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Forum Provides Debate Prep For GOP Hopefuls; Donald Trump's Message About Passion; Advice From Jennifer Granholm; Trump's Phone Number Published Online; First Presidential Debate Thursday; Legionnaire;s Disease Claims Lives. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 04, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London and 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks so much for joining us.

Up first, Republican presidential contenders get a dress rehearsal ahead of this week's debate. The format was different and one big name was notably absent but last night's forum in New Hampshire gave the candidates a chance to take aim at Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration and to tackle issues like Social Security and illegal immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Those that have overstayed their visas, you go find them, you can pick them up and you send them back wherever they're from.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If they violate the law, they're going to have to be deported or put in prison.

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think this administration is serious about border security or serious about protecting working men and women.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, we need to increase the retirement age over a period of time. If you've done very well in this country, then we need you to not take a Social Security check.

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They try to divide us by gender, by race, by income, by geography. Look, we're all Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama recently referred to ISIS as the J.V. team.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has -- for two times has admitted that we don't have a strategy as it relates to ISIS. That's pretty amazing.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm the only Republican leading Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania and it's because I am different.

CARLY FLORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She has as well lied about her servers and the kinds of information she had on her server and why she kept everything on a single device.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm fluent in Clinton speak. You want know translate, Jack? When he says, Bill says, I didn't have sex with that woman, he did. When she tells us, trust me, you've got all the e-mails that you need, we haven't even scratched the surface.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: One of the more colorful moments of that forum there.

Joining us to talk more about it, and a preview of Thursday's debate, we have CNN Political Director David Chalian; we have former Republican presidential candidate and former Utah governor, Jon Huntsman; and former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm, she is the host of "THE WAR ROOM."

David, I want to start with you. Just tell us what you thought about Lindsey Graham bringing up the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's what's referred to as red meat, Brianna. I mean, when you are trying to get your name out there and get tried and true Republicans around to your cause, these primary voters in New Hampshire, there's nothing that works quite as well as bashing the Clintons, of course.

And so, bringing up Bill Clinton's past with Monica Lewinsky, the e- mail controversy with Hillary Clinton, that's what they want to hear. Actually, they want to hear that much more than they want to see Republican on Republican fighting. And last night's forum, which as you saw there, was one on one, not like what we'll see on Thursday with a full debate stage allowed for that kind of rhetoric to appeal to the crowd.

KEILAR: As you watched this forum, who did you think did really well? Who did you think struggled?

CHALIAN: I thought several of them did well. John Kasich, I would say, talking about balanced budget which is a really important sort of fiscal conservative issue in New Hampshire. That's something that New Hampshire Republicans really identify with and because he's sort of the last entrant into the field that was participating, I think this was a big moment for him of introduction that went well.

I also thought Chris Christie acquitted himself well. As you know, he's in a sort of New Hampshire or bust strategy, and he said he's like the uncle at Thanksgiving dinner. He's coming early and staying late. And I think that's how New Hampshire voters are going to get to know him because he's going to be spending a lot of time up there.

KEILAR: We all know that guy. I want to see what you think about this moment for Jeb Bush. He was talking about how to differentiate himself from his brother and from his father, a question that he was asked. Here was his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: My dad is probably the most perfect man alive so it's very hard for me to be critical of him. In fact, I got a t-shirt that says, at the Jeb swag store, that says, I'm the -- I'm the -- My dad is the greatest man alive. If you don't like it, I'll take you outside."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK, great that for us, Chalian.

CHALIAN: Well, I would not say Jeb Bush has a very good future as a joke teller, perhaps. He, clearly, was a little nervous there searching for some sort of punch line. That didn't quite work out as a moment but I don't think it was some sort of disastrous moment for him.

But I do think, Brianna, it raises the question that we have asked about Jeb Bush which is, remember, he's been off the stage for a while so I think he may have shown there a little rustiness in these kinds of public forums. It's different than just sort of to a small group of supporters on the campaign trail. And he does seem a little bit nervous in that kind of venue so it makes me sort of wonder what kind of style Jeb Bush will bring to the stage on Thursday night.

KEILAR: He did. And we'll be watching with you. David Chalian, CNN Political Director, thank you.

[13:05:01] I want to talk more about the Republican race, what we can expect during the primary debate with Jon Huntsman. He's a former presidential candidate. He's the former governor of Utah.

You know what it's like, Governor, to be on a stage like this. I wonder -- you know, you were at the point where you were one of the guys who was on the end of the line where you were trying to make a moment, capitalize on that, grow your numbers in the polls. As you look at someone like Chris Christie or John Kasich who is doing the same, what's your advice to them?

JON HUNTSMAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, my advice for the early primaries, both Iowa and New Hampshire, is you've got to show well in the debates, which is to say you've got to say things that really reflect who you are, what you believe in and what you've done, what your track record is. At the same time, you've got to be very good about building out that grass-roots foundation.

You've got to remember, we're talking about all the public stuff here, particularly with Trump in the race, it becomes a very high profile public spectacle. But the race is going to be won or lost based on the work that is done, largely invisible, at the grass-roots level, bringing on volunteers, convincing people to vote for you, hand shake by hand shake, ads placed in the local papers of Iowa and New Hampshire, and that's largely unseen. And you have to balance those two, a strong grass-roots game along with a clear-cut vision and a convincing presentation on the debate stage. KEILAR: The organization matters as much as these public appearances,

these debates.

HUNTSMAN: No question about it.

KEILAR: So, if you were on this stage and you are facing a Donald Trump and who -- anyone's guess, really, how he shows up on Thursday night, how would you prepare and how would you execute, depending on what you're facing?

HUNTSMAN: Far be it for me to give advice to any of these folks.

KEILAR: Just from your perspective. If you were facing this, how would you approach this?

HUNTSMAN: So, I think what you're beginning to see, as of last night, there's a clear difference between the governors in the group and the senators in the group. The senators have kind of pre-packaged soundbites, almost as if they're attending a committee hearing. The governors have a record that they're bringing to the table.

Trump has a very good record in business. He has a very good record as a showman. He's excellent in those categories. He doesn't have a record fixing things for people in states that really matter, whether it's education, whether it's social service, whether it's the economy. You've got some governors on the stage, and if I were one of them, and I was a governor, you bring to the table some convincing victories.

And it's how you package them, how you differentiate yourself from Trump which is the public spectacle and he does that remarkably well. But governors spring to the table something that is quite unique and it's going to be in huge demand in the 2016 election cycle because we're looking for problem solvers. We're looking for solutions to the basics like jobs and a balanced budget and entitlements. And that's clearly an area where a governor can really differentiate himself from the rest of the pack.

KEILAR: Differentiate yourself. But also, I've heard so many people say you need to harness some of this energy that Trump has been able to harness.

HUNTSMAN: No question about it.

KEILAR: Disaffected Republican base voters.

HUNTSMAN: You're right on.

KEILAR: From your perspective -- you are a more moderate Republican. You struggled in the primaries with something that we're seeing. I wonder -- well, I wonder if you think Jeb Bush is struggling with this, really tapping into this sort of disaffected Republican base voter that is going to be so key during this primary battle.

HUNTSMAN: Two-thirds of the American public think that the nation is on the wrong track, which means you've got to amp it up a little bit. This is not a regular election cycle. We're making history. We've never seen this kind of opening before politically. Not for the Republican Party. I think not for the issues that are -- that are salient and important.

So, somebody like Governor Bush and the rest of them, they've got to find their message, their sweet spot. And they've got to deliver with passion. They've got to articulate it in a way that amps it up a little bit.

And I think Don Trump is teaching everybody that message about passion. You've got to be authentic. The one thing that Trump has is authenticity. For all of his faults and everything that people point out as criticism, he's authentic. And people see him as a job creator. People see him as somebody who believes in what he's saying. That's the message loud and clear to the governors and the others in the race. Amp up your message, make it matter, deliver it in the ways that capture people's imagination.

KEILAR: It's a lesson to be learned from the major front-runner, at this point. Governor huntsman, really appreciate it.

HUNTSMAN: Great to be with you, Brianna, thank you.

KEILAR: And joining us with more perspective on the debate and the primary battle, we have former Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm. Let's talk about Donald Trump, governor. He was really the elephant in the room who wasn't actually there at this forum. It's fascinating, some people may not recall, I know you sure do, that you were the stand in for Sarah Palin during vice president Joe Biden's 2008 debate prep.

So, what advice would you give to these other candidates in how to deal with someone like Donald Trump who certainly has some appeal but maybe he doesn't have certain areas of accomplishment that they don't, and also he's such a big personality.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Now, well, first of all, every candidate only has one minute to answer any question and then 30 seconds in rebuttal. So, whatever you say, you better be practicing your language so that it is crisp and clear.

[13:10:07} So, you answer the question. You site something you've done to validate yourself. And then, you pivot and create a memorable moment, whether it's a zinger or some kind of attack on somebody else.

Now, if you're Donald Trump, you are -- everybody expects you to come in with bombast. What if he surprises people? If I were on his team, which I'm not, but if I were, I would say, how do we enlarge the base of people and not just sit on this lead but grow it? I would want to go in and surprise people by being substantive and thoughtful and maybe more humor is always good. If I'm on the other side, if I'm Jeb Bush, I do not want this guy to take my followers away.

So, I want, perhaps with humor, to goad him a little to be more like Trump and that might turn off the voters who have a negative opinion of him of which, by the way, there still is a huge number. So, he's got a lot of work to do. So, you might want to, you know, poke the bear if you are on the other side. But if you're Donald, you might want to surprise people.

But he tells people, Brianna, that he's not practicing? I think that's total B.S. That guy is practicing. He is a showman and he's going to come in with some zingers and some lines and, hopefully for him, some policies so that he can establish his own bona fides.

KEILAR: Maybe he is managing those expectations. So, you say maybe poke --

GRANHOLM: For sure, for sure.

KEILAR: -- the bear. But Donald Trump has said, look, I'm not going to punch but I'm going to counterpunch.

GRANHOLM: Yes. Yes.

KEILAR: Can you imagine? How do you prepare for someone like that counterpunching at you?

GRANHOLM: At your, right. But if you poke him and he comes back at you in an over-the-top way, perhaps that makes your point that he is not fit to serve as commander-in-chief, that you don't want -- maybe what you want to do is to have people thinking about Donald Trump's finger on the button. Right? Do you want, really, somebody who is very irrational? Now, my guess is -- he is a showman, yes. But Trump is not going to come in and allow himself to be manipulated to look irrational and wild.

But who know -- who knows with this guy. Why everybody is going to be watching. Another thing, Brianna, I think everybody is going to be watching and hoping for this great, you know, sort of reality show drama. And I'm sure there'll be a few moments. But I guess -- my guess is that people might be a little bit disappointed because the moderators have to give somewhat equal time to all of the candidates. There's 10 of them on there. And as we saw last night with the New Hampshire debate, everybody just gets a little bit. So, it'll be -- it'll be an interesting night.

KEILAR: It sure will be and we'll be watching along with you. Governor Granholm, that you so much.

And Donald Trump, he's getting a taste of his own medicine. The presidential candidates phone number posted on the Internet for everyone to see. It's a move that comes roughly two weeks after Trump gave out Senator Lindsey Graham's number at a rally in South Carolina. Graham, you may recall, responded by releasing this.

That video has been seen millions of times online. It's created a lot of buzz for Graham. He's been trailing Trump in every poll. Coming up, who's behind the latest phone number stunt, plus Trump's somewhat surprising reaction, next.

[13:13:44]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:17:52] KEILAR: We'll find out later today which Republican presidential candidates make the cut for Thursday's prime time debate. The host network, Fox News, says only the top 10 candidates will get to take part. Donald Trump is a shoe-in. A new Fox News poll shows him with 26 percent support. Jeb Bush is the only other candidate in double digits at 15 percent. You have New Jersey governor Chris Christie and Ohio Governor John Kasich rounding out the top 10. These results mirror the latest CNN poll of polls. It's an average of the five most recent surveys.

I want to bring in CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, the host of CNN's "Reliable Sources."

So, Jeff, right now it looks like it's a real bummer here for the people who aren't going to make the cut. It looks like Rick Perry might not. How significant a setback is that for his campaign?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, it's certainly not a good thing if you're Rick Perry, particularly because he's been trying to make a centerpiece of his message going after Donald Trump by, you know, saying his message is not a conservative message. If he's not on the stage with the ability to do that, it certainly, you know, minimizes the audience that he'll have.

But, on the other hand, debates are not the strongest suit for Rick Perry. We certainly saw that in 2012 when he was running. He had that famous moment, the oops moment. But, look, he certainly thought he would be on this debate stage and wanted to be.

But I'm also not sure, if you're the top candidate or one of the top candidates in the other debate, the first debate that's happening at 5:00, you still have a chance to get your message out there. So he will be standing side by side with Lindsey Graham and Carly Fiorina and the others. So he'll still get his opportunity. But it sets the mold that he is not a tier-A candidate.

KEILAR: You're hearing, Brian, some of these criticisms about the rules that Fox is using to figure out who takes part in the debate. Give us a sense of some of these.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it's really become louder in recent days from both candidates, but also pollsters. Some pollsters who say this is not what our polls are meant to be used for. You know, these polls that we've been showing on screen, some of them have sample sizes of about 500 Republican voters. You know, people who are weighing in, in these polls. That's not a giant sample. And when you're talking about the difference between him having 1 or 1 percent support and having 3 or 4 percent support, that only comes down to a few people who are being phoned.

[13:20:17] But Fox is using an average of five different polls. They haven't said exactly which ones. They say they're not going to decide for sure until this 5:00 p.m. deadlines. But by now we have a pretty good sense of which polls they're going to be using and that is why it appears Rick Perry will be number 11, not in the top 10 on stage. You know, Fox had to do something. CNN has a debate next month. CNN

has to do something in the same situation. CNN's choice is a little bit different. Both tiers, the lower as the upper tier are both going to be in prime time. But, you know, in both of these cases, these networks had to do something to try to make it a manageable debate. I mean even with 10 podiums on the stage, that's going to be a lot to manage.

KEILAR: It is a crowded field, even with seven folks not on that main stage.

STELTER: Yes.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something a little different here. Donald Trump, he came under fire when he gave out Senator Graham's cell phone number during a campaign event. Well, now Gawker published one of Trump's old cell phone numbers yesterday and he turned it into a little bit of a campaign plug. Listen to his answering machine message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Hi, this is Donald Trump and I'm running for the presidency of the United States of America. With your help and support, together we can make America truly great again. Visit me on Twitter @realdonaldtrump and check out my campaign website at www.donaldtrump.com. Hope the see you on the campaign trail. We're going to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I don't know, Jeff, I'd say that's pretty savvy right there.

ZELENY: No doubt about it. I mean I think it just underscores the fact that he, of all candidates, is the most comfortable being a showman. He -- you know, if you think of the presidential campaign, certainly a debate and all these other things as a television show which, in some respects it is, Donald Trump has the most experience across the board, you know, trying to present himself and showcase himself.

And, Brianna, this is just the latest example of doing that. I'm not sure how many people are actually going to call, you know, his -- his cell phone up, but we're certainly talking about it and it's a clever way to sort of push back at what should have been a negative, I guess, is Gawker giving out his cell phone. It's very clever.

KEILAR: Yes, a clever gimmick there. Jeff Zeleny, Brian Stelter, thanks to both of you.

STELTER: Thanks.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And up next, the death toll is climbing after an outbreak of Legionnaires disease in New York. We'll be getting an update next on what authorities are doing to keep people safe. And later, saved from a public toilet. Police pull out a newborn baby now clinging to life. But the shocking rescue points to a bigger problem and we'll be taking a closer look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:00] KEILAR: A deadly outbreak of Legionnaires disease in New York City has now claimed seven lives. Authorities say that all of the victims were older adults with underlying medical conditions. Eighty- six cases of Legionnaires have now been reported since the outbreak began in early July. It's been clustered around five buildings in the south Bronx. This includes a hospital and a hotel. And just within the last couple of hours, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio addressed the situation and said the city has been aggressively testing buildings in the cluster area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: Five buildings have tested positive for Legionella and decontamination has been completed at all five sites. So those are the only five sites that we have evidence of contamination for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in Dr. Anthony Fauci, he's the director of the National Institute of Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health.

Dr. Fauci, so far you have five of these buildings that have tested positive. What exactly is this? A lot of people haven't even heard of Legionnaires' and they certainly don't know why it's so deadly.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIR., NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, it's a bacteria. It's called Legionella pneumophila. It's a bacteria that was actually first recognized in a big outbreak in Philadelphia in 1976. It is not spread from person to person. So as the mayor said, the approach would be to identify these cooling towers where this bacteria seems to thrive. The bacteria thrives in warm water, particularly water that's stagnant and has some debris in it, as you might see in a not very well attended water towers. When you identify the towers, which is the environmental source of these bacteria, then cleaning out and decontaminating the towers is the way to go, which is exactly what the New York health officials are doing right now.

KEILAR: This outbreak began in early July. Why did it take so long, several weeks, to figure out where this all started?

FAUCI: Well, first of all, it -- this is the kind of infection that isn't particularly obvious like flu and people start coughing on each other and one person gives it to another. This isn't spread that way. This is something in the environment. So when you start to see people getting sick, you can have a suspicion of what it is, but you have to identify the environmental source, which they were able to do, because the bacteria, in an unusual way, tends to spread by getting in the aerosolized or the vapor of water as it comes off these water towers. It's not the easiest thing in the world to pinpoint, but once you go after it, they've been able to do it. They tested 17 towers. They found the bacteria in five of those 17. And they immediately decontaminated those towers.

KEILAR: Why -- so explain to us, because you have these towers that are being decontaminated, why -- why do we see new cases then?

[13:30:00] FAUCI: Well, you see new -- that's a very good question. You see new cases because the incubation period from the time you get exposed to the time you get infected is anywhere from two to 14 days.