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Health Care Reform Push; MacArthur Amendment; Votes in Congress for Health Care; Pentagon Warned Flynn; New Health Care Amendment; Release Of Documents; Service Members Killed. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 27, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: -- documents by the Democrats sparking some pushback from Republicans on the committee who believe that they should not have released these documents.

This statement coming in just earlier from the spokesman for the chairman of the committee, Jason Chaffetz. The spokesperson saying this, though we walked hand in hand with the Democrats during this investigation, this morning, they broke with longstanding protocol and decided to release these documents without consulting us.

Now, the Democrats are pushing back saying they did consult beforehand. There is nothing in their protocol that say they have to get permission from the Republicans.

And, Wolf, just moments ago, Democrats sending a letter to Jason Chaffetz, saying that they want him to push the White House harder to get these documents, both before January 20th and after January 20th. That's something that the White House, so far, have said that they don't or that they won't provide -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm sure Sean Spicer, at the White House briefing, about to get lots of questions on what Congressman Elijah Cummings had to say and these new documents released about General Flynn.

Manu Raju, we'll get back you to. Thanks very much.

Republicans are trying to breathe new life into health care reform, but Democrats, they are seriously pushing back. The new effort to repeal and replace Obamacare is certain to be a focus of today's White House briefing as well. And it sets -- it's set to get underway any minute now. We'll have live coverage, as you can see.

Meantime, Democrats say they may block the spending bill needed to keep the government running. The deadline is Friday night. If Republicans bring up health care legislation between now and then, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, says the Republican bill will even hurt Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I think President Trump is really making fools of the members of Congress of his own party. He's asking them to vote for a bill that is wildly unpopular in the country, is the wrong thing to do, first and foremost, is going to be doodoo stuck to their shoe for a long time to come. And with terrible consequences to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Correction, Nancy Pelosi is the former speaker. She's the Democratic leader in the House, the minority leader. The current speaker, Paul Ryan, says Americans will be better off under the amended House Republican bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What this amendment does is it gives states more flexibility in tools to reduce premiums and increase choices. And it does this while maintaining and preserving protections for people with preexisting conditions. This is the important point. Those protections remain on the books even as we add new ones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. He's inside the briefing room right now getting ready to question Sean Spicer.

Jim, the administration was involved in helping draft this new health care amendment to try and win over those House conservatives. What's the bottom line on what it does?

JIM ACOSTA, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the bottom line, Wolf, and this was necessary to bring in the support of that House Freedom Caucus, it is going to give states the ability to basically exempt themselves from some of the regulations in Obamacare such as the requirement that people not be discriminated against because of pre-existing conditions.

That is making moderates in the House Republican Caucus very nervous and it, again, threatens the ability of the speaker to whip up the necessary 216 votes that are needed to get that bill through the House. That, obviously, is the reason why you saw the House minority whip, Steny Hoyer, earlier this morning essentially issuing that threat. That Democrats are not going to go along with a continuing resolution to keep the government open at the end of this week, if the House Republican leadership insists on a health care vote at the same time.

And so, we are, once again, maybe not standing on the edge, Wolf, but the edge is perhaps in sight of a government shutdown.

Now, you saw the president tweeting earlier this morning, that why are the Democrats trying to shut down the national parks and so forth? You know, I think one of the questions for Sean Spicer, during this briefing that's coming up here in a few minutes, is while the Republicans control the House, Republicans control the Senate, they control the White House, why are Democrats being blamed for a government shutdown? But that is the mix of elements, the volatile mix of elements, that we're dealing with, at this point.

And, at the same time, you have the president just a few moments, he was sitting at a luncheon with the Argentinean president here at the White House, essentially saying that he is going to renegotiate NAFTA after we went through this whole exercise yesterday, Wolf, that essentially the White House was saying, through unnamed officials, that the president was ready to withdraw from NAFTA. That he was ready to, perhaps, sign an executive order, notifying both Canada and Mexico of the U.S. intent to withdraw from NAFTA.

And then, late last night, after these calls with the Mexican president and the Canadian prime minister, the president now saying, well, he wants to renegotiate. He doesn't want to withdraw from NAFTA, at this time.

And so, I think one of the questions for this White House at this briefing here is going to be about NAFTA and where things stand on that issue.

[13:05:01] And then, of course, you heard Manu, just a few moments ago, laying out what was some pretty tough comments coming from the House Oversight ranking member, Elijah Cummings, about these questions regarding Michael Flynn and these documents that they're seeking from the White House.

So, once again, Sean Spicer, he will be sipping from a fire hose when he comes out here in a few minutes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, that briefing is supposed to -- supposed to begin any moment now. We'll, of course, stand by for live coverage.

Jim, we've been down this road before. House Republicans pulled the earlier health care bill because they didn't have the necessary votes to get it passed on the House floor. Then it was conservative Republicans who were the holdouts. But now, it's the more moderate Republicans who apparently hold the cards. Does the White House think the lawmakers can get the necessary 216 votes this time?

ACOSTA: Wolf, when I talked to Republican sources close to this process, both here and up on Capitol Hill, they are nervous about this. And what you hear from people, time and again, is that, yes, we'll bring it up for a vote when we have that necessary number.

But there is this added pressure. As the president is approaching his -- that mark of 100 days in office, there is, again, this desire to put wins on the scoreboard. And what they're facing the prospect of, at this point, Wolf, after earlier this week, Sean Spicer was in this room. And he was asked, well, can you guarantee there won't be a government shutdown? He didn't guarantee that there won't be a government shutdown, but he said, with some pretty high confidence, that there is not going to be a government shutdown.

If we -- if the -- if the shot -- if the shutdown clock appears on our air, Wolf, and we're starting to tick down to that magic hour where things are going to get very serious, I think that you're going to have a president here reaching 100 days in office with a lot of advisers around him sweating bullets and biting their nails. Because that is obviously not the scenario that they saw at the beginning of this week.

They were trying to clear some of these -- some of these obstacles out of the way so they can get this spending bill passed. And there was talk, even coming from the president, that they could wait until perhaps next week to go ahead and take on health care.

And so, you know, here we -- here we are, once again, with talk of the health care bill that may come up for a vote when the White House clearly knows, and Republican leadership clearly knows up on Capitol Hill, that they just don't know if the numbers are there.

And that's why you're hearing from aides, you know, privately, Wolf, and anonymously, saying that they're not so sure that that vote's going to happen.

BLITZER: Yes. Jim Acosta at the White House. Even if the vote were to happen, even if they were to get the 216 votes in the House, it then has to go to the Senate where there are going to be a whole bunch of other problems facing this legislation.

All right. stand by. We'll have live coverage of Sean Spicer's briefing once it begins.

We're learning, in the meantime, that two U.S. service members were killed during an operation targeting ISIS inside Afghanistan. The incident happened in the auction district. Another soldier was killed there earlier this month. It's also the area where the Pentagon dropped that massive MOAB, Mother Of All Bombs as it's called.

Pentagon Reporter Ryan Browne is joining us right now. Ryan, what more can you tell us about the U.S. service members and how they were killed?

RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: Well, Wolf, these service members were part of a special operations' raid, a joint U.S.-Afghan raid there, a Nochin (ph) district in Nangarhar Province, right there on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. A very remote area. It's kind of where ISIS has established its main, kind of, center, its main headquarters.

It's a very difficult area to access. That's one of the reasons that so-called mother of all bombs was used earlier this months because of these tunnels, these mountains, these valleys. They're very difficult to access.

Again, it is, kind of, where the bulk of the U.S.-Afghan offensive against ISIS is located right now. So. we saw this happen in a -- kind of an intense fire fight. An additional U.S. service member was wounded. Not seriously, we're being told.

But, again, a very intense fire fight. ISIS suffering many losses as well. We understand part of this offensive that had begun in March, involving air raids, air strikes, ground raids, that large explosive bomb that was used earlier.

So, again, this particular area, the real epicenter of the fight against ISIS in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: All right, Ryan, thank you. Ryan Browne over at the Pentagon.

Let's get back to our top news, the latest news involving Michael Flynn. Just one part of a much bigger picture. Right now, there are four separate investigations being conducted by both the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. The House Oversight Committee, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism all investigating.

There's also an FBI criminal investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential election. The FBI director, James Comey, says that criminal investigation actually began last summer, last July.

Let's discuss all of this with our panel. I'm joined by our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash, our Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston and Susan Page, the Washington Bureau Chief for "USA Today."

[13:10:01] These latest revelations about General Flynn -- he spent less than a month as the president's national security adviser. But now, these latest revelations that Elijah Cummings, the Ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, put out today, they're pretty damming.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they are. And they're two part. You know, you have to look at it -- first of all, he's the -- he's the former DIA head.

BLITZER: Defense Intelligence Agency.

BORGER: Agency, right. And he was warned not to accept payments from foreign entities. Now, we know that he did that.

Secondly, he did not disclose that on his security forms when he went into the White House.

So, there are two real problems here. And, Wolf, I think this disclosure issue is something that really does haunt the White House. I mean, we've reported, as have others, that Jared Kushner, for example, did not disclose his meetings with foreign entities on his disclosure form. He is still waiting to meet with the FBI about that.

So, this is an issue for this White House and that's, perhaps, one reason that they don't want to start releasing documents is that they may have other problems along this line.

BLITZER: Because you heard Congressman Elijah Cummings, Dana, say that the White House, so far, is not cooperating, --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. BLITZER: -- not submitting the documents that they're seeking, involving his tenure there. Michael Flynn's tenure as the president's chief national security adviser --

BASH: Right.

BLITZER: -- for less than a month.

BASH: That's right. And I think Gloria is absolutely right that they are dragging their feet because there's more there that they don't want Congress and the American people to see.

But I think this goes to what we have seen with this administration since it has been an administration. Even beforehand when Donald Trump was the president-elect. That they have a lot of trouble getting their stories straight on their connections to Russia.

And it's the drip, drip, drip or as one senior administration official once said to me, a death by a thousand cuts. That is -- that is part of the problem here, a big part of the problem here. Because we don't know exactly what the administration knew, for example, about Michael Flynn. You know, correct me if I'm wrong, Gloria, a little -- a little bit before. Actually, a couple years before he actually joined the Trump administration, because he was actually at the DIA.

But if he used that kind of poor judgment, being warned don't do this, and he did it anyway, in a very public way. I mean, when he gave the speech to the R.T., it wasn't like it was, you know, cloak and dagger. There were cameras there.

BORGER: Well, and now, we've learned he's -- he was lobbying on behalf of Turkey, right? So, --

BASH: Which is probably a bigger problem.

BORGER: Which is another issue.

BLITZER: And he only, after he left the White House, registered as a foreign agent --

BORGER: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- with the U.S. Justice Department as a foreign agent of Turkey because of what he was doing earlier. But he never did that contemporaneously. These are all big problems.

The money involved, it's significant. He got, what, about $45,000 from R.T., the Russian Television Network, which the U.S. regards as state propaganda. And more than half a million dollars from these Turkish elements for which he later registered as a foreign agent.

So, that's significant sums of money.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Significant sums of money. And the Turkey part occurred when he was acting as an adviser to President Trump. You know, it was just last year. You know -- you know, the best-case scenario --

BLITZER: To candidate Trump.

PRESTON: Excuse me, to candidate Trump. To candidate Trump and now President Trump. Best case scenario right now for the White House is that they did a terrible job vetting Michael Flynn to be basically the top intelligence person. The person who sits on the right-hand shoulder of President Trump and whispers in his ear and tells him what he should do when it comes to intelligence.

Worst case scenario was we know Michael Flynn is looking for immunity, at this point. And if he were to be granted immunity, could he then deliver a bigger fish, whoever that may be, if there is something that has happened that has been illegal? So, there really is an incredible amount of intrigue right now around Michael Flynn.

BLITZER: Senator Richard Burr, the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he has no intention of granting Michael Flynn immunity in exchange for his testimony.

If he is called, Susan, to testify, he can either testify willingly or he can plead the fifth if he wants to do that. That's his constitutional right.

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": And if you want to talk about the real worst case for the White House, that would be if Michael Flynn were still the national security adviser and they were having to deal with these excursions. Here we are in day 98 and the White House has been frantic all week to generate good coverage, positive coverage as they approach the 100th day on Saturday.

And what are they facing? Yet another scandalous disclosure involving relations with Russia. And this is going to continue for months, maybe for years because we have these -- all these investigations on the Hill and in the FBI into various angles about what Russia did during our election last year and whether there was collusion by associates of Trump. This is an issue that has no signs of going away.

BLITZER: All right, everybody stand by. There's a lot more coming up.

Once again, we're waiting for the White House press briefing to begin, as the president pushes for a path forward on several issues, including repealing and replacing Obamacare. Can he revive that effort? The government facing a potential shutdown this weekend as well. And all these new developments involving Michael Flynn.

[13:15:09] Much more including the briefing right after this.

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BLITZER: Once again, live pictures coming in from the White House Briefing Room. The press secretary, Sean Spicer, will start answering reporters' questions any moment now we're told. We'll have live coverage of that coming up. Presumably he'll make an opening statement.

First, let's bring back our panel.

Gloria, what's your take on this new push over the next few days to see if they can repeal and replace Obamacare, at least in the House of Representatives?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think there's a great effort to get in under the 100 day deadline here. So they're -

BLITZER: Which is Saturday.

BORGER: There's - right. There's a race. And I think that the White House has clearly been working with conservatives. But, you know, the laws of gravity, you know, for each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. That's not gravity. It's Newton Law. But - and the opposite reaction is from the moderates. And today we have that the American Medical Association has come out against the bill and said that the new measure as planned would cost people who have pre- existing conditions a lot more money for their coverage and it would make it unaffordable. That is a big problem for Republicans because touching the pre-existing conditions is like touching the third rail.

[13:20:10] BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: You can't - you can't do it.

BLITZER: It's a very important issue.

One of the negotiators working on this amendment to deal with this, the rollback of some of those Obamacare protections, is Congressman Tom MacArthur. Listen to what he told our Alisyn Camerota on "New Day" earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Why are you changing the way it works for people with pre-existing conditions since that's one of the elements of Obamacare that people seem to really like?

REP. TOM MACARTHUR (R), NEW JERSEY: Well, there's a lot of confusion about what's happening in health care. And, yes, people like that and I like that too. I think it's critical. But what a lot of people don't see and after - and after a lifetime in the insurance industry, I do see this system is crumbling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It's a big problem right now for the Republicans to try to come up with something that will satisfy the conservative element, the Freedom Caucus, and the more moderate Republicans.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me - let me give you the real answer to the question that Alisyn asked, and the answer is, because he was trying to and did successfully deal with members of the House Freedom Caucus. And they were looking at ways to - more ways to chip away at the core of Obamacare, even, and especially, the pre- existing condition part of it. So that's the reason why he did it, giving states more rights and so forth.

The problem is, as you were talking about, Newton's Law, which that was - I'd say that was pretty impressive, but -

BORGER: I know, I only got it (INAUDIBLE). It wasn't - not gravity but -

BASH: It was impressive. But the idea is that it's - and the question you were talking about is, what are the moderate Republicans going to do for whom this is an athema (ph)? You don't want to even touch these pre-existing conditions. It's not just about this bill. It's setting the stage and setting the parameters for negotiations on everything else going forward because right now there are enough Republicans that they could potentially pass, you know, whatever they need to with Republicans, only Republicans, and not Democrats, but only if they can come up with consensus among Republicans. And if moderates back down now on something as consumer - that is understandable to consumers as the pre-existing condition clause, then what are they going to do down the road on taxes and on everything else that they want to have an imprint on?

BLITZER: They need, Mark, they need 216 votes. Normally they need 218. If all 435 members of the House of Representatives are there, but there are a few vacant seats right now. So they need 216, which given the number that the Republicans have, it shouldn't be impossible to reach that number.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It shouldn't be impossible, except the centrists, the moderates have an entirely different idea about how to move forward on this than the Freedom Caucus and the real conservative hard-liners do, which really does make Paul Ryan's job that much harder, Wolf. But just look, this is only one step. This is symbolic in some ways. It's got to go to the Senate. The Senate's got to do their thing. Then it needs to go back to the House and the Senate as they try to work things out. Even if they get the vote today, be lucky to get something done this year.

BLITZER: It doesn't look like any Democrats in the House or the Senate are going to support even this revised version, Susan. And in the Senate, there are, what, 52 Republicans, 48 Democrats, so you lose three Republicans, moderate Republicans, the whole thing collapses.

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Right, lesson learned from the way that Republicans acted during the Obama administration, Democrats would say. And when you look at the House - moderates in the House who represent districts that tend to be more mixed, not so solidly Republican, they're looking at President Trump's approval rating. An historic low for a president at this point. Forty- five percent in the CNN poll that was put out yesterday. That isn't very reassuring for someone who's going to need to get Democratic and independent votes to get reelected next year in his or her own home district.

BLITZER: And there's a new setback, Gloria, now, to the possibility of keeping the government open following this weekend Saturday. The Democrats are now saying if you do have a vote on health care between now and Saturday, they're going to oppose any temporary spending bill.

BORGER: They've clearly made the calculation that the politics are on their side in this. I mean shutting down the government is a big step. And if you'll recall, it was over Obamacare when the Republicans decided to shut down the government last time. So here we are. History repeating itself to a great degree. And you have the Democrats now saying, you know what, we have an argument to make on, we care about you, we care about your health care, we're going to keep those pre- existing conditions in, we're going to shut down the government over it because we believe it's important enough to our constituencies. And I think they've just made this decision that -

BASH: Yes. I mean they're sort of salivating at the notion of the headline on the 100 day mark being -

BORGER: Yes, totally.

BASH: President Trump reaches 100 days, government shuts down.

BORGER: Right.

BASH: I mean that's sort of the dream for Democrats, right? You know, the Democrats are -

BORGER: Over health care.

BASH: Right, over health care. But it's easy for them to say that, I think, because they realize that I don't think that there's going to be a vote anyway.

[13:25:03] BORGER: Exactly.

BASH: So it's easy to say, you know, I'm not -

BORGER: We're taking it.

BASH: I'm going to take a stand when it's not -

BLITZER: But there - but there will be a vote to keep the government operating.

BASH: Yes, I'm sorry, there will not be a vote on health care.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Right.

BASH: Their threat is empty.

BLITZER: Right. Everybody stand by.

Once again, we're waiting for the press secretary, Sean Spicer, to begin his briefing. He was supposed to begin it at the top of the hour. Clearly running a little bit late. We'll have live coverage of. Much more news right after this.

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BLITZER: Once again we're waiting for Sean Spicer to come up to the lectern over there, make a statement and start answering reporters' questions. And there are lots of questions on this important day, day 98 of the Trump presidency. Only two days until the first 100 day mark arrives.

[13:30:03] Let's get back, talk about some of the issues, some of the question he's no doubt going to be asked about. NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement certainly on the agenda right now. The president says, at least up until a few days --