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Cuomo Prime Time
CDC Director Warns Possible Second Wave Of Coronavirus This Winter May Be Deadlier; Trump: Testing "Good In Some Cases... Some Cases It's Not"; New Study On Trump's COVID "Game-Changer". Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired April 21, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Skylar, and Ruben, and Vitalina, three lives being mourned tonight.
The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Anderson, thank you so much for reminding people about the human cost of this situation.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
The Head of the CDC has everyone repeating his warning tonight. There likely could be another COVID wave, this winter, and it may be worse. Why are people debating the validity of this?
The only reasonable question is how do we prepare right now? The push is to reopen. Look, it makes sense. We all want more normal. But we know now what may be coming. The CDC Head is not the first to say it. So, everyone knows.
Tonight, let's push the question of whether we are dropping the hammer on prepping for what we know is likely to come. And if not, why not, and what must we start doing?
We have players, on the medical and political side, to test on this. The key remains, together as ever as one. We have to push, as one, for solutions to protect our families and our fates.
So, what do you say? Let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CUOMO: Why did Robert Redfield, the CDC Head say something so scary? Precedent with viruses like this, projections about what we see happening in and around this country right now.
And as for it being maybe more dire, the obvious reason will be the flu and COVID hitting us simultaneously. So first, if you can, please get the flu vaccine, when available, if it works for you, physically. Obviously, you check with your doctor.
Hopefully, you have the availability. If not, alert the media. This is what the CDC wants. Why?
God forbid, anyone try to take on the flu and COVID at the same time. The fewer flu cases, obviously the more capacity to deal with COVID, and there likely won't be a vaccine for Coronavirus, so let's do what we can.
Now, that's the easy part of preparing. Testing, tracing, treatment, these are not just buzzwords for the media and politicians. They are the line between us hiding at home or living some type of normal.
Next question, does the President get the urgency? You tell me.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If they do come back, and they could come back together with heavy on the flu and much lighter on, because I really believe we'll be able to put out the fires, you know, it's like fires. And we've learned a lot, you know, we've become very good at this.
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CUOMO: By what measure?
We're making almost nothing that we need, here in the United States despite the promise to bring back manufacturing, as the key to making America great. We are facing this great challenge. We are not making what we need. And we almost have no plans to do differently.
States keep saying, they can't handle this alone. 44,000 have lost their lives to this. That number is climbing. When will we get that if tracing happens, it can't be a "Maybe." It has to be a "Must."
Again, this will be on the President.
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TRUMP: Testing is good in some cases. And, in some cases, it's not. You have governors that don't want to go all out in the testing because they think they can do it in a different manner and do it better.
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CUOMO: Name one governor who says "Testing, meh, sometimes, sometimes not." How can testing, knowledge, identification of your problem, not be good?
Now look, this isn't about playing Gotcha with the President. There is no time for this. It's about making smart moves. And they will start or be frustrated by this President. How do we keep our families safe? The President says "We got this, testing, not always what governors think." Really?
Let's bring in the Governor of New Jersey. His State, he says, can't consider reopening until their testing capacity is doubled, OK? Why the urgency for him? New Jersey just saw its worst single-day jump in deaths. The Governor joins us now, Phil Murphy.
Governor, I'm sorry to meet you on a day where you have this type of sober reality. But thank you for taking the time.
GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Honored to be with you, Chris, and very happy you're doing better.
CUOMO: I am one of the lucky ones. My family is blessed. You're dealing with families all the time that are up against it for a variety of reasons. Now, the CDC drops this big headline. It is not news to you. You have been hearing that there may be another wave--
MURPHY: No.
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CUOMO: --when it gets cold, when we're back in packed classrooms, and work. Do you believe that you are where you need to be for what might come in the fall?
MURPHY: I'd say, categorically no, Chris. We're neither there yet, in terms of breaking the back of the virus, which is why if you're in New Jersey, and watching, please continue to stay home. We've made a lot of progress, but we're not there yet.
Secondly, as you rightfully suggest, we need a much more robust national infrastructure and help in New Jersey on testing, contact tracing, isolation plans, for when we do get there, and we want to have that confidence to reopen.
And then, thirdly, as you rightfully point out, if you look at H1N1, if you look at Dr. Redfield's comments today, the Spanish Influenza, they've all got the characteristics of coming back at us again in that next season.
In fact, today, I toured a new Field Medical Station in Atlantic City. We may need that in the next few weeks.
But frankly, it's there, in case we need it six or nine months from now. I don't want to go into this again with one arm tied behind our back in terms of bed capacity, PPE, ventilators, et cetera.
So, we're not there yet. But we've got to, listen, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
CUOMO: Right. Now, just to clear something up, are you one of these governors who told the President "Testing, ah sometimes, I think I might have a better way?"
MURPHY: No. I'm not one of those governors. We've cobbled together--
CUOMO: Have you ever heard anybody say that?
MURPHY: I have not. I have not.
And we've got the fourth most tests of any American state, so we've come a long way, but we're not remotely where we need to be. And the other piece of this Chris, as you know, it's not just the amount of tests, but how quickly do you hear back.
It can't be if - if we really have - want to have that confidence to reopen society, and the economy, and going to restaurants, and - and have some sort of a new normal, you got to find this out quickly. And so, it's not just numbers of tests. It's turnaround.
CUOMO: Now, I want to take two steps down the road of hard choices. Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, the governors are working in concert. They want to open up marinas, parks. You are part of the cooperation, but you are not opening up your marinas. Why?
MURPHY: Our marinas actually were - were status quo with our marinas. If you're a private-use citizen, you're OK. We just - we've eliminated any commercial. You can't charter. You can't rent. The restaurants and bars can't be open other than for take-out.
Parks are a trickier one, and that's one where - which gave us no joy to close them down.
But with the warm weather coming, we saw too much congregation, including out-of-state license plates, so we just can't have that. So, we've closed our parks. I hope someday, sooner than later, we can reopen them, but we got to be very careful.
CUOMO: What about golf courses?
MURPHY: Still not open. I know - I know New York has made a move in that direction. We may, at some point, down the road. But we got to still be - listen, I hate to be Dr. Know here but - and we've made an enormous amount of progress.
But we've got to continue to stay home and stay away from each other. That's the only hope. We haven't plateaued yet. We still have to get to the top and then come down the other side. And the only way we do that is if we keep the social distancing we're doing.
CUOMO: Now, interesting insight, for the audience. So, here you have Governor Murphy. He's got Lamont in Connecticut and he's got Cuomo in New York. They're being aggressive about reopening things.
Murphy's going to pay a political price, right? Wrong! Look at the poll numbers that just came out from Monmouth. We see this in - happening in states all over the place.
If you believe the man or woman in charge is being straight with you, you reward their efforts. Murphy's numbers just popped. He's in the 70s, and not just with your own Party, just to be, you know, just to be clear.
70 percent approvals, we're seeing with many different governors, but you see Democrats moving up, Independents moving up, I think even with Republicans, Phil Murphy, I think you're at like 45 percent, which might as well be like a 160 percent for you in this day.
MURPHY: Yes, listen. Here's - here's a couple of things that jumped out at me. I don't run things based on polling. I never have and I never will. We're trying to save lives, and you know that. But a couple of things jumped out at me.
Number one, overwhelmingly, folks don't feel like they've got the confidence yet to get back into the regular swing of things.
So, it's not - I think we totally undervalue and underestimate the raw intelligence of folks, who just look at this, and say, "Listen, please give us the confidence that we need. We don't have that confidence yet."
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Secondly, there was a question they asked, "Do you think we've gone too far or not far enough?"
And for all the noise around these folks, who are protesting, over two times as many people said "We had not gone far enough" and said that we had gone too far, which really jumped out at me.
CUOMO: So, when you start looking at where we are right now, I've been asking these questions the last couple of days because we're five weeks in basically, right, tracing that case, we are still not making the things that we need here.
You guys are still playing the supply-chain game. And I know you had good meetings with the White House about figuring out how to streamline that that you guys have been asking for, literally for months.
But does it bother you that we haven't found ways, with the history we have with World War II, and how we came together in desperate times, that we really aren't doing any of that, except for maybe one company that's making swabs?
MURPHY: It bothers me deeply. I mean I've been on the phone for six or eight weeks, if not longer, on both knees, begging folks from other countries to either sell us or give us personal protective equipment or ventilators.
We're the United States of America, I really believe, with all my heart, the greatest nation on the face of the Earth. We got to make this stuff ourselves.
The fact that we have to go outside of our country to get it is completely galling. And this should be a national wake-up call, not just in New Jersey, but around our country, to never live through this again. CUOMO: Well it's all going to be about preparation.
All the experts say if we can handle this wave that comes, which obviously will come at a horrible time, right Governor, because we'll be - people just starting to flex the muscles of getting back to normal, then that will be the measure of how it looks for us for the next year.
So, as always, Governor, we are here to be a platform for you to make the case to your citizens, as well as the people in the country, about what's happening, what you need, what's the reality on the ground.
Governor, best of health to you, and best of luck to the State.
MURPHY: Thank you Chris so much. And again, same to you.
CUOMO: All right, God bless, take care.
All right, now, you know that this supposed Coronavirus cure called hydrochloroquine or deoxy-hydrochloroquine, the President had been hyping it. He'd been hearing great things. He's a big fan, he said.
It sent people flying out to get it, couldn't find it, anti-malarial drug, also used for lupus sometimes. He called it a potential game- changer, OK? And then it faded away.
What is the proof? Now, studies have been done. What do you have to lose? Is that still a sand - a standard supported by science? There's a new study, there's no information, Dr. Sanjay Gupta will explain next.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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TRUMP: I just hope that hydroxychloroquine wins.
What do you have to lose? I'll say it again: What do you have to lose? Take it.
If this drug works, it will be not a game-changer, because that's not a nice enough term, it will be wonderful. It'll be so beautiful. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: It's a big "If."
You know, it makes me wonder if the President was telling his personal friends the same thing, because I know there are a lot of people around him, who were saying, "Be careful with this drug that there are unintended consequences for people that there are interactions you got to be careful about."
But he never said any of that. So, people ran out, anecdotes spread, "You got to get the hydrochloroquine." I had people telling me that all the time, so much so that the stuff became tough to find.
Now the question is I know it faded, why? What does science say? Study after study, including a new one from the VA's medical centers, are showing that hydroxychloroquine is not a miracle drug.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us right now.
I want to go through the study. But let's start with the headline, but let's reverse it, Sanjay. I am not wowed by what the CDC Director said. I believe you've heard this many times. I believe you've shared this several times.
And I believe the real story should be everybody knows, Sanjay, what's going to come in the fall. And if we don't prepare now, we will not be able to prepare then. Your take?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think we've been looking at this as a very short-term proposition. Maybe that's the way human beings are wired. It's harder for us to look off into the distance.
But we've been saying it all along, Chris. You and I've had conversations about this. The virus isn't going anywhere. It's a contagious virus. It is spreading from person to person. It is a fairly lethal virus. And, you know, until there's a vaccine, it's going to continue to be around.
The reason we've had progress is because we're doing something that's unprecedented in this - in this country, in the world really, for - for so many people to be staying at home, it's made a difference.
The problem is that once we stop doing that, the virus is still out there in the community. So, when Dr. Redfield talks about a second wave, he has said this before, many people have said this before, couple points though.
One is, if we could look at this graphic, I want to show you something, going back a 100 years, to 1918, and the Spanish Flu, and looking at what happened then.
That first peak, that was the spring of 1918, March 1918, relatively small peak. Chris, the second peak there, the second wave, it's the biggest one. There are actually three waves. Part of the issue then, part of the issue now, is that it coincides
with the flu season. And flu is a bad problem. I mean we've talked about that since the beginning. You get them compounded, one on the other, and that can create a big problem.
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We've got to be ready. We've got to be vigilant. We're probably going to have to stay at home again, you know, during that time period, because it makes a difference, not only for Coronavirus, but also for flu. It can make a significant difference here.
But all the ventilators that your brother was talking about, in New York, and other people around the country, you know, we may still, you know, we likely are going to still need those ventilators, maybe not right now, but we will still need those ventilators.
So, you know, where - this is going to be a little bit of a long haul. But we can absolutely get through it because I think we're - we understand it better as long as we act on that understanding, yes.
CUOMO: Yes. That's the key part is what you just said.
If you drop the hammer, and up production, and I believe you have to start making it here in the United States because we're not the only ones who are going to get hit. Everybody along that equatorial line--
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: --that we're on, around the world, is going to get hit, that shares a season and the supply chain will be strained once again. And if we're not making it here, and dedicating it to our own needs, won't that be a problem?
GUPTA: Yes, no question. I mean everybody on the planet wants the same thing. I mean that is the nature of a pandemic. Most of us, thankfully, have never experienced something like this before. But that is - that is the nature of it.
So, we - we know now. And there was some - there were some places that we got caught short with regard to testing, with regard to personal protective equipment. We know that. We've talked about it a lot.
But we have a chance to sort of make sure that that doesn't happen to us again. I show the graph of the Spanish Flu not to alarm people, but to prepare people. I mean we know.
I mean I've been really, you know, encouraged by the stay-at-home order impacts. I mean not only has Coronavirus gone down, but flu is probably fewer numbers now, this year, as compared to years past, because of the stay-at-home as well.
I don't enjoy it. I know you don't enjoy it. You were stuck in your basement, poor guy, for a while. But that - this is - this is something that works and we're probably going to need to do again.
Maybe it's not constant. Maybe we have to do it intermittently. But we are going to be at this, for a little bit, Chris.
CUOMO: Your Governor, where you live, in Georgia, at the beginning of the month, might have been even April 1st actually, no coincidence with April Fool's Day, he said, "Hey, I just learned that turns out you can be contagious if you're asymptomatic," which my 10-year- old knew, two months ago.
He went from that, to now, a few weeks later, he says, "We got this. We're ready to reopen."
Is anything changing there to help boost your confidence of what's about to come in 72 hours?
GUPTA: No, Chris. And I don't want to equivocate or waffle on this. I mean we closed late. We might be opening early. And - and they're both problems.
I mean we are clear that the virus is still out there. We are clear that we are not ready. It is clear what the guidelines are, and that we haven't met them. And it's also clear that a lot of people, Chris, are frightened about this. They're frightened to go out.
So, you open up businesses, but people are not likely to go. "Is that doorknob safe? Did that person get tested? Has this place been sterilized? What about the ventilation?"
I mean all these questions still coming up among people because people are, you know, they're understandably worried. People are worried that "Look, even if I stay healthy, what if I take it and get somebody else sick? I would feel awful about that. I'd feel terrible if that happened."
That's the sort of decisions that are being forced right now in the State. And, you know, I just find it hard to be charitable about this. I understand the Governor has pressure on him from small businesses, although who's going to be going to these small businesses?
This is a proposition where you're starting to run into almost all risk and almost no reward. It's a bad idea. Every public health official in the country has said so.
Ambassador Birx, who's very polite, you and I both talk to her, she said this. She says "We've put out guidelines. We've tried to use the clearest data possible. There are still outbreaks happening.
I don't see how you could cut somebody's hair or be in a nail salon and still physically distance. Maybe they have some creative ideas I'm not familiar with," is essentially what she said.
She's being nice. What she should have said is you shouldn't do this, can't do this. These are guidelines, I get it. You can't mandate these things. But, you know, people could get infected that otherwise wouldn't. People may be hospitalized that otherwise wouldn't. And, sadly Chris, people may die that otherwise wouldn't.
And I'm not an alarmist, as you know. But - but that's the reality. Mother Nature is - is showing us something right now. We have to behave, as if we have the virus, so we don't get sick, and we don't get other people sick.
CUOMO: And look, we have to say. You know who hasn't said anything about Georgia reopening, in terms of exercising caution, is the President. This is about politics. It is persuasive.
People want to reopen, Sanjay. You hear it in your house. I hear it in mine. I love the thought of it. I can't wait. It makes you want to take risk because man, are we sick of it? But now it goes to "Well what's your alternative?"
Let's turn to the study on that. Hydro - you know, the President was saying, "You know, I'm a big fan of hydroxychloroquine," you know, chloroquine, another variety of the basket of the drug, "Take it. What's the worst thing?"
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So, I asked you on a regular basis that I wanted to take it. And you kept saying to me, "No, no, no, man. You're having a depressed immune response. This is a drug for inflammation based off hyper immune response. Be careful. It's not for you. We got to wait for the studies."
What have the studies told us?
GUPTA: Well the studies have not been encouraging, Chris.
I mean these are small studies. And, you know, we need the big study, frankly, out of your brother's State, because they got 10,000 doses, and those were part of a clinical trial, and that data we want to look at.
But we've heard now from Brazil. We've heard now from France. We've heard now from Sweden. All those places have basically said "Potential toxicity, we're not - we're recommending hospitals don't administer this anymore."
And now the study from the VA, here in the United States, still a small study, non-randomized, non-peer reviewed.
And that's important to say because we need - whenever we talk about this, we want to - whether it's good or bad, and everybody wants something good. But whether it's good or bad--
CUOMO: Yes.
GUPTA: --we should be - we should be very clear about what we're talking about here. So, this needs to be reviewed more carefully.
But some 368 patients in this study, you had the people who just got the hydroxychloroquine, 97 of them, they had a fatality rate, Chris, of 22 percent.
The people who got the - those are the people who got the Azithromycin and the - and the hydroxychloroquine, people who just got the hydroxychloroquine had a fatality rate closer to 27 percent, and that was compared to people who got neither, whose death rate was 11 percent.
Now, again, I reiterate, small study, but the evidence has not been compelling, OK, three countries now basically saying "Don't give it," this study, out of the VA, here in this country.
I would love to see a positive study on this medication or another one because that would be significant, as we talk about the waves and the second waves and what's going to happen this fall.
We're not there yet. We will get there. And there will be some good data that clarifies this, gives us some conclusions on some of these medications.
And hopefully, one of those conclusions will be this one works, it doesn't cause unnecessary side effects, and it's going to help us get out of this mess. We're not - we're just not there yet.
CUOMO: And until we have that, we better be damn sure we can test, trace, and treat. And if we can't do that, and just to be clear--
GUPTA: Yes, right.
CUOMO: --I know, Sanjay, you agree with me, nobody's saying testing is only good sometimes, that it's a maybe, and sometimes there's a better way. You've got to test to know what you have, and we better be ready.
Sanjay Gupta, as always, thank you for giving the audience what it needs to hear and thank you for being my friend.
GUPTA: You got it, buddy. Glad you're feeling better.
CUOMO: Thank you.
All right, Georgia, that's where Sanjay lives. Obviously, that's the State in question because in 72 hours, they're going to open up. We're going to go there live because this experiment is going to be watched by this nation. In 72 hours, they're going to reopen many businesses there again.
Is the Mayor of a City, near Atlanta, ready to confront the potential consequences? Let's talk to them, next.
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CUOMO: All right, look, as we all know, no matter where you live, the response to this pandemic is crushing the economy.
People like the idea of reopening. Why? Because our lives are being stifled. We want to get our jobs back, if we've lost them. We want to run our businesses. We want to get our lives going again.
But polls also show that people do not like the idea of reopening if the trade-off is maybe being exposed to the virus, all right? A strong majority says "Do not do this if you can't do it right."
So, why the rush to reopen in Georgia, for context, a State that was late to the game, the curve there is not as flat as it is in other states that are being more cautious. Let's discuss it with a player.
Rusty Paul is the Mayor of Sandy Springs, which is just outside Atlanta.
Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us on PRIME TIME.
MAYOR RUSTY PAUL, (R) SANDY SPRINGS, GEORGIA: Chris, thank you for having me.
CUOMO: So, you look good. You don't look like you need a haircut. But are you going to run out when the haircut place is reopened, or you're thinking about maybe a tattoo to mark the situation you've lived through, are you going to get back out there as soon as you can?
PAUL: I've invested in a second cut, so I'm fine.
No, you know, we've got to be very cautious about how we do this. I'm - we're still waiting on a little bit of guidance from the State, to know how we're going to enforce all the - the different things that are going to be required.
But we're going to implement it as safely and as conscientiously as we possibly can in Sandy Springs, and health and safety of our citizens is going to be paramount. A lot of businesses have been open through this. We've done the social distancing thing.
I've had to stand in line, outside grocery stores, wearing my mask, wearing my gloves, as we waited to get in, and they allowed only so many people in a grocery store.
So, if we do it right, and - and we maintain the social distancing, you know, we can have an impact. Now, you know, is - should everything be open? I don't know. But I can tell you this.
The market is going to determine whether this works or not because if customers don't show up, you can open your business all day long, and nobody's going to be there.
CUOMO: Right.
PAUL: And so, it's - it's going to - we're going to find out what the level of trust that the public have in - in this process.
But I can tell you, I've seen it in our community. And as long as people follow the rules, and as long as the retailers sanitize the counters, and everything, we've been able to manage it and control it so far.
CUOMO: Right, except that you've been careful about which businesses to do, and it's been limited exposure, so it's about scale obviously.
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And what do you make of the concern/criticism that "Georgia was late to the game. The curve's not as flat as it could be. This Governor went from," Governor Kemp, who was invited on the show, and he always is, at the beginning of the state said, "Hey, it turns out, you could be contagious even if you're asymptomatic," to now, just a few weeks later saying you're ready to reopen that it - that there is not the kind of planning, there is not the kind of basis to pull this off, in a way that won't be dangerous.
PAUL: You know, we - I know what I'm responsible for. And that is to make sure that we do this right, we do it safely, we do it conscientiously.
I know the Governor. He's a friend of mine. You know, I talked to him about two weeks ago, one-on-one conversation. I know where his heart is. You know, when you're a mayor, and you're a governor, these problems have faces.
When I shut down, our City, back on March 24th, as I shut down the restaurants, I knew these people. These were people I recruited into my community to bring their businesses there.
And it's a very difficult challenge to - and I went in today. Like you, I've been in quarantine for the last 14 days. I went into my office for the first time in - in 2.5 weeks.
And I had a stack of letters this high that companies required to notify us when they lay people off. There were literally thousands of jobs laying there in that paper of people--
CUOMO: Yes, it's terrible.
PAUL: --who can't - can't - can't pay their bills, and these businesses.
CUOMO: Yes, it's terrible.
PAUL: These are people whose life savings and life work is being sacrificed.
So, if we can figure out this balance, and I think that's what the Governor is trying to do, is let's see if we can find the balance that allows the economy to stay, a lifeline going, while we still continue to protect the people in our communities, and making sure that priority number one is public health, and public safety.
CUOMO: You said you spoke to the Governor a couple of weeks ago. But am I correct that he did not talk to you about this move like he did not talk to the other mayors of even bigger cities like Augusta and Atlanta?
PAUL: If you see - I doubt, seriously, your brother calls every mayor in New York, when he makes a decision either. So, you know, he consulted to people--
CUOMO: Well I don't know about something like this. You know, this is a pretty big move because he also said "You can't undo it. You can't even change it," from what he makes it.
So, you know, he's - he's putting a big thumbprint on this. You'd think you'd talk to the people in charge of the localities, no?
PAUL: Well when we started this process, one of the challenges we had, my City had one set of rules, the next-door city had a different set of rules, and we were trying to manage this all on the local basis, and the Governor was giving us a lot of flexibility to try and manage it on a local basis.
CUOMO: Right.
PAUL: But what we've come to realize was that there were so many - there's such a patchwork of requirements that we needed this kind of statewide step. And once we convinced him that we did need that, he stepped in.
I don't know that Georgia was late. There was a lot of stuff going on at the local level with mayors, and County Commissioners, trying to manage it, and - and we had that--
CUOMO: Statewide.
PAUL: --firsthand (ph). That's what we - always want (ph).
CUOMO: Right.
PAUL: We want that local control.
CUOMO: Right.
PAUL: And he was giving it to us. And then we said, OK.
CUOMO: Right. He just--
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CUOMO: He just didn't give us in and out (ph).
PAUL: Yes, that's true. CUOMO: Yes. Now, he had uniform standards. But his standard is to reopen. And you don't have a say in it. But look, the voters will decide that kind of question.
Here's my one concern for you. You are a 100 percent right that the pain is personal. Anybody who's watching reality around them knows that.
My concern is you make this move, it's a political risk of course, but you're not going to know the reality for several weeks because it takes time for people to be exposed, to get sick, to be hospitalized.
And if the numbers jump a few weeks from now, are you worried about what that looks like for your community and you?
PAUL: I'm always worried about it. But let me go back to the original aspect of your question, the politics.
I hope to goodness, nobody's allowing political decisions to drive this process. If it's not being driven by science, and good solid information, then the politics don't work. Good politics is good policy. If you have the right policy, the politics will work out.
CUOMO: Absolutely understood, Mr. Mayor.
And look, I'd be happy to review any kind of plan the Governor had that shows that he has the testing things. He's figured out ways to do it. It's just not in there. That's why it raises the concern about what will happen when it happens.
And obviously, we want people to be healthy. We want them to get back to work, and to do so, in a healthy way. And you know people are concerned about both. We'll see how this goes.
The nation is watching, Mr. Mayor. I wish you well. I hope you are in good health.
PAUL: Thank you.
CUOMO: And we are here--
PAUL: Thank you.
CUOMO: --as an open forum for you to discuss how this goes.
[21:40:00]
PAUL: Well I appreciate you allowing me this opportunity. And once it's all over, I hope all your visitors - all your viewers come to visit Sandy Springs.
CUOMO: I - look, I can't wait to meet you in person. We'll figure out how we're saying hello to each other when that happens. But thank God, you've recovered. I'm glad you're healthy. Take care, Mr. Mayor.
PAUL: Thank you. Thank you. CUOMO: All right.
Look, it's a dicey proposition, people want to reopen. That's not a surprise. That's how it is in my house and in your house. How do you do it? People are worried. It's a tough balance. But that's why you run for Office. Either you want to lead or you don't. Nobody said it was going to be easy.
Now, in terms of dealing with COVID, it's not going to be easy. There is no miracle drug. But you know where the miracles are? In you, in the people in the communities, happening all over the country. Listen to this story.
A mom-to-be OK, diagnosed with Coronavirus, 26 weeks into her pregnancy, imagine, that's just the beginning.
Then, while she has Coronavirus, and is in an induced coma, because it's such an extreme case, guess what she has to do? Give birth to the baby. Yes, the baby born OK, I'm not going to hide the headline on a story like this.
How the baby came through, and what's the baby doing right now, how the mom is? This is an incredible story of someone overcoming, but people coming together as well. What a story! What a Mom! Next.
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[21:45:00]
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CUOMO: All right, you've probably heard this before. But people from Brooklyn are tough. But this story, I got to tell you, I've never heard another one like it.
Johana Mendoza Chancay, now, you're going to hear this name, and the story attached to it hopefully will stay with you.
So, she's pregnant, tests positive for Coronavirus, late last month, rushed to the hospital, winds up on a ventilator, why? Obviously, she had respiratory issues. Doctors had to act fast to save her and the baby.
So, listen to this, imagine this, if you're in the baby game, if you have a family. She's pregnant. They place her in a coma, and then perform an
emergency C-section, you know, very premature, and God bless good news, the baby girl is born, just over one pound. Zion is her name.
Isn't that great? Talk about the need for a Promised Land!
Born on April 1st, but no joke, 26 weeks premature, her mom, Johana, is now out of the hospital, and able to join us.
What a blessing! Thank God you are well. And we know that the baby is fighting her way to better health. How are you doing?
JOHANA MENDOZA CHANCAY, GAVE BIRTH WHILE HOSPITALIZED WITH COVID-19: Taking it day-by-day, baby steps. Baby steps.
CUOMO: Can you believe what you've been through?
CHANCAY: Still processing it actually. I'm blessed to have a wonderful family that is surrounding me now. Yes.
CUOMO: Well you got a lot of friends.
CHANCAY: Just few more (ph) to be.
CUOMO: You got a lot of people who care about you.
Transparency, transparency. Good friend of mine, Caitlin (ph) said, you got to hear this story, how people came together to help you, and the help that you need now, and I was just blown away. So, people care about you.
CHANCAY: Forgive me if I get emotional.
CUOMO: Oh, listen.
CHANCAY: Forgive me if I get emotional. It's been, you know--
CUOMO: If you can't get emotional about this, why even be alive? You are alive. The baby is good.
CHANCAY: Yes.
CUOMO: People love you. And better days are ahead. So, tell us this.
CHANCAY: Thanks.
CUOMO: The crying part's over. Thank God the baby is here. And she's doing well. And you know you have people--
CHANCAY: Thanks.
CUOMO: --who have their arms around you in every possible way that they can, except actually touching you, because we're at a stay-home order. So, tell me this. Let me lighten your mood a little bit. When you found out that you're pregnant--
CHANCAY: Yes.
CUOMO: --and you have the virus, what was your reaction?
CHANCAY: Honestly, I wasn't - I wasn't so scared because, at the time, they weren't saying that it's affecting pregnant ladies as much, you know, they was just more like elderly, and - and all that.
So, I thought I was going to, you know, like have kind of like a flu type of thing. So, I pretty much self-quarantined for like a week, and that's when I just couldn't take it anymore.
Half way through the kind of the quarantine, I was like, "Wait, this is really - this is really affecting me." That's the honest truth - because they really - and I understand people don't have much information about it, so you can't really go by much, but I just know I felt sick and I was really just trying to take care of myself. And really, really--
CUOMO: So, when you've decided you have to go into the hospital--
CHANCAY: Mm-hmm?
CUOMO: --so when you decided you have to go into the hospital, how do they explain to you, or did they explain to you, "Listen, we're going to have to put you in a coma, and we're going to have to deliver the baby this early," like how much of that were you aware of and, you know, help us with that.
[21:50:00]
CHANCAY: Right away when I went, pretty much that day, I went to the hospital, it was explained - it was explained to me because they had to intubate me, they had to put the tubes in.
So, pretty much, it was told to me right away. And that's when I called my family, and I told them - and I told them, "Hey, I'm going under," and that was the last that they heard of me. So, it happened really quickly.
I was freaking out, of course, when the doctor told me that. And that's - that's all. And then, after that, I was pretty much in an induced coma and, you know, holding on.
CUOMO: So, what is it like--
CHANCAY: Yes.
CUOMO: --to wake up, and have a baby, when you were not expecting it to go that way, and obviously all the built-in concerns about how early it was? What was it like? What do you remember about coming to?
CHANCAY: What I remember coming to was just thinking, "Where's my baby? Where's my baby?" They did show me a webcam of the baby when I did come to.
But that's all I remember thinking. I was like, "OK, where's my baby?" because it just feels weird, you know. One day - one minute you're pregnant, and then you wake up, and you're not. I was like, "Oh, my God, what's going on?"
So, it takes a while to kind of, like, grasp things, you know? And the nurses were nice enough to show me the baby through the webcam, and actually also a video of my nephew to uplift my spirits while I was in the hospital.
CUOMO: Well the baby just to--
CHANCAY: So, that's - that's I remember it.
CUOMO: Just to let people know how she is, she was born just over a pound, right? A pound and like the 12 or 13 ounces, or something like that, 26 weeks early.
CHANCAY: Right.
CUOMO: But no COVID. She's in there now. But she's - she's making progress. You are home.
CHANCAY: She's making progress.
CUOMO: But you have some lung issues.
CHANCAY: I'm home with the family.
CUOMO: So, you're dealing - you're dealing with a big - a big recovery plan now, right?
CHANCAY: I'm dealing with a huge recovery plan, takes me a bit to do things because of my lung, my heart.
My C-section is not an ordinary C-section. I have like a big wound there that has to be taken care of, which actually I'm so blessed that no one - no one will see me.
It's just a bunch of like, you know, insurance issues and because I am taking care of - in Connecticut where my - where I have family. I can't be in Brooklyn right now or, like - or anywhere near congestion.
CUOMO: Right.
CHANCAY: I'm fragile right now, you know, as my baby is.
CUOMO: Right.
CHANCAY: So - so we're just coming--
CUOMO: Can you see the baby? Are you allowed to visit with her now?
CHANCAY: No, not at all, not at all. The baby and I will pretty much be reunited on her due date, which is July 8th.
CUOMO: How are you dealing with that? CHANCAY: With, you know, dealing with, like, my C-section opening, my physical therapy. I mean, I can at least sit up, right? That's good. But I've noticed it's, you know, there's post-partum.
There's like trying to like understand like I am a mom. She's just not here, you know? It's just so much emotions. I just can't put it into words. It's just so much emotions, yes.
CUOMO: All people have to do is look at you, and imagine what they'd do in your position. Thank God. Look, this is not the road anybody would have chosen, but hopefully Zion keeps getting stronger, and so do you. And it is weird to be sure.
CHANCAY: Thank you.
CUOMO: These are weird days. But it is great to hear about a happy ending. And we very much want to stay in touch. And a big reason I wanted to do this story is I know you're up against it.
I know that this phase hurt you economically, took away your ability to make money right now, and I know your needs are very great. I'm going to put out on my social media, the GoFundMe page that you have for you, and the baby, and the push to kind of give you what you need to reunite.
CHANCAY: Thank you so much.
CUOMO: Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for fighting the way you did--
CHANCAY: Thanks so much.
CUOMO: --against such incredible odds, and letting us know, Johana that we can make it through anything. God bless. And I look forward to the update, OK?
CHANCAY: Thank you so much. Thank you.
CUOMO: Don't cry. You'll make me cry. I'm going to get a fever. I just got over it.
CHANCAY: OK. I'll stop crying.
CUOMO: God bless and be well. Save your strength. We'll check in soon.
CHANCAY: Absolutely.
[21:55:00]
CUOMO: I told you, you ever heard a story like that? Have you ever heard anything like that? Can you imagine being at that point in a pregnancy and having that kind of experience and worrying about the baby, and you can't see the baby?
The GoFundMe page will be on my social media. If you want to help, you can help. I know a lot of you are always asking me, "How do we get involved? Who needs help?" This is one more way, OK? There's a lot in need out there.
So, this is part of the light in this situation. It was dark, but now it's light. Zion is here. And there is light shining out here in all different directions all the time.
The brightest part of the day now in New York City is when it's very close to sunset. This is my favorite part of New York.
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CUOMO: I love it. I love that we are celebrating. Everybody's out there for two reasons. One, we are here. Together, as ever, as one, we're all doing this.
And thank you, healthcare workers. I know you guys say you're just doing the job. But, to us, you are heroes, because you never said that you were going to do it, against these odds, ill-equipped and unprotected, and you're doing the job anyway. You're getting sick. You're going back. Thank God for you. We're happy for you.
So, let's keep the love going, from East Coast to West, next.
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