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British Teen Girls May Be Headed For Syria; Three Missing Teens Took Flight To Turkey; Keys To Curtailing Radicalization And Recruitment; U.S. Official Details Plan To Retake Iraqi City; Giuliani And 2016 GOP Hopefuls; Can Iraqi Troops Retake Mosul From ISIS?; Giuliani Remarks; Kasich Talks ISIS Fight

Aired February 20, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 9:00 p.m. in Mosul in Iraq. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with breaking news, the disappearance of three British teenager girls. It's believed they're running away from London to Syria. Our Senior International Correspondent Nima Elbagir is joining us now live from London. Nima, what are officials there saying? What's going on?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have managed to let -- to connect between these three girls, Wolf, and another young girl who was almost apprehended back in December, she and a friend. The plane they were on was stopped. It was taxiing on the runway. It was headed to Istanbul. One girl was returned to the family. The second disappeared and is believed to have reached Syria. She is friends with these three girls now being sought.

The M.O. now is very easy to recognize, the authorities tell us. Young girls were of a British Muslim background. They get these flights to Istanbul and from there the smuggling gangs that take them over the border are waiting. Scotland Yard tell us that they've been talking a lot in the past about young men heading over into Syria. But the growing trend, Wolf, the sheer numbers of young women and girls heading into Syria, that's the new big concern.

BLITZER: So, if they get to Istanbul, let's say they fly to Istanbul and then they're out there, can they be stopped really effectively? I know that border between Turkey and Syria is pretty porous right now. Can those young girls be stopped from actually getting into Syria where they might connect with ISIS?

ELBAGIR: The hope is that someone watching this will see their pictures and will get in touch with Turkish authorities. British police believe that the girls are still in Turkey. But this is a window of opportunity and it is closing very quickly because once they get into Syria, we know that ISIS, in the past, have killed and have threatened violence to any of those who join them and try and get back.

But, in addition to that, you also have some pretty tough laws that the British prime minister is trying to push through to punish those who go into Syria and try and come back. And the fear, especially for girls of that age, that's going to stop them trying to get home to the families. But the message that British have been trying to get out now, Wolf, is it's not too late. Please, please come home.

BLITZER: I hope they do. All right, thanks very much. Nima Elbagir in London.

I want to bring in Peter Neumann now. He's the director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence at King's College in London. He was one of the speakers during the final day of the White House summit in combatting extremism. You've done a lot of research in this area. A 15, 16, 17- year-old British Muslim girl. How do they get brainwashed to thinking if they leave their families, leave their parents, they fly off to Turkey, try to cross the border into Syria. What's motivating these young girls?

PETER NEUMANN, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF RADICALIZATION AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE, KING'S COLLEGE: It's a new phenomenon. We've never seen the numbers of females going to conflict zones ever before. If you had asked me 10 years ago, I would have struggled to identify any females that were parts of the jihadist movement. In these cases, really clearly seems to be a counter culture that interests them. They get excited about being against society, going against the mainstream. They probably will have seen a lot of pictures online. To some extent, it's almost like a cliche. But to some extent, there's also, in very young girls' cases, a romantic obsession with fighters who are rugged. They see their pictures. They want to be part of that movement. That seems to be completely against everything that they've experienced back home.

BLITZER: So, they've been told, if you go to Syria, if you meet up with these ISIS terrorists, you're going to get married. That's going to be your husband, if you will. And that's what's motivating them?

NEUMANN: I think it is very clear to them that they cannot be single teenage girls in Raqqa, that as soon as they get over there, there will be a process whereby they get married. And a lot of them, truth be told, are excited about the idea of getting married to a fighter.

BLITZER: But somebody in -- back in London or elsewhere in Britain has to be talking. They have to get money. Where do they get money to fly to Istanbul? They need contacts once they get to Istanbul. Who's going to show them where the crossings into Syria might --

NEUMANN: Yes.

BLITZER: -- this seems like a pretty sophisticated operation.

NEUMANN: It is. But it is also possible to just go over there. I mean, it's not --

BLITZER: But they need money to do that, too.

NEUMANN: They need money to do that. And we've been monitoring a lot of these cases. We see, for example, that people have arguments with their parents. And that's really important because parents are the last people these people are in touch with and they have a lot of power here. We've seen, for example, many cases that kids were lying to their parents. They said, I need a new laptop -- I need a new laptop for school. Can you give me $500? And they spend those $500 on an airline ticket to Turkey. So, there's a lot going on and that's why I said at the White House that we need to empower families. They are the last stop. And 99 percent of them do not want their kids to go to Syria.

BLITZER: Yes.

NEUMANN: So, they are a best asset.

BLITZER: I'm sure their parents are freaking out right now. I want to play a clip. This is what you said yesterday at President Obama's summit on combatting extremism. I'll play the clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEUMANN (on camera): One of our best assets are the fighters' families. 99 percent of the parents do not want their kids to go to Syria. None of them want their kids to die. The Internet, if you think about it, is probably the most powerful tool that ever existed for promoting ideas. Good ideas, bad ideas. But right now, we basically handed over that powerful tool to the extremists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Because I heard a lot of that, these extremists, these terrorists, they're great in social media on the Internet. But we're not? We're not great at that? The United States of America, these moderate Arab countries, they're not great at social media? What's going on here?

NEUMANN (live): This is the absurdity of the situation that a tool that we, the west, have created that is the most powerful tool to spread ideas, has been handed over to the extremists and they are using it much more capably than we do. And part of what this summit was about was about discussing ways in which we can leverage community groups to get their ideas out there. How can they be better to engage and challenge violent extremists online? Because a lot of talk is about taking content off the Internet. And that may be part of the solution. But however much you take off, there will always be extremist content on the Internet. It's unavoid -- it's unavoidable. So, we have to become better at engaging and challenging these views online.

BLITZER: All right. Peter Neumann, I know you're based in London right now but you're always welcome to come here when you're in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

NEUMANN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Now to plans for a major offensive to try to take Iraq's second largest city back from ISIS. A U.S. military official has provided the most detailed information yet on the operation to push ISIS out of Mosul. It's now expected to begin in either April or May. ISIS troops paraded through the streets of Mosul after seizing control of the city last June.

Let's get some more now on the plan to try to drive them out. Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is standing by. Barbara, walk us through what you've learned about this potential spring offensive.

BARBARA STARR. CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is a potential spring offensive, Wolf. The Pentagon saying the plan now, and they say it is an Iraqi plan, start the offensive late April, early May. This will put it before the heat of summer. It will put it before the holy month of Ramadan. They think that Iraqi troops will be ready. The Iraqi government, Prime Minister Abadi, wants this operation to go forward. But it will depend on whether 20,000 to 25,000 Iraqi forces really finally, months later, are trained and ready to try and take Mosul back from ISIS. Iraq's second largest city.

It was a devastating blow last June when Iraqi forces basically collapsed and abandoned the city to ISIS and ISIS troops rolling in. They have had that city under an iron grip ever since then. This is very key to Iraq, re-establishing its control over its own country.

But the big question, Wolf, on the table, as you know, is what help will the U.S. have to give those Iraqi troops when they go in? Will there be a small number of U.S. specialists who can help, military personnel who can help Iraqi forces pick out those ISIS targets on the ground for air strikes or for ground attacks? Will the Iraqis need that U.S. help on the ground? And if they do, that is a recommendation that the military will have to make to President Obama and President Obama would have to approve a go-ahead for that -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thanks very much.

Up next, we're going to dig deeper into this potential Mosul offense. Our experts are standing by. Will the Iraqi forces actually be up for the fight? And why would the U.S. be revealing detailed battle plan to the world right now?

Also ahead, Rudy Giuliani doubling down on his controversial comments about President Obama. Now, all eyes are on the 2016 Republican presidential hopefuls to see how they respond to what the former New York City mayor had to say about the president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The U.S. military official provides details of a plan for a ground offensive against ISIS. It's aimed at driving ISIS out of Mosul, Iraq's second largest city. It's a city of nearly 2 million people. Militants took control of Mosul last June.

Let's bring in our panel. Joining us, our Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman, he's in Irbil in northern Iraq, not all that far away from Mosul. Also joining us, retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, he's a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, a former U.S. Delta Force commander. And Bob Baer, he's a CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst, a former CIA operative.

Ben, you're obviously very familiar with Mosul. You've been there. I've been there. Are we talking -- we're obviously talking about house to house, street to street urban warfare if these troops actually launch this offensive.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf, that is inevitable. It's a city, as you said, of 2 million people. And many of the inhabitants are not necessarily going to be welcoming to Iraqi forces or the Kurds. And, in fact, today, we were up on the front lines speaking with Kurdish fighters and commanders and they said, in addition to the substantial military capabilities of ISIS, ISIS has a habit of, in villages, towns and cities, just sowing hundreds, in some cases thousands, of IEDs, booby traps and what not, when they pull back.

So, even if the initial push into Mosul doesn't meet resistance from fighters, there is a huge danger of things like IEDs. So, it's going to be a real challenge. And, certainly, what we're hearing on the front lines at least, is a lot of skepticism about this proposed timetable, April or May, for some sort of offensive to retake this major Iraqi city.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, and that's when the weather gets better over there.

Colonel Reese, you're familiar with this area, as well. This plan, as detailed by a military official to reporters at the Pentagon yesterday calls for as many as 20,000, 25,000, maybe 30,000 Iraq troops. Iraqi -- regular Iraqi soldiers, if you will, going in there, some Peshmerga, some Kurdish fighters, backed, to a certain degree, by U.S. troops. But, as you know, and as all of us know, the Iraqi troops, they simply abandoned their positions last June when ISIS came in. They left behind all that U.S. armor, the tanks, the weapons, the ammunition. All that stuff. Here's the question, can you really rely on these Iraqi army troops this time to get the job done?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Wolf, we have to. It's their country. It's their city. We have to. Now, what did they not have last time was air power. And that's what we bring in. We bring the air power in. We bring the ISR in. We bring a lot of intelligence that these Iraqi soldiers did not have. And that gains a lot of confidence for a ground soldier to have these combat enablers on the ground. So we have to, because at the end of the day, this is not our fight. We're an enabling force for this next piece.

BLITZER: Bob, there's been some criticism of the military for releasing all of this detailed information, basically telling ISIS, get ready, the Iraqis are coming in, the Iraqi army is coming in in March or April or May or whenever they're going to go in there. Is that giving them advance notice so they can prepare, they can get their IEDs, they can get their booby traps, they can get all of their stuff ready?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I think they're already ready. We've been talking about the Mosul offensive for a couple of weeks now. Putting a date to it, you know, before the summer heat is - it won't come as a surprise to them. But I'd feel a lot better if there were American forces on the ground. You know, something like Delta Force to really back these guys up. Because, Wolf, it's not just the Islamic State and these recruits of Europe and central Asia and the rest of it. You also still have Bathe (ph) officer, former Saddam officers have not come over to Baghdad at all and they will be defending the city and they are trained and they are capable. You have a lot of tribes as well, Sunni Arab tribes, that haven't completely gone over to Baghdad either. So it's - I -- the outcome of this offensive on Mosul, it's going to be a tough fight.

BLITZER: It's going to be house to house, street to street fighting and there are going to be a lot of casualties all around.

Ben, here's what intrigues me. And you're there. You know this area well. The Iraqi army, not necessarily all that good and they were a total failure last year. The Peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, they're courageous, they're brave, but they're fighting with old equipment. Artillery pieces going back to World War II, as we documented here on CNN.

You know, the strongest military might be those pro-Iranian Iraqi Shiite militias. There are tens of thousands of them. Would they -- they don't want ISIS either in Iraq. They want to take over. They're backed by Iran, as I said. Would they be part of this potential offensive to retake Mosul, these Shiite militias?

WEDEMAN: Well, I don't think the Pentagon is actually mentioning them as potential participants, but what we saw when we were in Baghdad, going to the front lines, the defensive belt around the city, was that the closer you got to the front lines, the less of the Iraqi army you saw and the more of these popular mobilization units, in Arabic (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). They were the ones who were clearly doing the heavy lifting. And certainly they've relieved a lot of pressure on the Iraqi army. But if it's the Iraqi army and not these militias that are going in, they're going to be really put to the test.

And, of course, the other problem is that there -- this is an area -- Mosul is a city with Sunni Arabs, with Kurds, with Christians. There's not necessarily going to be a lot of eagerness to see thousands of potentially radical Shia that you would have in these population mobilization units. So it would be highly problematic to send them in. But, yes, they're more motivated. In some respects they're better armed and better trained than the Iraqi army itself. And if you look at the whole range of military units in Iraq, the Peshmerga, those Shia militias, the army, the army is really the weakest link in this chain.

Wolf.

BLITZER: The most disappointing - the most disappointing link, especially since the U.S. spent a decade arming them, training them and certainly this is not - was not supposed to happen. They simply ran away in the face of these ISIS militants coming in. I want all of you to stand by. We've got a lot more to discuss on

when's going on.

There's other news that we're following, including a huge uproar here in the United States. The former New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani, he's stirred up a major controversy for alleging that the president of the United States doesn't love the United States of America. We're going to tell you what Giuliani is saying to the critics and they are pounding and pounding him right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The former New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani, is now doubling down on comments he made Wednesday night that President Obama does not love America. At a private dinner event for the governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker, in New York, Politico is reporting that Giuliani had these words to say. "I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America. He doesn't love you and he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country."

In a follow-up interview with "The New York Times" today, Giuliani dismissed the criticism he's been getting, saying it had nothing to do with race. He said his comments were meant to describe the world view that had shaped the president's upbringing. Let me quote from "The New York Times" interview. "Some people thought it was racist. I thought that was a joke since he was brought up by a white mother, a white grandfather, went to white schools and most of this he learned from white people. This isn't racism. This is socialism or possibly anti- colonialism."

And about an hour ago, President Obama seemed to weigh in on the comments at a speech he delivered before the Democratic National Committee here in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not about the back and forth of politics. It's about doing things that make people's lives better. It's about doing things that make us confident that America will continue on this upward trajectory that began so many years ago. It's about making this nation we love more perfect. We are Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, you heard him say "this nation we love." Let's bring in our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, who is with us right now.

Gloria, I mean, a lot of us are surprised. Rudy Giuliani's an intelligent guy. Why is he doing this right now? Why --

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I have no idea.

BLITZER: Why is he saying the president of the United States does not love America?

BORGER: I have no idea. First of all, private fund-raiser. Reminds you a little bit of Mitt Romney, private fund-raiser, 47 percent remark.

BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: When you don't think anybody's listening maybe you say these things.

BLITZER: But there are hundreds of people in that room.

BORGER: Right. First rule of hole, stop digging. I think his comments to "The New York Times" made it worse. And I think this is the last thing Republicans want to be talking about, Wolf.

BLITZER: Because he's - he's putting these other Republican presidential candidates in a rather awkward position. They have to now either defend him or say he's wrong.

BORGER: You know, you've got Republican presidential candidates out there, potential candidates, Jeb Bush, talking about poverty. Governor John Kasich, whom I just interviewed -

BLITZER: Of Ohio.

BORGER: Of Ohio, talking about pulling people out of poverty. You have a party that wants to appeal to a broader demographic. They want to change the Republican Party's perception of only appealing to the wealthy 1 percent. And when you say something like this, which is just a whack at the president, it doesn't help them. It takes them off their message. And their message is, we want to be a broader tent, we want to be more inclusive and, you know, stop with this garbage.

BLITZER: You interviewed Governor Kasich of Ohio. A lot of us think he's a potential vice presidential running mate.

BORGER: I do. Yes.

BLITZER: But I want to play a clip of what he said to you about ISIS and the struggle to defeat this terror group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: At some point, in dealing with ISIS, you mark my words, whether John Kasich, you ever hear from him again, at some point it will require boots on the ground from the world to be able to deal with this problem. And I would rather deal with it sooner than later, but you just don't go running over there. You've got to have a battle plan. You've got to figure out exactly what you're going to do. But I would never suggest that we should engage in nation building or trying to convert all these people to our way of life. We need stability and we need to stop this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So when he says boots on the ground, is he talking about U.S. boots on the ground? Iraqi boots? Arab boots? What's he talking about?

BORGER: He -- he is talking about American boots on the ground, in addition to, as part of a broader international coalition of the willing, right? And that would include Middle Eastern nations. It would include European nations. He's not saying go it alone, but he is saying that even though the American people might be war wary, I asked him about that, he said, look, you have to lead. You can't just stick your finger in the air. Sometimes America has to lead. And so, you know, what he's saying is, you can't rule it out for political reasons. You have to acknowledge to the American people that, in the end, if you want to defeat ISIS, it might require a coalition to do it and America should be part of that coalition.

BLITZER: He's a smart guy, John Kasich.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Very popular in Ohio. Got himself re-elected.

BORGER: Sixty-four percent of the vote, 60 percent of women, 26 percent of minorities.

BLITZER: Yes, and a lot of -- here's what worries a lot of Democrats. Jeb Bush, popular in Florida. John Kasich, popular in Ohio.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: If the Republicans and the Electoral College take Florida and Ohio, Hillary Clinton -

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: Assuming she's the Democratic presidential nominee, could have trouble getting elected.

BORGER: Here's another statistic for you, Wolf. No Republican has ever won the presidency without winning Ohio.

BLITZER: Yes. All right.

BORGER: Important.

BLITZER: So maybe it will be Bush-Kasich. Who knows? You never know.

BORGER: Kasich says he's not interested, but who knows? OK.

BLITZER: Yes. He probably would be interested as being a vice presidential running mate.

BORGER: Yes, we'll see.

BLITZER: We'll leave it there. All right, to see Gloria's full interview with John Kasich, watch "State of the Union" this Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern. Kasich among Gloria's guests.

For years, they've had a strained relationship. Some thought it was just a clash of personalities. But our next guest says one issue has put the U.S. president and the Israeli prime minister past the tipping point. David Ignatius of "The Washington Post" is standing by. He's just back from Israel.

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