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White House Says Yemen Job Not Done; Nine U.S. Warships Poised Off Yemen's Coast; Iranian Convoy Moves Closer To Yemen; Iran Boast About Role Its In Fighting ISIS; Iran's Profile Raised; Prisoner Pleads for Help. Aired 1:1-30p ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:58:49] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1 P.M. here in Washington, 7 P.M. in Paris, 8 P.M. in Riyadh, 3 A.M. Thursday in Sydney, Australia, or wherever you're watching from around the world. Thanks very much for joining us.

We start with the new mission in Yemen. Saudi Arabia says it has ended the Arab coalition air campaign against the Iranian backed Houthi rebels, now begins the new phase called renewal of hope.

Meanwhile, the rebel leader is calling for a renewal of peace talks with the United Nations, a path that White House seems to agree with.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: If a job is not done, there is a remaining instability in the region in Yemen. There's a lot of work that needs to be done and we're going to be doubling down and continuing to work on that with our partners around the world. This is not a war that can be fought on the battlefield. This is one that we need the parties to come together. The U.N. has been very persistent in their process and we're continuing to support that.

BLITZER: Our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto is here with me. Jim, diplomacy would be great, a peaceful resolution that was going on in Yemen. But a lot of experts say that's a lot of wishful thinking.

JIM SCIUTTO CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly looks like it now and is the Saudi air campaign really over? They were dropping some bombs today as well.

[12:59:58] And that's what Pentagon officials have been telling me yesterday that this is the end of the first phase of that campaign. But they don't view it as a ceasefire that Saudi Arabia would continue to keep its military options open in Yemen that they had just felt that they reach their goals with the big military pieces there, ballistic missiles, et cetera, that they saw as a threat to Saudi territory and neighbors.

But, you know, clearly, the Saudi-led campaign is not completely over. They're going to keep those options open. And as you do, is that an environment for a political solution that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia are talking about? You know, we'll have to see. But then, of course, you have the international piece, right, with the Iranian support for the Houthis, the Saudis for the government with the U.S. I mean, this is a difficult environment to imagine a political solution (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: And environment is even more difficult. A lot of warships off the coast of Yemen right now, Saudi warships, Egyptian warships, UAE warships and nine U.S. military vessels including an aircraft carrier battle group, "The USS Teddy Roosevelt," with a bunch of Iranian cargo ships and other ships heading that way.

SCIUTTO: And we learned today that in that Iranian convoy of nine ships, that there are Iranian warships as well. They're not just cargo ships. Of course, the U.S. is concerned about what the cargo is. Does it carry weapons, et cetera? You know, the public message on this is different from the private message. Publicly, the White House, the State Department and others are saying we're there to protect navigation, shipping lanes, et cetera.

But military officials, telling me privately, that watching that Iran -- that Iranian convoy is certainly part of this. That's why you've got F-18 Hornets flying recon missions off "The Teddy Roosevelt," watching. And by watching, sending a message to Iran that they are watching. We're keeping an eye on you. Are you sending arms in? You're not going to see "The Teddy Roosevelt" pull in front of an Iranian warship and put some U.S. Sailors on board that ship. That would be an extraordinary step. But the hope is that just sending this very physical message of that, you know, U.S. aircraft carrier is enough to cause the Iranians to pull back.

BLITZER: And there seems to be a bit, and correct me if I'm wrong, of confusion because the president is a little more blunt in explaining what that aircraft carrier is doing there as opposed to his spokesman.

SCIUTTO: It's interesting. You know, for the last 24, 48 hours, you heard from the spokesman that phrase, protecting shipping lanes. This is all about commerce and so on. When I was hearing from military officials, as you have been, that they're also clearly watching this Iranian convoy. The president took it a step further yesterday in his conversation with MSNBC saying that, listen, this is, in part, about sending a message to Iran, that's part of the policy there, which is happening in physical terms with U.S. military assets, Navy assets. We also know it's happening privately, that in back channels, diplomatic channels, they're saying, listen, you know, ratchet this down. And to be fair, that message going not only to the Iranians but also to the Saudis which the U.S. -- and the U.S. has been very uncomfortable with the depth and breadth of the air campaign. So, that's possibly part of the reason why the Saudis pulled back yesterday.

BLITZER: A lot of civilian casualties in that --

SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

BLITZER: -- in that air campaign --

SCIUTTO: Dozens.

BLITZER: -- as well. All right, thanks very much, Jim Sciutto. Iran is involved in conflicts right now all over the region. It's

arming rebels in Yemen and the government in Syria. It's backing Iraqi forces in the fight against ISIS. It's also holding at least three Americans under blatantly unfair means and highly questionable charges.

Then there are the nuclear talks and their desire to have billions of dollars of crippling sanctions dropped.

Texas Republican Congressman, Mac Thornberry is joining us now live from Capitol Hill. He's the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, Mr. Chairman, I should say, thanks very much for joining us. Let's get right to what the White House says the nuclear talks -- they say that's a separate issue because of the critical need to keep nuclear arms out of Iranian hands. Do you agree with that compartmentalization? In other words, don't include these other issues as part of these nuclear related discussions?

REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: No. I think that's impossible to segregate these issues out. And a couple of reasons. Number one is if the nuclear talks are perfectly successful and achieve our goal of delaying Iran getting a nuclear weapon, it will give them more money through the relief of sanctions to be used for these other activities. So, it will fuel these sectarian wars around the Middle East. It will add to the instability because they're going to have a lot more money to do it.

Secondly, though, isn't it interesting, that in the midst of this delicate phase of these Iranian nuclear negotiations, Iran would choose to dial up the pressure in Yemen, to the point of sending this convoy, et cetera. It just makes you wonder whether they think that they can get away with anything because we want a deal so bad. And I think that mindset tells us a lot about what's happening in Iran right now.

BLITZER: As you know, the Iranians deny that they're shipping weapons, arms to those Shiite Houthi rebels in Yemen. The U.S. doesn't believe it. The U.S. officials say -- many of your colleagues on the Hill have been briefed on this, say they have no doubt that the Iranians are doing it. What do you know about alleged Iranian arms shipments potentially in those cargo vessels or warships that might be destined for those Houthi rebels?

[13:05:00] THORNBERRY: Well, obviously, none of us can get involved in disclosing classified information. I will just say, for me personally, I have no doubt that Iran is pulling the strings of the Houthis in Yemen. And they have intentionally dialed up the pressure. I think it is just an interesting comment that they have done so, at this time, when supposedly the nuclear negotiations were just at such a critical point.

BLITZER: A fair point indeed.

Let's talk about the U.S. military now. Maybe six or eight or 10,000 U.S. Sailors and Marines, they've now been deployed in these nine battle ships, warships off the coast of Yemen, including "The USS Teddy Roosevelt" an aircraft carrier, "The Battle Group," maybe 6,000 Sailors and Marines on that one aircraft carrier alone, with a lot of fire power, missiles, aircraft, stuff like that. What are the rules of engagement, as far as the U.S. military is concerned, if they suspect that one of those Iranian ships does, in fact, have weapons destined for those Houthi rebels?

THORNBERRY: Well, the rules of engagement are different depending on where the ships are in the ocean. If they are in international waters, it becomes much more complex to take some sort of assertive action to stop or turn those ships around. If they are in territorial waters of a particular country, then we can have the approval of that country's government, the president say of Yemen, to take greater action.

But I do think that when you put a lot of what you were just talking about in your previous report together, one of the things for us to think about is that, currently, Iran controls the straits coming out of the Persian Gulf. If they or their surrogate controls Yemen, in essence, they can control the straits coming out of the Red Sea, also. And that puts them in control of two key areas where shipping is very important, where much of the world's oil is shipped. So, I do think that freedom of navigation of shipping in the bigger strategic context of what Iran is doing is an important point.

BLITZER: So, you think the president, the Pentagon, did the right thing in deploying those warships, that aircraft carrier, "Battle Group," to the tip of Yemen over there to make sure the passage from the Suez Canal through the Red Sea, that all of that continues to flow smoothly. You support this deployment of military force, military power in that part of the world?

THORNBERRY: Yes, I think there's a lot at stake. There's a lot at stake, depending on what's in those cargo ships, resupplying the Houthis. But there's also a lot at stake in making sure that Iran is not in control of these two very strategic places through which much of the world's shipping traverses.

BLITZER: Mac Thornberry, he's the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.

THORNBERRY: You're welcome, sir.

BLITZER: Still ahead, Iran says U.S. strategy is ineffective and Iranian forces are making the difference against the fight against ISIS. We'll take you live to Tehran. Fred Pleitgen is there on the scene. We'll have a special report.

And later, get this, a drone. A drone lands on the roof of the Japanese prime minister's office but it's what that drone was carrying that has authorities not only in Japan but around the world, including right here in the United States, so concerned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:11:50] BLITZER: The war against ISIS has the United States and Iran focused on a common enemy. An Iranian military leader says his country, not the United States, is actually leading the battle against ISIS. And as our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen reports, more Iranians are ready to join the fight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): They're feared by many here but they're also some of the most loyal fighters to Iran's religious leadership. The besieged militia's mission is to protect this country's Islamic order. And one of its commanders told me, they're willing to take on ISIS.

We are all prepared to go and destroy ISIS totally, he says, if our eamon (ph) or supreme leader orders us to, we'll destroy ISIS. He says, so far, the besiege have not gotten involved in the fight. But the elite revolutionary guard Quds (ph) forces training, advising and supporting Iraqi Shia militias, led by General Su La Manni (ph) who is accused of involvement in the Shia insurgency against U.S. forces during the Iraq war but who's now become a celebrity to many Iraqis and Iranians.

(on camera): The Iranians believe it's their strategy that's making a difference in the fight against ISIS. They also tell us, they want better cooperation with the U.S. They say, at this point, the level of trust simply isn't there.

(voice-over): That feeling is mutual. The U.S. has also denied any direct coordination with the Iranians as it continues to lead the air campaign against ISIS.

GEN. AHMAD REZA POURDASTAN, COMMANDER, IRANIAN GROUND FORCES (translated): At the moment, we consider the United States to be a threat to us because its policies and actions are threatening to us, the commander of Iran's ground forces tells me. We would like the U.S. to change its rhetoric and tone of voice so that our nations could have more trust in U.S. military leadership.

PLEITGEN: The Iranians believe the air strikes against ISIS are not effective and they say they feel countries allied with the U.S. are not seriously trying to defeat the group.

MOHAMMED MARANDI, PROFESSOR, TEHRAN UNIVERSITY: The battle in Iraq is very important to Iran. The Iranians believe that the Americans, if they were serious, they could do a lot more to put pressure on their allies and also, if they were serious about air strikes, they would be carrying out a lot more than what they are currently doing.

PLEITGEN: The U.S., of course, sees things differently. Though Iran and America have a common enemy in ISIS, the lack of trust, at least so far, means no common strategy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And Fred Pleitgen is joining us now live from Tehran. So, (INAUDIBLE), basically, what I hear you saying, their military spokesman downplaying the effectiveness of U.S. air strikes. They're saying they're the ones that are really making a difference in the Iraqi push by the Iraqi military through the Shiite militias, through the Iranian forces, in trying to set back ISIS, right?

PLEITGEN: Yes, absolutely. That's absolutely what they're saying. They're also, of course, saying that they were the ones who organized these Shiite militias when, in fact, Baghdad was under threat of ISIS. And if you look at Kasum Su La Manni (ph), for instance, he's someone who, here in Iran, is very much credited with saving Baghdad at the time.

But, of course, now the big problem is -- Wolf, is this campaign as it goes on, is going into places like Anbar Province, places that are Sunni dominated, that have a majority Sunni population.

[13:15:14]

And the big question there is, how far can these Shiite militias go, especially because the big question now is also, how are going to keep Iraq together politically? Are these Shiite militias, are these people who are advised by Iran, which is, of course, a Shiite power, going to be able to lead to this national reconciliation that's going to be necessary to bring the Sunnis on board to then fight against ISIS as well? And that's really a question that so far there hasn't really been much of an answer to.

So the Iranians certainly say that they are the ones they believe who are putting the manpower on the ground, who are organizing the Iraqi forces and the militias. But the big question is, what happens next, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a huge question. All right, thanks very much. Fred Pleitgen is on the scene for us in Tehran. We'll check back with you tomorrow.

The fight against ISIS, the situation in Yemen, the nuclear negotiations, just some of the latest developments that are raising Iran's profile in the region. Joining us now to talk about that and more, our CNN global affairs analyst Bobby Ghosh. He's the managing editor of "Quartz." Also joining us, retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese. He's our CNN global affairs analyst, the former Delta Force commander.

Bobby, to say the United States has this complicated relationship with Iran right now is, obviously, an understatement. How does the Obama administration balance all these diverse situations that are unfolding right now?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, it would appear at this point, Wolf, that they're going - going about this by day to day, reacting to new situations on the ground. The Iranians send out a flotilla towards Yemen. The U.S. sends out an aircraft carrier and a group of other naval ships. But this is the new reality in the Middle East. This is how, in a region that is already highly complicated, things have now become immensely more complicated with the nuclear negotiations with Iran. And - and it's not just this administration, it is American administrations to come that will have to deal with this. In - in - it - I think we may look back to the - to the period, let's say, up to 2013 when we - when the Middle East was a relatively simple place. We - we - we were on one side with the Saudis and the Arab states and the Iranians were on the other side. Now things are far more complex. We are fighting alongside the Iranians in Iraq. We are fighting against Iranian interests in Yemen. And it's complicated beyond all belief.

BLITZER: And if you add Syria to the mix, it even gets more complicated.

Colonel Reese, the U.S. says it's not coordinating - you just spent a month or so in Iraq -- not coordinating this fight against ISIS with Iran. U.S. air strikes or whatever. But a lot of us have always believed there's been some indirect coordination, a common enemy, ISIS, that the indirect coordination going through the Iraqi military, because the Iraqi military has relations with the United States as well as with Iran.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Wolf, that is correct. And the Iraqis are doing a pretty good job of literally keeping a fire wall between Iran and the United States and working that coordination. And if you go and look at these Iraqi joint operation centers, they are bustling, they're busy, they're working a lot of coordination, especially with the air power from the coalition. And one thing, you know, Fred said the Iran said that, you know, the air - the air campaign against ISIS is not working. I will tell you that is completely false. And if it wasn't for the air power from the coalition supporting the Iraqi ground forces on the ground, Iraq would be a complete different perspective right now.

BLITZER: Yes, I just want to be precise, what Fred said is Iranian officials are insisting -

REESE: Correct.

BLITZER: Iranian military commanders are insisting the U.S. led air strikes in Iraq not really all that important. What's important is what they are doing together with the Iraqi military. But what you're saying, and I - and I believe you are right, those air strikes have had a significant impact on what's going on on the ground.

Bobby, you want to weigh in on that?

GHOSH: Yes. Well, it's - it's understandable why the Iranians are saying this. They need - their messaging to their own people, their view is this is that Iraq is now part of the Iranian sphere of influence. Iran - you had Iranian authorities, senior officials saying in public that Baghdad is now one of our cities. And so it is important for them to project to their own people that they, rather than the Americans or the rest of the world, are protecting Iraq. It is their ground forces, it is their commander, Solimani (ph), who is the real savior of Iraq. That is internal propaganda for political purposes that suit the current regime in Iran and they will - they will try and erase any other influence in Iraq in that propaganda.

[13:19:53] BLITZER: On Yemen right now, Bobby, how worried should we be - I'll tell you, I'm worried - about a miscalculation, a blunder or whatever. Nine U.S. warships off the coast of Yemen right now led by the USS Teddy Roosevelt, an aircraft carrier, thousands of U.S. sailors and Marines, maybe 6,000 or 10,000, already in the region off the coast of Yemen, nine Iranian ships, cargo ships and warships, now either there or heading there. The U.S. believes some of those ships have weapons for the Houthi rebels. Neither side wants a direct confrontation but it's possible that could develop, right?

GHOSH: Absolutely. The thing that - the scenario that worries me most is the Sea of Marmara incident. If you remember a couple of years ago that the Turks were - had sent a flotilla of ships to break Israel's blockade of Gaza. Israel sent some soldiers and helicopters into that ship. There was an incident. Shots were fired. And the two countries came very close to blows (ph).

You worry about something similar happening. It is already - the pressure cooker is very, very hot right now in the waters outside - I'm sorry, I'm mangling my - my analogies - but in the waters off Yemen. Things are very, very tense.

BLITZER: All right.

GHOSH: It could take very little for things to get completely out of hand.

BLITZER: Is my concern overstretched, what do you think, colonel?

REESE: Actually, I do, Wolf, a little bit. I mean there's no question that Yemen, you know, is a firecracker right now. But I believe the Saudis have a plan and I think we are in a great position right now. We are supporting our ally. Our ally has asked us to come down to take a look at this to show - to project power, which we are the finest projecting power across the sea in the entire world. And, you know, right now, we just want to make sure the Iranians can motor in. But, you know, I don't think, you know, we're not speculating. We have intelligence. No one's going to say it, but we have intelligence that say that there's lethal aid on those ships and we just want the Iranians to know that we are there in support of our allies, not to allow them to take them off those ships. And we won't be the ones, if it comes to that. The Saudis will be the ones with the big aircraft carrier like the Teddy Roosevelt behind them as a backdrop.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope it doesn't come to that. Let's hope the Iranians decide not to take those weapons if, in fact, there are weapons on those ships, and try to get them to those Houthi rebels because that could be a huge, huge conflagration to be sure.

All right, guys, thanks very much. We'll continue our analysis of what's going on.

Meanwhile, amidst all of this, a former American Marine now has been imprisoned in Iran and he is pleading with the United States for help. He's asking the government to do something to free him from prison. But should his freedom, the freedom of other Americans being held hostage, jailed in Iran, be tied to a nuclear deal with Iran? We'll ask a top U.S. congressman who's been leading the fight to free Amir Hekmati.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:26:21] BLITZER: Cooperating with an enemy government, that's one of the charges leveled by Iran against the American journalist Jason Rezaian. It's also the charge against a former U.S. Marine, Amir Hekmati, one of four Americans believed to be in Iranian custody right now. Hekmati technically is a dual U.S. citizen. He was arrested in Iran back in 2011 while on a visit. He was born in the United States, spent four years in the U.S. Marine Corps. He was originally sentenced to death for spying. That charge was later dropped. In its place, he was given 10 years for cooperating with an enemy government. Now for the first time, we're hearing his direct pleas from prison. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMIR HEKMATI, AMERICAN IMPRISONED IN IRAN (voice-over): While I'm thankful that the State Department, the Obama administration has called for my release and that of my fellow Americans. Aside from asking politely, there has been no serious response to this blatant and ongoing mistreatment of Americans by Iran's ministry of intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That audio was released by Hekmati's family, part of his plea to lawmakers here in the United States. Now here's his sister talking about her brother's captivity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HEKMATI, SISTER OF IMPRISONED AMERICAN: He's, obviously, suffering a great deal and we're very worried about his well-being. We've made this very clear to the State Department that as much as they want to raise this on the sidelines and make this a separate issue, this message needs to be conveyed to the Iranian authorities that are responsible for delaying progress in Amir's case because it's unfair to us as his family to see that the outcomes of Amir's case is going to be tied to something that he has nothing to do with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Here with us is Michigan Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee, who's - Amir Hekmati is from the congressman's district back in Flynt, Michigan.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

I know for the last several years you've been working to get this former U.S. Marine out of there. Has there been any movement at all lately to free him?

REP. DAN KILDEE (D), MICHIGAN: Well, I think the most movement we've seen is that as a result of the P5 plus one negotiations, not tied to them directly, but as a result, there are sidebar discussions between American and Iranian senior officials for the first time in three and a half decades. So the fact that there is that opportunity for bilateral discussion has opened the door for sidebar conversations between our negotiators, including Secretary Kerry and Foreign Ministers Zarif and others. So I - we have to see that as progress, although it's hard to accept progress that doesn't include his release.

BLITZER: Because, as you know, a lot of people, including some members of Congress in the Senate and the House, Marco Rubio yesterday, Senator Kirk of Illinois, they say any nuclear deal must include the freedom of these Americans. Are you among those who wants to link directly a nuclear deal with the release of these Americans?

KILDEE: I don't think we should link it in that sense. I don't think we should ever concede nuclear capabilities to Iran in exchange for the freedom of people who are innocent. But, having said that, and this seems like a nuance but it's an important distinction, I don't think any member of Congress or American can look at Iran as a legitimate member of the global community or look at any agreement that we strike with them without considering their other behavior. And until and unless they don't any longer hold innocent people as political prisoners, I can't erase that from my memory when I think about whether I can legitimately look at an agreement that they negotiate and think of it as a legitimate document.

BLITZER: All right. And remind our viewers here in the United States and around the world, he went back to Iran. He was born in the United States.

KILDEE: Right.

BLITZER: He's obviously a Marine. Served for, what, for four years in the Marine Corps.

KILDEE: Right.

BLITZER: He went back because he simply wanted to see his grandmother, right?

[13:30:02] KILDEE: Right, he had never met this particular grandmother. His parents emigrated from Iran after the Iranian Revolution. He was born here but wanted to go back.