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Cuomo Prime Time
New Forecast Shows Hurricane Dorian Threatening Carolinas; Source: Odessa Gunman Purchased Weapon In Private Sale; Bahamian Prime Minister: "Vicious" Dorian Is the "Enemy". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 03, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --you did all you could but to - to have to, you know, just stay there and watch this thing burn, I - I can't imagine what that's like.
BOB HANSEN, EYEWITNESS TO BOAT FIRE: Oh, it was - you're totally helpless. And you know the things go through your mind, it's like, you know, had I known sooner, you know, or they'd have gotten off, I could have picked them all up.
COOPER: Bob Hansen, I - I appreciate again what you did, and thanks for talking with us.
HANSEN: Ah, you're welcome. Thanks, Anderson. Nice talking to you.
COOPER: Well, obviously a lot more to learn about what happened. News continues right now. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, Anderson, I appreciate it. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Reports from the ground in the Bahamas are just heartbreaking. The need is going to be so great for so long because of Dorian. This is the most powerful storm to ever hit there. We have new pictures to show you.
And we're going to take you live to a survivor who escaped his home with only the clothes on his back, and barely, but he managed to rescue others, and it's amazing story.
We have another person, who's like so many there right now, begging for word about family.
Plus, we have a government official on the rescue efforts underway, and what their expectations are.
The question now is where will Dorian go next and in what way? We have the path, the most likely outcomes. Florida seems out of the woods. I mean, it's really hard to say with this storm because of how it lingers. The Carolinas, they better get ready.
So, what we were just talking about with Anderson, that dive boat bursting into flames in California, why did only crew members survive? Why did so many die so young? The situation does not meet our expectations. And I'm going to argue why this - this is something that we're going to need to look at more.
There's plenty to care about tonight. So, what do you say? Let's get after it.
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CUOMO: All right, so here is what we know now. Florida's East Coast is picking up in terms of wind, all right? Dorian is moving very slowly. And that's going to - duration is a danger with every storm.
This storm is so damn slow that the National Hurricane Center says this will be a long duration event, heavy rain, soaking, saturating, flooding, storm surge, whipping it up, making it higher, more damaging, the wind obviously being able to exacerbate everything. Isolated tornadoes, as well, in part, because of that linger effect.
So, Georgia and the Carolinas, that is the next area of heavy focus.
I like to be very qualified in this reporting because we really don't know. We don't know if on that outer edge of the East Coast right now that duration winds up turning this into a saturation and flooding event that we didn't expect.
So, we're going to be giving you the latest on what we know and what we're looking for going forward in just a second.
But what I want to do right now is I want to take you back to the Bahamas because this is what we already do know. I have never seen pictures like this. I know this area very well. I've been there a lot. I've covered storms in the area for a long time. And they have been crushed.
Now, death toll, I know it's a major indicator. You got to wait. I know that they've increased it from five to seven. They have not been able to surveil. They can't communicate. So, to put that number out there, it is our responsibility. That is the official number. But you're going to have to be patient. We have no idea of the impact of this.
Already they're saying 13,000 homes destroyed. The construction on that island, you know, some of it is cinder block that's very strong. A lot of it is not. The stories are starting to trickle in. People stranded on rooftops, people seeing babies unattended, people swimming through floodwaters to get to safety.
Who knows how many are still in need of rescue? There's so much water. Emergency officials have no way of getting to some of the areas, let alone individual cases. There are almost no means of communicating right now. So, it's just anybody's guess. So, let's do this for perspective. Take a look at these before and
after pictures of Grand Bahama Island, all right, some of the best construction there, some of the most tolerance. Look at what's - water is filled up in all those different areas.
I mean, literally, it reminds me of what we saw in Southeast Asia with Banda Aceh and the tsunami. Literally, this was the worst-case scenario for the Bahamas with Dorian hovering for days before moving out.
Let's get the very latest on the path now from Meteorologist Tom Sater. This - this speed of this or the lack of speed has been the determining factor--
TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right.
CUOMO: --so far. Do we expect any change in rate of forward progress?
SATER: I think it will start to pick up a little bit. But even moving at six miles per hour, Chris, really, all things considered, that's a slow-moving system still.
You know those pictures that you were showing us, a lot of the survivors said they could see the storm surge, water slowly rising, but then they were hit by this wall of water, and that's what the upwelling was in the eye. It's inside the eye that this bubble of water was 20 and 30 feet high, so that's what hit them as that Cat 5 went across the entire area.
[21:05:00] Starting to see some dry air move into this. That would be nice. That would break the system down. Unfortunately, when we get in closer, the winds wrapping counterclockwise are coming in from the Northwest. I want to go back to that picture you showed moments ago, because it's interesting to note.
Here's the Airfield, and here is Freeport. When you look at the inundation, the Airfield was under five to six feet of water. Those winds right now are coming in still from the Northwest. So, it's impeding the retreat of the water.
Until those winds shift and move out of the area, we're not going to see the damage on the Airfield, so they can get some aircraft in there. Closer inspection now of the radar, still coming down in Abacos Islands. That's got to be so scary for those who haven't been found yet, because it's a third night now in total darkness.
The rainbands now that were intermittent are becoming more widespread. The surge, I think, could create some breaches of the dunes. But the big factor here is the Carolinas.
CUOMO: Right.
SATER: I still think we may have a landfall maybe near Cape Fear, but problems could happen from around Jacksonville, St. Johns River, and Charleston Harbor. That's our next focus in the days ahead.
CUOMO: All right, Tom, and look, we know situations change. We got to stay with you. You've been doing a brilliant job.
SATER: Yes.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. Keep your energy up, Brother. We're going to need you.
SATER: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, so you - you go from the numbers to the human reality, and there's so many who feel so alone right now. Some literally are. They're waiting for help. And others are dealing with the just horrible, horrible unknown.
I want to introduce you to somebody like that, all right? 20-year-old Romea Roelle, all right? She's in just dire straits. She's at school. Her home has been devastated. Everyone she knows there basically has been out of contact for days, since at least Saturday, parents, siblings, grandparents, no word.
Romea, I was telling you before we did the show, we're going to try to get you word. You'd be surprised how telling your story like this, somebody may know somebody, who knows somebody, and we'll get you word that at least what matters most, that your family's OK that that's the situation, then you can deal with everything else.
How are you holding up, young lady?
ROMEA ROELLE, BAHAMIAN RESIDENT SEARCHING FOR FAMILY: Yes, Chris. Thank you. I'm one of hundreds if not thousands of Abaconians who reside off of the islands or out of the country for school or simply just moves away for work and alike.
And while we appreciate the - the updates from Central and South Abaco, we're hearing very little from our friends and relatives in the nine settlements further north, and it's taking a serious toll on us.
CUOMO: So, when you say it's taking a serious toll, when's the last time that you heard? What did you hear last? And how are you dealing with it?
ROELLE: Well the last I've heard from some relatives was Saturday. My mother, the last I talked to her was Sunday evening, and she simply sent me a message saying that they're - they're hoping for the best. It wasn't looking too good in their area.
My grandmother suffered a stroke years ago, and she has limited use of the left side of her body. My uncle was staying with her, and he's diabetic.
The last I heard from them was Saturday - was also Sunday evening. And they said they were OK. But everyone was just worried because the weather conditions were worsening. And that's the very last I've heard from them.
And this may be due to major network carriers being down or roads being blocked. But the last we've heard for them - from them were - was days ago. And now, we're getting information trickling in from one or two settlements.
But, like I said earlier, there are nine settlements in the far northern end of Abaco. And it seems as if our relatives have just washed off the planet like we're not hearing anything from them.
CUOMO: Well, God forbid, hopefully it's just about communications, not their actual circumstance. What is it like for you to be seeing these pictures of your home?
ROELLE: The pictures are taking a toll on me. It's causing me to panic because I have relatives in those areas as well that I have yet to hear from, not only bad, it - it - it's taking a toll on me because I'm - I'm seeing these pictures and videos, and it's hardly - hardly recognizable.
These are places that I've grown up, places that I've been visiting my entire 20 years of living, places I just visited visiting home over the summer. And now, I look at them, and don't even recognize where they are.
CUOMO: Well, you know, we were just talking to somebody on the island. And in terms of when they'll get communications going back up, I know that that, you know, you have some very capable people on their way down there from the U.S. government.
You have veterans outfits, NGOs like Team Rubicon that are getting on the ground, trying to help with communications and recovery, but it's going to take some time.
I know it is asking so much to be patient when the most important thing for you to know in the world is being kept from you, and that time just seems to go forever.
But I think that you're going to have to find a way to be patient because I just don't think it's reasonable to think they'll get word out or they'll be able to canvass areas for, you know, at least the next 12 hours.
[21:10:00] ROELLE: Yes. I have gotten word from various people that are also from my community, and I've heard that everyone in my community of Mount Hope, North Abaco, I've heard that they're safe, and they're all accounted for. But I've yet to actually speak to anyone.
I've heard also that the U.S. personnel are on the island, and they are assisting with search and recovery efforts, and I do appreciate that.
But I have yet to hear anything, like I said, from the nine communities in the far north. I have yet to hear anything from my immediate family. And it's - it's - I'm really concerned.
Myself and, like I said, hundreds of others of us away at school with relatives in the far north of Abaco, and we're yet to hear from our relatives, and - and it's - it's heartbreaking, honestly. CUOMO: I - I - I can only imagine. Look, I know that you're already doing this, but stay close to the people that you know from there, and that are trying to get word. We have your name and your face up on the screen right now.
If anybody comes to us, our producers have your information, and more importantly, you have ours. You check back in whenever you want. If we hear anything about the region, the area, or anything about your family specifically, I promise you we'll get it for you.
And I hope you get word soon. I'd love to report that everybody's safe.
ROELLE: Thank you so much for giving me an outlet and for getting - for helping me get the word out there. It's - it's - it's really a great help because, like I said, we're really worried and concerned about our relatives.
CUOMO: We're showing some of the pictures you gave us. You got a beautiful family. God bless them. And I hope to get you word or you give it to me soon. Romea, be well, stay calm best you can.
ROELLE: Thank you. I'll try.
CUOMO: Boy, that's tough, being that young, and the people who matter most to you, you just, in these circumstances, you just don't know.
And I don't know what's worse, I mean, you know, not knowing what happened, when these are the people who matter the most, or knowing all too well because you barely made it through.
Imagine being stuck in places like this for days. Emanuel Bowleg did it. He managed to make it through in those conditions, and he managed to save others, people who were in tender situations. He joins us right now.
Emanuel, how is the connection?
EMANUEL BOWLEG, BAHAMIAN RESIDENT WHO ESCAPED FLOODS: It's fine. It's fine, Chris.
CUOMO: You - you sound great. You were talking to me before the show. And you said, you know, up until a couple of hours ago, it was still storming. What is the condition for you right now?
BOWLEG: Yes. It's just - just windy. It's - it's not really strong. It's not as strong high waters, couple hours ago or couple days ago, but it's just when you had no rain, it's - it's manageable.
CUOMO: Well let's talk about what's manageable for you because you are a very capable man. You're playing dominoes one second. Your father's diabetic, it's hard for him to move around. The water starts to overwhelm. And you found a way to get yourself and him out of that house.
I heard you had to deal with overturning a boat and finding a way to get in it. What did you have to go through to get to safety?
BOWLEG: Well after my three friend - that's my two friends come up with a plan to go get the boat, which was still strapped down to the trailer, we had to go underneath the water, pull it out, and fight the currents, and try get my father on the boat, which was really hard.
And the hardest part was trying to maneuver around trees, bushes, because the current carries wheel (ph) off the course, we were originally supposed to go. So, it really it took us an hour - an hour and 30 minutes just for us to get to land.
CUOMO: Wow! Thank God you are OK now. We know that - look, you dealt with the hardest part. You survived. We know the need is going to be great.
Emanuel, I will keep people informed about what's going. I'll tell them how to help. I'll stay in touch with you, so you can let us know how you're doing going forward, and what people need, OK?
BOWLEG: Yes. That's much appreciated, Chris. This storm, I don't know, I don't know, I lost a lot, but at least we still have our life.
CUOMO: Thank God! Everything else you can replace. And I know that that's solace. But I know it's also not going to be easy. We'll stay in touch, Brother, be well, and God bless.
BOWLEG: Thank you. You too.
CUOMO: Amazing! Imagine that, what they had to deal with going under the water, in a hurricane, to cut a boat free, and figure out how to get it, and get your father in it, the stories, we're going to keep hearing them, and we got to listen to it, because we got to stay together in this.
The need is going to be so great you have to believe it's going to reach epic proportions. They've never had a storm this powerful, this long, in that one place.
Take a closer look at the unprecedented damage that it left behind in the Bahamas. We're going to take you through it. The islands have never been hit by a storm like this.
Remember the value in that. We don't know what it - it's going to be like. We don't know what it will take to recover. I'll take you through what we do know. We have more continuing coverage, next.
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CUOMO: Our analysis of Hurricane Dorian is no longer about hopes or even hype, it's about history. We have never seen anything like this before, because of its duration, and it's sitting there as a Cat 5 for as long as it did.
Look, I felt the impact of many big hurricanes, many different times, but not for days straight at this kind of intensity. I just pray what we learn about the loss isn't the worst of it.
From the air, you can see it's just destruction everywhere in the Bahamas, this scene goes on for miles and miles. And also, look, as dramatic as this is, as comprehensive, as complete as the devastation is, when you look around, we have not seen lots of different areas that are not as built-up as whether it's Grand Abaco or the Grand Island of Bahama, it's - there are other places that just aren't as good, in terms of their ability to weather a storm.
[21:20:00] Even local authorities aren't sure if everyone who lived even in the built-up places are alive. They can't get out. There's too much flooding and there are no communications. This is two days of being pounded, not two hours, not 10 hours, two days.
Dorian did something that we almost never see. It just sat still. The strongest storm to ever hit the Bahamas moved just 30 miles in 30 hours. That's a lot of water in places like Abaco, Grand Abaco, and Grand Bahama, neither of which has many areas more than, you know, 40 feet above sea level.
Now, thanks to radar mapping, you can see here what that means, all right? Flooding just about everywhere. Now, the waters are starting to recede.
But you heard Tom. There's some back side winds that are keeping the water from going out. That is going to extend the duration. That's going to extend the period that people are dislocated from help, all right?
And then, once they get past it, then we'll start to learn this real story. So, let's be very careful with numbers. It had been five people lost their lives to this storm. Now it's seven. I'm going to tell you we have no clue what the extent to this is.
God willing, it stays at seven, maybe even goes to six. You know, they find out that somebody's alive who they didn't think was. But in situations like this, when they haven't even searched most of the island, you just you have to be careful, and you have to wait.
We know already, more than 13,000 homes are damaged or destroyed. That's almost half of all the homes on Abaco and Grand Bahama. Think about that in terms of rebuilding.
What does it mean in terms of people? 62,000 people out of some 70,000 there don't have fresh water, OK? That's something that is fundamental and life-sustaining. They're going to need it for days or weeks.
That number - that kind of percentage of the population and that kind of need, it's going to take a massive recovery effort. There's going to have to be all kinds of cooperation.
Now, look, maybe we're becoming a little numb to this because Dorian is the fifth Cat 5 hurricane in just the past four years. That in itself is a record. But then, again, Dorian ties for the strongest winds we've ever seen made landfall.
You'd have to go back to 1935 with the Labor Day storm where you had gusts of a 185 miles an hour. You know, when we were in Irma, everybody was making a big deal about what we were in. That was only like a 140 mile an hour gust, let alone sustained winds, so much higher for days.
We've also never seen an Atlantic storm gather strength as quickly as this one did. Take a look at the radar loop. For all the fascination about what it has done, what does that mean about what it does next?
Now, we were just talking to Emanuel. As you can see in here, he's saying that it was stormy just until a couple of hours ago. You see that they have - have some outer bands they're going to have to deal with.
What Tom was saying about the - the dry air that's coming in that breaks a storm apart, right, they like the moisture, it's different because the - the winds, the prevailing winds are coming from up here, so now they're worried about it.
Again, if it bounces along here for a very long time, it can totally change how bad this can be in this area. And if it then comes in as strengthening as it moves up with warm water, that's why we're so worried about the Carolinas, all right?
But let's keep our focus on what we already know. The Bahamas and what it's going to take.
We have a government official on the ground there, who's doing his best to survey the situation. The question for him is, at this point, do they believe that this is about recovery or these islands just never going to be the same? Please, stay with us.
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(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: All right, let's get some more perspective about what we still don't know. You know, there's a tendency in these situations to think "Well it's over now." This is just the beginning.
We have a government official on, the Minister of Tourism and Aviation. Dionisio D'Aguilar is on the phone with us last.
Now I was - I was happy, Dionisio, I was able to make you laugh a little bit saying how beautiful your name is. But this is a horrible - a horribly ugly situation to meet in. What do you know at this point? And how big a question mark is the unknown?
DIONISIO D'AGUILAR, BAHAMIAN MINISTER OF TOURISM AND AVIATION: Well, you know, obviously, everybody's been seeing the images on social media. And it is as devastating as it seems.
Our Prime Minister had the opportunity to fly up there today. Of course, he couldn't land because the runways and the airports are still underwater, and we haven't been able to get into the port to see what may or may not be blocking them.
But from his overflight, he estimated many of the homes, a large portion of the homes were completely destroyed, gone was his expression, nothing left.
And so, and - and those that are remaining, those structures that are remaining are - are - are, you know, materially damaged. And so, we are facing a tragedy of historic proportions to the Bahamas.
We are a country of 400,000 people. And these two islands, Abaco and Grand Bahama, they - they encompass about 70,000 people. So, it's - it's between 15 and 20 - have been impacted by this storm. And so, it's - it's - it's - it's huge. We've never, never dealt with something as significant as we are now.
CUOMO: And even though--
D'AGUILAR: And--
CUOMO: --there are a lot of areas that made it through, you're saying, you're in Nassau, and there it was relatively mild. You said it was just tropical force winds. Of course, everything's relative. Nobody wants tropical force winds, but it's much better than a Cat 5 hurricane.
But you were concerned that while some places weren't hit at all, the places that were, you have some dense populations, how long do you think it'll be before you know the extent of the damage and the loss, both property and human?
D'AGUILAR: Well obviously our assessment teams, I think, are going to be able to finally get in tomorrow, either by boat or by helicopter because, you know, the airports, it's going to take some time for the water to recede, and for the runways to be cleared, and for planes to start getting in there. [21:30:00] You know, you mentioned in your first segment the fact that the storm hovered over the island of Abaco and Grand Bahama for so long, and that has hampered a relief effort.
Usually a - a hurricane is - can be very fast-moving, and it goes through, but you can get on the ground, and start the relief. So, we're all staged in Nassau or sitting in Nassau, which is the capital city, where the bulk of the population is.
Everybody's anxious to get up there to see their loved ones and to discover the extent of the damage and to see if there's any further loss of life. We're praying that there are not. But we just don't know.
So, we're going to get on the ground, hopefully tomorrow, but only in small numbers because we can only go up there by helicopter.
CUOMO: Right.
D'AGUILAR: The boats can arrive. So, you know, it's - it's the fact that we don't have access to our airports is - is indeed hampering the ability to get into assess and to begin the search-and-rescue mission, which will be our - of course, our first.
CUOMO: Understood. And as we learned in Puerto Rico, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen for days and weeks to come about how people being dislocated, and not being able to get the medical help they need, not getting the drugs that they ordinarily need, things that were lost, what kind of toll that takes on the population as well, and that's why we all have to remember that we're in it together.
And we'll keep the word out so that the recovery efforts stay, and that people come together to help such a beautiful place get back up on its feet. Dionisio, let me know what we can do to help, and God bless you going forward.
D'AGUILAR: Thank you so much.
And - and just to your - to your listening public, you know, the rest of the Bahamas is open. So, if you were thinking about a holiday, the - the rest of the Bahamas is there. But obviously, our northern islands are - are completely knocked out.
CUOMO: Right. The best way to help, put money into the economy. One of the most beautiful places on Earth! Be well.
Now, we'll be checking in with these people. And - and we'll do that to give you information going forward. But, you know, you have to have some perspective on this as well.
100-year storms, you know, we have like a 100-year storm every year, every other year now. We've had Category 5 hurricanes now year after year. And what do you do about it? How much of this is weather and how much of this is an extension of a climate crisis? Tomorrow night, Democratic Presidential Town Hall event, very big. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Booker, O'Rourke, Yang, Castro, all here on CNN, starting at 5:00, all focused on the issue at hand, all right?
We're also dealing with another issue, much different kind of tragedy, not natural, it's man-made. How the Texas murderer got his gun goes to the heart of the madness that surrounds mass shootings.
We have a Great Debate on what should be done, next.
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CUOMO: Seven more murdered in West Texas, didn't have to happen.
The killer who had already failed the background check, according to the Governor, went around the system, bought his weapon through a private sale. That's a loophole. You need to close it. It makes perfect common sense.
But it's going nowhere unless Senator Mitch McConnell gets approval from the President to do it, which is a fiasco in its own right, but let's debate it with Rick Santorum.
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CUOMO: Let's put aside the idea of the Senator needing the approval of the President to do his job. Let's just put that to the side because I know you don't believe that's right, but that's where we are.
Often, you guys will say, "Hey, what difference would it have made in this case what you want to do?"
In this case, it would have stopped this from happening. If gun sales, no matter what the type of transaction, went through a background check, this wouldn't have happened. Why not do it?
RICK SANTORUM, FORMER U.S. SENATE MEMBER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, as a matter of fact, it - this really does show that - that passing a lot of laws sometimes they're good things to do to try to stop people from doing bad things, but they're only good if they're enforced.
One of the biggest problems with gun crimes in - in America today is like straw purchases, commission - committing another crime with a gun, and - and the example here.
Someone who goes in and makes an application for a firearm, as they did, and was denied, that's a prosecutor - that's - that - that can be prosecuted, in fact, should be prosecuted. That's that - someone who lies on a background check to get a gun, and they're not prosecuted.
In fact, there was a GAO report just out last year in September that said a 181,000 people misrepresented themselves on a - on a background check were - were found ineligible to purchase a gun, and almost none were prosecuted. In fact, I'm not sure any were prosecuted.
CUOMO: All right, so you want to enforce the law.
SANTORUM: So, here's the situation - here's the situation--
CUOMO: So, I hear you.
SANTORUM: --where some - where someone failed a background check--
CUOMO: Right. And it wasn't enforced.
SANTORUM: --could have been prosecuted--
CUOMO: Right.
SANTORUM: --could have been imprisoned, could have been investigated, and it wasn't. So, the point is you can pass a whole bunch more laws.
CUOMO: All right.
SANTORUM: But the laws in place right now are not being enforced. And there are plenty of laws--
CUOMO: OK. But that--
SANTORUM: --to catch these people.
CUOMO: Look, I hear you, except the current law wouldn't catch this person because--
SANTORUM: It did. It should have.
CUOMO: Hold on, Rick. They caught him when he failed the background check. They didn't prosecute it. I'd give you that. That's not my point. My point is--
SANTORUM: But that is the point.
CUOMO: No, it's not the point. The point is--
SANTORUM: Because if he would have been prosecuted--
CUOMO: Rick, hold - I understand.
SANTORUM: --he wouldn't have done this.
CUOMO: But you don't know what would happen in the prosecution. You don't know if he would have been found guilty. And if he were, what kind of sense it would--
SANTORUM: If you look at this guy's history, and you look at--
CUOMO: --and what the timing would have been. But--
SANTORUM: --you look at this guy's history--
CUOMO: --what I'm saying is this.
SANTORUM: --this - this guy could have been--
CUOMO: I know.
SANTORUM: --put in prison for that.
CUOMO: But Rick, I'm telling you, it's a - it's a distraction from the point. Whether it's a gun show or - listen, Rick, I mean I don't know what you're getting frustrated by it.
SANTORUM: It's not a distraction.
CUOMO: Whether it's a gun show or whether it's a--
SANTORUM: It's the point.
CUOMO: --private sale, why wouldn't you have all transactions checked? There is no logic to support allowing any transactions to go without a background check.
SANTORUM: As you know, private transactions can only be conducted within the state, so you can't sell a firearm to someone from out of state. There are many states that don't allow private transactions.
CUOMO: But I know. And that law--
SANTORUM: So--
CUOMO: --can work. This guy wouldn't have gotten the gun that way.
SANTORUM: And they - and what they do is - is do what, you know, I'm concerned about, and I think a lot of people who are concerned about the Second Amendment are concerned about, and freedom are concerned about, which is they unduly put restraint on people, 99 percent of whom are law-abiding people, to catch people that you can do a lot of other things, much more efficiently to catch--
CUOMO: How is it an undue restraint?
SANTORUM: --than burdening-- [21:40:00] CUOMO: All you do, look, you - I wanted to give my - one of my guns to my son. OK. I just go. I go to a store. You find an apparatus. You got a state law here in New York State to figure out how to do it. And you have him checked. He's OK, he can have a gun.
My freedom's intact. His freedom's intact. And we are not burdening the freedom that also people have to not have a bullet put through their head.
SANTORUM: Again, as I - as is in this case, there are lots of other much more effective ways in targeting people who are dangerous with guns than asking people who are not dangerous with guns to go through a lot of--
CUOMO: So, a guy goes around the background--
SANTORUM: --bureaucracy across--
CUOMO: --check, finds a loophole--
SANTORUM: That - that - that had to have been prosecuted--
CUOMO: --you don't want to close the loophole?
SANTORUM: --he would have been caught.
CUOMO: But why wouldn't you close the loophole?
SANTORUM: Why wouldn't you prosecute the guy in the first place?
CUOMO: Why wouldn't you do both?
SANTORUM: Well because - because - as I've - as I've said before, why are we trying to take it - take and - and - and give additional restrictions to law-abiding people in - instead of focusing on the people who are doing--
CUOMO: Law-abiding people--
SANTORUM: --who're committing crimes?
CUOMO: --will get their guns. I'm telling you, Rick.
SANTORUM: And criminals will get their guns.
CUOMO: I see both sides and a lot of issues.
SANTORUM: And they won't use it - and they won't do legal--
CUOMO: I don't get this.
SANTORUM: --do it legally.
CUOMO: I'm a gun owner. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in every Amendment in the Constitution. I think that the idea that some sales will be checked, but other sales won't be checked is basically saying, "We're not that concerned about who gets weapons--
SANTORUM: Except--
CUOMO: --in these different situations."
SANTORUM: Except that private--
CUOMO: And now you have a guy who just murdered people with a loophole that you won't close.
SANTORUM: Except that private sales are - are used for an infinitesimal amount of - of - of--
CUOMO: But what's the difference?
SANTORUM: --these kinds of crimes.
CUOMO: The background check wouldn't stop me or you from getting a weapon. If you're a law-abiding citizen, like 99 percent as you say, I wish that were the right percentage. But--
SANTORUM: And--
CUOMO: --why wouldn't we just go through it do it the right way? You'll still get your weapon.
SANTORUM: OK. Because, again, the - the reality is that criminals do not obtain their weapons, by and large, in fact overwhelmingly, they don't obtain their weapons through--
CUOMO: But you say all the time the change you want would have done nothing in this case. The change in this case would have kept the gun out of this guy's hands.
SANTORUM: And in this case--
CUOMO: And it hurts nobody--
SANTORUM: --in this case--
CUOMO: --to do it.
SANTORUM: --as I said, had the law been enforced in the first - first place, you wouldn't have gotten to that - that second purchase. So, again, the question is you can pass more laws. We can - we can try to keep some guns--
CUOMO: It's not passing more laws. It's being consistent with the law you've already passed.
SANTORUM: We can--
CUOMO: And it's something that the overwhelming majority of this country and gun owners is in favor of.
SANTORUM: We can pass-- CUOMO: I don't get who you're fighting for on this one.
SANTORUM: We can pass--
CUOMO: To be honest.
SANTORUM: We can pass more laws to keep some guns from - from everybody or - or we can pass laws, and I am for passing laws, to keep all guns from some people. And what - what I think what a constructive--
CUOMO: This is the some person--
SANTORUM: --a constructive conversation--
CUOMO: --and you won't pass the law that would have kept it from him.
SANTORUM: --a constructive--
CUOMO: This guy was intent on getting a gun the wrong way. He lied on a form.
SANTORUM: Great.
CUOMO: He got through the system. He found another loophole. And you don't want to close it.
SANTORUM: I'm saying--
CUOMO: It makes no sense.
SANTORUM: --enforce the laws that - that catch people who are going to do harm. And - and - and I'm open to passing new laws that are focused on people who are, you know--
CUOMO: Yes, just not this one.
SANTORUM: --risk to do harm.
CUOMO: Just not this guy.
SANTORUM: No. I--
CUOMO: And the law that would be focused on stopping him.
SANTORUM: Well actually we had a law that could have caught this guy, and it wasn't enforced.
CUOMO: But that's not a rationale for not having another law that goes to what he specifically did to get the gun.
SANTORUM: I am open and I think Republicans are open. We are looking at--
CUOMO: All right.
SANTORUM: --red flag laws. We're looking at other types of laws that focus--
CUOMO: This has nothing to do with the red flag law, this one.
SANTORUM: --that focus - well I think it would. This man had - had obviously some mental health issues, lots of other issues that could have - could have been dealt with more effectively than keeping - hassling law-abiding people from acquiring guns.
CUOMO: It's not a hassle. I don't think it's a hassle.
SANTORUM: It is a hassle.
CUOMO: Gun owners don't think it's a hassle. Every time we ask them, they say they're in - they're into reasonable things and they think all transactions should get it. I just don't know who you are arguing for on this one.
Rick Santorum, I appreciate the argument.
SANTORUM: You bet.
CUOMO: It helps the audience to hear.
SANTORUM: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, so man-made catastrophe, could fix it, don't want to fix it, some weird logical jumble to get us to that.
Natural disaster, can't stop it, but we can come together to deal with what the storm did. And we have the Prime Minister of the Bahamas with us live with an update, next.
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CUOMO: The Prime Minister of the Bahamas, Hubert Minnis, joins us now over the phone. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you so much for taking a moment.
HUBERT MINNIS, BAHAMIAN PRIME MINISTER: Thank you. Thank you for having me here this evening.
CUOMO: You were right. When I met you before the segment, I said I'm sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but you made the right point. No, now is the perfect time to meet, now is the time you need to get the word out. What do people need to know?
MINNIS: People need to know that the Bahamas, we have been attacked by a vicious devastating storm, an enemy that we would have had very little defense against such an enemy, and it's caused severe damage to two of our major islands, that is Abaco and Grand Bahama.
New Providence, which is the engine and the touristic center of the Bahamas has not been touched, and it's still functional. That is our economic engine for the entire Bahamas. And New Providence will help to rebuild those two islands.
Island Grand Abaco, which we've surveyed this morning with the assistance of the American U.S. Coast Guard, the southern aspect of Abaco has not been as severely damaged as the central and northern aspect.
As we travel north, the major airport is essentially underwater, the runway and adjoining areas to the airport is underwater, and in fact, it looks like a lake.
[21:50:00] Then moving into the major city in Abaco, which is Marsh Harbor, I would say about 60 percent of the homes in Marsh Harbor are either destroyed or damaged, and our community, which is the Haitian community has been completely demolished, completely destroyed.
Then as we travel north on that island, the other airport, the Treasure Cay Airport, though the runway is functional, the connecting roadway between the main road and airport is impossible, as that is also underwater.
And traveling the main road to the northern aspect of the island, the roadway's somewhat disconnected, broken, and in some places where it's not broken, it's underwater, so it's impossible.
CUOMO: We're showing - we're showing Marsh Harbor right now to the audience. I know the Harbor well. I've been there several times. I've never seen it look anything like this. It's amazing how complete the devastation is.
What can the United States do? Have you been in contact with the United States, the White House, and the federal government? And is anybody there yet to help as liaison?
MINNIS: We have excellent communication and relationship with the United States. The United States has been assisting us from day one, even before the storm has - has - had hit us, United States is very assisting and tracking the storm and - and keeping us abreast as to when and the type of storm that the - that we may encounter.
Immediately after the storm had passed, and there was some degree of movement of vehicles or - or other transportation facility, be they aircraft or helicopters, the United States has been available, and assisting immediately, not only in transportation, but also in - in materials, equipment, food, and personnel. So, we've gotten great assistance. United States have been in our area as quickly as possible to assist to ensure that we get back on our feet as quickly as possible.
CUOMO: Great.
MINNIS: We are grateful and thankful.
CUOMO: Is there anything else that you need? Is there anything that we should get out to people now in terms of what you've already assessed and what the islands need to help - to get help from the outside?
MINNIS: I think we would need - at this point in time, we're concerned about security, safety, and - and food. So, we would need lot of water and dried food and whatever other assistance the international community can give.
As you know, we would have to rebuild our infrastructure. Lot of infrastructure within Abaco, we have not yet surveyed Grand Bahama, but I can assume that a lot of infrastructure in the Grand Bahama community would have also been--
CUOMO: Sure.
MINNIS: --just damaged.
CUOMO: Have you heard from the President?
MINNIS: Not personally. But the President's representatives have been in communication with us regularly.
I can - I can say that they have been in - in communication with us, and myself, and other members of my cabinet on a daily basis, asking us what else we need. And whatever we inform them--
CUOMO: Great.
MINNIS: --that's - it's - we are obliged and assisted.
CUOMO: Great. Now that - that's great to hear that the U.S. has been responsive. We obviously have tremendous capabilities. And obviously, there's such a close relationship with the Bahamas, just 50 miles off our shores.
In terms of how long do you think it will take for you to know how much need there is, and how long do you think the situation will be desperate there on the ground in terms of the basic essentials for life?
MINNIS: Well we expect the all-clear tomorrow. And we will go in to do an assessment. In terms of rebuilding the island, that would take a while. However, Bahamians, we are resilient nation, and we would not want those on the islands are affected would not want to leave.
And we're - as a - as a resilient group of people, we will all rebuild, we will all come together, and we will rebuild. We've been destroyed before, not as bad as this. We've experienced hurricanes. We've had great degree of destruction.
But in spite of that, we've been able to mobilize whatever internal resources, and assisted by international community, and we've been able to rebuild, and we will continue to rebuild. And we will rebuild our two islands that have been devastated or destroyed. And we will have them back in a functional state as soon as possible.
[21:55:00] CUOMO: Prime Minister Hubert Minnis, thank you so much, Prime Minister, for taking the time. We'll be in contact. Let us know how we can help get information out that people need to know about what's happening to their brothers and sisters in the Bahamas. Be well and God bless going forward.
MINNIS: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: All right, we're not going to leave this story. Stay with CNN. We'll have much more right after the break.
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CUOMO: All right, we're going to be handing it off to D. Lemon right now with CNN TONIGHT.
We're just starting to learn of the toll that was taken on Grand Bahama Island and on Great Abaco Island. You'll be hearing say "Well, lot of the Bahamas are OK." Yes, but the parts that we're hit were devastated.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We'd never see a storm this powerful be there for this long.
LEMON: When I heard the stories that were coming out of it yesterday, and even the day before, I knew that once the pictures came back, you know, once the storm passed that we would be hearing stories of devastation, and the pictures that we would see would be unprecedented.
And even the meteorologists were saying for them to withstand this kind of wind and storm surge for that long that the Bahamas at least those parts would be forever changed by it.
CUOMO: Yes. I've been in Marsh Harbor several times. And I got to tell you, you can't even recognize it right now. We'll see what happens when that water finally backs out of there.
It is good to hear that the United States has been responsive and on it and helping from even before the storm. The Prime Minister said he couldn't ask for anything more.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I think that's great.
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