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Three Men Accused Of Trying To Join ISIS; FBI Arrests Three Men Before Flight To Turkey; FBI Radicalization Investigations In All 50 States; Threat Against High-End Malls In Jordan; Iraqi Military Captures Parts Of Key City; Mosul Offensive Timing; ISIS Kidnaps Christians; FBI Arrests Three in New York

Aired February 25, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We're starting with breaking news out of New York City right now. The FBI has three men in custody. Men who were planning, they say, to fly to Turkey and then join up with ISIS in Syria.

Our Justice Reporter Evan Perez is joining us from New York. He's got details. This is a very disturbing development. Tell us, first of all, about these three men who have just been arrested.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, we're talking about three men who were planning to travel to Turkey with eventual plans to join ISIS in Syria. The FBI says that one of them was arrested early this morning as he was trying to board a plane in -- at JFK Airport here in New York. Another one was arrested in Florida and another one here in Brooklyn.

The allegation from the FBI is that these three were something of a network trying to get over there and join these militants in Syria. Now, if their plan did not succeed to join ISIS, they also had plans to carry out terrorist attacks here in this country, perhaps attacking -- trying to kill the president of the United States or FBI agents and police officers. It's a very serious complaint against these three.

And, Wolf, this is a really interesting case, in several respects, because the FBI and the National Security Division of the Justice Department have been looking to see if there are any indications of networks trying to get these people, these recruits over to Syria. And they haven't found it. This case presents that exact fear that they've -- that they've been wondering and they've been expecting to find.

BLITZER: Two of these men -- all of these men are residents of the United States. But two of them are citizens of Uzbekistan. One is a citizen of Kazakhstan. But I take it they were legal residents in the United States. Do we know that?

PEREZ: They are, Wolf. And, you know, what's interesting, too, according to the FBI is two of them got on their radar last summer. And the FBI introduced an undercover informant to try to figure out what exactly they were up to because they were talking about support for ISIS and they were expressing interest to travel over there and join with these militants.

And according to what the FBI says they have on them, which includes recorded conversations, one of these guys also was noticed by his mother who was worried that he might be radicalizing and perhaps intending to travel to Syria. She took away his passport. And so, he decided to try to come up with an alternative reason for how he would get over there. It's something that they were very determined to do, Wolf.

BLITZER: The three men, aged 19, 24 and 30. Stand by, Evan.

All this news comes just a short time after we heard directly from the FBI director, James Comey, who had a shocking revelation. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, DIRECTOR, FBI: Those people exist in every state. I have home-grown violent extremist investigations in every single state. Until a few weeks ago, there was 49 states. Alaska had none which I couldn't quite figure out. But Alaska has now joined the group. So, we have investigations of people in various stages of radicalizing in all 50 states. We are drifting to a place as a country where there will be broad swaths of American life that are beyond the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Pretty shocking comments from the FBI director. Let's discuss what's going on. Let's follow the breaking news. Joining us, Bobby Ghosh, he's our CNN Global Affairs Analyst, the managing editor of "Quartz," Bob Baer, our CNN Security and Intelligence Analyst. He's a former CIA operative. And Dafna Rand, Deputy Director of Studies at the Center for a New American Security. She's a former official at both the National Security Council and the State Department.

Bobby, what do you make of the arrests of these three individuals today?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, there seems to be quite an important breakthrough. We shouldn't be terribly surprised. We've seen this kind of behavior in Europe taking place, these kinds of groups gathering and heading for Syria. We saw this only last week with these three young women in Britain under the noses of British and European security agencies. So, it should not be a terrible surprise that something similar is happening here.

I suppose once more details of the case come out, we should be pleased that this particular group was prevented from getting there or plotting here in this country. But it is, obviously, very alarming when you hear the director of the FBI saying every single state in this country has things like this going on. That's quite a lot of -- that's quite a lot of plots taking place. And even with the vast resources that the FBI has, you worry that one of them will somehow break through the cracks.

BLITZER: And, Bob Baer, the fact that two of these individuals arrested today are from Uzbekistan, one is from Kazakhstan, what does that say to you?

ROBERT BAER, CNN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Wolf, first of all, we have to consider that Uzbekistan has been a center of Islamic fundamentalism for a couple decades now. The Fergana Valley. It's a very violent group that's shown up in Afghanistan, is now showing up in Syria. The central Asians are sort of a key part of the backbone of ISIS in Mosul. They're on the radios -- low-power radios so no one can understand them. Uzbek's a very difficult language. Few Americans speak it.

And let's not forget, concerning the Kazakh. There were Kazakh's involved in the Boston bombing, at least in some support role. They've been indicted. So, central Asians showing up in this country planning to do violence is worrisome. And, of course, as Bobby said, the 50 states, that's quite a statement from the FBI director. That surprised me. Which he's telling us we have a real Islamic fundamentalist Salafi problem here. And watch out, something could be coming our way.

BLITZER: Yes, in all 50 states, he says. Dafna, in this document that they released, the prosecutors, the law enforcement in New York, the investigation revealed, it says, the two of them devised this plan to travel to Turkey and on to Syria for waging jihad on behalf of ISIL, it says, or ISIS. But they also said that if they weren't able to get there, one of them offered to kill the president of the United States if ordered to do so by ISIL and another one expressed his intent to by a machine gun and shoot police officers and FBI agents if thwarted in his plans to join ISIL in Syria. That -- those are pretty alarming developments.

DAFNA RAND, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF STUDIES, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: Yes, this is a serious threat. The problem here is it's both a bottom--up and top-down element to the terrorist organization. There are individuals who are being radicalized without the organization from on top giving out orders. So, there's a magnetic appeal of what's going on in Syria and Iraq to some of these individuals. But, again, it's defused. It's decentralized. It might not, necessarily, be ordered from up high.

BLITZER: It's clear they first came under suspicion last summer, Bobby. These three guys, they've been watched, I guess, very, very closely by law enforcement, various agencies of the U.S. government, for months now, waiting to see what was going on. They only decided to go ahead with the arrests as at least one of them was planning on trying to get on a flight out of JFK for Turkey with the hope of eventually reaching Syria. But the question is, how many more -- many more of these people are there out there and the FBI director is saying there potentially is a lot?

GHOSH: Yes, that's the worrying part. We know that ISIS has essentially sent out a come one, come all invitation. They've asked people who are sympathetic to their cause around the world to come to Syria, come to Iraq to fight there. And they've also added that if you can't make it here, then attack in the countries where you are. Particularly, we saw this after Paris, a call to attack law enforcement, specifically.

So, the fact that these guys, one of them anyway, was threatening to attack the FBI directly in Washington, to take a machine gun and go and kill FBI officers, that fits in with that sort of clarion call from ISIS. And there's really no -- really no way to stop ISIS from communicating with people like this. Thanks to social media, thanks to the Internet, they're going to get through. They are going to find young people, in this country, who somehow make contact and who are attracted by what they see on television and online. So, the challenge is how many -- this is one very, very large haystack. Even if there are a lot of needles, finding them is going to be very hard.

BLITZER: All right, guys, hold on for a moment because we're also just getting this in. U.S. embassy officials in Amman, Jordan, they are now warning of a potential threat against high-end shopping malls in Amman, the capital of Jordan. The threat is judged to be credible, according to the State Department. But there's no word on a time line or what type of threat is involved. U.S. officials say extremist groups have repeatedly expressed interest in attacking what are called soft targets such as malls and restaurants. U.S. embassy employees in Jordan, their families, private U.S. citizens, they are now all being instructed to avoid these locations in the coming days.

Dafna, this is a very disturbing development, too, that American citizens are being told in Amman, Jordan, don't go to a shopping mall.

RAND: Yes, this is a development. And Jordan is, you know, surrounded -- it's strategically in the middle, in the center of all this. The U.S. government and analysts have been watching the stability and the threat levels in Jordan for many years now, since the beginning of the Syrian conflict. You know, and this is a target that ISIS has already articulated their interest in attacking targets in Jordan. So, this is -- this is alarming but not surprising.

BLITZER: And, as you know, Bob Baer, there are a lot of American tourist who go to Jordan. They want to go to Petra. They want to see what's going on over there. A warning, an advisory like this by the State Department, that will clearly put a damper on that.

BAER: Well, Wolf, let me put it this way. A senior Pentagon official, an old friend of mine, knows the Middle East, speaks Arabic. He says, I just won't go back there. It's too violent. You know, you can't -- you can't go to public places like malls. You can't go out to dinner. The place is just toxic. And that was a warning I have never heard in my -- in my career or ever. And he's watching the Middle East. He just -- he sort of despairs with the situation, the spread of violence there, which the Pentagon can't predict, nor can a country like Jordan. So, if a mall is attacked there, they are vulnerable. They are soft targets. There's only so much you can do to protect them. It wouldn't surprise me, as Dafna was saying.

BLITZER: Yes. All right, guys, stand by because we have more breaking news that's developing. The Pentagon, we're told, now they may be rethinking a major anti-ISIS offensive in Iraq. One factor in play, the ability of the Iraqi military to get its part of the plan accomplished.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now to the war against ISIS. Iraqi troops have gained what is now being described as critical ground in the fight for the city of Al Baghdadi. The city sits very close to an important Iraqi military base which also houses American military advisors, several hundred U.S. Marines. But, secondly, the Pentagon may now be reconsidering a major anti-ISIS military offensive because of serious questions emerging about Iraqi military readiness.

Let's go to our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, first of all, tell us what you know about this battle for Al Baghdadi.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Iraqi forces, interestingly, Wolf, have shown the world now some new video of what they say are Iraqi defense forces beginning the liberation of the town and that they have now liberated the outskirts and significant portions of this town which, really, ISIS had laid siege to for weeks. This was some of the most heavily contested area. There are people trying to flee, of course, as there always are in these circumstances. People trying to get out of the way of the fighting. But right now, the Iraqis say that they are beginning and have liberated portions of the town. As you say, very important because it's so close to a major base in western Iraq where U.S. forces are beginning the training programs and the assistance programs for Iraqi forces. So the beginning here.

But now the question, as you point out, Wolf, how does Secretary of Defense Ash Carter want to proceed? Does he want to recommend to the president and work with the Iraqi forces that perhaps Mosul in northern Iraq will be the first major city that the Iraqis will try and liberate? Or some people are saying in the U.S. military circles, it might be a better idea to stick in this area, western Iraq, less heavily populated, perhaps less of a challenge for Iraqi forces.

The bottom line, officials will tell you, wherever the Iraqis go first in the next major phase of the campaign, they have to score a win against ISIS. They have to succeed. So they're going to be looking for the best opportunity, the best location to do just that.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, good point. All right, Barbara, stand by.

We're also hearing much more about a large group of Christians kidnapped by ISIS forces in Syria. An activist close to the group now says ISIS is holding 150 people hostage. That's around twice as many as first feared. These are Assyrian Christians with ancient roots in both Syria and northern Iraq. That Assyrian empire once stretched from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf. Now their members are a minority, even within the Arab Christian community.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is joining us from London now.

Nic, what do we know about the demands that are being put forward by ISIS regarding these kidnapped Christians?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What the activists who are connected with these Assyrian Christians are telling us is that they're expecting a video message to come from ISIS, though they're expecting this to be a message to President Obama, to coalition forces. They're fearing the worst. These 150 people, there's women, children, elderly, even some priests, several thousand families are affected we're told. The ISIS offensive was against 35 different villages in that area. There were 600 of these Christians hiding out, sheltering in a church in one of the nearby towns at the moment. So their concern is the fate of that 150 and what happens to the others who have left their homes, who are hiding out in churches, places like that, will ISIS come back, will they - will they face a similar fate?

But the reality is, these activist networks are telling us, the spokesman for them, are saying, look, we saw what ISIS did to the Christians it captured in Libya, we've seen what ISIS did to the Christians it captured in Iraq and the outcome is not positive. They are very concerned right now, Wolf.

BLITZER: It looks like slowly but surely, unfortunately, tragically, Christian communities, which have lived in these areas forever, if you will, they're being driven out right now. And, you know, hopefully it will never happen, but it could happen that there won't be any Christians left in Syria or Iraq if this kind of assault continues.

ROBERTSON: Ah, the picture that we saw over the last decade in Iraq was a dismal one for Christians. Their communities came under attack from the sort of precursors of ISIS, now ISIS as well. In Syria itself, you know, President Bashar al Assad has relied on the business community, the 1.5 million or so Christians in Syria, relied on them heavily in times past. But now they feel isolated. And they're absolutely specifically targeted by not only ISIS, but some of the al Qaeda-affiliated really radical groups that are there. So they're absolutely under pressure. And it is a concern for the Christian community going forward. Their churches have been ransacked and burned, priests have been killed, nuns expelled from the country and religious sites that go back 2,000 years, Wolf.

BLITZER: It's a real, real tragedy that's unfolding. All right, Nic, thanks very much.

I spoke about all of this and a lot more earlier this morning with the U.S. Army's chief of staff, General Ray Odierno. We spoke about ISIS. You're going to hear what he has to say about this struggle that is underway, this U.S.-led war against ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier today I moderated a discussion at the first annual Future of War Conference here in Washington. Arizona State University and New America Foundation, that's a D.C.-based think tank, sponsored the event, along with CNN and Defense One. I spoke with U.S. Army Chief of Staff General Ray Odierno about the fight against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Will the Arab countries in the region join in this operation? I know that you want the Iraqi military and you think this new government of Haider al Abadi is better than Nouri al Maliki and that they're - they may be more secure, more -- a stronger government, right, than the previous government. But will other Arab countries in the region actually get involved on the ground, whether Jordan, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt?

GEN. RAY ODIERNO, U.S. ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF: So remember that when you're talking about ISIS and ISIL, it's really in two countries, it's in Iraq and Syria. And so it's not just defeating them in Iraq, it's defeating them in Syria. So I think where we've built the major part of the coalition to support is in Syria. And I think that's an important part of this - well, so a part of it is getting into Mosul, which I think should be done by Iraqi security forces, sovereign nation solving a problem inside their own country.

BLITZER: So there's no indication Jordan's going to go into Iraq (ph)?

ODIERNO: No, but I'm not sure we want that. I think - I think we would rather have them focus - start to -- as we begin to train the Syrian army, free army, I think that's where we want help from Jordan and other places that are willing to come in and help us because we're going to have to also remember that you have ISIS operating in Syria and we don't want them to have a safe haven. So if you defeat them in Mosul, they just run into Syria. And so, you know, that's an important part of this as we go forward as well.

BLITZER: I asked the question because, as you know, the president of Egypt, el-Sisi, he wants to create this, you know, pan-Arab ground force, if you will.

ODIERNO: Well, I think it's important. I think for the first time in the last couple of weeks we've seen Jordan not only - I mean the king has been very clear about this for a long time. I think you've now seen the people of Jordan, very clear that they want to do something against ISIS. Now we have Egypt that's come out and said, we've got to do something about ISIS. So we're starting to see the leaders in the Middle East starting to coalesce around, this is a problem that we have to deal this. I think that's important. And I think that will be very important as we move forward because it's -- we need them all to be involved. So I think it's -- we want to be able to build a coalition that wants to assist because that's, in my mind, without that it's always going to be difficult to rid ourselves of this threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're going to have much more of my interview with General Odierno coming up later this hour also in "The Situation Room" later today.

When we come back, more of the breaking news we're following, federal authorities in New York City, they've arrested three individuals, they're accusing them of wanting to leave the United States, fly to Turkey, then go into Syria and join up with ISIS. We'll tell you what's going on right after this.

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