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Hala Gorani Tonight
Airbus Detects Signals from EgyptAir Flight 804; Italian Coast Guard Rescues Dozens at Sea; U.K.'s E.U. Referendum Approaches; Donald Trump Clinches Republican Party Nomination; French Protests against Labor Reforms. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 26, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
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HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: All right, thanks, Kate.
And hello, everyone, welcome to THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. We'll have more on that massive U.S. political story that Kate has been covering with our
guests.
But first breaking news just in the last hour. Airbus has detected signals from the Mediterranean Sea, where EgyptAir Flight 804 crashed a week ago.
That is according to state-run media.
Investigators say the signals are coming from the plane's emergency locator transmitter. The Airbus A320 was flying from Paris to Cairo with 66 people
on board when it disappeared from radar.
Let us get straight to Cairo. International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is coming to us live from the Egyptian capital with more on what
we know.
All right, talk to us about this.
What does this essentially mean in terms of how close authorities might be to finding the wreckage here, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It takes them a step closer, Hala, a significant step closer. Just two days ago, the head of
the Egyptian -- EgyptAir was saying that the search area was the size of Connecticut.
Now with this information, the ELT, the emergency locator transmitter, they say that they can refine that area now down to something the radius of
about 5 kilometers, about 3 miles. So a much, much smaller search area, which should allow the acoustic detectors, which should then to be put in
the water, which should then be able to help pick up the beacons that transmit from the black boxes.
So moves it significantly forward. But here is what is interesting. The head of the investigation here, on state media in Egypt, said he got this
information about these ELT, this transmission, via satellite, giving the location.
He got this from airbus. But those transmitters themselves, designed to activate when the aircraft hits water or land -- a hard crash, so to speak
-- the batteries on those are expected to last for two days.
We're now seven days into this. So it raises some questions here about when this information came in, why are we only hearing about it now and we
do not have answers to those questions at the moment -- Hala.
GORANI: Wait a minute. So this is interesting what you are saying, that the batteries on this particular device that would allow authorities to
locate the plane are designed to last 48 hours.
We're seven days out right now.
So the question is, were they given this information five days ago and only communicating it now?
Or, I mean, what are we to make of this?
ROBERTSON: I think this is a question really where you need to be able to get into technical specifics of how these systems work. But one way that
these transmitters work is they -- when they impact, when the plane impacts, that sets the transmitter off.
It will send out a radio frequency signal to anything that can pick it up in the area. Nothing was in that area.
It also sends a signal to the satellite. Now Airbus have said that they got this signal from the satellite. The satellite then downlinks that to
an earth site capable of receiving the signal.
But if there isn't an earth site capable of receiving the signal, it will store it on board the satellite until an earth capable of receiving the
signal comes in within the area of that satellite.
Again, these are very, very technical details. We've talked to Airbus. Airbus tell us that they can only talk to the investigators. But it is not
clear at the moment had Airbus given this to the Egyptian investigators several days ago and we're only learning about it now?
The only thing we can say about that is that we know for sure is that just two days ago, the chairman at EgyptAir that said that the search area was
still the size of Connecticut.
Now --
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTSON: -- we know it's smaller. Those are the details we have.
GORANI: Well, you explain the technicalities very well, cleared things up. Thanks very much, Nic Robertson, in Cairo there with the very latest on
this breaking news.
Egypt state media saying that airbus has detected signals from the sea, perhaps allowing authorities to at least narrow the search area where
EgyptAir Flight 804. That is certainly what the families are hoping of those victims.
Now the images are horrific; migrants fighting the waves after their ship sank, clinging to whatever they can to stay afloat.
And, of course, desperately waiting for help, any kind of help to arrive.
Let us turn now to dramatic rescue operation after yet another tragedy at sea. The Italian Coast Guard saved 96 migrants today from that capsized
ship off the Libyan coast. But as many as 30 others are feared dead.
Thousands more migrants also risked their lives this week in a treacherous attempt to reach the continent of Europe.
Take a look at this story, wrapping up the dramatic developments of the last day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI (voice-over): The latest pictures from the E.U.'s naval force show migrants clinging to a sinking boat Thursday in the Mediterranean,
desperately waving for help.
Many of those who were rescued were brought to Sicily. More chaos on the seas in a week that has seen thousands rescued by the Italian Navy and
Coast Guard.
Dramatic new video here captured the very moment another boat, overloaded with migrants, capsized off the coast of Libya on Wednesday. Hundreds of
people are flung into the water, a few already wearing life jackets as the Italians rushed to help.
Some clung onto the overturned vessel; others swam for their lives. More than 500 migrants were rescued after the accident on Wednesday but at least
five people died. Nearly 200,000 migrants and refugees have crossed into Europe by land and sea so far this year.
The vast majority, over 150,000, arrived in Greece, often in small dinghies across the Aegean from Turkey.
But since March, when the E.U. made a deal with Turkey to try to stop the flow, fewer people have taken that route into Europe. In the two weeks to
May 18th, migration to Greece was down 67 percent on the previous period.
But numbers arriving in Italy were up 54 percent, suggesting a shift to that route. The crossing from Libya to Italy much longer and much harder
to patrol than the short Aegean crossing often proves to be much more deadly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: As we've seen there, let's get the latest there on what is happening exactly in that stretch of water and very few people are as well
positioned as Commander Cosimo Nicastro with the Italian Coast Guard.
Commander Nicastro, You told our producer that the Italian Coast Guard and Navy rescued 4,000 people -- just so we're clear on this unbelievable
number -- 4-0-0-0 people in the Mediterranean today?
COMMANDER COSIMO NICASTRO, ITALIAN COAST GUARD: Yes, it was today was a very, very busy day. I am talking -- speaking now from Italian Coast Guard
operation St. Roma (ph), where is located Italian Maritime Rescue Coordination Center.
Just today, there was 22 search and rescue operations under Italian Coast Guard coordination. And there was 4,000 people just rescued today. Just
in the last three days, there were more like 10,000 people rescued, from Monday today in that the different, several search and rescue operation
under Italian Coast Guard coordination.
GORANI: So in the last three days alone, 10,000 people rescued. We saw those unbelievable images of that boat that flipped over, that capsized
yesterday and we know the Italian Navy and Coast Guard rescued several hundred people.
Today there was another sinking, 96 individuals rescued.
How many people died today?
NICASTRO: We do not know for sure how many people die. We know for sure that we saved 96 people. This morning, one helicopter just saw a boat
capsized around 30 miles off Libyan coast.
And they give information to Italian Coast Guard operation center that said two Italian Coast Guard boat from Lampedusa, one ship of inaformed (ph).
And they find -- they found 96 people already in the water. But they were rescued. One boy of 5 years old needed urgent medical assistance and so we
send Italian Coast Guard helicopter to -- from Lampedusa to take the boy to the shore. And we know that he probably lost the parents.
GORANI: And he lost his parents.
Very quickly, if you could tell us, is this increase in traffic from Libya to Italy, is it because the transit route from Turkey to Greece is now
closed essentially after that E.U.-Turkey deal?
NICASTRO: What we know for sure that the weather condition (INAUDIBLE) is more people, they try to reach Italy from Africa. That we know for sure.
And that will top in the last three days, when almost 10,000 people try to leave from Africa and reach Italy.
And they were rescued under different, several operations, search and rescue operations from Italian Coast Guard coordination.
GORANI: All right, thank you very much, Commander Cosimo Nicastro, the Italian Coast Guard. We appreciate it.
Absolutely staggering numbers here, 10,000 people rescued there in that stretch of water with the Italian Navy and Coast Guard there as well as
some of those very dramatic boats capsizing, you see it there, as well.
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GORANI: Well, it's less than a month until Britain's referendum on the E.U. and the campaigning is becoming increasingly fierce. The latest to
join the debate is the new London mayor, Sadiq Khan.
Unlike his predecessor, Boris Johnson, he wants Britain to state in the union. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: I don't deny that we face major challenges across Europe from (INAUDIBLE) it's sometimes difficult fallout from our
rapid growth and globalization to climate change and the refugee crisis. Air quality, terrorism, youth unemployment are all shared problems with our
European neighbors.
Isolationism isn't the answer to any of the challenges we face. None of these challenges respects national borders and they can't be solved by one
country alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, well, let us go to City Hall in London. Phil Black is covering that.
So Sadiq Khan clearly wants the U.K. to stay inside of the E.U.
What else did he say about this, hoping, I'm sure, to convince people who may be undecided a month out to vote Stay?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So he wants Londoners, Hala, and in particular young Londoners to turn out to vote. So for that speech today,
he went to a very hip corner of East London and talked about design, food, fashion, all of these sorts of things, architecture, culture, all these
things that he says London has always, through its history, taken from Europe and been heavily influenced by.
He said that London has always been a city that is embracing, welcoming, takes the best and brightest from Europe. That's what has built London
today and he wants young Londoners to think about this and to turn out and vote.
And it is important, he says, because it's known that young people are thought to be among those who most favor staying in the European Union.
There are known to be a lot of them in London and in a race that is as tight as it is nationally, the polls show still too close to call, he
believes that the final national result on the day could be decided by the turnout for Remain voters here in London -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, so Ive got to tell our viewers, this is a bit lengthy and there are many numbers but this is what was making big headlines, Phil,
today in the U.K. and those are net migration numbers: 300,000 people -- 333,000 people in the U.K.
That is the second highest ever; 20,000 more than the same time last year. Now this is a report that was just out today. Now this is not on 184,000
people migrated into the U.K. from the European Union.
So the -- those who are campaigning for Brexit, who are saying the U.K. should leave the E.U., are latching onto these numbers. They're saying,
look, even the conservative prime minister promised us that they would be much lower. And here you have it.
Look, we are getting many more people into this country, taking our jobs, putting pressure on our public services. And this is why you have to vote
to leave.
Will this sway the vote either way?
BLACK: Well, there is no doubt; migration is one of the biggest issues in this referendum campaign. Many of the people who've decided that Britain
should leave the E.U. have done so because they think there is too many people coming here.
Crucially, many of the people who haven't made up their minds, are really concerned about this as well. So 330,000, the second highest on record. It
is to be clear, the difference between the number of people moving here and the number of people who have left the United Kingdom.
It is important because the British prime minister, who is the leader of the Remain campaign has promised for a long time to bring that annual net
migration figure down to less than 100,000.
These figures show that he is nowhere close. And his critics, particularly those on the opposite side of the referendum debate, said these figures
show it's simply not possible, especially while Britain is a member of the E.U. and subject to its free movement laws.
Take a listen now to one of the leading figures of the Leave campaign. This is former government minister Ian Duncan Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IAN DUNCAN SMITH, FORMER GOVERNMENT MINISTER: What these numbers show, I think, finally that this immigration policy, the government has to reduce
migration to tens of thousands, simply cannot be achieved because our open border with the European Union shows that people coming in here can't be
stopped.
You can't have a number check. The result is we cannot achieve our manifesto (ph) commitment unless we vote to leave the European Union and
that is what I recommend for everybody if you want border control, migration control, overall you have to vote to leave the European Union.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: Now there's an important issue to consider with this overall number. it is a little bigger than the year before because fewer people
left the United Kingdom, not because more people moved here.
But despite that, it adds to that overall perception which is fueling that desire among so many people to leave that Britain isn't in control of its
borders and does not have enough of a say over who gets to come here or how many -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. It is a net migration number. It is an important distinction. Thanks very much, Phil Black.
And after the break, a big day for Donald Trump; the Republican front- runner has officially clinched the nomination. Magic number, 1,237. We'll discuss with our panel of experts. Stay with us.
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GORANI: Welcome back. A look at our top stories on the program.
Donald Trump has officially clinched the Republican nomination for U.S. president. Earlier he reached that critical threshold of 1,237 delegates.
There is in North Dakota a little bit earlier today (INAUDIBLE) formally accept the party's nomination until the delegates cast their votes.
And that happens at the convention in July. It's in Cleveland this year.
Also among our top stories -- and you heard it here as well --Airbus has detected signals from the Mediterranean Sea, where EgyptAir Flight 804
crashed a week ago now. That is according to state media in Egypt.
Investigators say the signals are coming from the plane's emergency locator transmitter.
And also among the stories we're following, protests in France against controversial reforms have turned violent today. Police fired tear gas
after clashes with demonstrators in Paris. They are up in arms over the French government's plan to reform labor law. That's always tricky in
France. That those reforms would make it easier to hire and fire people.
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GORANI: Well, just like that, he pulled it off. Republican front-runner Donald Trump has managed to accomplish something all of the pundits and
analysts predicted he never would.
A CNN delegate count shows the billionaire now has enough support to clinch the nomination. And that is because he has reached the threshold of 1,237
delegates.
Trump spoke a short time ago at a conference in North Dakota.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you very much, everybody. The folks behind me got us right over the top from North
Dakota. So North Dakota made a big statement and I just really appreciate it. We will not forget it. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well let's keep talking about what this means for the race going forward. CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp is with us from Washington
and CNN political analyst Josh Rogan as well.
S.E. Cupp, so it was expected he was the only remaining candidate on the Republican side and now he is officially reached that number 1,237. I
found it interesting that in this press conference, the first two questions were about what Barack Obama at the G7 currently in Japan had to say about
what world leaders think about.
And that they're right to be rattled, that his statements in the past have shown and displayed ignorance about world affairs.
What did you make of his answers to those questions?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first let me just say I am no Trump fan but I did not -- I am always uneasy when a United States
president goes overseas and trashes any American, whatever party they're from.
So I thought that that was really uncool. But Donald Trump, you know, sort of shook it off and like he does, turned it back on President Obama and
sort of failed policies and failed two terms and how he is you know, driven America to the ground and how our allies overseas don't respect us and our
enemies aren't afraid of us anymore.
Look, that rhetoric has a real resonance here at home as much his policy is rightfully frightened our allies overseas. That kind of rhetoric really
works for a lot of people here in America.
So that is part of why he is doing so well with, you know, the voters that he is -- that he has gotten support from.
GORANI: But does that work in a general election setting, though, I wonder?
CUPP: It's going to be tough. I mean, look, you know, Hillary Clinton started out by saying I am not going to be an Obama third term. Now she is
fully embracing President Obama and saying I am absolutely going to be an Obama third term.
And if you care about his legacy, then you need to elect me, because Donald Trump will destroy it. And so, for a lot of Democrats, who believe that
Obama's legacy needs to be protected, she is the vessel to do that.
And trashing Obama is really going to be the same as trashing Hillary.
GORANI: Now, Josh, at the Muslim ban that he proposed in December of 2015, very officially as a policy proposal, he dodged the question three times,
three different questions on whether or not he still supports a total ban on foreign Muslims entering the United States.
What should we make of that?
Is he trying to soften his position on this?
JOSH ROGAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, well, I think the press conference was pretty revealing in response to President Obama's contention
that he is rattling world leaders. Trump said, oh, it's good to rattle world leaders because that's how we do it in business.
So he continues to display a basic misunderstanding of the difference between running a business and running the world's most important country.
And so even though Obama's comments, where I agree with S.E. Cupp here, that were a little bit ill-placed because of where he was sitting, the
comments were right on.
Trump's failed to sort of acknowledge that he has a really steep uphill battle to really understand how the world works and America's role in it.
On your specific question, I think what was going on here is that Trump keeps pretending that he is going to mollify (sic) his positions but not
actually doing it. And I think we -- this is a response to his campaign chairman, Paul Manafort's, interview with "Huffington Post," where he
implied that the Muslim band would be rolled back.
But so Trump is trying to have his cake and eat it, too. He wants to give red meat to his supporters --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But he's clearly avoiding the question. He clearly avoided the question, several -- not once but three -- but three times.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- doesn't have the answers. He can't -- he can't exactly say -- and I don't mean to cut you off, John, but can't say how he
would do it specifically, how he would do it -- you know, what the ramifications would be.
And he knows that he is heading into a general election now. And to say he's going to ban all Muslims does not go over well in a general. That is
why he has said, well, it's just a suggestion now.
The problem for voters is if promises are no longer promises but suggestions, what exactly are we electing.
ROGAN: Right. I think --
GORANI: And S.E. Cupp and Josh Rogan, yes. That actually -- but I just want to move under this latest Democratic poll in California, an incredibly
important contest for any candidate. And Hillary Clinton against Bernie Sanders is running neck and neck.
I mean, how much does this weaken her, the fact that right now she still has not clinched this nomination and she is so statistically close to
Bernie Sanders in one of the biggest prize states -- Josh.
ROGAN: Yes, no, I think it is a short-term problem, not a long-term problem. I mean, the writing is on the wall. She will win the Democratic
presidential nomination and then once we get past that this will sort of be a story that is overtaken by events.
But it does harm her now because she cannot fully pivot and fully take on Trump at full steam.
So, you know, in the end, I think we see this Bernie Sanders camp really acknowledging or seeming to understand the fact that their campaign is
coming to a close. That is why you see them baiting Trump. That is why you see them taking some of these really far-fetched sort of attacks because
they know the jig is up.
But, at the same time, once she clenches we'll all move on from this. And even though she is damaged and vulnerable, she won't be significantly more
damaged and vulnerable than she is right now.
GORANI: Josh Rogan, S.E. Cupp, thanks very much. We hope to have you on again very soon to talk about this. Thanks as always for being with us on
the program.
A return to the migrant crisis on the doorstep of Europe as the temperature gets warmer, more and more ships are setting off from Libya for the risky
journey across the Mediterranean Sea.
CNN has now learned that ISIS may be trying to hide among these desperate migrants to infiltrate Europe. Nick Paton Walsh joins us with some
exclusive reporting.
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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Hala, what is obviously so tragic is there were mounts of pain and suffering. So many of these
migrants have had to endure simply on the road to getting to Libya before they try that very deadly journey in towards Europe.
And to think that possibly ISIS trying to add to that misery by infiltrating, that traffic of human souls, well it's devastating thought.
As we heard from both smugglers and Libyan officials.
WALSH (voice-over): This is the moment when desperate dreams come to an end. We're with the Libyan immigration police inside a warehouse of
migrant hopefuls they just raided on the Tripoli beachfront.
As Turkey and Greece close their shores, the Libyan route to Europe has exploded again. Here, among the squalor that a lifetime savings buys, is
where fantasies of a future in Europe fall apart.
WALSH (on camera): Where are you from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nigeria.
WALSH (voice-over): This man fled ISIS-loyal Boko Haram, whose bombs killed his father and brother. And he survived the desert trek until here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After today, bomb blast, tomorrow bomb blast. We're not safe. After the death of my father and my brother, I said let me go.
And let me travel out. And every time I talk about them, I feel sad. I feel sad. WALSH: We leave quickly, as this is a smugglers' neighborhood.
But there's a new threat. Smugglers and police telling us that ISIS have hidden fighters among other groups of migrants bound for Europe.
WALSH (on camera): This trade in human souls is awful enough until you think that perhaps ISIS are using this passage of human life into Europe,
trying to infiltrate the continent with sleeper cells.
WALSH (voice-over): Police tell us off camera they have caught different other migrants with ISIS links. And a top Libyan official warns us the
threat is real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): ISIS can be among illegal immigrants on the boats. They travel with their families, without weapons,
as normal illegal immigrants. They will wear American dress and have English-language papers so they cause no suspicion.
WALSH: It's a huge and un-patrollable coastline where smugglers rule. We talked to one, disguised for his safety, who says, in the past two months,
ferrying ISIS has become part of the trade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): About two weeks ago, a boat left the ISIS stronghold Sirte, among them were about 40 ISIS. They were
heading to Europe but the bad weather turned them back. 10 days later, they tried again. I don't know if they got there. About a month ago, I
got a call from a devout guy I knew was ISIS. He wanted a small boat that could carry 40 people and was willing to pay about $40,000. I didn't take
the deal.
WALSH (on camera): Do you and other smugglers feel comfortable moving people who may be ISIS towards Europe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): Smugglers are only interested in smuggling, ISIS, anyone, they don't care. Melon or watermelon. Only money
matters.
WALSH (voice-over): The Libyan state is torn apart by infighting. It's Coast Guard struggling to even find boats.
WALSH (on camera): Fighting the migrant trade along the whole coastline of the Libyan capitol of Tripoli are just six boats like this, some which are
not in particularly good service. You can't imagine how under resourced things are here so close to Europe.
WALSH (voice-over): These are the desperate scenes, as they tried to rescue some African migrants, whose dinghy collapsed late last year.
Smugglers now prefer these dinghies, vulnerable to the slightest weather change.
A trade borne of human misery. Some fleeing ISIS themselves, only to find ISIS now seek to hijack their deadly journey to spread more suffering.
And obviously the security implications, Hala, of the influx of migrants into Europe has been such a sensitive topic. One European counter official
intelligence individual said to me, look, this is extraordinarily hard for us to address because of how politicized it is.
But after Bataclan, the attacks in Paris that you saw, it was clear there were some links to the Greek and Turkish passage up towards Europe that was
exploited by some of the attackers there.
And I think there's a feeling now amongst European officials they have to get to grips with this simply because ISIS have control about a 10th of
Libya's coastline. Many of the boats we've been hearing about in the last week seem to have left from areas potentially controlled by ISIS.
That in itself should be troubling. It's impossible to know how many ISIS militants eventually get through to the European mainland.
But the fact they're trying should be a cause for concern indeed -- Hala.
GORANI: Right, 10 percent of the coastline. Thanks very much, Nick Paton Walsh, live in Beirut with that exclusive report.
A quick break. We'll be right back.
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GORANI: Let's turn now to those protests in France, thousands demonstrated against labor reforms that would make it easier to fire people but also
easier to hire people.
Workers at nuclear plants and oil refineries joined in, leading to fuel shortages. People had to basically queue up at gas stations and some
people had to leave empty-handed.
But the protests in Paris turned violent. Riot police clashed with demonstrators, arrested at least a dozen people. They used tear gas. I am
joined now by Anyes Bahia (ph). She's a French political commentator and journalist, who's usually in Paris but today happens to be in London so we
invited her into the studio.
Much warmer than that balcony in Paris isn't it?
Let's talk a little bit about what happened here because this is a scenario that is very familiar in France. The government tries to push for reforms.
Trade unions are unhappy, there are demonstrations, there is partial paralysis, at least in some sectors.
This time will the government succeed?
ANYES BAHIA (PH), FRENCH POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, you know, the next presidential elections are in just a year. And you have on one
side, Prime Minister Manuel Valls, who wants to appear as the man who is going to get rid of the extreme Left, is from the Left.
But there is really war now between the Socialist (ph) government and Socialist Party because they are considered as traitors by the radical
Left.
Now it's also a question of survival for the Communist trade union, which is among seven big trade unions in France and it is really trying to
survive because the Communist Party now has almost no members left.
GORANI: This is a political battle almost.
BAHIA (PH): It is.
GORANI: I think -- I mean, looking at what happened today -- and I lived in France for many, many years -- and there were times when a government --
usually a left-leaning but sometimes a right-leaning government -- would try to propose reforms; strikes would take place. The whole country was
shut down and the government would back off.
That was kind of typically what you expected but this was a different era. Now though, are French people tolerant of some of these strikes and
demonstrations as they used to be?
BAHIA (PH): Well, they are, but only in parts and now it seems, you know, that the balance is tilting. You're absolutely right, you know, it comes
back -- it goes back to the French Revolution in France, unlike in the U.K., the legitimacy lies in the streets with the people and but Manuel
Valls said we can't go on like this. It has been going on for too long. The legitimacy is with the parliament.
But then trade unions say, well, why are you passing this law by decree?
Because there are quite a lot of MPs --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But is there an understanding in France that it is -- the legitimacy may be -- lie in the streets but that there has to be more
flexibility in the labor market to compete internationally?
Or has this still not reached kind of critical mass?
BAHIA (PH): Well, it is. So you know, there's a real fatigue in France at the moment because the tactics of the Communist trade union is really
infuriating a lot of French people. The Euro, the football tournament, is going to take place in two weeks' time. There is going to be massive
security because of the Paris attacks.
And it looks as if, you know, French police could do something else with their time, just sending tear gas because of clashes after and less
demonstrations against the law that is much needed.
GORANI: You're going to have millions of football fans on the streets of Paris and beyond. And if police are busy doing other things, that could
also create such a big issue.
Thanks very much, Anyes Bahia (ph). Good to have you here in London with us.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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GORANI: Well, the campaign head of Britain's Euro vote is becoming quite fiery. Take a look at this advert. It has caused some controversy. It
depicts a skinhead and a South Asian woman in a traditional sari on a seesaw. Some say its racist and divisive but Operation Black Vote defended
its poster.
It says, in fact, that the advert is aimed at encouraging ethnic minorities to vote, that each of those two votes are the same, that they weigh the
same.
Let us look more at the tone of this debate. Now we're about a month out. Paul Conyu (ph), a media commentator and former editor of the "Sunday
Mirror" newspaper joins me now in the studio.
So we're going to see more and more of this.
PAUL CONYU (PH), MEDIA COMMENTATOR: It's becoming as you say a very feisty and very nasty and ugly and I think, unfortunately, you ain't seen nothing
yet. It's going a lot worse.
GORANI: Well, because you saw, for instance, " The Daily Mail" and you had other newspapers, suggesting -- and let us show this one -- that perhaps
Turkey is just about ready to join the E.U. And that's something that the U.K. would have to put up with, if it votes to stay inside the European
Union.
This was from the Leave campaign, it shows a British passport.
Where is it?
There we go.
A British passport and a door open, population 76 million; Turkey is joining the E.U. That is from the Leave campaign. Not exactly factually
correct.
CONYU (PH): No, but Turkey joining the E.U. is some years away, if ever. And the idea of the entire population of Turkey is going to head to the
U.K. is absurd.
But unfortunately, I think the public are disillusioned at the moment. While the quality of the debate in the extreme, if you like, project fear
on both sides of the argument.
GORANI: What is the fear, do you think, I mean, in terms of their communication methods of those who want to remain?
What are they saying to frighten voters?
CONYU (PH): Basically we had the extremes of David Cameron, suggesting in fact that, you know, we could be heading for World War III if we Brexit.
We had George Osborn, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, suggesting we could have 2 million unemployed very quickly and that house prices would
collapse.
On the other side we have -- on the other side we've had Boris Johnson comparing the E.U. to Hitler. We've had him suggesting that the E.U. are
going to fear without any bananas (ph) you could have in a bunch, which in fact is a bananas idea anyway.
GORANI: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
CONYU (PH): And you had Nigel Farage, the UKIP leader, suggesting we could have riots on the street because of immigration issue, which of
course, in a sense, this is coming down now to a -- an argument -- I think the Remain side are winning the economic argument quite convincingly.
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But there's still a possibility -- there's still a possibility here because some polls are extremely close and polls have been notoriously
inaccurate in the last --
(CROSSTALK)
CONYU (PH): -- John Curtis (ph), who is the leading cephalologist (ph), the only person who got it right for the general election when every poll
got it wrong, he's basically saying it's -- was too close to call. And he's also questioning what's the most reliable polling going on at the
moment.
Is it the telephone polls or the Internet polling?
But some polls are showing a margin of only 1 point, some are showing 12 points in Remain's favor.
So most of -- but the bookmakers who --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: They're betting on a Remain, it sounds like.
CONYU (PH): Well, they were substantially not so long ago. But there's narrowed down. The odds have come down.
But my feeling is the Scottish referendum, the people will actually swing to towards safety. That old English saying, in fact, cling to Nurse for
fear of something worse.
I think at the end of the day that will probably swing it but I would not say that -- I wouldn't put my shirt on it.
GORANI: Hey, we've been surprised many times with this -- surprised by the general election. We've been surprised with the U.S. by Donald Trump and
we'll how see how this turns.
CONYU (PH): (INAUDIBLE) in time.
GORANI: All right, Paul Conyu (ph), thanks very much for joining us.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next on CNN.
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