Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Detained Americans in North Korea Speak Out; British Anti- Terror Powers

Aired September 01, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, three Americans held in North Korea speak to CNN, telling us about the conditions there and pleading for the U.S. government to bring them home.

And right now, in direct terms, British Prime Minister David Cameron lays out his plan to combat ISIS and protest his country. Does President Obama need to follow suit. And pool party at the U.S. embassy? Libyan rebels take over at least part of the abandoned complex and create a scene that looks a whole lot like spring break.

Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar reporting from Washington. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment.

And we start with a rare glimpse from inside North Korea. The normally secretive nation gave our Will Ripley access to the three Americans being held there, Kenneth Bae, Jeffrey Fowle and Matthew Miller. The interviews came with restrictions, which we'll talk about in a few moments. But let's start with Kenneth Bae who's been there the longest. He is in the upper right of your screen. North Korea claims that he was part of a Christian plot to overthrow the government.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KENNETH BAE: I'm serving 15 year-sentence right now. And I've been -- I've been going back and forth from hospital to the labor camp the last year and a half. And right now, I'm serving at the labor camp right now.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN TOKYO CORRESPONDENT: Can you tell me about the conditions at the labor camp?

BAE: Condition in the labor camp is I'm working eight hours a day, six days a week and working agricultural work to other hard labor that is required to do every day.

RIPLEY: Do you think you're being treated humanely?

BAE: Yes.

RIPLEY: And your message to your family?

BAE: Well, I'm sure they're very worried about my health at this time. And even though right now, like, last month and a half, my health has been -- or so, not -- it's been fairly so right now what I can say to my family and friends that is to continue to pray for me and also ask them to continue on that for -- in getting me released here.

RIPLEY: Your message for the American government?

BAE: For the American government right now, I've been asking the American government to act upon getting me released here and I do believe that special envoy need to come in order to resolve the situation that I'm in right now. So, I do ask the U.S. governments to send an envoy as soon as possible. And I don't -- I think that's the only hope that I have right now in order for me to go home and be reunited with my family.

RIPLEY: Where's the bottom line about your situation here and the message that you want to put out to the world?

BAE: So, right now is that I'm here. I've been here for almost two years now. And then -- and I do believe that I've been treated humanely as possible. They have -- they have been doing that for me. But at the same time, I realize, at this point, that is I've been here -- I think I'm the American that's been here the longest since the Korean War. And I do believe that the sooner that this gets resolved, it will be better for not only myself, for rest of the other Americans may come here in the future as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Will Ripley interviewed Kenneth Bae and the two other Americans joining me on the phone from Pyongyang, North Korea. I wonder, Will, just how surprised were you to be given this access to these three men?

RIPLEY: We were very surprised, Brianna, because we put in this request when we arrived five days ago when we arrived here in Pyongyang. And we were told then that any interview with the detained Americans was virtually impossible.

And then, the past few days, we've essentially been going on a government-controlled tour of all of the must-see sites around North Korea. That's what often happens with foreign journalists who come here. You see monuments. You see museums.

And today, we were two hours north of the capital eating lunch, getting ready to go see a temple in the afternoon, after seeing a display of all the gifts that had been presented to these three leaders in North Korea, members of the Kim family.

In the middle of lunch, I was pulled away from the table and told that we were to get on a van right away and head back to Pyongyang, because we were going to speaking with a government official which that alone was surprising to us.

As we drove, our minders were on the phone, at one point. They pulled over, stepped away from the van, made more phone calls. And we kept driving towards the capital, drove to this hotel and conference center. We still didn't know really where we were. It was a different route than we'd been taking this entire week that we'd been here.

And as we were standing by the front door, we were told that there had been another change of plans and we were going to be granted interviews with all three Americans who were being held here right now under the conditions that we not exceed five minutes and that we only talk about the charges they're facing, the treatment that they're getting and the message that they have for their families and for the U.S. government.

KEILAR: All right, Will, and you interviewed all three of these Americans. I want to point out a part of your interview with Jeffrey Fowle. He was accused of leaving a bible in his hotel room.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFFREY FOWLE: I'd like to thank you guys for being here. I appreciate you taking the time to come and see me.

RIPLEY: Yes.

FOWLE: Take my message out to the world.

RIPLEY: Good to see you. First of all, can you tell us about the charges that you're facing as you've been told?

FOWLE: The charges are the violation of DPRK law which stems from me trying to leave a bible up at the men's (ph) club at Chungjing on a rails (ph) trip of the DPRK. I've -- (INAUDIBLE) the violation of the tourist purpose as well. And I admitted my guilt to the government and assigned a statement to that effect and I've also put in a request for forgiveness to the people and the government of the DPRK.

And the legal process is ongoing right now, and it's in the final stages of the preliminary investigation. It's at the prosecutor's office and they say that the trial will be forthcoming soon. And so, time is getting urgent. I tell you, within a month, I should be facing trial and sentencing will be right after that. And so, I'll tell you guys to convey my desperate situation which I'm 56. I'm from the Dayton, Ohio area.

RIPLEY: Yes, we know your background, sir. We know your family background. I'll ask you, how are you being treated here?

FOWLE: Very -- reasonably well. I don't have any complaints. The food's been good. I've got a daily walk with the guides. Even medical care has been furnished a couple of times. And the quarter's good. I've got a hotel suite type of room. So, I don't have any complaint about the treatment. It's been very good so far. And I hope and pray it continues, whether I'm here two more days or two more decades, whatever the case is.

RIPLEY: So, the bottom line, your message about your conditions here and your situation? FOWLE: I'm good for the time being but I need to let people know that

I'm getting desperate. I'm getting desperate for help. This is -- I understand that there are three Americans in detention now here in the DPRK which I think is the most since the Pueblo incident.

RIPLEY: You have no communication with the others?

FOWLE: No, no. I know the name of the third guy. Kenneth Bae has been here the longest. Kenneth Bae. I'm sure he's desperate to get back. And this is an opportunity for maybe Bill Clinton to come back. He has released a couple of journalists a few years back. May George Bush, it's his turn as an elders statesman to try his hand at that. I appreciate any help that they could lend. Helping resolve their cases and bring us home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Will, it seems that Jeffrey is reading off of notes there during the interview. How coached did you think he was? Were these his notes or do you think this is what he was instructed to stick to?

RIPLEY: They were notes that he wrote. It appeared it be in English. I don't know what his handwriting looks like but it seemed like he wrote that down to try and organize his thoughts. You may have noticed, I was moving the interview along at times. And the reason for that is that we had a group of North Korean officials in the room watching us and timing us and we had a very limited time.

We were warned explicitly not to go over or veer off topic. We were told the consequences for that would be severe without getting into the detail. That's what we were -- that's all we were told. And that was enough for us to stick within the guidelines. And we were also being recorded with video cameras and we had multiple government officials watching us and photographing the interview as well.

KEILAR: All right, Will, interesting details and very important to put that in context. Stay with us. Up next, we're going to be hearing from the third American held in North Korea. We're going to hear his message to the White House.

And before meeting with the three Americans held, CNN gained a rare glimpse into life in North Korea. Beyond the fancy monuments that the government wants the world to see are images that it likely would rather keep a secret.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Back to North Korea now. Matthew Miller was detained in April after allegedly tearing up his tourist visa and asking for asylum. Here's what he told our Will Ripley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: What is your message to your family?

MATTHEW MILLER: First of all, I'll just say my message to my governments. I've been requesting help for a long time and there's been no movement from my governments. The American government is known for having a strong policy of protecting its citizens. Yet, for my case, there is still no movements. I've written a letter to my presidents with no reply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Joining me now to talk about this is Georgetown Professor Balbina Hwang. She is the former special adviser to the assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs. North Korea, Dr. Hwang, does not communicate with the United States. But this seem like a public message. Give us your take here.

DR. BALBINA HWANG, PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Oh, yes, indeed. Well, it sounds as if it was very fortuitous for CNN to happen to be in North Korea at the time. Given the world-wide attention on the recently executed U.S. American reporter by the ISIS, I think there's now global attention paid on Americans that are detained in dangerous foreign countries. And I'm certain that the North Korean regime is taking opportunity -- this opportunity to raise its profile to the American government in this manner.

KEILAR: And you certainly see these detainees emphasizing that their treatment is acceptable. I mean, we heard that repeatedly from them. What -- there's obviously -- I imagine North Korea is looking for a White House response here. Should the White House respond and how?

HWANG: Well, I think the White House ought to be very careful, as it has been. There are reports that the United States actually did send a relatively high delegation on a secret mission to North Korea recently in the last week or so. We heard reports that they flew on a U.S. military jet. Presumably, it was to further some progress on gaining the release of these detainees.

But certainly, North Korea, what they want is another very, very high- profile visit. For example, from Jimmy Carter or as in the case of the previous two reporters, Euna Lee and Miss Ling, you know, there were reports that Albert Gore, the vice president -- the former vice president, would go to North Korea. It's very clear that this is what Kim Jong-Un and the North Korean regime want, another extremely high- profile visit from the United States.

KEILAR: Can you tell us more about that delegation that went? Do we have a sense of who was in the delegation? And do you read these interviews being allowed by North Korean officials as some measure of success by that delegation?

HWANG: Well, I'm not so certain from our point of view if we can call it a success, only because if the North Koreans insist that we send a very high level, high profile former government official, such as former President Carter, I actually don't view that a success. I think it's a dangerous precedent. And in a way I think it's -- it's rather unfortunate because this means that every time a U.S. citizen does something that is, you know, not considered satisfactory by the North Korean government, they're going to use this as leverage. So I actually think the Obama administration was right to try to send in a very low profile, back channel manner. Unfortunately, I suppose, it was revealed to the press and it was leaked. So we now know some details, although they are not - they have not yet been confirmed.

KEILAR: It's sort of, in a way, North Korea saying to the U.S., you know, we want you to jump, and trying to make the U.S. jump here, trying to provoke a response. But I wonder, interviews with all three of these detained Americans, what's the point of allowing interviews with all three, is it to show that they're being treated well?

HWANG: Well, that is certainly an important message. Again, North Korean's try to take advantage of the global situation and, you know, a worldwide and certainly western concerns about the treatment of these detainees, they want to show they're very different from ISIS and other terrorist groups that act in barbaric ways. That these are, in fact, according to their laws, supposedly, which they have broken, that they are following their rule of law. At the same time, they're, again, trying to raise the profile.

KEILAR: Yes, they often are looking for a reaction. And certainly this is some sort of provocation. We will see how it plays out. Dr. Hwang, thanks so much for your expertise.

HWANG: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Next, U.S. airstrikes providing support for Iranian backed fighters. An unlikely scenario here for two countries fighting a common enemy, and that would be ISIS, of course. This as the president faces mounting pressure to take stronger action against the terror group.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Just moments ago, U.S. Central Command released a statement detailing new air strikes against ISIS near the Mosul Dam, destroying an armed vehicle, a mortar position, three trucks there. All of this as Iranian backed fighters, aided by U.S. strikes, helped Iraqi forces take down the town of Amarali (ph), breaking a two-month siege before ISIS could make good on a threat to kill thousands of Shiites.

Meanwhile, in the U.S., lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are criticizing President Obama's handling of the ISIS threat. Arizona Senator John McCain calling on the president to put forward a, quote, "clear strategy," a reference to the controversy that erupted last week when the president admitted there was no strategy for targeting ISIS inside of Syria. And Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein, well, she also came out against President Obama, suggesting his approach to ISIS might be, quote, "too cautious."

Just days after raising the terror threat level in the U.K. to severe, British Prime Minister David Cameron today asked the House of Commons for more powers to protect the U.K. from ISIS. Among his proposals, new measures that would temporarily blocking the return of British citizens who fight in Syria and Iraq, also stripping the passports of those citizens suspected of terrorism and the prime minister said the U.K. needs to take a new approach in the fight against extremism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, we are proud to be an open, free and tolerant nation. But that tolerance must never be confused with a passive acceptance of cultures living separate lives or people behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values. Adhering to British values is not an option or a choice, it is a duty for all those who live in these islands. So we will stand up for our values. We will, in the end, defeat this extremism and we will secure our way of life for generations to come. And I commend this statement to the house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Tom Rogan is a national review contributor and a columnist for "The Daily Telegraph."

Tom, you heard the prime minister's proposals here. How, I guess, stringent do you see these to be? Does this go far enough?

TOM ROGAN, NATIONAL REVIEW CONTRIBUTOR: I think they're very stringent and I think what they reflect is the concern on the part of the British government that when these individuals return to the U.K., MI- 5, the domestic intelligence service, won't actually have the resources to deal with them. The question about how stringent they are though is interesting because there are tensions inside the British government, coalition government, with the liberal Democrats who's a more left-leaning party about perhaps whether these movements to reduce the ability of British nationals to come back are excessive and breach human rights. So there will be a big debate coming up in the coming days.

KEILAR: But it - and you say there wouldn't be enough resources when they come back. Obviously, that would be if fighters came back and they had to be monitored. I mean the number of man hours it would take from law enforcement would be incredible. But I also wonder, these restrictions on passports, is it fool proof because -- aren't some of these people who are going from Britain to fight in Syria, you don't -- they don't necessarily have a stamp on their passport. You can't always tell that they've gone to the region or specifically to fight on behalf of ISIS.

ROGAN: Exactly. And I think the British government absolutely knows that, but their concern is that they're just trying to do anything that they can to try and mitigate this threat because, of course, as you know, the lot of people coming from the U.K. or France will go through Istanbul or to southern Turkey, fly into different resorts (ph), so they have a Turkish stamp on their passports and then they simply cross into Syria. So it is very hard. And, absolutely, it's an imperfect solution. But, again, they know that. They're still pursuing it. And I think that reflects the deep vein of concern in the British government.

KEILAR: Yes, they have to do something, even if it's not 100 percent.

ROGAN: Right. Exactly. KEILAR: Let's take a look at this graphic that we have. Prime Minister Cameron said there are about 500 British citizens who are fighting in Syria. France actually had a bigger problem, 700 or more. Russia, more than 800. You look at the reach here of ISIS into the west. What strikes you about these numbers?

ROGAN: Well, what I think it reflects is that across Europe there is a great problem in terms of social dissection, that there are significant elements of the Muslim communities of different nations, whether it's British-Pakistanis, French-Algerians, whatever it might be, who feel that they have no links to the country that they would otherwise call home. And clearly when you see those vast numbers of people, there's a great concern about the terrorist threat, but also about the longer term, what does this say about our societies and what can these governments do to try and bring people into a better, you know, binding with their communities, with their countries?

KEILAR: And you hear Prime Minister Cameron really outlining that problem. This is a generational fight, he's saying. Is this problem that the U.K. has, that Europe has, is it unique to that area? Is this a problem that the U.S. has as well?

ROGAN: Well, I think the United States has, to some degree, has the problem. There have been issues, especially mentioned with regards to the American Somali community with young men going to Somalia and fighting with al Shabab. But I think it's a much deeper issue in Europe. And, you know, as an American who grew up in London, it was always aware to me that there is -- it is less of a multicultural homogenous community than perhaps it would be presented to be on the outside. And that actually, in the United States, one of the great things that we can be happy about is that we do have community cohesion to a degree that is very good.

I know Ferguson gets mentioned a lot, but in Europe there are real problems there that we don't see in the United States. Of course, with American passport holders in Syria, Iraq, with ISIS, and European passport holders who could then travel to the United States, there's a clear threat as well that needs to be addressed.

KEILAR: Yes, it is. And we're waiting to see exactly how the government is planning to do that here. Tom Rogan, thank you so much.

ROGAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: Amateur video out of Libya raising eyebrows, concerns as well. Militia members caught on tape frolicking in a pool at the abandoned U.S. embassy that they were supposed to be guarding. So what does it say about overall stability in the country?

Plus, American Kenneth Bae says he spent the last 18 months in either hospitals or labor camps. We'll be taking a closer look at Bae's story and how he ended up in North Korea hands.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)