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Wolf
Israeli Prime Minister Slams Iran Deal; Russia Launches New Round of Airstrikes in Syria; Fighting All Rebel Groups; Russia and U.S. Discussing Syria Strikes. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired October 01, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Benghazi, 8:00 p.m. in Damascus. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
You saw it live here on CNN just moments ago. The prime minister of Israel's major address before the United Nations General Assembly. In a fiery speech, he slammed the Iran nuclear deal, telling those nations who had spoken out in favor of it, in his words, check your enthusiasm at the door.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: The response from nearly every one of the governments represented here has been absolutely nothing, utter silence, deafening silence. Perhaps you can now understand --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A dramatic 44-second pause by the prime minister of Israel in his address before the United Nations General Assembly.
Jim Sciutto's our Chief National Security Correspondent who's with us as well. Jim, you know, this is a vintage, as has been pointed out, Netanyahu speech before the U.N. Every year he comes, he always does something dramatic. The consistent theme, though, over these many years is that Iran, under the Ayatollah, the supreme leader, makes no bones about it. They want to destroy the only Jewish state and he speaks about that.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Right, he has -- he has a talent for the dramatic moment. You remember him with the placard showing the Iranian progress on the nuclear bomb. Almost a cartoonish placard to make that point. But this one much more dramatic. The 44 seconds of silence and making the comparison to the silence during Nazi Germany's campaign, the holocaust, against the Jews.
But interestingly as well, and you noted this, that in the same speech, he talks about moving on, in effect. This intense disagreement between the U.S. and Israel on the Iran nuclear deal. But that, now, it's a fact, and you're still allies, and you have to move to the next step.
BLITZER: Yes, he made the point, there were 6 million Jews who were killed during the Nazi genocide. There are 6 million Jews who live in Israel today.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BLITZER: And he vowed that will not happen again.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BLITZER: Israel will do whatever is necessary to protect its citizens. He also, I thought, significantly, coming a day after the Palestinian authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, yesterday said he can't go forward with the Oslo accords, the Israeli Palestinian peace process, blaming Israel for violating what he saw as its commitments, building settlements in the west bank and taking those kinds of steps.
What Netanyahu said, he still now supports what he called a two-state solution. He said he supports a demilitarized Palestine living alongside the Jewish state of Israel which seemed to be movement on his part, given what he said on the eve of his re-election, when he seemed to reject that notion of a two-state solution.
SCIUTTO: Well, at least moving back due to the previous status quo.
BLITZER: Right.
SCIUTTO: Because before the election, of course, in an appeal to extremist voters in Israel, he raised a question about the two-state solution, including, you'll remember, his comments about Arab voters being dishonest or somehow disloyal to the state. So, now back to the middle, you have to think that is a prerequisite for talking to the White House on this, that they have to acknowledge it.
But I have to think Mahmoud Abbas and many others in the west bank in that community will doubt that he is the Israeli leader who's going to carry this through, because, from their point of view, he's thrown up so many roadblocks to this. And that key word, demilitarize, might be a factor there because will they accept no Palestinian authority, militant, you know, group, or whatever you want to call it, or security forces. That's a real question.
BLITZER: Yes, he said he's ready to negotiate, ready to sit down with Mahmoud Abbas.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BLITZER: Tomorrow, without any preconditions he said, let's see if the Palestinians are willing to do the same thing. But I thought it was a little significant that he did speak, mention that two-state, Israel-Palestine, even if he did caveat it with a demilitarized Palestine Jewish state of Israel.
SCIUTTO: No, it's definitely significant and I'm sure that U.S. officials' ears perked up at that. And that that lays the groundwork for raproshma (ph). And if that's -- you can have raproshma between allies.
[13:05:02] BLITZER: When President Obama has invited Prime Minister Netanyahu to the White House in November, we'll see how that meeting goes. We know earlier meetings have been, let's put it bluntly, tense.
SCIUTTO: Less than warm.
BLITZER: Yes. All right, Jim Sciutto, thanks very much.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
BLITZER: Let's get to the other breaking news we're following. Russia unleashes a second day of air strikes in Syria. The escalation clearly complicates the fight against ISIS and the effort to end Syria's bloody civil war.
And questions persist about whether Russia is really targeting ISIS or the enemies of the Syrian president, Bashar Al Assad. Russia says today's air strikes took aim at ISIS headquarters in Hama and an ammunition dump near Idlib Province. Syrian activists posted this video said to be from those air strikes. CNN cannot independently verify that it is.
Meanwhile, Arizona Senator John McCain says he has confirmed that Russia is going after President Assad's opponents rather than ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Their initial strikes were against the individuals and the groups that have been funded and trained by our CIA in an incredible flaunting any kind of the -- of any kind of cooperation or effort to conceal what their first -- Putin's priority is and that is, of course, to prop up Bashar Assad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Russia's foreign minister says the goal is to help Syria fight not only ISIS but other terrorist groups as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, FOREIGN MINISTER, RUSSIA: The goal is terrorism. And we are not supporting anyone against their own people. We fight terrorists. As far as I understand, the coalition announced ISIL and other associated groups as the enemy. And the coalition does the same as Russia do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. So, let's get some more on these latest breaking developments. Joining us, Republican Congressman Ed Royce. He's the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Also joining us, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff. He's the ranking member on the House Permanent Select Committee on intelligence. Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us. Chairman Royce, let me start with you. Your assessment of what Russia is up to in Syria right now. You heard Senator McCain say the Russian strikes are targeting CIA-backed rebels who are opposed to the regime of President Bashar Al Assad. Your assessment?
REP. ED ROYCE (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS: General Soleimani of the Quds forces, the Iranian force in charge of assassinations and attacks outside of Iran, carries out the activities in Syria. And you'll notice General Soleimani made that trip to Moscow, had that meeting with President Putin, and asked if Russia would come in, apparently, and assist the Quds forces, the Iranians, and their support on the ground for Assad.
The concern I have in all of this is that, so far, most of Assad's attacks, 90 percent of his attacks over the last month, have been against the Sunni population, the majority population in Syria. So, those have primarily been attacks on markets, on schools, on hospitals. 10 percent have been on his opposition. Unfortunately, this first wave of attacks by the Russians did hit markets, a bakery. And so, the question is, is it more attacks just on the Sunni population or are they actually going to go after the foreign fighters in ISIS? That's the big question here.
BLITZER: What is your assessment, Congressman Schiff?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, my assessment is that what Russia is doing by not targeting ISIL in this first wave of strikes is really playing into Assad's strategy, combining with Assad's strategy, and that is going after the moderate opposition. Making this what Bash Al Assad wanted to be a self-full flying policy all along, a choice between Assad ultimately and ISIL and Al Qaeda. And the way to do that, for Assad, has been focusing his firepower on the moderates and now the Russians are coming and doing the same thing.
Well, I think it explains one question we had yesterday which is, why weren't the Russians working with us to deconflict? And I think the answer now is quite clear. They didn't work with us to deconflict because they would have come in and said, here's where we're going to bomb and we would have said, but there's no ISIL there. And they would've had to explain that's not really what we're after.
BLITZER: Reuters is reporting, Mr. Chairman, and I'll be precise, hundreds of Iranian troops have now arrived in Syria. They're joining forces with Lebanese Hezbollah forces, all of whom back the regime of President Bashar Al Assad. They're going after these CIA-backed, these U.S.-backed rebels, in effect, on the ground. Whereas, the Russians are going after them from the air. What can you tell us about this, if this is happening?
ROYCE: Yes, this is part of the coalition which Iran has with Russia and with Assad in Syria. And the great humanitarian disaster that's occurring as a result is that as this -- these Shia militia -- they're all Shia or the Alawites or aligned with Shia. As they press their war against the wider Sunni majority and against coalition-supported forces there, what is happening is that 7 million Syrians have been displaced. Now, these are primarily Sunnis.
[13:10:37] Part of it has been displaced by ISIS. It's true. But most of it has been displaced by Assad's forces, by the Hezbollah militia which assist them by the IRGC Iranian forces that assist them and the Quds forces. And so, this is a humanitarian nightmare in the region and beyond the region, now, for Europe. As populations are fleeing, as a consequence of these attacks, many of them focused on civilian centers. Chemical attacks at night, by the way, by Assad, and barrel bombs during the day. And so, this is a humanitarian nightmare in the region.
BLITZER: How concerned, Congressman Schiff, are you about this alleged, or this reported intelligence cooperation, intelligence sharing deal that the Russians, apparently, have worked without Iran, Iraq and Syria?
SCHIFF: Well, I'm particularly concerned about the Iran connection. Certainly, I don't think they're going to be very helpful in Iraq either. But this connection between Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia, I think is a reflection of the fact that there was growing concern in Tehran and in Moscow that the regime was cracking and might crumble.
So, this is an effort, a last-ditch effort, to really escalate in the hopes of saving the regime. And the consequence, I think, is going to be that the conflict is merely prolonged because as long as Assad is in power, this civil war is going to churn on. And as my colleague, Chairman Royce, is saying, it's a humanitarian disaster, the likes of which we haven't seen probably since World War II. And anything that's going to prolong it is just an agony. So, I have deep concerns about it.
I'll make one other point, Wolf. I think the last time we talked, it was about the Turks and how they were joining the coalition but bombing the Kurds. And I think we're seeing the same thing, that Turks were saying, OK, we're joining the coalition against ISIL, but using that as a pretext to go into the Kurds. I think the Russians are now doing the same thing, saying, we're joining the coalition against ISIL, but we're really going after the moderate opposition, the only real threat to the regime of Assad.
BLITZER: Well, Mr. Chairman, let me pick up on that. Based on what you know, has the U.S. started directly providing weapons to the Kurds, who, as you know, are fierce fighters and who work with the U.S.? But they're -- they've been complaining that they're not getting the equipment they need to fight ISIS and other groups.
SCHIFF: No, the U.S. policy is not to do that. We're waiting support from Baghdad. And, of course, the Shia majority in Baghdad under pressure from Iran is blocking the support of the mortars, of the artillery, of the anti-tank weapons that the Kurds need. So, the Kurds are strung out right now over a 600-mile front. 30 percent of their forces are women, about 180,000 Kurdish Peshmerga forces. And they're holding back ISIS. And many of the minorities, the Yazidis and others, Christians, are fleeing behind Kurdish lines.
But, as they tell us, as their foreign minister who's been here on three occasions to tell us, they're out of ammunition. They don't have mortar shells. They don't -- they don't have the equipment. And so, for them to push back ISIS, they need that kind of support directly from the United States. They're not going to get it from an Iranian-influenced government in Baghdad. And, so far, the administration has not moved forward with that direct support, although we have tried to move legislation to do it. But they have indicated they would veto that legislation.
BLITZER: Let me get both of you quickly to respond, we're almost out of time, to what the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, just told the United Nations General Assembly. He was very firm, fiery speech, obviously bitterly complaining about the Iran nuclear deal. And among other things, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: Does anyone seriously believe that flooding a radical theocracy with weapons and cash will curb its appetite for aggression? Do any of you really believe that a theocratic Iran with sharper claws and sharper fangs will be more likely to change its stripes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, Congressman Schiff, you voted for the Iran nuclear deal. How worried are you that with 10s of billions of dollars about to flow into Iran, as the prime minister said, they're going to use that money to promote terror attacks against Israel and others?
[13:15:10]
SCHIFF: Well, I'm certainly very concerned about it and I think unquestionably some of the additional resources Iran has, it's going to devote to a lot of the people we're fighting against, like Hezbollah. At the same time, while I would be concerned and am concerned with an Iran that's better resourced, I'd be frankly even more concerned with an Iran with a runaway nuclear program, which is what they had before the agreement, when they had 20,000 centrifuges spinning and about 12,000 kilos of enriched uranium. So rolling back their nuclear program, depriving them of the nuclear club were they could threaten Israel, that, to me, is the most significant objective in the agreement.
BLITZER: Chairman Royce, you opposed the nuclear deal. Your reaction to what the prime minister of Israel just said?
ROYCE: Well, I think the fact that the Russians are transferring $20 billion worth of combat aircraft into Iran, you know, when that $100 billion is released out of escrow, the fact that $20 billion of it will pay for that Russian combat aircraft and other equipment, as well as the $100 million that they're transferring to Hezbollah, they are specifically trying to arm those 90,000 rockets they've already given Hezbollah with a guidance system that would allow them pinpoint accuracy. They've also offered to rebuild the tunnels, one of which I've been in, under Gaza, into Israel, and to resupply Hamas with weaponry. So they will use that hard currency. And, remember, the IRGC, the commanders of the guards forces, they're the ones that took over most of the major companies inside Iran. The money will go to those companies. It will be in the hands of the IRGC. This is going to be a real problem for the region.
BLITZER: Congressman Ed Royce and Adam Schiff, thanks to both you for joining us.
SCHIFF: Thanks, Wolf.
ROYCE: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Up next, our terror and military experts, they'll weigh in on President Putin's end game and how dangerous the situation in Syria could become.
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[13:21:38] BLITZER: More now on the breaking news. A second day of Russian air strikes in Syria. The Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, says his country sees eye to eye, his words, with the coalition about the goal of the air strikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We indeed are interested in cooperation with the coalition. We cannot be part of the coalition which operates without the Security Council mandate and without the request from one of the countries of whose territories they operate. But we understand the reality and we want to avoid any misunderstandings at minimum. At maximum, we want to have a cooperation which would make the counterterrorist fight more efficient overall.
BLITZER: All right, let's get some perspective from our experts. Paul Cruikshank is a CNN terrorism analyst. He's co-author of the book "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al Qaeda." Also joining us, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. He's a CNN military analyst. And Phil Mudd is a CNN counterterrorism analyst.
Colonel, despite the comments by the Russian foreign minister, the consensus, at least here in Washington, seems to be this operation is mostly designed to prop up the regime of President Bashar al Assad.
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It sure appears that way. If you look at the target sets on both days, neither of these appear to be ISIS targets. And you can't say the Russians don't know what they're striking. They've got access to Syrian, Iraqi and Iranian intelligence. So they know where the -- who's on the ground and where. So when they launch these strikes, they know they're going after anti-regime rebels. I think they're just paying lip service to this ISIS thing, much like the Turks did with the ISIS versus the PKK.
BLITZER: And I'll repeat, Paul, the -- that Reuters report that hundreds of Iranian troops are in Syria right now. They're ready to start a ground war, if you will, against Bashar al Assad's opponents, including U.S.-backed rebels, if you will, joining Hezbollah fighters. There could be a real escalation of what's going on if the Russian air force attacks from the air and these other elements attack from the ground.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, that's absolutely right, Wolf. And that could be really severe unintended consequences here. There's a lot of anger in the Muslim world already about these air strikes from the Russians, which have targeted, it would appear at least, hurt some civilians on the ground. There are raw feelings in the Muslim world about the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the '80s, about Chechnya. So I think there could be a surge in the number of foreign fighters, going to Syria, making the situation there even worse, with very large international security reverberations, Wolf.
BLITZER: And just for some perspective, Phil, and you've watched this unfold over these past several year, as have I, and we're all outraged, what, 200,000 or 300,000 people have been killed, who knows how many have been injured, 6 or 7 million have been made refugees internally, externally the worst refugee crisis since World War II. And at least in the short term, a I wonder if you agree, a lot of analysts say this is going to get even worse.
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I'm not sure I agree with this. Look, we can't figure out how to the get ourselves out of this box in the United States. We say we don't want a radical government, we don't want ISIS to take over in Syria. Obviously that makes sense. But we also don't want to see a dictator continue.
[13:25:02] I don't understand why we're surprised about what the Russians have done. They're policy is much more clear minded. We've got a refugee crisis. There's a couple thousand Russians fighting with the jihadis in Syria. They've simply said we can't afford to have ISIS roll in and take over the country. They are not there to fight ISIS. It's pretty clear. They're there to prevent any radicals from taking over the government and that means striking targets that potentially include U.S. allies among the opposition. This is pretty clear.
BLITZER: Here's what worries me, and I've spoken to Pentagon officials, it worries them a great deal, colonel, and I want you to weigh in. The Russians are now flying sophisticated warplanes in various parts of Syria. The U.S. is continuing its air strikes against various targets in Syria. Other countries, they send in planes from time to time, whether Turkey, Israel does from time to time, to prevent weapons from reaching Hezbollah for example. There's going to be a lot of aircraft up in the skies over Syria. There could be a miscalculation and some plane could go down by another country causing who knows what.
FRANCONA: That's exactly right. And I think what we've got right now just makes this even worse. You've got Russians, Syrians, Americans, and now we've got the French coming in, in a bigger way. So you've got all these different aircraft working for different coalitions, different command and control centers, not coordinating their operations. They may de-conflict, but they're not coordinating. And as you say, you get these high performance aircraft in close proximity. One miscalculation, it only takes a split second to do the wrong thing. Here's where the confrontation may come is when you see Russian planes
attacking anti-regime rebels that are allied with the United States. Are we going to have our pilots stand by while Russian pilots decimate our allies on the ground? Do we confront them? Do we challenge them? Do we warn them? We're just setting up a confrontation. And I don't think it's a matter of if, I think it's only a matter of when, unless the two -- the major powers here, the Russians and the Americans, can come to some sort of agreement. And it doesn't look like either side is willing to back down right now.
BLITZER: Well, let me ask Paul, how strong are these pro-U.S. rebels in Syria right now? Because we heard that in the U.S. training of these rebels, make only four or five are still fighting.
CRUICKSHANK: Well, they're not very strong at all. Much more stronger, (INAUDIBLE), the army of conquest, an Islamism constellation of groups, which includes Ara el Sham (ph), which include Jabhat al Nusra, the al Qaeda affiliates in Syria. It appears that group -- that constellation of group have been targeted by the Russians over the last two days. I think one very big concern, the way I see it, is that ISIS and al Qaeda, there could be some fence mending in Syria over this because these Russian strikes could create a kind of unifying effect between these two groups. There's been an escalating war of words between ISIS and al Qaeda, but this could actually unify them and that would be a very frightening prospect indeed.
BLITZER: What are the chances you think there could be some air traffic control, Phil, that the Russians, the U.S., the French, the Israelis, the Turks, whether some of the -- the gulf Arab states, the UAE or whatever, the Saudis if they're flying planes, the Jordanians, they could coordinate at least to prevent some miscalculation, one plane shooting down accidentally another plane?
MUDD: It seems to me that you cannot continue in this situation with this tight airspace with that number of aircraft from those many countries flying for months at a time without an incident. I don't know how you fail to de-conflict here. But I agree with Colonel Francona, we've got some other issues. Number one is, if you start to de-conflict and the Russians say we're going against a target that includes militants that are supported by the United States, you can understand why the Russians would be reluctant to pass along that information.
Let me throw one more curve ball at you. If you're supporting, as the U.S. is, some of this moderate opposition, you've got to not only worry about de-conflict, what if they start asking for weapons to take down Russian aircraft? As the Afghan militants did during the fight against the Soviets and the Americans supplied it. I think this has a lot of complicating factors if we don't de-conflict.
BLITZER: We're just getting a report, and I wonder, Rick Francona, if you could weigh in, suggesting that there are no rebel group headquarters or military post inside these villages that have been targeted by Russian warplanes over the past two days in the Homs area, which is north of Damascus. I'll read a quote from one activist. "All rebel military posts and headquarters are located outside the villages. Russian warplanes were targeting civilians and innocent people only." When you hear that, what's your reaction?
FRANCONA: Well, yes, I looked at all these videos. I follow this quite closely. And, you know, the ISIS positions are nowhere near where the Russians have been striking. And if you look at the weapons being used, they're using cluster bombs all over these areas. If they're going after ammunition dumps and headquarters, they wouldn't be using cluster munitions. They're just killing a lot of people.
[13:30:08] BLITZER: A very dangerous situation. All right, Rick Francona, Phil Mudd, Paul Cruickshank, guys, thanks very much.
