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Captain, Crew Member Arrested for Role in Sea Disaster; U.S. Deploys Warships Responding to Possible Threat from Iran as Nuclear Negotiations Resume; Last Big Holocaust Trial Opens in Germany; Loretta Lynch Confirmation Closer to a Vote; Poll Numbers Up for Obama, Could Help Hillary Clinton. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 21, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:20] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Washington.

The captain and a crew member of a ship full of migrants that capsized in the Mediterranean Sea have been arrested for their role in the disaster. Hundreds of people are believed dead. Investigators now say the ship may have collided with a merchant ship that had come to help, causing the boat to capsize. And we're also getting new video of a rescue of more than 400 migrants by the Italian navy. They were aboard a fishing vessel headed for the Italian coast.

Karl Penhaul is joining us live from Catania in Italy right now.

What's the latest, Karl, on the recovery, and the investigation?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The more you look at all this, Wolf, you just see that this is a migrant crisis escalating with every hour that passes. In terms of the weekend shipwreck, as you rightly point out, a Syrian and Tunisian being accused of captaining that boat and being involved with the smuggling ring. They are under investigation by the Italian prosecutor. Also what the Italian prosecutor is looking to do is interview the survivors who were plucked from that ship and to find out a little bit more about exactly how many migrants were on board there, who possibly was behind organizing the people-smuggling racket. And so that hopefully could help Italian authorities to crack down on this in the future.

But if you look at the panorama right now, it is horrendous. Two Italian navy ships currently making their way to Sicily with more than 440 migrants on board, including 100 women and more than 50 children. Those have been plucked from six different migrant boats that were adrift in the Mediterranean off the coast of Libya.

And then this morning as well, another fishing boat was reaching almost the Italian mainland. That was rescued just off the southeast coast there and more than 300 migrants aboard there. This migrant crisis really escalating -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I know you had a chance, Karl, to speak with some of the migrants who made it to where you are in Catania in Italy. What did they say?

PENHAUL: Again, a horrendous picture. The ones that I talked to, they're the lucky ones. These are the survivors who have been washed up on the shores of this promised land, which is Europe. Any life here is better than the life they've been leading at home. I was talking, for example, to one Syrian man who came from the city of Homs in Syria. He's been here now 10 days. He said he had to leave Syria, otherwise he would have been engaged in one or other of the armed militias. It was join ISIS, join one of the rebel groups, or die. He said, on the way, he has faced horrendous difficulties. The last one just before he set sail on that boat to come to Italy, he said he had already paid migrant traffickers about $1800. And then another gang, an armed militia masked in uniforms with assault rifles, came on board and robbed all the migrants on board, pulling off gold earrings, gold watches, anything, as searching them one by one to take money.

Another young man said that as he made his way through Libya, he saw 20 people on the bus where he was, pulled off and beheaded by ISIS fighters as well, Wolf. Horrendous stories from the survivors.

[13:34:49] BLITZER: We know the ISIS, those ISIS, so-called fighters, they're going after Christians, whether Ethiopian, Egyptian Christians, other Christians, beheading them in Libya as well.

Karl Penhaul, thanks for that report.

Another story happening today, Mohamed Morsey went from prison to become Egypt's first democratically elected president. Now he's going back to prison for at least 20 years. Morsey's latest troubles stem from the 2012 protests outside his presidential palace. He was convicted on charges of inciting violence and torturing protesters. The verdict today is subject to appeal. By the way, I interviewed Morsey in Cairo in 2013. That was about six months after he became president of Egypt. At the time, he was very upbeat, very confident about Egypt's future, his own future. But he was deposed by a military coup seven months after that interview I had with him in Cairo. Morsey claims he's still Egypt's leader. He refuses to recognize the court proceedings against him as legal.

Just ahead, the U.S. deploys warships in response to a possible threat from Iran, all this as nuclear negotiations are resuming. The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Adam Schiff, is standing by live. We'll talk about that and much more.

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BLITZER: Very tense and complicated relationship between the United States and Iran is even more tense, more complicated today. The U.S. has stationed warships off the coast of Yemen. The ships, along with allied vessels, are there to keep Iran from supplying weapons to the Shiite Houthi rebels fighting in Yemen. All this is unfolding as talks on a nuclear deal with Iran are resuming in Vienna.

Joining us now to help sort through all of this is Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, of California, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Thanks very much for coming in.

You got to be concerned, even though there's no great desire, there's no desire at all for a real confrontation between the U.S. and Iran off the coast of Yemen, it's possible.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D), CALIFORNIA: It's certainly possible and who knows what kind of hotheads you might have on some of the Iranian ships and whether they may choose this as an opportunity to strike a blow at the Great Satan. Hard to tell. We're here to have the back of our gulf and other allies in the region as well as to try to have a show of force. There are U.N. resolutions that prohibit Iran from arming the Houthies, nonetheless they have been.

[13:40:38] BLITZER: You know that for sure? Because the Iranians deny.

SCHIFF: Yes.

BLITZER: They say they're only sending in humanitarian aid to the Houthies and to others in Yemen. They deny they're providing weapons.

SCHIFF: I don't believe it. And I think there's credible evidence that they have been providing weapons. That's not the same as to say they've been controlling the Houthies all along. And you can easily I think overstate the Iranian role in Yemen. But it certainly is true that they've been providing military advice and military aid.

BLITZER: The commander of the Iranian navy has been saying that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia are to blame. He's been vociferous in the condemnation of the United States, even while they want to deal with the U.S. in Vienna on these nuclear negotiations. I call it compartmentalization. Is this -- there's something weird here, though, right?

SCHIFF: There are lots of different compartments because you're right. We have a compartment where you have the nuclear negotiations, the compartment of conflict over Yemen, the compartment of conflict in Syria, and we have another compartment where we have de-confliction in Iraq. It's enormously complex. But that's just life in the region.

BLITZER: Two Senators, Marco Rubio, of Florida, and Mark Kirk, of Illinois, they're demanding as part of any nuclear deal -- there's no nuclear deal yet, we'll see if there will be by the end of June -- as part of any nuclear deal the Iranians have to release that "Washington Post" reporter, Jason Rezaian, and other Americans who are held right now in Iran. That's got to be a quid pro quo. Do you buy that?

SCHIFF: I don't think that's the approach the administration is taking but they are raising the issue of these American hostages I think at every opportunity when they're interacting with the Iranians. So it is very much a priority for the administration. At the same time, I'm not sure that they want these to be a bargaining chip for Tehran to drive a tougher nuclear negotiation and hold these as hostages to the nuclear talks. So it's a difficult situation, but certainly we're trying to do everything we can to get them freed. BLITZER: As I've been saying, they stand to gain billions and

billions of dollars immediately with frozen assets that are going to -- about to be lifted. Why not say to them, you know what, you're going to get a lot of money, release these Americans, that's the least you can do?

SCHIFF: I think the administration is certainly raising this, urging them to do so.

BLITZER: But they say they're not linking it to the nuclear negotiations, just as they say they're not demanding Iran accept Israel's right to exist as part of the nuclear negotiations. They say that the nuclear negotiations are simply focused on the nuclear negotiations. Other political issues are not part of the deal.

SCHIFF: I think that's true. And I think they're trying to maintain the solidity of the nuclear negotiations and not have it disrupted by bringing in other issues in the region, as vital as they are. And also while they want to continue raising these hostage issues, they don't want it to be a chip the Iranians can play. And I think the harder we press them in some respects, the harder the pushback and more the Iranians think this is really valuable, these hostages are valuable, we should keep them because we can exact more from the Americans.

BLITZER: You've heard the argument, the criticism of the Obama administration, is that they seem to want to deal more than the Iranians want to deal. Do you accept that?

SCHIFF: I don't accept that. I do understand that criticism and I understands the concern that some have that the administration trying too hard or need this too much as a legacy. The reality is the Iranians are deeply hurt economically. I think their whole regime is about perpetuation of the regime. And to the degree the economy becomes a liability and threatens them, it drives them to the table. That's why they're at the table. But I don't think it's true that we want it or need it more than they do.

BLITZER: Congressman Schiff, thanks for coming in.

SCHIFF: Thanks Wolf.

[13:44:13] BLITZER: Adam Schiff on the House Permanent Subcommittee of Intelligence.

Still to come, a 93-year-old former S.S. guard standing trial right now, accused of being an accomplice of mass murder at the Auschwitz death camp. What he has to say about his role, that's coming up.

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BLITZER: What may be one of the last big Holocaust trials opened today in Germany. Oskar Groening, called the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz, entered the courtroom using a walker. At 93, Groening is one of the few suspected Nazi war criminals still living. The former member of Hitler's S.S. told German judges he shares in the moral guilt of the mass killings but is a bookkeeper and never killed anyone. Groening's job was to collect the belongings of the prisoners, their valuables and money.

86-year-old Hedy Bohm now lives in New York City. She was a teenager when she entered Auschwitz. She's a plaintiff in this case. While she survived, her parents did not.

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HEDY BOHM, AUSCHWITZ SURVIVOR: Believe it or not, by this time, it means very little personally. I don't feel vengeance. I don't want to see him go to jail. It's too late for it. He's too old. And I do believe that the important part is for the law to be established and for the change to be made for the future generations.

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BLITZER: Let's bring in our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, he's charged with accessory to 300,000 murders at Auschwitz as the camp's bookkeeper. Is there a precedent for convicting him in a war crimes trial of this nature?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is an interesting story because the nature of the legal proceedings against those who were involved in the Holocaust has changed since World War II. In the original prosecutions and the Nuremburg trials and elsewhere, the theory was the only people who could be prosecuted are those who actually gave the orders or carried them out. In later years, as the number of prosecutions has declined, there have been a small handful of cases like this one where it's based on a more general sense of responsibility. A bookkeeper can be prosecuted, as in this case, for participating in the activities of a concentration camp even if he never gave any orders or killed anyone personally. That's what this case is about.

[13:50:17] BLITZER: Why did they decide to do it now, 70 years after the war?

TOOBIN: Well, Mr. Groening basically called attention to himself. He wrote articles. He spoke out. He acknowledged his involvement in many ways. He was trying to prove to doubters of the Holocaust that it really did take place. But the magnitude of what he disclosed was so awful that the German authorities decided he is essentially admitting to a crime, and there were still victims' groups pressing for this. They were saying, listen, this has to be prosecuted because the crime was simply so awful.

BLITZER: It's going to generate sympathy. 93 years old, walks in with a cane. Obvious -- with a walker. He's obviously pretty old, pretty frail. I guess that's the downside of having a full-blown trial of this nature right now.

TOOBIN: It is, although as the woman who was on the piece suggested, it's not really about any sort of punishment that's going to be meted out to Mr. Groening. It's about establishing under international law that it's not a defense that you were simply a bookkeeper, that if you participate, if you help make possible the deaths of so many people, you are criminally responsible, as well. That precedent I think is important regardless of what happens to Mr. Groening himself.

BLITZER: It may be an excellent educational opportunity for a lot of people to remember what happened 70 years ago.

TOOBIN: That's it.

BLITZER: All right, Jeffrey, thanks very, very much.

Just ahead, new poll numbers on the Obama presidency. We'll tell you whether his approval rating is heading in a positive or negative direction. Gloria Borger standing by.

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[13:55:46] BLITZER: Breaking news out of Washington. The administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration will soon step down. That, according to U.S. officials familiar with the situation. Michelle Lenart rose through the ranks to become the first female in charge of a DEA field office. She became head of the agency during the Bush administration. But she recently came under fire for her testimony at a congressional hearing. The hearing was about DEA agents having sex parties with prostitutes paid for by drug cartels.

After 165 days and counting, the U.S. Senate is closer than ever to a vote on the nomination of Loretta Lynch as attorney general of the United States. Lynch's nomination got tangled up with an anti- abortion provision in a separate bill to combat human trafficking. As a result, Lynch has been waiting longer than any other attorney general nominee to be confirmed.

Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, is joining us.

The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, says a confirmation vote is expected in the next day or two. This is a significant development now.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a very significant development. As you say, she's waited as long as any nominee to be attorney general. It's about five months, Wolf. Kind of unheard of. She would be, if confirmed, the first African-American woman attorney general. She's replacing Eric Holder who, by the way, Wolf, Republicans did not like. They had nothing but disdain for Holder. Here they are holding up Lynch, whom some Republicans will vote for. I mean, you can't count these votes until you count these votes, but there are some estimates that she does actually have 51 votes at this point, which means a handful of Republicans and would get confirmed.

BLITZER: Looks like she'll get confirmed. We'll see what happens.

Let's talk about the new CNN/ORC poll numbers. President Obama's approval rating has gone up. 48 percent approve, 47 percent disapprove. The first time since 2013 more Americans have had a slightly positive impression of his performance than negative impression. That's significant.

BORGER: It is significant for him. Not because the numbers have shifted so dramatically. They haven't. If it's just a shift in perception, Wolf, when you're not under water anymore. What's going on are a couple of things. First of all, people are generally are feeling more optimistic about the economy. When they're feeling more optimistic about the economy, they feel better toward the president of the United States. Also, the president had lost a lot of support on his liberal base. He seems to be -- seems to be gaining that back. And that is reflected in the approval/disapproval numbers.

BLITZER: We asked a separate question, how are economic conditions in the United States. Today, 52 percent said they were good. 48 percent said they were poor. More Americans think they're good than poor.

BORGER: Right. Well, and that's -- that's very good news for the president. As I was saying, that will make the president more popular. Also, 42 percent say they're going to be better off financially than a year from now. That's people feeling more optimistic about their future. I think that can only be good news for the president.

BLITZER: It can only be good news potentially for Hillary Clinton, as well, if she's the Democratic presidential nominee.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: And if that right-track/wrong-track number, questions we ask, more Americans think the country is moving in the right direction economically than in the wrong direction. She could benefit from that.

BORGER: She will. 60 percent of the people say the economy will be in good shape a year from now. Hillary Clinton will be run willing for president. Republicans, as you know, are describing Hillary Clinton as the third term of an Obama presidency. Therefore, if people are feeling better about themselves or economic conditions, they vote their pocketbooks. They're going to look more kindly toward Hillary Clinton.

The big question, Wolf, that has to be answered in this election debate is the question about the haves and the have-nots. And we ask that also in our poll. 61 percent of the nation says that the economy is divided between the haves and have-nots, and that needs to be discussed in a presidential race, and it will be.

[13:49:50] BLITZER: We'll have more on the story coming up in "The Situation Room" at 5:00 p.m. eastern.

Thanks very much for watching.

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.