Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Trump Threatens Third-Party Run; Trump Takes On Republican Rivals; Trump Takes Immigration Fight To Mexico Border; Sheriff Joe Arpaio On Border Issues; John Kerry Grilled On Capitol Hill; Major Debate In Two Weeks; Kerry to Sell Iran Nuclear Deal on the Hill; Race for the White House; Interview with Gov. John Kasic Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 23, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Jake Tapper in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, D.C., 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you are watching from around the world, thanks for joining us.

We begin with what could be a nightmare scenario for the Republican Party, Donald Trump, who surprised almost everyone with his lead in the polls among his fellow Republican candidates, is now threatening to run as a third party candidate if the RNC, the Republican National Committee, is unfair to him during the primary season.

He told "The Hill" newspaper, quote, "The RNC has not been supportive. They were always supportive when I was a contributor. I was their fair-haired boy. I'll have to see how I'm being treated by the Republicans. If they're not fair, that would be a factor."

Trump also did not mince words when it came to some of his rivals in the Republican presidential race. Here's what he told our own Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I get called all these horrible names by Lindsey Graham who I don't even know. I didn't start it with Lindsey Graham. I couldn't care less about Lindsey Graham. He's registered at, I think, zero in the polls. By Rick Perry, from Texas, who was up in my office a few years ago -- I just posted a picture of him shaking my hand looking for money and looking for support.

And he was -- you know, people will say, yes, I call it a hypocrite. But they're saying horrible things, like -- I don't even know these people, and they're saying these things. Now, am I supposed to, you know, just say, oh, it's OK for them to say -- one guy, I guess it was Lindsey Graham, called me a jackass. So, am I supposed to say, oh, it's OK if I'm called a jackass? I'm called a jackass. You have to fight back. The country has to fight back. Everyone is pushing our country around. We can't allow that, Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON 360: Is it presidential, though?

TRUMP: I think it's presidential for something like that. COOPER: To give out somebody's -- to give out a personal phone number (INAUDIBLE.)

TRUMP: Well, that was a long story. I mean, you have to see the whole story the way it morphed, OK. That was the whole story where he wanted to get on "Fox and Friends," and he called me up out of the blue. I never met the guy. He wanted to come in for campaign contributions. He gave me (INAUDIBLE.)

And then he starts hitting me years later, and I happened to have this crazy phone number and I held it up. I said, this guy was over here -- and actually, as you probably know, the room was packed. It was standing room only. In fact, they had other theaters. There was overflow crowds. They had all sorts of closed circuit television into other rooms. The place went wild. We all had a good time.

ANDERSON: But is that presidential?

TRUMP: I think so. I think it's fine.

ANDERSON: In fact, when you get president -- when you're president, if it were somebody in Congress, you would give out a Congressman's personal phone number?

TRUMP: I was hit by somebody unfairly. I was called names by somebody. So, he was up -- he was somebody that's hitting me saying what a bad guy I am, was up in my office asking for money and asking if I can get him on television (INAUDIBLE.)

ANDERSON: But when you're -- if you're president of the United States, you're going to be hit by half the country that you're probably not going to like.

TRUMP: That's true. I -- if it's true --

ANDERSON: Are you going to call them dumb and stupid?

TRUMP: No, I think it's a little bit different. Right now, I'm trying to do something to make the country great again.

ANDERSON: So, as president --

TRUMP: Politicians will never make this country great again. Now, --

ANDERSON: As president, you would change your tone?

TRUMP: Oh, I think so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN's Dana Bash. She's live in Laredo, Texas where Mr. Trump will be touring the U.S.-Mexico border later today to talk about the issue of immigration -- illegal immigration that he's made a focus on in this campaign.

More on that in a moment. But first, Dana, explain to our viewers why a Trump third-party run would have so many Republican officials stay -- you know, unable to sleep at night.

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, just because of history. In 1992, there was a wealthy third party candidate named Ross Perot, and he effectively took the keys or made sure that the keys would not stay in George H. W. Bush's hands, and Bill Clinton ended up winning the White House.

Now, they're actually -- there's data to back up Republican jitters and I'll show it to you. First of all, if there's just a two-way race, a head-to-head race between Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, just for example, it would be 50 to 44. Look what happens if Donald Trump is in the mix as an independent candidate. Hillary Clinton, she takes a little bit of a hit, four-point hit, 46 percent. But Jeb Bush get -- takes a 14-point hit, goes down to 30 and Trump gets 20. So, that is a perfect example.

And this, I should say, is an ABC News "Washington Post" poll as of this last week. A perfect example of why Republicans are nervous. And so, they have been doing this kind of private kabuki dance trying to figure out how far they can push Donald Trump and distance themselves from Trump on some pretty controversial comments that he's made. But not push him so hard that they push him right out of the party.

TAPPER: Right, they are supposed to be neutral arbiters. Of course, Trump not happy when the RNC issued a statement after Trump went after John McCain's war record.

BASH: Exactly.

TAPPER: The RNC saying there is no place in the party or the country for somebody to make comments like that.

Let's talk now about Trump's trips to the border. What can we expect when he lands? We're expecting him to land just about an hour from now.

[13:05:04] BASH: Well, besides a lot of wind, we can expect he is going to come here and he is going to, actually, you know, try to turn the conversation back to where he wants it, Jake. And where he wants it is on his position on illegal immigration. He is very fond of saying he inserted that topic back into the conversation within the Republican primary nominating process to the point where, you know, a lot of Republicans aren't comfortable which is why we had that whole conversation about a third-party run.

But, you know, he believes this is where he is most resonant with a lot of members of the Republican Party. Those who are looking for somebody to continue the conversation about being tough on illegal immigration. He is going to go to the border. He is going to stand with some border agents and he is going to kind of amplify the message that we've heard from New York, from South Carolina, from Iowa and elsewhere, just with the backdrop of the U.S.-Mexican border -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Dana Bash at the border there in Laredo, Texas. Thank you so much. A local union of border patrol agents was slated to host Trump's visit to the U.S.-Mexico border. This morning, that local union backed out, saying, quote, "After careful consideration of all of the factors involved in this event, it has been decided by Local 2455 to pull out of all events involving Donald Trump."

Trump's campaign responded saying, quote, "The National Border Patrol Council, Local 2455 in Laredo, Texas, invited Donald Trump to be their guest. Then, they were totally silenced directly from superiors in Washington. Despite the great danger, Mr. Trump is traveling to Texas to proceed with the visit to the border."

Joining me now, Maricopa County, Arizona sheriff and Donald Trump supporter, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Sheriff Joe, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. You deal with the border patrol all the time. Do you know why that local border patrol union pulled out of today's event?

JOE ARPAIO, SHERIFF, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Well, I was surprised to hear that they were going to be there. I think politics is involved. Border patrol worked for Homeland Security and I have a feeling that they were told not to participate. Let's see if Hillary comes down there whether she'll be welcome by the border patrol who I love. It's a great organization. But I smell politics in this whole situation.

TAPPER: We should note that you're not exactly a disinterested player in this debate over illegal immigration and, in fact, in the push and pull between state and local affiliates and national and local. The Department of Justice has accused you and your deputies of racially profiling Latinos. They charged that jail officials refer to them as, quote, "wetbacks" and, quote, "stupid Mexicans." The Justice Department also said that in a book you voiced, quote, "bias opinion of the Latino and Latino culture." I want to give you an opportunity to comment here about this case and these accusations.

ARPAIO: Which I'm not going to do. It's still in the court system. We do not racial profile. That's as far as I'm going. If you want to talk about my 15 years as a top federal drug enforcement official in Mexico City, Texas, Arizona, in 23 years as the elected sheriff, I think I proved a point that I know what I'm doing. So, I'm going to avoid, Jake, that question right now because it's not appropriate when you're in court.

TAPPER: All right, Mr. Trump has seemed to suggest that the Mexican government is deliberately sending drug dealers and rapists into the United States and that that element constitutes most of who is crossing the border illegally. Now, according to polls, most Americans and most Republicans do not see it that way. They say most of the undocumented workers are coming here for a better life. You, obviously, have a unique perspective. What is your take?

ARPAIO: No, I work closely with the Mexican government, the president, in my other job that I mentioned. No -- but, you know, people come here to work but you don't violate the law. If you come into this country, you should be held accountable. Most of the people that live in Mexico are good people. When you say that they encourage, I don't know. I think they give pamphlets out before they cross the border, the Mexican officials, on how to take care of yourself when you're in the desert to survive. I can go on and on.

But maybe we should crack down on the situation in Mexico before the drugs -- everybody forgets the drug traffic which is very interesting why we talk about illegal immigration. But crack down. And, like, when I worked in Mexico City in Mexico, we worked with the Army. I was out there on the street with the Army, my agents. Let's get the U.S. Army working bilateral with the Mexican government to clean up the mess on that side of the border.

[13:10:08] TAPPER: We hear so much about the corruption within the Mexican government, the corruption within law enforcement in Mexico. How difficult does that make cooperation across the border?

ARPAIO: I don't know. When I was there, I worked on big international investigations, there were not jeopardized. And, by the way, I think we had a little corruption in the United States of America, unfortunately. So, they do have a problem in Mexico with corruption. I admit that. But you don't surrender. You don't always blame corruption as a reason we're not doing anything in Mexico. Where is the secretary of state? Where are all of these senators? Do you ever see them go to Mexico? They go all over the world, but they never go to Mexico which is a critical country for drugs and illegal immigration.

So, I don't know. Secretary of states are very critical. And how many times do they go to Mexico? How many times does the president go to Mexico? He should spend a little more time in Mexico.

TAPPER: I don't have the count. I know he's been there at least two or three times. But I take the point.

ARPAIO: Yes, it's two or three times in seven years? That's a disgrace. It's a critical --

TAPPER: You supported --

ARPAIO: -- country.

TAPPER: -- you supported Governor Rick Perry last presidential election cycle. Perry is now calling Trump a, quote, "cancer on conservatism and you are supporting Trump over Perry. Why?

ARPAIO: Now, wait a minute. I never endorsed Trump. Where are you getting that from?

TAPPER: Oh, I thought that you --

ARPAIO: I introduced him, the Republican Party. No, no, let's get this straight. I haven't endorsed anyone running for president yet.

TAPPER: OK, thanks for clarifying that. I was under a different impression. Let me ask you, in addition to that, something else that you and Donald Trump have in common, in addition to making the issue of illegal immigration a real focus is that you both trafficked in this rather preposterous notion that President Obama was not born in the United States and that he may have forged his birth certificate that he released. Why would you risk your credibility on issues that you care about, like illegal immigration, like law enforcement, by getting involved in this nonsense?

ARPAIO: You know -- you know, I'm -- what do you mean risk? I'm the chief law enforcement officer elected by the people. I have the right to investigate and speak out. So, you -- I'm not talking about where he came from. I don't care where he came from. We're working on a fraudulent, forged, government document. That's what we are doing.

TAPPER: You're maintaining -- that the birth certificate the president of the United States revealed and released to the public, you're maintaining that is fraudulent?

ARPAIO: That's right.

TAPPER: Is there anyone, any credible law enforcement person outside of you and your organization, your -- and your contractors, who has any agreement with you on this?

ARPAIO: No, they haven't looked at it. What, are you kidding? I'm probably the only law enforcement official that's looked into it. Nobody looks into it. They shy away from it.

TAPPER: Because the president was born in Hawaii.

ARPAIO: I don't care where he was born. I'm talking about a fraudulent government document, a birth certificate. That's all I'm concerned with. And that seems to be in violation of the law.

TAPPER: And you say that because there are glitches in some of the printing, is that right?

ARPAIO: I'm not going to get into all the technical details. I have a Smith Corona typewriter. I don't have a computer. But I have people that look into it. And I've been around a long time. I'm not stupid enough to even talk to you about it if I even think there was a lot of smoke and fire there.

TAPPER: All right. We appreciate your time. Sheriff Arpaio, thank you so much.

Still ahead, secretary of state, --

ARPAIO: Thanks.

TAPPER: -- John Kerry, grilled on Capitol Hill. His warning to senators if the U.S. rejects a nuclear deal with Iran. Plus, one-on- one with Ohio Governor John Kasich. He just joined a very crowded presidential race. How he plans to set himself apart.

Plus, the pressure to raise his poll numbers before a major debate two weeks from today that will only include the top 10 Republicans. Stay tuned. [13:14:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:35] TAPPER: Welcome back.

You're looking at live pictures of the procession to take Chattanooga shooting victim Marine Lance Corporal Skip Wells, taking him to his final resting place, home in Marietta, Georgia. Wells' body arrived a short time ago at Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. The 21- year-old was one of four Marines killed when a gunman opened fire on two military sites in Chattanooga, Tennessee, a week ago today. A Sailor injured in the attacks later died of his wounds.

A motorcade of several area police agencies is escorting Wells' body to a funeral home in Kennesaw, Georgia, that's north of Atlanta. The city of Marietta and its police and fire departments are coordinating a public welcome as Wells' remains are brought home. Wells will be buried on Sunday.

There is no fantasy alternative to the Iran deal, the words of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He's trying to sell the plan to Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We set out to dismantle their ability to be able to build a nuclear weapon, and we've achieved that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Global affairs correspondent Elise Labott joins us now.

Elise, this is the start of the 60-day period that lawmakers have to review the deal according to the law that President Obama passed. How is it going? As bad as it looks?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Not going so well. I mean there was a warm welcome for Secretary Kerry by the public when he limped in on crutches, everyone saying, thank you, thank you, John Kerry. But as soon as he sat down, it was pretty clear that the lawmakers weren't buying what John Kerry was selling in terms of this defense of the deal. He called it, you know, some of the -- saying that there was no viable alternative to what the Republican lawmakers were talking about, calling it a unicorn fantasy, as you see.

[13:20] And, you know, Jake, the presidential hopefuls, some of them on the committee, for instance Marco Rubio, warning that this deal is only as good as this president, and that perhaps the next president, i.e. him, might be able to undo it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We will coordinate in every possible way with Israel with respect to Israel's concern --

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: So if Israel conducts a cyber-attack against the Iranian nuclear program --

KERRY: Well, that --

RUBIO: Aare we obligated to help them defend themselves against the Israeli cyber-attack?

KERRY: No, I assure you -- no, I assure you that we will be coordinating very, very closely with Israel, as we do on every aspect of Israel's security and --

RUBIO: Well, that's not how I read this.

KERRY: Well, I don't see any way --

RUBIO: I don't see --

KERRY: I don't see any way possible that we will be in conflict with Israel with respect to what we might want to do there. And I think we just have to wait until we get to that point. But I do think, senator, you know, I listened to a long list of your objections here about it, but there's no alternative that you or anybody else has proposed as to what you --

RUBIO: I sure have, Secretary Kerry. I have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I know Marco Rubio would -- is objecting to that and he has laid out what he thinks the alternative should be --

LABOTT: Right.

TAPPER: Which is tougher sanctions, force Iran to do more.

LABOTT: Right.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about Israel because it has not escaped notice that President Obama keeps on going out there and talking about lobbyists. Don't listen to the lobbyists.

LABOTT: Right.

TAPPER: He's talking about pro-Israel group lobbyists.

LABOTT: Talking about Israel and pro-Israel groups like APAC. Secretary Kerry was referring to some TV ads and a lot of these groups, APAC, The Israel Project, have these ads on television warning against what would happen with the Iran deal. Israel is vociferously lobbying behind the scenes. The Israeli ambassador has met upwards of 40 members of Congress. And Prime Minister Netanyahu, as you saw when he came to give his famous speech before lawmakers, that there's a lot of support and what the Israelis are trying to do is they realize that most of the Republicans will reject this deal, now they're trying to pick off some of the Democrats so they can have a veto-proof majority.

TAPPER: Right. It's not going to pass. I mean the bill against it is going to fail -- or the bill against the deal is going to pass.

LABOTT: Right. Right.

TAPPER: They're just trying to preserve a veto.

LABOTT: That's right.

TAPPER: That's not a good starting point.

LABOTT: No.

TAPPER: Elise Labott, thank you so much.

Just ahead, he's the 16th major candidate to join the Republican race for president. So how does Ohio Governor John Kasich stand out in such a crowded field? We will ask him. He'll join us live when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:10] TAPPER: Welcome back.

Ohio Governor John Kasich is wrapping up a three-day campaign swing through New Hampshire. Then it is off to lunch with Mitt Romney. Kasich kicked off his bid for the Republican presidential nomination Tuesday at Ohio State University, his alma mater. It is a crowded Republican field. Kasich is the 16th GOP candidate to get into the race. Governor Kasich joins us now live from Wolfeboro in the great granite state of New Hampshire.

Governor Kasich, thanks for being with us. God to see you again.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: You're off to have lunch with Mitt Romney after this interview. Let me ask you, you're currently at 2 percent in the polls. Not in the top 10, which you'll need to be to be in the first debate and the all-important second debate with me at the Reagan Library in September. How are you planning to move up?

KASICH: Well, Jake, you know, (INAUDIBLE) kind of worry about polls. I was taking care of Ohio. I wasn't trying to go around the country and take care of myself. But we're having a good announcement. We're having good trips. And we'll see what happens. I'm not so much in the process. I'll tell you, we've been having a lot of town hall meetings here. They've been well attended. And we're getting a lot of people to sign up. So we'll see what happens, Jake. I don't worry about all of that stuff. I do -- I am excited about being able to be with you, though. That's going to be great.

TAPPER: In an interview with ABC News on Tuesday you said, quote, "if you're poor, if you're black, if you're brown, if you're struggling, we care about you and we're going to work to make sure you're included in the American dream. Unity is such a big part right now." This is part of your pitch, expanding the Republican tent. How do you go attract -- how do you go about attracting Latino and black voters who traditionally, in larger numbers, have supported Democrats?

KASICH: Yes. Well, as you know, Jake, I received 26 percent of the African-American vote in Ohio because we are sincere about the fact that everybody has to feel a part of everything, so there are things that we have done, from criminal justice reform, to the ability to set some of our state contracts aside to give them a chance to build entrepreneurship. It really is about message, it's about reaching out, and it's also about activity and action. So, you know, I think it's critical, Jake, that we, first of all, have strong economic growth, but then we need to make sure that people don't think that that's an end unto itself. It needs to be a means to an end and everybody has to feel lifted, and that includes, of course also the rural poor. So, I mean, our -- the beauty of America is the American dream. Everybody can rise. Everybody can do well. And I'm a believer in it and I've always operated that way.

TAPPER: Abby Huntsman, the daughter of former Utah governor and failed 2012 Republican candidate Jon Huntsman, tweeted the other day, "Kasich's rollout reminds me so much of my dad's four years ago. Same team, same timing, similar strategy. Hope it ends better for him." How do you avoid becoming the 2016 Jon Huntsman?

[13:30:00] KASICH: Well, look, I think, you know, Jake, I have the most unique resume with both national security experience and the ability to balance the federal budget. I was one of the chief architects when we did it.