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President Obama and PM Cameron Conclude News Conference; CNN Analysis of Obama-Cameron News Conference

Aired January 16, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DAVID CAMERON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: So, let's never lose sight of the real enemy here, which is the poisonous narrative that's perverting Islam. That is what we have to focus on, recognizing that, of course, we help ourselves in this struggle if we create societies of genuine opportunity, if we create genuine integration between our communities.

But let us never lose sight of the real -- the heart of the matter.

As for the issue on the techniques necessary for our intelligence services to help keep us safe, all I would say, and the president and I had a good discussion about this earlier, I don't think either of us are trying to enunciate some new doctrine. The doctrine that I approach this...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I take a very simple approach to this, which is ever since we've been sending letters to each other or making telephone calls to each other or mobile phone calls to each other or, indeed, contacting each other on the Internet, it has been possible in both our countries in extremis, in my country by signed warrant by the home secretary, to potentially listen to a call between two terrorists, to stop them in their activity.

In your country, a judicial process. We've had our own. We're not asking for back doors. We have -- we believe in very clear front doors through legal processes that should help to keep our country safe.

And my only argument is that as technology develops, as the world moves on, we should try to avoid the safe havens that could otherwise be created for terrorists to talk to each other. That's the -- the goal that I think is so important because I'm in no doubt as, having been prime minister for four-and-a-half years, having seen how our intelligence services work, I know that some of these plots that get prevented, the lives that get saved. There is a very real connection between that and the capabilities that our intelligence services, within the law, use to defend our people.

I think the final question is from Robert Moore from ITN.

QUESTION: Thank you. Yes, Robert Moore with the British network, ITV News.

Prime Minister, it's clear there is a security alert underway at the moment around the Jewish community in Britain. Can I just be clear? Is that based on specific intelligence? Should people be concerned about doing their daily activities this weekend? And do you regard a terrorist attack on British soil as almost inevitable?

Mr. President, you say there is a dialog underway with the big American tech companies, but do you share the prime minister's view that the current threat environment is so severe that there does need to be a swing of the pendulum a little bit, maybe from -- from privacy towards counter-terrorism? And this area of private, encrypted communications is a very dangerous one, potentially, in terms of assimilating dialog between terrorist groups?

CAMERON: On the issue of the threat that we face, as I said, the level has been set at severe. That is set by an independent expert organization so people can have full confidence that these things are never done for any other motives than literally to look at the evidence that is there about terrorist threats and to set the level accordingly. When the level, as it is at the moment, is set at severe, that means that the authorities believe an attack is highly likely.

If we believed it was imminent, then you would move to the next level, which is critical. And you know, we clearly do face a very real threat in our country. I mean, in recent months, as I was discussing with the president, we've had a number of potential attacks averted, for instance, on British police officers.

So, that is the threat picture. It's regularly reviewed, regularly updated, but it shouldn't be moved unless there is real evidence to do so.

In terms of the protection to the Jewish community and indeed other communities and indeed to police officers themselves, this is based on what has happened in France, on the whole picture that we see. And it is sensible, precautionary measures to make sure we do what we can to reassure those communities: communities who are all too aware of the threat that they face, and this is a bigger challenge for us.

I think one of the most moving sights in Paris was to see so many people holding up signs saying "Je suis flic," I am a cop, "Je suis juif," I am a Jew. And I thought that was incredibly moving, that people wanted to stand together with one community that had been singled out, and singled out not because of anything other than the fact they were Jewish. And so I think it's very important that we speak up and stand up for those communities and give them the protection that they deserve.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Obviously, in the wake of Paris, our attention is heightened, but I have to tell you, over the last six years, threat streams are fairly constant. David deals with them every day, I deal with them every day, our CT, our counterterrorism professionals, deal with them every day. So I don't think this is a situation in which because things are so much more dangerous, the pendulum needs to swing, I think what we have to find is a consistent framework whereby our publics have confidence that their government can both protect them, but not abuse our capacity to operate in cyberspace.

And because this is a whole new world, as David said, the laws that might have been designed for the traditional wiretap have to be updated. How we do that needs to be debated both here in the United States and in the UK. I think we're getting better at it, I think we're striking the balance better, I think that companies here in the United States at least recognize that they have a responsibility to the public, but also want to make sure that they're meeting their responsibilities to their customers that are -- that are using their products.

And so the dialogue that we're engaged in is designed to make sure that -- that all of us feel confident that if there is an actual threat out there, our law enforcement and our intelligence officers can identify that threat and track that threat at the same time that our governments are not going around fishing into whatever text you might be sending, you know, on your -- on your smartphone, and -- and I think that's something that can be achieved.

There're going to be -- there're going to be situations where there're hard cases. But for the most part, those who are worried about Big Brother sometimes obscure or deliberately ignore all the legal safeguards have been put in place to assure people's privacy and to make sure that government is not abusing these powers.

And on the other hand, there -- there are times where law enforcement and those of us whose job it is to protect the public aren't thinking about those problems, because we're trying to track and prevent a particular terrorist event from happening.

And it's useful to have civil libertarians and others tapping us on the shoulder in the midst of this process and reminding us that there're values at stake as well, and I think that David and I welcome that kind of debate.

The technologies are evolving in ways that potentially make this trickier. If we get into a situation in which the technologies do not allow us at all to track somebody that we're confident is a terrorist, if we find evidence of a terrorist plot somewhere in the Middle East, that traces directly back to London or New York, we have specific information, we are confident that this individual or this network is about to activate a plot and, despite knowing that information, despite having a phone number or despite having a social media address or a e-mail address, that we -- we can't penetrate that, that's a problem.

And so -- so that's the kind of dialogue that we're having to have with these companies. Part of it is a legal issue. Part of it is a technical question. But overall, I'm actually confident that we can balance these imperatives and we shouldn't feel as if because we've just seen such a horrific attack in Paris that suddenly everything should be done by the wayside.

We have -- we have -- unfortunately, this has been a constant backdrop. And I think will continue to be, for any prime minister or president, for some time to come, and we've got to make sure that we don't overreact, but that we remain vigilant and are serious about our responsibilities there. All right?

Thank you very much, everybody, Appreciate it.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You heard a reporter shouting a few extra questions. But the president and the prime minister wrapped up their news conference. They spoke for a little bit more than one hour. The war on terror certainly escalating as a result of what has happened in Paris and in Belgium, elsewhere in Europe over the past few days, clearly dominating, as well as the U.S. and international effort to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb. Those were the two major issues at this news conference.

We have a lot to dissect. Here in Washington with me, our chief Washington correspondent, Jake Tapper, the anchor of "The Lead." Also with us, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; our chief national correspondent, John King; our CNN national security commentator, Mike Rogers. Also our national security analyst, Peter Bergen; the former CIA operative, Bob Baer; our military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling; and "Daily Beast" contributor, Jamie Dutmer.

Jake, what jumped out at you? They spoke for more than an hour.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT & CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD: First of all, the number of questions and lengthy answers about Congress pushing forward a bill to impose more sanctions on Iran if these talks -- these nuclear talks fall through was surprising. I thought, although it's a big issue on capitol hill and a big issue in the White House, President Obama issuing a public veto threat if that bill put forward, not only by Republicans but if Democrats come forward, he said he will veto it. And the British prime minister saying he did, indeed, according to some press reports, confirming that he is calling members of Congress and not telling them not how they should vote but that he opposes this legislation which he thinks will hurt efforts to get Iran to walk away from any sort of nuclear weapons program that they're alleged to have.

Second point, I think the most pointed question that there was for either of the two world leaders about terrorism was one from Nick Robinson, of the BBC, in which he said, do you think, in his terms, standing on the sidelines of the U.S., U.K. and other countries in Syria, not getting more involved earlier on created this opportunity for terrorists with ISIS to be born and to thrive and to attack the West? And President Obama saying that he rejected the idea, A, that the U.S. and U.K. and other countries were standing by the sidelines, they were doing -- making many efforts and, B, that that necessarily created the space and who knows what would have actually happened? Both men condemning the terrorism in very stark terms. President Obama referring to it as nihilism. The prime minister, much more specifically identifying it as not only a death cult but calling it Islamist violent extremism, not the kind of language we normally hear from President Obama.

BLITZER: Let me go over to Gloria and John and Mike Rogers.

Let me play that little clip. Here it is. Then we'll discuss. Strong words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: First of all, look, we do face a very serious Islamist extremist terrorist threat in Europe, America and across the world. We have to be incredibly vigilant in terms of that threat. We have to strengthen our police and security and make sure we do everything we can to keep our countries safe. And that involves an incredibly long- term, patient, disciplined approach. There is no single, simple thing that needs to be done. It means closing down the ungoverned spaces that the terrorists operate in. It means working against ISIL in Iraq and Syria. It means countering this poisonous fanatical death cult of a narrative perverting the religion of Islam. It means working together with our oldest and best partners so that we share intelligence and security and try and prevent terrorist atrocities from taking place. It means all these things. And it is going to be a long, patient and hard struggle. I'm quite convinced we will come through it and we will overcome it because, in the end, the values that we hold to, of freedom, of democracy, of having open and tolerant societies, these are the strongest values there can be. And in the end, we will come through. But like some of the challenges our countries have faced together in the past, it will take great discipline, great patience, great hard work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Both leaders, Gloria, promising they will win. They will defeat the terrorists but it's certainly going to be a long, long struggle.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And I think they kept coming back to this notion of the balance between privacy and security. And you know that that's been an issue on Capitol Hill since 9/11, and in this country since 9/11.

And what Cameron said that struck me is he said, we're not looking for back doors as a way to get into your stuff. We're looking for legitimate front doors. And the president again made the point that if we can't read these encrypted e-mails. and this is the main way that terrorists are communicating, then we're at a complete disadvantage. And I think both of these men, who understand what liberty means, are sort of saying, you have to take another look at it. The president mentioned Snowden. And he said, but we have to be able to understand who's talking to whom here, and even if it's encrypted, we have to figure it out.

BLITZER: John, what jumped out at you?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The complexity in the calendar, the complexity of these issues. I think there was some hope, wishful thinking, obviously, but certainly, among the American people and maybe the global population, and even some in politics -- and the chairman can speak to this better than me -- who understand these issues in detail, that after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, that somehow that was a turning point and we were on the downhill in the war against terrorist groups. It's clear now, we're not on a downhill. It's a different challenge. You have al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, you have al Qaeda, you have ISIS, you have Boko Haram. Now you have self-radicalized or smaller cells across Europe and in the United States. Both leaders talking about how long this would take. Because of that, the separate challenges, the different challenges, and the complexity of the encryption issue and the technology issue and free speech. I think there was that moment where people had some wishful thinking. And it's been obliterated yet again by the events.

BLITZER: Mike Rogers, were you surprised how forceful the president and the prime minister both were in telling Congress right now, don't pass additional legislation imposing the threat of additional sanctions against Iran if these diplomatic negotiations fail, hold your fire, you can do that later, but it will undermine this process and only set the stage potentially for military action?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: A couple of things in that, Wolf. These members have participated in the understanding of what Iran was doing for years. And there's very senior Democrats -- this tells me there's a bit of a no confidence with the president's negotiation team. Remember, they will get ongoing briefings -- I got, as chairman -- ongoing briefings, as to the very detailed concessions, non-concessions, things they were giving, things they weren't giving. And there's been a host of problems with this. And part of it is the president's not done a great job in establishing relationships with either Democrats or Republican on the national security stage on these very tough issues. So I think you'll see Congress want to move forward and likely to move forward because, remember, it started out as a secret negotiation in Oman. I think that rattled our allies. Members of Congress have relationships with those countries and those individuals.

BLITZER: Did you know about those negotiations in Oman? You were the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: No, they didn't tell anyone.

BLITZER: Not even the chairman?

ROGERS: And they didn't tell our allies who are in the region and have a lot at stake. That's what's I think you see happening in Congress is this concern about where they're going, what concessions they're giving. And they believe they have to at least weigh in to make sure that there isn't problems after this --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Very quickly, I want to get your thoughts because both of the British reporters specifically asked about security threats facing Jewish schools, Jewish institutions in Britain right now in the aftermath of what happened to that kosher supermarket in Paris. Is there something out there that's going on, Mr. Chairman -- because you just gave up your position -- that we need to know right now? ROGERS: Again, the threat streams have been real, and the threat

matrix, how many different threat streams there are from different organizations has been very significant for over a year. What you see now, and many would believe and argue, is that there's a bit of a P.R. campaign in the type of targets of which they're hitting. They need to re-boost their ability to sell their radical Islamic vision and jihad. And so to do that, things that even though Muslims would say, we condemn the killings at the magazine, we condemn the killings at any Jewish event, be it at a deli or a synagogue, that at least they can find some identification in their faith to those particular issues, even though they condemn them. I would worry about this because it clearly shows that they know they're walking into a problem with ISIS being so brutal, using rape and murder and beheadings. There's a wing of al Qaeda, there's a wing of ISIS that understands they have to also realign their support from people they're going to recruit from and get money from. And that --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Isn't there a competition going on between --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: -- for recruits between the terrorist groups, between ISIS and al Qaeda in Yemen?

ROGERS: Absolutely. If you notice, ISIS came out in the beginning and didn't take credit for the shooting on the magazine but they said they were doing it on their behalf. Secondly, then al Qaeda came out with a formal video taking credit for it. That shows you that tension. And it's about money. It's about resources. Who gives money to which organization? And it's about people.

BLITZER: Stand by.

Everyone stand by.

We're only just getting started. We're having full analysis of what we just heard from the president of the United States, the prime minister of the United Kingdom. Much more of our special coverage coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Our biggest advantage major is that our Muslim populations, they feel themselves to be Americans. There is this incredible process of immigration and assimilation that is part of our tradition that is probably our greatest strength. Now, that doesn't mean that we aren't subject to the kinds of tragedies that we saw at the Boston Marathon. But that, I think, has been help. There are parts of Europe in which that's not the case. That's probably the greatest danger that Europe faces.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: The president of the United States speaking bluntly about the problems Muslims have faced in Europe, referring to countries like France and Belgium, maybe even the United Kingdom.

Jake Tapper, the president was blunt saying Muslims are a simulated in the United States for the most part but not necessarily in Europe. He says that's the greatest threat right now that a lot of Muslims can go ahead and be recruited by al Qaeda, or ISIS or other groups.

TAPPER: Because they're alienated in Europe and not so in the United States. We heard David Cameron push back very politely in repeat language that I heard when I heard his predecessor, Tony Blair, yesterday, and that is, don't assume the poverty and the alienation and the inability to assimilate, that's alone the problem. There's also this virulent ideology, extremist, virulent Islam, and that is the problem. And the reason that the Brits know this is because the 2005 London transit bombings, the terrorists were there, there had all sorts of advantages and were not alienated. If you look at the Tsarnaev brothers or Nidal Hasan in this country, they also didn't seem to be individuals who were on the outskirts of society. Yes, President Obama said that, and there's truth to it. There's much more of a difficulty of the Muslim populations in Europe in assimilating than here in the United States. But you also heard David Cameron push back on the notion that was alone enough.

BLITZER: He certainly did.

Peter Bergen, what jumped out at you from what we heard from the president and prime minister?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think the issue what the FBI calls Going Dark, the idea law enforcement will no longer look at encrypted communications. This is both a big commercial issue for American tech companies, which, in the wake of NSA revelations from Edward Snowden, lost potentially billions of dollars of income from people concerned about privacy issues. As you know, Wolf, a number of tech companies in the United States have talked about encrypting technology is a way that would basically be -- that there's no key to it. So that is a very big issue. The other thing that struck me, Wolf, Prime Minister Cameron said there's been one serious plot in the United Kingdom every year he's been in office. He's been in office since 2010. Depending on how you score it, that's four or five plots, which seem significant.

BLITZER: Bob Baer, he also suggested, the prime minister, this was not necessarily a game changer, what's been going over these past few days. He referred back to London in 2005. For the British, that was the game changer.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: I think he's right, Wolf. I don't think this is an existential threat to Europe. Terrorism has always been terrorism. I realize that it's particularly vicious and virulent, this Islamic jihad. But for me, Cameron's most important comment was his reference to ungoverned spaces. He's talking about Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Mali, and on and on and on. No one has offered a solution. what we're going to do. This is a breeding ground for jihadi terrorism. We can't occupy those parts of the world. There's no solution in sight in Syria, Iraq or Yemen. There's no government in Yemen. What are we going to do about that? That's the root problem. And neither the president, nor Cameron, addressed that.

BLITZER: General Hertling, what do you think of the president's response when he was asked by a British reporter if U.S. and Britain remaining on the sidelines in the war in Syria has propelled ISIS, this new terrorist threat that not only exists in the Middle East but is now spreading?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I disagree with it, Wolf. I think ISIS is just another name for the types of organizations that have been fomented in the area the last decade or more.

But I'd like to pile onto the conversation tht Peter mentioned in terms of the conversation regarding the number of threats. Having served in Europe seven of the last 12 years before I retired, this was the -- the prime minister said he saw a threat a year. But I will tell what the president said about having continuous threats, which was something I dealt with on a daily basis, both as the commander and as the chief operations officer in Europe. It was everyday, there was some types of terrorist organizations to the point where even, in 2011, we created a program called Wolf Spotter, which is still in place, which looks at lone wolves and the up-and-coming organizations, not the major organizations, to say, how do you stop that. And we share that information with other governments. I'm sure some of that information got in the government that contributed to this event that occurred last night -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I want everyone to stand by because we're getting new information.

General Hertling, thanks very, very much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.