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Cuomo Prime Time
Corey Lewandowski Refuses To Discuss Conversations With Trump; Trump: Hispanic Supporter Looks More "WASP Than I Do"; New 2020 Poll Shows Shakeup. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 17, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: --almost every Warren campaign event. The campaign says, an important way of growing grassroots support and spreading the word on social media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have friends who were at the Washington Square Park event last night, and waited for selfie for a very long time. And it was worth it to them. And they've gotten a lot of mileage on social media.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's selfie time.
(CROWD CHEERING)
MJ LEE: MJ Lee, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: All right, news is - let's hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME.
Chris, I went over at 9:30. I lived near there. There was still a line out (ph). I was like "What are these people waiting in line for?" I thought it was like a new ice cream store.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: We - well it's always a chance. That was not an unreasonable assumption. But we have the Wizard of Odds here to take us inside the numbers that may indicate why there is growing enthusiasm.
Thank you, my friend. I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
In my hand, we have new information about that whistleblower claim that the DNI has not sent to the House Intel Committee. This is their explanation for why it's not going to happen. Where it stands? What is likely to follow? We'll take you through it on our watch.
And today was the first impeachment hearing. Did hauling in the President's ex-Campaign Manager help or harm the Democrats' potential obstruction case? Cuomo's Court is about to convene, and it's the perfect night for it. And if the President really loves Hispanics more than the country, as he said last night, he sure has a warped way of showing it. We have a Trump loyalist caught in the middle of the latest MAGA rally madness.
And Sean Spicer drumming up a Deep Stage conspiracy, after his Dancing with the Stars debut, we have some hard truths for our Lime Lad.
What do you say? Let's get after it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, so look, on the impeachment front, Democrats had to know what they were going to get from Corey Lewandowski at this first official impeachment hearing, nothing, but a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): How many times did he direct you to deliver a message to a member of his cabinet?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: The White House has directed to not disclose the substance of any discussions with the President.
NADLER: Did he ever - did he ever discuss with you any concerns that he may have committed a criminal offense?
LEWANDOWSKI: The White House has directed to not disclose the substance of--
NADLER: Very good.
LEWANDOWSKI: --any discussions with the President or his advisers.
I recognize that the privilege is not mine, but I've been asked by the White House to--
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): But this was a public - I'm going to continue.
LEWANDOWSKI: Congresswoman, I'd be happy to answer your question, or you can just have a conversation by yourself.
(CROSSTALK)
S. LEE: --Trump campaign.
LEWANDOWSKI: But if you'd like to ask me a question--
S. LEE: Trump, no--
LEWANDOWSKI: --I'll be happy to answer. S. LEE: I'm going to--
This is a House Judiciary, not a house party.
LEWANDOWSKI: Oh, I'm sorry. Nobody in front of Congress has ever lied to the public before. I'm sorry.
BARRY H. BERKE, LEGAL COUNSEL, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: Sir, is that an admission that you did lie?
LEWANDOWSKI: Absolutely not.
I have no obligation to be honest to the media just because they're as just as dishonest as anybody else.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Do you have a thought as to why we continue to engage in a charade that is overwhelmingly opposed by the American people and fundamentally misunderstood by my Democrat colleagues?
LEWANDOWSKI: You know, Congressman, I think they hate this President more than they love their country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, not sure what this hearing means for the future of any impeachment pursuit. But if this President didn't do anything illegal, as Lewandowski claimed, then why get strict marching orders to keep a lid on it?
There's also this breaking news tonight on that subpoena issued by House Intel Chair, Adam Schiff, to the President's Acting DNI, Joseph Maguire. Now, his office has failed to meet a deadline to hand over a whistleblower complaint request, and he explains why in a letter that is in my hand right now.
Let's bring Cuomo's Court into session with Asha Rangappa and Jim Schultz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO'S COURT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Asha, let's deal with this instant matter from the DNI. The DNI says it is sensitive to the Executive Branch. It is not about intelligence, so you do not get it, Adam Schiff.
Have you had a chance to see this letter?
ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I've had a chance to review it briefly.
And here's the problem is that the law basically gives the Inspector General the authority to determine when this information needs to be turned over to Congress. It does not give the DNI the opportunity to second-guess that determination.
And let's just remember that the reason that Congress has this oversight power over Intelligence functions is precisely because of all of these abuses and Deep State conspiracies that, you know, the - the Trump Administration tries to - to propagate.
In other words, if they believe that all these things are happening in the Intelligence Community, there is oversight. This is the - this is how we get transparency. That's why we have this law to turn over whistleblower complaints, so that Congress can see exactly what is going on.
CUOMO: So, they say here, the complainant raised the matter with the Inspector General, the ICIG, the Intelligence Community Inspector General, and that that's why the identity has been protected from others within the DNI. We're not going to permit the complainant to be subject to any retaliation or adverse consequence. That's the whistleblower part.
They said, given those protections, the complaint forwarded to the I.G. doesn't meet the definition of urgent concern, Jimmy. The definition says that it should be serious allegations relating to the funding administration or operation of an Intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the DNI.
[21:05:00] This complaint, however, concerned conduct by someone outside the Intel Community and did not relate to any Intelligence activity under the DNI's supervision.
Satisfying?
JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I - look, this is going to be this - the typical push and pull between the Executive Branch and the - and Congress. I - I suspect that this is going to get worked out between the two of them at some point in time.
This is somewhat of a delay tactic. We really don't know a whole lot because we don't know what's in the complaint, so it's - it's really difficult to speculate as to - as to why they're holding this back.
CUOMO: But we don't have to speculate about why they want to know it. Put - put up that one piece of the letter--
SCHULTZ: Sure.
CUOMO: --that is instructive here.
"The complaint here involves confidential and potentially privileged matters relating to the interests of other stakeholders within the Executive Branch."
Now, Asha, that screams this has something to do with the White House.
RANGAPPA: That would be my interpretation, Chris. I think that really the bottom line here is that Congress has authority to review this complaint. I mean it's as simple as that.
And we continue to go through this dumb charade every single time there's a law. We've done it with the tax returns. We're now doing it with the Intelligence Community. And, let's be honest, this is about an issue of national security.
For the - the Inspector General to basically say this is something that needs to be reviewed, it means that there may be other equities at stake that may be even more important like our, you know, our national security issue, so--
CUOMO: But the tactic winds up being the same.
RANGAPPA: --I mean that - that - that's what I have to say.
SCHULTZ: Yes, I mean, look, the - that--
CUOMO: But the tactic winds up being the same, Jimmy.
SCHULTZ: --this dumb charade has been going on for--
CUOMO: Yes, but see Jimmy, all right, so Jimmy, good.
SCHULTZ: --administrations and administrations.
CUOMO: Right, I know, I know. But--
SCHULTZ: Right? I--
CUOMO: --let - let's - let's - let's just deal with the charade part for a second because that's what we saw today. And it's a good segue into it. Asha is right that there are certain circumstances where the House Intel Committee is supposed to look at this.
What this President and his counsels' strategy is, is very clear, fight it anyway. Corey Lewandowski asserting Executive Privilege today is a crock, and you know it, and I know it, and anybody who's been in law school for a minute knows it.
But they're just saying "Just delay."
SCHULTZ: You got that wrong though, Chris. You--
CUOMO: How?
SCHULTZ: At the - at the outset, you got it wrong.
CUOMO: How?
SCHULTZ: Because Corey Lewandowski didn't assert Executive Privilege.
CUOMO: I know. But he's saying that the White House asserts the privilege.
SCHULTZ: The President did.
CUOMO: No, don't play games. The White House asserts the privilege.
SCHULTZ: Right. And it's the White House's privilege.
CUOMO: But he says the--
SCHULTZ: I mean, right, same thing with McGahn and--
CUOMO: It's not the White House's privilege.
SCHULTZ: --Porter. I get it.
CUOMO: It's only their privilege--
SCHULTZ: I get it.
CUOMO: --if the privilege attaches. And he never worked in the White House, Jimmy. You know this. Don't play their same game.
SCHULTZ: And they're - and they're - but they're--
CUOMO: You're better than that.
SCHULTZ: --but they're - look, the White House's letter is relying squarely upon Office of Legal Counsel opinion out of the Department of Justice, which - and they're making the argument that this needs to extend to outside advisers as well.
CUOMO: Since - but when has that ever happened?
SCHULTZ: So, it's a slippery slope. What?
CUOMO: There's not one case that has--
RANGAPPA: Never. Never.
CUOMO: --ever said--
RANGAPPA: It's never happened.
CUOMO: --it should extend. It's just meaningless litigation--
SCHULTZ: But - but to the - to the extent that the legal--
CUOMO: --to slow a process that they say they have nothing to worry about in.
SCHULTZ: --it's to the - it's to the extent that this - to the extent that the--
RANGAPPA: Chris?
SCHULTZ: --Office of Legal Counsel has opined on this, and I'll let you go, Asha, in a second, the Office of Legal Counsel has opined this. They certainly have a legal basis to make that assertion. Now, a court may look at it, and - and say "Look, this is all hogwash."
CUOMO: May?
SCHULTZ: But at this point in time, the - the--
CUOMO: There's a better chance of having a court decide that I'm a swan.
SCHULTZ: Right, well--
CUOMO: Asha?
SCHULTZ: No, I think you're wrong about that, Chris.
CUOMO: But how? There no case on precedent.
RANGAPPA: Chris--
SCHULTZ: And here's why. Here's why I think you're wrong about that.
CUOMO: Let Asha get in.
SCHULTZ: So - so--
CUOMO: Let Asha get in.
SCHULTZ: --you're lying (ph)--
CUOMO: Hold on, Jimmy, Jimmy. Hold on.
SCHULTZ: OK.
RANGAPPA: Chris?
CUOMO: Asha, make the counterpoint.
RANGAPPA: Look, yes, this is like Oprah like look under your seat, everybody has Executive Privilege. Look, who doesn't have Executive Privilege at this point? I don't really care what the OLC says. They make disingenuous arguments.
Any kind of Presidential communications privilege is about his advisers providing him with advice on his Article II duties. And Corey Lewandowski was not advising him on any Article II duties. He was being asked to commit a federal offense.
And even if there were some privilege here, there would be an exception to that privilege, precisely because there is a potential crime that is involved. I mean like we are really in the Land of the Dumb at this point, and it becomes, you know, absurd to continue to try to explain this over and over.
I think the American people see this. And the bottom line is that - that this attorney who, who - Mr. Berke, who questioned Lewandowski, at the end, really exposed this for the sham that it is. And, you know, M.A.G.A., Make Attorneys Great Again!--
SCHULTZ: It's kind of interesting that you rely upon the attorney at the end.
RANGAPPA: --because he did a great job.
SCHULTZ: Because - because up until that point, the hearing was a sham. I mean let's face it. The Democrats didn't have a good day today. I mean from the outset, unprepared--
CUOMO: Because he wouldn't answer any questions.
SCHULTZ: --and--
CUOMO: He wouldn't even come on this show.
SCHULTZ: OK. Unprepared and incompetent. They didn't even have - Chris, you're a lawyer. You know, before you ask a question, you lay some foundation. They didn't even have the document handy to lay the foundation--
CUOMO: Why would they need the document to ask--
SCHULTZ: --to ask a question, which is absolutely silly.
CUOMO: --Corey if he ever met with the President about something?
SCHULTZ: Because if they're going to--
CUOMO: Come on!
[21:10:00] SCHULTZ: --if they're going to ask questions about what he said to Mueller, and going to cite that report, the same reason that when Mueller went in there, he stayed within the four corners of that document, Lewandowski's going to stick to what he said to Mueller as well, and has the right to do so.
CUOMO: I'll tell you what. The most--
SCHULTZ: But let's get back to--
CUOMO: No, no, no, I don't have any more time, Jimmy.
SCHULTZ: --let's get back to that for one second.
RANGAPPA: Hey, no, no, no, Jim.
CUOMO: I - I don't have any more time.
RANGAPPA: Jim, Lewandowski--
CUOMO: Well I got to - I'm out of time.
RANGAPPA: --testified that--
CUOMO: So hurry up.
RANGAPPA: --he had never read the report.
CUOMO: Yes. But, look, let's just leave it there. We're going to learn more, obviously, about where the Democrats are going on this.
But the only thing that came out today, it wasn't really even provoked by a question. Corey Lewandowski wanted people to know, "Yes, I lied to a member of the media because they're just as dishonest as anybody else." I guess that includes him.
For an environment where people feel OK not telling the truth, this hearing, this whole process, is going to be a mess. And it started that way today.
Asha, Jimmy, thank you for making the arguments, appreciate you both.
The President gave a strange shout-out, last night, to a different loyalist, while he was trying to reel in Hispanic voters. Did you catch this moment?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He happens to be Hispanic, but I've never quite figured it out, because he looks more like a WASP than I do.
(CROWD LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, does he have a case that can be compelling to a majority of Latinos? This is what this is supposed to be about. He lost New Mexico. Can he win it this time?
The man is here to make the case and be tested.
I think you're just handsome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, so POTUS' return to New Mexico, a state he lost in 2016, prompted this bizarre pitch. So, it singled out, at first, one of his key Latino backers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He happens to be Hispanic, but I've never quite figured it out, because he looks more like a WASP than I do. (CROWD LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: But I'll tell you what, there is nobody that loves this country more or Hispanic more than Steve Cortes.
Who do you like more? The country or the Hispanics?
STEVE CORTES, MEMBER, TRUMP 2020 RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE: Country.
TRUMP: He says the country. I don't know. I - I - I may have to go for the Hispanics, to be honest with you. We got a lot of Hispanics. We love our Hispanics.
(CROWD CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, Steve is here now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: ONE ON ONE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: I mean the obvious question of whether the President loves all Hispanics are only those who love him.
So, forget about how he put what he put to you last night. He's not the greatest wordsmith. It was a little clumsy. You recognize that. None of that matters to me.
Here's what matters to me. How can the Latino community believe that he loves them when he has said so many anti-Mexican, and even anti- Puerto Rican, things, how can he love Latinos when he's shown such animosity?
CORTES: Well first, I would challenge you on what, and we can certainly go through the examples of what you claim is animosity toward Hispanics. But I think what Hispanics want from politicians, what most Americans want from politicians, is results.
And so, it's not necessarily so important that they have a man who speaks in an incredibly measured and lawyerly way, someone who will never ever offend them. What matters is delivery is that--
CUOMO: Or just tell us the truth.
CORTES: What matters is the deliverables is making their lives better. And, in that score, the security and the prosperity of Hispanic- Americans, of all Americans, but particularly Hispanics, since that's what we're focused on here, this President has simply been an amazing leader for Hispanics.
They have seen their incomes, for instance, are growing at much faster than the national rate for the first time in a decade. Hispanic men are the fastest-growing income group of any demographic in America.
Small business is flourishing in this country. That's something that's particularly important for our community because, statistically, we are the most entrepreneurial demographic in America.
So, I think a lot of Hispanics look at Donald Trump, and they may say, "Look, I would like him if he phrased things differently."
I myself would like it sometimes, believe it or not, Chris, if he phrased things differently. I'm the one who has to come on television at times and explain when he says something.
CUOMO: But it's not about - it's not just the phrasing. I'm dismissing that with respect to you and what he said about you last night.
You know, you say here's what people want. You are assuming that there is no basic question of dignity involved that all it is is about their pocketbook. Sure, we care about our pocketbooks, me, you, of course. But--
CORTES: Right.
CUOMO: --when you are a member of a group that has been denigrated time and time again, this man who described the caravans coming here as being mostly "Murderers, and rapists, and some, I assume, are good people," and all this stuff about the S-hole countries, and what he said about Puerto Rico, and treating them like they weren't even part of the country, you can't forget that stuff when you're in that community.
And you know it's reflected in his numbers. You know it's reflected in his numbers.
CORTES: Look--
CUOMO: He's got a third of them, at best. How do you think you get to a majority?
CORTES: By the way, but a third of them, look, well let's put that in context, a third of them is incredible, Chris, compared to expectations, as you well know.
CUOMO: For somebody who says bigoted things about them all the time--
CORTES: In - in 20 - no.
CUOMO: --maybe.
CORTES: No. He does not say bigoted - look, that is not true.
CUOMO: Really?
CORTES: That is fake news for you to say that he says bigoted things. He does not, you know--
CUOMO: Oh, Steve. Stop that crock talk. CORTES: No, no, no.
CUOMO: It is not fake news.
CORTES: You stop. No, you stop the crap.
CUOMO: The guy denigrates them on a regular basis.
CORTES: You know, listen, you know what is bigoted in my opinion?
CUOMO: Yes, what?
CORTES: What's bigoted is saying that we are going to turn the Border into a racial issue when it's not, all right, because America is not a race. And so, by protecting America, you are protecting Americans of every color, whether they are Brown or Black or Purple.
But what has the media done on a consistent basis? It's tried to make his tough Border policies inherently, or somehow, systemically racist. And I would argue in fact--
CUOMO: Because he has depicted the people--
CORTES: --that--
CUOMO: --who are coming to the Border as savages who are bombarding the gate.
CORTES: Some - some of them are.
CUOMO: And to the extent that - listen--
CORTES: Some of them are, Chris.
CUOMO: But why - but - but--
CORTES: And we know that. We know that.
CUOMO: --overwhelmingly they are not.
CORTES: By the way, we--
CUOMO: Why don't you talk about the--
CORTES: But--
CUOMO: --majority instead of the smaller slice? Why do you--
CORTES: Because--
CUOMO: --try to depict an--
CORTES: Chris--
CUOMO: --entire population by the few and not the many?
CORTES: I don't. I don't.
CUOMO: You just did.
CORTES: No, no.
CUOMO: You just did, Brother.
CORTES: I didn't. I didn't.
CUOMO: You just did.
CORTES: I did not, Chris.
CUOMO: You just did. You said--
CORTES: Chris, be fair. I didn't. I said some of them are.
CUOMO: I know.
CORTES: And some of them are.
CUOMO: But that's the point.
CORTES: That is the reality.
CUOMO: But why wouldn't you say most of them--
CORTES: I must--
CUOMO: --aren't?
CORTES: Look, all of them, if they're coming illegally, all of them are committing a crime, OK? We know that. Now, that doesn't mean they're a savage.
But all of them are committing a crime, and all of them are unwelcome when they trespass into our country. We know that. Some of them, in addition, are very dangerous. Now it's a minority for sure.
CUOMO: Yes.
[21:20:00] CORTES: But a small minority can wreak havoc. And, by the way, primarily--
CUOMO: He did not talk about it that way.
CORTES: --primarily wreak havoc upon Hispanic-Americans. That's the thing that this--
CUOMO: That's right.
CORTES: That's what this President, I think, has been so strong on.
CUOMO: He's never said that.
CORTES: He recognizes-- CUOMO: Before.
CORTES: --that the people - the people who suffer the most from illegal immigration, from the ravages of illegal immigration, from the unfair wage market competition, from the very preventable crime of--
CUOMO: So he's - so he's worried about that.
CORTES: --illegal aliens, the - the victims--
CUOMO: That's why he hires illegal workers and doesn't tell the truth about it.
CORTES: It's--
CUOMO: And that's why you guys dragged Katie Steinle's family all over this country as an example of who we're trying to protect from these Marauders at the gate because he's worried about the--
CORTES: I don't--
CUOMO: --impact on the Latino community?
CORTES: I don't - I don't drag anybody's family across. But I will tell you this.
I - I talk a lot about a woman named Sandra Duran, a young Hispanic- American mother in Los Angeles, who was killed much like the Kate Steinle case, by somebody, an illegal alien, who was deported five times previously.
That's a totally preventable death, a beautiful, young Hispanic- American who was dead because we made a decision in this country to be soft on Borders. And California, specifically, made a decision to be a so-called Sanctuary City. I - I even hate that term because--
CUOMO: If you are so worried about--
CORTES: --it's only sanctuary for the criminals.
CUOMO: --preventable deaths, then you would attack poverty, the way you attack the Southern border, because those are the most--
CORTES: And, by the way--
CUOMO: --preventable homicides we have.
CORTES: I'm--
CUOMO: People who in a fit of desperation do stupid and even evil things as a product of that. But that's not what--
CORTES: I'm glad you--
CUOMO: --guys talk about.
CORTES: No, I - well I sure do.
CUOMO: You talk about the Border.
CORTES: I'm glad you mentioned poverty, Chris.
CUOMO: He's going around, looking at homeless people, and he's worried about them cluttering up spaces--
CORTES: I'm - I'm--
CUOMO: --that people want to rent.
CORTES: Chris, I'm glad you mentioned--
CUOMO: He's not worried about the homeless people.
CORTES: I - I sure am.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
CORTES: I sure am. I'm glad you mentioned poverty because the poverty rate for Hispanic-Americans just reached an all-time low. Again, in no small part--
CUOMO: Then why aren't they polling for the President then?
CORTES: Well they're going to. They're coming that way, Chris. That's the thing--
CUOMO: They are?
CORTES: --here's the thing. Yes. There are polls out there--
CUOMO: He's at the same number where he was in the exits.
CORTES: --from this year, from 2019 - no. There are - look, there's a lot of polls all over the board, but some of them, and granted, they may be outliers, some of them show his support as high as 50 percent. Got one of them--
CUOMO: Put the job approval up.
CORTES: --one of them being from NPR, by the way, not exactly a Right- leaning organization. We'll find out the--
CUOMO: 67-29.
CORTES: --the - the - the poll that I care about is going to be on Election Day, is going to be in a little bit more than a year. And I am confident that this President is going to do incredibly well among Hispanics.
CUOMO: Why?
CORTES: I certainly see it anecdotally when I go--
CUOMO: Is he going to stop talking about them this way?
CORTES: No because--
CUOMO: Is he going to stop separating kids at the Border?
CORTES: Look, Chris, what he is doing is delivering the conditions for prosperity for Hispanics in America. That is what is most important.
CUOMO: If you keep encouraging people not to come to--
CORTES: That's what Hispanics want most from government.
CUOMO: --this country, and that diversity is no longer a strength, and that immigration is a dirty word, how - how are you making it--
CORTES: Wait. No, no, no, wait. Chris--
CUOMO: --how are you making a pitch?
CORTES: --stop - stop setting - Chris, stop setting up a red herring. I didn't say any of that. And stop trying to--
CUOMO: Not you. I'm talking about the President.
CORTES: Look, stop trying to conflate--
CUOMO: Just because you're his echo doesn't mean that you say everything he says.
CORTES: No, I'm not his echo. And that - that's unfair. And I'm offended that you would say that about me.
CUOMO: Sorry.
CORTES: I'm not echo. I dis - I disagree with him. Thank you.
CUOMO: When?
CORTES: Apology accepted.
But look, when it - when it comes to immigration, you and a lot of folks in the mainstream media constantly try to conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration. And they have nothing--
CUOMO: Never.
CORTES: --they have--
CUOMO: Never.
CORTES: --nothing to do with each other, OK?
CUOMO: He reduced the number of legal immigrants--
CORTES: So, immigration--
CUOMO: --also.
CORTES: Immigration--
CUOMO: He wants reductions in the policies that allowed his wife's family to come here.
CORTES: Immigration--
CUOMO: It's not just illegal immigration. It's legal too.
CORTES: OK.
CUOMO: And you know it.
CORTES: Immigration is not a dirty word. Diversity is certainly not a dirty word. And this President is showing that, by the way. He's showing again that in his policies he wants prosperity for all Americans.
And the people who did the worst under the slow-growth Obama-years, working-class people of all colors, and then particularly minorities, are now doing the best. They have leapt to the front of the line economically in this country and--
CUOMO: America is not just about money. It's about respect--
CORTES: No. I was just saying - yes.
CUOMO: --and dignity--
CORTES: I agree.
CUOMO: --and humanity.
CORTES: And he wants to secure the Border--
CUOMO: That's what the country is about also.
CORTES: And he wants to secure the Border, more than anything, to protect Hispanic-Americans. And one of the reasons I know that is because he's told me that personally in conversations.
CUOMO: Well he should say it to everybody else.
CORTES: Well I - perhaps he will.
CUOMO: It shouldn't be something that he keeps just to intimates--
CORTES: Perhaps he's watching. And--
CUOMO: --Steve.
CORTES: --and - and he will say it more.
CUOMO: He's always welcome to come on this show to make the case--
CORTES: You know--
CUOMO: --to the American people. I'm out of time. Finish your point, please.
CORTES: You know, when I - I gave a speech, actually, before the President gave that speech in New Mexico. And I told a very quick story of the very first time that I got to go in the Oval Office after we won in 2016 that right after he was inaugurated, he had me into the Oval Office.
I thought of my immigrant father, and thought that I hope he is smiling down upon me that his son's a confidante to the President. The first thing he asked me, "Steve, what can I do for Hispanic- Americans?"
That was the very first thing out of his mouth. No - no cameras anywhere, no journalists, because it's part of his heart and it's part of his plan for a country that is prosperous for all people.
CUOMO: I hear you say it.
CORTES: That's who he is.
CUOMO: But--
CORTES: Hispanics will see that.
CUOMO: --I've never seen a poll that reflects it because he's got to make it better known because what comes out of his mouth--
CORTES: We're going to have one next November.
CUOMO: --is a reflection of his heart. It's not what you're saying right now. But, Steve Cortes, I appreciate you making the pitch, as always.
CORTES: Thank you, Sir.
CUOMO: All right, there is a new 2020 poll out tonight, the first national measurement of the state of the race on the Democratic side since last week's big debate.
But, you know, I see the headlines on the poll, people are missing the meaning. It's not just about who is up. It's about why.
[21:25:00] We got the Whiz here with the big numbers, next.
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CUOMO: All right, there are new poll numbers tonight that suggest Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren have successfully separated themselves from the field. Biden still leads, but Warren continues to climb, and may have an edge in some respects.
The Wizard of Odds is here with insight.
And you know my point. My point is it's not who moved. It's why.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Yes.
CUOMO: Tell us.
ENTEN: OK. So, first of all, let's just show that movement.
[21:30:00] So, this is an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. Biden is up from 26 percent in July to 31 percent. Now, Warren though is the biggest mover. She's up 6 points, from 19 percent in July, to 25 percent now.
I should point out that is her best national poll of any pollster who CNN will actually put on the air, so this is an important number for her.
Now, you're asking me why are her numbers - why are her numbers climbing? Well I think that this will give you a pretty decent idea of why her numbers are climbing. Take a look at this.
"Are you enthusiastic about certain candidates?" And they asked this for Warren, Sanders, Biden, among Democratic primary voters. Look at this jump from June to now. She's climbed by 9 percentage points, 26 in June to 35 percent now.
CUOMO: So, you see it in the crowd sizes that are getting bigger and bigger, like we saw in New York City here, the enthusiasm around her, but go back to that first one for a second.
ENTEN: Yes, I will go back to that first--
CUOMO: How much of a factor is the one red arrow?
ENTEN: Yes. This is a big factor. And we - we see, of course, that Biden also climbed, right? I don't want to lose track of that.
CUOMO: So, where are they getting it? They - they're getting more of the pie. Who is getting less of the pie?
ENTEN: So, Kamala Harris is getting a lot less of the pie.
Of course, you remember, she had that first debate performance where she - she jumped all the way up in the polls. But, after that first debate performance, she, simply put, has not been able to deliver among Democratic primary voters.
I should point out there's one thing on here that we - that is not on here that is a big reason why both of these two have climbed.
Those who say they are undecided at this - at this point has dropped from 8 percent in July to 2 percent now. So, it seems that more voters are actually deciding, at least at this point, who they want to vote for.
CUOMO: Well what happens is, is as the field winnows, you're going to have to see who was certain about somebody, but now that person is out, and where those people go.
Race?
ENTEN: Yes. So, I think that this is though, we spoke about this last week Chris, and this is the key part of it, right? If you look among White Democratic primary voters, Elizabeth Warren up 28 percent, to 27 percent for Biden.
But take a look here. This is the big question for Warren. Among African-Americans if - and every single Democrat nominee since Bill Clinton in 1992 has won African-American Democrats. Joe Biden still has a tremendous lead here, 36 points over Elizabeth Warren.
CUOMO: Where was this the last time?
ENTEN: That - Biden is up a little bit. Warren's up a little bit.
CUOMO: He's up?
ENTEN: He's up a little.
CUOMO: Even after the stuff about the social worker and the record player.
ENTEN: Even - even the - I have to be honest with you, Christopher.
Just because something is made a big deal by those in the press does not necessarily mean that those who are actually voting are thinking of it as a big deal, and this is something we've seen over and over again with Joe Biden.
The President's "Oh, my God, it's a gaffe. Holy Cow!" And the voters just go "It's not a gaffe in our minds. We still like this guy."
CUOMO: College education. What is about (ph)?
ENTEN: Yes. I just think, look, if you're talking about the press, you know, again, most of the people in the press are college-educated voters.
Elizabeth Warren, among those White college degrees, she's up 34 percent to Joe Biden's 23 percent. But among non-college grads, who are White, look at that, Joe Biden up 38 percent to 25 percent. The two big divides at this point between Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden, and besides ideology, is education and race, and we're going to see how those play out.
CUOMO: Now, two things non-measurable. One is, you know, my suggestion was that in the African-American community, hearing that you have to be taught how to raise your kids, was not going to be met well, and I thought it'd have to be cleaned up. It hasn't been yet.
The second thing is this crowd size. Just to see what I was talking about with Elizabeth Warren yesterday, I haven't seen crowds like this, except for Bernie, when he was getting his big rallies going. It's not something that you can measure. But enthusiasm matters in politics. It can be contagious.
ENTEN: Enthusiasm matter in politics. But you mentioned Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders didn't win the nomination. Enthusiasm matters. But you still need the votes--
CUOMO: True, true.
ENTEN: --to actually win.
CUOMO: You right, Whiz, as always. Thank you very much to Harry Enten.
ENTEN: Shalom!
CUOMO: Shalom! You're a little late on.
ENTEN: I got it in.
CUOMO: You're a little late though.
All right, former Deputy FBI Director, Andrew McCabe, is about to join us. He is under the threat of prosecution by the Trump DOJ. I know you keep reading online that there's an indictment. We know nothing about it.
He has not discussed the prospect or given his defense to the latest allegations. We will ask about both, next.
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CUOMO: So, my next guest wasn't in the room today at the Lewandowski hearing.
But he was on the minds of a lot of Republicans, who talked about needing to look into how the Russia probe started, an area the House Minority Leader seems convinced will lead to criminal charges.
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MARIA BARTIROMO, ANCHOR, MORNINGS WITH MARIA & MARIA BARTIROMO'S WALL STREET, FOX BUSINESS: Are we going to see accountability though really? I mean--
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Yes.
BARTIROMO: --Andrew McCabe, they are recommending charging an indictment here. Will we see an indictment?
MCCARTHY: We will see an indictment.
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CUOMO: Former FBI Deputy Director, and CNN Contributor, Andrew McCabe, is here.
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CUOMO: For the record, you have not been indicted. Still true?
ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's as far as I know, Chris.
CUOMO: All right.
MCCABE: Yes.
CUOMO: So, to hear McCarthy say "He will be indicted," is that just a suggestion or could he know something you don't?
MCCABE: Well I suppose it's possible that he knows something I don't. We only know what we know from listening to the same rumors and things that pop up in the media. We haven't - the office has not responded to us with any significant information.
But I have to tell you that listening to the Congressman's comments, and the other comments that we're hearing from other folks on the Hill, kind of very forcefully leaning forward, and weighing in, on a pending Department of Justice decision is extraordinary. It's incredibly inappropriate.
It's not something I've ever seen before in my time, working around cases, and working as an investigator, and working with prosecutors seeking indictments, it is just a remarkable - a new low, I think, for - for us. CUOMO: Well it's a - it's a new age--
MCCABE: It certainly is.
CUOMO: --that's to be sure.
MCCABE: Yes.
CUOMO: And you're in the middle of it.
MCCABE: Yes.
CUOMO: Now, here's your problem. Your problem is that they want to make a case that you consistently, or multiple times, didn't tell the truth about what had happened between you, people in your charge--
MCCABE: Right.
CUOMO: --and the media with respect to the Clinton Foundation.
MCCABE: Yes.
CUOMO: What is your answer to why you gave answers that were wrong, at best misleading, by their theory?
MCCABE: Yes. Sure. So - so, to be clear, I absolutely reject the findings and the conclusions of the I.G. report that accused me of exhibiting a lack of candor in - in several instances, absolutely reject and--
CUOMO: Why?
MCCABE: I never intentionally misled anyone about anything. And I certainly have not committed a crime.
I was asked questions on two separate occasions about an article that had appeared months before, I was asked questions, completely unprompted in the middle of other, far more intense and challenging issues that were swirling around me at the time.
When I thought, after the fact, that those answers may have been inaccurate, or mistaken, I reached out to those folks to make sure that they understood exactly what I meant, and understood exactly what the situation was so.
[21:40:00] CUOMO: Well explain that for people right, because that is what--
MCCABE: Well--
CUOMO: --translated as you give what - you gave an answer, and then you went back and corrected it because you knew it was wrong.
MCCABE: That's simply not - not true. That is not - not what happened in my case. And I can tell you that there are many, many investigations. As an investigator, I sat down with folks, interviewed people all the time.
And many times, after those interviews, people would call you back, re-contact you, and say, "Hey, I told you this. I've thought more about it. I need to - I need to make sure you have the right understanding."
The Department of Justice, in my experience, never brings charges against people in those situations. It's a bit peculiar that they are pursuing charges against me under these circumstances.
CUOMO: If their theory is "Comey asked you about it. You gave an answer that wasn't accurate. The I.G. asked you about it. You gave an answer that wasn't accurate," why didn't you know the right answer when they were asking you?
MCCABE: Well Chris, I can't tell you what they think. I can't tell you what their theory is going to be. And, at this point, I am confident that if they follow the facts, and they follow the law, I have absolutely nothing to worry about.
CUOMO: So, your lawyers have, you know, they haven't made their case yet, obviously. There is no case.
MCCABE: Of course.
CUOMO: But there is a suggestion coming from your side that yes, some of the things that Andrew offered up at some point was - were not completely accurate, they had to be fixed. Why wouldn't you know the right answers?
MCCABE: I'm not going to comment on things that my lawyers have said. You know, obviously, it's an ongoing investigation.
And I'm trying to be as absolutely forthcoming as I can be with you here today. But I'm limited in what I can say until we find out from the - from the U.S. Attorney's Office exactly where this thing sits.
CUOMO: So, if they bring a case, and your lawyers say, listen, this - this - this is - there's some questions here, and they're offering a deal. We think this was inconsistent. We call it lack of candor. Now, it's going to be a perjury charge. We believe he gave false information - 1001, whatever they want to put you under.
"You didn't tell the truth. We got you on it." They offer you a deal. Will you take a deal in order to go on with the rest of your life, if there is no big criminal attachment, you don't have to do any time or anything like this?
MCCABE: Absolutely not, under any circumstances.
CUOMO: No deal?
MCCABE: Absolutely not, under any circumstances.
Chris, I had said to you, I've said from the very beginning, I absolutely reject that report because I never intentionally mislead anyone about anything. And I will not stand up and claim that I've done something that I didn't do. So, it won't happen.
CUOMO: And the political stick will be no one is above the law. And you're going after the President.
The Democrats, they would argue, the FBI, that he lacked candor also that he would not tell the truth. He wouldn't answer questions, and you have to go after people that way. Why doesn't that apply to you?
MCCABE: The law applies to me in the same way that does to every other American, and certainly, including the President as well.
They - the Inspector General made a referral to the U.S. Attorney's Office. They have investigated, I assume, thoroughly. We haven't heard what the status of that investigation is. I - as I said, if they follow the facts, and they follow the law, I am confident that nothing will come of it.
CUOMO: Look, and as I said to you, I do you no favors here if I don't ask you--
MCCABE: Of course. Of course.
CUOMO: --what matters to people. I got two other things for you while I have you.
MCCABE: OK.
CUOMO: One, this letter that I asked you to review before, the idea of the DNI saying "You got it wrong. This complaint doesn't really deal with Intelligence. We're not going to give it to you. It's only sensitive to the Executive Branch, not to you."
You ever seen anything like this before?
MCCABE: I have not seen anything like this before. I am - I don't profess to be an expert on the statute that empowers the ICIG to determine what they are, or not, going to give to Congress. So, I have to put that - put that out.
But, in my experience, Congress has always had a deep and hands-on role with whistleblower complaints against the institutions and the agencies that comprise the Executive Administration. I have not ever seen a - an objection along the lines of this one.
CUOMO: Congress ain't the FBI. But in what we saw in that hearing today, if they're going to have potential witnesses say "Well the President claims his immunity, his privilege over me," even if they didn't work in the White House, as preposterous as a claim that is to me, as a lawyer--
MCCABE: Sure.
CUOMO: --and there's no law on case that would ever extend it that way--
MCCABE: Of course. CUOMO: --the litigation will hold this up for a long time. Is what you saw today proof that Congress cannot get this done?
MCCABE: Well, you know, I think what we saw today was proof that it's politics, not the investigation, not the findings of fact that the Mueller report laid out in detail across 400-plus pages.
It's the politics around the issue that will determine what the American people ultimately find out. And I think that that's a crime.
[21:45:00] That report is, as you know, I'm sure you read it. I've read it several times. And most people will not. It's a 400-page dense and kind of hard product to - to get through. But there is a lot of information in there.
And I think it is absolutely incumbent upon Congress to try to communicate the results of that report to the American people. If what we saw today was any indication of how that's going to take place, I don't think there's much hope of that happening quickly or effectively.
CUOMO: Andrew McCabe, thank you very much.
MCCABE: Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: It's good to have you here.
MCCABE: Appreciate it.
CUOMO: Good luck going forward.
MCCABE: Thank you, Man.
CUOMO: All right? I appreciate it.
Sean Spicer, he knows how to spin, but doesn't translate onto the dance floor.
He should win a trophy though for perfectly following the footsteps of someone he used to work for. Just drink all that in though, huh, just the outfit, he should have kept his partner in front of him the whole time.
The Argument, next.
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CUOMO: He's good on the bongos. I'll give him that. Now usually, Dancing with the Stars is about well Dancing and Stars.
[21:50:00] Sean Spicer tested both aspects. He really isn't a star by any definition. And what he was doing out there was described by a judge as getting attacked by wasps.
Now, I would likely give Spicey an "Attaboy" for effort, and even "A- plus" for creativity for dancing to Spice Up Your Life, that's the song, if it weren't for his final pirouette into absurdity.
You see President Trump's former Press Secretary/Propagandist-in-Chief turned Lime Limbo Wannabe then made his mediocrity about the man with all the moves, God.
"Clearly the judges aren't going to be with me. Let's send a message to Hollywood that those of us who stand for Christ won't be discounted. May God bless you."
Now, I would not call out asking for Trump folk to vote for him. I'm sure they're plenty watching. And his connection to the man who uses fancy footwork around the truth could be a boost.
But really, what he was doing here is just a dance of division, and it falls flat on its face when we foxtrot with the facts.
First, the idea that being Christian is something that America would vote against flies in the face of the overwhelming majority of this country identifying as Christian.
More specifically, is Lime Spice more Christian than any of these folks? They are all plenty churched up and fared plenty well.
But, hey, Sean Spicer has never been one to let facts get in the way of a good story.
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SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was the largest audience to ever witness an Inauguration. Period!
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CUOMO: Mm-hmm? Odd he didn't find a way to spin his anemic score as he did that crowd size. Certainly, he could have found something other than the Almighty to explain his expected shortfall, like he did with the President's ridiculous claim about voter fraud. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPICER: I think there's been studies. There was one that came out of Pew in 2008 that showed 14 percent of - of people who have voted were non-citizens.
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CUOMO: You remember this when he was trying to bolster this President's arguments about a Brown Menace over-running America? He was just plain wrong.
He was probably talking about a study from 2012 that looked at outdated voter rolls, not illegal votes. In other words, it was a study about poor record-keeping. It made no mention of undocumented people voting or trying to register to vote.
Like his salsa last night, the statement lacked originality. He was once again following in the dance steps of the Master, explaining his own failings with faith.
Remember this?
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TRUMP: I'm always audited by the IRS, which I think is very unfair. I don't know maybe because of religion, maybe because of something else, maybe because I'm doing this, although this is just recently.
CUOMO: What do you mean religion?
TRUMP: Well maybe because of the fact that I'm a strong Christian, and I feel strongly about it, and maybe there's a bias. You see what--
CUOMO: You think you being - get audited for being a strong Christian?
TRUMP: Well you see - you see what's happened. I mean you have many religious groups that are complaining about that. They've been complaining about it for a long time.
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CUOMO: We don't even know if this President is being audited.
But we know he doesn't want to own what is in his taxes. And we know the interest in those taxes has nothing to do with his faith, but with our own, our abiding faith that transparency and the facts matter.
Similarly, Sean Spicer is a victim, not of his faith, but of his feet, but both were right to play to paranoia.
70 percent of Republicans have said they think Christians suffer prejudice. But while that may explain Spicer and his former dance partner's play, another explains why it should not be believed. Only 34 percent of Americans think Trump is honest and trustworthy. That means two out of three of you don't. Some advice for our Frilly Friend, this show, like politics, is
supposed to be about bringing people together, dancing, not division. As your former boss is learning, a big tent is about being inclusive, not giving people a reason to feel excluded.
Focus more on your feet, and your fashion, and leave matters of faith to your own prayers that the judges have a soft spot for that toothy grin.
All right, there is a new milestone for the Trump White House, Senate Republicans, and one of the most crucial parts of their legacy that I'm betting you haven't even noticed.
BOLO, Be On the Look-Out. For what? Next.
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CUOMO: BOLO Time! Be On the Look-Out.
The White House last week cheered as the number of confirmed judges on its watch crossed the 150-mark.
President Obama couldn't clear a 100 in the same amount of time. And both Presidents, of course, can thank Senator Mitch McConnell, slowing Obama-nominees way down, especially in the final two years of his Presidency.
President George W. Bush, by contrast, got more than three times the number through, in the same amount of time, despite Democrats controlling the Senate then.
And then, there are the demographics, the faces of Trump's bench versus Obama's. So far, the Trump Administration is putting barely half the percentage of women up for the nomination.
This is all about older White men. They make up nearly four out of five of the picks these days. All are staunch Conservatives, and some woefully lack the acumen we would expect.
Not older men. They're younger men which means they're going to be there for a long time. So, their impact can last a generation. That's the point.
A lot of law is made in the lower courts, so a lot of these issues that you care about, whether it's reproductive rights, whether it's due process, the idea that it all gets decided at the Supreme Court is not always the case.
And these judges are going all across the country. So, Be On the Look- Out.
Thanks for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts right now.
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