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Flooding In Houston; Iraqi Forces Launch Major Anbar Offensive; Iranian-Backed Shiite Militias Part Of Offensive; Carter Slams Iraqi Military Over Ramadi Loss; Iraqi Unhappy With U.S. Comments On Military; Flooding Devastation; Journalist on Trial in Iran. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired May 26, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad, 9:30 p.m. in Tehran. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with a major Iraqi offensive aimed at ISIS. The Iraqi military move comes just over a week after ISIS militants took over Ramadi. Ramadi is the provincial capital of Anbar Province in western Iraq. The Iraqi move also aimed at taking back Anbar which is mostly in the grip of ISIS fighters right now.

Our Senior International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us now live. He's in Baghdad. Nick, what do we know about this Iraqi military offensive? Who exactly is taking part?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this stage, Wolf, I'll just explain the scene around me. We know that the last hours or so have been fraught by a very thick sandstorm that's blown across Anbar. I think we're in the back end of it here in Baghdad that explains the mist you're seeing behind me. But that will have substantially slowed any progress on the ground militarily.

Who is involved in this? Well, for the most part, people, in fact, actually who will not really benefit too much from the cover the sandstorm provides because they don't know the areas so well. On the pro-government side, there are the Shia militia who are also known as the Hashno Shabbi (ph), but also we are now aware that the police and military are involved in this, too.

Now, of course, the other side, ISIS will have had a week or so now to dig in. But this flurry of activity began with announcements this morning, state television hinting (ph) they had big operation to take Anbar. But it was the Hashno Shabbi, the Shia militia, who surprised many, I think, by stamping their mark on this operation, giving a press conference, outlining the main detail of the first moves which are to take the key supplier route into Anbar to the northeast of that providence to head up toward a key oil town known as Bioge (ph).

Now, that's what they're focusing themselves on first up. Then, we heard from the prime minister and defense ministry through the same state T.V. channel suggesting that it would be a combined police military and militia group that would move towards Ramadi and around Anbar, the province that it's in, in the nearest of time.

But as it stands, clearly no military advances overnight with this kind of sandstorm blowing around Ramadi. But we are told a semicircle roughly to the south of that city is where pro-government forces have laid their positions now, potentially for some sort of activity in the days ahead -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So, just to be precise, Nick, are the Iranian-backed Shia militia, are they taking the lead in this new offensive to try to retake Ramadi or regular troops of the Iraqi military?

WALSH: It is quite clear, if you look at the choreography of how announcements were made today and what appears to be happening on the ground, that is the Hashno Shabbi, the Iranian-backed Shiite militia, who will be the tip of the spear. There will be, of course, Iraqi military and police involved here.

But I think it was simply the fact that it was the Hashno Shabbi who've got to give a name to this operation, calling it, answering the call of Hussein. Hussein, of course, being the son of Ali, the forefigure (ph) in Shiaism here. Very much putting a Shia branding to this operation. And then, of course, will cause many, in the Iraqi governments, if there are that many, who hope to see a broadly nationalistic coalition here of military police.

Sunni tribesmen, we're told by officials today, that thousands could take part in this. But they may (INAUDIBLE) by the branding, given this operation by the Hashno Shabbi (ph). We're simply going to have to see how cohesive these forces can be in fighting together because that's key. (INAUDIBLE) disciplined, focused and now we dug into Ramadi. If there isn't cohesion in the forces against them, they will have a much longer fight ahead of them than previously imagined -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Be careful over there, especially in that sandstorm that's affecting the region. Nick Paton Walsh in Baghdad.

The role of the United States in the Anbar Province may be limited right now. The policy on air strikes as the force is being supported must be under Iraqi military command. And that may be hard to determine with so many Iranian-backed Shiite militias fighting and Sunni tribes involved as well.

Joining us from Montreal is the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker. Joining us from Raleigh, North Carolina, the retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, our CNN Global Affairs Analyst, former Delta Force commander. And joining us from Irvine, California is Bob Bear, our CNN Security and Intelligence Analyst. He's a former CIA operative.

Ambassador, what's the story right now? Is this effort largely, as we just heard from Nick, based on Iraqi Shiite militias? Is this what the U.S. wants because clearly they want the Iraqi military to take charge, not Iranian-backed Shiite militias?

[13:05:02] RYAN CROCKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, we have to sort of sort through the smoke and dust here to figure out actually what is going on. Clearly, if this were to be an Iranian- backed Shia militia effort, it would be about the worst thing I could imagine, from the point of view of U.S. interest.

BLITZER: Why is that?

CROCKER: This is a thrust into the heart of Sunni Iraq, Anbar Province, the citadel of Sunniism in Iraq, if you will. I cannot imagine anything more carefully calculated to permanently split this country apart, the country of Iraq apart, than a Shia-led military effort into a completely Sunni area.

BLITZER: That's very disturbing. Bob Baer, as you know, and we just heard Nick report this from Baghdad, it was the Shiite militia that announced the launch of this operation to try to retake Ramadi, not the Iraqi military, not the Iraqi government. And they specifically used a Shia Imam's revered name as if they're deliberately seeking to poison the Iraqi Sunnis. What do you make of this?

ROBERT BAER, CNN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I agree with Ambassador Crocker who knows this region better than anybody in the world, I think. This is an absolute catastrophe if those militias go in and take Ramadi, destroy the town. It is the heart of the Sunni Arab part of Iraq and evoking the name of the grandson of the prophet, Hussein, is an insult to Sunni Muslims. And this will have the sectarian meltdown which we're -- which we're nearing in the Middle East. And especially Iraq will have reverberations everywhere from Europe -- I mean, from Yemen to Saudi Arabia to the rest of the Gulf. This is just an absolute catastrophe.

BLITZER: What do you think, Colonel Reese?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RETIRED), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I disagree, Wolf. I've been saying that I disagree. I understand there's a lot of smart people out there who've worked this problem for a long time. But I think we're making a lot of generalizations. We don't have a lot of good information on the ground. We don't have a lot of our own assets that are feeding us information.

And, again, as I've been on the ground here. I just got back again. Again, there's a political side and then there's everyone else on the ground. Maybe at the political side, like Ambassador Crocker says, it could become a catastrophe. But when you have a quarter of a million -- quarter of a million people that are being displaced, trying to move to Baghdad, it's just like it happened in Tikrit. They had three elements. The Astrishobi (ph), led by the Boticor (ph). They had the military -- they had the military police, federal police. Then, they had the ninth division up there attacking in Tikrit. And they were successful. It wasn't pretty. It was very ugly. But it was -- it was -- it was successful. I think it's the same model you're going to see out west in Al Anbar.

And, at the end of the day, like I've said, listening to the soldiers on the ground and the junior leaders on the ground, not at the political, not at the general officer level, they see a common enemy, a dishe (ph), Sunni Shia want to fight together to defeat this. And maybe that's the problem. We just have this break between political and everybody else.

BLITZER: All right. I want to play -- and Ambassador Crocker, let me get your reaction. And it's a really critical statement that the U.S. defense secretary, Ash Carter, told our Barbara Starr, our Pentagon Correspondent, because he minced absolutely no words. He's the defense secretary of the United States. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHTON CARTER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: What apparently happened was that the Iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. They were not outnumbered. In fact, they vastly outnumbered the opposing force and yet they failed to fight. They withdrew from the site. And that says, to me, and I think to most of us, that we have an issue with the will of the Iraqis to fight ISIL and defend themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Ambassador Crocker, you know Ash Carter. He's highly respected. He's the defense secretary. Presumably, he's privy to the most sensitive information about the capabilities of the Iraqi military. Does he know what he's talking about or is he wrong?

CROCKER: Wolf, I would simply note that Iraqi forces have been fighting out there for the last 16 months, since the beginning of last year. The city is almost fallen on a number of occasions. They've held on with their fingernails. And I think we need to take that into account. I think there are real questions about leadership and generalship in the Iraqi security forces. And I would ask, where are we? We used to be able to make a difference in decisions on command and control. I would suggest that part of the problem that Iraq is facing today is because we have been missing in action.

[13:10:02] BLITZER: So, you blame the United States more than the Iraqi military. Is that what you're saying, Ambassador?

CROCKER: There is a very complex situation out there. What I am saying is that we have shown we can make a difference when we bring our influence together. This is ultimately a political situation, a political struggle. The politics are pretty badly messed up right now. We can make a difference in that. We're not making that difference.

BLITZER: We just heard, moments ago, Bob Bear, the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, speak out on this sensitive issue, what Ash Carter, the defense secretary, said. And he was asked, the White House press secretary, whether the defense secretary was authorized by the White House to blast the Iraqi military the way he did. Listen to the response from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, what Secretary Carter said is consistent with the analysis that he's received from those who are on the ground, who are looking at this situation. And he has also indicated, on a number of occasions, that there is an important role for the United States in our coalition partners to play in supporting those Iraqi security forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. What do you think about what's going on over here, Bob Baer?

BAER: Well, Ash Carter, I think -- I mean, it was an incredible statement. I mean, he just told the truth as it is. And I believe him. And -- but the implications are scary is what he basically said is that ISIS is more of a state than Iraq is. And so, where does that leave us? We are -- we are not in touch with Al Anbar and Ramadi's fall was a strategic setback in the sense that we've lost the Sunni heartland. In any war that we participate in, either by air or with Baghdad, is going to look like we've joined a side in the civil war.

And right now, this government of Abadi and -- you know, is basically the successor of Maliki, is still a sectarian. He's a member of the Dawa party. It's a sectarian government rejected by the Sunni. And unless there's a political framework, as Ambassador Crocker said, it's going to be just sort of a civil war that goes on forever.

BLITZER: Colonel Reese, I know you disagree with the defense secretary, Ash Carter. And you were just there in Iraq. You spent some time with the Iraqi military. There's no doubt that there are Iraqi soldiers who are deeply committed to the struggle against ISIS. But where does the whole bitterness between Iraqi Sunnis and Shia play in? Because you heard a lot of Sunni ministers in the government echo basically what Ash Carter said that the Iraqi military did not show a will to fight.

REESE: Yes, Wolf. I mean, it's difficult. And, you know, both what Bob and the ambassador say, it is -- it's a conundrum. It's a difficult situation. But, again, at -- you know, the level, the people level, some of the soldier level, you know, I've seen them. I've seen Sunni and Shia fight together on top of a roof in Tikrit.

And, again, it's one focus. It's one -- it's one dishe (ph), one ISIS enemy. And it -- but, again, as it moves up the chain of command, there seems to be this resonance. And, unfortunately, I think, a lot of times, back here, we resonate that Sunni-Shia aspect ourselves sometimes because that's what we know. That's what we're always afraid of.

Instead of maybe looking at, is there another aspect out there? I'm not saying this is easy. It's a very difficult situation. But I will tell you about Secretary Carter. You know, the Department of Defense prides itself on, yes, no, I don't know. And when you start your statement with, apparently, as the secretary of defense, that to mean is, we really don't know. And like Bob said is we don't have a real good look in Al Anbar and it's a problem.

BLITZER: Ambassador Crocker, you spent years over there in Iraq. You know the culture. You know the language. You know the people. If the president of the United States called you right now and said, Ambassador, what do we need to do? Very quickly, give us the most immediate recommendation you would offer. CROCKER: One word, engage. That means sending the secretary of state

out there right now. It means for the president himself to be on the phone to the prime minister and to other Iraqi political leaders.

Wolf, you can't beat something with nothing. Right now, politically, we've got next to nothing in the game. And that leaves it to the Iranians. That is not taking us to a good place. We can still make a difference but we're going to have to up our game politically very substantially. I would have my secretary of state on a plane right now.

BLITZER: And the vice president, he called Haider Al Abadi, the prime minister, yesterday. They spoke on the phone. That's not enough, ambassador?

CROCKER: Sustained engagement is what we need. We have not had that for the last few years. We need it now. You know, a phone call is important. A visit is even more important. And a string of visits and phone calls to demonstrate that this is of critical importance to the U.S., that we are going to make a difference, we are going to use our influence is what we need to demonstrate now.

[13:15:07] BLITZER: Our Ryan Crocker, the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, thanks very much. James Reese, Bob Baer, thanks to you as well.

We're going to stay on top of this story. The stakes clearly right now enormous.

Other news we're following, stunning pictures out of Texas here in the United States. You're looking at a live shot from one of the U.S.'s biggest cities. We're talking about Houston, Texas, now, chunks of it under water after flooding has wiped out whole neighborhoods. We'll go live to the center of the disaster. That's coming up, next.

And later, the secret trial of an American journalist held in Iran. Jason Razaian's boss, the foreign editor of "The Washington Post" standing by to join us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here in the United States, a massive rescue effort underway right now as Texas and Oklahoma grapple with deadly floods. Take a look at this. This is Houston, a huge U.S. city, brought to a halt. Floodwaters swallowing up roads. Thousands of cars under water.

The death toll continues to rise. Right now it stands at nine. Four in Oklahoma, five in Texas, another 12 people are still missing. Among the known dead, 18-year-old high school student Alyssa Renee Ramirez. Her car overcome by rising water as she was driving home from prom. Among the missing, Laura McComb and her two young children. They were swept away when raging floodwaters uprooted their vacation home.

And a new number just in. This storm has damaged more than 1,000 homes, many of those houses simply washed off their foundations by fast-moving water.

President Obama last hour saying he has spoken with the Texas governor, Greg Abbott.

[13:20:02] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and the communities that have been affected by some of these devastating record-breaking floods. I assured Governor Abbott that he could count on the help of the federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're standing by, by the way, to hear from Governor Abbott. He's going to be speaking to us shortly. But I want to bring in our meteorologist, Jennifer Grey. She's in hard-hit Wimberley, Texas.

Jennifer, so many stories coming out of this storm. Tell our viewers what you're seeing.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: This is devastating, Wolf. You know, this was one of the first areas hit because all of this water rushed downstream and it only made matters worse. In the Houston area, after they got eight to nine inches of rain, all of this additional water didn't help whatsoever.

We are standing along the banks of the Blanco River and you can see it's just raging past. In fact, this was above my head. This rose to 43 feet before the river gauge broke. So we actually have no idea to know how high it actually was at its highest point. But it has lowered considerably. But you can see the trees just littering the banks and a lot of these homes are built well above this river, probably never guessing that the water would come this high, but it did. Like I said, the water above my head on Sunday by the time this river crested.

And look just over my shoulder, this home completely ripped off its foundation. All the homes on this street look very, very similar to this and they're all just pushed back. And I took a closer look a moment ago. The water line is just on the top of the first story. So you can imagine water went at least eight to 10 feet inside this home. And it is just pure devastation all across here, Wolf.

You can hear the choppers flying above me. Folks are getting out, they're surveying the damage. There are a dozen people missing in this county alone. And so we have search crews out. We have crews that are starting to clean up all of the debris, the trees, things like that. So they have a long way to go, of course, 200 to 300 homes completely destroyed across the area, Wolf.

BLITZER: Any relief in the forecast? What are you hearing, Jennifer?

GRAY: Well, we are going to stay mainly dry today and tomorrow. We do have a slight chance of a little bit of isolated activity. So if areas that do get caught in some of those heavy downpours, they do risk flash flooding because it's so saturated, the rivers are filled to capacity. But we are going to stay mainly dry for a couple days. Unfortunately, though, more rain in the forecast by the end of the week and the weekend. So folks need to know that when it comes to weather, more people die in flooding than anything else. And so when you hear those warnings, you need to seek to higher ground immediately.

BLITZER: Good advice, Jennifer. All right, thanks very much.

And, once again, we're hoping to speak live with the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott. He's supposed to be calling us in a little while. We'll have that - that's coming up. We'll get an update from him.

And, by the way, if you'd like to help those affected by the severe weather in Texas and Oklahoma, go to cnn.com/impact and you'll be able to impact your world.

An American journalist is now on trial in Iran. He's accused of being a spy. But Jason Rezaian's trial is being held behind closed doors. Even his wife has been locked out. We're going to talk about his fate with one of his colleagues at "The Washington Post." That's coming up right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:26:49] BLITZER: Right now an American journalist is on trial behind closed doors in Iran. "The Washington Post" correspondent Jason Rezaian is accused of spying for the United States. The first session of the trial ended today but it's not clear what happened since it's not open to the public. Both Rezaian and his wife were arrested last July. She's since been released on bail. Joining us now from "The Washington Post" is Douglas Jehl. He's the paper's foreign editor.

Douglas, thanks very much for joining us.

I've been following this story from the beginning. We know "The Post" has been using some very strong language characterizing what's happening, calling it right now this trial a shameful act of injustice. Tell us what's going on, based on everything you at "The Washington Post" now know.

DOUGLAS JEHL, FOREIGN EDITOR, "WASHINGTON POST": Well, what's so alarming is that we know so little, Wolf. It's been ten months now that Jason has been in prison in Iran and the access to him has been extraordinarily limited. We've been unable to have direct communication with him. Communications have really been limited through his wife and only a 90-minute visit with his lawyer.

We'd hoped today would be good news. We hoped it would be a chance for the world to scrutinize the charges against Jason and bring this matter to a swift resolution. Instead, it's proceeding behind closed doors and really very unclear what happened today or what will happen next.

BLITZER: What's the basis of their accusation that he was engaged in espionage against Iran on behalf of the United States?

JEHL: Well, again, even that is unclear. The case file remains secret. The lawyer who's been permitted to review it is unable to speak publicly about it. What she (ph) has said, though, is that there's absolutely no foundation for these charges. And what I can say is that they're absolutely absurd and preposterous. Jason was a journalist. BLITZER: Tell us about - you know, tell us about him a little bit

because most of our viewers are not all that familiar with his work at "The Washington Post," Jason Rezaian.

JEHL: You know, Jason's kind of a regular guy. He grew up in the San Francisco Bay area. He loves baseball and burritos and hanging out with his friends. He's also the son of an Iranian father and decided to begin his career as a journalist in Iran about five years or so ago. He believed in helping both countries understand one another better and he wrote about the lives of the Iranian people in a really vivid and compelling way.

BLITZER: You would think the United States has some leverage on Iran right now given the negotiations on this nuclear deal, supposed to be wrapped up by the end of the month. They're going to get tens of billions of dollars in frozen assets released to them. Are you satisfied with what the U.S. government is doing to try to win his release?

JEHL: We're grateful for all the U.S. government has done in making clear, loudly and repeatedly, that what Iranian is going is unacceptable. I think it would be valuable if that happened every day. The louder these complaints are raised, perhaps the more chance there is that they'll be heard.

I'm not so sure about leverage, though. Iran's a very complicated place. The people at the bargaining table with the U.S. are not the ones who are making the decisions about whether Jason ought to stay in jail or not. Those people are operating under a different calculus, I think.