. Stone was held overnight in jail before posting a $15,000 bond. Air show crash. A pilot suffered critical injuries when his home-built plane crashed during a race at an air show in Oklahoma. The cause has not been determined.

Rough river, rescue crews had to pull at least 20 boaters from the rough waters of the Potomac River, after storms disrupted this year's annual Dragon Boat Festival and Race in Washington, D.C.. There were no serious injuries.

Coming close, Danica Patrick lost her bid to become the first woman to win the Indianapolis 500. Patrick had the lead with seven laps to go. But Dan Wheldon passed her to come in first. And Patrick finished fourth.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back on this Memorial Day.

Accused of aiding Al Qaeda, the FBI arrest two Americans, one doctor and one martial arts instructor. Did they help the enemy from within? A live report is next.

But first, a quick check of other stories now in the news.

Deadly violence in Karachi, Pakistan. Authorities say a man blew himself up inside a Shiite mosque, killing himself and bystanders. Another attacker and a police officer were killed during an ensuing gun battle. In the aftermath, rioting broke out and several businesses were burned.

A very different story. A sticky situation for a horse and rider near Los Angeles. They both became trapped in thick mud this morning and had to be rescued by emergency crews. There were no serious injuries for man or horse.

In our CNN security watch, two Americans are scheduled to appear in court tomorrow to face charges they conspired to help Al Qaeda. One of the men, Rafiq Sabir, is a doctor who investigators say planned to treat injured jihadists in Saudi Arabia.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is live in New York with us, more on the accused and the FBI sting that led to their arrest.

Hi, Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Judy.

Well, in the criminal complaint, there was a lot of talk, talk of training Al Qaeda terrorists in martial arts and hand-to-hand combat, talk of treating wounded Muslim fighters, talk that has those two Americans facing charges of planning to help Al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden. Now, Dr. Rafiq Sabir, as you mentioned, was arrested at his home in Boca Raton, Florida, over the weekend. Tarik Shah was arrested at his apartment in the Bronx. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: These men have been under surveillance. It doesn't look like they really did very much, but, you know, you wonder what can cause people to not appreciate the freedoms that we have. And we saw what happens when you don't go after terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, in the complaint, it seems that Shah did most of the talking, first to a convicted robber-turned-government-informant wearing a wire and then to an undercover FBI agent posing as a jihad recruiter for Osama bin Laden. Prosecutors say that Shah even scoped out a Long Island warehouse as a possible place for training, while Sabir, an emergency room doctor in Palm Beach County, Florida, was ready to leave to Saudi Arabia this week.

Both Sabir and Shah allegedly swore an oath of allegiance to bin Laden. Both face one count of material support of terrorism. Repeated calls to family and lawyers went unanswered. They will answer the charges themselves Tuesday -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.

CNN is committed to bringing you the most reliable news about your security. Stay tuned to CNN, day and night.

As we reported at the top of the hour, Operation Lightning is underway in Iraq. U.S. military officials now confirm that the major counterinsurgency offensive began in the last several days. Ten thousand American troops are said to be assisting 40,000 Iraqi forces in operating checkpoints and conducting raids. Meanwhile, American forces in Baghdad took time to honor their fallen comrades this Memorial Day. This ceremony was held at Camp Victory, which it located at one of Saddam Hussein's former palaces.

Now a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

French fallout. President Jacques Chirac appears poised to remove his prime minister. That comes one day after French voters rejected a proposed European Union constitution in a humiliating defeat for the Chirac government.

Turning point in Lebanon. Anti-Syrian candidates swept elections in Beirut, the first free of Syrian influence in 29 years. Leading the way, Saad Hariri, son of the anti-Syrian former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated in February.

Australian outrage. Anti-Indonesian signs have cropped up calling for a boycott of Bali. They are in response to last week's sentencing of Schapelle Corby who was given 20 years by an Indonesian court for drug smuggling, a charge she denies. Mystery man clue. A British newspaper reports that a mute piano player who was found wandering in southeast England last month may be a missing Czech musician. It is one of some 250 leads that have poured in on the so-called piano man.

And that's our look around the world.

Interrogating Hitler's right-hand man. We will meet the former American soldier who pried the truth of the Nazi horror from Herman Goering.

And final salute. They fell in the battle on hill 665. Four decades later, they are at home and at rest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. We are live this Memorial Day at the Marine Corps War Memorial, depicting the raising of the American flag on Iwo Jima in February, 1945. That iconic event was followed three months later by another important World War II milestone, the surrender of Nazi Herman Goering.

CNN's David Ensor spoke with the man who interrogated Goering for the U.S. Army.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At 86, John Dolibois is one of the few still alive who knows firsthand what top Nazis were really like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reich martial Herman Goering at 7th Army Headquarters in Argbort (ph), Germany, after surrendering to the U.S....

ENSOR: In 1945, he was a U.S. Army interrogator assigned to air martial Herman Goering and other top Nazi prisoners. His mission? Help prosecutors at the Nuremburg Tribunal decide who to try for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Goering, he says, was one of the worst war criminals, but he was interesting.

JOHN DOLIBOIS, FORMER U.S. ARMY INTERROGATOR: Goering was a lot of fun.

ENSOR (on-screen): A lot of fun?

DOLIBOIS: Fun, oh, yes. He was a good guy to party with. Goering had a little black book in which he wrote down all of the underground jokes being told about himself by the German people, about Hitler, him, the Nazi people.

He collected jokes, jokes for which you could be sent to concentration camp if you're caught telling them. But he collected them. That's kind of weird, but it amused me. And if he was in a good mood, he would tell you these jokes. That made him interesting. He was interesting, also, because he was a dope addict. He was shot in the groin during the push in 1923 when he was at Hitler's side. And he went through a very intensive recovery period during which he became addicted to morphine.

ENSOR (voice-over): Dolibois and other interrogators lived with over 80 Nazi prisoners for months at a hotel turned into a prison. It was in Luxembourg which, as it happens, is the nation of his birth.

(on-screen): What sorts of characters did you run into in that palace hotel?

DOLIBOIS: Probably the most interesting psychologically was Julius Streicher, the jail baiter. He was interesting because he was such an obnoxious, disgusting individual. He was a Jew-baiter, a hater. He was a sexologist. His...

ENSOR: Sexologist?

DOLIBOIS: He was an expert on sex. He knew all about pornography. And he loved to talk about abnormal sex. You had it, just as I say, he was disgusting.

ENSOR: And what happened to him? What was his sentence?

DOLIBOIS: He was hanged.

ENSOR (voice-over): Dolibois says it wasn't that difficult to get most of the top Nazis to talk. They had no idea they could be tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity. Before Nuremberg there was no such concept. Plus, some liked to boast or to transfer blame.

DOLIBOIS: They squealed on each other, put the blame on somebody else. "I had nothing to do with this, but he did. And he's a swine. You should really get him."

ENSOR (on-screen): Did you ever use any kinds of pressure to get information?

DOLIBOIS: The only pressure we ever used was, "Well, look, if you don't want to cooperate for your own good, we'll just send you over to the Soviet Union. They have ways of getting information. Would you rather go there?"

ENSOR: That must have been effective, I imagine.

DOLIBOIS: That opened up a lot of mouths, yes. And we didn't have to do that very often.

ENSOR: As somebody who participated in these interrogations of Nazis all these years ago, now, when you hear about the scandals in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, what do you think?

DOLIBOIS: They're being tried and have been tried. They're being punished, maybe not as severely as I would punish them, because they give our country a bad name, a bad reputation and helped fuel the flames that made anti-Americanism even more vicious and bitter.

But what they did is in violation of the rules. They were having fun. They were not carrying out an interrogation technique.

ENSOR (voice-over): Nazi interrogator John Dolibois, his most famous prisoner, Herman Goering, cheated the hangman after Nuremberg using cyanide poison that he had hidden inside a false tooth.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: That was riveting.

Coming up next, almost four decades after they were killed fighting for their country, the remains of four Vietnam veterans finally are at home on this Memorial Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: I'm Judy Woodruff in for Wolf Blitzer.

And we are live this Memorial Day at the Marine Corps War Memorial depicting the raising of the U.S. flag on Iwo Jima.

Twenty-two years later, another battle in another war would mark the beginning of four families' long quest to bring their loved ones home. CNN's Brian Todd joins me with that story.

Hi, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, that was a struggle that took those four families nearly four decades to resolve. But recently, in a spot not very far from this place, they got that resolution.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): Irene Healea always knew what happened to her brother but had no finality. On an idyllic morning at Arlington National Cemetery, she got it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother was a great guy. He was a hero.

TODD: Healea and members of three other families waited 38 years for this moment, 38 years since her brother, U.S. Marine Lieutenant Heinz Ahlmeyer, Jr., landed on one of those untakeable hills in Vietnam. May 1967, Lieutenant Ahlmeyer and six others move onto a ridgeline near the Laotian border.

Recon Team Breaker, as they're called, is ordered to gather intelligence on enemy infiltration routes. Ahlmeyer has only been in country for about two weeks and is on his first combat mission.

One member of his team knows how dangerous this will be. In a letter home written the night before, Sergeant James Neil-Teiss (ph) tells his parents, "Our lieutenant passed me the word that we go in at 7:30 a.m. tomorrow. None of us want to go, but that's our job. And I pray I will never fail to do it."

The next day, on that hill, published reports say a force of at least 30 North Vietnamese troops practically stumbles over the seven Americans. The marines fight nobly but can't withstand the onslaught.

BRITT FRIERY, MEMBER OF "RT BREAKER": Before we could take them out, they had fired an automatic burst that wounded Lieutenant Ahlmeyer very seriously, wounded Sergeant Teiss (ph), as well.

TODD: Ahlmeyer, Teiss, Navy Corpsman Malcolm Miller (ph), and Marine Lance Corporal Samuel Sharp, Jr., (ph) are killed almost immediately. At least one helicopter that moves in to evacuate them is shot down. The hill is napalmed. A survivor on the ground frantically radios for help.

RON ZACZEK, MEMBER OF RESCUE TEAM: And he kept saying, you know, "OK, you've got to get us out. We're burning up. We're burning up. You've got to come in. You've got to get us out."

TODD: The remaining marines are rescued. But the hill is so dangerous, the military says, that the bodies of the dead must be left there. What no one imagines is that they'll stay there for more than 30 years. Combat during the war, hostility between the two countries afterward, make it impossible to get them out.

IRENE HEALEA, HEINZ AHLMEYER'S SISTER: I really didn't think, you know, after all these years, that they would find my brother. But I'm very, very grateful.

TODD: Earlier this year, Healea and relatives of the three others get word. Diplomacy has paid off. Excavation teams were finally allowed on that hill. Remains of teeth and other markings have been identified. Her brother is coming home.

Heinz Ahlmeyer, Jr., James Neil-Teiss (ph), and Malcolm Miller (ph) now rest at Arlington. Samuel Sharp, Jr., (ph) honored in this ceremony, is buried back home in California. Another man on that hill remains haunted.

FRIERY: I didn't think I would get out of there. When we went in there, we thought we wouldn't get out of there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: And so many remain. According to the Department of Defense, more than 1,800 Americans are still officially listed as missing from the Vietnam War -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Brian, these families, had they given up hope before the word came about this excavation and so forth?

TODD: At least one of them had. Irene Healea, the one we feature in here, we had talked to her extensively before we did this piece. And she actually had given up hope. They thought, "38 years, there's no way we're going to get them back."

WOODRUFF: Do we know how many other active excavations or efforts are underway to recover these other 1,800, because their families are waiting, too.

TODD: Right, exactly. Several are ongoing. We don't know exactly how many. And it kind of ebbs and flows as things get going between the U.S. and the Vietnam government on different occasions. But it's an ongoing thing. And hopefully, we'll be getting some more back soon.

WOODRUFF: I know, for the longest time, the MIA families and those organizations were very active at pushing, pushing for more information, but you don't hear as much about this...

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: You don't hear as much about them anymore. And it's just not the Vietnam War. There are, I think, more than 80,000 Americans still listed from MIA from all the recent -- at least the recent wars the United States has fought. So it's a really heartbreaking thing.

WOODRUFF: It may be hard for the rest of us to understand, but for those families, just having these remains and even many years later makes an enormous difference.

TODD: Absolutely. You hate to use the word closure, but they can at least visit their loved ones in a certain place, go there any time they want, and they know that they're there, not some hill far, far away.

WOODRUFF: And seeing them honored makes an enormous difference.

TODD: Absolutely.

WOODRUFF: Brian Todd, thank you very much for bringing us that story.

Well, it has been a Memorial Day to remember. Straight ahead, I look back at the sights and sounds across the nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Known as a peacemaker, a warrior, and perennial statesman, Shimon Peres has held the office of Israeli prime minister two times and had his hand in building Israel's military arsenal. For years, with tongue-in-cheek, he referred to the country's secret nuclear facility as a textile factory.

SHIMON PERES, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The textile is out of business. You know, people are going for high-tech today. But the textile business achieved its basic aim as a deterrent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Then there is the peaceful side of Shimon Peres. He won the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Yitzhak Rabin and Yassir Arafat for their roles in the Oslo Peace Accord. Peres established the Peres Center for Peace with the hopes of creating a new Middle East.

The father of three and grandfather of seven has also written several books. This year, 81-year-old Peres returned to the Israeli government as part of an Ariel Sharon-led coalition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: The Marine Corps War Memorial here in Arlington, Virginia, is just one of many focal points for today's Memorial Day observances. There were ceremonies across the country, including Washington, D.C.'s, first Memorial Day parade since World War II.

Our picture of the day is a look at just a few of today's events.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE MANTEGNA, ACTOR: Here it is, Memorial Day weekend. And this is the time that we need to at least take pause for however long it may be and we would like to think for at least the reason we have this great holiday weekend to do our barbecues, and going to the beach, and going to the races is that there are military all over the world who have and are continuing to put their life on the line. And so this is the time for us to pay our respects to them.

COL. RON JOHNSON, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I think that people ought to stop and reflect on what these great Americans have done for us. I owe it to all those servicepeople that were before me in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, who sacrificed so much. Now, I start to reflect on their service to their country. So not only do I think of my guys, I also think about how great they made our country and what they gave us.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: So today we remember our troops in harm's way, just as we remember all those who selflessly defended our freedom in the past, all those who toiled, all those who sacrifice, to build an abiding peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: And our thanks to all those who have given their lives for this country.

Remember, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS at this time, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thanks for joining us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right after this news update from Rick Sanchez standing by at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 30, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, fugitive terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi allegedly tell Osama bin Laden that his wounds are only minor, but the tape has not yet be verified. What does this mean for the insurgency in Iraq, this Memorial Day.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

As America remembers its war dead, U.S. and Iraqi troops ramp up a new offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is definitely an enemy force here in Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: "Operation Lightning" -- can it stop a bloody wave of insurgent attacks?

A gruesome discovery outside a small town in Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I just can't explain it. Such a shock.

WOODRUFF: Six people dead in two neighboring homes. Police suspect murder-suicide.

He is one of the last men alive who interrogated top Nazi war criminals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They squealed on each other, put the blame on somebody else. "I had nothing to do with this, but he did. And he's a swine."

WOODRUFF: Sixty years later, one man's look into the face of evil.

And 1,800 Vietnam War veterans are still listed as missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really didn't think, you know, after all these years that they were going to -- that they would find my brother. But I'm very, very grateful.

WOODRUFF: We'll have the story of one family's closure.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, for Monday, May 30, 2005.

WOODRUFF: Thank you for being with us. I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf is off today. On this Memorial Day 2005, we join you from one of the nation's most revered monuments just outside Washington. The Marine Corps War Memorial here in Arlington, Virginia, commemorates Iwo Jima, one of the most famous battles of World War II. On this day that America pays tribute to all its war dead, U.S. troops are again in harm's way in Iraq. And there is a new report just in to CNN about a leader of the insurgency there, Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

A week after al Zarqawi was reported wounded, an audiotape has surfaced. A CIA spokesman says his agency is examining the tape. Experts should be able to say within a day or so whether it is al Zarqawi's voice.

Let's go now to CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr. She is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Hi, Octavia.

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS SR. EDITOR: Hi, Judy. It's very interesting, as you said, that there was an audiotape purported to be Abu Musab al Zarqawi. We listened to that audiotape. The man sounds a bit different from the Zarqawi that we've listened to before. But again, he's confirming that he was wounded, although he says it's minor. If indeed he is wounded, that could explain why the voice is a bit different. It is a bit subdued in this audio.

But interestingly enough, it starts in the same way that the other Zarqawi tapes start with, which is an introduction. He introduces himself. In this one, he says that this is a message to Osama bin Laden from his soldier, Abu Musab Zarqawi.

Very interesting development indeed, because there has been rumors about him being injured, gravely injured, even dead. Perhaps they said that he moved out of the country. If it turns out to be true, that it is Abu Musab al Zarqawi, then it's a confirmation that indeed he's alive and he could be well in Iraq.

Judy?

WOODRUFF: Octavia Nasr reporting for us. Thank you, Octavia.

In Iraq today, coalition officials say four Americans and one Iraqi are presumed dead after an Iraq air force crash northeast of Baghdad. Meanwhile, U.S. and Iraqi troops in Baghdad are launching a major offensive aimed at bringing an end to a surge of violent attacks in the Iraqi capital.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote reports on "Operation Lightning."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Iraq's security forces are launching their largest military operation since the fall of Saddam Hussein. Forty-thousand Iraqi police and soldiers will take part in "Operation Lightning" -- a massive dragnet for insurgents that will stretch throughout the entire Iraqi capital. Iraqi police will take the lead, setting up checkpoints on the city's limits and in its numerous neighborhoods. They'll also be doing house-to-house searches and launching raids. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers and more than 10,000 U.S. troops will back them up as the Iraqi military tries to switch its posture and goes on the offensive.

South of Baghdad, in the city of Hillah, two suicide bombers took aim at Iraq's own security forces. The first suicide bomber blew himself up next to a line of police recruits. As people ran to attend to the victims, a second detonated his explosives. More than two dozen Iraqis were killed; more than 100 wounded. It left desperation and grief in its aftermath, but little surprise. Insurgents have killed nearly 800 Iraqis this month.

(on camera.) Operation Lightning is not only an attempt to restore the Iraqi people's confidence in their military's ability to protect them. It's an attempt to show that far from being the ones who are always targeted, they can find targets of their own.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Ryan. Pentagon officials are hoping that "Operation Lightning" will mark a turning point. CNN senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us live with more on all this. Hi, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE: Hi, Judy. Well, while "Operation Lightning" does hold the promise of turning the tide of battle, Pentagon officials say for now, it's more sound than fury.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over) The operation may be dubbed "Lightning," but it's getting off to a slow start, according to U.S. military sources, who say so far, most of the raids have been conducted by American troops, while Iraqi forces have been preparing. But the Pentagon has high hopes that in the coming days, Iraqis will begin to free their capital from the grip of insurgents by manning some 675 checkpoints and conducting massive sweeps of Baghdad streets. It's more basic cop work than combat.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The good news about it is it's cooperation between the Iraqi Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Defense. It's important they cooperate. That's the police and the army, of course. It's important they cooperate, given the security situation they have. So that's all very, very encouraging.

MCINTYRE: The pentagon says of the Iraq's 100 battalions, only about 25 can operate without a lot of U.S. support. Military sources tell CNN the government's boast that there will be 40,000 Iraqi forces on the street might be a little inflated.

But even if only half that number takes part, the U.S. believes it could make a big difference, both militarily and symbolically. BRIG. GEN. DANIEL BOLGER, U.S. ARMY: Because, frankly, a lot of the people who live in Iraq, the common folks who live here, are tired of getting their children blown up. They're tired of being shot at on the way to work or school. And they've just had about enough of this. And Operation Lightning is the Iraqi government's way of reinforcing that effort here in the city with their great new police forces and their army forces taking a really important leading role.

MCINTYRE: Now, obviously the Pentagon really hopes that "Operation Lightning" does succeed, not just because it would deal a blow to the insurgents, but the more the Iraqi show that they're up to the job, the sooner the U.S. can begin planning for the return of some of its troops to the U.S.

Judy.

WOODRUFF: We know they are hopeful. All right, Jamie, thank you very much.

Remembering and reflecting. Across the country today, Americans are marking Memorial Day with parades and ceremonies to honor fallen heroes. President Bush placed a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery, saying the sacrifice of those killed will never be forgotten.

Many Americans visited the Vietnam War Memorial. Some left flags. Others copied the name of a war veteran.

As President Bush marked Memorial Day, he acknowledged those killed in wars launched during his time in office, and he called the U.S. a reluctant warrior. With more on the president's tributes today, we're joined by CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. Well, President Bush, of course, using Memorial Day to acknowledge the cost of the war, but also at the same time, of course, as he typically does, to continue to make his case that no matter what the sacrifices, it is well worth it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over) Following Memorial Day tradition, President Bush paid tribute to America's fallen soldiers, laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The names of the men buried there are known only to God, but their courage and sacrifice will never be forgotten by our nation.

MALVEAUX: Under a bright sun before veterans, tourists, active troops and their families, Mr. Bush remembered those who served and comforted survivors and military families.

BUSH: For those who've lost loved ones in Afghanistan and Iraq, today's a day of last letters and fresh tears. Because of the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform, two terror regimes are gone forever, freedom is on the march, and America is more secure.

MALVEAUX: Memorial Day observances come at a time when a major U.S.- supported operation against insurgents in Baghdad, dubbed "Operation Lightning," is in the works. Since the new Iraqi government was installed last June, close to 800 U.S. troops have been killed. And nearly that many Iraqis have died in insurgent attacks this month alone.

But Mr. Bush did not dwell on the numbers. Instead he focused on individuals' parting words to their families and letters they'd sent from the battlefield -- one from a U.S. Marine killed in the first hours of war.

BUSH: He wrote, "Realize that I died doing something that I truly love. For a purpose greater than myself.

MALVEAUX: Also at the ceremony, the country's top military brass saluted the troops, but reminded them their mission is far from done.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Just as peace cannot be bought cheaply, it cannot be won quickly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And Vice President Dick Cheney told CNN's Larry King that he believes the insurgency is in its last throes and of course, he that he also believes U.S. military activity in Iraq will decline in Mr. Bush's second term. Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you, Suzanne.

Well, we have a lot ahead this hour. Up next, I'll be joined by former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen. We'll talk about the implications of the new offensive in Iraq and what it could mean for the insurgency and how the war's going overall.

Plus, two farmhouses, six bodies. An Ohio community comes to grips with what is being called the worst tragedy ever in that town.

And later, Hitler's henchmen, what they said, captured and behind closed doors. One of the very few World War II army investigators still alive speaks to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It is a statue that everyone recognizes. We are back at the Marine Corps War Memorial in Arlington, Virginia, not far from Arlington National Cemetery, where President Bush spoke today paying tribute to the U.S. troops who have died in Iraq and in all U.S. wars. Our world affairs analyst William Cohen served as defense secretary under President Clinton. He's across the Potomac in our Washington bureau.

Mr. Secretary, the vice president telling Larry King in an interview airing tonight that the insurgency is in its last throes. And yet the attacks continue, the killing continues, hundreds of Iraqis, more Americans are dying. Which is it?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, I think we've had declarations that this is the last sort of gasp by the insurgents. And frankly, we don't know. Obviously they have intensified the car bombings and suicide bombings, and it may very well be that they see that the combination of U.S. forces now being led hopefully by the Iraqi forces in the recent operation will in fact crush the back of the insurgents.

But I think it's too early to tell. We have to see how the Iraqis are going to perform in this either police work or combat combination effort. But I think it's too early to tell at this point if it is the insurgents who are gaining momentum or whether the United States and coalition forces and the Iraqi forces are gaining momentum. This is a very important operation. And if the Iraqis perform well, this will send a message to principally the Sunnis who are principally the insurgents here, that their future lies with backing into a political solution as opposed to a military operation against the coalition forces.

WOODRUFF: Well, what does it say to you? Our own Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reported a moment ago that Pentagon officials are telling him that as of now it is more sound than fury in their words. That only a portion of the Iraqi units are able to go into combat without massive U.S. support.

COHEN: Whether there are 40,000 in number or 30,000 or even 20,000, if there were 20,000 Iraqis who were part of this force backed up by another 10,000 Americans, that's still a very important statement for us to make. That this is putting an Iraqi face on this particular effort. Yes, backed up by the United States, but to the extent that there are 20,000 or 30,000 or hopefully 40,000 Iraqis now in this movement of trying to shut down this insurgency and ferret out the suicide bombers, that's a very important effort to undertake. So even though it's starting out slow, I think the effort is one to be commended.

WOODRUFF: And still, the pace of the involvement of Iraqis, a surprise to you?

COHEN: No, this is -- it takes a good deal of time to train a force, certainly in dealing with insurgencies. To develop a counterinsurgency capability it's going to take some time and the one thing we have to keep in mind is, we cannot afford to lose this battle with the insurgents. There's too much at stake.

And so we have to look for the long term, and not keep talking about whether or not we're going to be out at the end of two years or three years. We have to say, we're there as long as is necessary so that we can prevail. Because a loss would be catastrophic to the region.

So I think it's important that we indicate we're there, that we support the Iraqis taking more of their own effort under way, and to support them. But we cannot start talking as some in Congress are talking about a way out, and start really closing down the operation anytime soon.

WOODRUFF: Very quickly, there's Zarqawi -- alleged Zarqawi statement saying that his wound that he suffered, a minor wound. Is this something that's credible, do you think? Obviously the CIA is taking a look at it.

COHEN: I think we make a mistake in focusing too much on any one individual, whether it's bin Laden. At first we were really focused on bin Laden. If we could only get him, it would be the end of the insurgency. Now it's Zarqawi. I believe whether Zarqawi has a minor wound or whether he has been gravely wounded is quite irrelevant. There are many more willing to take up the cudgel in this particular case on behalf of the insurgents.

So we ought to continue to focus on crushing the insurgents and not make our judgment based upon whether or not one leader has been gravely or only minor wounds suffered in the course of it.

WOODRUFF: Former Secretary of Defense, William Cohen. Thank you very much.

COHEN: Great to talk to you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

Neighboring homes side by side in a grisly tragedy. Six dead in an apparent murder-suicide. Now as a town comes to grips, police in Ohio search for answers.

Plus, one allegedly tried to treat them, the other allegedly tried to train them. Two Americans now arrested for allegedly aiding al Qaeda.

And pressing the Nazi prisoners. He interrogated some of Hitler's top agents. You won't believe the stories he has to tell. A World War II U.S. Army investigator speaks to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Authorities in Ohio believe an 18-year-old gunned down his grandparents, his mother and two friends before killing himself. The apparent murder-suicide happened in neighboring homes outside Bellefontaine, which is about 45 miles northwest of Columbus. The Logan County sheriff says he believes Scott Moody pulled the trigger, but so far doesn't know why. Shannon McCormick of our affiliate WSYX joins us with the latest. Hello, Shannon.

SHANNON MCCORMICK, WSYX CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy. The teenage boy celebrated his upcoming high school graduation with a party at his own home on Saturday night. And then on Sunday morning, instead of putting on his cap and gown and going to his graduation, he picked up a rifle and did the unthinkable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCORMICK (voice-over): The grief must been overwhelming as relatives visited this farmhouse turned crime scene. The sheriff's office believes it was Scott Moody, an 18-year-old just hours away from his high school graduation who murdered his mother, grandparents and two family friends before turning the rifle on himself.

SHERIFF MIKE HENRY, LOGAN COUNTY, OHIO: Based upon the scene, based upon location of everything, and the way we found the scene.

MCCORMICK: Sheriff's deputies first came to this home and found Scott's body. They also found his mom, Sharyl Shafer and friends 14- year-old Paige Harshbarger and 19-year-old Megan Karus murdered in upstairs bedrooms while they slept. Scott's sister, 15-year-old Stacy Moody, was clinging to life in the kitchen. They had all been shot sometime between 7:00 and 10:00 Sunday morning. After making that gruesome discovery here, sheriff's deputies wanted to talk to Scott's grandparents, so they headed right down there to their house.

They found Cheryl and Gary Shafer murdered. Six dead, one critical, in the rural Bellefontaine community of about 13,000.

HENRY: A lot of these people we knew. We were familiar with these kids. You can't describe how you feel about it. It's tough.

MCCORMICK: What detectives saw inside this house and the forensic evidence they collected will help them piece together exactly what happened. But Scott's reasons for killing the people closest to him on a day he was supposed to spend celebrating are a mystery.

HENRY: That is the main, number one question we have right now, why. And we'll be working -- that's one of our points right now to find out why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCCORMICK: Now, Stacy Moody, Scott's 15-year-old sister, is the sole survivor of this. I just checked on her a few minutes ago and she remains in critical condition at the Ohio State University Medical Center. Live in Columbus, I'm Shannon McCormick. Back to you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Shannon. Such a terrible, terrible story.

As Americans remember those who have died in the war on terror, today two U.S. citizens are arrested on terrorism charges. Why authorities believe the men may have been conspiring to aid al Qaeda members.

And we'll take you to one of Saddam Hussein's former palaces where American troops take time out to remember their fallen friends.

Now, here is a look at some stories you may have missed this past weekend.

(voice-over): Oscar-winning movie director Oliver Stone was arrested in Beverly Hills after being stopped at a police checkpoint. Police say he's suspected of driving while intoxicated and possessing illegal drugs. Stone was held overnight in jail before posting a $15,000 bond. Air show crash. A pilot suffered critical injuries when his home-built plane crashed during a race at an air show in Oklahoma. The cause has not been determined.

Rough river, rescue crews had to pull at least 20 boaters from the rough waters of the Potomac River, after storms disrupted this year's annual Dragon Boat Festival and Race in Washington, D.C.. There were no serious injuries.

Coming close, Danica Patrick lost her bid to become the first woman to win the Indianapolis 500. Patrick had the lead with seven laps to go. But Dan Wheldon passed her to come in first. And Patrick finished fourth.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back on this Memorial Day.

Accused of aiding Al Qaeda, the FBI arrest two Americans, one doctor and one martial arts instructor. Did they help the enemy from within? A live report is next.

But first, a quick check of other stories now in the news.

Deadly violence in Karachi, Pakistan. Authorities say a man blew himself up inside a Shiite mosque, killing himself and bystanders. Another attacker and a police officer were killed during an ensuing gun battle. In the aftermath, rioting broke out and several businesses were burned.

A very different story. A sticky situation for a horse and rider near Los Angeles. They both became trapped in thick mud this morning and had to be rescued by emergency crews. There were no serious injuries for man or horse.

In our CNN security watch, two Americans are scheduled to appear in court tomorrow to face charges they conspired to help Al Qaeda. One of the men, Rafiq Sabir, is a doctor who investigators say planned to treat injured jihadists in Saudi Arabia.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is live in New York with us, more on the accused and the FBI sting that led to their arrest.

Hi, Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Judy.

Well, in the criminal complaint, there was a lot of talk, talk of training Al Qaeda terrorists in martial arts and hand-to-hand combat, talk of treating wounded Muslim fighters, talk that has those two Americans facing charges of planning to help Al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden. Now, Dr. Rafiq Sabir, as you mentioned, was arrested at his home in Boca Raton, Florida, over the weekend. Tarik Shah was arrested at his apartment in the Bronx. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: These men have been under surveillance. It doesn't look like they really did very much, but, you know, you wonder what can cause people to not appreciate the freedoms that we have. And we saw what happens when you don't go after terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, in the complaint, it seems that Shah did most of the talking, first to a convicted robber-turned-government-informant wearing a wire and then to an undercover FBI agent posing as a jihad recruiter for Osama bin Laden. Prosecutors say that Shah even scoped out a Long Island warehouse as a possible place for training, while Sabir, an emergency room doctor in Palm Beach County, Florida, was ready to leave to Saudi Arabia this week.

Both Sabir and Shah allegedly swore an oath of allegiance to bin Laden. Both face one count of material support of terrorism. Repeated calls to family and lawyers went unanswered. They will answer the charges themselves Tuesday -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: All right. Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.

CNN is committed to bringing you the most reliable news about your security. Stay tuned to CNN, day and night.

As we reported at the top of the hour, Operation Lightning is underway in Iraq. U.S. military officials now confirm that the major counterinsurgency offensive began in the last several days. Ten thousand American troops are said to be assisting 40,000 Iraqi forces in operating checkpoints and conducting raids. Meanwhile, American forces in Baghdad took time to honor their fallen comrades this Memorial Day. This ceremony was held at Camp Victory, which it located at one of Saddam Hussein's former palaces.

Now a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

French fallout. President Jacques Chirac appears poised to remove his prime minister. That comes one day after French voters rejected a proposed European Union constitution in a humiliating defeat for the Chirac government.

Turning point in Lebanon. Anti-Syrian candidates swept elections in Beirut, the first free of Syrian influence in 29 years. Leading the way, Saad Hariri, son of the anti-Syrian former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated in February.

Australian outrage. Anti-Indonesian signs have cropped up calling for a boycott of Bali. They are in response to last week's sentencing of Schapelle Corby who was given 20 years by an Indonesian court for drug smuggling, a charge she denies. Mystery man clue. A British newspaper reports that a mute piano player who was found wandering in southeast England last month may be a missing Czech musician. It is one of some 250 leads that have poured in on the so-called piano man.

And that's our look around the world.

Interrogating Hitler's right-hand man. We will meet the former American soldier who pried the truth of the Nazi horror from Herman Goering.

And final salute. They fell in the battle on hill 665. Four decades later, they are at home and at rest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. We are live this Memorial Day at the Marine Corps War Memorial, depicting the raising of the American flag on Iwo Jima in February, 1945. That iconic event was followed three months later by another important World War II milestone, the surrender of Nazi Herman Goering.

CNN's David Ensor spoke with the man who interrogated Goering for the U.S. Army.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At 86, John Dolibois is one of the few still alive who knows firsthand what top Nazis were really like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reich martial Herman Goering at 7th Army Headquarters in Argbort (ph), Germany, after surrendering to the U.S....

ENSOR: In 1945, he was a U.S. Army interrogator assigned to air martial Herman Goering and other top Nazi prisoners. His mission? Help prosecutors at the Nuremburg Tribunal decide who to try for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Goering, he says, was one of the worst war criminals, but he was interesting.

JOHN DOLIBOIS, FORMER U.S. ARMY INTERROGATOR: Goering was a lot of fun.

ENSOR (on-screen): A lot of fun?

DOLIBOIS: Fun, oh, yes. He was a good guy to party with. Goering had a little black book in which he wrote down all of the underground jokes being told about himself by the German people, about Hitler, him, the Nazi people.

He collected jokes, jokes for which you could be sent to concentration camp if you're caught telling them. But he collected them. That's kind of weird, but it amused me. And if he was in a good mood, he would tell you these jokes. That made him interesting. He was interesting, also, because he was a dope addict. He was shot in the groin during the push in 1923 when he was at Hitler's side. And he went through a very intensive recovery period during which he became addicted to morphine.

ENSOR (voice-over): Dolibois and other interrogators lived with over 80 Nazi prisoners for months at a hotel turned into a prison. It was in Luxembourg which, as it happens, is the nation of his birth.

(on-screen): What sorts of characters did you run into in that palace hotel?

DOLIBOIS: Probably the most interesting psychologically was Julius Streicher, the jail baiter. He was interesting because he was such an obnoxious, disgusting individual. He was a Jew-baiter, a hater. He was a sexologist. His...

ENSOR: Sexologist?

DOLIBOIS: He was an expert on sex. He knew all about pornography. And he loved to talk about abnormal sex. You had it, just as I say, he was disgusting.

ENSOR: And what happened to him? What was his sentence?

DOLIBOIS: He was hanged.

ENSOR (voice-over): Dolibois says it wasn't that difficult to get most of the top Nazis to talk. They had no idea they could be tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity. Before Nuremberg there was no such concept. Plus, some liked to boast or to transfer blame.

DOLIBOIS: They squealed on each other, put the blame on somebody else. "I had nothing to do with this, but he did. And he's a swine. You should really get him."

ENSOR (on-screen): Did you ever use any kinds of pressure to get information?

DOLIBOIS: The only pressure we ever used was, "Well, look, if you don't want to cooperate for your own good, we'll just send you over to the Soviet Union. They have ways of getting information. Would you rather go there?"

ENSOR: That must have been effective, I imagine.

DOLIBOIS: That opened up a lot of mouths, yes. And we didn't have to do that very often.

ENSOR: As somebody who participated in these interrogations of Nazis all these years ago, now, when you hear about the scandals in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, what do you think?

DOLIBOIS: They're being tried and have been tried. They're being punished, maybe not as severely as I would punish them, because they give our country a bad name, a bad reputation and helped fuel the flames that made anti-Americanism even more vicious and bitter.

But what they did is in violation of the rules. They were having fun. They were not carrying out an interrogation technique.

ENSOR (voice-over): Nazi interrogator John Dolibois, his most famous prisoner, Herman Goering, cheated the hangman after Nuremberg using cyanide poison that he had hidden inside a false tooth.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: That was riveting.

Coming up next, almost four decades after they were killed fighting for their country, the remains of four Vietnam veterans finally are at home on this Memorial Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: I'm Judy Woodruff in for Wolf Blitzer.

And we are live this Memorial Day at the Marine Corps War Memorial depicting the raising of the U.S. flag on Iwo Jima.

Twenty-two years later, another battle in another war would mark the beginning of four families' long quest to bring their loved ones home. CNN's Brian Todd joins me with that story.

Hi, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, that was a struggle that took those four families nearly four decades to resolve. But recently, in a spot not very far from this place, they got that resolution.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): Irene Healea always knew what happened to her brother but had no finality. On an idyllic morning at Arlington National Cemetery, she got it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother was a great guy. He was a hero.

TODD: Healea and members of three other families waited 38 years for this moment, 38 years since her brother, U.S. Marine Lieutenant Heinz Ahlmeyer, Jr., landed on one of those untakeable hills in Vietnam. May 1967, Lieutenant Ahlmeyer and six others move onto a ridgeline near the Laotian border.

Recon Team Breaker, as they're called, is ordered to gather intelligence on enemy infiltration routes. Ahlmeyer has only been in country for about two weeks and is on his first combat mission.

One member of his team knows how dangerous this will be. In a letter home written the night before, Sergeant James Neil-Teiss (ph) tells his parents, "Our lieutenant passed me the word that we go in at 7:30 a.m. tomorrow. None of us want to go, but that's our job. And I pray I will never fail to do it."

The next day, on that hill, published reports say a force of at least 30 North Vietnamese troops practically stumbles over the seven Americans. The marines fight nobly but can't withstand the onslaught.

BRITT FRIERY, MEMBER OF "RT BREAKER": Before we could take them out, they had fired an automatic burst that wounded Lieutenant Ahlmeyer very seriously, wounded Sergeant Teiss (ph), as well.

TODD: Ahlmeyer, Teiss, Navy Corpsman Malcolm Miller (ph), and Marine Lance Corporal Samuel Sharp, Jr., (ph) are killed almost immediately. At least one helicopter that moves in to evacuate them is shot down. The hill is napalmed. A survivor on the ground frantically radios for help.

RON ZACZEK, MEMBER OF RESCUE TEAM: And he kept saying, you know, "OK, you've got to get us out. We're burning up. We're burning up. You've got to come in. You've got to get us out."

TODD: The remaining marines are rescued. But the hill is so dangerous, the military says, that the bodies of the dead must be left there. What no one imagines is that they'll stay there for more than 30 years. Combat during the war, hostility between the two countries afterward, make it impossible to get them out.

IRENE HEALEA, HEINZ AHLMEYER'S SISTER: I really didn't think, you know, after all these years, that they would find my brother. But I'm very, very grateful.

TODD: Earlier this year, Healea and relatives of the three others get word. Diplomacy has paid off. Excavation teams were finally allowed on that hill. Remains of teeth and other markings have been identified. Her brother is coming home.

Heinz Ahlmeyer, Jr., James Neil-Teiss (ph), and Malcolm Miller (ph) now rest at Arlington. Samuel Sharp, Jr., (ph) honored in this ceremony, is buried back home in California. Another man on that hill remains haunted.

FRIERY: I didn't think I would get out of there. When we went in there, we thought we wouldn't get out of there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: And so many remain. According to the Department of Defense, more than 1,800 Americans are still officially listed as missing from the Vietnam War -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Brian, these families, had they given up hope before the word came about this excavation and so forth?

TODD: At least one of them had. Irene Healea, the one we feature in here, we had talked to her extensively before we did this piece. And she actually had given up hope. They thought, "38 years, there's no way we're going to get them back."

WOODRUFF: Do we know how many other active excavations or efforts are underway to recover these other 1,800, because their families are waiting, too.

TODD: Right, exactly. Several are ongoing. We don't know exactly how many. And it kind of ebbs and flows as things get going between the U.S. and the Vietnam government on different occasions. But it's an ongoing thing. And hopefully, we'll be getting some more back soon.

WOODRUFF: I know, for the longest time, the MIA families and those organizations were very active at pushing, pushing for more information, but you don't hear as much about this...

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: You don't hear as much about them anymore. And it's just not the Vietnam War. There are, I think, more than 80,000 Americans still listed from MIA from all the recent -- at least the recent wars the United States has fought. So it's a really heartbreaking thing.

WOODRUFF: It may be hard for the rest of us to understand, but for those families, just having these remains and even many years later makes an enormous difference.

TODD: Absolutely. You hate to use the word closure, but they can at least visit their loved ones in a certain place, go there any time they want, and they know that they're there, not some hill far, far away.

WOODRUFF: And seeing them honored makes an enormous difference.

TODD: Absolutely.

WOODRUFF: Brian Todd, thank you very much for bringing us that story.

Well, it has been a Memorial Day to remember. Straight ahead, I look back at the sights and sounds across the nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Known as a peacemaker, a warrior, and perennial statesman, Shimon Peres has held the office of Israeli prime minister two times and had his hand in building Israel's military arsenal. For years, with tongue-in-cheek, he referred to the country's secret nuclear facility as a textile factory.

SHIMON PERES, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The textile is out of business. You know, people are going for high-tech today. But the textile business achieved its basic aim as a deterrent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Then there is the peaceful side of Shimon Peres. He won the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Yitzhak Rabin and Yassir Arafat for their roles in the Oslo Peace Accord. Peres established the Peres Center for Peace with the hopes of creating a new Middle East.

The father of three and grandfather of seven has also written several books. This year, 81-year-old Peres returned to the Israeli government as part of an Ariel Sharon-led coalition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: The Marine Corps War Memorial here in Arlington, Virginia, is just one of many focal points for today's Memorial Day observances. There were ceremonies across the country, including Washington, D.C.'s, first Memorial Day parade since World War II.

Our picture of the day is a look at just a few of today's events.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE MANTEGNA, ACTOR: Here it is, Memorial Day weekend. And this is the time that we need to at least take pause for however long it may be and we would like to think for at least the reason we have this great holiday weekend to do our barbecues, and going to the beach, and going to the races is that there are military all over the world who have and are continuing to put their life on the line. And so this is the time for us to pay our respects to them.

COL. RON JOHNSON, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I think that people ought to stop and reflect on what these great Americans have done for us. I owe it to all those servicepeople that were before me in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, who sacrificed so much. Now, I start to reflect on their service to their country. So not only do I think of my guys, I also think about how great they made our country and what they gave us.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: So today we remember our troops in harm's way, just as we remember all those who selflessly defended our freedom in the past, all those who toiled, all those who sacrifice, to build an abiding peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: And our thanks to all those who have given their lives for this country.

Remember, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS at this time, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thanks for joining us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right after this news update from Rick Sanchez standing by at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

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