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Speaker John Boehner Resigns; Pope Francis is in New York City. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 25, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:20] SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I am sad, because I have a great respect and affection for Speaker Boehner. I was a bit surprised, but I also knew that John was under a lot of pressure, and also tired. It is tough handling this every day. And you know, somebody said that being a majority, the speaker is like herding cats, and you know, or frogs in a wheelbarrow, and so, you know, I can understand.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: They react to that pouring into the sudden resignation of speaker of the house John Boehner. You just saw him make that announcement only a few moments ago. We are back with the reporters and analysts.

Gloria Borger, I think all of us were stunned. He did provide a little bit more detail, a little bit more context now why the decision was made today.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: John Boehner is somebody who cares an awful lot about the institution. And as he said today, and he is one of the politicians who will actually tell you what he is thinking, and he said today, he didn't want the institution to go through another tough vote. He kept using the word turmoil. Clearly, it was not a fight for his speakership that he relished. And when, you know, you know that you have a problem with your troops when President Obama is saying nicer things about you than many of your fellow Republicans like Rick Santorum or Ted Cruz for example as Dana pointed out earlier, some of these people were virtually cheering John Boehner's decision.

So, he felt that for himself, I am sure, he was sick of it. And for the good of the party, that he ought to leave as he said it is something that he would do in November, so he moved it up. You know, he moved it up a bunch.

But Wolf, the fight among House Republicans, reflects the fight in the Republican Party at-large that we have been seeing during the Obama years. And you know, what is going to go on in that house now is what is going on in the Republican primaries. You know, you have got the more modern candidates who see themselves really under assault by the outsiders who are quite successful and to the people who are to the right of them, and that is playing out everywhere in Republican politics right now.

BLITZER: It certainly is.

Dana, did we know that the speaker was planning on this November 17th, a date to make this announcement that he was resigning as speaker of the house and giving up his seat in the House of Representative, the seat he has held for 25 years by end of the year, because that came as a surprise to me?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, he just announced it here. It was a surprise to everybody, perhaps the nearest and the dearest knew that that was the plan, but no, he absolutely didn't know that was - we didn't know that that was the plan. But you know, I am not sure if you heard that my question to him was about something that I have heard him say in private more than one time when he is been discussing how hard it has been to be speaker, especially when he has been trying to figure out how to never mind make deals on major pieces of legislation like for example trying to shrink the debt or deficit or deal with entitlements but just keeping this institution running when you think about it, it is kind of mind boggling that, that is all we are talking about here doing what is required constitutionally of Congress which is funding the government. He has talking about how hard it is by saying, you know, I have to somehow find a way to get people behind me in the caucus. That is why when he said if you are not, and a leader without people behind you have a guy taking a walk, that is what he meant, and it has been harder and harder for him to be able to corral everybody.

And as you have all been talking about as we reported earlier, the fact of the matter is that the newest fight over the fiscal, the fiscal deadline coming up, and the fact that the government, if the Congress does not approve more money, it is going to run out of money on October 1st, and he has seen this move so many times before. He know if he does what is in his heart which is to compromise and make sure that the institution does well, that he has to have even more problems from the right. And so that is what he is clearly trying to avoid.

But look, the bottom the line is that this is something, if you take a step back, that you don't see as much on the democratic side, and I am hearing it in the hallways especially today that there are conservative groups outside groups who raise money, and are funded for the sole purpose of trying to tear down their own fellow Republicans in leadership, and that is something that has really torn the party apart, and it is about the inner, the inner turmoil within the party and the ideology, but it is really made it very difficult, and it is not something we see so much on the democratic side.

[13:36:11] BLITZER: Kevin Madden, you worked with Speaker Boehner for a while. You know him quite well. And all of us, of course, saw how choked up he was, how he held back the tears today, yesterday when the Pope delivered a speech before Congress. What did he do over these past few years as speaker of the house that so angered or irritated some of these tea party supporters, some other conservatives in effect to force him to step down?

KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think there is -- most of all, I think that there is a disagreement over tactics. So many of the new members of the freedom caucus or the tea party contingent inside of the house, they wanted to be much more confrontational. Oftentimes, I think the disagreement was on the end game was. Oftentimes things like the government shutdowns. That worked against those that were in favor of the shutdown. You saw the Republican generic ballot drop in double digits when the government had shutdown. So a lot of the tactics backfire and they were tactics that John Boehner did not agree with. I think they all ultimately agreed on philosophically of what they want to do, every Republican up on Capitol Hill wanted to repeal Obamacare, every Republican - many Republicans up on capitol hill and majority of the Republicans wanted to defund Planned Parenthood, but there are certain realities to governing that John Boehner was very aware of.

But again, John Boehner's greatest strength, the reason he was speaker to begin with, was that he spent an inordinate amount of time. He was very dedicated to the process of listening to members throughout his conference. And there will always, when you have as divisive of a conference as this one is, you know, those -- it is very important to make sure that you listen to those voices of opposition inside of the conference. That was something that John Boehner did very well.

But ultimately, what happened was that John Boehner became the flashpoint. And as the speaker alluded to during his press conference, this is not about him. He is a very selfless public servant. He does not want those divisions in the conference to be about him, having members to take a tough vote about him. So I think the process of stepping aside was vintage John Boehner. He is about the institution, and that is at the core. It is about being a team player so that the conference can move forward with new members.

BLITZER: All right. Standby. Everybody standby. More than one Republican lawmaker will not be sad to see that John Boehner leave his position at the end of October. I'm talking about the Republicans, most of them under the tea party category who accused the speaker of not fighting hard enough for core conservative issues and compromising too much the Democrats and with the White House. One of those Republicans unhappy with John Boehner is Matt Salmon from Arizona who went so far earlier this month to predict a shake-up in the majority party leadership. The congressman is joining us now.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us. What is your immediate reaction to the speaker's announcement?

REP. MATT SALMON (R), ARIZONA: Well, I was surprised as everyone else that he actually resigned, but I applaud him for doing so. I think it is a selfless act. When anybody is the issue, and instead of the issues at hand, it is time to move on. And I think that it was a very selfless act. And I congratulate him. It was going to be very, very difficult, I think for us, to move forward without serious conflict. And you don't see this kind of thing happen very often in Washington, D.C. And I think one of your panelists said that it never happens in the Democrat part and that is true. You don't ever see then putting country before their own ambition. And I congratulate the speaker for doing this.

BLITZER: You supported John Boehner for election of the speaker back in 2012 and again in 2014. So why do you support him now, and what happened that forced you now to change your position?

[13:40:06] SALMON: Look, I'm a representative of the people that sent me to Washington, D.C. And they have been very, very clear. I caught more guff from my voters over my votes for John Boehner both times than any other thing. And I would like to reflect the will of my people, the people that sent me. I am a representative and I vote for them.

The second thing is that we promised many, many things if we took the Senate, those things have not materialized. And I think that they at least expect us to fight the fight. You don't always win. You don't expect to always win. But we do expect to fight the fight. And I think that is what our voters want us to do. I think is also evidence across the country why the three top poll getters in the presidential race are all people who have never held public office. I think people are sick and tired of business as usual, and they are ready for us to fight on principle for the things that we believe.

The speaker said that in his press conference that if we do the right thing, then good things will happen. I couldn't agree more. I think he is right on with that.

BLITZER: Who do you want to see replace him?

SALMON: I think it is probably a little bit early right now. We are not going to have to face that vote until the end of October when the speaker leaves. And I think the reasonable thing for us to do is to sit down with some of the would-be leaders and pick their brain and find out if they are going to have the tenacity to mount the kind of challenges to be the loyal opposition to the White House. And to do the right thing for America and the things that we promised. And when that person materializes I think it will find robust support from all quadrants of our party.

BLITZER: Are you going to throw your hat in the ring?

SALMON: Absolutely, not. I actually believe that there are a lot of great people back here that could a great job, and intent to support one of those folks.

BLITZER: Matt Salmon is a Republican congressman from Arizona.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

SALMON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Up next, we will get one of John Boehner's supporters, Congressman Luke Messer to join us.

Also, take a look at this. You are looking at live pictures of all ticket holders. If you are in New York City, you are lining up to enter Central Park. It is one of the Pope's stops later on this afternoon. We will have a preview of what is ahead in the coming hours. That is coming up.

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[13:46:31] BLITZER: Let's get back to the breaking news. Our top story this hour, the announcement by the house speaker John Boehner that he is stepping down at the end of October giving up the position as speaker and also retiring from the House of Representatives.

Indiana congressman Luke Messer is part of the republican leadership in the House right now. He is chairman of the house Republican policy committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

Very quickly, are you interested in the house speaker job?

REP. LUKE MESSER (R), INDIANA: No, it won't be running for speaker, Wolf. You know, I think today, the American people have seen why John Boehner's colleagues love him. You know, agree with John Boehner or not, he is a good man, and person of faith and at peace with himself who has always tried to put his country first.

BLITZER: But not all of your Republican colleagues clearly love him. We just heard Matt Salmon say that in his district in Arizona, the biggest grief he got was that he twice voted for John Boehner from his constituents, the biggest grief he got was he twice voted for John Boehner for speaker of the house, and that is why he has turned against him. I assume you have heard that from other Republicans.

MESSER: Sure. I mean, the American people are frustrated right now. They are looking for the house to step up and do more. You know, John has had some big victories in his time here. We have had some losses, too. I think now, though, we have to capitalize on the opportunity that John has given us. It is an opportunity to come together. Because you know, after this decision is now made, we can come together, but we are still going to have the same president. We are still going to have a significant minority in the Senate. And our opportunity to make a difference for this country is going to be when we stand together on conservative principles.

BLITZER: And one of the issues in recent weeks is been funding for Planned Parenthood. The government is going to be running out of money at the end of this month, October 1st, the new fiscal year. Is the government going to run out of money? Will there be budget for the government to keep operating, and the president is not going to let Planned Parenthood funding go away.

MESSER: Nobody wants to shut down the government. What we do want to do is keep the government open and stop the atrocities of Planned Parenthood as well. I am confident that we are going to find a way here over the next few days to get that done. I'm confident that we will keep the government open.

BLITZER: When did you find out that the speaker was going to be step down? MESSER: I literally found out this morning. Of course, we all knew

that the Pope was such a major event in the speaker's life and amazing historic day for our country. But I think we all were a little bit surprise, obviously. It is just a few hours' old now and it is in some ways hard to believe. John Boehner has been the speaker my entire time here in Congress.

BLITZER: Who do you want to be the new speaker?

MESSER: There are some strong people running. Kevin McCarthy is going to be in a very strong spot. But, you know, we are again just hours out of this. I think we all have a responsibility to listen to those that are interested in running, try to discern what the right path is forward, but obviously, Kevin has done a strong job as majority leader. I think he would be a strong speaker.

BLITZER: The New York Republican congressman Peter King says, and I am quoting him now, in effect he says, crazies in the Republican Party have taken over the house. He suggests that a small minority force has forced the speaker to resign. Do you agree?

MESSER: Well, I have a lot of respect for Speaker King, but I will tell you this. The speaker said today that this is a time to come forward and come together. This is a time when the speaker has put the institution first. And I think that as a conference, we have to come together and put our differences aside and focus on the areas that we agree. And that is what I am going to be trying to do. I think that is what the vast majority of our colleagues are trying the do. And as I mentioned to you before, Wolf, we still have the same challenges. We still have President Obama and we still have a sizable minority of the Democrats in the Senate who are opposed to us in most issues. We are going to do our best job as conference standing up for conservative principles if we can stand up together.

[13:50:11] BLITZER: A little turmoil in the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives right now.

Congressman Luke Messer, thanks very much for joining us.

MESSER: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: More large crowds gathering here in New York City. People hoping to get a glimpse of Pope Francis. He's got more on his really packed itinerary including a school visit at the east Harlem, a trip through Central Park, mass later tonight at Madison square garden. We will have a live report from here in New York after this quick break.

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[13:55:05] BLITZER: We return to the day's other major story we are following.

Two big visible events are next on the Pope's schedule here in New York City. 4:00 p.m. eastern, he will visit an elementary school up in east Harlem. And then it is back into the Pope mobile for a ride through Central Park. Rosa Flores is in east Harlem for us right now at Our Lady Queen of

Angels school.

Rosa, describe the anticipation level at that school right now.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, so many emotions culminate in this particular event and here is why. And I have to take you back a little bit because when we left Rome on the papal plane and Pope Francis gave that first greeting to journalists, he said I'm very emotional because I just met refugees from Syria that were taken in by the Vatican. So imagine that. That was in Rome.

Here at this location, he is going to be meeting with refugees from Mexico, Peru, Africa, Honduras. So when the Pope has encounters is what he uses - the word that the he uses to call this with immigrants, with refugees, he gets very, very emotional.

Now, I've talked to some of the people who are anticipating to meet the Pope and they are very, very emotional. So it's going to be a very emotional encounter here because of that. Now add to that the fact he's going to be meeting with students, with young children. And we know that Pope Francis just glows with emotion whenever he meets children.

Now, about the neighborhood, now this is a neighborhood that has a lot of public housing. So a lot of people in need. So three tier, if you will, a trinity of emotions that could culminate here. And I want to show you the school that where he will be meeting these students. Now, most of the students that attend this school are Hispanic and African-American. Students will also be meeting Pope Francis here. More than two dozen students from four different schools including six students from this particular school.

And again, a lot of these kids very, very happy and excited to be able to meet the Pope. And, you know, if the emotion that we have seen from Pope Francis is any indication as to what is going to happen inside this building, it's going to be a beautiful thing, Wolf.

BLITZER: It certainly will be, Rosa. This particular school, a lot of catholic schools in the New York City area. Why did he pick this particular school or why did the catholic leaders say this school is the Pope's most important stop here in New York City?

FLORES: You know, Pope Francis usually chooses a school, a place, a community that's in need. We saw it in South Africa when he visited South America. He very much zeroes into the communities that are in need, that are hurting.

Now, one of the reasons why this community is hurting is because their church was closed. I want to show it to you. It's actually right behind the school. So that cross that you see, that green cross, that's the church that was closed back in 2007. There's actually an effort in this community to bring it back.

I spoke to a woman earlier today that said that she hopes to have two minutes with Pope Francis so that she can explain to him the importance of opening churches again in communities. She said, you know, we'd love to have a place of worship.

I have learned in this little park area, sometimes on the weekends, people just get together to read scripture or just to have a spiritual moment because they don't have a church. So Wolf, imagine if this woman has a chance to share her story with Pope Francis, I would not be surprised if he decides to open this church in Harlem just because, again, in response to the needs of the community, the e emotions that he's going to feel when he meets immigrants, refugees, children in an area that is very much in need - Wolf.

BLITZER: Certainly is. Our Lady Queen of Angels school, that's where Rosa is.

Rosa, thank you very much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. This is CNN's special live coverage of two major stories unfolding in the United States right now.

The first, the speaker of the House of Representatives stunning the nation by announcing he will resign next month.

The man apparently helped accelerate this decision, Pope Francis. He is in the middle of an historic day here in New York City from world leaders at the United Nations to 9/11 first responders, the 78-year- old pontiff is reaching out to them all. And many others in between. Soon he will visit the children that Our Lady Queen of Angels school in Harlem. He will begin today -- began today, I should say, by speaking to the United Nations general assembly. He then visited the ground zero memorial where he joined an incredible event of religious solidarity.