Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Barrels That Were Nudged; Committee Frustrations; German Plane Crash; 150 Feared Dead In Plane Crash; Flight Timeline; State Department Checking If Americans Onboard; Israel Accused Of Spying; Interview With RepS. Adam Schiff and Devin Nunes of California; Cybersecurity Bill. Aired 1-1:30p

Aired March 24, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:27] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in Barcelona, 6:00 p.m. at Dusseldorf and 7:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And let's begin with the breaking news. We're getting new details about the crash of a Germanwings passenger plane in southeastern France. An official in the area where the plane went down says it was obliterated and describes a horrific crash scene. And according to Reuters, a French official says a black box from the plane has been recovered. The airline says there were 150 people onboard the plane, 144 passengers and six crew members.

The French president, Francois Hollande, says it's unlikely anyone survived. There are 350 firefighters, more than 300 police taking part in the operation of the crash zone right now. But the terrain and the weather are making it extremely difficult.

A mountain guide says helicopters are the only way to get there, at least right now. A French aviation official says it was air traffic control, yes, air traffic control, not the plane, that initiated the distress call after controllers lost radio contact.

According to an online flight tracker, the plane dropped from 38,000 feet to 24,000 feet in just six minutes. But the CEO of the airline says the plane went into a steep descent for about eight minutes. The airline says this is a sad, tragic day for Germanwings, and Lufthansa, the parent company.

Let's get the latest on the crash from our Correspondent -- our Senior International Correspondent Jim Bittermann who's joining us right now. Jim, you have new details about the crash site. What can you tell us?

JIM BITTERMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, for one thing, the interior minister has now confirmed that information about the black box. One of the two black boxes has been recovered. And it's not -- it's not clear what's happened to the other one.

But when you see the still photos that we've been seeing in the last hour or so of this crash site, you can understand why it might take them some time to find it. Basically, this is a crash site where debris is scattered over about a five-acre area. And the area is full of ravines and very steep crevasses. Helicopters are the only way in there directly but then the helicopters can't land. They have to lower the investigators and rescuers and whatnot by rope. So, it's a very difficult area.

The closest road comes to a halt about a 45-minute hike from this scene. And for the still photos we've seen, the debris is down to bits and pieces. One witness described one -- the largest debris piece as being no bigger than the size of a small car. And from one of the photos we can see a section of maybe three or four passenger windows, sections of the fuselage but no bigger than that. So, it looks as if the plane hit the peak and then disintegrated in the fall down the various ravines in the area. So, it's a horrendous scene.

And the remains of the victims of course scattered over hundreds of yards. They're going to have to be very carefully searching for those victims over what probably will be the next few days. It will take some time for all this to take place.

And as you mentioned, the weather is getting worse down there. There's a front moving through. They're expecting snow there tonight and snow tomorrow. So, it could be a really complicated mission, indeed, for the people that are involved in the investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And, very quickly, Jim, when you said they found one of the black boxes, there are usually two on board, as we know, a cockpit voice recorder, a flight data recorder. Do you know which one they found?

BITTERMAN: No, no word of which one they found. They're probably looking for the other one at the -- even at this hour. It's starting to get dark down there so they've probably got a very limited window. But I'm sure that they'll try to get both recovered as soon as possible.

BLITZER: I'm sure they are, that's a high priority right now. Thanks very much for that. Jim Bittermann, we'll get back to you.

Just a little while ago, we learned that President Obama has been briefed about the crash of the German airliner. The White House issued this statement. I'll read it to you. U.S. officials have been in touch with French, German and Spanish authorities and have offered assistance. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and loves ones. We refer you to French authorities for an update on the investigation. There is no indication of a nexus to terrorism, at this time. That statement from the White House.

[13:05:03] The Germanwings plane was in the air for about an hour or so before it lost contact with controllers and crashed. Now, it's up to the investigators to try to figure out what went wrong.

Let's bring in our Aviation Analyst Mary Schiavo. She's a former inspector general at the Department of Transportation here in Washington. And Les Abend is joining us, our CNN Aviation Analyst. He's a triple seven captain.

Mary, the air traffic controllers, they were the ones who sent out that distress signal, not from the cockpit, not from the plane. What does that suggest?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: To me, I think that's a really important clue because the plane was descending and you just don't descend. As a pilot, you have to request the descent. You have to request to change altitudes. And since they -- we know they didn't do that, because air traffic control did not know and had not communicated with them. If they were talking to air traffic control, they could have told them about any problem they had on board.

So, whatever caused this, caused the pilots to be unable to communicate or have no time to communicate. I suspect that, as time goes on, we'll find they were -- they were not able to communicate for one of many reasons. It could be equipment. It could be that they were incapacitated, et cetera. But I think they would have tried to communicate that they were descending in a mountainous region.

BLITZER: Unless -- the online flight tracker says the plane dropped, and we've been reporting this, from 38,000 to 24,000 feet in six minutes. The airline CEO says there was this steep descent that lasted about eight minutes. Explain what possibly could have happened as this plane begins this is descent in only a few minutes.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, you know, Wolf, I'd like to stay away from the terminology, drop, if possible, because it seemed to me -- I believe it was a six-minute period and correct me if I'm wrong. But, you know, that's about a 2,500 feet a minute rate of descent. And that's not a terrible lot. We do that just before we start to rival out of cruise altitude, if we have a crossing restriction.

So, to me, it sounds like that's a controlled decent situation. But it was definitely an expedited situation, I think, that they realized they had some sort of problem. You know, to Mary's point, mechanical problem, something that consumed them enough that they were taken away from the aspect of communication. Why that happened, I don't know. That is a little disturbing to me from the standpoint of, did their communication equipment break down for the reason that they were starting the descent? In other words, was there a possible fire situation in their electronics bay? These are things to consider.

But, once again, this is all speculation, at this point in time.

BLITZER: But, Les, they -- under normal circumstances, the pilot or the co-pilot would ask for permission to start a descent like that.

ABEND: Absolutely. But if it was a -- if it was a dire situation, whatever they had enunciated on their -- on their -- on their panels, they may not have had time to get it out or it was attempted and they weren't able to communicate because of the situation itself. Absolutely that is a great radar environment there. They have all the sophistication that we have here in the states. I've flown out of Barcelona. You're always in radar contact for the most part. And there should have been some ability to communicate with somebody on the ground.

BLITZER: All right. Les Abend, Mary Schiavo, I want you guys to stand by. We have much more coming up on the breaking news. We'll take a quick break. When we come back, it's very mountainous, this area. It's snow covered. It's extremely dangerous. That's what emergency crews now face as they make their way to the crash site.

And later, Israel is accused of spying on those U.S.-Iranian nuclear talks. We're going to tell you what the Israeli response is, the allegations. We'll have a joint interview with the chairman of the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:12:15]

BLITZER: All right, let's get back to the breaking news. A passenger plane carrying 150 people on board has crashed in southern France. Germanwings Airbus Flight 9525 was traveling from Barcelona, Spain to Dusseldorf, Germany, when it went down over the French Alps.

We're just getting a statement in from the State Department here in Washington. The spokesperson, Jen Psaki, this is the statement. "We are saddened by the news that Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed in southern France on its way to Barcelona, Spain from Barcelona, Spain to Dusseldorf, Germany. We extend our deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of the 150 people onboard. We are reviewing whether any U.S. citizens were aboard the flight. The United States stands ready to offer assistance and support to the governments of France, Germany and Spain as they investigate this tragedy." That statement from the State Department here in Washington.

Let's turn to CNN's Tom Foreman. He's over at the magic wall. He's got more on what's going on. The terrain over there is, what, 6,000 feet elevation in that part of France. It's pretty rough.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's very rough. If you take a look at it -- if we fly into the terrain here and just take a look at it. We're going to bring up some of the mountains of the French Alps here. And you can see as this changes angles, yes, these are serious mountains out here. They're not as tall, at their tallest peaks, as the Colorado Rockies but they're still way up there. And this plane went down in an area that would be about a mile high in the air, a little bit higher than that.

And if you look at the flight track of this, if this is true -- if this is -- and I say that because there could be artifacts in the way this is recorded that do not indicate exactly what happened to the plane. But during this descent, it was up here at about 38,000 feet and then it started dropping. The blue line is the plane's altitude. The red line is the speed. The speed was relatively constant, somewhere around 500 miles an hour. It dropped down to about 400 miles an hour over here. But as this plane came down, right about here, it crossed the threshold of the highest of the Alps. And then, down here, it's deep in the area of where it would be among the Alps. A lot of strange things happened in this, Wolf. Particularly, right here, this descent. The fact that it looks like a controlled descent. We've talked to a pilot of one of these planes. We've talked to NTSB investigators and a lot of aviation analysts who all saying this is part of the mystery. The fact that this looks so controlled here. That would suggest either they were doing it on purpose and somehow the end of it did not play out as planned. They were planning to deal with the problem as they got lower, restart engines or whatever might be wrong with the plane. And somehow they just couldn't get it done or that something happened up here that was catastrophic enough that they got the plane pointed down.

But after that, there was either no control of it or they were simply situationally unaware of what was happening to them.

[13:15:00] And that's how they wound up hitting the mountain. So it's very complicated, Wolf.

BLITZER: There's some suggestion, Tom, that maybe they were on autopilot, the pilot, the co-pilot didn't really have control for whatever reason, so it had that relatively smooth descent just before it crashed. Which raises the question, did the pilot, the co-pilot, the passengers on board, did they know this plane was heading towards a crash?

FOREMAN: They would not necessarily know. And that's really interesting, Wolf, because if you think about this, this is, by the way, just a sense of what it would look like inside this - this plane. I don't have my interior shot anymore. But if you - if you look at the outside of this plane, you are on planes many times that are descending at the rate that this plane was descending, when you're landing or flying anyplace and you do not notice it. This was not dramatic if you were onboard this plane.

So there's no reason why anybody on board the plane would necessarily say, we have a problem, unless there was something obvious going on. The descent might have looked normal. Obviously, by the time you get among the mountains, people may think something. But then, at 400 miles an hour, it may be too late for anyone to do anything.

BLITZER: Yes, it's a huge, huge mystery right now and a tragic story.

All right, Tom Foreman, thanks very much. We're going to have a lot more on the breaking news coverage of this plane crash in France. Stand by for that.

But there's other news we're following, including allegations that Israel was spying on those U.S.-led nuclear negotiations with Iran. We're going to get reaction from the chairman and the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. A rare joint interview, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're going to have a lot more on the breaking news coverage of that plane crash in France. That's coming up in a few moments. But first, there are strong denials coming from the government of

Israel now over a report in "The Wall Street Journal" accusing Israel of spying on those nuclear negotiations the U.S., other members of the U.N. Security Council in Germany have been having with Iran and disclosing some of the secrets, "The Wall Street Journal" says, to key members of Congress in an effort to try to derail any emerging agreement. "The Wall Street Journal" says Israel collected information on those talks by eavesdropping, using surveillance of Iranian leaders, talking to European officials as well.

[13:20:28] Israel denies allegations it was spying on the United States. A quote from the Israeli government, "these allegations are utterly false. The state of Israel does not conduct espionage against the United States or Israel's other allies. The false allegations," the Israeli statement continues, "are clearly intended to undermine the strong ties between the United States and Israel and the security and intelligence relationship we share."

Israel, clearly, is against the apparently emerging nuclear deal with Iran. The prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, made Israel's case against the deal during his controversial address before a joint meeting of the U.S. Congress earlier in the month.

Let's talk about all this and a whole lot more with two special guests. Joining us right now from Capitol Hill, the chairman and the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Devin Nunes, he's from California, he's the chairman, and the ranking Democrat, Adam Schiff.

Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us. And I know this is a rare joint interview with the two of you. You're cooperating on cyber warfare. We're going to get to that in a few moments.

But, Mr. Chairman, what do you make of this "Wall Street Journal" report? And, specifically, did Israeli officials brief you on sensitive, classified, shall we say, information about what was going on, information that you weren't receiving from the Obama administration?

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I saw the report last night and I was actually shocked by it. I didn't - I had not been briefed. The committee has not been briefed. And even this morning, the speaker of the House, John Boehner, said that he had not been briefed. So if they were sharing information, it wasn't on our side of the aisle that I'm aware of.

BLITZER: You're talking about the Israelis had not briefed you on any of these information they supposedly were collecting through their intelligence, is that what you're saying, Mr. Chairman?

NUNES: That's correct. That's correct. Yes, we have not been briefed by the Israelis on anything that's in "The Wall Street Journal" article at all.

BLITZER: And, Congressman Schiff, what about you? REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:

Well, without commenting on the allegations, I can say certainly I've had a number of meetings with Israeli officials over the months that these negotiations have been going on and in none of those cases have the Israelis discussed with me anything that I would consider classified or even all that sensitive. So certainly not in my presence and beyond that I really couldn't say.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied, Mr. Chairman, with the briefings you've been receiving from the Obama administration on the way these negotiations have been going?

NUNES: Well, I think they have done a good job of briefing members of Congress, at least on the intelligence committee. We've been kept informed. Now, look, I don't agree with the administration's take on this and where the negotiations are. I do agree that there's - that the negotiations are being conducted in good faith. But I just don't think, at the end of the day, the Iranians are going to really make a deal that the American people want to be part of.

BLITZER: Congressman Schiff, I believe you, and I assume the chairman, and correct me if I'm wrong, were among the 367 members of the House bipartisan letter, Democrats and Republicans, that you sent to President Obama underling concerns about what's going on. Congressman Schiff, what's your biggest concern?

SCHIFF: Well, probably the factor I'm going to look at most closely is, what's the duration of the agreement? What is the number of centrifuges and the generation of centrifuges that's allowed? Ten years seems to me a very short window. So I'm hoping that there's something beyond that. But that really is a key concern of mine. Ten years goes by in the blink of an eye. So the staying power of any kind of a negotiated deal is going to be very important. But I'm going to keep my powder dry and I think all members would be wise to see what comes out of this, if there is an agreement. There will be plenty of time for us to weigh in thereafter.

BLITZER: Did you sign that letter, Mr. Chairman?

NUNES: Yes, I did.

BLITZER: And your biggest concern is?

NUNES: Well, look, I just don't believe, when you start negotiating -- the point of this all has been, if the Iranians want to have a nuclear power, like they say that they want to have, look, we're -- there's plenty of countries and plenty of agreements that could be made to make sure that they could have atomic energy. But the fact of the matter is, one centrifuge is too many from my perspective. And so I just don't see the Iranians making a deal with us that's going to actually limit their ability to get a nuclear weapon. And, in fact, -- you know, look, as good as our intelligence community is, a lot of times we don't even know what the Iranians are up to. And so, you know, we were shocked, like many were, at the disclosures that have come forward about the size and scope of the Iranians' nuclear program, even in the most recent years. [13:25:10] BLITZER: I want to move - yes.

NUNES: So I'm - I'm very concerned.

BLITZER: I want to move on and talk about cyber security. But very quickly, Congressman Schiff, that year-long secret negotiations that the U.S. was having with Iranian officials, I believe in Oman, to try to set the stage for these full-scale negotiations, was your committee briefed on those discussions that were going on?

SCHIFF: Well, we were briefed, although I don't know that I can say we were briefed contemporaneous with some of those early negotiations and that certainly was an issue that came up in the committee in terms of when we were brought up to speed and what the circumstances there were. But I feel also, as the chairman mentioned, that we have been kept up to speed with frequent briefings, both in the committee, as well as at the White House, on how the negotiations are proceeding. So I don't feel like I've been left in the dark as all.

BLITZER: Let's talk about cyber security. And it's a rare moment that we're seeing a Republican and a Democrat - you guys are working together right now. Mr. Chairman, tell us the gist of what you have in mind to try to fight this enormous threat that the U.S. and so many other countries clearly are facing right now.

NUNES: Well, the committee has actually been working on this for five years. Under our current - or under the previous leadership, we worked on this. Both Adam and I were on the committee. We had a good legislation last year. The legislation I think this year is even better. It's -- we've worked with our Senate colleagues also, both Republicans and Democrats. We're almost on the same page in terms of allowing American companies and the American people to share openly with the United States government threats that they're seeing.

Because of this, we need this because of the threats that are getting bigger and bigger as we - as every day goes by. Specifically, just in recent months, we've had two American health care companies that have been compromised.

BLITZER: And is there a privacy concern, Congressman Schiff? Some privacy advocates, they're always nervous when you start talking about this kind of stuff. What's your answer?

SCHIFF: Well, there are legitimate privacy concerns. But I think we have addressed most of those -- I'm sorry I'm losing my voice here a bit. The moment we are introducing --

BLITZER: Hold on a second, congressman.

SCHIFF: Yes.

BLITZER: Congressman, hold on a second. Clear your throat, and then you can -- you'll feel a little better once you clear your throat.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

BLITZER: I'll ask - I'll ask a question to Congressman Nunes and then you can respond as well.

Mr. Chairman, the House Homeland Security is also pushing forward similar cyber security bills. Which is it? Is it your committee, Chairman Mike McCaul's Homeland Security Committee? What's the difference between these respective pieces of legislation?

NUNES: Well, I see them as a parallel track. Clearly what our concern is, is to make sure that the intelligence community, the interface that we have with the American public, that we are able to keep sources and methods confidential and that we make sure that the Department of Defense and the NSA are not getting private information. That's been one of the key hang-ups from last year's bill. That's a concern of ours.

When we start to talk about how - what -what does the portal look like with the American people? Like, where are they going to put their information into the government? Where are they going to share it at? That actually comes under the jurisdiction or could come under the jurisdiction of the Homeland Security Committee. So I see these as parallel tracks. We're working closely with Chairman McCaul. Just as I said, we're also working closely with the Senate Intelligence Committee because, at the end of the day, we want to get an agreement and get this to the president's desk to be signed so that we can protect the cyber networks for the American people.

BLITZER: All right, Congressman Schiff, if your voice is still holding up, I'll give you the final word. Go ahead.

SCHIFF: Great. Thanks. Well, Wolf, I think we've made a lot of progress since last year in addressing the concerns that the privacy community raised. Our bill ensures that the information first has to go through a civilian portal, like the Department of Homeland Security, that all personal information has to be stripped out before it's shared with the government, that it can only be limited use of this information, it can't be used for broad law enforcement purposes. And, finally, that there aren't countermeasures permitted to private companies. Those were four key privacy concerns with the bill last year, which I didn't support. I think we've all - addressed all four of these. So I'm very optimistic about the prospects for passage.

BLITZER: All right, Adam Schiff, Devin Nunes, good to see some bipartisan cooperation from the House Select Committee on Intelligence. We'll stay in close touch with both of you. Appreciate it very much. Thank you.

NUNES: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, we're getting some pictures - the first pictures, I should say, of the crash site now coming in to CNN. We're following the breaking news out of southern France. A plane goes down with 150 people on board. Much more on the breaking news when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)