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Interview with Rep. Mac Thornberry; Rep. Elijah Cummings Talks Clinton's Attacks on Republicans on Benghazi, Guns; United Plane Diverted after Another Pilot Becomes Ill; Interview with Ohio Governor John Kasich. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 06, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And you know the criticism that the U.S. has spent tens of billions of dollars training the Afghan troops and military an Afghan police, and the question, and lost thousands of lives in the process, and so many of tens of thousands have come home obviously deeply injured and wounded. The point is why can't the Afghans get the job done with this enormous U.S. investment in their training?

MAC THORNBERRY, (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, I think that they can eventually. But as Americans, we tend to be impatient and we want to spend a bunch of money, and get the job done and come home. And unfortunately, for missions like this to beef up security forces and be more capable, it is going to take longer than that. As a matter of fact, one of the issues that I want to focus this fall in our Armed Services Committee is to look at examples of where our train and assist efforts have worked with well, and where they have not worked well, and look at the reasons underlying that. And we should not think, I believe, it is a get it done quick sort of thing. It takes longer.

BLITZER: One final question before I let you go, Mr. Chairman, who do you want to be the next speaker of the House of Representatives?

THORNBERRY: Kevin McCarthy would do a great job, and he has been very involved in national security issue, and traveling abroad and engaging with foreign leaders and consulting outside experts like Condoleezza Rice and others. For the national security, which is what I care for the most, clearly the best choice and would do a great job.

BLITZER: Thank you, Mac Thornberry, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

THORNBERRY: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: By the way, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John McCain, will be joining me later at 5:30 eastern on "The Situation Room."

Hillary Clinton on the offense, releasing a new ad attacking the committee investigating her e-mails. Democrats on that committee now jumping on board as well, threatening to release secret transcripts. Congressman Elijah Cummings will be on next to talk about this and more. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:23]WOLF: Hillary Clinton is using the Republican leaders own words for a campaign ad, which is going to take aim at Kevin McCarthy's comments about politics and Benghazi Select Committee. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The Republicans finally admit it.

ANNOUNCER: Republican Kevin McCarthy saying that the committee investigating Benghazi is really meant to destroy Hillary Clinton's candidacy.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee. What are her numbers today?

ANNOUNCER: Republicans have spent millions to attack Hillary and it is because of everything that they oppose, from affordable health care to equal pay. And she will never stop fighting for you, and Republicans know it.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm Hillary Clinton, and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The House majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, fired right back with this statement. "The mission of the Select Committee on Benghazi is to find the truth, period. The integrity of Chairman Trey Gowdy and the rest of the committee is beyond reproach. The mission of the Select Committee on Benghazi is to find the truth, period. The serious questions Secretary Clinton faces are due entirely to her own decision to put classified information at risk and endanger our national security."

Democrats on the Benghazi committee are raising the stakes, coming to Clinton's strong defense. They are also releasing portions of close- door testimony of a top Clinton aid and they are threatening to release the entire transcript. In a letter to Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy, the Democrats say, quote, "Republicans have engaged in a series of selected leaks of inaccurate and incomplete information in an effort to attack Secretary Clinton with unsubstantiated or previously debunked allegations."

Congressman Elijah Cummings is the ranking Democrat on the Benghazi committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

It sounds like it is getting into the bare knuckle politics right now. What is your sense, and the latest going on? What is the whole Select Committee process, because the whole committee could be endangered? REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D), MARYLAND: And clearly, Kevin McCarthy is

trying to walk the words back, Wolf, but he can't. He basically affirmed what has been happening over the last year or so. We have had a situation where Republicans have been leaking transcripts and -- sorry are, leaking various statements, and they give you half the truth, but they don't give you everything. So therefore, basically what we have said is, look, few you are going to put out e-mails then we want to make sure that those e-mails are put out in a way that you have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The same with Cheryl Mills who had a transcribed interview, and then they said that it was going to be treated as a classified interview, and within moments, Wolf of the interview over, the Republicans were leaking information again half truths and limited information, and all we are saying is, look, let's put out the entire transcript.

BLITZER: And Cheryl Mills is the top the aide to Hillary Clinton, and they say you guys are turning it into a partisan political fight days before a public appearance of Hillary Clinton. And they said the committee issued this statement, "By selectively leaking and spinning parts of Secretary Clinton's top aide Cheryl Mill's transcript, Democrats have shown their innately political motivation and willingness to violate the spirit of the House rules and their desire to violate the letter and spirit of House rules and their desire to defend Secretary Clinton without regard to the integrity of the investigation. Most Democrats on the Benghazi committee have endorsed Clinton and they are now running a protection effort for the former secretary.

Strong words. Are the Democrats -- Are you going to continue to cooperate with this committee or do you want to see this end?

[13:40:09] CUMMINGS: Well, Kevin McCarthy has pretty much said we're an illegal committee. In other words, he's saying what we are doing is unethical using taxpayer money to derail the campaign of Secretary Clinton. But it is interesting that statement was made because, back in June, Chairman Gowdy is the one who released the e-mails of Blumenthal and Secretary Clinton. He started that. What we are trying to clear the record. I said from the beginning that we would go after the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and be there to defend the truth. When you put out e-mails, and there is no context -- he started it. What we are doing is clearing the record.

There's one other thing that has happened that we can not dismiss, and that is that Kevin McCarthy has made it abundantly clear that when they put the committee together, it is to basically derail the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Everything that I have seen with this committee has been bearing it out. Basically, he really affirmed what was already happening.

BLITZER: And now --

(CROSSTALK)

CUMMINGS: And he can't walk it back, by the way.

BLITZER: And let me shift gears here on one thing, guns in America. And in a recent article in the "Baltimore Sun" you were quoted as saying, quote, People in my neighborhood tell me -- these are 15-year-olds -- tell me

that they can get a gun faster than they can get a cigarette."

Maryland has very strict gun control laws, as you well know. Why is that possible?

CUMMINGS: I think that, keep in mind, that as a young boy in my neighborhood said, we don't produce the guns, and these guns are coming from elsewhere. We need to have clear laws with regard to the straw purchasers and making sure that the straw purchasers are punished when they buy the guns for people who should not have gun. And that is one of the biggest problems. And as a matter of fact, Congressman Maloney, Carol Maloney and I have a bill directly to that issue of gun trafficking. Wolf, there is more to be done. Again, they don't produce guns in my neighborhood.

BLITZER: Elijah Cummings of Maryland, thank you for joining us, Congressman.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

Just into CNN, news of another a flight forced to avert today after the pilot became ill. We will have the details in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:46:45] BLITZER: This just coming into CNN. A United Airlines flight had to be diverted to New Mexico after one of the pilots became ill. This is the second incident like this in as many days.

We go the Rene Marsh.

Rene, walk us through what happened?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the information coming in from the airport at Albuquerque, New Mexico, and they say they diverted because the first pilot was unconscious, and this flight from Houston to go the San Francisco had to divert to the Albuquerque, New Mexico, airport. We know that once this once the aircraft landed safely, and the medics were at the scene to check out the co-pilot, but after examination, the co-pilot was able to walk himself off of the plane, and we know that he was transported to the hospital, and now at this point, United Airlines is working to get the passengers to the final destination. But of course, why we are so paying attention to this story is because it comes one day after we heard that American Airlines' pilot died in the cockpit mid flight, and that flight had to be diverted, and that happening yesterday, and here we are today, a co-pilot on United Airlines unconscious forcing that flight to divert, but the good news here, it sounds like the co-pilot will survive and he is getting the treatment that he needs.

BLITZER: All right. Let's hope for the best.

Thank you, Rene.

Coming up, Ohio governor and Republican presidential candidate, John Kasich, is joining me today in the studio.

He's walking into the studio now.

Governor John Kasich, we have so issues to talk about, including what's going on in Afghanistan, domestic guns, all the key issues. No Republican president has ever been elected without carrying your state, the state of Ohio. We'll see what's going on.

Governor Kasich is with me right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:06] BLITZER: There's outrage over that U.S. air strike over a hospital, deep concern over Russia's move to put more troops into Syria. Those are a few of the foreign policy issues that are happening today.

Let's discuss what's going on including the race for the White House. The Ohio governor, the GOP presidential candidate, John Kasich, is here.

Governor, thank you for joining us.

JOHN KASICH, (R), OHIO GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: What would you do in Afghanistan right now if you were president of the United States?

KASICH: I mean, first of all, we have to express our apologies for what happened. And the thing you'd immediately do is convene all the military experts you have, the civilian experts, and figure out how we stabilize the situation, and we wouldn't be sending a signal we wouldn't just get out of there. Didn't even have a base and it didn't make any sense. I don't want to make the same mistake in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: There's about 10,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan, 4,000 other NATO troops. By the end of next year, it's supposed to be down to a few protecting the embassy. They have spent 15 years training all these Afghan military personnel and police. But they can't get their act together.

KASICH: Wolf, I don't think we want to -- we don't need to build up the force. I'm a believer we should use specific forces to go after the Taliban. But I wouldn't draw this or say we're going to have a thousand there by the end of the Obama presidency. This is a place you sit down. I served on the Armed Services Committee for 18 years. I've been involved in defense issues all my life in the Pentagon after 9/11 helping to bring technology people in. This is a place you sit down and figure out the right strategy. If you start predicting what they are going to be without those conversations, I think you come up short.

BLITZER: The U.S. has spent tens of billions of dollars training these Afghan troops, tens of billions training Iraqi troops. When the going gets tough. (CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ISIS comes in. They abandon their positions. They leave armored vehicles behind and run away.

[13:55:06] KASICH: Look, initially when we did the expansion, I wouldn't have supported that. If I were president, I would have questioned advisers about the need to be able to go to problem areas, not try to occupy the country or build up the forces, but to be able to respond wherever the crisis is at any moment in time with elite troops that have mobility. That's what I would have done.

BLITZER: Should the U.S. support a no-fly zone to prevent rebels?

KASICH: We should have been supporting the rebels years ago. At least a year ago or so, I called John Boehner and John McCain and said, look, I will do anything I can as governor. I know people to say that we should be helping the rebels to depose Assad because that's Iran/Assad/Russian connection. Now I think a no-fly zone would provide a sanctuary for people to be safe. If people violate the no- fly zone, Wolf, there's a consequence.

BLITZER: If the Russians want to continue these airstrikes, what happens to them?

KASICH: You don't fly into a no-fly zone. Look, I'm a person that means what I say and say what I mean. If I were president of the United States and we had a no-fly zone, it would be made clear to everyone do not fly in the middle of a no-fly zone. The idea that the United States is not able to take a strong position to assert itself is creating confusion with our allies and also encouraging our enemies. So I believe the no-fly zone is the right way to go. I think it sends a message to our friends in the region. It also allows us to protect some folks and at same time to support the rebels and make it clear we're going to destroy is. We have the coalition together, we ought to move.

BLITZER: Let's talk about guns in America. Would you support ending that loophole so people can't go to a gun show or a private distributor and start buying guns without any background check at all?

KASICH: You're supposed to be held accountable if you're involved in a private sale, but I don't know how you're going to regular private sales. It's a different situation and it's not that simple. The problem is I don't think the lack of gun laws, I think the problem is we have a society where people become increasingly isolated. They become estranged, they have no family, they don't have much community. It was a community where we all cared about one another. I have been involved and invested a lot in mental illness in Ohio. It's one of the reasons I expanded Medicaid. It's those kinds of things. If you focus on the gun, you're missing the bigger picture which is the fact people have been isolated and try to take away guns isn't going to solve the problem.

BLITZER: You need to go through a background check. But at a gun show, you don't have to go through a background check. There's a problem it there.

KASICH: There's a private issue here. If I'm going to sell you a gun, do I have to go through all this checking? Are we supposed to have some responsibility as they are at the gun show? They should exercise that responsibility. I don't think more laws are going to fix this.

BLITZER: How do you stop these mass killings that we have seen in Oregon this week and what's going on in general?

KASICH: Every one of these folks has been people who were estranged, isolated with a family that doesn't know what to do with them. Reading about the mom of this latest mass murder, she felt she couldn't control her son and there was no way for anybody to intervene. We have to get to the root cause of this. We need to love our neighbors and be there to help them. I think sometimes people feel lonely, estranged, outcasts and take action. That's what we need to get to the root of in this country.

BLITZER: One political question. The "NBC News" poll that came out in New Hampshire. September, you were 12 percent. You're down to 6 percent now. What happened?

KASICH: Well, nothing really happens. Polls are fluid and volatile. The key to this presidential race is what kind of organization, what is the depth of your organization, the strength of your organization in both Iowa and New Hampshire and going forward. We have the best organization in New Hampshire. There's no question we have the best and I'll rely on that to win an election and the polls will fluctuate.

BLITZER: You going to win in New Hampshire?

KASICH: We're going to do extremely well there.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: I'm going to do better. I'm not Muhammad Ali, but what I know is I have to do better than you think I'm going to do. We'll see where we are when that time comes.

BLITZER: Governor Kasich --

KASICH: Thank you.

BLITZER: -- thank you very much for joining us.

KASICH: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you.

I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern. By the way, the first Democratic presidential debate, a week from today in Las Vegas. Stay with CNN for that.

In the meantime, thanks for watching.

The news continues next on CNN.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thanks so much for being here with me.

For the second day --