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U.S. Troops in Iraq Strike at Terrorists Who Have Now Murdered Another Hostage; Clinton's Testy Response to Repeated Line of Questions From BBC Reporter
Aired June 23, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. troops in Iraq strike at terrorists who have now murdered another hostage. Even as a man, possibly Abu Zarqawi, delivers specific threats against the leader of Iraq's new government.
The interview everyone's talking about: former president Clinton's testy response to a repeated line of questions from a BBC reporter.
And Senator John Kerry calls a confidential meeting with one of his colleagues, causing veep watchers to take notice on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome everybody. Seven o'clock here in New York. Good morning; good to have you along with us today.
Copies of President Clinton's autobiography now being snapped up at bookstores on pace to set a record for initial sales of a nonfiction book.
We'll also play a little of that BBC interview that Soledad just mentioned and hear from Ron Brownstein talking about the implications for the election.
A lot to chew about on that topic again.
O'BRIEN: The former president kind of snitty in that interview with the BBC. We'll play a little bit more from that this morning.
Also, Senator John McCain will be joining us this morning.
We're going to take a look at the Iraq handover, a week away, and it comes at a time when so much remains unsettled in that country. We'll find out what the senator thinks are some of the greatest problems there.
HEMMER: Also this morning, a scandal brewing in the state of Illinois. Some salacious details coming out in divorce papers between Jack and Jeri Ryan.
He is a U.S. senate candidate; she's a popular TV actress. We'll get a report on that this morning as well. O'BRIEN: All right but, first, with just a week left before the handover, power in Iraq. New threats have been made against coalition troops, Iraqi security forces, and also the interim Iraqi government.
Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf live for us in the Iraqi capitol this morning. Jane, good morning.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Good morning, Soledad.
A very pointed threat against the interim prime minister according to the statement that's believed to be Zarqawi -- not absolutely authenticated yet by the CIA -- but believed to be his voice.
He is warning Iyad Allawi that there have been attempts against him. He's been lucky enough to escape, but he won't escape forever.
Now the Web site where the audio is on tells Allawi that he is the source of all infidels, a reference to Allawi -- an apparent reference to Allawi's close links with the CIA and his Baathist past before he turned against the Baath Party.
Allawi apparently, according to a spokesman, was read the statement and he said Zarqawi is not just the enemy of the Iyad Allawi, but the enemy of all Iraqis.
Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, of course, the wanted Jordanian national who is accused and has taken responsibility for some of the worst attacks in Iraq, including some of the beheadings of Western captives -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, Jane, then to what degree do administration officials and coalition officials in Iraq believe that Zarqawi is really responsible for a large percentage of the violence there?
ARRAF: Probably not a large percentage, Soledad, but certainly that small percentage at the top that are the deadliest and most spectacular of attacks.
And what we're talking about are the car bombings, the suicide bombings, that kill dozens of people.
What we're talking about is the kidnapping of Western captives and lately the South Korean and the beheadings of them, things that grab the headlines, things that make many Iraqis and a lot of Westerners here wonder what is going to happen to this country.
Now a lot of the violence is still thought to be insurgents, Iraqi insurgents, but perhaps the deadliest most effective part of that violence is according to Western and Iraqi officials laid at the doorstep of Zarqawi -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jane Arraf for us this morning out of Baghdad.
Jane, thanks. Bill. HEMMER: Meanwhile at the White House, the White House putting out a memo showing President Bush accepting the Justice Department's advice that the Geneva Conventions did not protect al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners, but it says the order that the Geneva rules be followed anyway.
More on this with Suzanne Malveaux from the Front Lawn this morning. Good morning there Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, the White House certainly went on the offensive yesterday. This after months of allegations that its approval of aggressive interrogation techniques led to the prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib facility in Iraq.
Well the White House yesterday releasing hundreds of pages of documents, but like most documents critics say it raises more questions than answers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: The Bush administration launched an extraordinary campaign to discredit claims that the White House condoned the torture of detainees.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not condone torture. I have never ordered torture. I will never order torture. The values of this country are such that torture is not a part of our soul and our being.
MALVEAUX: The White House released a two-inch stack of documents that show within the legal community there was vigorous debate over where the U.S. military could legally draw the line.
But White House counsel Alberto Gonzales said much of the discussion was merely exploring the legal landscape and never directly impacted the presidential policy or the instructions to the soldiers in the field.
In a presidential memo dated February 7, 2002, Mr. Bush accepted the Justice Department's recommendation that the Geneva Conventions protecting prisoners of war did not apply to the U.S. conflict with al Qaeda and the Taliban, but he stated, "our values as a Nation, values that we share with many nations in the world, call for us to treat detainees humanely, including those who are not legally entitled to such treatment."
Democrats immediately took to the Senate floor to complain. The White House has released only three of the 23 documents they had been asking for.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D) NEW YORK: Don't let anyone think that because it's a thick pile here that it really has the nub of the matter. It doesn't. (END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (on camera): And, Bill, much of the controversy and questions over an August 2002 Justice Department memo.
It states that the president, as Commander In Chief, has unlimited power to protect the U.S. from attack. It goes on to say that self-defense may justify interrogation methods that might violate U.S. and international law against torture.
Interestingly enough, the Justice Department repudiated that memo just yesterday -- Bill.
HEMMER: Suzanne Malveaux from the front lawn this morning. Thanks.
More throughout the morning on that story. In the meantime, though, Bill Clinton's book was supposed to be the headline for him this week, but it's an interview the former president did with the BBC that's getting a lot of attention today.
Here to talk about Clinton's interview and the BBC as well as the book, Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and political columnist as well for the "L.A. Times."
Ron, good morning to you.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Here is a short sample from the interview with the BBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the reasons he got away with it? Is because people like you only ask people like me the questions. You gave him a complete free ride.
Any abuse they want to do -- they indicted all these little people from Arkansas. What did you care about them? They're not famous; who cares if their lives are trampled; who cares if their children are humiliated?
Who cares if Starr sends FBI agents to their school and rips them out of their schools to humiliate them and try to force their parents to lie about me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Ron, the analysis on this interview says the president lost his cool. What happened here?
BROWNSTEIN: I think it's the world's worst kept secret, Bill. Bill Clinton does not like Ken Starr and he felt that he was the victim of an unfair prosecution. I mean, look, this has been going on really since the beginning. The specifics of the charge that the press did not cover the abuses -- what were perceived as the abuses of Ken Starr, I think, is overstated. There were a lot of questions raised during the period that we're talking about, about the way that Ken Starr was going about it.
There really was no leverage, though, from which public opinion could deter him. I mean, he had a pretty unimpeachable, as it were, position as a special prosecutor, but I think what you're really seeing here is the rawness of the emotion that the president still carries about this entire episode and in many ways that's what jumps off the pages in the book most dramatically as well.
HEMMER: That was the interview. In the book he writes and putting on the screen for our viewers to see, "His bias against me" -- meaning Ken Starr -- "was the very reason he was chosen and why he took the job. We now had a bizarre definition of an 'independent counsel.' He had to be independent of me, but it was fine to be closely tied to my political enemies and legal adversaries. The Starr appointment was unprecedented."
Is there much new, though, in this public debate?
BROWNSTEIN: Boy, this feels a little like, you know, rehashing the preconditions of the duel between Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton. I mean, it was a long time ago in many ways.
Look, I mean, the case Bill Clinton makes in the book is what was out in front of the camera as you suggest all the way through. The original special prosecutor on White Water, Robert Fisk, was dismissed by a federal judge with close ties to Jesse Helms after a lunch with the senator from North Carolina, the Republican senator that John Edwards defeated in 1998 later on, and obviously, the administration felt all the way through that Ken Starr had conflicts of interest, worked with the tobacco companies, worked with opponents -- supporters of school vouchers.
A program that President Clinton opposed -- his ties to the Paula Jones lawsuit. I mean, this is really rehashing old ground. What's interesting is the fervor and the intensity of the emotion, but I haven't read every page yet, but so far there really isn't a lot that hasn't been trod over in books by Jeffrey Toobin and Sidney Blumenthal and many others on both sides of it.
HEMMER: There is a suggestion now that this timeline with the tryst with Monica Lewinsky has changed, suggesting that he may have lied during the grand jury testimony.
What's happening here about the timeline moving actually to 1995 as opposed to before when the president said that relationship started later than that?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, well, I haven't -- I confess I've not read all the details of that portion of the book yet, but I think that, you know, by the end of the presidency it was pretty clear that despite his technical attempts to do so, Bill Clinton had clearly -- to stay within the law -- he had clearly mislead the grand jury.
I think most Americans feel that by the end of his presidency that was pretty much the consensus. I'm not sure this changes that.
The basic dichotomy of the public assessment on Clinton, even in a poll released last night remains -- ABC/"Washington Post" -- half the country said they had a favorable view of him as a person, split 50/50, three-fifths on the other hand say they viewed him positively for his job performance and really the question for him on this book tour is -- and indeed his whole reemergence what is going to be the focus.
Is it going to be the personal failings or is it going to be the areas where he can point to policy successes?
HEMMER: And as you mentioned, it seems like so yesterday Monica Lewinsky and Ken Starr. Many people wondering today about what they were doing in the White House at the time with Osama bin Laden and terrorism. Perhaps more tomorrow night live here on CNN.
Ron, thanks for that. Ron Brownstein in L.A.
Bill Clinton's first live prime time interview on his book later on CNN. Thursday night with Larry King, 9:00 Eastern, six on the West Coast. Also, some phone calls will be taken during that program -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Coming up on 11 minutes past the hour, and it's time to get a look at some of the other news today with Daryn Kagan.
Hey Daryn, good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. We're going to begin with word this morning that eight members of the British military being held in Iran have now been freed.
Iran's foreign ministry saying that it has released the British detainees. That is according to the Associated Press. The servicemen were detained Monday after their boat apparently entered Iranian waters illegally.
The U.S. says it has a proposal to make as many -- to make talks get underway in Beijing over North Korea's nuclear program.
American envoy James Kelly says the U.S. is prepared for serious discussion. In addition to the U.S., teams from both Koreas are joining delegates from China, Russia, and Japan.
The focus of the four-day meeting reaching an agreement on freezing North Korea's nuclear program.
In California, the first detective who was called to Scott Peterson's home is back on the stand today in the double murder trial.
Yesterday, the detective told jurors that Peterson appeared, quote, calm, cool, and relaxed the day he reported his wife Laci was missing. The jury also watched a videotaped interview during which Peterson told police that he and his wife had a problem-free marriage.
Defense attorneys criticized police saying they focused too soon on Peterson and missed other leads.
To Colorado: another round of closed-door arguments have wrapped up in the Kobe Bryant case. There is no agreement though on whether his accuser's sexual history will be allowed into trial as evidence. During the two-day hearing, they agreed that they would be ready to go to trial at the end of August, but the judge says a date will likely not be set until the end of this month.
And Yankees pitcher Jose Contreras is spending his first morning together with his family here in the U.S.
They were reunited in Miami yesterday after being apart for nearly two years. Contreras' wife and two daughters were among the group of Cubans who left the Communist island on Sunday night.
He said, Soledad, he's looking forward to showing his family all the sights in New York City. Yankee Stadium, of course and the Empire State Building.
O'BRIEN: Yes, a little freedom will be a nice thing for them, too. All right, Daryn, thanks a lot.
Well, guess what? Toure is in for Jack Cafferty this morning. Jack is on vacation -- not talking about it at all yesterday. Nice to have you -- good morning.
TOURE, "ROLLING STONE": The Man tried to stop me but I'm back by popular demand.
O'BRIEN: What are we talking about today?
TOURE: Well, the American Film Institute is listing their 100 Best Movie Songs of all time and, you know, movies can make the song -- a song can make the movie.
Number one: "Over the Rainbow," sung by Judy Garland in "The Wizard of Oz." Falling asleep already.
Number two: "As Time Goes By," from "Casablanca." "Mrs. Robinson" by Simon & Garfunkel from "The Graduate" is number six.
"Staying Alive" by the Bee Gees -- I remember dancing to that when I was little. "Saturday Night Fever."
Number 93: "Lose Yourself" by Eminem from "Eight Mile." They play that at my yoga class; everybody goes nuts, it's so great.
So our "Question of the Day" is what's the best song from a movie, ever? Now of course the correct answer is the theme from "Shaft," but...
O'BRIEN: I was going to say that. TOURE: Well, and, you got it right. We're going to try to play that. But, you know, we'll -- all answers right and wrong -- we'll read -- so e-mail us at cnn.com -- am@cnn.com.
O'BRIEN: Jack tried saying that (ph) to me once.
TOURE: He did?
O'BRIEN: He did.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: Wow, that's amazing.
HEMMER: Ever see Toure and Jack in the same room at the same time before?
O'BRIEN: I've never seen them in the same outfit.
(LAUGHTER)
HEMMER: Nice shirt by the way.
TOURE: Thanks, bro.
HEMMER: Good to see you, Toure.
O'BRIEN: Thanks Toure, good question.
TOURE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: We'll see what people say. Still to come this morning, John McCain went from being mentioned as Senator John Kerry's running mate to campaigning for the president.
We're going to talk to the Arizona senator, get his take on the veep stakes and much more just ahead.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, sportscaster Pat Summerall just two months ago got a lifesaving emergency liver transplant. He'll tell us how his life has changed in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Plus, four years ago a millionaire politician splits up with his TV star wife. Well, now, sex club allegations in the divorce could derail his campaign. We'll explain just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: There is just one week now until the handover of power in Iraq. Senator John McCain has been there and he joins us this morning from Washington.
Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Thank you, Soledad. O'BRIEN: With the recent spate of violence, including two U.S. soldiers who were killed yesterday in an ambush, three Iraqis as you well know also killed, the beheading that we've been talking about in Iraq as well, do you think the violence there is getting worse?
MCCAIN: I think it's probably going to escalate between now and the 30th and perhaps for a period afterwards. The terrorists know that this is a very critical time.
If they can prevent a handover of the government from the United States military to this Iraqi government they will have achieved great success and there's a lot at stake here in the next few weeks.
O'BRIEN: Then there is this audiotape that many people say is the voice of Al Zarqawi. He threatens coalition troops; he threatens Iraqi security forces as well. He's even threatening the interim prime minister in Iraq. How critical is it to get him?
MCCAIN: I think it's very important that we get him, but we have seen a sort of a dispersion of this al Qaeda network. I'm sorry to tell you if we get him there's going to be somebody else that's going to take his place.
We're in a very tough struggle here in Iraq and we're going to be there for a long time but I think it's vital that we succeed.
O'BRIEN: Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz has said that the troops could be in Iraq for years to come. Representative Skelton also says that we may be heading into a security quagmire. How long do you think, in fact, U.S. troops will be in Iraq?
MCCAIN: I think U.S. troops will be there for many years. We've been in South Korea for many years; we've been in Bosnia; we've been in Kosovo. The key to it is to reduce the causalities.
So that these young Americans can serve and provide security and at the same time we don't take the kind of casualties that we've been seeing -- that's the key to it.
O'BRIEN: Do you think security quagmire is the right words to use there?
MCCAIN: No, not at all. I believe we must and will make progress. I think it's going to be slow; I think it's going to be tough.
We're paying a heavy price for some of the mistakes that the Pentagon made in the post-combat phase by not having enough troops over there, but hopefully we are adjusting.
I believe that the Iraqi people will feel better when they have a government of their own and the next big step of course will be elections and those have to have some kind of security environment in order to take place successfully.
O'BRIEN: Saddam Hussein's lawyer says that his client, Saddam Hussein, was abused like the prisoners at Abu Ghraib. What do you make of that?
MCCAIN: I doubt it, given the high visibility that he has. But, I believe that he will get the reward that he deserves for his brutal torture and mistreatment of the Iraqi people and I think a public trial would be good for American and world opinion to be again reminded of the brutality of his regime.
O'BRIEN: You've been campaigning for President Bush; we've seen you doing that. It kind of puts a nail in the coffin of those who were ever hopeful that in fact you would turn up as a vice presidential candidate for Senator John Kerry, doesn't it?
MCCAIN: Yes, I hope so, Soledad. I hope so.
O'BRIEN: You're kind of sick of talking about it, then, I guess.
MCCAIN: Yes, I am.
O'BRIEN: Final question for you this morning. President Clinton has got a new book out. Going to go out and buy it? It's kind of heavy; it's kind of expensive, too.
MCCAIN: I think I'll read the excerpts. Maybe the Cliff Notes.
O'BRIEN: There's nothing you want to know from that book?
MCCAIN: Oh, no. I think most of it is obviously been examined and reviewed. I'll be glad to read parts of it and there's some very interesting parts of his presidency. A lot of things happened while he was president and I'll be glad to have a look at it.
O'BRIEN: Senator John McCain joining us this morning. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks, as always.
MCCAIN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: More perspective now on Iraq. Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware just back from Iraq. He's our guest now in Wilmington, Delaware.
Senator, welcome back here.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D) DELAWARE: Thanks.
HEMMER: You came back more optimistic than before. Why?
BIDEN: Because I think the Iraqi people are prepared to cooperate with us more, the new leadership -- this fellow, Prime Minister Allawi is a serious guy. I don't want to exaggerate it but he's a little bit like Karzai in Afghanistan.
He has a realistic view of what his problems are. But this turning over of sovereignty does not mean we've turned over capacity. And the key to get out of this, quote, security quagmire as one of our colleagues said is to equip the Iraqis but get real about it.
Not train their cops for eight weeks, not think you're going to have a 30,000-man army in six months but over the next year with a significant investment of training and equipment we ought to be able to put ourselves in a position for what is ultimately an exit strategy.
Free elections in December of 2000 and a draw down of American forces based upon the Iraqis being able to take care of their own security.
HEMMER: You're in this school of thought that says more international help is needed, especially from NATO, which will get a lot of attention come the first of July when the NATO leaders get together.
What's the incentive for these countries to not participate in Iraq?
BIDEN: Chaos on their doorstep. It's really quite simple. France and Germany have as much or more to lose on a failure in Iraq than we do.
The French have ten percent of their population that's Arab. The radicalization of the Arab world will occur in -- if Iraq becomes Lebanon is awesome and the Germans are always xenophobic; they're worried about population flows.
They're already apoplectic about the number of Turks that are moving into their country, etc. So there's a lot at stake for them. They know it. And its time for the president to lead and I believe if he does, that we in fact can get their support.
And let me be specific. With Mr. Allawi I spent an hour with him and I literally asked him, suggested to him he should literally go to Istanbul, which is where we're going to have this NATO summit and he should ask Allawi, in the name of the Iraqi people for help from the French and the Germans.
They bled for 10 years about the poor Iraqi people. Now the poor Iraqi people are in trouble. It's time for them to get over Bush's mistakes; it's time for them to stand up and help.
HEMMER: Back to the issue of your trip and the issue of Zarqawi. Did the Iraqis tell you that they believe he is important to get to capture or kill, as the Americans believe?
BIDEN: Well, we didn't -- they believe that it is important but they believe, they think that if in fact you actually get a government up and running and get some security on the street, meaning that you can send your daughter down to the corner store to get milk for breakfast, that you can go to the mosque without being -- for fear of being blown up.
That that's the way to do it. And the way to do that is you have to get intelligence. Intelligence just like cops on the street here in America. You got to get people speaking the language, having the capacity, having the weapons that can protect the people in the neighborhood and then people will then begin to speak to them.
They will then let them know who is hiding in the back yard, who the guy they saw running down the street, etc.
And that's the key, but that's going to take some time, but we should be serious about it and I believe it is doable. But the president hasn't seemed -- well, let me be more -- more diplomatic.
The administration doesn't seem to have learned its lesson yet. Unless we give the Iraqis the capacity to provide their security over -- gradually over the next year, we are in a quagmire. There's a way out, give them the capacity, get real and level with the American people.
That this turnover is a starting point, not a turning point.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. Joe Biden from Wilmington, Delaware this morning.
BIDEN: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come, and on a much lighter note, a dose of pure pop pleasure. It's "90-Second Pop."
Her love just might cost a thing. A gambling Web site puts a price on how long J-Lo's latest marriage will last. Now the newlyweds have to take the bet.
And it seems the rumors are true for one of the Olsen Twins. Mary Kate gets treatment for an eating disorder. "90-Second Pop" is coming up. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everyone. Seven-thirty here in New York. Welcome back to another edition of AMERICAN MORNING.
Thinks those folks are still standing in line for Bill Clinton's book?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: You think?
O'BRIEN: Probably.
HEMMER: I don't -- it's on sale today. You can get it tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: Go to amazon.com.
HEMMER: You can get it next week if you like.
O'BRIEN: You can point and click and have it send it to your house. But that's me.
HEMMER: That's right. Also today, some Republican leaders accusing Illinois senate candidate Jack Ryan of not coming clean. Some embarrassing details becoming public in his divorce. Accusations from his wife, actress Jeri Ryan about sex clubs and whether or not this could derail his campaign starting to heat up in the state of Illinois. We'll get to it.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning we're joined by a legend in football and in broadcasting as well. Pat Summerall; he's traveled a very rough road in the last few years. He's now recovering from a liver transplant. We're going to hear his story in his first live interview since that surgery.
HEMMER: And he has a story to tell, too.
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Aired June 23, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. troops in Iraq strike at terrorists who have now murdered another hostage. Even as a man, possibly Abu Zarqawi, delivers specific threats against the leader of Iraq's new government.
The interview everyone's talking about: former president Clinton's testy response to a repeated line of questions from a BBC reporter.
And Senator John Kerry calls a confidential meeting with one of his colleagues, causing veep watchers to take notice on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome everybody. Seven o'clock here in New York. Good morning; good to have you along with us today.
Copies of President Clinton's autobiography now being snapped up at bookstores on pace to set a record for initial sales of a nonfiction book.
We'll also play a little of that BBC interview that Soledad just mentioned and hear from Ron Brownstein talking about the implications for the election.
A lot to chew about on that topic again.
O'BRIEN: The former president kind of snitty in that interview with the BBC. We'll play a little bit more from that this morning.
Also, Senator John McCain will be joining us this morning.
We're going to take a look at the Iraq handover, a week away, and it comes at a time when so much remains unsettled in that country. We'll find out what the senator thinks are some of the greatest problems there.
HEMMER: Also this morning, a scandal brewing in the state of Illinois. Some salacious details coming out in divorce papers between Jack and Jeri Ryan.
He is a U.S. senate candidate; she's a popular TV actress. We'll get a report on that this morning as well. O'BRIEN: All right but, first, with just a week left before the handover, power in Iraq. New threats have been made against coalition troops, Iraqi security forces, and also the interim Iraqi government.
Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf live for us in the Iraqi capitol this morning. Jane, good morning.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Good morning, Soledad.
A very pointed threat against the interim prime minister according to the statement that's believed to be Zarqawi -- not absolutely authenticated yet by the CIA -- but believed to be his voice.
He is warning Iyad Allawi that there have been attempts against him. He's been lucky enough to escape, but he won't escape forever.
Now the Web site where the audio is on tells Allawi that he is the source of all infidels, a reference to Allawi -- an apparent reference to Allawi's close links with the CIA and his Baathist past before he turned against the Baath Party.
Allawi apparently, according to a spokesman, was read the statement and he said Zarqawi is not just the enemy of the Iyad Allawi, but the enemy of all Iraqis.
Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, of course, the wanted Jordanian national who is accused and has taken responsibility for some of the worst attacks in Iraq, including some of the beheadings of Western captives -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, Jane, then to what degree do administration officials and coalition officials in Iraq believe that Zarqawi is really responsible for a large percentage of the violence there?
ARRAF: Probably not a large percentage, Soledad, but certainly that small percentage at the top that are the deadliest and most spectacular of attacks.
And what we're talking about are the car bombings, the suicide bombings, that kill dozens of people.
What we're talking about is the kidnapping of Western captives and lately the South Korean and the beheadings of them, things that grab the headlines, things that make many Iraqis and a lot of Westerners here wonder what is going to happen to this country.
Now a lot of the violence is still thought to be insurgents, Iraqi insurgents, but perhaps the deadliest most effective part of that violence is according to Western and Iraqi officials laid at the doorstep of Zarqawi -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jane Arraf for us this morning out of Baghdad.
Jane, thanks. Bill. HEMMER: Meanwhile at the White House, the White House putting out a memo showing President Bush accepting the Justice Department's advice that the Geneva Conventions did not protect al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners, but it says the order that the Geneva rules be followed anyway.
More on this with Suzanne Malveaux from the Front Lawn this morning. Good morning there Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, the White House certainly went on the offensive yesterday. This after months of allegations that its approval of aggressive interrogation techniques led to the prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib facility in Iraq.
Well the White House yesterday releasing hundreds of pages of documents, but like most documents critics say it raises more questions than answers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: The Bush administration launched an extraordinary campaign to discredit claims that the White House condoned the torture of detainees.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not condone torture. I have never ordered torture. I will never order torture. The values of this country are such that torture is not a part of our soul and our being.
MALVEAUX: The White House released a two-inch stack of documents that show within the legal community there was vigorous debate over where the U.S. military could legally draw the line.
But White House counsel Alberto Gonzales said much of the discussion was merely exploring the legal landscape and never directly impacted the presidential policy or the instructions to the soldiers in the field.
In a presidential memo dated February 7, 2002, Mr. Bush accepted the Justice Department's recommendation that the Geneva Conventions protecting prisoners of war did not apply to the U.S. conflict with al Qaeda and the Taliban, but he stated, "our values as a Nation, values that we share with many nations in the world, call for us to treat detainees humanely, including those who are not legally entitled to such treatment."
Democrats immediately took to the Senate floor to complain. The White House has released only three of the 23 documents they had been asking for.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D) NEW YORK: Don't let anyone think that because it's a thick pile here that it really has the nub of the matter. It doesn't. (END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (on camera): And, Bill, much of the controversy and questions over an August 2002 Justice Department memo.
It states that the president, as Commander In Chief, has unlimited power to protect the U.S. from attack. It goes on to say that self-defense may justify interrogation methods that might violate U.S. and international law against torture.
Interestingly enough, the Justice Department repudiated that memo just yesterday -- Bill.
HEMMER: Suzanne Malveaux from the front lawn this morning. Thanks.
More throughout the morning on that story. In the meantime, though, Bill Clinton's book was supposed to be the headline for him this week, but it's an interview the former president did with the BBC that's getting a lot of attention today.
Here to talk about Clinton's interview and the BBC as well as the book, Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and political columnist as well for the "L.A. Times."
Ron, good morning to you.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Here is a short sample from the interview with the BBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the reasons he got away with it? Is because people like you only ask people like me the questions. You gave him a complete free ride.
Any abuse they want to do -- they indicted all these little people from Arkansas. What did you care about them? They're not famous; who cares if their lives are trampled; who cares if their children are humiliated?
Who cares if Starr sends FBI agents to their school and rips them out of their schools to humiliate them and try to force their parents to lie about me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Ron, the analysis on this interview says the president lost his cool. What happened here?
BROWNSTEIN: I think it's the world's worst kept secret, Bill. Bill Clinton does not like Ken Starr and he felt that he was the victim of an unfair prosecution. I mean, look, this has been going on really since the beginning. The specifics of the charge that the press did not cover the abuses -- what were perceived as the abuses of Ken Starr, I think, is overstated. There were a lot of questions raised during the period that we're talking about, about the way that Ken Starr was going about it.
There really was no leverage, though, from which public opinion could deter him. I mean, he had a pretty unimpeachable, as it were, position as a special prosecutor, but I think what you're really seeing here is the rawness of the emotion that the president still carries about this entire episode and in many ways that's what jumps off the pages in the book most dramatically as well.
HEMMER: That was the interview. In the book he writes and putting on the screen for our viewers to see, "His bias against me" -- meaning Ken Starr -- "was the very reason he was chosen and why he took the job. We now had a bizarre definition of an 'independent counsel.' He had to be independent of me, but it was fine to be closely tied to my political enemies and legal adversaries. The Starr appointment was unprecedented."
Is there much new, though, in this public debate?
BROWNSTEIN: Boy, this feels a little like, you know, rehashing the preconditions of the duel between Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton. I mean, it was a long time ago in many ways.
Look, I mean, the case Bill Clinton makes in the book is what was out in front of the camera as you suggest all the way through. The original special prosecutor on White Water, Robert Fisk, was dismissed by a federal judge with close ties to Jesse Helms after a lunch with the senator from North Carolina, the Republican senator that John Edwards defeated in 1998 later on, and obviously, the administration felt all the way through that Ken Starr had conflicts of interest, worked with the tobacco companies, worked with opponents -- supporters of school vouchers.
A program that President Clinton opposed -- his ties to the Paula Jones lawsuit. I mean, this is really rehashing old ground. What's interesting is the fervor and the intensity of the emotion, but I haven't read every page yet, but so far there really isn't a lot that hasn't been trod over in books by Jeffrey Toobin and Sidney Blumenthal and many others on both sides of it.
HEMMER: There is a suggestion now that this timeline with the tryst with Monica Lewinsky has changed, suggesting that he may have lied during the grand jury testimony.
What's happening here about the timeline moving actually to 1995 as opposed to before when the president said that relationship started later than that?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, well, I haven't -- I confess I've not read all the details of that portion of the book yet, but I think that, you know, by the end of the presidency it was pretty clear that despite his technical attempts to do so, Bill Clinton had clearly -- to stay within the law -- he had clearly mislead the grand jury.
I think most Americans feel that by the end of his presidency that was pretty much the consensus. I'm not sure this changes that.
The basic dichotomy of the public assessment on Clinton, even in a poll released last night remains -- ABC/"Washington Post" -- half the country said they had a favorable view of him as a person, split 50/50, three-fifths on the other hand say they viewed him positively for his job performance and really the question for him on this book tour is -- and indeed his whole reemergence what is going to be the focus.
Is it going to be the personal failings or is it going to be the areas where he can point to policy successes?
HEMMER: And as you mentioned, it seems like so yesterday Monica Lewinsky and Ken Starr. Many people wondering today about what they were doing in the White House at the time with Osama bin Laden and terrorism. Perhaps more tomorrow night live here on CNN.
Ron, thanks for that. Ron Brownstein in L.A.
Bill Clinton's first live prime time interview on his book later on CNN. Thursday night with Larry King, 9:00 Eastern, six on the West Coast. Also, some phone calls will be taken during that program -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Coming up on 11 minutes past the hour, and it's time to get a look at some of the other news today with Daryn Kagan.
Hey Daryn, good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. We're going to begin with word this morning that eight members of the British military being held in Iran have now been freed.
Iran's foreign ministry saying that it has released the British detainees. That is according to the Associated Press. The servicemen were detained Monday after their boat apparently entered Iranian waters illegally.
The U.S. says it has a proposal to make as many -- to make talks get underway in Beijing over North Korea's nuclear program.
American envoy James Kelly says the U.S. is prepared for serious discussion. In addition to the U.S., teams from both Koreas are joining delegates from China, Russia, and Japan.
The focus of the four-day meeting reaching an agreement on freezing North Korea's nuclear program.
In California, the first detective who was called to Scott Peterson's home is back on the stand today in the double murder trial.
Yesterday, the detective told jurors that Peterson appeared, quote, calm, cool, and relaxed the day he reported his wife Laci was missing. The jury also watched a videotaped interview during which Peterson told police that he and his wife had a problem-free marriage.
Defense attorneys criticized police saying they focused too soon on Peterson and missed other leads.
To Colorado: another round of closed-door arguments have wrapped up in the Kobe Bryant case. There is no agreement though on whether his accuser's sexual history will be allowed into trial as evidence. During the two-day hearing, they agreed that they would be ready to go to trial at the end of August, but the judge says a date will likely not be set until the end of this month.
And Yankees pitcher Jose Contreras is spending his first morning together with his family here in the U.S.
They were reunited in Miami yesterday after being apart for nearly two years. Contreras' wife and two daughters were among the group of Cubans who left the Communist island on Sunday night.
He said, Soledad, he's looking forward to showing his family all the sights in New York City. Yankee Stadium, of course and the Empire State Building.
O'BRIEN: Yes, a little freedom will be a nice thing for them, too. All right, Daryn, thanks a lot.
Well, guess what? Toure is in for Jack Cafferty this morning. Jack is on vacation -- not talking about it at all yesterday. Nice to have you -- good morning.
TOURE, "ROLLING STONE": The Man tried to stop me but I'm back by popular demand.
O'BRIEN: What are we talking about today?
TOURE: Well, the American Film Institute is listing their 100 Best Movie Songs of all time and, you know, movies can make the song -- a song can make the movie.
Number one: "Over the Rainbow," sung by Judy Garland in "The Wizard of Oz." Falling asleep already.
Number two: "As Time Goes By," from "Casablanca." "Mrs. Robinson" by Simon & Garfunkel from "The Graduate" is number six.
"Staying Alive" by the Bee Gees -- I remember dancing to that when I was little. "Saturday Night Fever."
Number 93: "Lose Yourself" by Eminem from "Eight Mile." They play that at my yoga class; everybody goes nuts, it's so great.
So our "Question of the Day" is what's the best song from a movie, ever? Now of course the correct answer is the theme from "Shaft," but...
O'BRIEN: I was going to say that. TOURE: Well, and, you got it right. We're going to try to play that. But, you know, we'll -- all answers right and wrong -- we'll read -- so e-mail us at cnn.com -- am@cnn.com.
O'BRIEN: Jack tried saying that (ph) to me once.
TOURE: He did?
O'BRIEN: He did.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: Wow, that's amazing.
HEMMER: Ever see Toure and Jack in the same room at the same time before?
O'BRIEN: I've never seen them in the same outfit.
(LAUGHTER)
HEMMER: Nice shirt by the way.
TOURE: Thanks, bro.
HEMMER: Good to see you, Toure.
O'BRIEN: Thanks Toure, good question.
TOURE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: We'll see what people say. Still to come this morning, John McCain went from being mentioned as Senator John Kerry's running mate to campaigning for the president.
We're going to talk to the Arizona senator, get his take on the veep stakes and much more just ahead.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, sportscaster Pat Summerall just two months ago got a lifesaving emergency liver transplant. He'll tell us how his life has changed in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Plus, four years ago a millionaire politician splits up with his TV star wife. Well, now, sex club allegations in the divorce could derail his campaign. We'll explain just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: There is just one week now until the handover of power in Iraq. Senator John McCain has been there and he joins us this morning from Washington.
Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Thank you, Soledad. O'BRIEN: With the recent spate of violence, including two U.S. soldiers who were killed yesterday in an ambush, three Iraqis as you well know also killed, the beheading that we've been talking about in Iraq as well, do you think the violence there is getting worse?
MCCAIN: I think it's probably going to escalate between now and the 30th and perhaps for a period afterwards. The terrorists know that this is a very critical time.
If they can prevent a handover of the government from the United States military to this Iraqi government they will have achieved great success and there's a lot at stake here in the next few weeks.
O'BRIEN: Then there is this audiotape that many people say is the voice of Al Zarqawi. He threatens coalition troops; he threatens Iraqi security forces as well. He's even threatening the interim prime minister in Iraq. How critical is it to get him?
MCCAIN: I think it's very important that we get him, but we have seen a sort of a dispersion of this al Qaeda network. I'm sorry to tell you if we get him there's going to be somebody else that's going to take his place.
We're in a very tough struggle here in Iraq and we're going to be there for a long time but I think it's vital that we succeed.
O'BRIEN: Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz has said that the troops could be in Iraq for years to come. Representative Skelton also says that we may be heading into a security quagmire. How long do you think, in fact, U.S. troops will be in Iraq?
MCCAIN: I think U.S. troops will be there for many years. We've been in South Korea for many years; we've been in Bosnia; we've been in Kosovo. The key to it is to reduce the causalities.
So that these young Americans can serve and provide security and at the same time we don't take the kind of casualties that we've been seeing -- that's the key to it.
O'BRIEN: Do you think security quagmire is the right words to use there?
MCCAIN: No, not at all. I believe we must and will make progress. I think it's going to be slow; I think it's going to be tough.
We're paying a heavy price for some of the mistakes that the Pentagon made in the post-combat phase by not having enough troops over there, but hopefully we are adjusting.
I believe that the Iraqi people will feel better when they have a government of their own and the next big step of course will be elections and those have to have some kind of security environment in order to take place successfully.
O'BRIEN: Saddam Hussein's lawyer says that his client, Saddam Hussein, was abused like the prisoners at Abu Ghraib. What do you make of that?
MCCAIN: I doubt it, given the high visibility that he has. But, I believe that he will get the reward that he deserves for his brutal torture and mistreatment of the Iraqi people and I think a public trial would be good for American and world opinion to be again reminded of the brutality of his regime.
O'BRIEN: You've been campaigning for President Bush; we've seen you doing that. It kind of puts a nail in the coffin of those who were ever hopeful that in fact you would turn up as a vice presidential candidate for Senator John Kerry, doesn't it?
MCCAIN: Yes, I hope so, Soledad. I hope so.
O'BRIEN: You're kind of sick of talking about it, then, I guess.
MCCAIN: Yes, I am.
O'BRIEN: Final question for you this morning. President Clinton has got a new book out. Going to go out and buy it? It's kind of heavy; it's kind of expensive, too.
MCCAIN: I think I'll read the excerpts. Maybe the Cliff Notes.
O'BRIEN: There's nothing you want to know from that book?
MCCAIN: Oh, no. I think most of it is obviously been examined and reviewed. I'll be glad to read parts of it and there's some very interesting parts of his presidency. A lot of things happened while he was president and I'll be glad to have a look at it.
O'BRIEN: Senator John McCain joining us this morning. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks, as always.
MCCAIN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: More perspective now on Iraq. Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware just back from Iraq. He's our guest now in Wilmington, Delaware.
Senator, welcome back here.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D) DELAWARE: Thanks.
HEMMER: You came back more optimistic than before. Why?
BIDEN: Because I think the Iraqi people are prepared to cooperate with us more, the new leadership -- this fellow, Prime Minister Allawi is a serious guy. I don't want to exaggerate it but he's a little bit like Karzai in Afghanistan.
He has a realistic view of what his problems are. But this turning over of sovereignty does not mean we've turned over capacity. And the key to get out of this, quote, security quagmire as one of our colleagues said is to equip the Iraqis but get real about it.
Not train their cops for eight weeks, not think you're going to have a 30,000-man army in six months but over the next year with a significant investment of training and equipment we ought to be able to put ourselves in a position for what is ultimately an exit strategy.
Free elections in December of 2000 and a draw down of American forces based upon the Iraqis being able to take care of their own security.
HEMMER: You're in this school of thought that says more international help is needed, especially from NATO, which will get a lot of attention come the first of July when the NATO leaders get together.
What's the incentive for these countries to not participate in Iraq?
BIDEN: Chaos on their doorstep. It's really quite simple. France and Germany have as much or more to lose on a failure in Iraq than we do.
The French have ten percent of their population that's Arab. The radicalization of the Arab world will occur in -- if Iraq becomes Lebanon is awesome and the Germans are always xenophobic; they're worried about population flows.
They're already apoplectic about the number of Turks that are moving into their country, etc. So there's a lot at stake for them. They know it. And its time for the president to lead and I believe if he does, that we in fact can get their support.
And let me be specific. With Mr. Allawi I spent an hour with him and I literally asked him, suggested to him he should literally go to Istanbul, which is where we're going to have this NATO summit and he should ask Allawi, in the name of the Iraqi people for help from the French and the Germans.
They bled for 10 years about the poor Iraqi people. Now the poor Iraqi people are in trouble. It's time for them to get over Bush's mistakes; it's time for them to stand up and help.
HEMMER: Back to the issue of your trip and the issue of Zarqawi. Did the Iraqis tell you that they believe he is important to get to capture or kill, as the Americans believe?
BIDEN: Well, we didn't -- they believe that it is important but they believe, they think that if in fact you actually get a government up and running and get some security on the street, meaning that you can send your daughter down to the corner store to get milk for breakfast, that you can go to the mosque without being -- for fear of being blown up.
That that's the way to do it. And the way to do that is you have to get intelligence. Intelligence just like cops on the street here in America. You got to get people speaking the language, having the capacity, having the weapons that can protect the people in the neighborhood and then people will then begin to speak to them.
They will then let them know who is hiding in the back yard, who the guy they saw running down the street, etc.
And that's the key, but that's going to take some time, but we should be serious about it and I believe it is doable. But the president hasn't seemed -- well, let me be more -- more diplomatic.
The administration doesn't seem to have learned its lesson yet. Unless we give the Iraqis the capacity to provide their security over -- gradually over the next year, we are in a quagmire. There's a way out, give them the capacity, get real and level with the American people.
That this turnover is a starting point, not a turning point.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. Joe Biden from Wilmington, Delaware this morning.
BIDEN: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come, and on a much lighter note, a dose of pure pop pleasure. It's "90-Second Pop."
Her love just might cost a thing. A gambling Web site puts a price on how long J-Lo's latest marriage will last. Now the newlyweds have to take the bet.
And it seems the rumors are true for one of the Olsen Twins. Mary Kate gets treatment for an eating disorder. "90-Second Pop" is coming up. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everyone. Seven-thirty here in New York. Welcome back to another edition of AMERICAN MORNING.
Thinks those folks are still standing in line for Bill Clinton's book?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: You think?
O'BRIEN: Probably.
HEMMER: I don't -- it's on sale today. You can get it tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: Go to amazon.com.
HEMMER: You can get it next week if you like.
O'BRIEN: You can point and click and have it send it to your house. But that's me.
HEMMER: That's right. Also today, some Republican leaders accusing Illinois senate candidate Jack Ryan of not coming clean. Some embarrassing details becoming public in his divorce. Accusations from his wife, actress Jeri Ryan about sex clubs and whether or not this could derail his campaign starting to heat up in the state of Illinois. We'll get to it.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning we're joined by a legend in football and in broadcasting as well. Pat Summerall; he's traveled a very rough road in the last few years. He's now recovering from a liver transplant. We're going to hear his story in his first live interview since that surgery.
HEMMER: And he has a story to tell, too.
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