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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) Shifting Gears To Target Trump; 2020 Race Spotlights How Media Covers Female Candidates; Trump Faces Multiple Escalating Foreign Policy Issues; Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA), Presidential Candidate, Interviewed about National Security; Former Obama State Dept. Spokesperson Joins Moulton Campaign; Seth Moulton Focuses On National Security In Pres. Bid; Congressman Seth Moulton On His Presidential Run; White House & Congress Spar Over Subpoenas; Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) Is Interviewed About The Current Situation Of The U.S. Being in Constitutional Crisis; Singh Is First Non-White Person To Lead Major Party In Canada; Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos Unveils Plan To Send People To The Moon. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 11, 2019 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

S.E. CUPP, CNN UNFILTERED: Welcome to Unfiltered. Here's tonight's headline. Only 541 days to go with 77 weeks left until the 2020 election. Believe it or not, the democratic field is still expanding, not whittling down. Montana Governor Steve Bullock teased a 2020 presidential run today, promising he's the only democrat who can win the support of rural America, so 21 candidates may become 22.

And that's not just 22 candidates fighting for the same primary voters, it's 22 candidates fighting for the same media attention, 22 candidates fighting for the same top campaign personnel and 22 candidates fighting over the same donor dollars.

To have any chance of winning the nomination, democratic hopefuls were always going to have to distinguish themselves from the rest of the pack early and often. For frontrunners like Joe Biden and Senator Bernie Sanders, this was achieved through name recognition. For others like Senator Elizabeth Warren and Mayor Pete Buttigieg, the key to success has been staking out a unique political niche.

But for Senator Kamala Harris, standing out from the crowd has proven a bit more difficult. Despite a smooth rollout and promising start to her campaign in January, a heavily watched CNN Town Hall and impressive opening day fundraising numbers, the latest CNN poll shows her running in sixth place, roughly the same middling position she's occupied since she announced her candidacy.

She said that's partly our fault that the media and pundits focus too much on this idea of electability. The conversation too often suggests certain voters will only vote for certain candidates, regardless of whether their ideas will lift up all our families.

Okay. The only problem is voters agree with us. In the latest Quinnipiac poll, only 2 percent say Harris can beat Trump. That's 2 percent of democratic voters. And when controlled for only women democratic voters and non-white democratic voters, the answer is the same, 2 percent.

You can say electability shouldn't matter but that's kind of the whole ball game. So what else could explain the lack of momentum in the Harris campaign? She's super engaging. By all accounts, she connects with people on the trail, she's got an impressive resume and a very compelling back story. In congressional hearing, she's made quick work of her opponents and it's almost too tempting to imagine her taking on Trump in a general election.

But she's been criticized for being too cautious, too vague, too wavering. She first seemed to want to occupy a more moderate lane but while taking some heat for her prosecutorial past wasn't long before she was extending olive branches to the progressive left, announcing her support for reparations, the Green New Deal and legalizing pot.

She's come a tick short of calling for ICE to be abolished, saying instead, we need to probably think about starting from scratch. At one point, she called for eliminating private insurance, but then her press secretary said, no, no, no, she is open to allowing people to keep their private health plans.

President Trump has expressed both admiration and disgust for her. Back in January, he called her the toughest candidate. More recently, he called her nasty. She'd been primarily sticking to ideas over the past few months but is resetting her campaign now with a new sharpened focus on Trump.

Here's the deal, a campaign reset isn't a great sign. In publishing, the kiss of death for any publication is the dreaded redesign. It's a last-ditch effort to save what probably can't be. It's the beginning of the end, a desperate plea to readers that says, we know you weren't reading us before but what if we make ourselves completely unrecognizable?

Well, likewise, in electoral politics, a reboot isn't usually a sign that you think things are working. It also looks kind of equivocating and unsure. Harris is a strong candidate with South Carolina and her home State of California early in the primaries, she should get some important Ws on the board, along with Bernie Sanders. She's making up nearly half of the primary candidates' social media footprint. She, Joe Biden, Sanders and Elizabeth Warren account for more than half the field's news media mentions. It's more than Pete Buttigieg and more than Beto O'Rourke. So she needs to zero in on a strong message that sets her apart and then just stay the course.

Okay. Let's hear from someone who may totally disagree with me. Joining me now is CNN political commentator, former Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum. So I'm sure you know her better than most do.

[18:05:02]

Tell me what sets Senator Harris apart from the field in a meaningful way? ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, first of all, good to be with you, S.E. I have to tell you, I think Senator Harris is probably one of the most talented politicians that we have out there on the democratic side. She's brilliant, she's smart, she is sharp, a candidate who I think really does have and possess all of the talents that are necessary, in my opinion, to not only make it out of the democratic primary but to position herself to take out Trump in 2020.

I get it that a lot of us have been consumed by this question of electability. But I got to tell you, Senator Harris can take it from me as can others who are down in the polls. There wasn't a single poll showing me winning the democratic primary in Florida's third largest state and all of America. And when I made it to the primary, I don't think there was a single public poll that showed me losing the race for governor and all of those things didn't play out quite the way they were expected.

And so I think you said in your opening, we're what, more than 500 or so days away from election? Can we give it time and give? Can we get these candidates on a debate stage, let them go at it around their vision for the country and then let the American people decide?

CUPP: All great points. I'll ask you again, what sets her apart though? I'm sure you'd say very nice things about a lot of the democratic candidates. You called her smart. I'm sure you'd say a lot of them are smart. What sets her apart? Because as you and I both know, that's really important, especially in a field of now maybe 22.

GILLUM: Yes. No, without a doubt. So, first of all, she brings an extremely accomplished record to the table. And I understand that anybody with a record, there are going to be two, three different takes on the implications of that record. But I think she has done a really strong job at least of defending where she has stood in the past. I think she is an extremely affable person. And really importantly in this democratic primary, she represents just typo graph-wise a very, very important constituency within the democratic primary, and that is black women. And as you've seen already in this race from some of the forums that have been held, black women do play in to be taken very seriously and have their votes taken very seriously in this primary process.

What I think is going to be necessary for all the candidates is not only are you going to have to show that you got to chops to fight Donald Trump, but that you also have the vision to move this country forward. I would become less obsessed with the idea of playing into the everyday headlines of what's in the news and really develop and deepen your strategy of how you're going to win this primary and stick to it. I tell you, that's what I did in my race, we figured out a way to win and then you stick to it. And I think if the Senator and, frankly, the other candidates that are competing do that, they'll be well served.

CUPP: There was a long piece in The Atlantic recently that asked whether Kamala Harris can beat Trump and also said, quote, no other matchup would be as riveting or as revealing as Harris versus Trump. And I tend to agree. Do you think that's been because, for example, she's been so good at handling folks like Bill Barr in hearings? Is that why the matchup would just be so good?

GILLUM: Well, I'll tell you, she would be no shrinking violet on a debate stage. She has shown that in Kavanaugh Hearings, she's shown that obviously, most recently, in the Barr hearing. I think you'll see that quite frankly demonstrated well on the debate stage that begins in earnest actually here in the State of Florida just next month.

People are going to get to see a side of Senator Harris that those of us in the political space have been observing for some time. But on the debate stage, it will be projected to a larger audience and she'll have a chance to introduce herself to people in a way they haven't seen her before. And I think that that is going to inure to her benefit for sure.

CUPP: Do you think she needs to take maybe some bolder positions? There was a lot of criticism in that Atlantic piece that she was tough to pin down, that she didn't answer questions with specificity, that she's been holding back maybe to protect her opportunity. Is that something you think would benefit her to work on?

GILLUM: Well, I'll tell you, I think a lot of these candidates are battling with a lot of the narrative around electability and what's going to be required to make it through the democratic primary to beat Donald Trump. What I would suggest is be yourself, get out there and be unapologetic in your beliefs, make sure people are very clear on where you stay in, on the issues, across a range of issues. Trust your gut in this process. Because the truth is I don't believe the American people are looking for perfect.

[18:10:00]

I think they're looking for real. And so if Senator Harris, every day, wakes up with on her mind, how do I present my most true authentic self envisioned for the country,- the commitment I made to myself as a candidate is that I wanted to recognize who I was after the race was over.

And I think Senator Harris along with the other candidates make that commitment that you don't go so far, one way or another, outside of what it is that you believe but rather run on what you believe, give the American people the opportunity to make a choice between a candidate who quite frankly is either, as my pastor puts it, the thermostat or the thermometer. The thermostat obviously sets the temperature and the thermometer tells it. I would encourage the candidates to be the thermostat in this race, in this primary race. Set the temperatures, set the conversation and let people respond to it.

CUPP: Andrew Gillum, thanks so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

GILLUM: Of course. And Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there.

CUPP: Thank you very much.

So how will Kamala Harris break out from the crowded democratic field? See what she has to say about that in an exclusive interview with Jake Tapper on State of The Union. That's tomorrow at 9:00 A.M. Eastern on CNN. Don't miss it.

And up next on Unfiltered, the shadow of Hillary Clinton and other hurdles facing women in the 2020 race.

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[18:15:00]

CUPP: It's a tale as old as time. The media covers women candidates differently than men. It's hard to argue men are rarely subjected to scrutiny over what they wear, how many kids they have, how they juggle work and family, but have we turned a corner? Complaints that the women of 2020 haven't been covered as well as the men, men like Pete Buttigieg or Beto O'Rourke don't really hold water.

According to Politico, Kamala Harris is one of four candidates and two women who have dominated the media's coverage of 2020. Elizabeth warren was just on the cover Time Magazine for policies. Amy Klobuchar was scrutinized for the way she was treated or the way she mistreated her staff. But all the candidates have been scrutinized for everything. Beto's DY and burglary arrests, Buttigieg's stance on vaccines, Biden's touching problem, Bernie's old television show, it's not like the guys aren't getting picked apart too. So have we arrived, ladies, or is there still a lot of work to be done?

Joining me discuss, democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, and former communications for Ted Cruz, Alice Stewart. I'm kidding, of course, we have not arrived. There is still lots of work to be done.

But, Maria, let me start with you. How would you assess the job the media has done thus far treating the women candidates?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do think they've come a long way. We have come a long way. But there is still bias there because there is implicit bias, frankly, in all of us. The reason for that, I think, is because there is no model for a woman running for and winning the presidency. It doesn't exist yet, and so this is all still a work in progress.

And I can see how a lot of women would feel that the coverage of Pete, that the coverage of Beto has been unfairly positive, if you will, right?

CUPP: Glossy.

CARDONA: Yes. And I think we have talked about this, right? If a woman had come out to announce that she was doing this Eat, Pray, Love tour, the way Beto O'Rourke did while his wife, while their husband was staying home taking care of the kids, how would that be taken, right?

CUPP: But in defense, we did not take that very seriously when Beto announced it either. And we all kind of laughed at that too.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. But, still, the reality is -- the way this has always been, the media covers who the people covet. And when the people are coveting people like Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg, they are the top of the polls, that's just going to get the coverage. That's just really the way it boils down. But I do agree 100 percent with Mayor Gillum. When they start debating and these women are head-to-head against the men, they will be able to show that they are strong and tough on the issues, and that's when we'll really be able to bridge the gap.

But in my experience, this is -- we've come a long way but we still have a ways to go. I was communications director for Michele Bachmann in 2012. She would have a debate, she would do phenomenal. She is extremely smart. But after the debate, reporters would call me and ask me what suit was she wearing? Who (INAUDIBLE)? And I would often say, when you call all of the men candidates and ask them the same question, then call me back and maybe I'll answer your question. So there is still some of that but I think we've come a long way.

CARDONA: Can I make one other quick point, to your point about people covet and the media covers? But what comes first, right? People covet what they see. So if they don't see these women candidates as often or as glittery as they see the men, then perhaps they don't know that that's something that they can covet.

CUPP: Well, I just -- I've always -- and I said this back in 2016, when male candidates were complaining they weren't getting the attention that Trump was. Look, it's not our job to boost your profile, right? Go out and do something to get our attention and we'll cover you. And I still think that's true in this case.

Alice, you brought up Mayor Gillum, who I adore. But he said something very interesting just in this interview when we were talking about Kamala, and I'm sure he didn't mean it. But he said, you know, she's not going to be any shrinking violet on the debate stage. We'd just never describe a man that way.

And, again, like I don't think there was any -- he didn't mean anything by it, but there is this implicit sort of, you know, human bias.

CARDONA: That's exactly right. And I think that's what we are combating or up against, because there was a recent Georgetown poll that showed that, still today, 13 percent of Americans don't believe that women have the emotional capacity to be President. Sure, that's a low number. But that is still -- that means women still start at 13 percentage points behind men in terms of that implicit bias. And that is really hard to fight against because it's in all of us. It's not just men. Women also in this poll felt that way.

CUPP: Women can be worse than men.

CARDONA: Yes, absolutely. We may have seen that.

STEWART: I think the democrat talking point that we're hearing a lot lately that they're unelectable because they're women, I just don't buy that.

[18:20:02]

2018 is a living example of the fact that women are getting elected. We just need more women to run, we need them to take confidence in themselves. And Hillary Clinton is a classic example. She had the name I.D., she certainly had the means to do so. And at this stage four years ago, she was at 56 percent and went on to win.

CUPP: I was almost loathe to bring her up because people get so defensive. But, yes, I mean, Hillary Clinton got a lot of scrutiny. She deserved a lot of scrutiny. But I'm wondering if you think some of the women now almost and very unfairly have to sort of shake off like Hillary Clinton baggage, right, just by virtue of the fact that they are women?

CARDONA: They do. And I've actually been in conversations even with democrats who have wondered whether a woman can get elected after Trump because they saw the backlash of what happened, whether it's after Barack Obama because he was the first African-American president and then Hillary, right? Even democrats wonder out loud. I hope it is absolutely not true and I hope that we will prove that wrong in 2020. But it is still an uphill battle, S.E.

CUPP: One final point I just want to make, Kamala gave an interview, I think, to Elle Magazine or she wrote in Elle Magazine, I think, about being a step mom and I think that's really lovely. And I think, you know, we can often say, gosh, men don't ever have to talk about, you know, round out the corners of their life by talking about parenthood. I would like to see more men talk about fatherhood and how fatherhood has informed their politics. I don't want to see fewer women talking about it, I want to see more men.

STEWART: Well, the reality is men have a difficult time leaving their kids at home when they go to work just as women do. So I think that's a valid question on both sides. But I think Hillary Clinton's only baggage is running a presidential campaign as an Electoral College campaign as opposed to a popular vote campaign. If anything else, the women running should say, let's run a popular vote campaign in our Electoral College.

CUPP: I've got to end it there, Maria and Alice. Thank you so much for joining me. Happy Mother's Day.

CARDONA: You too.

CUPP: And coming up next, Syria, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, global hotspots are piling up, but do they matter to voters? 2020 hopeful framing himself as the national security candidate makes the case next.

And a bit later, who will triumph in the battle over checks and balances?

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[18:25:00]

CUPP: For all the political drama that continues to follow President Trump, he is also facing a full plate of foreign policy obstacles, any one of which could explode into full-blown crises. There's escalating tensions with Iran, stalled trade negotiations with China amidst tariff increases on Chinese imports and plans for more, a clear setback in denuclearization as North Korea continues to test short- range missiles and a continued political standoff in Venezuela after U.S. influence failed to produce a quick resolution.

You'd think with a list this long, democratic presidential candidates would have a lot to say about important foreign policy powder kegs. Not so much. But one isn't just talking about foreign policy. He's made national security the centerpiece of his campaign. Massachusetts Congressman and our candidate of the week, Seth Moulton, joins me now.

Congressman, you recently hired Obama administration State Department Official Marie Harf to work on your campaign. I am sure her policy -- foreign policy background is not just coincidental.

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): No, it's not. The fact of the matter is that Trump is failing on these issues and you did a good -- you provided a good summary. I mean, look, his best friend in North Korea is firing off missiles, Iran is talking about restarting its nuclear program and threatening our allies in the region, Venezuela is in chaos after the administration's failed coup and farmers and families are hurting here at home in America because of this tariff war with China. We have got to take him on on these issues.

Frankly, they're where Trump is weak and that's why we've got to take him on, not just in his job as president but in his job as Commander- in-Chief.

CUPP: Yes. I think you'd find a lot of people that agree with you, but is it also fair to say you think there's a gap on the democratic field, one, requiring strong leadership on national security issues?

MOULTON: You know, for too long, the Republican Party has tried to own issues of security, of strength, of patriotism, of what makes America safe. And Trump is not doing a good job. He is failing on every one of those measures, but we've got to provide leadership on the democratic side of the aisle to show how we will make America strong and safe and secure in the world ahead. And that's exactly what I'm doing. We have to be able to lead on these issues if we're going to win this election.

CUPP: Well, and I don't have to tell you this. You know this. Joe Biden, of course, brought his foreign policy chops to the Obama administration, even though they didn't always see eye-to-eye. Pete Buttigieg, Tulsi Gabbard have also served like you. Why are you the guy to be the national security candidate in 2020? MOULTON: Well, I don't know why I'm the only one running on these issues. Because the single most important thing to democrats when I listen to them across this country is beating Donald Trump, and this is actually a place where he's weakest. So we've got to take him on on this measure. And at the end of the day, the most important job of our federal government, the most important job of the Commander-in- Chief, is to keep us safe, to make America strong and secure.

And we need to have a democratic vision for how to do that. I'm talking about how we need to have a totally new generation of arms to meet the rising threat from Russia and China, where they're not attacking us by running tanks into Eastern Europe, they're attacking us through the internet every single day, he need a new generation of alliances to make NATO relevant to today when cyber attacks are the realm and maybe a pacific NATO to help control and contain China and North Korea and a new generation of people who are going to lead on this issue. I think it's time for the generation that went to Iraq and Afghanistan to take over for the generation that sent us there.

CUPP: Look, I know better than most, unfortunately, that getting people to care about foreign policy and what's happening, quote, unquote, over there is a real struggle. I mean, even a genocide in Syria just doesn't hold people's attention. Do you worry that making it a big part of your presidential campaign might be a strategic misstep, as important as it is?

[18:30:03]

MOULTON: No, no, because I think our job as leaders is to show that we do have a vision and we can explain to the American people why this does matter at home.

CUPP: Yes.

MOULTON: Why the President is carrying on a tariff war with China. You're going to see higher prices at the grocery store in the coming weeks and farmers are already hurting every single day. Why it's a National Security threat to the United States? Why California is not safe if North Korea is firing off nuclear weapons? And why we cannot have a rising nuclear power in Iran that's a threat to our friends and allies and even our troops in the region. So, of course, these issues are important.

Now, I'm talking about all sorts of other things as well. I'm the only candidate in this race who actually gets single-payer health care, so I've had a lot to say about what that means and what would really be the vision for health care in our country. So I'm not solely focused on National Security.

CUPP: Sure.

MOULTON: But we've got to take on Trump where he's weakest and he is weak on these issues. We need a commander in chief that we can trust. We need someone that Americans will look to that will actually restore American moral authority both at home and abroad and that's exactly the kind of President that I would be. CUPP: Well, I'm glad you're talking about these issues because

they're really important, whether we agree on them on them or not, you're talking about them and I appreciate you coming on to talk to me about them.

MOULTON: It's a pleasure. There's a lot at stake in this election and it's our safety and security both at home and abroad.

CUPP: Thank you.

MOULTON: And one of the things I learned when I was traveling around this country is that Trump is going to be tough to beat. We've got to take him on these issues.

CUPP: Yes. Thank you so much, Congressman Seth Moulton. All right. Next, I'll ask a Democrat on the Oversight Committee whether our democracy was built to withstand a president like Trump.

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[18:35:29] CUPP: In THE RED FILE tonight, Democrats are sounding the alarm after president Trump's assertion of executive privilege stymied their demand for evidence underlying the Mueller report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): We've talked for a long time about approaching a constitutional crisis. We are now in it.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): This administration wants to have a constitutional crisis.

REP. BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This precipitates a constitutional crisis.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): We keep coming up against constitutional crises.

REP. AL GREEN (D-TX): I'm telling you, we have a constitutional crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: From the sound of things I think Democrats believe we're in the midst of a constitutional crisis. This isn't the first time executive privilege has come into conflict with congressional subpoena power, but does this rise to the level of a bona fide constitutional crisis? For a closer look at this, let's talk to Oversight Committee Member, California Congressman Ro Khanna and former Presidential Adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton; CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen.

Congressman, do you agree with some of your colleagues is this a constitutional crisis?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I would call it a constitutional standoff or what Michelle Goldberg in The Times today said was constitutional hardball. But I think the courts can resolve this and I actually hope Chief Justice Roberts who worked for Judge Friendly, one of the great jurist will realize that the case law here is abundantly clear, Congress has a right under the separation of powers to the information, executive privilege doesn't apply when you're looking at things like obstruction of justice and when National Security is in resolve, so I have faith actually in the courts resolving this.

CUPP: David, this isn't the first time that these competing powers have come into conflict very recently. Not long ago Republicans held Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt after President Obama asserted executive privilege for fast and furious documents. Was that a constitutional crisis or is this situation somehow different?

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER ADVISER TO FOUR PRESIDENTS: No. No, I don't think that was nor is this one. I think we're at a dangerous point and it could turn into a crisis. But, S.E. I think of a constitutional crisis as 1860, 1861 where seven states voted to secede and Lincoln forced them not to, they disagree. Or 1876, when the Democratic and Republican parties disagreed on how three states actually come out in the election, so they were bitterly opposed about who ought to be President cut a deal.

They put Rutherford B. Hayes in the White House in exchange for Hayes, the Republican, bringing troops out of the South and ending reconstruction. I also think of Nixon refusing at first to turn over the tapes when he was ordered to by the courts. Those are crises.

These are confrontations. We're at a dangerous point for our democracy and I think a crisis could come, not yet.

CUPP: Yes. Yes, I think it's bad enough and frankly I worry Congressman that Democrats framing it this way. They're sort of over selling it a little bit. They don't have to, it's bad enough.

KHANNA: Well, I think using the word standoff or hardball is perhaps a better way of phrasing it, but I think the overall theme is very clear of this administration is not complying with basic separation of powers. They're not allowing people to testify. They're not handing over documents and they should and the courts should expeditiously force them to do that.

CUPP: Yes. David, I want to ask you to go with me for a second as I paint the picture.

GERGEN: Sure.

CUPP: There is a famous scene in Jurassic Park where the game warden is telling the group that the raptors had been systematically testing the electrical fences for weaknesses and the raptors, of course, found those weaknesses but that's because Newman cut the power. It feels a little like Trump is testing the system for weaknesses and Republicans are cutting the power.

Congressman Jim Jordan recently tweeted that Donald Trump Jr. shouldn't comply with a subpoena. Congressman Mark Meadows, Senator Rand Paul all kind of echoing those sentiments. What do you think?

GERGEN: Well, I think Jurassic Park is an excellent metaphor. But I think going all the way back to Teddy Roosevelt where the Constitution was silent, wherever it was silent he thought that would gave him a consent or assent to moving forward and stretching the limits. I think the problem with Trump is he's going way beyond anything. Obama went bouncing up against that fence several times.

CUPP: Yes.

[18:39:57] GERGEN: But Trump is going way beyond that and my metaphor right now is more of the frog in the pot, and we're the frog. And if you throw the frog in the pot and it's cold, he'll stay in there, and you gradually run the heat up, the heat rises, the frog doesn't jump out because it's gotten so used to it. You put a frog in a hot boiling pot, it jumps right out.

Well, I feel like we're getting used to if we're getting desensitizing some ways to what's going on and it's just so endless, that it's hard to get people as agitated and feel like, "Yes, we're in a crisis," as Democrats would like to believe. I think we've overused as a general proposition, two words, crisis and historic.

CUPP: Congressman, neither executive privilege nor congressional subpoena power are explicitly outlined in the Constitution. I know you said you think the courts will work this out, but short of an amendment. How do we prevent these kinds of conflicts in the future?

KHANNA: Well, the courts actually have ruled on this and Congress derives its executive or oversight based on the separation of powers. It's clear case law and the case law is very clear. Congress is restricted of oversight when it's going after individuals like in the McCarthy era.

But when it's asking for information from the executive branch, this comes to Federalist 51, this was the heart of our Constitution that ambition would counteract ambition and the courts have said when there is wrongdoing or possible wrongdoing, the executive branch has to comply and they can't invoke executive privilege unless it's National Security and executive privilege doesn't apply if there is possible corruption.

So the case law is very clear and that's why I really hope Justice Roberts and some serious jurists will, for the credibility of the courts, for the credibility of our constitutional system, rule based on the case law.

CUPP: Congressman Khanna and - yes, go ahead, David, you want a final point?

GERGEN: Well, I'm just going to say one last thing. I think that one of the things and one of the issues it's coming to a head is this demand for the Trump's tax returns.

CUPP: Yes. GERGEN: The law on its face is very, very clear that the Treasury

Department has to turn over those tax returns. But the Republicans take it to court and it goes all the way to the Supreme Court or it gets to the Supreme Court and the court orders him to do that and he does not do it, then it's a crisis. Then it's a crisis.

CUPP: Good.

KHANNA: I will say I agree with David. I will say our founders were great. I mean Madison anticipated that enlightened statesmen wouldn't always be at the helm and our founders designed the system to withstand people like Donald Trump.

CUPP: Well, Congressman Khanna and David Gergen, thanks so much for joining me and having this conversation.

GERGEN: Thank you.

KHANNA: Thank you.

CUPP: I appreciate it. All right. Next, our politics may be hitting a new low, but my next guest will prove that civility isn't dead yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:46:51] CUPP: Love and courage, both seem and low abundance in politics these days, but elsewhere they abound for one political leader in Canada that is there so important they have defined his life and served as orienting principles throughout it. You might not know his name, but Jagmeet Singh rose to prominence as the first person of a visible minority group to lead a major Canadian federal party as head of the New Democratic Party 2017. He's also a member of the Canadian Parliament since 2019.

His new book, Love & Courage, is not a political memoir, but a personal one which chronicles his younger years filled with family heartaches, childhood bullying and even sexual abuse he endured. Jagmeet Singh joins me now. It's a pleasure to have you here not just because I think your book is great, not just because I think sharing your story of abuse is so important, but also because the last time I saw you, we were 12-years-old.

JAGMEET SINGH, LEADER OF CANADA'S NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY: That's right. Oh, they have a picture of us. That's so amazing. Wow.

CUPP: We went to ...

SINGH: We're pretty cute there.

CUPP: ... middle school together. We were adorable.

SINGH: Yes.

CUPP: We went to middle school together and you have been very busy since we last saw each other.

SINGH: Well, you too. Congratulations.

CUPP: Yes. So can you tell me why you got into politics?

SINGH: Well, OK, it was a difficult decision for me because we went through a lot of heartache and a lot of difficult times. And so I got to the point where having gone through a lot of struggles I just wanted to survive. And my brother really encouraged me to remember what our mom taught us that it wasn't enough to just survive, if we're doing well we have to thrive and thriving means giving back and helping the people around us.

She always said to me as a kid that we're all connected and if we see people hurting them, we're also hurting. And if we help the people around us, we're also doing well. And so that's why I kind of was encouraged at the end of my legal career to move into politics.

CUPP: Right. Well, and you open up about the abuse you suffered as a child in the book from a Taekwondo teacher. How did you cope with that?

SINGH: Well, initially I didn't want to think about it. I felt it was my fault even though I was 10 years old and it's probably hard to imagine, I thought that I could have prevented it. I thought that I had let it happen and so I felt a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. And a part of why I wrote this story was because I buried it inside, I didn't want to talk about it.

CUPP: Go get it out.

SINGH: Yes. And so the first time I ever spoke about it was to a dear friend and she told me you do realize this wasn't your fault and when she said that it cracked my heart open and I got really overwhelmed with emotion, because I hadn't heard that before. And so I hope that I can tell people who've gone through this before, it's not your fault. Please know it's not your fault.

CUPP: Yes, really, really brave. Bullying is also something that you talk about, we spent a lot of time talking about it. I have a young son, I worry about him being bullied, I was bullied. What's your message to kids and parents?

SINGH: One is pay attention because sometimes you don't know the signs and kids sometimes try to be tough and they hold it in. And maybe there's things going on at home like I had a whole bunch of other stresses at home, and I didn't want to burden my mom. I didn't even want to tell her about what happened to me in Taekwondo. I didn't want to tell her about what I was going through. So try to reach out to kids and to people who might be suffering in silence.

I really want to encourage in people that love of - like appreciating your own self worth, realizing that you've got so much to give and so much to offer and valuing that self-care sometimes you don't take care of oneself. You got to stand up to bullies though and kind of teaching kids how to do that is important as well.

[18:50:05] CUPP: Yes, I remember you talked about one moment where you stood up to a bully at the school we went to together.

SINGH: Yes.

CUPP: It brought me back. Let's talk about politics in Canada, because it seems so much more civilized from this side of the border. Is that true though? Do you all get dirty up there, as dirty as we do?

SINGH: I don't think it's as polarized as it is in the States. We do have disagreements, but I really believe we can't get anywhere if we make it personal and we've got a lot of things in place in the Canadian political system which tries to keep it from coming.

CUPP: Like what? Teach me. Teach us.

SINGH: So we actually make it a point in debate not to name the person by name, so when we're debating you have to say the member from a particular writing or a district or you mention them by title, so prime minister or leader of the opposition. So there's certain things we do in formality.

CUPP: That's adorable.

SINGH: Yes, it keeps it --

CUPP: That's lovely. I love it. I'm jealous. There's been a rise in Trump-like political leaders.

SINGH: Right.

CUPP: You got Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil.

SINGH: In Brazil, yes.

CUPP: Andrej Babis in the Czech Republic, Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines, do you think someone like that could ever get elected in Canada?

SINGH: I hope not. I hope not. I mean the people - we really believe that there's a lot more you can gain from having a civil debate. You can be passionate about making sure people's lives are better and fight for more justice and fairness, but you can do it in a way that doesn't create division. There's a way to find that common link that shares and unites us together and I really believe in that.

CUPP: Well, the book is Love & Courage. Jagmeet Singh, thanks so much for visiting. Let's not wait another 27 years.

SINGH: Yes, this is the first time.

CUPP: Right. I love it. Thank you so much.

SINGH: So cool. An honor.

CUPP: All right. We're back after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:11] CUPP: The richest person on earth wants to expand his reach beyond our solar system or beyond our planet, that is. Amazon's CEO Jeff Bezos on Thursday announced the plan to send people to the moon with the ultimate goal of creating giant self-sustaining colonies of humans through his Blue Origin space company.

The billionaire unveiled a new rocket engine and proposed lunar lander and he plans the first shuttle cargo to the moon in 2024. It's no coincidence that his big announcement just down the road from the Capitol and the White House, NASA lacks funding for any lunar missions in the near despite the fact that the Trump administration wants to return to the moon within five years.

NASA doesn't even have money to build a lander. Meanwhile, Bezos is funding Blue Origin out of his own pocket with about a billion dollars a year. Fellow billionaire space entrepreneur Elon Musk, head of SpaceX took a light jab at Bezos on twitter after Thursday's announcement. Compared to Blue Originin, SpaceX is far more developed, they've already launched satellites into orbit and Musk is skipping over the moon instead spending years talking about putting people on Mars.

Now, you may scoff at the world's richest men fighting over who has a bigger rocket and racing to be the first to create space colonies, but I am here for it, sign me up. I will happily be among the first to move into the new neighborhood on the moon, Mars, Elon, Jeff, call me. OK. That's it for me tonight.

Coming up, Senator Cory Booker joins David Axelrod to discuss the message behind his presidential bid. His take on key issues from climate to criminal justice. Don't miss THE AXE FILES next.

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