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Europe Scrambles to Counter Terror Threat; Both Jews and Muslims on Guard in Belgium; French Investigation Reveals More Intelligence Failures; Greek Police Arrest New Suspects; European Ministers Confront Growing Threat; Rebel Forces Clash in Yemen; U.S. Infiltrates North Korea Networks; Gov. Jindal's Controversial Comments; Ceasefire Reached with Rebel Group

Aired January 19, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 7:00 p.m. in Paris, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 9:00 p.m. in Sana'a, Yemen. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, European leaders are scrambling right now to deal with a growing terror threat. Foreign ministers met in Brussels today against the backdrop of raids, arrests an investigations.

Here are the latest developments. French authorities say DNA from two people was found on Amedy Coulibaly's belongings. A source says one person's DNA was found on the car that transported Coulibaly to that kosher supermarket in Paris. That person is in custody. Another DNA sample was found on a gun magazine.

A suspect arrested during a raid in Belgium last week has been charged with participation in a terrorist organization and possession of explosives. But his lawyer says he's not a terrorist. He was just delivering a pair of shoes to a friend. That's what the lawyer says.

In all, five Belgium nationals are facing terrorism charges in connection with the raid in Verviers. Two more suspects are in custody in France. And Greek authorities have arrested an Algerian man wanted on terror charges in Belgium.

Authorities in Belgium are racing to identify and arrest suspect who may be a part of a terrorist cell.

Meanwhile, hundreds of troops are protecting Jewish sites throughout the country and the country's Muslims they are on guard, as well, against the potential backlash.

CNN's Phil Black reports from Belgium.

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PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Soldiers and children side by side on the streets of a European city. These Belgian paratroopers were trained to fight wars, instead they stand guard outside a Jewish school in Antwerp. The military is now a highly visible in the city's Jewish district. Locals are grateful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only we that were in the problem, it's everyone in Europe which is the problem especially. And I'm really thankful for them doing their best.

BLACK: Soldiers were deployed in Antwerp and Brussels after investigators moved to break up a suspected terror plot to attack police. Two suspects were killed during this firefight. Belgium's Jewish community also believes it's high up on the list of potential Islamic targets. Last year, a man stormed a Jewish museum in Brussels killing four people inside.

MENACHEM MARGOLIN, RABBI, EUROPEAN JEWISH ASSOCIATION: People feel it's dangerous to walk on the street. People are afraid to come to synagogues, are afraid send their kids to a Jewish school.

BLACK: Members of Belgium's Muslim community are also scared about what will happen now. Frank Hench (ph) is the imam at a mask in Verviers where terrorist suspects opened fire against police Thursday night. He tells me, locals are shocked to know terrorists might have been living among them.

Belgium has a problem with radicalization. Around 300 are thought to have travelled to Syria to fight and train with Islamist groups, the highest per capita rate of recruitment of any European country. The imam blames social problem, unemployed, alienated young men who seek identity and purpose through radical Islam. Jewish community leaders agree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite sure that it's - these are true thoughts in these wars. It's the responsibility of the governments, not just to see now but to make more gun and more security and police but to make sure to see the problem before it comes and to try to prevent it.

BLACK: Rabbi Margolin says the answer is more education and more guns. He wants Jewish institutions to be allowed to establish their own security forces. Imam Hench fears many of Europe's Muslims will now be persecuted because of events in France and Belgium. Two scared communities struggling to respond to the terror deliberately created by a radical few.

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BLITZER: Phil Black is joining us now live from Brussels. Give us an update on where things stand, Phil, with the investigation and where it's heading?

BLACK: Well, Wolf, crucially, a key arrest in Athens, Greece. That is where Greek police, acting upon information provided by Belgium authorities, have arrested man. And the Belgian investigators now want to extradite him back here. They say he's a 33-year-old Algerian, but they have not revealed what role they believe he played in the terror plot that they broke up just last week.

You remember, during those raids, there was a raid at a property in the city of Verviers where two people were killed. A third man was arrested there. He survived that shoot-out. But we've spoken to him, learned - or his lawyer, I should say. Learned a little bit more about him. His name is Matowan El Bali (ph) and he denies any involvement in this terror plot. He said the only reason that he was at that property at that time is because he was doing a favor for his mother delivering, he says, a pair of shoes, Nike Runners, to one of the men who then died during the police raid. He said when the shooting started, he dived out the window. He was arrested there. He insists he has nothing to do with it, but he remains in custody and charged with helping to prepare the terror plot -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Phil Black, thanks very much. Let's get more. We'll bring in two experts. CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank. He's joining us from New York. And our National Security Analyst Peter Bergen. He's here with me in Washington.

Paul, I know you're talking to sources over there in Belgium. What are you - what are you hearing about this investigation?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Wolf, they are still worried there could be a threat out there. They're still worried that part of the cell is still operational, that they could launch attacks to avenge the death of two of their comrades in that raid last week in Verviers. It's not clear whether they have got the key guy in Greece. I think the indications, at this point, are that this middle man with links back to ISIS is still at large. That it's somebody else in custody in Athens and being extradited back to Belgium.

They brought the Americans in, American intelligence services in on this last week because of their technical capabilities, eaves dropping, to try and locate this key middle person back to ISIS. But the Americans weren't able to find him, the Greeks weren't able to find him last week. It's possible that he's actually left Greece, at this point, Wolf.

And throughout Europe, there is concern that people connected to this cell in Brussels, people who have come back from Syria, and there are some 500 who have come back Syria, fighters, may also move towards launching terror attacks. There is an assessment from the Europeans that ISIS is pivoting towards prioritizing terrorist attacks against the countries in Europe which are launching air strikes against it in Iraq. And that's United Kingdom, and France, and Holland, and Denmark, as well as Belgium.

BLITZER: So, I assume they're on a higher threat level in those countries. Peter, it's -- it looks like throughout Europe, starting in France, in Belgium, an arrest in Greece. But these other countries, they're going - they're arresting people as well, including Germany.

PETER BERGEN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. So, I mean, we've had - this is an unprecedented flow of foreign fighters to Syria. You know, the Brits have got 500. They can't follow all those. We've had, of course in Belgium, the events that we've seen unfold. The Germans have had a significant number. There isn't a country in Europe that hasn't had, you know, dozens or scores even small countries like Denmark or the Scandinavian countries. So, you know, it's a big problem.

On the other hand, we're aware that this problem exists in a way that we weren't after the Afghan War which produced Osama Bin Laden and other folks who, obviously, then, you know, attacked the United States and other western targets. So, there has been a huge law enforcement effort which has been going on for the last two or three years, Wolf, to try to manage this problem.

BLITZER: Paul, you know Belgium well. It seems to be, obviously a very small country, but particularly vulnerable. Why is that?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, one of the reasons there are so many Belgians that have - that have gone to fight in Syria, about 350, a hundred of which are thought to be back in Syria. Two hundred - from Syria and a couple of hundred fighting there in Syria right now. And one of the reasons for that is because there was this pro-ISIS support group, Sharia (ph) for Belgium, which early on sent recruits from Belgium to Syria to join ISIS.

And, of course, once people are there, it's easier for others to go and join. It's kind of a like a snowballing affect. And, in fact, members of this group were on trial in Antwerp. And the verdict was actually expected the day before this operation in Verviers against this group. So, some speculation that there could be some connection there. Many of those on trial in Antwerp, actually on trial in Absentia (ph), they're actually with ISIS in Syria - Wolf.

BLITZER: It's a pretty alarming situation. All right, guys, stand by. Paul Cruickshank, Peter Bergen, we're going to stay on top of this story.

We're also watching an active developing situation in Yemen right now. Very disturbing developments. The prime minister there went into hiding as heavy fighting between rebels and government forces erupted around the presidential palace.

And there's another developing story we're watching, as well. It turns out the United States, according to these reports, infiltrated North Korea's computers years before the hack at Sony Pictures.

And Bobby Jindal, he's the governor of Louisiana. He'll be joining us live this hour. He's in London. We'll talk about some of his controversial comments about Muslim extremists and a whole lot more. Bobby Jindal standing by live.

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BLITZER: It's an incredibly tense situation right now in Yemen's capital of Sana'a. The Yemeni government and some of the Houthi political officials, they've agreed to what's being described as a fragile cease-fire. This was the scene earlier, though, today. It's unclear who fired first but heavy fighting erupted around the presidential palace, each side blaming the other.

It's a very complicated story, but we have two people who will help us sort it all out. Our Senior International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us from Sana'a. He's the only western T.V. journalist on the ground in Yemen. He's risking his life being there. And our CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst, the former CIA operative, Bob Baer is joining us from Telluride, Colorado.

So, the latest, I've heard, Nick, is, what, there is almost like a coup attempt underway in Sana'a. The chief of staff to the president, was he captured by these rebels? The U.S. embassy - the U.S. Military is on standby to try to evacuate American diplomats and other civilians. Set the scene for us, Nick. What is going on where you are?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's really a picture that makes you wonder quite how much the government is really holding onto the reins power here. Yes, the chief of staff kidnapped over 48 hours ago now from the very city center that led other presidential officials to worry. They could, potentially, also be abducted by the Houthi rebel movement who said they took the chief of staff, detained him to stop the president bringing in the new constitution.

So, the president's men put up some road blocks that angered the Houthis who've moved into the castle months ago, have their checkpoints all over the city. The clashes began. We don't know who started it. And then, we saw, from this point here, a remarkable sight much of the day. A jewel (ph) of heavy artillery around the presidential administration, a building that most Yemeni officials say, if you control, you control the country.

They tried to talk a cease-fire, but when the prime minister left meeting the president and the Houthis, his convoy was attacked. We don't know who by. The Houthi representative was also attacked as he left that meeting. They sent (ph) some information and said that sState T.V., state news agencies were under Houthi control. The Houthis denied that. Their government called this a coup attempt to some sorts. There's now a cease-fire. It's been relatively quiet for a few hours now. Dark has fallen in. Occasional sporadic gunfire.

The real fear, though, that these closed door talks happening for a political solution (INAUDIBLE.) This could start all over again overnight -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's very worrisome to U.S. officials here in Washington, Bob. I know the U.S. embassy is a little removed from the presidential palace there in Sana'a, but the U.S. military is clearly now on standby for a possible evacuation orders of the American embassy. There are American diplomats, there are military personnel, U.S. Marines. There are a lot of civilians, NGOs and others who are there. If the U.S. has to go in and evacuate, that's a very risky operation, isn't it?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Absolutely, Wolf. They have to send in C-17, large airplanes. You can't do this by helicopter safely. You have to put a lot of forces - there's an Air Force unit in Europe that can do this. There's 100 Marines at the embassy. That's not enough to hold it because what we're seeing is a full-fledged civil war. And also - and another, you know, aspect is that our intelligence

collection in Yemen will suffer greatly. You know, if we're going to target al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula without an embassy, it's virtually impossible. You can watch these targets from the air, you can listen to cell phones, but it's nothing like having a central government aiding you in this war on terror. And with the Yemeni government in tatters, you know, it's going to be very difficult to go after these people who launched the attack on France.

BLITZER: And if the Yemeni government collapses, Nick, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, which is based where you are there in Yemen, presumably they'll have a much freer hand to do what they want and to set the motion for terrorist operations not only there but elsewhere in the region, indeed around the world.

WALSH: Well, certainly they got a foothold in Yemen initially because of the chaos here. And the issue really is that the Houthis, they are predominantly Shia. They're often facing Sunni groups and the government often finds (ph) on the side of the Sunnis in that fighting. So that's got many Sunnis worried, led them to back al Qaeda linked militia and effectively that has given al Qaeda, as some say, a bit of breathing room on the ground. They've got enough recruits to fight the fight for them here. So their external operations guys can concentrate more on launching attacks on the west. That's how one diplomat explained it to me. But in short, really, the more chaotic Yemen gets, the harder it is for Yemeni intelligence to track down al Qaeda targets and help American drones. They've been losing hundreds in the past years or so simply in that fighting, the internal conflict too. All the chaos here benefits al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in short and that's the real concern as to what we're seeing unfold in Sanaa today, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. We're worried about you, Nick. Be careful over there. Nick Paton Walsh, one of our courageous journalists, on the scene in Yemen. The only western television reporter in Yemen right now. Bob Baer, thanks very much to you, as well. We're going to see what happens. We know the contingency planning is underway right now for a possible, possible U.S. evacuation of American diplomats and military personnel, civilians in Yemen. Clearly that's a major, major source of concern.

Up next, we're getting new details on why the U.S. believed North Korea was directly responsible for that hack on Sony Pictures. And later, why the governor of Louisiana is in London right now, Bobby Jindal, there you see him. He's talking about the threat from Islamic extremists. We're going to hear from the governor himself. He's standing by to join us live. That's coming up.

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BLITZER: When Sony Pictures was hacked last year, U.S. authorities quickly pointed the finger at North Korean hackers. They said it was in retaliation for the comedy film "The Interview," about an assassination plot against the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un. But not everyone in the cyber security community bought into the theory. Some saying it was a disgruntled former Sony employee who may have been responsible. Now we're learning that the U.S., the Obama administration was so confident about North Korea being the culprit, it was so confident because it had access to the country's cyber networks. Barbara Starr has been tracking this story for us, is joining us now live from the Pentagon.

As you know, Barbara, "The New York Times" reporting extensively on a program by the NSA, the National Security Agency, hacking in effect going into North Korea's computers. Tell us what's going on here.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, "The New York Times" makes some fascinating points. When this all emerged and the White House, President Obama fingered North Korea for the Sony hack, everybody wondered how could the U.S. be so certain. The U.S. doesn't typically make these accusations, they don't bring it out right in public. But from the president on down, the administration was certain.

And "The New York Times" reporting, now we know why, that the National Security Agency, that top secrets eavesdropping agency, if you will, of the United States government, back starting in 2010 had basically done its own hacking job and it cracked into the Chinese networks according to "The New York Times," that the North Koreans use to hook themselves up essentially to the web. It's their link to the outside world, to the Internet, that the U.S. inserted some malware in there and using that was able to continue to track North Korean cyber spies and North Korean moves.

Now, the question is, how soon did the administration, the U.S., really know about the details of the Sony hack? By all accounts they did know, but did they know soon enough to be able to warn Sony. It appears they did not. They did not know with that specificity. It was only after the fact when they went back and tracked everything down that they were able to put all the pieces together. But, still, a fascinating look into how this world of cyber spying really works.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it really is a fascinating look at that. A very lengthy, extensive "New York Times" report. Is it safe to assume now, what, now that everybody knows that the U.S. had supposedly hacked into the North Korean cyber world, that that whole thing has been shut down? What are the ramifications of this revelation?

STARR: Well, this is the typical problem when these intelligence programs are revealed, they either have to be shut down or they become so useless because the person you're -- agency, the government that you're spying against knows you're there and they find an alternative means to communicate - for their communications. What are the Chinese doing about it may be very interesting and we honestly, candidly do not know the answer to that at this point because it's everyone's understanding that North Korean's interaction in the cyber world goes through links provided by China. China has, at various points, become, shall we say, annoyed with North Korea and its efforts. Now, whether the Chinese have been able to control what the North Koreans are doing, we don't know and we don't know if the U.S. is still engaging in this cyber spying through those Chinese links. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara, thanks very much. Barbara Starr reporting for us from the Pentagon.

Up next, I'll speak live with Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. He'll be joining me from London. We're going to find out why he's raising some alarms about so-called Muslim "no go zones" in western Europe. Very controversial remarks. We're going to get to him, get to the reaction he's been receiving for those comments. Stand by.

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