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Trump Remains Defiant; Trump Takes Shots At Rival Candidates; Trump Gives Out Lindsey Graham's Number; Investigation into Chattanooga Terrorist Motives; Flags Lowered to Half-Staff. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1 p.m. here in Washington, 6 p.m. in London, 8 p.m. in Jerusalem. Whenever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Donald Trump defiant as ever. The speech that just concluded only moments ago, he ripped into his rivals at a rally in South Carolina even giving a phone number out to Senator Lindsey Graham, once again taking a swing at Senator John McCain's war record. Listen to this

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:00:04] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And this is why I'm angry at John McCain. For two reasons, number one, John McCain, you've got to remember this, he's totally about open borders and all of this stuff. And when I went to Arizona, he called these 15,000 unbelievable people. Unbelievable. I know crazies. OK? I know crazies. These were unbelievable American people. And John McCain, who I supported for president, I think I raised him over a million dollars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Trump's controversial comment on Saturday stating Senator John McCain was not necessarily a war hero, that hasn't, at least so far, necessarily hurt him in the polls, the national polls, yet. He leads the pack in CNN's latest Poll of Polls which averages results for the five most recent publicly released national polls.

In the Republicans' choice for nominee for 2016, Trump is leading this Poll of Polls with 17 percent. The former Florida Governor, Jeb Bush, is second with 14 percent. The Wisconsin governor, Scott Walker, rounds out the top three with 10 percent. In the most recent "Washington Post" ABC News poll, he is way, way ahead of both of those.

Let's discuss what's going on. Joining us here in our studio is David Chalian, our CNN Political Director and Gloria Borger, our Political Analyst. The speech that he just delivered, it was a very, very direct assault on several of his major Republican presidential challengers.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICIAL ANALYST: Direct personal attacks, Wolf. I mean, calling Lindsey Graham an idiot. Giving out his personal cell phone number.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I thought it was after Lindsey Graham called him a jackass.

BORGER: Well, right, exactly, exactly. You know, tell -- saying that Rick Perry wears glasses to make him look smart. He's already called John McCain --

BLITZER: He gave out Lindsey Graham's cell phone number.

BORGER: Right, right.

BLITZER: Personal cell phone number.

BORGER: Right. Said that -- you know, he's already said that John McCain is a loser. This is not the kind of political debate the Republican Party was hoping to have. I mean, these are just sort of ad hominem attacks. It's more like a high school Twitter war than anything else. And, in long run, the question is whether Republicans who support him are angry enough to say, OK, yes, it's fine to call Lindsey Graham an idiot. It's fine.

BLITZER: You know, but Donald Trump, David, it makes -- he's very blunt about this. If somebody slaps him, he's going to slap harder. He's going to really punch back. That's the way he's been throughout his career. And if Lindsey Graham calls him a, quote, "jackass," he's going to come back and hit him hard.

CHALIAN: Exactly, which is why we're getting a little foreshadowing for what that first debate is going to look like. And this is what all the campaigns are now trying to figure out because if you take him on in some direct way, you have to be ready to receive twice as hard of a hit. This supreme confidence has been his brand. He is doing this fearlessly and unafraid and completely divorced from whatever rules we all thought we understood about presidential campaigns and presidential politics. It has served him well in business and, right now, it's serving him well with the electorate -- the Republican nominating electorate. I mean, that poll that you cited, that ABC News "Washington Post" poll, he's not just a little ahead. He's got twice as much support as his closest (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: He's got 24 percent.

CHALIAN: But --

BLITZER: Hold on a second. I want to play this clip. Here he is going after Senator Lindsey Graham who is also a Republican presidential candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This guy, Lindsey Graham, gets out and he's out there and he calls me a jackass. I'm supposed to be -- I'm trying to be nice. You know, I'm working hard to be nice. But every time I turn on, I have -- I have some guy that is hitting me, like, hard. Now, the reason they're hitting me, in all fairness, is when you register zero in the poll, what the hell, they have nothing to lose, right? And then, I thought to myself about Lindsey Graham -- you know, I thought it was a very bad statement. You know, you build a fortune. You're a smart guy. You want to do something great for the country. I'm giving up millions of dollars. I had Macy's terminate a deal because, oh, Don, you're a little controversial. You're talking about illegal immigration. I said, it's illegal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He also said that Lindsey Graham couldn't get a job in the private sector. Even if he tried to get a job, the only he's had is in the public sector.

BORGER: So, the background to all of this is that Lindsey Graham is John McCain's closest friend in the Senate, has been a huge supporter. John McCain a huge supporter of Lindsey Graham's candidacy for the presidency. John McCain and Trump, as you know, do not get along too well. And Lindsey Graham was defending John McCain.

He had come out before -- and in this, Donald Trump is right. The folks who are scratching in the polls, they have got -- there's no reason they shouldn't attack Donald Trump because then they can get a little bit of publicity. Get a little bit of oxygen. Get in the ring with him a little bit to try and get into that (INAUDIBLE.)

But from Lindsey Graham's point of view, I would have to say that this was more about defending someone he believes is a true American hero and that's John McCain.

[13:05:06] BLITZER: And he minced no words in going after the former Texas governor, Rick Perry, also. Rick Perry, he's been going after Donald Trump in very, very tough words. He basically said that Rick Perry is what?

CHALIAN: He said he's wearing glasses to make himself look smart. He said he was terrible on the border, dealing with the Mexican-Texas border. And then, he went on to praise Perry's successor, Governor Greg Abbott, as actually doing work to secure the border. So, in every which way, he was slicing and dicing Rick Perry.

BLITZER: I want to go out to the scene. Our CNN politics reporter M.J. Lee is at that speech in Bluffton, South Carolina. What kind of reception, M.J., did he receive?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf. I think that people here were extremely excited to see Donald Trump in action. A lot of people I spoke to said that their favorite thing about Donald Trump is the fact that he will say whatever is on his mind. I think that people are used to seeing him on television, know that he was the host of "The Apprentice" and were excited to, sort of, see him in person.

And I think that it's fair to say that he gave them quite a performance today. I know that David and Gloria talked a little bit about some of the attacks that he unleashed on some of his fellow candidates, including Rick Perry, Lindsey Graham. The fact that he read off on stage what he said was Lindsey Graham's cell phone number because he isn't too happy with Lindsey Graham these days. All of those things, I think, gave the audience here exactly what they were looking for, see him in action and see him and what all the fuss is all about.

BLITZER: I know we have another sound bite that I want to play, M.J. Here, once again, Donald Trump speaking at this event just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I was coming up and I see your senator. What a stiff. What a stiff. Lindsey Graham. By the way, -- by the way, he registered zero in the polls. Zero. He's on television all the time. So, this morning, you know, they told me, Mr. Trump -- because Bush said my tone is not nice. My tone. I said, tone? We need tone. We need enthusiasm. We need tone. It's true.

But they said -- and, actually, Hillary Clinton said, I don't like his tone. We have people having their heads cut off, Christians, in the Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Donald Trump mincing no words at all. Joining us on the phone right now is Michael Cohen. He's the executive vice president for the Trump Organization, also a special counsel to Donald Trump. Michael, thanks very much for joining us. I just want to clarify one thing. Does Donald Trump is regret the initial comments he made about Senator John McCain having served as a POW during the Vietnam War?

MICHAEL COHEN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (via telephone): Well, the answer to that, and I discussed this at length on many CNN segments, Donald Trump did not say anything that should have been taken the way that it was taken by this liberal media. What he said specifically four times is that John McCain is a war hero and that John McCain should be acknowledged as a war hero. And this is one of the reasons why he's so disappointed and angry with the likes of the Marco Rubio or the Rick Perrys because they're looking to grab a sound bite, a three-second distorted sound bite. And they're looking to jump all over it in order to give themselves some name recognition and some T.V. time.

BLITZER: Because last night, when he was being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly on Fox, he seemed to back off a little bit and maybe acknowledge he should have phrased it a little bit better. Did -- I assume you saw that interview.

COHEN: I did see it and he did. He wanted to clarify the statement that he made. Now, unlike many of the other politicians, Donald Trump does not read off a teleprompter. He does not come in with prepared speeches. I mean, watched on your CNN, the president just prior to Mr. Trump's speech. And it's beautiful rhetoric by the president. Unfortunately, what it is is it's a scripted speech and he's a great orator. Unfortunately, he's not a doer. It's all talk. It's no action. And that's something that is really upsetting to Mr. Trump. BLITZER: Is he -- going forward now with this campaign full speed

ahead, is he going to reconsider some of his style? Because the speech we just heard in South Carolina, that was very, very tough.

COHEN: Well, it may be tough but I'll tell you, it was received very well by the audience. I heard -- many standing ovations were given and there was certainly a lot of applause and a lot of laughter. You know, Mr. Trump delivered, as you recently stated, a great performance and it should be acknowledged.

[13:10:03] One of the things that's driving, again, you know, Mr. Trump to continue speaking negatively about these individuals is that they want to come after him and it only makes sense. He's the front- runner.

BLITZER: He certainly is the front runner right now, if you believe this latest ABC News "Washington Post" poll, by double digits. Although, you do notice, and a lot of pollsters have pointed out, Michael, that the final day of the polls, his numbers in the aftermath of his comments involving Senator John McCain being a POW in Vietnam, in the final day, his approval numbers significantly went down. You noticed that, right?

COHEN: You know, that's not -- see, now you're not being -- you're not being accurate either, Wolf. The bottom line is I spoke to the individuals and it's ballpark about one percent. So, instead of being 24 percent, he would have 25 percent.

I'm going to tell you one thing about Mr. Trump. He's unscripted. He's genuine. And he speaks from the heart. And that's exactly what people see and that's why he's resonating so highly in the polls. Mr. Trump sees this is country as the land of opportunity. And what he tells people, and if he's elected, he will bring that opportunity to their doorstep.

BLITZER: And so, he's moving full speed ahead. What are the chances, final question, that if the other Republicans, including the Republican National Committee, we saw that statement that was put out by the RNC criticizing him, that all the Republicans sort of gang up on him. Do you think he might run as a thirty party Ross Perot type presidential candidate?

COHEN: Look, if he does that, then there's certainly zero chance for a Republican to hold the office of the presidency in this upcoming election. I don't believe that that's going to happen. I believe that Mr. Trump will become the Republican nominee.

I believe that he will continue with his open dialogue and he -- look, Wolf, let me just digress for one split second. Mr. Trump has basically brought out the only two topics right now that anyone are talking about. He talked about the V.A., which is now what the president spent quite a bit of time talking about, and he budget up the issue of illegal immigration.

Now, people want to attack him for a word, for a clarification. That's what they're going to do. But it's not helping them and that's demonstrated by yet another poll where Donald Trump is leading, and as you said, by double digits.

BLITZER: Here's one final question for you, Michael Cohen, and it's raising a lot of questions right now. In his public speech, after going after Senator Lindsey Graham, the senator from South Carolina who earlier criticized him because of his comments about John McCain, at one point, Donald Trump released the personal private phone number, cell phone number, of Senator Lindsey Graham. And basically told the audience out there, there were a lot of cameras, you got a problem with Lindsey Graham, call him. And then, he read out his phone number publicly like that. Was that really appropriate?

COHEN: You know, I didn't see him do that. I'm here, as you, in New York. And I was trying to watch it live stream on CNN. Unfortunately, they broke away. That's a question you're going to have to ask Mr. Trump. It's certainly his number and maybe the whole world has that number already. He is certainly their representative and they have every right within which to reach out to him.

But I will tell you what is inappropriate. What's inappropriate is Lindsey Graham's comment of Donald Trump. What he did, again, like that others, he took a sound bite, a three-second sound bite which Mr. Trump retracted virtually immediately, almost immediately, and four times acknowledged that John McCain is a war hero. Four times. But that wasn't good enough for Lindsey Graham because, as I said the other day on Chris's show, he's where? Where somewhere less than zero in the poll?

So, he needs to get tough. He needs to show that he's not going to allow Donald Trump to be Donald Trump. And he goes out there and he tries to grandstand off of his friend's war record, off of John McCain being a POW. What Donald Trump was saying, and there's no question about this, he's saying that he has ultimate respect for anyone that puts on fatigue.

Anyone that's willing to fight for this country is a hero. No different than every police officer or firefighter. They are all heroes, including anyone that puts on their pants in the morning and decides to go to work on behalf of their family. They're heroes as well. There's no reason in the world why one person should be singled out and he should be what's identified as a hero.

[13:15:00] Anyone that fights for this country is a hero in Mr. Trump's eyes.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that. Michael Cohen is the executive vice president of the Trump Organization and special counsel to Donald Trump. We'll continue, obviously, to cover this story. Donald Trump, once again, he's leading in the national polls. He's doing well in the state polls in Iowa, New Hampshire, elsewhere as well. Thanks very much, Michael, for joining us.

COHEN: Any time, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, much more on Donald Trump, but we're also following other news here, including British police, they now say they have foiled an ISIS-inspired terror attack on U.S. military personnel. We have details.

And authorities now say the evidence increasingly indicates the Chattanooga gunman's motive was, in fact, terror. The city's mayor standing by to join us live.

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BLITZER: We're following new developments in the Chattanooga shooting rampage that left four U.S. Marines and A U.S. Sailor dead. Authorities now say the evidence increasingly indicates the gunman's motive was, in fact, anti-American terror. Writings examined by the FBI and other evidence show that the shooter, Mohammad Abdulazeez, had political and terrorist motives and that he had done recent internet searches on martyrdom.

[13:20:18] Let's bring in our justice reporter, Evan Perez, who's looking at the latest information we're getting about this investigation. It's a very, very deep investigation.

What are you learning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Wolf, there's a lot of work left for the FBI to do, but what's emerging so far from what they've looked at is signs of radicalization going back at least to 2013. In 2013, they found writings of Abdulazeez in which he makes reference to Anwar al- Awlaki, the Yemeni cleric believed to be one of the leaders of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen. And in it he says that he supports certain parts of what al-Awlaki is talking about, some of his teachings.

And then more recently, in the last couple of days, in fact on Wednesday, the day before the shooting, he has made some searches on his phone in which he's looking up martyrdom. And so these are things that are playing into the FBI's conclusion, really. They haven't yet arrived at a full conclusion, but they're -- they're increasingly certain that this is definitely a terrorist attack, something that was politically motivated based on this suspect's radicalization of (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER: So he may have been inspired or motivated by anti-American terror groups --

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: Like Anwar al-Awlaki, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, that's not ISIS, AQAP, but he -- but he -- there's no evidence yet, correct me if I'm wrong, that it was specifically directed --

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: By one individual from that organization or any other terrorist organization.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. There's no -- no signs so far that they've found of any direct communications or any kind of direction from any terrorist groups. He spent some time in Jordan. That's something that the FBI is looking at and they want to interview more people. They want to certainly talk to people who saw him in the last 72 hours because they want to know a little bit more about his state of mind. But he seems to be more of a cafeteria radical is what you might call him. He's taking pieces of radical Islamist thoughts from different places and cobbling it together, along with the fact that he's struggling with mental health issues, drug and alcohol issues and issues with his family.

BLITZER: And we, obviously, don't know what he was doing all those months last year --

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: When he was in Jordan, with whom he met, stuff like that.

All right, Evan, thanks very much.

Let's get some more on these late-breaking developments. Andy Berke is the mayor of Chattanooga. He's joining us now.

Mr. Mayor, thanks very much for joining us.

What can you tell us about these late-breaking revelations that Mohammad Abdulazeez, who was a resident of your beautiful community, actually was motivated by jihad, if you will, that he may have been inspired by these terrorist groups?

MAYOR ANDY BERKE, CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE: Well, while I can't go into much about the specifics of the investigation, what I can tell you is that we have a lot of federal personnel who are here. They are looking at every possible angle. When I talk to them and here what they're doing, I feel confident that wherever the trail leads, they're going to find the end of the trail and I think that should give everybody in our community a lot of comfort.

BLITZER: Are you being briefed by federal, state, local law enforcement about the course of the investigation?

BERKE: Our people work hand in hand with the FBI and the ATF. The Chattanooga Police Department is devoting all of the resources necessary to assist them and then they do keep me in the loop as to what's going on.

BLITZER: So this notion that he was maybe inspired by Anwar al-Awlaki, he was the American-born al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula operative who was killed in a U.S. drone strike, as you know, has that been confirmed to you personally?

BERKE: Well, I really am not going to go into the details. I think that's for the FBI really to release. What -- what I can say again is that, for us, we -- we want to know every answer. This has been something that has torn at the very fabric of our community and we're interested in making sure that anybody involved is brought to justice.

BLITZER: Have you been briefed on what he was going those six or seven months last year when he was in Jordan? BERKE: Well, again, I'm not going to go into the specifics of the

investigation. I really don't believe that's my place. What we try to do is to make sure that anything that the FBI needs, we supply it to them. And, obviously, the investigation goes far beyond the borders of the city limits.

BLITZER: I assume you've strengthened security at those military facilities in Chattanooga, where recruiting centers or naval facilities, right?

BERKE: Yes, we have. As a matter of fact, I was at the Army Recruiting Center this morning. We were talking to the individuals who work there and their families. These are people who connect us to our Army and certainly whether they were there at the minute of the attack or not, all of them are feeling the effects of it. But they're coming in, they're continuing to do their job and, you know, we have people there, you know, constantly to make sure that they're safe.

[13:25:07] BLITZER: Mr. Mayor, thanks very much for joining us. Good luck to all the folks of Chattanooga.

BERKE: Thank you.

BLITZER: There's another development. The American flag on top of the White House, as well as on top of the U.S. Capitol, now at half-staff. President Obama ordered the flags lowered there at the White House and at public buildings indeed across the country to honor the five service members killed in the Chattanooga shootings. Four U.S. Marines, one U.S. Sailor died in last week's attack. Earlier the president addressed Veterans of Foreign Wars at the annual convention in Pittsburgh and he praised those U.S. military personnel for their sacrifice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We honor our five service members killed so senselessly in Chattanooga. We are grateful for the courageous police who stopped the rampage and saved lives. And we draw strength from yet another American community that has come together with an unmistakable message to those who would try to do us harm. We will not give into fear. You cannot divide Americans. You can never change our way of life or the values of freedom and diversity that make us Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, who's joining us from the White House right now.

The president had been under criticism as you know these past couple days for not immediately ordering that flags fly at half-staff. The House speaker, John Boehner, earlier, he announced that the flag atop the U.S. Capitol would be lowered, would fly at half-staff. And now at the -- at the speech the president just gave, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, he made a similar announcement about the flag flying at half- staff at the White House and other federal buildings. There was pressure building on the White House to do so, I take it?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Wolf. And it was a straight sight earlier this morning. You know, you had the flag at full staff here at the White House, but yet over at the U.S. Capitol, House Speaker John Boehner and the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, had announced, this was hours ago, that they were lowering the flags at the U.S. Capitol.

And, Wolf, you know from covering Washington for a very long time, it is -- it is an odd site to see the U.S. Capitol and the White House out of sync with each other. We know that our Capitol Hill producer, Deirdre Walsh, she says that Boehner's office told the White House of their plans to lower the flag at the Capitol and the White House was aware of that and they basically instructed us to talk to the White House about what was going on with the flag here.

I will tell you, Wolf, over the last couple of days, this has been a question that has been submitted to the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest. My sense of it, Wolf, is that they were planning to do this all along, but were perhaps a little bit slow to getting to this point because they weren't definitively saying, no, we're not lowering the flags to half-staff.

But, obviously, Wolf, this steps on the White House message somewhat. The president went to Pittsburgh earlier this morning, as you know, to talk to the Veterans of Foreign Wars. He was there to talk about how the Obama administration was making strides in fixing the V.A., announcing this new program to help veterans deal with predatory lenders and then there's this flag controversy. Not only was the Capitol -- the speaker and the Senate majority leader putting pressure on the White House, you had people like Ted Cruz, even Donald Trump put out a statement saying that he was lowering the flags at his corporate facilities.

And so then finally we saw the White House issue this order. The president issuing the order at about -- about an hour ago saying the flags should be lowered to half-staff. But no question about it, it was strange for a few hours this morning to see the Capitol and the White House not in sync with one another on such a very sensitive issue.

BLITZER: Yes, I don't remember the last time that happened. Maybe it has happened in the past. I certainly don't remember that. All right, thanks very much, Jim Acosta.

Just moments ago, as our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world now know, Donald Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner right now, he gave out fellow Republican presidential candidate Senator Lindsey Graham's personal cell phone number in a public speech, basically releasing that personal cell phone number to the entire world. We're going to bring you the campaign -- the Lindsey Graham campaign's reaction to what's going on and a whole lot more. Stay with us.

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