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Interview with Rep. Eliot Engel; What Will It Take to Defeat ISIS; Who is Doing What in Fight Against ISIS; 2016 Race for White House Already Getting Hotter; Defeating ISIS; Domestic Extremism

Aired September 15, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington. We begin with the latest act of barbarism by the terror group known as ISIS, and a report that Britain's prime minister knows the identity of the man who actually carried it out. Over the weekend, ISIS posted a video of the beheading of the British aid worker, David Haines. The terror group called the killing a message to the allies of America.

With a ramped up strategy, is the U.S. on the right path right now? Representative Eliot Engel of New York is joining us. He's the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, thanks very much for coming in. Is the U.S. on the right path right now to destroy ISIS?

REP. ELIOT ENGEL (D), NEW YORK: I think we are. I don't think we have a choice. I think the way the president laid it out the other night in his address to the American people was quite right. It's not simply a matter of choice. ISIS is very dangerous. They're at least as dangerous as Al Qaeda was. Al Qaeda perpetuated the attacks on September 11th. And if we don't destroy ISIS, there will be attacks on our homeland. There's no doubt about that.

BLITZER: How long is that going to take to destroy ISIS?

ENGEL: Well, I don't know. I'm not a military planner but I think as long as it takes, we need to do it. We need to have our allies. We need to have Arab allies. This cannot be the United States going into a country again for a regime change.

BLITZER: Because the U.S. has been trying to destroy Al Qaeda since 911. That's 13 years ago. Al Qaeda is still in business and various forms core Al Qaeda. Ayman Al Zawahiri, the leader of Al Qaeda, he was number two to Bin Laden, he's still at large. Al Qaeda in the Arabian at large. Al Qaeda in the Maghreb. All of these other offshoots, they are still there. This could take a long time to destroy ISIS.

ENGEL: Well, it could, fighting terrorism takes a long time. Ask Israel. I don't care whether it's Al Qaeda or ISIS or Hezbollah or Hamas, they're all terrorists and they want to use terrorism to achieve their political aims. BLITZER: So, this is like the war on poverty or the war on -- the war

on drugs. This is going to go on and on. This three-year notion that the U.S. can destroy ISIS in three years which the Obama administration has been laying out, that's unrealistic? Is that your assessment?

ENGEL: Well, no, I don't know if it's three years or two years or four years. I don't think it matters. I think what matters is that we are -- we are going after them. I think the public opinion shifted with these beheadings. It shows how brutal they are. They kill people for the wrong religion or even the right religion, children, women. These are a bad group. And it's not simply a matter of trying to be the world's policeman. I really believe that they pose a direct threat to our homeland so it's in the American national interest to act.

BLITZER: Well, if it's in the American national interest to act, why just with air power? Why not go in there on the ground and crush them?

ENGEL: Well, because I think Americans are war weary. I'm war weary.

BLITZER: Well, if it's such a big threat, the United States has got to do that, right?

ENGEL: No, I think -- as the president originally laid it out, I think, right now, we can start with air strikes and see where it takes us. I mean, --

BLITZER: Because they have a real army over there. They're not just a bunch of terrorists running around. They've got tanks. They've got armored personnel carriers. They've got military officers who are trained, some by Saddam Hussein's regime, some trained by the United States over the past decade. We -- the U.S. trained them, armed them, financed them. Sunni Iraqis, they defected because they don't like the Shiite-led regime in Baghdad. They are working ISIS right now. This is a real army.

ENGEL: Yes, a real army.

BLITZER: You can't defeat a real army just by the air.

ENGEL: Well, I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves. I think we should take these steps which are very prudent. If we have an international coalition as the president is trying to do, as Secretary Kerry is trying to do, I think we can defeat them. We do have troops on the ground. We have the Kurds. We have the Iraqis. There may be some more down the line with Special Forces. But right now, I think we can degrade and destroy ISIS the way the president has laid it out.

BLITZER: When you say Special Forces, U.S. Special Forces?

ENGEL: Well, I don't know.

BLITZER: Because those -- that would be U.S. combat boots on the ground. ENGEL: I'm not for boots on the ground right now. I think that no

one's talking about an invasion of Iraq the way we had in 2002 or 2003 and occupying it. We are trying to remove cancer. And as you mentioned, Wolf, they're absolutely formidable and I think every day of delay is another day that they're there beheading people and doing things. I think we really need to act. I think it's very compelling. I, as you know, was for aiding the free Syria army two years ago. I'm glad we're finally going to try to aid the Syrians in Syria because you cannot go after ISIS just in Iraq. They're also in Syria.

BLITZER: But is it too late because that free Syrian army is pretty weak. They don't even control much of the area. They got Al Nusra, a terrorist organization, some elements of the free Syrian army are aligned with Al Nusra. Right now, it's itself fighting ISIS. But that's a spinoff of Al Qaeda. Do you feel comfortable giving weapons to the free Syrian army which could wind up in the hands of Al Nusra?

ENGEL: Well, it is late but better late than never. And we're not giving weapons --

BLITZER: So, you do feel comfortable doing that?

ENGEL: Well, we're going to vet them, we're going to train them. It's not simply taking weapons and handing them over to the free Syrian army.

BLITZER: The U.S. vetted the Iraqi army and all those weapons in Mosul, the second largest city in Iraq, are in the hands of ISIS right now.

ENGEL: Well, we've made mistakes for sure in the past and hopefully we're moving along the way we should do in --

BLITZER: But you feel comfortable with the president's strategy.

ENGEL: Yes, and I think they are very tough choices. None of them are good. The worst choice, in my opinion, would be to do nothing. And I think the president has laid out a very prudent course of action. I support that.

BLITZER: Are you and the chairman of your committee, Ed Royce, on the same page?

ENGEL: Well, you'll have to ask him.

BLITZER: Well, based on your conversations with him.

ENGEL: Well, I think he understands that there's a threat, that ISIS is a threat and America cannot just allow people being beheaded and all kinds of brutality that will affect our homeland. I would assume that his views are similar to mine but you --

BLITZER: I'm just trying to get a sense if there's a broad consensus in the House of Representatives. Will you vote for the $500 million to fund the moderate Syrian opposition? ENGEL: I absolutely will. You know, we have been trying, Chairman

Royce and I in the Foreign Affairs Committee, to run it in the most bipartisan way we can. We pride ourselves that we are the most bipartisan committee in the Congress. Foreign policy needs to be bipartisan. So, I think every member has got to do what he or she thinks is best. But for me, it's an easy choice. ISIS has to be stopped.

BLITZER: All right, Congressman Eliot Angel, the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Thanks for coming in.

ENGEL: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: The French president, Francois Hollande, says there's no time to lose in this fight against ISIS. France, today, hosted an international conference on confronting the terrorist group. The secretary of state, John Kerry, attended the conference, representing the United States. He says almost 40 countries, his words, 40 countries have agreed to contribute to the fight. Middle Eastern countries are willing to help with strikes against ISIS, he says. Iran says it will not cooperate with the U.S. and the U.S. says it will not cooperate with Iran.

Our Correspondent Fred Pleitgen is joining us now from Paris. Fred, do we have a clearer picture of what role these countries are willing to play other than just uttering some lip service in support of the U.S. strategy?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there certainly is a lot more than lip service, Wolf. And it certainly seems as though this coalition against ISIS is something that seems to be coming together. Certainly, secretary of state Kerry's work was absolutely instrumental. His -- all of his trips to the Middle East that he's been conducting over the past couple of weeks. And what we're getting here in Paris is, really, very little more than general statements. But we are getting the feeling that this coalition really is coming together.

Now, one of the things that we read today in that final communicate that came out of this meeting is that they said that they would do everything in their power to help the Iraqi government lead to some sort of stability, including any sort of appropriate military measures. Now, what the French president said earlier today is he said that some countries would contribute humanitarian aid, other countries would be crucial in drying up the financing for ISIS. And then, there would be those that would also have military support in line with the United States.

Now, we know that secretary of state Kerry has said that there were some Arab nations that were willing to conduct air strikes on Iraqi territory. It's not clear how far along those discussions are yet or which countries those are. But, of course, that's something that's going to be key. And you heard that again and again today in those statements is that the support, especially of Sunni majority countries, in all of this is absolutely vital because we are, of course, talking about the Sunni heartland there of Iraq and Syria where ISIS is spreading.

And so, it's very important for the people there on the ground to see that it's not just the U.S. and western countries that are doing the heavy lifting, but these Arab nations. And that was certainly a point of emphasis today at the conference that happened here in Paris. There's little (ph) that we found out but it does seem as though this coalition against ISIS is really coming together at this point -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Has any of the countries represented there where you are in Paris, Fred, European countries, middle eastern countries, agreed to put combat forces on the ground in Iraq or Syria to try to destroy ISIS?

PLEITGEN: Well, there's nothing official so far. Apparently, the U.S. -- this is something also that secretary of state Kerry said. Apparently, the U.S. has gotten some offers for combat boots on the ground. It's not clear whether or not that's something that's actually going to happen.

So far, what we're getting from European countries, they don't want to put boots on the ground. The French have said, for the first time today, their planes have started have started flying reconnaissance missions over Iraqi territory. It's not clear whether or not they'd be willing to go into the realm of air strikes. Certainly, they have hinted, in the past, that they want some sort of broader mandate. The Germans, for their part, are supplying weapons to the Kurds but have also said they're not going to put combat forces except for the ones that would be advisors, for instance, to the Kurds or to the Iraqis. That's, for instance, also something that the Australians are doing as well.

So, so far, as far as combat boots are concerned, this is something that the U.S. has been saying the entire time that they believe that pretty much all the heavy lifting is going to have to be done by the Kurds, by some militias there in Iraq and, of course, by the Iraqi military. There's very little, at least on the outside of what we're getting from the communications that are being relayed to us, of any other countries willing to put boots on the ground there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Fred Pleitgen in Paris. Stay in -- we'll stay touch with you. Thanks very much.

Coming up, he's advised six secretaries of state, as far as the Middle East is concerned. In just a moment, Aaron David Miller will join me. He'll explain why he believes President Obama's newly aggressive strategy on ISIS maybe isn't so new.

And the 2016 race for the White House already getting a little hotter. We're going to tell you what Hillary Clinton has to say about her plans. She spent the weekend in Iowa. That's the first time she's been there in nearly seven years.

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BLITZER: As the world reels from yet another horrific ISIS video, leaders from almost 40 countries, as we just reported, have been meeting today in France. The secretary of state is there as well. They're discussing how to deal with this threat ISIS poses. Kerry is stressing that European countries, European countries, they are willing to help as U.S. ramps up the fight to try to eradicate this terror group.

With us here in Washington in Aaron David Miller. He's the vice president at the Woodrow Wilson Center, a former aid, top advisor over at the State Department, also the author of a brand new book. Let me put a cover of it up on the screen, "The End of Greatness -- Why America Can't Have and Doesn't Want Another Great President." We're not going to talk about the book right now but we'll talk about that on another occasion.

AARON DAVID MILLER, PRESIDENT, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: Sure.

BLITZER: But congratulations, Aaron, on the new book, --

AARON: Thanks, appreciate it.

BLITZER: "The End of Greatness." Let's talk a little bit about the president's strategy. You wrote a provocative piece suggesting that the president wants to, in your words, kill ISIS before they kill us. You think he's got a reasonable strategy?

AARON: Well, yes, because there really is no other alternative in my judgment. Plus, it's quite consistent with who he is. I mean he's a risk averse president, except in one area, and that's when it comes to protecting the homeland. Doubling down on - in Afghanistan. He's killed more bad guys that threaten the United States with predator drones ten times the frequency as his predecessor, dismantled al Qaeda core, killed Osama bin Laden. I think this is quite consistent.

Now, again, he's not interested in another trillion dollar social science experiment by invading Iraq and certainly trying to put the Syrian Humpty Dumpty back together again, but I think he's prepared in the less than a thousand days that remains in his presidency to willfully and purposefully pursue this, we just have to be very real and not raise expectations.

BLITZER: So it's realistic to think he can degrade, he can diminish ISIS, but it's unrealistic to think he can ultimately destroy ISIS?

MILLER: Well, with a - with an emphasis on the ultimately - I mean, look, Wolf, --

BLITZER: Three years. That's what they've been saying, they can do this in three years, the end - the final two years of his administration.

MILLER: Right.

BLITZER: Maybe the next president will get a year to finish the job.

MILLER: OK. So here's the deal. Thirteen years after 9/11, 13 years, if you ask the agencies, CIA, what are the most eminent threats to the United States other than a lone wolf attack, they're not going to say ISIS, they're not going to say Iran, they're going to say al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula because they have demonstrated bomb-making capacity, they have operatives and methodology and a discipline to try to deliver an attack. No, it's not going to be three years. This terror -- fighting terror is like breathing. You basically cannot stop.

BLITZER: It's like a - it's like I say, it's like the war on drugs, the war on crime, the war on poverty. It's been going on for decades and decades and it's going to go on for decades and decades.

MILLER: Right. Right. And the fact that they don't want to use the word war, maybe it has to do with congressional equities. But it is a war and it's long term.

BLITZER: Well, because the president said we - you know, he got reelected on this, we ended the war in Iraq, we're ending the war in Afghanistan, but maybe that war has not been ended.

MILLER: Right. I think he has to be very careful when he talks about drawing a red line. This time his own self-imposed red line when it comes to the deployment of combat troops. We already have 1,800 special forces, special operators in Iraq and I'm not sure you can do the Syrian thing without special operators there too.

BLITZER: If this is such a threat, ISIS, why not coordinate with Iran? The U.S. has in the past, over the past few decades, coordinated at times, not often, with Iran. Why not coordinate with, if ISIS is such a threat, with Bashar al Assad's regime in Damascus?

MILLER: Well, implicitly, there may well be an indirect conflation of interest here. But, look, 200,000 dead Syrians, use of chemical weapons, you cannot, for political reasons, for moral reasons, for humanitarian reasons, you can't formally cooperate with Bashar. Dealing with the Iranians is another matter. But, remember, the notion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend doesn't really apply here. Iran has a very different vision for what they want out of Iraq than we do.

BLITZER: What does Iran want out of Iraq? Because it seems that they're getting a lot of what they want.

MILLER: Right. I mean -

BLITZER: The Shiite-led government in Baghdad, the new one as - including the old one too, the new one is going to be pretty close to Iran -

MILLER: Right.

BLITZER: Despite what the U.S. may want.

MILLER: And the fact is, ISIS presents a paradox because it forces the Shia community, the majority of Iraq's population, to basically depend on Iran as a consequence of the Sunni threat. So, no, they'll play the long game. We don't - we play the four to eight year game and we play checkers while they play three-dimension chess. Time is the critical component here, Wolf. We need a strategy not measured in four to eight-year increments. We need a generational strategy. And it's tough to do that in American politics.

BLITZER: All right. Aaron Miller, thanks very much for coming in.

MILLER: Always a pleasure.

BLITZER: I want to talk about the new book, "The End of Greatness," because I'm intrigued by this subtitle, "Why America Can't Have and Doesn't Want Another Great President."

MILLER: I mean what - why wouldn't we want another great president?

BLITZER: I would like another great American president.

MILLER: I would too.

BLITZER: You would too, but you say American doesn't want another great president.

MILLER: It's tough.

BLITZER: Don't tell me now.

MILLER: I won't. I won't.

BLITZER: We'll save it. The book is going to be in bookstores shortly.

MILLER: (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER: We'll discuss. Thanks very much, Aaron Miller.

MILLER: Thanks, Wolf. Thanks. Appreciate it.

BLITZER: Just ahead, while world governments are trying to figure out how to defeat ISIS in the Middle East, the U.S. government is asking you for help right here at home. We'll explain.

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BLITZER: The battle against ISIS isn't just overseas, it's also right here at home. Today, the Justice Department here in Washington announced pilot programs in cities across the United States to tackle one of the most urgent threats around, American extremists trying to join the ranks of terror groups including ISIS around the world. The attorney general, Eric Holder, laid out his plans in a speech on the Justice Department's website.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today, few threats are more urgent than the threat posed by violent extremism. And with the emergence of groups like ISIL and the knowledge that some Americans are attempting to travel to countries like Syria and Iraq to take part in ongoing conflicts, the Justice Department is responding appropriately. Through law enforcement agencies like the FBI, American authorities are working with our international partners and Interpol to disseminate information on foreign fighters in Syria and Iraq, including individuals who have traveled from the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our justice reporter, Evan Perez, is here with me in Washington.

So what does the attorney general, Evan, want to accomplish by this kind of video?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, you know, they're trying to figure out how to get an early word, an early warning signs when young people are being radicalized and possibly joining these terrorist groups. As you know, over 100 Americans have travelled to Syria to join various groups that are battling the Assad regime and over a dozen are believed to have joined ISIS. So the fear is that more of these people will travel from the United States and join these groups, or perhaps do it here, carry out an attack here in this country, and we won't even know about it until it happens, obviously.

BLITZER: Because that lone wolf fear is enormous right now.

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: Whether a Major Nadal Hasan, what we saw in Texas -

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: Or the Tsarnaev brother in Boston. That lone wolf is someone that the Justice Department, the FBI, they really worry about.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. I mean they have a very good handle on people who might be communicating with groups perhaps online. They can spot those people, I think, fairly well. The problem is, is people who you don't know about. People who are just sitting at home in the basement of their mom's home talking or reading about ISIS, what they're doing in Syria, and getting radicalized in that process and you don't know anything about it and so this is part of that effort.

BLITZER: Because that article that's in the "Inspire" magazine online, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula -

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: "How to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom," that's precisely the fear that these kinds of threats - that generate these kinds of threats.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. And as we saw in the Boston bombing, you know, these people can just come out of nowhere. We've never heard of them, never saw them, never had any indications that they were going to do something like this, and then you have a terrific (ph) attack like that. BLITZER: And they're taking a primitive step -

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: The Justice Department. The State Department, by the way, put out a video the other day as well right on this very same subject.

PEREZ: Same area.

BLITZER: They're trying to discourage people from going over there and joining ISIS or al Qaeda or al Nusra or any of these other groups.

PEREZ: A big problem they have to deal (ph) with.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Evan, for that report.

Coming up, did General Motors underestimate how many deaths were tied to its faulty ignition switch? We're going to tell you what a new report says.

And U.S. boots on the ground in Ukraine, but it's not necessarily what you think.

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