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ISIS May Have Intercepted U.S. Aid in Syria; Nigerian Government Hopeful School Girls Will Be Released; North Korea Releases Prisoner Jeffrey Fowle; ISIS Launches New Attacks, Trying to Capture Mosul Dam; Suspected Nazi War Criminals Receive Social Security.

Aired October 21, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: Ivan Watson has been on the Syrian/Turkish border. He's joining us now.

Ivan, does it look like this video is real? How much of the U.S. aid may have been designed to go into the hands of these Kurdish fighters actually has wound up in the hands of ISIS? What are you hearing?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what's confusing, Wolf. The Pentagon said that one of the aid drops, the parachute bundles that was dropped early Monday morning, did drift off course and that a U.S. warplane then had to destroy it to keep it from getting into ISIS hands. And then this video emerges on social media. And we've looked at it very closely. It does seem to match the topography of the area around this besieged town of Kobani. It's very clearly a parachute with a bundle of boxes next to it, and then crates that appear to contain hand grenades and mortar rounds. So this does look like, one of these bundles, at least for a time, got into the hands of ISIS militants, precisely the people the U.S. military is trying to kill. We watched at least three suspected air strikes on that town of Kobani throughout the day today.

We also got, Wolf, exclusive video coming out of some of that aid reaching the right people. A doctor who tells us that he received precious medicine, antibiotics, anesthetics. And he was thanking the people who delivered them. But clearly, it is a difficult mission to try to get aid to the defenders of Kobani. You see what could have gone wrong there.

And what makes it all the more strange is Kobani is so close to where we were standing. It's less than a mile and right next to Turkish tanks, and troops who are NATO allies, and still the U.S. had to resort to parachutes to try to get weapons, ammunition and medicine to the defenders of that besieged town -- Wolf?

BLITZER: And this has been one of the great fears that the U.S. has had, providing weapons to forces that are fighting ISIS. But those weapons could wind up in the hands of ISIS. We know that a lot of U.S. tanks, armored personnel carriers, anti-aircraft missiles, all sorts of sophisticated weaponry that was provided to the Iraqi military is now in the hands of ISIS forces in Iraq. And the Iraqis apparently are moving a lot of that equipment to Syria as well. This has been a serious problem all along.

You've been covering it from the beginning, Ivan. Give us your analysis.

WATSON: Well, that's right. I don't think that one bundle from a parachute of weapons is going to completely transform the battlefield. But what it does highlight is the strange position that two NATO allies are in, where the U.S. is arming one faction in Syria, these Kurdish militants. And Turkey clearly doesn't want the U.S. to be doing that. Otherwise, they would just let it be handed over by Turkish troops who are right next to where those Kurdish militants are, I mean, right next to them, across the border fence from them. The reason is Turkey considers those Kurdish militants to be terrorists. It considers them equal to ISIS, both terrorist organizations. As a result, the U.S. has had to resort to this.

Turkey's own policy, very confusing, Wolf, because, on the one hand, it says, we can't give guns to those Kurdish defenders of the town of Kobani. But on the other hand, the Turkish government announced on Monday it will allow Iraqi Kurdish fighters to cross through Turkish territory to reinforce these very same Kurdish militants that it calls terrorists. So Turkey's policy is all over the place and it's complicating the U.S. efforts on the ground just across the border from its NATO ally, Turkey.

BLITZER: I can tell you and our viewers, U.S. officials -- I know this -- are deeply irritated that the Turks won't even allow the U.S. to use Turkish air bases, Turkish air bases, NATO air base, like at Incirlik, so the U.S. can use those F-15, F-16 fighter jets to launch air strikes against targets in Iraq and Syria from nearby Turkey. And there's deep irritation of that as well.

We'll stay on top of this story.

Ivan, stay with us.

A lot more of the breaking news coming up. We'll take a quick break. Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Nigerian government remains hopeful that more than 200 kidnapped schoolgirls could be released this week. This comes after an announcement last week that a cease-fire was signed with the Islamic extremist group, Boko Haram. But despite word of a truce, there's still fighting between militants and Nigerian fighters.

CNN's Isha Sesay is in the Nigeria capitol, Abuja.

Isha, we've heard the release of the girls is imminent. Based on what you're hearing, what's going on?

ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Wolf. There is still a large amount of confidence being expressed by Nigerian government officials speaking to the senior special assistant to the president on public affairs. Just yesterday, he was very, very confident, optimistic saying that these girls will be released imminently, going as far as to saying by Wednesday to expect some significant moves. The talks, however, are still going on in nearby Chad. These are talks going on with the help of the Chadian president. It's our understanding they're still trying to thrash out the details of any kind of cease-fire and the eventual release of the girls. This is by no means done. But the Nigerian government is saying now, according to the senior official, they are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that these girls are released in the coming days -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I know a lot of Nigerians have been very skeptical about a cease-fire, especially after Boko Haram launched bloody attacks on two villages over the weekend. Has there been any comment at all from Boko Haram?

SESAY: No, no comment from Boko Haram. And we know this is a group that isn't shy of using videos, putting videos out in the immediate aftermath of the abduction of the girls back in April. We got two videos from Boko Haram. One with its purported leader talking about having the girls, saying he would sell them in a market for human flesh. Then, of course, we saw that other video that showed some of the girls gathered together, reciting Koranic verses. This is not a group that's afraid to use media. Yet we haven't heard from them. That's caused many people on the ground to question the validity of any kind of deal, that added to the fact that we have seen continued violence from Boko Haram in the aftermath of these reports has left many people greeting this news with what has been widely described as cautious optimism -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Let's hope these girls are released right away. They've been held captive way, way too long.

Isha Sesay, in Abuja in Nigeria, thank you. We'll stay in very close touch with you.

Let's get back to the other breaking news, North Korea. North Korea has released an American, Jeffrey Fowle. That's the American who left a Bible in his hotel room. There you see him with Will Ripley, our correspondent, who interviewed him and two other Americans held by the North Koreans, Matthew Todd Miller and Kenneth Bae. Jeffrey Fowle was flown out by a U.S. government plane that landed in Pyongyang and flew to Guam. He's on his way back to the United States.

Here's the announcement from the White House press secretary, Josh earnest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I am in a position to confirm that Jeffrey Fowle has been allowed to depart the DPRK and is on his way home to rejoin his family. We certainly welcome the decision from the DPRK to release him. While this is a positive decision, we remain focused on the continued detention of Kenneth Bae and Matthew Miller and, again, call on the DPRK to immediately release them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The DPRK, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. There you have the announcement from the White House. No official word from North Korea yet. But in this particular case, actions speak louder than words. This American has been freed, once again, though, two other Americans still being held prisoner in North Korea. We'll stay on top of this story and get you the latest.

Obviously, a dramatic development, especially in the aftermath of the mystery surrounding Kim Jong-Un, his disappearance for about 40 days. But he has been seen with still photos with a cane over the past few days. We'll try to unravel more of the mystery from North Korea. Much more of that coming up. Also, ISIS striking back with a vengeance. The terror group making 15

simultaneous coordinated attacks on Monday. You'll hear from the former director of the National Counterterrorism Center on how the U.S.-led coalition needs to respond to this growing is threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Following developments in the war against ISIS right now. The militant group launching about 15 nearly simultaneous attacks on Kurdish forces in northern Iraq. It's also launched new attacks against that dam, a very important dam in Mosul in Iraq, a strategic target they've been battling for months to try to capture.

Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is in Washington and joins us now with more on this war against ISIS. Our CNN global affairs analyst, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, retired Delta Force, U.S. Army officer, joining us as well.

But, Jim, first to you.

You've just spoken with Matt Olsen, the former director of the U.S. National Counterterrorism Center. What did he tell you about the threat from ISIS and the various affiliated groups?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I asked him, I began by asking him what he considers the greatest terror threat to the U.S. today. He named two groups. They were AQAP in Yemen, the group that's attempted to get explosive devices on airliners, the underwear bomber, et cetera, and, two, al Khorasan group. This was the group we heard of the night that air strikes started in Syria, a group of former senior leaders from al Qaeda now based in Syria. But the most concerning thing that he said to me about this group is that the threat from al Khorasan is still imminent and that the air strikes that took place that night, a number of cruise missiles, other strikes, have not diminished that threat to the U.S.

Have a listen to how he described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT OLSON, FORMER DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: By everything I've seen, I think the threat is still in the same place it was before. And that is, this group was in a position to train without any sort of interference. They were able to recruit operatives. We saw that they were looking to test explosives. So they were in the advanced stages of plotting. Again, they had both that intent and what we saw was that capability that put them into this nearing an execution phase of an attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The threat from the al Khorasan group, as he said there, in the same place as it was before those air strikes started. That's a great concern because, remember, that was one of the main justifications for the start of the air strikes in Syria. He did tell me, however, that there was evidence that those strikes killed senior leaders from the Khorasan group. Still, though, a threat to the U.S.

But I tell you, it's interesting, I asked him about the threat from ISIS as well. He said that, compared to AQAP and the Khorasan group, not as severe a threat to the U.S. homeland, but he said a growing threat. And one, again, another group that's taking advantage of a safe haven in Syria to plot, recruit and plan attacks against U.S. targets, both on the homeland and overseas.

BLITZER: So at least for now, I think it's fair to say, at least according to Matt Olsen, the man you just interviewed, the former head of the counterterrorism operation in the United States, ISIS focused mostly on building its caliphate in Iraq and Syria and potentially elsewhere in the Middle East. But Khorasan and AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula based in Yemen, they are deliberately focusing a lot of their attention on the U.S. homeland. Is that the message he's delivering?

SCIUTTO: That's right. And it's both focus and capability. The Khorasan group and AQAP not only have the intention of attacking the U.S., but they have the ability to do so. And they very nearly succeed in recent years. He says that ISIS may have the intention. And the leader of ISIS has said that war with the U.S. is inevitable. But at this point, they haven't developed the specific capability.

I will tell you, though, Wolf, another point he made -- and remember, this is the guy who briefs the president on counter-terror issues often on a daily basis as the head of the National Counterterrorism Center. He said the most likely attack to take place in the U.S. is from a lone wolf, someone who is self-radicalized, who may have contact or may read about ISIS online, and because of that, make a decision to carry out on attack themselves, like the Boston bombers, for instance. He says that while the most severe threats come from AQAP and the Khorasan group, that the most likely attack is a relatively small scale but still a deadly attack from a lone wolf.

BLITZER: That's a good point.

Colonel Reese, what's your analysis of what ISIS is now trying to do in Iraq? Because these 15 nearly simultaneous assaults that are under way right now, my sense is they're trying to really threaten Baghdad, if you will, although U.S. officials maintain Baghdad, at least for now, a city of seven million people, remains secure.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT & FORMER DELTA FORCE U.S. ARMY OFFICER: Yeah, Wolf. What you see right now is ISIS trying to show the world, especially the Iraqis and the Syrians, that they have the ability to do near-simultaneous attacks. It goes to show their command-and-control capability. They're able to do some planning. They have great field commanders out there. They've got a great communications plan out there. And they probably set that off at an operational time to give everyone an aspect that ISIS still has an operational, tactical and strategic ability throughout the Levant there in Syria and Iraq to do these attacks.

BLITZER: Trying to establish their caliphate not only in Iraq and Syria, but they define their caliphate as including Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Turkey, all of that area, that's their goal. We'll see how far they get. They are making headway in Iraq and Syria, to be sure.

Colonel Reese, thanks very much.

Jim Sciutto, thanks. I know you're going to be back with us. I think both of you will be back with us later in "The Situation Room" as well.

Meanwhile, other news we're following. Get this. Hard to believe. But suspected Nazi war criminals have been collecting millions of dollars in U.S. Social Security funds. That's right. Social Security payments continue to flow to suspected criminals, including guards at Auschwitz. How is that happening? A Congresswoman is outraged and we'll get her analysis on what is going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN.

BLITZER: This next story has touched a nerve, especially with a lot of members of the Greatest Generation. Suspected Nazi war criminals, including some S.S. guards at concentration camps, death camps, have collected millions of dollars in U.S. Social Security benefits through a legal loophole. That, according to an Associated Press investigation. Worse yet, the government set up the system to encourage them to take the money and leave the country. It became known as "Nazi dumping."

Yaco Denzinger's (ph) story is typical. He was an S.S. guard at Poland's notorious death camp in Auschwitz. After leaving Ohio in 1989, he's still collecting benefits in Germany. Denzinger's (ph) son confirmed it to the "A.P." and says he deserves the benefits.

This revelation compelled the New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney to introduce a bill to cut off the benefits.

Congresswoman Maloney is joining us from New York.

Are you outraged that the United States is actually paying suspected war criminals Social Security benefits? I assume the answer is yes.

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY, (D), NEW YORK: Absolutely. I think I join every American taxpayer in being outraged that our dollars are being spent to support known Nazi war criminals and guards. It was against the law. We passed laws saying they should get no benefits and leave the country. But there's a loophole. The law said they had to be deported. And some were denaturalized, some left of their own accord, so they have continued to receive benefits.

I have written the Justice Department, the Social Security Department to give a full accounting of how much was spent, how much is being spent, how much is going to widows of these criminals. And I find it an outrage. I think this is something that we can all agree on. And Congress is not known for a lot of areas that we agree. But I -- everyone I talk to is outraged across the country. The response is very strong.

BLITZER: So what is the reaction you're getting from the Justice Department and from the Social Security Administration?

MALONEY: Well, they haven't gotten back to me yet, but we'll keep calling, and we'll keep trying. And they certainly should respond. The transparency is the hallmark of this administration and the sunshine is the best disinfectant. And they should come back with as much information or all the information that really respects our privacy laws, but there's no reason that they can't give numbers of how much has been spent and where. These are known Nazi war criminals. And it's an outrage, but.

BLITZER: I take it the inducement for getting them go back to their countries, whether or other countries in Europe was they would continue receiving these Social Security benefits. And the argument that the Justice Department initially made was, since they couldn't really be effectively tried in the United States, you had to expel them back to their home countries and this was the tradeoff. Is that a correct analysis?

MALONEY: We have called various organizations that the government has claimed, supported, this continuing, three of them. One has gotten back to us saying it's totally untrue, that all of their membership is supporting this effort to cut off benefits and to stop any payment of taxpayer dollars to these known Nazi war criminals.

We'll look into it, and I'll keep you posted. Thank you for your interest.

But a Nazi war criminal is a Nazi war criminal. The intent of the law was to deport them and deprive them of American benefits. And that's what the bill that I'm introducing when we get back, November 12th, will do.

BLITZER: We know millions of dollars have been included in this so- called deal. Do you have any idea how many millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars went to providing Social Security benefits to these suspected Nazi war criminals?

MALONEY: Well, many of them weren't even suspected. They had the proof that they were Nazi war criminals. And I have asked for that information of who received it, how much, how much of a period of time. And also the widows. In the event they died, their widows will continue to receive Social Security benefits. So we need to get these numbers and see the span of it. A.P. reported four known criminals are receiving funds that they were able to locate. But I have asked the Justice Department and the Social Security Department to get back to me with the appropriate information, and I trust they will.

BLITZER: And I know you're also investigating other U.S. taxpayer dollars maybe even winding up in the hands of ISIS. Is that what your concern is?

MALONEY: Well, I think that the determination now shows that we will never forget, that we will remember and we will enforce and we will hold people accountable. And I think we should have similar legislation on terrorists and cut off any benefits that they may have. It's reported they're going over there to serve. I don't think they should be permitted back in the United States. And I think any benefit that they receive should be terminated.

BLITZER: Carolyn Maloney, the Democratic Congresswoman from New York.

We'll stay in close touch with you. Let us know what you hear when you get a response --

MALONEY: Thank you for your interest.

BLITZER: -- from the Social Security Administration and the Justice Department. Appreciate it very much.

MALONEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: And this programming note. For our viewers here in the United States and North America, you can see the Florida governor's debate later tonight on CNN. It begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern. It'll be moderated by our own Jake Tapper. And please be sure to join us Thursday night. I'll be moderating the New Hampshire senatorial debate between the Democratic Senator, Jean Shaheen, and challenger, former Republican Senator, Scott Brown.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. See you back here in "The Situation Room" 5:00 p.m. eastern.

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.