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Wolf

Violent Protests Rock Hong Kong; Poll: Obama's Job Approval Numbers Down; China Sparks Hong Kong Demonstrations Over Election; Secret Service Scandal.

Aired September 29, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get right to the massive protests happening in Hong Kong. For a second day, tens and thousands of pro- democracy protests, they're filling the street, mainly around the city's central financial district. They're demanding the Chinese government reverse a key political decision. A decision that allows only candidates chosen by Beijing to run in Hong Kong's elections and they want Hong Kong's chief executive to resign. Dozens of people have been injured so far. And here's what happened when CNN's Ivan Watson, while he was covering the protests, they began as a peaceful student demonstration, but watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) enveloped (ph) with tear gas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Ivan's joining us now live from Hong Kong.

It's the middle of the night over there. Have things calmed down at all, Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean it's well after 1:00 in the morning here, Wolf, and for the second straight night in a row, demonstrators are occupying this eight-lane highway that has basically, you know, cut the city, paralyzed this financial hub right in front of the headquarters of the Hong Kong government.

There is a pretty dramatic change in mood here compared to 24 hours ago. The footage that you just aired there, where there was a heavy presence of security forces, of riot police, they were using pepper spray occasionally and tear gas and there were confrontations, scuffles with the demonstrators. The security forces have pulled back. We've heard from the dozens of demonstrators held over the weekend. Some of them were released it and what you've got now is a pretty festive scene, even this late at night on what is a very sweltering, hot night here in Hong Kong. They do not look like they are going anywhere soon. They have been stockpiling supplies here, anything from toilet paper to water and towels to wipe away the perspiration. Look at this banner in the background, "Do you hear the people sing." And people say they want more Democratic freedoms. They are afraid that the Communist Party on mainland China are whittling away at those freedoms. That's why they're still here, even though the Hong Kong government and the central government in China say their actions, this sit-in, is completely illegal -- Wolf?

BLITZER: At least the tear gas has stopped for now.

Ivan, be careful over there. We'll stay in close touch with you.

So how far will these protests in Hong Kong go?

Let's bring in Gary Locke. He was the ambassador to China under President Obama, the former secretary of commerce.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us.

Were you surprised at how ugly these demonstrations got, the reaction from the Chinese police in Hong Kong?

GARY LOCKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA & FORMER COMMERCE SECRETARY: Well, I think that's very surprising because once tear gas and pepper spray was deployed, the other people in Hong Kong, people who might have been sympathetic or apathetic to the issue joined force because it's completely unprecedented in Hong Kong. And I think the reactions by the police have actually generated more sympathy for the protesters.

BLITZER: Because we all thought that the Chinese government in Beijing was going to allow Hong Kong to have this autonomous government, if you will, but it looks like severe restricts are being imposed, and people in Hong Kong are not happy about it.

LOCKE: Well, this is a very -- what's happening in Hong Kong is of great concern to the Chinese leaders. That's why there is censorship of any broadcast news, even photographs using social media back into the mainland about what is happening there, because the last thing the leaders of Beijing want is any type of democratization movement on the mainland. And at the same time, they don't want another Tiananmen Square to occur. The Chinese government is going to try and stay out of it. They are calling the shots in close coordination with the Hong Kong authorities but want to keep their hands off of it, keep their fingerprints off of what is happening.

BLITZER: The whole world is watching, given what is going on in China, certainly in Hong Kong specifically. What would be the wise U.S. reaction to what we're seeing on the streets of Hong Kong?

LOCKE: Well, the U.S. government has never taken a position on some of the details of the democratization, the timing and voting of the leaders, by the citizens, how they are actually chosen. But the position of the United States government is very clear, that people have a right to express their views. There should be no censorship. People have the right to gather and assemble and express their views. And obviously democracy and freedoms are part of the universal rights that all people around the world should be able to enjoy.

BLITZER: I think the blunder that the Chinese government made was, if these demonstrators were protesting peacefully, students and others, let them protest. But once they come in with the tear gas, the pepper spray, that really, as you pointed out, energizes so many others in Hong Kong, and that's why at least for now, they've stopped with the tear gas and pepper spray. This was 24 hours ago, some of the images that we're seeing right now.

LOCKE: This has escalated into a situation to a level in which neither side can back down, neither the students, the protesters, the organizers of the pro-democracy movement. At the same time, Beijing, the government cannot allow a group of citizens to force them to change their policies, especially as it affects the political system. The people of Hong Kong have long believed and expected -- and this was part of the hand-over from the British government to the Chinese government -- there would be direct elections by the people of the chief executive, the so-called mayor or governor of Hong Kong, the leader of Hong Kong. Right now, it's chosen by a group of 1,200 people, in many ways influenced by Beijing, the Chinese government, but representing different constituency groups, labor groups, political groups and so forth. The people of Hong Kong want direct elections where they can actually vote on the candidates. And Beijing recently said, yeah, you can have direct voting but only a slate of people that we essentially choose, and that's really raised the hackles of these protesters in the pro-democracy movement.

BLITZER: It certainly has. We'll see what happens in the coming hours.

Ambassador, thanks very much for joining us.

Gary Locke is the former U.S. ambassador to China.

Coming up next, Americans approve of air strikes against ISIS but disapprove of the commander-in-chief, as far as his job approval numbers are concerned. We'll take a closer look at what is behind the apparent contradiction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: People living in a Syrian town are fearing a massacre as the Islamic militant army, known as ISIS, closes in on Kurdish forces. Witnesses near Kobani say air strikes against ISIS are not enough to slow the ISIS momentum.

Meanwhile, a pretty stunning admission from President Obama, telling "CBS News" saying U.S. intelligence underestimated the rise of ISIS in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think our head of the intelligence community, Jim Clapper, has acknowledged that they underestimated what had been taken place in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president also said they overestimated the capability of the Iraqi military, which simply collapsed. Meanwhile a new CNN/ORC out today poll out today shows the American

public overwhelmingly supports the air strikes in Iraq and Syria. You can see it there. 73 percent say they favor the air strikes.

Let's go to our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, who is joining us live.

The White House press secretary addressed these comments, Michelle, only moments ago at the briefing. What did he say?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Getting some tough, tough questions. I mean, hearing the president last night talk about the underestimation of ISIS and overestimation of Iraqi forces and referring back to what the director of National Intelligence said. That raises questions of its own, of course, of how was that able to happen and what does that say about the confidence we all should have now in assessments that are currently shaping the U.S.'s response to ISIS.

But there are some problems with what the White House has been saying, that, well, we just didn't know, to just today, in fact, the White House just said when asked who underestimated ISIS? They said everyone underestimated is. The problem is that now all of these people, former Pentagon officials, intelligent officials and diplomatic officials are coming out and saying, wait a minute, I warned everybody. I warned the administration. I spoke before Congress and told them about ISIS gaining ground and the dangers that it posed nearly a year ago, and then months after that and months after that and months after that. They are alleging that that information was out there.

So today we see the White House kind of relying lesson what it called the underestimation of ISIS, possibly because of all of this information that people are now talking about very publicly, and relying more on the overestimation of Iraqi security forces, saying it's very difficult to predict someone's will to fight.

There are problems with that, too, though, because people are saying, here are the dire warnings I gave. Some of that also includes their worries about whether or not the Iraqis could handle the advance of ISIS.

So there are clearly lots more questions out there. In fact, the press secretary of was asked very directly just now, did the president listen to this information? And we didn't really get an answer to that -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Michelle Kosinski, I think you're absolutely right. They were surprised at the growth of ISIS but they were really flabbergasted at how quickly the Iraqi military crumbled even after defending the second-largest city of Iraq, Mosul, a city of two million people. They simply ran away when these ISIS terrorists came in. That was shocking to U.S. analysts, even though they knew there were major problems with the Iraqi military, despite the years of U.S. training, funding and arming those Iraqi military personnel.

KOSINSKI: Right.

BLITZER: Michelle, thanks very much.

Meanwhile, the commander-in-chief almost always gets a significant boost in the polls whenever he takes to war against the enemies, but not this time. Even though three-quarters of the U.S. say they approve the U.S. air strikes against is, the president's approval rating remains flat at only 44 percent approve of the job that the president is doing, compared to 43 percent before he ordered the air strikes. Basically, statistically negligible. Uncomfortably high disapproval rate is at 52 percent.

Let's bring in our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Gloria, how come he doesn't get a bounce? Usually, when the U.S. goes to war, the American public sides with the president in increasing numbers.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: The American public doesn't think we're at war because the president keeps saying over and over again we're not going to send in ground troops. They think air strikes is very different from boots on the ground, number one.

Number two, if you look at the president's numbers on the handling of terrorism, on is, on foreign affairs, you'll see that he gets a bit of an uptick. I think we have some of those numbers here. He's up to 46 percent now on terrorism. You see the uptick, particularly on the handling of is. Certainly, certainly up higher.

But the problem for the president, also with our numbers, is that less than 50 percent of people in this country, about 48 percent, trust him as commander-in-chief. When you have that kind of a problem, it's not going to translate into a huge uptick in the polls, particularly even at this time. And the public is also ambivalent, Wolf. They want these air strikes. They don't want boots on the ground. So it's very different from what sort of George W. Bush had post 9/11.

BLITZER: The president doesn't have to worry about getting re- elected.

BORGER: No.

BLITZER: But in five weeks, there are midterm elections, the state of the U.S. Senate, whether it stays Democratic majority or becomes Republican majority. If you take a look at those key battlegrounds, the president's job approval numbers in some of those states where it's very, very close is below the national average.

BORGER: Particularly those red states where Mitt Romney won. And if you look at our polling, a state, for example, that's really being contested, like Alaska, like Arkansas, the president's approval rating is in the low 30 percent. And that's a terrible range if you're running for re-election.

Also -- and nobody expected this, Wolf -- the whole issue of national security is playing into some of these campaigns because Republicans are charging that Democrats were asleep at the switch, the president was asleep at the switch, and therefore some of these candidates were asleep at the switch. In North Carolina, you see the Republican opponent to Kay Hagan running an ad on that, trying to put a dent in her popularity there. So in an odd way, national security, another way to tie Democratic candidates in red states with a very unpopular president.

BORGER: That explains that nationally his numbers are 44. And if you go to these other states, he's in the low-30s, mid-30s, some places high 20s. That's why they don't want the president going into those states.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: They are happy for him to raise money for them.

BORGER: To raise money and stay in Washington.

BLITZER: They are not going to give him a hug on the tarmac.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, Gloria.

Up next, the streets of Hong Kong once again full of protesters. Bobby Ghosh has spent a lot of time over there. He's got some important thoughts when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Thousands of demonstrators in Hong Kong are showing no signs of backing down. Our correspondent on the scene describing it as a sea of humanity. Look at these pictures. The demonstrations are in response to a decision by China in regards to the 2017 elections in China. Only candidates approved by the government Beijing, China, will be allowed to run for election in Hong Kong.

Bobby Ghosh, once again, is joining us, our CNN global affairs analyst and managing editor of the Digital News Outlet.

You spent a lot of time in Hong Kong over the years, Bobby. Where is this heading?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST & MANAGING EDITOR, DIGITAL NEWS OUTLET: I did live there for eight years, Wolf. I was there in 1997 when Hong Kong was handed over from the British to the Chinese. I'm astonished at these turn of events. The Chinese made a promise that Hong Kong people would get more and more democracy and they created a system called One Country, Two Systems. They created the environment in which Hong Kong was allowed to have a separate political system. I don't see the reason why China chose at this point to change that bargain but they clearly overplayed their hands. Hundreds of thousands of people tell you that. I have spoken to friends in Hong Kong over the last few days and it's amazing how many people who are apolitical are joining in these protests, helping out by giving these protesters food and shelter, but also coming out and marching in the streets. This has become -- this is no longer just a group of radical students, if, indeed, it was ever simply that. It is now a mass movement and Beijing finds itself pressed against a corner off their own making, and that's really quite mystifying about how clumsy Beijing was about this.

BLITZER: One thing I can imagine, Bobby, is they're afraid this pro democracy movement in Hong Kong will spread over into China proper and they don't want to see that happen.

GHOSH: Those fears are real. When the protests began as peaceful, they could have headed it off at the pass. They created the outline that they could turn -- if other Chinese cities or citizens demanded freedoms, they could tell them, look, we made a deal with Hong Kong and we're keeping our deal. Hong Kong and mainland are not the same thing.

Having given themselves plausible deniability, to now just throw it away, seems to me a bad political move. And it's not just they're ignoring this. I am paying close attention to the Chinese official media and you are hearing some really unpleasant things. You hear reference to a foreign hand, to a black hand. The students are described as radicals, as trouble makers. This is the sort of language used 25 years ago this year in Tiananmen Square and that's something to be concerned about.

BLITZER: The first thing I thought of was Tiananmen Square when I see what's happening on the streets of Hong Kong. We'll see where it goes.

Bobby, thank you very much.

Coming up, how a shooting at the White House was discovered not by the Secret Service but by a housekeeper.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Less than two weeks after a man scaled a fence at the White House made a dash and got inside the White House, there's more trouble for the U.S. Secret Service. A new report paints a troubling picture over a 2011 incident also at the White House. Several bullets hit the windows outside of the upstairs residence while the president's daughters and his mother-in-law were inside. At least one of the daughters was inside. The gunman later admitted he wanted to shoot the president. This report says it took agents four days to realize what had happened.

Let's bring in Brian Todd who has been going through all of the evidence that we're now learning.

It's pretty shocking when you think about it.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Wolf. It's a disturbing incident but the Secret Service is pushing back hard on the charge that they mishandled this.

There were shots were fired at the White House on November 11th, 2011. That night one of the bullets you see there, at least one of them, hit one of the windows there and smashed one of them in the second floor residence. This was fired from about 700 yards away on Constitutional Avenue, northwest. After scanning the premises, "The Washington Post" is reporting that Secret Service supervisors said, quote, "No shots had been fired. Stand down." And "The Post" is reporting and the Secret Service has acknowledged it took them about four days to find the first bullets and it was only because a housekeeper noticed broken glass and a chunk of cement on the floor. One former Secret Service officer told me the bullet may have pierced the historic glass but not the bullet-proof glass on the inside.

The Secret Service pushing back hard on this. They're saying, yes, they said stand down in the first moments after the shots were fired because there was a lot of confusion that night as to whether shots had been fired, where shots were coming from. They had witness reports saying two cars had fired shots at each other nearby. And so the Secret Service is saying we didn't bungle this. There was a lot of confusion. We had to sift through that confusion in those first moments.

BLITZER: And they originally thought that maybe some cars were backfiring.

TODD: That's right.

BLITZER: That that was the noise that people had actually heard because they heard something.

TODD: They heard something. One Secret Service officer was on the premises on that side of the White House and did believe the White House had been hit. But again, in their scanning of the premises, they were told that they didn't think there were shots fired at that time.

We'll have more on this in "The Situation Room" tonight, Wolf, at 6:00 p.m. The Secret Service is, of course, on the defensive over this and over the fence-jumping incident recently. But they are saying, look, we have a 100 percent safety record here in protecting the president.

BLITZER: Yeah, let's hope it stays like that. Obviously, a very disconcerting story. We'll stay on top of that for our viewers.

Thanks very much.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching.

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf, thank you so much.