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Debris Could be MH370; Rand Paul Ad to Defund Planned Parenthood. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 30, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:34:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Updating the breaking news, new information suggesting that debris found off Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean could be from Malaysian flight 370. A source tells CNN a component number stenciled on the debris corresponds to schematic drawings of a Boeing 777 wing art. MH370 is the only Boeing 777 that crashed over water that is unaccounted for. Teams of investigators from Malaysia Airlines are headed to Reunion Island tomorrow and to Paris tonight.

The island where the debris washed up is French territory. The search area for MH370 in the Southern Indian Ocean, 2300 miles from where the debris washed up. An Australian official says if the debris is from the missing plane, it would indicate crews are searching in the right area. While it's looking more likely that this piece is, in fact, from MH370, the final determine must be made by investigators.

CNN's Tom Foreman uses our virtual studio to show us how investigators will make the final call.

[13:35:06] TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This piece of debris is about seven feet long, three to four feet wide and we are told by Boeing, it is consistent with what they would expect to find on a 777. Engineers looked at this and see elements that match up to things they build. It could come from this plane. If you roll it around, I can show you industry analysts say it would be from the backside of the left wing over here.

First match, it's the right type of thing to be from the Malaysia airplane. It's the right color, right condition. It's covered with barnacles. That suggests it could have been at sea for some 500 days. They have to look for identifiers, the serial numbers you find on a plane like this. This is from a seat cushion from another plane. If they find a serial number on the piece they found and it matches the Malaysia airplane, that's it, it will be proof the plane definitively crashed and there wasn't some other strange thing that happened to it. Doesn't answer the question of how it wound up where it was.

Remember, throughout this process, we have been talking about the search area being down at the end of a long flight where the plane ran out of fuel, then went into the water somewhere off the coast of Australia. The search areas have been over here. Why is this one piece way over there, some 2300 miles away? Well, could it have flown that direction? Could the theory be wrong and the line should be going straight to Reunion Island? Not likely.

Honestly, this part that you are looking at, that's where it would have run out of fuel. More likely, our analysts say what you should be looking at are the ocean currents. The idea that it went down where they thought it did and over time, it has slowly washed along the currents and pushed over here toward Reunion Island. That's why this is the spot where they found what may be, may be, the first physical piece of proof about what happened to Malaysia air flight.

BLITZER: Tom Foreman, thanks very, very much.

Let's no forget, 239 people were aboard that plane. 227 were passengers, 12 crew members, all missing since March of 2014.

By the way, that Boeing 777, there are about 1200 Boeing 777s flying around the world right now. That's why it's critically important to figure out what happened to that plane. Was there a mechanical problem that needs to be fixed in the other planes? Was there foul play? A lot to investigate. This investigation moving ahead. More on the breaking news coming up.

Also, we'll speak live with Senator Rand Paul, the Republican presidential candidate, on Capitol Hill. You see him right now. We'll take a quick break. My interview with Senator Paul when we come back.

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[13:42:12] BLITZER: Republican presidential candidate, Senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky, is out with a brand-new campaign ad that takes on Planned Parenthood and calls for it to be defunded by the federal government. Let's take a closer look at a portion of the ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Planned Parenthood takes over a half billion tax dollars every year. They perform abortions and sell baby body parts. Rand Paul is taking action. As pro life doctor, Rand Paul cared for premature babies to save their sight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in Senator Rand Paul. He's joining us live from Capitol Hill to talk about the new ad, some other campaign issues.

Senator, thank you for joining us.

Why do you want to defund Planned Parenthood? Because, as you know, according to Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards, the president of the organization, they serve 2.5 million people, a lot of poor people, a lot of poor women out there. They serve -- they test them for breast cancer screenings, cervical cancer, birth control. They point out 42 percent of services go toward testing, treating sexually transmitted diseases, 34 percent deal with contraception. Abortion services, their analysis, 3 percent. Tell us why you would defund, if you had your way, the entire organization. SEN. RAND PAUL, (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what's

disturbing is a doctor talking about selling body parts. What is disturbing is a doctor talking about using ultrasound to manipulate the baby, turn it around so it comes out feet first to preserve organs to sell and crush the baby's head. It's impossible not to picture in your mind what is going on with this. I'm a parent. One of the first images I saw of my children was an ultrasound of them in the womb. We were excited about that. It is being used, maybe illegally to try to harvest organs.

Everything else they do is done by community health centers, also. We fund 9,000 community health centers and there's only 600 to 700 Planned Parenthood centers. There are plenty of government centers that do everything Planned Parenthood says they do, but don't do abortions. They manipulate the baby to harvest organs. I know pro- choice people who are upset about this. Even Hillary Clinton, who is not sure when life begins, she's even disturbed by this. You have to realize, this is really disturbing a lot of people from all spectrums of life.

[13:45:04] BLITZER: Isn't there a way, Senator, to fix this one part of Planned Parenthood? We have all seen that disturbing video. Planned Parenthood says it was edited not accurately. They deny some of the major allegations against them. Why not try to fix the organization, from your perspective, and allow the women to get the services that they have relied on at these 800 clinics, Planned Parenthood clinics around the country.

PAUL: See, the thing is, we are doing that. We have doubled and tripled the number of funding for community health centers. There are plenty of places they can go. Planned Parenthood is completely unnecessary for women's health. You can go to any community health center. In fact, in my state, there are 65 community health centers for every one Planned Parenthood. There are plenty of places women can go to for free government-provided health care. There's no reason for the taxpayer to be involved in something so grizzly and ghastly that people from all walks of life are condemning this.

BLITZER: You want to see the entire organization, including all the good things, from your perspective, that they do, you want to see this organization disappear, if you had your way, but at least not get federal funding?

PAUL: What I would do, I would say to Planned Parenthood, show the videos around the country of people sorting through arms, legs and kidneys and ask people to contribute to your organization. It is free to get people to contribute to them. They can continue to do this. I'm guessing, when people see people sifting through body parts that someone is then going to sell. I mean it is so, just gruesome that I think they are going to have trouble voluntarily getting people.

BLITZER: Let's talk a little about key policy issues while I have a chance with you. Dana Bash had a chance to sit down with Donald Trump yesterday, spoke of his immigration plan. He's getting lot of buzz as you know. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TRUMP GROUP CEO: Number one, the first thing we do is get the bad ones out. We have a lot of bad dudes, as I say. You have a lot of really bad people here. They are in our prisons and clogging up our prisons. I want them to go back, and not only to Mexico, back to the country they are from and get then into their prison. Get the bad ones out.

Then, we have a law. Right? You are supposed to come in legally. I would get people out and have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they can be legal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You are on the record, as you well know, Senator, saying, "The 11 million who are already here, undocumented immigrants, are never going home, don't need to be sent home. I would incorporate them into society giving them work visas and making them taxpayers."

Would you allow those who are tax paying, law-abiding, all of that, eventually, to have a pathway to U.S. citizenship?

PAUL: I think what I would start with, first of all, is securing the border so we don't have illegal immigration. That has been needed 20 or 30 years. We had Republican and Democrat presidents refuse to secure the borders. You have to secure the border. Once the border is secure, if you are honest, not a criminal, here for the American dream, which I think the vast majority of people are, yes, we can find work visas for you.

But it still needs some scrutiny. For example, there's a grain of truth in what you are hearing from other folks in the sense that we have to do criminal background checks on everybody who came here illegally. Then we have to decide who are legitimate people seeking the American dream, legitimately want to work, and what we have to do is have a work visa program that works. The farmers in my state use the work visa program, but they tell me it is broken, cumbersome, and takes months to get the paperwork done. Certainly, we can figure out how to do it online. We can figure out how to get background checks, and find out who is in this country with good intentions.

But I don't foresee a time where there's going to be some sort of mass round up of 11 million people. I think what we need to do is figure out how to secure the border and get a good, legal, immigration system working again in our country.

BLITZER: And, eventually, they would have legal status, assuming it works out. Secure the border, get some legal status. But, eventually, assuming they are doing all the right things and they are working hard, would they be eligible for U.S. citizenship after a lengthy process?

PAUL: This was the big debate we had, you know, with the immigration bill and I ended up opposing it. Part of the reason is we created a new pathway to citizenship. I don't think there should be a new pathway to citizenship. Their children are becoming citizens. If you break the law coming in, your reward shouldn't be automatically granting something that is prized by people around the world, but I also think it's not the opposite.

It's somewhere in between. I don't think it's rounding you up and putting you in camps, but I also don't think it's saying, hey, here's a reward, be a citizen of the greatest country in the world after you broke the law. I think the real answer is, secure the border and let's stop this, once and for all, allowing mass interrogation without any kind of rules at the border. And so I do believe that we have to have an organized border and we haven't done a good job.

[13:50:28] BLITZER: Let's talk quickly -- because I only have a minute or two left -- the latest Quinnipiac University poll has Donald Trump, look at this, at 20 percent, Scott walker, 13, Jeb Bush, 10. You're down with six percent with a few others there. You see them. Why is he doing so well right now, Donald Trump?

PAUL: Television works, Wolf. If you would give some other candidates time from 8:00 in the morning until 8:00 at night, all day long for three weeks, I'm guessing other candidates might rise as well. For example, some people are hearing about one candidate all the time. Very few people know that I've offered a tax code that you can fill out your tax return on one page at 14.5 percent. If I had every network going gaga over that, I think we could get ours to rise as well. I think this is a temporary sort of loss of sense tea but we're going to come back to our senses and look for somebody serious at some point.

BLITZER: You think 20 percent who are supporting Donald Trump, Republicans, according to this latest poll, have a loss of sanity?

PAUL: No. I think what they are is hungry for someone who will tell the truth, who will say that Washington is broken and we really have to start over, have term limits, wash out the place, cleanse the place. Absolutely he's talking into that.

But we also have to have a serious discussion of how we're going to do it and simply saying that the Mexicans are going to pay for it, we're not going to pay the national debt by asking Americans to pay for it. OK? I'm the only one running for office that actually has a five-year plan to balance the budget. I'm ready to do the specific cuts to do it. I have a simple tax rate, one rate, 14.5 percent. I think that's a debate we're going to have to have. We'll start it next week, hopefully.

BLITZER: The debate is one week from today. I assume you're getting ready for that debate.

Senator, thank you for joining us.

PAUL: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky. He's a Republican presidential candidate.

Just ahead, lawmakers are beginning to share their views on the Iran nuclear deal. We'll speak with one Congressman and a former Iranian U.S. hostage in Iran. We'll get their take.

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BLITZER: The clock is ticking on the Iran nuclear deal. The Obama administration is pulling out all stops to bring the lawmakers on board. Secretary of State John Kerry has been testifying before various committees up on the Hill. President Obama is reaching out to a whole lot of folks.

I want to discuss what is going on with my next two guests. Joining us, Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee; and former deputy assistant secretary of state for Iran, John Limbert.

To both of you guys, thanks very much for joining us.

John, you have a unique perspective because you were among the Americans held hostage in Iran for 444 days, as a lot of us remember.

JOHN LIMBERT, FORMER IRANIAN U.S. HOSTAGE & FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR IRAN: Indeed. Thank you for remembering. It's been 36 years now.

BLITZER: Congressman, I want to talk to you about that as well.

But the latest, first of all, Congressman Kildee, your efforts to get Amir Hekmati, on of the Americans who is now being held in Iran, a former U.S. Marine, out of there. Is there anything going on, any movement, any hope for optimism?

[13:55:15] REP. DAN KILDEE, (D), MICHIGAN: I think in the space of the last few weeks there have been more discussions. We know that the administration has continued to press for their release. I've spoken to Secretary Kerry, met with the president last night at the White House to discuss this. I'm confident that the administration continues to press for their release and we have to be cautious but I have hope that we may be able to resolve this.

BLITZER: You're announcing today -- despite the fact that Amir Hekmati and other Americans are being held in Iran, you're announcing your support for the Iran nuclear deal?

KILDEE: I am. I maintain that we should keep the two questions separate. But in the final judgment, I don't see a path forward that's less treacherous than taking this deal. There are holes in every negotiation. This is the better path for us. And I actually think it has the value of being a more certain path for the Americans being held.

BLITZER: You're with the president on this one?

KILDEE: I am.

BLITZER: John, where do you stand, given your unique perspective on what's going on. You were one of the Americans held prisoner in Iran for 444 days? Give us your perspective on what is going on. LIMBERT: I agree with the Congressman. I would love to see Hekmati

and the other people be free and back with their families as soon as possible. These are hard issues. But the nuclear deal, that's the nuclear deal.

BLITZER: Right.

LIMBERT: And that's what it is. And we did not deliberately, did not mix these other issues.

BLITZER: Was that a mistake?

LIMBERT: No. In any negotiation, if you negotiate about everything, Wolf, you agree on nothing.

BLITZER: Because the argument has been made -- and you've heard it many times, Congressman -- that they are going to get tens and thousands of billions of dollars of sanctions relief flowing into their economy. The least they could have done is let these three Americans, maybe four -- Robert Levinson is still being held there as well -- to let these guys out.

KILDEE: Clearly, Iran should release the four. We should never exchange their freedom for either tens and billions of dollars or concessions in the nuclear negotiation. Thinking about what kind of behavior that incentivizes across the globe is unimaginable. So the onus is on Iran and if they ask for legitimacy on the global stage, they will release these Americans and soon.

BLITZER: John, you were held, one of the Americans, held for 444 days at the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Eventually, you were released. Do you believe the Iranians will release these four Americans?

LIMBERT: They will. But it's a process that plays out inside their own political system. It's very tough to read. This is not helping them at all. But there are elements within Iranian politics that simply don't care. And for their own reasons, are holding them.

BLITZER: The Revolutionary Guard, the --

LIMBERT: Some of the hard-line -- some of the --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Some of the fundamentalist?

LIPPER: Yes.

BLITZER: So you see a real split within Iran between the more moderate and less moderate?

LIMBERT: Very much so. This is a long-term battle. We were part of that whole process as well 36 years ago.

BLITZER: Back in 1979, 1980. A lot of us remember that. Your bottom line right now -- and I know you've been in touch with

Amir Hekmati's family. They live in your district. Maybe the Iranians will wise up and let these Americans go?

KILDEE: They should. They have to understand that continuing to hold these Americans is a liability to them. We should move forward on this agreement because I think it makes the world safer, but Iran needs to understand, if they really want to be legitimate in the world, they can't hold political prisoners and should take action right away.

BLITZER: Do you think this is going to pass, the president's Iran nuclear deal, in the House and Senate?

KILDEE: It's hard to say. It's hard to say. Most members are withholding judgment and going through a very deliberate process. My process was a bit accelerated because I've been involved in the Iran question for so long. I think the Democrats will primarily stand with the president and we'll be able to sustain a presidential veto.

BLITZER: Interesting you want this deal to go through.

And, John, you want the deal to go through as well.

Appreciate it very much, John Limbert, former deputy assistant secretary of state for Iran and other eastern issues as well. Is that right?

LIMBERT: That's right.

BLITZER: Just want to make sure. You've been a professor as well, right?

LIMBERT: Indeed.

BLITZER: Where are you teaching?

LIMBERT: At the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis.

BLITZER: U.S. Naval Academy.

LIMBERT: It's a lovely place.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Good luck to you.

Good luck with getting the Americans out of there.

KILDEE: Thank you.

BLITZER: And thank you very much.

The Iran hostage crisis, by the way, will be part of the episode tonight on "The Seventies: Terrorism at Home and Abroad," tonight on CNN at 9:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. You will want to watch "The Seventies" tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next.

For our viewers in North American, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

[14:00:12] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.