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John Kasich Joins Crowded Republican Bid for President; FBI Director's Warning about ISIS: Hillary Clinton: Yes, Black Lives Matter; Trump Comments on Religion. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired July 23, 2015 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: How do you avoid becoming the 2016 Jon Huntsman?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHN KASICH, (R), OHIO GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, I think, Jake, I have the most unique resume with both national security experience and the ability to balance the federal budget. I was one of the chief architects when we did it. An executive in a big state like Ohio where we've had a significant economic turnaround and a decisive victory in a state like Ohio. No one goes to the White House unless they go through Ohio.
And, Jake, the other thing is people want to ask me, well, how do you stand out? And I think you know, Jake, from the years you've known me, my problem has never been standing out. Sometimes it's been standing out too much. It's going to be me. The proof is in the pudding. You come up here to New Hampshire, come to the town halls and you'll see what's happening on the grounds. We'll see. We'll do that. We'll do that.
TAPPER: Speaking of standing out, let it be known I asked three questions before I brought up the name of Donald Trump. But he is number one in polls right now. He's causing a lot of stress among party leaders for his comments about John McCain's war heroism, his comments about Mexicans. Do you think he's hurting the Republican Party brand?
KASICH: I don't worry about the Republican Party brand right now, Jake. I mean, the fact is whoever the nominee is is going to carry that message. I hope it's one that's positive and of inclusion. What I'm most focused on are the number of days I have left to get out here, get out, get around, do the town halls, have people see me and not only here but, of course, in South Carolina, Iowa and Michigan. I don't have time to waste thinking about what the heck is going on with everybody else. I know what my brand is. I know what my record is. I think it's pretty good.
TAPPER: Let's talk about the economy. You had a unique perspective on the economic meltdown because you were an executive at Lehman Brothers when it collapsed. In the past you've said you learned a lot about how America works from that experience. A lot of people lost their job, life savings when the bank went belly up because of bad bets by those in charge. What did you learn there that would help the average American? What did you learn there that would help avoid a future problem, a future economic crisis?
KASICH: Right. Well, first of all, Jake, I'm thrilled that I had the opportunity to be at Lehman Brothers because I got to travel the country. I was an investment banker, not whatever an executive means. I traveled around the country and met with entrepreneurs. I spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. I worked with the steel industry. I worked with financial services companies, with banks. I mean, I learned how the economy works. And because of that, I took that knowledge to Ohio and we went from an $8 billion hole to a $2 billion surplus, a $350,000 person job loss to 350,000 job gain, and $5 billion in tax cuts. I kind of know what I'm doing in this area. I think it's important that we review everything including the ability to give people these balloon loans where they don't play any principal up front. There are things that can be put in place. We don't want to strangle the regional banks, the local banks who have to work with you and me in order to be successful. But the Lehman Brothers experience taught me an awful lot about how CEOs and job creators think, and I put it to work. And I'm sure glad I was there.
TAPPER: I think I hear the police are about to arrest John Weaver (ph).
That's all the time I have.
Thank you so much, Governor.
(LAUGHTER)
KASICH: Get Weaver (ph). You know he's hanging here on the porch. What are you asking me? I'll see you, Jake.
TAPPER: There is an ABP out.
KASICH: God bless you.
TAPPER: Thanks, Governor.
KASICH: Thank you.
TAPPER: For the latest on the race to the White House head over to CNN.politics.com, the number-one political website in the country.
The director of the FBI is speaking out about what keeps him up at night. Still ahead, James Comey's one-on-one interview with Wolf Blitzer. What he says is the biggest threat to the U.S. next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:37:53] TAPPER: ISIS is not your parent's al Qaeda, that quote from FBI Director James Comey in a revealing one-on-one interview with our Wolf Blitzer. Comey was discussing bigger threats to the U.S., in particular ISIS. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: The threat that ISIL presents, poses to the United States is different in kind and type and degree than al Qaeda. ISIL is not your parents' al Qaeda. It's a very different model. And by virtue of that model, it's currently the threat we're worrying about in the homeland most of all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The biggest threat in the homeland.
Let's talk about this now via Skype from Irvine, California, CNN intelligence and security analyst and former CIA operative, Bob Baer; and from New York, former FBI special agent and former Navy SEAL, Jonathan Gilliam.
Gentlemen, thanks so much pour being here.
Bob, is the FBI director right? Is ISIS a greater threat to the U.S. than al Qaeda?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, Jake. I've been talking to the FBI field agents that are out there working this problem, and this is what scares them most is people inspired by the Islamic State, lone wolves, possibly the guy in Chattanooga. And these people have learned recently to stay off the phones, stay off the Internet. They've been reading Snowden. They know they're vulnerable. I totally agree with him. These guys are a real threat.
TAPPER: What do you mean, Bob, they're reading Snowden, just the idea that cell phones are being monitored?
BAER: It's a reminder that algorithms can tie numbers together, that we're on social media, the FBI is. They're on twitter. They're watching these people. They're watching for people buying tickets to Syria, for instance. At that point the FBI can arrest them if they take one overt act. So what they've come to understand is very clear is that if they stay off the Internet and they stay off social media in particular, they can get people to act in this country and not come to the notice of the FBI and the FBI's hand are very much tied. A needle in a haystack. How do you find these people?
[13:40:09]TAPPER: Jonathan, Wolf also talked with director Comey about what let Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez and what led him to carry out the Chattanooga attack. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez, the killer of these four Marines, the one sailor, he was not inspired by ISIS or ISIL, was he?
COMEY: We're still combing through his entire life including his electronic media to understand who was he communicating with.
BLITZER: The assumption he was inspired like al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, Anwar al Awlaki, the American-born cleric who was killed in a U.S. drone strike back in 2011, but whose messages are still out there, right? COMEY: The messages are still very much out there. That's a
dimension to the threat we haven't taken our eye off of. There are those motivated by the poison that bounces around the Internet. We're not sure yet with Abdulazeez. We're still combing through his life.
BLITZER: He spent time with his uncle who is now under arrest by the Jordanian authorities. The FBI is there in Jordan right now. There's obviously an FBI presence. You've sent over experts to find out what was going on during those seven months, right?
COMEY: Correct. That's part of combing through his life to understand what happened in Jordan, who influenced him, who did he meet, what did he consume, that sort of thing, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, Jonathan, what's your take on this? Is it generally that even if Abdulazeez was not inspired by is but rather by al Awlaki, al Qaeda in Yemen, it still points to what a nearly impossible task it is to prevent lone-wolf attacks?
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT & FORMER NAVY SEAL: One of the biggest mistakes we're making, Jake, we are concentrating -- which we have to in some cases -- we're concentrating on these different groups. We're looking at al Qaeda and Yemen, al Qaeda overall. We're looking at ISIS, ISIS in Iraq. The reality is this is fundamental Islam. It is the thread that needles all these things together and really, when it comes to home grown operatives, it is important to see where the radicalization came from, but overall you can 100 percent determine that it came from the study of fundamental Islam. That is the thing that overall globally is on the rise and growing faster than we can get a handle on.
TAPPER: All right. Thank you both.
You can watch more of Wolf's interview with FBI Director James Comey on "The Situation Room" today at 5: 00 eastern here on CNN.
Still ahead, Hillary Clinton sounding off on a topic that has tripped up her competitors in the past. Her message when asked about racism and inequality in America and what that could mean for her campaign going forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:47:15] TAPPER: Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton talking about racism and inequality during her campaign swing through South Carolina. Clinton embracing the slogan that has become a rallying cry for many protesters, "Black lives matter."
Senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, joins us with the details.
Jeff, set the scene. Hillary stumbled on this, black lives matter. She said all lives matter, which offended people. What changed? What happened? JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: She was in St.
Louis then and said that and she was criticized at the time. Today, in South Carolina, she was talking about the death of Sandra Bland and she said that if she used that as an opportunity to talk about racial injustice and the need for reform throughout that system and she talked very bluntly about this. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It's heartbreaking to read about another death of a young woman, Sandra Bland, in Texas. Another young African-American life cut short. And that's why I think it is essential that we all stand up and say loudly and clearly, yes, black lives matter.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: And by saying that directly, she is not going to be criticized because the issue here, Jake, is black lives matter, all lives matter. Some people believe that by saying all lives matter, you are diminishing the horrific situation that we've seen in the country through Ferguson and other things, so she is squarely on message with the black lives matter.
TAPPER: The idea being that, of course, white lives matter, black activists saying ours matters, too.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you.
ZELENY: Thank you.
TAPPER: Ahead, Donald Trump's straight talk on religion. What he told Anderson Cooper on his personal faith and whether Trump feels compelled to ask God for forgiveness.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:52:17] TAPPER: You're looking at live pictures out of Laredo, Texas, a very windy Laredo, Texas. Republican presidential candidate, Donald Trump, has just arrived in that border town. He's focusing on illegal immigration. His trip began with controversy when the union representing Border Patrol agents, who invited him to speak with them, said they were backing out of this tour. Trump will still tour the U.S./Mexico border with other agents and we'll bring his remarks. Mr. Trump, never short on words or controversy. So far, his comments about religion, we are told by attendees at one event, did not endear him to Republican base voters who are largely evangelical.
Listen to his answer about whether he had ever asked for forgiveness from God.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP GROUP: I'm not sure I have. I just go and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so. I think if I do something wrong, I think I just try and make it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: A lot of voters in that state, Iowa, in the first caucus state taking issue with that. Anderson Cooper trying to push him on this issue in his one-on-one interview with him. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, A.C. 360: The notion of forgiveness, that's not a central point for you?
TRUMP: I try not to make mistakes where I ask for forgiveness, for one thing. I don't like to make a lot of mistakes, so --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And the idea of repentance, is than important to you?
TRUMP: I think repenting is terrific. It's a good thing.
COOPER: But do you feel you need to?
TRUMP: If I make a mistake --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: If I make a mistake, yeah, I think it's great. But I try not to make mistakes. Why do I have to repent? Why do I have to ask for forgiveness if you're not making mistakes? I work hard. I'm an honorable person. I have thousands working for e. I've employed tens and thousands of people over the years.
COOPER: You give millions to charity.
TRUMP: I give -- I built the Vietnam Memorial in lower Manhattan.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Earlier, I spoke with Anderson about his interview and asked him about the fallout over Trump's remarks about religion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Rick Perry hit him about that yesterday, saying anybody who is too self-absorbed -- and I'm quoted -- arrogant to ask for forgiveness is exactly the kind of person John Adams prayed would not get into the White House. Among evangelical supporters, that's important and a central tenant of faith is the asking of forgiveness. That's why I was trying to get more out of Donald Trump about that yesterday. [13:55:00] TAPPER: I know. It's very interesting, especially for
the key early states. Iowa, South Carolina, where there are so many Christian conservatives who want to hear about a candidate's religious faith.
Donald Trump in your interview was quite critical of us, in the media. Let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I find that 60, 70 percent of the political media is really, really dishonest. And, you know, I tell the story, the American dream, I talk about the American dream in speeches. The American dream is dead but I'm going to make it bigger and better and stronger than ever before. The American dream is dead but I'm going to make it bigger and stronger than ever. The audience goes crazy. I come home and my wife says, darling, that was so bad. I said, what was so bad? She said what you said. And she said, the American dream is dead. Cut. One of the major networks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So his major criticisms is we were quoting him out of context, I guess?
COOPER: Yes. But what really set him off in the interview, I was asking him about a survey which shows that he and Hillary Clinton have high unfavorabilities among three swing states. I pointed out that he was doing well among Republican voters, leading the polls, but in this survey which had just come out, he has very high unfavorable. He was upset that I asked about a negative poll when there's so many positive polls.
TAPPER: Let's listen to what Trump says about what he wants to do as president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The other night in New York -- New York was shut down because Obama is here to go to a Broadway play. He's here to -- you know, when you're in the White House for a limited period of time, I'd be there all the time, working. Working.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I wouldn't even have time to comb my hair the way I comb it. I would probably just have to comb it back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: Once again, did Mr. Trump give any specifics in terms of what he would do in office beyond restoring the American dream, beyond bringing jobs back and beyond the not combing his hair? COOPER: Well, you know, he does not -- it's hard to pin him down on.
He has said he would be tougher on ISIS and everybody else. When you actually pin him down on what that means, and I talked to him extensively about this again yesterday for the second time, his policy towards ISIS is bomb the hell out of them in the oil fields in Iraq and in Syria because there's not many oil fields in Iraq that they have full control over. It's mostly in Syria. He says, send in oil, ExxonMobil, take the oil, send in troops to ring around.
TAPPER: You've heard the news about Trump hinting in "The Hill" newspaper, that he could possibly -- he left it out as a tantalizing possibility -- run as an Independent if he doesn't get the vote for Republican nomination and the party doesn't treat him well. Do you have a sense whether he will go through with that?
COOPER: He said the same thing the last time I talked to him and to others he's hinted that before. I think the newest part of that is kind of a more direct warning to the RNC and that's what makes it particularly interesting. I don't know what sort of support he believes the RNC should be giving him. The RNC is obviously not in the role of supporting individual candidates at this stage. That's not what they do.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Right. But you could argue, though, that they are coming out with a statement pointed at Donald Trump, defending John McCain, and saying there's no place in the party or the country for somebody who badmouths the war heroes, the veterans, but that that is stepping behind their role as mutual arbitrar.
COOPER: That's a good point. That's clearly what angered Donald Trump on it. I don't know. He will say the best chance to win is as a Republican. He says he's a conservative Republican. Clearly he has -- he believes Ross Perot cost the Republicans the race when Ross Perot was in the race. And so I think he knows how disruptive a third-party challenge would be, whether or not he is concerned about that, you know, we'll certainly basically have to wait and see.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Anderson, thank you so much.
Watch more of Anderson's interview with Donald Trump on "A.C. 360," tonight at 8:00 eastern.
That's it for me. I'll be back in a few hours at 4:00 eastern on "The Lead," but the news, of course, continues right now.
[14:00:05] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
