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Kerry Says Coalition Ready to Back Fight; White House Touts Syria Strategy; Senate Votes Today on Arming Syria Rebels; Interview with Sen. Dan Coats; Obama Will Not Send Combat Boots; Australia Thwarts ISIS Plot; Obama ISIS Strategy; Scotland Votes on Independence

Aired September 18, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington. Capitol Hill buzzing, once again today, with an expected vote by U.S. Senate of the president's plan to train and arm Syrian rebels in their effort to try to fight ISIS. The House approved a bill yesterday. Several of the president's key advisors are on Capitol Hill right now answering questions about the plan, the strategy and the end game. And that includes a second day of testimony from secretary of state, John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We believe that as this global coalition comes together, determined to take on ISIL, that the organizing principle of the region, which is success breeds success, you're going to begin to see more people say, we're on the side of the moderates. We're going to be with the moderates. They'll grow in strength and we can begin, indeed, to isolate ISIL itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also testifying, the Defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, who said he has now signed off on this new Obama administration strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: As each forces prove their effectiveness on the battlefield, we would be prepared to provide increasingly sophisticated types of assistance to the most trusted commanders and capable forces. The goal is not to achieve numerical parity with ISIL but ensure that moderate Syrian forces are superior fighters, trained by units. Our goal is to undercut ISIL's recruitment and to enable the Syrian opposition to add to the pressure ISIL is already facing from the Iraqi security forces and the security forces of Kurdistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Earlier, the deputy national security adviser to the president, Tony Blinken, laid out the challenge, spoke on CNN's "NEW DAY" about the expectations of coalition partners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TONY BLINKEN, U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: In Syria, it's tougher, it's longer, it's going to take time to build up the Syrian opposition, but we believe it can be done. That's what we're focused on doing. And these countries -- you'll see, the secretary of state is going to be hosting a big meeting of the coalition partners over the coming weeks. You will see not only these countries signing on but taking on specific responsibilities, including, for example, using their air power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But at about the same time Tony Blinken made that comment, we heard the former U.S. Ambassador, Ryan Crocker, also talking about the possibility of coalition partners stepping up militarily.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN CROCKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: To expect a military lead from them, quite frankly, sir, not any time soon. And I think we are prepared for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're going to hear more of Ambassador Ryan Crocker's dire assessment in a few minutes. First, let's bring in our Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash, who's been keeping an eye on all these hearings today as well as the House vote yesterday. The House voted to go ahead and approve the president's strategy of arming those moderate Syrian rebels. The Senate will be voting on this effort later today. It's going to be a very different kind of vote, though, Dana. A little complicated. It's not going to be specifically to arm and train those moderate Syrian rebels.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right because what the House did yesterday that they gave their members the opportunity to have a separate vote to make their positions clear on whether or not they wanted to arm and train the Syrian rebels. But when they did that, they tucked it into -- they put it as part of a broader, very important bill to keep the government running.

And so, that is what is coming over to the Senate today. That's what senators are going to vote on. And not a lot of senators -- I should say that there are senators in both parties who are not happy about that. They want to take independent votes on this to show their constituents how they feel. And that's something I put to the Senate majority leader a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Isn't this an important enough issue to have a separate standalone vote on so that senators can show the American people and constituents where they stand on such an important issue?

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: It's a complicated issue. The House has acted. We have -- we got the bill last night, and we're going to vote on what they sent us. As Senator Durbin has indicated, this week, we had some stunningly important hearings in the form of Senator Kerry was there and, of course, now Secretary of State. It was a long and deliberate hearing. I think it was very informative.

Senator Menendez has other hearings scheduled. And I think we're in a good position now. I think it's important that we have the ability to arm and train the rebels. And it's the way we're developing an international coalition. And I feel comfortable where we are.

BASH: But, Senator, it looks like you're trying to hide this vote for your rank and file.

REID: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (live): The yes was him moving on to the next reporter, not answering that question. In fairness, Wolf, to Senator Reid, he is following a strategy that the White House, the president himself, has been pushing very hard in phone calls all week to Capitol Hill saying that he wants this authority to arm and train the rebels, doesn't want it to get messed up, doesn't want it to lose, obviously.

So, his idea was to put it into this must pass bill to fund the government. But, again, you are having -- you're going to have senators who are going to vote against funding the government. Joe Manchin, for example, Democrat from West Virginia. Not because he doesn't want to -- not because he wants to shut down the government but because he doesn't like this idea of arming and training the rebels.

So, it's complicating things and, you know, it's not unusual for this kind of legislative game playing to go on, but, on this kind of matter, it is maybe a little bit surprising.

BLITZER: Yes. It's not exactly a profile and courage that these senators --

BASH: No.

BLITZER: -- are showing refusing to allow a simple roll call vote, up or down roll call vote, do you support $500 million to arm and train these moderate Syrian rebels? Just vote on that, yay or nay. But they're --

BASH: Yes.

BLITZER: -- refusing to even do that. They're tying it into either shutting down the government or keeping the government operating which is a pretty -- I guess it's a pretty awful situation up there. But as you point out, we should not be surprised because this has happened --

BASH: And if I --

BLITZER: -- often in the past.

BASH: -- and if I just may add one thing. Not just that, then there's a the broader question about authorization for the broader mission which even Senator Reid said that they are going to work on an authorization package over the next few weeks. But guess what's happening today? The Senate and the House, they're leaving. They're going home to campaign, a third of the Senate, all of the House, to keep their jobs instead of staying here to do the job and work on something that they all say is very important.

BLITZER: At least they have the guts in the House of Representatives (INAUDIBLE) fooling around with procedure as they often do and then they're about to leave on recess. All right, Dana, thanks very much.

The House vote on the Syria funding, it did pass. Democrats, though, voted -- many Democrats voted against the president's plan. In fact, more Democrats voted against the plan than Republicans in the House 85 Democrats voted against the president, 71 Republicans. Still, it will be interesting to see what the Senate does today, although it's a little bit more complicated, as we point -- as we point out -- just pointed out.

Let's go to Capitol Hill, once again. The Indiana Republican Senator Dan Coats is standing by. He's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. What do you think, Senator, if it were a stand-alone vote, would you support the president's $500 million proposal to arm and train those moderate Syrian rebels? Senator, I don't know if you can hear me. Let me repeat the question.

SEN. DAN COATS (R), INDIANA: Yes, please.

BLITZER: If there were a stand-alone vote, Senator Coats, would you support $500 million to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels?

COATS: Yes, I would but reluctantly, Wolf, because I don't think the strategy is there yet. But to not vote for it, just means we were a doing nothing. I think over this next few weeks here before we return in December, we've got to straighten this out. And the president has to delineate a much better strategy than what he has so far.

BLITZER: So, the vote later today to pass the stop gap measure to continue funding the government, what's called a Continuing Resolution, or C.R., you will vote yes?

COATS: I will vote yes reluctantly because I think we should have a separate vote so people know where we stand on the particular issue, but that's not the way it's being presented to us by Harry Reid.

BLITZER: Why are they refusing to let the Senate do what the House of Representatives do, simply have a vote on that narrow issue on funding and training Syrian rebels?

COATS: I think the president's afraid it's going to kick up a storm or maybe he wouldn't win that vote. I think he would. Nevertheless, I think the orders come down from the White House to combine the two and force the vote on keeping the government open as well as supporting the president's plan.

BLITZER: There's a lot of Democrats that want to vote, like Joe Manchin, for example, the Democratic senator from West Virginia. He says he's not ready to support that kind of legislation. On the other hand, they don't want to vote to shut down the government. Susan Collins made that point. A lot of Democrats and bunch of Republicans, they're going to hold their nose and vote for this because they don't want to shut down the government.

COATS: Well, that's true and this has been the situation over this whole last two years. We haven't -- whether it's Republicans or Democrats. We haven't been allowed to let our yes be yes and no be no on a particular issue. A lot of votes haven't been able to be taken because the majority leader has not allowed that to happen.

BLITZER: What do you think about this debate over the considering, at least considering, combat ground forces to destroy ISIL, or ISIS, whatever you want to call them?

COATS: We're way behind the curve here. The time it will take to train up these free Syrian army people is going to put us way behind the curve. We have not yet gotten commitments from Muslim nations that they'll support this. Ultimately, you can't win this situation and achieve the goal the president outlined, which I support, and that is to take down ISIS. You can't achieve that simply through air power and what the plan is to train up some free Syrian fighters. You had to -- have to put boots on the ground. The question is whose boots are we going to put there and can anybody else's boots do the job? That's a big issue for the president to deal with. And right now, he's in limbo land.

BLITZER: Because the only one -- only boots on the ground -- and this is our last question, Senator, because the only boots on the ground what I can see are Kurdish fighters, maybe some elements of the Iraqi military which the U.S. trained and funded, turned out to be a disaster, maybe some of those free Syrian army rebels. I don't see the neighboring Arab countries or Turkey, a NATO ally, or any of the European allies being willing to send troops in there, combat troops on the ground. Do you?

COATS: I don't see it yet and I have a real question about whether or not what you mentioned is enough to deal with ISIS which is rapidly expanding. They're very sophisticated. They're well resourced. They're a fighting army, and I'm not sure we have put together the coalition -- well, I'm sure we haven't so far, the coalition that's going to be able to deal with that.

BLITZER: I think you're probably right. Senator Coats, thanks very much for joining us.

COATS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, Scottish voters decide their future today. Will they remain a part of the United Kingdom or become an independent nation? We're going to go live to Edinburgh where the voting is drawing to a close just a few hours from now.

And in Australia, police now say they foiled a vicious terror plot. We'll tell you who ISIS sympathizers allegedly planned to execute right in the middle of a public street. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In Australia, abstract fears of terrorism have suddenly become very, very real. Now, that authorities have rooted out what they say is a horrifying terror plot with ties to ISIS. Two suspects now in custody and what officials describe as a plan by extremists to carry out a public execution. The grim details are driving home fears that Middle Eastern terrorism could find its way to the west. Our Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Wolf, as the Obama administration works to gather a coalition to fight against ISIS, a key American ally, Australia announced that it foiled an alleged homegrown terrorist plot that Australian authorities say was linked to the ISIS militant group.

(voice-over): Predawn raids across Australia's largest city. Authorities are calling it the country's biggest ever anti-terror operation. Armed with dozens of search warrants, Australian security forces detained at least 15 suspects. The Australian media reporting disturbing details. The suspects allegedly planned to film the public beheading of a random individual and then drape the body in the black flag of ISIS.

ANDREW SCIPIONE, COMMISSIONER, NEW SOUTH WALES, AUSTRALIAN POLICE: We're in some serious concern that right at the heart of our communities, we have people that are planning to conduct random attacks. And today, we've worked together to make sure that that didn't happen. We have, in fact, disrupted that particular attack.

WATSON: Among the suspects detained, a man named Omar John Zawahiri who appeared briefly in a Sydney court charged with a terrorism- related offense. He did not enter a plea. His neighbors shocked a suspected terrorist lived next door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never thought I would see anything like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's actually quite frightening. My heart is actually pounding.

WATSON: Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he believes at least 60 Australians are fighting alongside ISIS and other militant groups in the Middle East. He's repeatedly voiced fears these Australian jihadis could pose a threat if they ever come home. Australian intelligence revealed ISIS was urging homegrown sympathizers to carry out attacks in Australia.

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Quite direct exhortations were coming from an Australian who is apparently quite senior in ISIL to networks of support back in Australia to conduct demonstration killings here in this country.

WATSON: Last week, Australia raised its threat level to high for the first time in the country's history, warning a terrorist attack is likely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON: Wolf, the Australian prime minister on Thursday, he addressed Australian troops that are about to deploy for what he described as combat operations in Iraq. He argued that by fighting against ISIS, the Australian troops would be protecting the Iraqi people and by extension the people of Australia.

Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Ivan Watson reporting for us. What a chilling story that is.

A key part of the United States' plan to try to destroy ISIS is up for a vote on Capitol Hill in a few hours. The Senate expected to decide whether to approve President Obama's request to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels to fight ISIS, but it's included in a much bigger piece of legislation designed to fund to keep the government operating. The House, by the way, gave its OK to the president's plan to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels yesterday, but more than a third of the House members voted no. Many are deeply worried that without combat troops on the ground, ISIS could not potentially be wiped out. That concern was also expressed during a House intelligence hearing today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: If, in fact, this is the greatest threat that the United States has faced from the Islamic State, why in the world are we putting the best army on the shelf in favor of something that will never equal that?

GEN. JAMES MATTIS (RET.), USMC, FMR. COMMANDER OF CENTCOM: You don't have to use the best military. These people aren't that good. So we shouldn't compare the ones that we're arming -- and I agree with the decision made by the House yesterday to go forward with arming them -- you don't have to compare the people to the U.S. military. They just have to be better than the enemy.

BACHMANN: Do you believe this strategy of the president's will ultimately destroy ISIS?

RYAN CROCKER, FMR. AMB. TO IRAQ AND SYRIA: I think, ma'am, it is a strategy that is going to evolve over time and as conditions change. I think it is a good start. But as the president has said, this is a multiyear endeavor. And things are going to look a lot different in six, 12, 18 months than they do now. And that's where I would agree with General Mattis. We have got to maintain maximum flexibility to how we respond to an evolving situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's discuss a little bit more now. Joining us from Orlando, Florida, our military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. So do you agree with General Mattis, former commander of the U.S.

military's Central Command? He knows that region well. Ambassador Crocker, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, he knows the region well. That you -- you basically have to keep all options on the table. You can't remove that combat ground force option.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I do, Wolf. And both Ambassador Crocker and General Mattis are two great minds in this area. They're stating it like it is. You know, the American people, they want a plan right now. I think the plan that's emerging is one that's a phased operation with the various sequences to it. In order to have fighters on the ground now, you have to train them now. And it's still going to take time.

You know, the Syrian fighters that this bill is attempting to influence with a training mission perhaps in Saudi Arabia, it's going to take months to get them ready, and by that time the other part of the campaign, the one that is taking place in Iraq right now, will be more developed. So this is all part of a sequenced and executable plan and I think it's valid.

BLITZER: Here's the problem that I see, and tell me if you agree, that these moderate Syrian rebels, what's their goal? Their goal is to get rid of Bashar al Assad, the president of Syria, and his regime. Whatever weapons, whatever training the U.S. provides to them, their primary focus is to go after the Syrian military, the Syrian regime, not necessarily ISIS, certainly not al Nusra, another terrorist group, which parts of the moderate Syrian rebels are actually even aligned with?

HERTLING: Yes, great point, Wolf. But at the same time they've got to survive too. What they're seeing in Syria when you take a look at what is occurring there is, not only is ISIS expanding in Syria, but they're pushing the Free Syrian Army, which is a more moderate force, aside. So it's got to get to the point where the Free Syrian Army survives and they will be fighting ISIS in terms of the contention, as well as with the Syrian government. So I think just this plan for a continued effort to make them a more capable force, to give them the leadership they require, is not only going to help them eventually against the Syrian government, but it's going to help them in the short term against ISIS.

BLITZER: All right, General Hertling, thanks very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation.

Ukraine's president is here in Washington getting a pretty rousing reception up on Capitol Hill. He addressed the joint meeting of the House and the Senate. But he wasn't just on Capitol Hill trying to make some friends. You're going to hear what Petro Poroshenko actually wants from the United States.

And Scotland is now deciding on its future. Will it stay part of the United Kingdom? We'll have the latest on the country's independence vote. That's coming up as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want Scotland to be an independent country. That means that we don't rely on Westminster to make the decisions that the Scottish people have the right to make.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely no, no, no, because we are better as a team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: They're talking about an election that could actually wind up breaking up the United Kingdom if Scotland decides to leave. Voters are deciding whether to leave the U.K., form their own independent nation. Scotland has been part of the U.K. now for more than 300 years. So far, voting is brisk in many parts of the country. The polls close less than four hours from now. Recent polls on the issue have shown that it's simply too close to call.

With us now from Edinburgh our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, set the scene for us. We're going to know in a few hours whether Scotland remains in the U.K. or bolts.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And I'm here in Edinburgh, the capital of Scotland, in front of the historic Edinburgh Castle and you really do have an immense sense of destiny being formed today, whether it is for an independent Scotland or whether it is to stay in the union. And, by the way, whatever it is, there will be massive, massive change because even if the Scotts decide no to independence, they have been offered a massive amount of devolution (ph), a massive amount of decentralized power and future control over practically all their own affairs, about foreign policy and defense policy. And that is something that is probably going to trickle down to the rest of England, Wales, et cetera, and see a more federalized state according to those who are promoting this.

But, yes, it's very exciting. It's very, very -- very, very important because it changes the face of a union that has been very, very strong for the last 300 years.

BLITZER: And voting is - people -- there's a huge turnout, a huge registration.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BLITZER: And people as young as 16, that is right, are eligible to vote?

AMANPOUR: Yes. For the first time ever, people as young as 16 are eligible to vote in Scotland. There was something like 97 percent voter registration. Eighty percent are expected to turn out. We'll hear those figures later today. But, of course, it's going to be quite long before all the results come in because there are a lot of far flung areas that some of which have to be -- have their ballot boxes and papers brought in from islands off the coast, by helicopter, some might come in by ship and ferry and, you know, the vote count or the chief vote counter is going to be up all night here in Edinburgh at a big hangar which is designed to bring all the boxes and to have all the counting is going to be up all night and we may not know a full result until early tomorrow morning Scotland time.

BLITZER: And we're told that unlike here in the United States there are no exit polls, so we're not going to be able to project an outcome right at the -

AMANPOUR: No.

BLITZER: When the voting is over with at 5:00 p.m. Eastern here in the United States, is that right?

AMANPOUR: That's absolutely right. And not only that, Wolf, I'm allowed to talk to you right now about substantive issues. I cannot broadcast in the United Kingdom anywhere here on this story right now because of the broadcast rules that say you cannot, during the hours of polls being open, say anything that might influence a viewer or rather a voter who might be watching. So we have made -- only been able to say on CNN International that the polls are open and that's it. And maybe by 10:00 our time we'll have a little bit more detail. But you're right, they don't do exit polls.

BLITZER: 10:00 p.m. your time, 5:00 p.m. our time here on the East Coast.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BLITZER: Christiane, we will stay, obviously, in close touch with you. Love the background over there of Edinburgh. Christiane Amanpour reporting.

Still to come, we're going back to Capitol Hill where a key opponent of President Obama's plan to arm Syrian rebels will tell us why he's against the plan. Stay with us.

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