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Cuomo Prime Time
Atlanta Curfew Begins Now As Demonstrators Remain; George Floyd's Friend Who Was In SUV With Him Speaks Out; Judge: Arbery Murder Suspects To Stand Trial On All Charges. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 04, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Live pictures from Atlanta where the curfew is about to begin, when so many cities that have seen people give into so much pain, but also voice so much hope for a better country.
Today, Atlanta's Mayor met some of those people. She told them, "There is something better on the other side of this."
Chris Cuomo, those are certainly words to lean on 10 days into this. Let's go to Chris right now. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, Anderson, thank you very much.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
I want to take you right back to Atlanta because this is a day where people are trying to remember George Floyd, but this situation is getting very tense.
There is a curfew in Atlanta that has just started, just a few seconds ago. And I can't tell from this crowd how expansive it is, but there's a lot of police presence there. Nick Valencia is on the ground. He will give us a sense of the state of play.
What can you tell us?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Chris, good evening.
We've seen these demonstrators start to fall back a little bit. But they've been in a tense standoff with police, the last 15 minutes. You remember what happened here Friday night? Well a lot of people here, including journalists, are saying it has that same energy.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Let me pan over here. Show you the - the riot gear armed by the Atlanta officers, a large police presence here. And this is different, Chris, in the sense that the police seem to be, not just as much in number, as the demonstrators that are left haggling around.
VALENCIA: I want to point out the scene here, if you could come closer with me, Mike, my photographer, Mike Calloway, that's one of the lieutenants leading the response right there, talking to demonstrators.
VALENCIA (voice-over): He has taken a knee with demonstrators. He has tried to create a dialog.
It was last night when we didn't see any pepper balls or teargas deployed, much in part because, according to this Lieutenant with the Atlanta Police Department, there has been progress in the dialog with the demonstrators.
CUOMO: Hey, Nick?
VALENCIA: They are quick to point out people have come in from out-of- State. Yes, Chris, go ahead.
CUOMO: Nick, good point about the out-of-State and the outside antagonists. That Lieutenant, see if you can get over there, and hear what he's saying to them. Let's see - see if we can get some of the dialog between the two sides.
VALENCIA: Yes, sure.
CUOMO: Don't hurt yourself. Mike, don't hurt yourself, climbing over that thing, but if you can get there.
VALENCIA: I've got it man. I'm at--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't give me the chance, how can I prove that we're not here to help you? OK?
VALENCIA: We're live on CNN now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need you to step over there, please boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers, we got it on camera that he lied to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is any?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, just help her get behind the barrier please.
VALENCIA: So, you see, Chris, this is somebody who was here yesterday. In fact, this woman laid down and was asked to move by police, was nearly arrested yesterday, and is not moving again today.
They're trying to reason with her, and it seems surrounded - surrounding her are other demonstrators, other citizen journalists, and there we go, that situation was resolved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got it.
VALENCIA: OK. So, we're right actually in between the police and the demonstrators. So far, they have not advanced their position. We - thank you very much. We were told that they would use teargas if necessary.
And I want to tell you why things are different tonight. There was an unexpected visit from Atlanta's Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, and she was met with - with really mixed reaction, Chris, a lot of boos, people accusing her of having photo opportunities, not having a standing dialog with the demonstrators.
What they want is police reform. They are here not just because of George Floyd. The leaders of these organizations although - the leaders of these demonstrations, although they are fractured, two of them told me that they are fighting 400 years of injustice. It's not just about one man.
VALENCIA (voice-over): You see here, though, there's a crowd. And sorry about the language here, guys. You know, this is a crowd. This is a live situation.
CUOMO: Don't worry about it, Nick.
VALENCIA (voice-over): When I show what's being transpired.
CUOMO: Go ahead. Keep talking.
VALENCIA (voice-over): I'm trying the best here between Law Enforcement.
CUOMO: Don't worry about it, go ahead.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Trying the best between Law Enforcement and the citizens to try to settle this peacefully. We're now - I'm not sure what time it is here. We're now 2 minutes into the curfew. So far there's still demonstrators in the streets. I'm just going to step away and let this play out in front of me, Chris.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, I will see everybody tomorrow. Please, let's go home safely.
VALENCIA (voice-over): So, Lieutenant Mathew (ph), you hear him. He's asking the people to leave, saying he'll see everyone tomorrow.
CUOMO: Yes. Let's hear what the message is and let's hear what the response is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, that's enough.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black Lives Matter doesn't stop at 9:00 P.M.
VALENCIA: What is it about? Why aren't you leaving when they ask you to obey the curfew? Why won't you obey the curfew?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black Lives Matter does not stop at 9:00 P.M.
VALENCIA: OK. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't ask me a question you don't want me to grab the mic.
VALENCIA: Well, thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could go to jail peacefully. But we will go to jail. It's on you to decide, each and every one of you as individuals. So, you can - you can go or you can stay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understand that is not what we want. What - let me ask you a question? Listen to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The curfew is a violation of our--
VALENCIA (voice-over): These negotiations are still ongoing, Chris. They're playing out right in front of us here.
CUOMO: And the man in the Georgia T-shirt is - did he organize this? Is he with a particular group or is he just speaking to the Lieutenant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to get you out there.
VALENCIA (voice-over): He's just speaking to the Lieutenant right now. We did speak with two others who say they've been here from the beginning, and are part of the demonstrators, the organization that led this. But it's really, you know, it's a - it's a hodgepodge of groups that have come together here.
CUOMO: You know.
VALENCIA (voice-over): You know, we've seen anti-fascists, you know, on Friday night. We saw people that supported President Trump out here, Proud Boys, would look like to me from - judging from their tattoos.
[21:05:00]
A lot of these individuals though, I recognize from my time in - in Atlanta, you know. These are local residents mixed in with people who have admitted to us, one person went as far - come as far as Kentucky to come out here. We asked him about the violence. He says he thinks it's the only way.
And, right before this curfew got underway we did speak to some of the demonstrators that were on the standoff. They said they had no intention of leaving. Right now, you clearly see Law Enforcement trying to peacefully negotiation, as they want to resolve this.
CUOMO: Yes. I want to hear what he's saying to them.
VALENCIA (voice-over): And, you know, the conversation is ongoing.
CUOMO: Let's hear what the negotiation is.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Sure, sure, sure, let's. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow, the next day, yesterday, it's always a fight for us. It's a fight at 8:59, 9 o'clock, and 9:01.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to continue fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, it's 9:05, and nobody's moved--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is - it is - respectfully--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you please tell the truth?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So let us do it peacefully.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --because I hear you. I hear you.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a false report. It's not--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why we need to be live.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That wasn't true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why we need to be live.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. Like - like we were peaceful and you know that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I said--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you did not. You said - you said that we were peaceful like--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well there is a curfew in place here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're not abiding by it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to stop you from doing it, OK? That if each and every one of you--
CUOMO: All right, so Nick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --behind you want to do that.
VALENCIA (voice-over): It's kind of hard to make out, Chris. I'm sorry. CUOMO: No, listen. We get the state of play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm willing to try anything you want.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They didn't even want to be there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that's what you want--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's willing to be arrested peacefully.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --I'm willing to try this.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --they get to decide what they want.
VALENCIA (voice-over): There's a demonstrator next to us who wants to voice his opinion here. Go ahead. What's - what's going on here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so right now, we have one of the protesters that he wants to be arrested peacefully, peacefully at that.
But he wants to stand up against the curfew right now. And we just have the Officer, over here, trying to get him to leave, in peace, because there is no reason to be arrested just to go against the curfew.
VALENCIA: And you took some exception when I said that there was a person from out of town. You wanted to mention - you wanted me to mention that he was White, why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I didn't know he was White. You didn't mention he was White the first time. That's why I asked you if you mind you telling me what race he was.
VALENCIA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He came all the way from Kentucky and said that he thinks the violence is necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us do with peace.
VALENCIA: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His race is White. And it's been proven that there are many people that are instigating that are not for the cause. They (INAUDIBLE) but they're just infiltrating.
CUOMO: Yes.
VALENCIA: What are you for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for the cause. I'm Colombian and proud. CUOMO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Latino and proud. I'm a Georgia resident and citizen since I was a kid. I'm here for the love of humanity and for the love of having everybody have equal treatment regardless of their skin color and regardless of where they're from.
VALENCIA: Thank you so much. Your name? What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daniel Gonzalez (ph).
VALENCIA: Thanks, Daniel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
CUOMO: All right, Nick?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Yes, Chris. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the last time I will say this.
CUOMO: All right, so, Nick, we get it. Look, you know, the curfew creates a very complicated point of tension.
People say, "No, it's not complicated. It's straightforward. This is what it is. This is the law." But it is an interesting point of contrast because the protesters are saying so you only enforce the law and insist on justice when it works for you.
And what I liked about this, at least on one level, is the protesters having a right, under law, to voice their opinion in the way they want. They can be angry. They can blame. They can shame. They can yell.
You know, when people say peaceful, they mean passive. That's always been my point. Nobody wants to see violence. As soon as we start touching each other in a way that's against the will, we make a mockery of the law. Everybody knows that.
But the idea of peaceful protests, peaceful is a code-word for passive, for a lot of people, who want things to stay the way they are. And this is tough because the police have to do the job and enforce the curfew. It is the law.
How they enforce it matters. And it was good to hear that Lieutenant saying "I don't want trouble. I don't want you to get arrested. I don't want to do this, this way. Let's try to make this good for everybody," which is going to be hard. These are difficult times. VALENCIA: And Chris, as you're speaking, they're - as you're speaking, they're giving in - they're going to give another announcement - they are giving another announcement here, over the loudspeakers, of those BearCats saying that you're violation in curfew.
CUOMO: Right.
VALENCIA: We don't know how this is going to evolve. But we're being told to move out of the way here. We're going to stand aside.
CUOMO: All right, so do - do this. Nick?
VALENCIA: It seems as though Law Enforcement might advance.
CUOMO: Stake out a position that is good for you to cover, but not to be in the way. Stay in touch with the Control Room. If there is movement that we need to show, come right back to me, OK? I'm going to keep--
VALENCIA (voice-over): Just a really quick thought before I wrap up, Chris.
CUOMO: Go ahead, Nick.
VALENCIA: I know that Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms was asked today, directly by the demonstrators, to lift this curfew. That was a point of contention, and it seems to still be right now, as the curfew is in effect.
CUOMO: All right.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Go ahead, Chris.
CUOMO: Because we have - all right, thank you, Nick, be safe. Take care of you and Mike. Take care of the team. And give us an angle where we can see this. We'll keep the picture up, and we'll monitor it here as well.
I do think it's important though. We have a very, very important guest that we have on the show tonight. There are a lot of steps in this struggle, OK? And I will cover the memorials today.
We're watching the officers move forward now, in a straight line. Let's - let's just watch, and make sure it's done the right way, all right? This is tough to do without anybody being upset.
[21:10:00]
(VIDEO - ATLANTA CURFEW BEGINS NOW AS DEMONSTRATORS REMAIN)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. You all messing the setup, man. I'm backing out. Let me go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't want to fight (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're still out here. We're still out here. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
CUOMO: Yes, Mike, you can follow them, and find out what's going on.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Let's follow them, yes.
CUOMO: Nick, go ahead.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Let's go.
CUOMO: Yes, as long as you're, you know, doing what they, you know, not - not becoming somebody they need to clear.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Sorry officers, we're out of the way.
CUOMO: We keep going.
Now, in the back side of this, we see, what appears to be National Guard's members, all right? Now, one of the interesting thing about them is they are not trained to do what they're doing right now.
They are not police. They are not trained in policing, and arresting, and dealing with crowd control, and that's why governors are very slow to use them, in situations like this. Their presence makes a huge statement, no question about it. It's amazing show of force.
But force can be met with force in these kinds of points of tension. And what you saw from that Atlanta Police Lieutenant is an acquired skill.
How do you speak to people who are angry, and angry with good reason, and negotiate things that wind up becoming some type of accommodation of equal and opposite forces? And that's why the police are out in front.
Yes, sneak around the side there, Mike. Good.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, let us go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, come on, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
VALENCIA (voice-over): There appears to be only about a dozen, or so, demonstrators. And we're looking at what appears to be one person being detained here, at least one person being detained so far.
CUOMO: I don't know if he's being detained. They want to talk to him. They're talking. Let's hear them talk.
VALENCIA (voice-over): What?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep walking. Keep walking.
VALENCIA (voice-over): He's just asking to keep walking. They pulled him aside and they're asking to keep walking.
CUOMO: Right. He was not detained.
VALENCIA (voice-over): The demonstrators are being pushed further into Downtown, are being pushed further into Downtown, more so towards the restaurants that are still closed, hotels, some of them still open.
And what we saw here, over the course of the last few nights, you know, we're not - we're not seeing the - the deployment of any teargas. We're not seeing the deployment or heavy use of force to clear these demonstrators. This appears to be a new strategy.
In fact, earlier today, they did have water - barricades that they had filled with water, removed the water barricades.
CUOMO: I hear you.
VALENCIA (voice-over): And we did see the line of police--
CUOMO: And Nick, while you're talking - Nick, while you're talking, if you guys can sneak around that corner--
VALENCIA (voice-over): Yes.
CUOMO: --go around the corner and let's just see--
VALENCIA (voice-over): Sure.
CUOMO: --what's happening around that corner if you can get there.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Sure, sure, sure, you got it. Here we go. Wants to see around the corner.
CUOMO: All right, so those people seem to have been moved along, all right good. And look, it's - it's great that there is no teargas. There are no flash bangs. There is no force. There are no detentions.
You know, those are sometimes a necessary consequence of people voicing protests. But I know it makes for provocative television. But it's something that doesn't help anybody.
All right, so they're going to continue their march, Nick, good. I appreciate it. Stay monitoring the situation. Let me know what changes. Great job of giving me a sense of the scene, appreciate it.
Now, I want to get to this witness tonight because we have a very specific amount of time. The--
VALENCIA (voice-over): OK. We're clear well here. CUOMO: The struggle to get to a better place has to begin with justice in the Floyd case. I know it's not the only case. I know that there are many. I know that this is about a pattern of behavior, over many years.
But Floyd, his death was so obnoxious, and so disgusting, on so many levels, and that we got to see it, and the time, and the callousness, that it is a legitimate flashpoint, and therefore, very relevant point for the search for justice.
As the case is being made, perspective is everything on why this happened, how it did. That is going to be the key to the officers' defense, I guarantee you that. Even with videotape, you will hear the argument that the officers were not perceiving it, the way it seems obvious to so many people.
Maurice Lester Hall is an account the likes of which we have not gotten to hear yet. He was, yes, a friend of George Floyd. He was also in the passenger seat with him in the SUV that police approached on that Memorial Day.
He knows exactly what happened in those last minutes of Floyd's life because he was there. Mr. Hall is here for his first TV interview with his Attorney, Ashlee McFarlane.
[21:15:00]
I'm sorry to keep you waiting. I'm sorry for what you've gone through to get to this point. I just wanted to make sure that we could show people in real-time what was happening there.
Counselor, thank you for being with us tonight, I appreciate it.
Sir, if you could, just please, give me your perspective on what happened when the police approached that car, in terms of what they were asking for, and what they were offered up by you and your friend, Mr. Floyd.
MAURICE LESTER HALL, GEORGE FLOYD'S LONGTIME FRIEND/PASSENGER IN SUV: May 25th, Memorial Day, Mr. Floyd and I was approached by two officers.
One had took the side of my car door, and asked for my ID, which later, I heard a loud distraction of a sound coming from Mr. Floyd's direction, of another officer sounding like he was trying to break the window of Floyd's side, of the driver side of his SUV truck.
And our - at that moment, it startled Mr. Floyd, myself, and maybe even the partner - the partner, the officer, because he then ran from my side to the other side of the vehicle, after his partner was on my brother's side, I believe, using a use of force.
CUOMO: Well Mau, help me understand the situation.
So, the officers came up to both sides of the vehicle, asking for ID. What happened on George's side of the vehicle that made the officers run after there, do you - over there, do you remember?
HALL: I do. I remember hearing a loud like the object of a blunt force, some large object, whatever the officer had in his hand. Again, I'm turned because I'm taking care, the officer that's on my side. I can only hear this.
And once I hear this loud distraction of this officer trying to break George's window, then he's demanding things. And I can hear George asking him "What do you," you know, what did he want him to do?
CUOMO: So, he's asking him--
HALL: And--
CUOMO: So, George wasn't saying "Get away from the car. Leave me alone. I'm not going to get out."
HALL: No.
CUOMO: Nothing like that?
HALL: No. No. Not at all. No. In fact, he was only asking, he said, "What do you want me to do?" He - the officer startled George, first of all, by bluntly banging on the window.
Once he's done that, then I can see Mr. George putting his hands above the steering wheel, of the - of the vehicle. And once he did that, then I witnessed the officer reaching in, and grabbing Mr. Floyd's hands.
CUOMO: Now, when they grabbed Floyd's--
HALL: Then I hear George--
CUOMO: When they grabbed George's hands, and put him behind his back, in the videotape, it seemed like it took a long time to get him out of the car. What was happening during that time?
HALL: He was asking them questions. They asked him "Let me see your hands." George showed him his hands, over the steering wheel.
And when they - when he did that, the officer reached in, and grabbed his hands. Now, keep in mind, he did startle him by like he was trying to break the window. "Open the door," he - he demanded.
He - what I believe the energy was set wrong by the police when they approached him because they - they approached with like energy where it startled Mr. Floyd. That's what I believe.
And he was just trying to diffuse the situation as best as humbly that he could. The man asked him what did he want him to do, Mr. George, and then, the cop said, "Put your hands up. Show me your hands."
Floyd showed them hands. Put his hands in the air, as a sign of "Here go my hands. I'm not moving in the vehicle. I'm not trying to - I'm not trying to flee," or no such. CUOMO: George was saying things like that?
HALL: And when--
CUOMO: George was saying things like "I'm good. I'm not going to do anything. Here it is," he was speaking that way?
HALL: By - by actions.
CUOMO: By actions.
HALL: By showing them his hand, "Here's my hands, over the steering wheel." When he shows his hands, and put them over the steering wheel, the cops reached in, and grabs his arms.
CUOMO: Got it.
HALL: When he grabs his arms, George asked the cop, "Why - why are you grabbing me with the use of force? Why are you doing this? You asked to see my hand. Here go my hands."
He's a big fella. Now, it's a cop, one officer is tussling with George hands, while George is still sitting in a peaceful form. He's in his vehicle. And the cop is - is like it seems as if he was trying to pull him out or something. I can't really, you know, because the officers--
CUOMO: Did you hear them telling George to get out of the car?
HALL: No.
CUOMO: Right.
HALL: I just saw - I witnessed and remember the officer then from my side taking off to his partner's side.
CUOMO: Right.
HALL: Now there's two cops on George's side.
CUOMO: Did you hear? They started shouting gun--
HALL: And--
[21:20:00]
CUOMO: --or the reporting was that they thought someone may have a gun or - and that's why there was an urgency. Did anybody in the vehicle have a weapon?
HALL: No. They didn't find a weapon. They detained the car. So, I mean, if it was a weapon involved, you guys, I'm sure it would have came out.
CUOMO: And--
ASHLEE MCFARLANE, MAURICE LESTER HALL'S ATTORNEY: There's no weapon. CUOMO: All right. No. Thank you, Ashlee.
And also, the reason I'm asking is, Counselor, and obviously, it's an obvious question, Mau, because the idea of did they ask George, "Do you have a gun," and he didn't answer, or was there anything that you remember that gave an officer any reason to believe that there was a weapon?
HALL: No, Sir. At this point, once they reached for Mr. George Floyd's hands, it took the whole situation into a turmoil that didn't have to be. All George was doing was just trying to stay humble, and trying to be relaxful as possible.
And once they dragged him out the vehicle, and he stood up, the cop that was on his side, those two cops, they - I get - I don't know, they was intimidated maybe. I don't know what they were thinking at the time.
But they - George, he - he then was in peacefullest form. He retreated to his knees saying, "Hey man," in so many words, "I don't - I've been hurt. I've been hurt, officer, please officer."
You know, in other words, like "Why are you all detaining, using such force right now with me?" I mean "Here I am."
CUOMO: So, we don't see George--
HALL: "I'm not resisting."
CUOMO: --we don't see George fighting in the video. We see the officers taking him out. It's a little bit of a tussle in the car to get him out. That's why I'm asking you those questions how it went.
HALL: Right.
CUOMO: Then we see him--
HALL: Right.
CUOMO: --sitting on the ground, by the store, where you guys were, and there's time passing and they're talking. What was that about, do you remember?
HALL: They had me detained, at that time, on the other side, as you said. I could see, and witness across the street, and hearing him talking. And I witnessed other cops still down in like - still like, to me, I can see them taunting him. That's--
MCFARLANE: Chris, are you talking about before they crossed the street?
HALL: Yes. No, I--
CUOMO: Yes. Yes, yes, Counselor, remember how like in the video, I don't know how much of it you've digested, at this point.
MCFARLANE: Yes.
CUOMO: But one of the questions here, Counselor, is why it took so long? You know what I mean?
Whatever they were doing in the store, whatever they felt the call was about, and what the stop was about, you know, the job is to arrest these guys, if they think they have probable cause, and take him away. But this took such a long--
MCFARLANE: That's right.
CUOMO: --time that has never made sense. And that's why I'm asking this way, Counselor. So, if you can help me along with it, that's great.
But Mau, my point is they could have, once they pulled him out of the car, they could have put you in a cruiser, and taken you away, if they thought they had probable cause for arrest. But they didn't.
HALL: Correct.
MCFARLANE: That's right. That's right.
HALL: They contained - they corralled me. And then they was only focusing on George, Mr. George, which he was doing a peaceful pro - he was in his humblest form. He's on the ground.
MCFARLANE: And - and Chris, from - from what Mr. Hall has told me, from the beginning, this, you know, as he set the stage, Mr. Floyd was shocked by this, when they came to this - came to his car.
So, he's trying to gather what was happening. He was trying to figure out what, you know, what was going on, what did they want. He - he continued to tell them that he was - he was--
HALL: Not resisting.
MCFARLANE: --not resisting, doing what they wanted him to do, and trying to figure out what it was about. You saw, within seconds, really, of approaching the car, they put him in handcuffs, and - and then led him across.
CUOMO: Right.
MCFARLANE: You know, my client will tell you, he said, you know, "I've been hurt before. Please. What is this about?"
CUOMO: Right. So, Counselor, we're showing right now, just so you understand, we're showing like kind of three moments in, OK, you have - let's - let's look at moment one, they approach the vehicle.
MCFARLANE: Right.
CUOMO: Moment two, they have George Floyd up against the wall. He's sitting on the - on the ground, against the wall, which I believe is part of the store where they were. HALL: That's right.
CUOMO: Your client was on the other side of the street.
MCFARLANE: That's right.
CUOMO: And why did they sit him down there, Mau? And what were they asking him? You know, like what was the point of having him on the ground, and talking to him there, do you remember?
HALL: I do not. Only thing I can remember - I thought - I thought that they were still fighting and tussling with him, the only reason he was on ground.
CUOMO: Yes, well he was just - he was sitting there.
HALL: In fact--
CUOMO: And then they pick him up, and they start taking him to an SUV, and he falls on the ground. They then, kind of half have him in. Then he's back on the ground again. What were you seeing there?
HALL: I witnessed them--
CUOMO: What was going on?
HALL: I witnessed them - I witnessed them, at this point, that you're speaking of, he's very well handcuffed, when they have put him in the cruiser car, then they pulled him back out.
CUOMO: Yes.
HALL: But I - I have to shift down, at this point, to see, from my angle, and - and from that angle, I can see him like his - they was taunting him, like they was taking, you know, like just, I don't know, it looked like they was just taunting him.
[21:25:00]
CUOMO: See we're showing - we're showing them move George from the Mercedes SUV, over to the wall. And now, he's on the ground sitting. It's a flash shot, so we don't know how he got down there.
Now we see them pull him up, by his arms, which were obviously handcuffed behind his back, and now they start moving him over.
HALL: Right.
CUOMO: George is obviously complaining about what's going on. They're looking at his cuffs because he's complaining about it, reasonably, right? I mean, obviously he's been cuffed a while. He didn't want to be cuffed. It doesn't feel good.
MCFARLANE: Right.
CUOMO: Why did he, from your perspective, what happened in that cruiser, and why he had to wind up face down on the ground, the way he was, with the officer on his throat, how did you understand it in the moment of what was going on, and why?
HALL: At this point, I can remember seeing Mr. George feet from the cruiser at 3:20. So, I can see his feet, and - and remember seeing the officers riding his back, and messing it (ph).
So, from what I gathered, it was came, I believe, one of them said that lets - they thought he was going to be kicking or maybe was too large for the back of the car, so he may have had - I don't know what they thought actually but.
MCFARLANE: He - he recalls, he was standing across the street, all he saw was his friend on the ground, pleading for his life, begging and crying out for his life.
CUOMO: And - and--
MCFARLANE: He was--
CUOMO: --and the understanding, Counselor, from your perspective of what you've been told, why - so, they sit him in the cruiser, or the SUV, then they take him back out, which is one of the things that just--
HALL: Right.
MCFARLANE: I'm--
CUOMO: --doesn't make any sense here.
MCFARLANE: Right. And my client--
CUOMO: And then he's on the ground.
MCFARLANE: That's right. And my client doesn't know why they did that. All he saw was that he was on the ground, and he saw, from across the street, his legs kicking. He could hear him pleading. And he saw the officers on top of Mr. Floyd.
CUOMO: And how long--
HALL: And me knowing George--
CUOMO: --did it seem to go on, Mau?
HALL: A good 10 minutes. And me knowing Mr. Floyd, I'm always knowing that he's always trying to be as humble as he can because he know he get - he gets - he gets, you know, "Big guy" status, he gets extra attention, good or bad.
But he knows how to conduct himself, you know, just like the media and everyone knows, he's known as a "Gentle Giant," bottom line. So, even dealing with Law Enforcement that he has no control of, he still tries to pro - you know, come in his humblest form.
And that's what I remember witnessing. I've seen it before, and it turned out not like such, with him losing his life.
MCFARLANE: And, you know, Chris, my client will tell you, when he saw, and he was experiencing this, he didn't even know that Mr. Floyd was dead, at that point.
He thought that once he was getting on the gurney, and going in the ambulance, that they were going maybe to get him some treatment or maybe he was too big for the patrol car, so this was another way to take him in.
He didn't find out that Mr. Floyd had passed, and was killed, until the next day, on social media, like everybody else.
CUOMO: Maurice, when he was on the ground, and you heard him screaming, near the end, give us a sense of what that was like to hear it, and to see what you could? Where was your head and your heart when you were watching that?
HALL: Behind Mr. Floyd. And I was just feeling helpless because I was being detained by another precinct officer to stay, you know, not so active as far as movement, which was protocol.
And after seeing the video the next day, like my lawyer said, and knowing, from that angle of the video that was released, it's a horrific, it's a horrific act.
CUOMO: You think the officers knew that George was suffering and struggling the way he was?
HALL: The one that - the - the guy that was on his neck, for that long, I really believe from that - watching the video, he looked down, and studied, and knew, from my personal--
MCFARLANE: And Chris?
HALL: --belief.
MCFARLANE: Any human being with - with eyes and ears knew he was suffering.
HALL: I saw my brother--
CUOMO: Right.
HALL: --take his last breath. The world saw him take his last breath. He was dead before he left the scene.
CUOMO: Did you hear the officers saying anything to one another about what they were doing to Floyd, or how George Floyd seemed to be doing?
HALL: No. Because after they got him on the gurney, and was - he was shuffled out of there, of course, they was asking the question, what are they going to do with myself, and a passenger.
And they was like "Are they good?" And asked a few questions, let us - everyone go and, cleaning the scene up like protocol police, you know, how they do, so.
CUOMO: They let you go?
HALL: Yes. They - they released us. They released us.
[21:30:00]
CUOMO: While they were on George, and Counselor, help me, if - if you feel I'm confusing context, I know your angle wasn't great. I know that you were dealing with the fact that you couldn't help him anyway because you were detained.
But were the officers talking to each other, or expressing any kind of interest, in George's condition, while the officer was on his neck? Did you hear any conversation from them about any kind of concern?
MCFARLANE: And Chris, he was - he was across the street.
CUOMO: Too far away.
MCFARLANE: There was a lot - it was a lot of commotion. Sirens were starting to - to come.
CUOMO: Right.
MCFARLANE: He was too far away.
CUOMO: Too far away.
MCFARLANE: But he did hear. He could hear George.
HALL: George pleading, saying, "Oh, they're going to kill me."
I can hear him screaming. I can hear him pleading for his life, and asking, and begging to just breathe. He just wanted to breathe. He just wanted air. And I just - I can remember hearing him squirming and crying out like the world hearing him.
CUOMO: You heard George say "I think they're going to kill me. They're trying to kill me?"
HALL: Not think. He'd say "They're going to kill me." I heard him saying, "I can't breathe."
CUOMO: If you can, Counselor and Maurice, will you do me a favor? Let me take a commercial. I don't want your only perspective on George to be how he died.
I want to hear about why you loved him, why he was your friend, and what you know about him that people need to know about him, to understand why your telling of the story, and people who know him about how he would have been with the police, is something they should listen to, and understand.
So, I'll take a quick break, I promise. I don't want to drag this out for you. I know you don't want to talk about this. I know it's hard. And I appreciate it. But people need to understand who he was.
We got so much bias and stuff to strip away from people, so they can just see it for what it was. So Counselor, are we good with that?
MCFARLANE: Yes, thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, thank you. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. This is a perspective we have not heard, and right now, as this case is coming ever closer, it's one that we need. Please, stay with us.
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CUOMO: All right, we were in the middle of an interview, a perspective we have not gotten yet on the George Floyd situation. We've shown you the video, but we now have a friend of George Floyd's who was in the car, all right, Mr. Maurice Hall, who's with us right now, with Counselor.
Thank you very much, Counsel, for coming back, Ashlee McFarlane. Thank you very much to have you both. Thank you for waiting over the break. I just want--
MCFARLANE: Thank you.
CUOMO: I want it to be clear to people. The stop that resulted in the death of George Floyd also resulted in no arrests for you, or the other person, who was in the car. You were let go at the end of all of this, right?
MCFARLANE: And Chris, I want to - I want to interrupt for one second.
CUOMO: Please?
MCFARLANE: Because I think this is an important point.
Oftentimes, in most times, you know, I don't allow my clients to talk to the media, right, for various reasons.
This is a different case. The only reason that we have the pressure that we have right now is because of the public seeing what happened, and the public reacting, and making sure that justice is being carried out. I want to make sure.
We didn't get into a lot of the facts here tonight because I want to preserve my client's testimony for trial, as a potential witness in trial. But I think it's important for the public to know that Mr. Floyd did not resist. That is clear without a doubt.
So, I want to be careful of how much we talk about, on your show, and I respect you a lot, but that was the point of doing this, is to make sure that the - the public knew that he did not resist.
CUOMO: Understood.
MCFARLANE: And much - much of the rest of the facts we'd like to preserve, we'd like to preserve it for court.
CUOMO: Understood. Agreed to, and understood, and accepted, Counsel.
I was just trying to highlight the fact that a man is dead, and people were actually let go, at the end of it. So, the idea of suggesting "Well it had to be something bad" is, at a minimum, a weak argument.
Now, the man you knew, as your friend, Mau, tell me why, or tell me what people need to understand about George? Big George! Big strong George could be menacing, maybe scare a police officer, because of how big he was.
What did you need to know about George?
HALL: That's--
CUOMO: And what did George know about himself that led him to handle himself the way he did?
HALL: George is a very wise guy. He knows his strength. He knows his capability.
He knows his heart. He know where he come from. He's a leader. He's very wise. He has an aura, an energy about himself. He knows how to be seen, but not like he's trying to be seen. He's very professional, in other words.
MCFARLANE: And, you know Chris, he described him to me like this.
He said, you know, George was an adder to your life. He said some people subtract, some people divide, but he added to - to everyone's life that he came in contact with. And he certainly left a huge impression on my client.
[21:40:00]
CUOMO: What do you want people to know about him, when they hear the name George Floyd? And obviously, you know he has - he has touched a nerve in this country and, in fact, around the world.
What do you want them to know about the man who's not with us anymore? I know you're still talking about him in the present tense because all of this is still in shock. And I feel for you on that level. What should they know?
HALL: Big George Floyd, the Gentle Giant, my King. He was my Panther.
CUOMO: I'm very sorry for your loss.
And I hope that, as your - as Counsel is relaying that his death comes to mean so much more than just the circumstances of the same that it gets us to a better place and a recognition, if only because of how graphic this was. And I'm sorry you had to live through it, Sir.
But Maurice Lester Hall, thank you so much for giving us the truth of your perspective about what happened because people have a hard time accepting the truth in this country sometimes.
And Ashlee McFarlane, thank you for clarifying the issues. I wish you good luck going forward.
MCFARLANE: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, God bless, Maurice, thank you very much.
HALL: Bless you too.
CUOMO: All right, so look, you can't beat the perspective of somebody, who's in the car, OK?
And I have no problem with them preserving testimony. It's fine. It's not unusual. It's a balance of what you say publicly and what you don't say, especially before a trial. Counsel is being cautious, and I understand why.
But the man was in the car. He wound up being let go. And the entire time, he heard his friend wondering why it was happening this way. And you do have to open-mindedly recognize this.
Why did it take so long? George Floyd was a big guy. He wasn't Shaq, OK? You know, the idea that he can't fit in a car doesn't make sense. He was in a car. He was in a midsize Mercedes SUV, OK?
Why against the wall? Why backup? Why on the ground? Why in the cruiser? Why back on the ground? Why so much time? This is what has to be answered in this prosecution. That is what fairness under the law demands in this.
Because for something so extreme to happen, for so long, I don't know what your background is, and it doesn't really matter. Nobody is trained to put their knee on someone's throat. It is an inherently deadly thing to do.
I'm not talking about on the nape of the neck. I'm not talking about on the back of the neck. I'm talking about on the throat OK? I have most of a lifetime learning this stuff. You won't find a cop who told you he was trained to do that.
Why do it? Why that long? Why nobody's saying anything about it? It is a horrible mystery. And that interview is very helpful in just cementing our idea that it didn't make sense to him either.
Now, before Floyd was killed, we were taking apart the murder case of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. It's not just one thing, OK, the pandemic, what happened with Arbery, on your screen, what happened with Floyd on video.
We have more information to share with you about the Ahmaud Arbery case. Details are emerging. All three suspects are ordered to stand trial. Ahmaud's mother has been listening to the interview, and she's here, along with an Arbery Family Attorney.
I want to shift your attention to that because it's the same issues. I know they're not police, makes the case harder on those defendants. But what they heard in court today was so direct to what it's all about. I want her reaction and yours as well, next.
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CUOMO: A Georgia investigator gave details in court today about how Ahmaud Arbery was targeted that confirmed that the situation is as ugly as it is imagined to have been that he was pursued, that he was run down, and murdered.
Then, as he lay dying, his accused killer reportedly spewed hate that takes this directly to what it was most feared to be about. Even the invest - investigator winced when he had to repeat the words.
Ahmaud's mother, Wanda Cooper, is with us tonight, along with Family Attorney, Lee Merritt.
Thank you both for being with us. And thank you for being so patient.
I know you too, especially you, Ms. Cooper, and you too, Mr. Merritt, understand the need for perspective in that Floyd case from somebody who was there because so many people want to see these things in a light that just doesn't stand up to the truth.
And for you, Ms. Cooper, I'm so sorry for your loss, and to have to talk to you about this. But it matters for people to understand.
What you learned in court today about what Ahmaud had to deal with, and how it was, and the words that came out of one of the men that reflected what was in his heart, in that moment, what did that mean to you?
WANDA COOPER, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: It was very heartbreaking. I often imagine the last minutes of my son's life. I didn't imagine it would be that harsh. But to learn that that statement was - was made, in the last seconds of his life, it - again, it was very heartbreaking.
CUOMO: Is this a situation where, as a mother, you wanted to know what happened, or do you wish you had never heard?
[21:50:00]
W. COOPER: I wanted to know. I think knowing what happened will give me a little sense of closure of what actually happened out in Satilla Shores.
CUOMO: The words used by one of the killers, it's nothing that you haven't heard before. It's nothing that we don't know exists, especially in a lot of dark hearts.
But to know that it was said, in the moment, about your son, right after they had to realize what had happened, what they had done, what's its significance to you in that moment?
W. COOPER: At this point, I'm really speechless, because it's - I mean it's hard to know that he had to go through that after he had to - ran.
He actually ran for his life. And then, when he couldn't run anymore, he had to fight. And then, after he fought, he was killed. Very hard to know that he - he endured that.
CUOMO: The third man, the man who gave us the video, right, gave the world the video, that wound up making this real for people, his lawyer says he was just doing what any patriotic citizen would do.
He was helping a neighbor. He saw a man he didn't recognize, running down the street, a vehicle with people he did recognize, pursuing them, so he went to help, and see.
What is your take on what this situation was about?
W. COOPER: I think that Mr. Roddie played a major part. He just wasn't riding along and minding his own business. His part was the video-man, and he played that part very well.
CUOMO: What happened with George Floyd, what happened with Ahmaud Arbery, different circumstances, different places. These men were not - no matter what they thought, they were not police officers. They were not acting under any color of authority.
What is your hope that these cases come to mean for this country?
W. COOPER: I'm hoping that the death of my son, also of Mr. Floyd, that their deaths will implement change. We need change, so no other African-American male will lose their life in such manner. CUOMO: Now, last time I interviewed you, Ms. Cooper, and you Counselor, I cut it because I'm not going to bathe you in the misery that you have to live with more than the rest of us, and for the rest of your life. And I'm sensitive to that now too.
I'm not going to repeat what we learned. And, in fact, you know, anybody in this audience, out of third grade, knows exactly what kind of words, were used, and how they described your son, and it doesn't bear repeating.
Lee, what does bear a little bit of context, from your legal perspective, is the early narrative of "He was just jogging. We followed him. He wouldn't stop. So, we got out of the car," and then he jumped the guy with the gun, so he had to shoot to defend himself, that's not what the GBI has found.
They found that this was much more intentional, and that Ahmaud had to deal with a lot more, including a vehicle attack during this. What was clarified, according to the GBI's perspective?
LEE MERRITT, ARBERY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well exactly what you said that there was a level of coordination. And - and I will just say, from a human perspective, sitting next to Ahmaud's mother, Wanda, during, as this testimony came forward, it was very difficult.
And I like to think that that I can be pretty composed. But as I saw her began to be impacted by those words, I began to breakdown. And, you know, I understand how hard that was for her to get through.
But the - what we learned from the testimony that went forward with, this was an intentional act by men, who were motivated by hate. We heard the N-word used repeatedly.
But every interaction they had with Ahmaud seemed to be based on a fear of his Black skin, and we just heard it over and over and over again, as they walked through the narrative.
And it seemed like the defense was leaning into that as a defense that Ahmaud was a menacing Black man, even as he ran away.
CUOMO: And that there is reason to believe that he was hit by one of the vehicles, yes?
MERRITT: I - we didn't pick up the testimony that he was hit by a vehicle. He was ran off the road into a ditch by Mr. Roddie.
And so, in order to avoid being struck by the vehicle, Ahmaud went into a ditch so that the car wouldn't dip down into it. But that did not end the pursuit. They continued to circle around him.
CUOMO: Right.
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MERRITT: And this - this was an ongoing aggressive pursuit. CUOMO: That's it. That's the point of clarification. Lee, thank you. There's much more to be told here. We will not let the case go away. That's one of the mistakes we've been making in this country.
We have to stay on these situations through resolution and figure out what difference they make in that community because the difference on your lives will be forever, and we have to honor that as well.
Ms. Cooper, I'm sorry to put you in these hard situations. But I hope, in the interest of truth and understanding, it makes a difference in people's lives. God bless you and the family. I wish you well.
Counselor, you too.
W. COOPER: Thank you.
MERRITT: Thank you.
CUOMO: Wanda Cooper, Lee Merritt, all right, we're going to be right back.
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CUOMO: All right, let me bring in my man, D. Lemon. CNN TONIGHT is obviously going to pick up the coverage. I'll tell you, we had a different show planned.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: I know.
CUOMO: But you - you cannot match, in the law, let alone in just humanity, a set of eyeballs and ears that are there at the scene.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That are part of the situation, and who know the people involved.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Very powerful account by Maurice, George Floyd's friend, and by the way, helpful, with Counsel also, to help shape his recollections. But it just breaks your heart that the more you learn the more you realize that it was not motivated by anything but the wrong things.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: And it just breaks your heart, Don.
LEMON: And they're admitting that in the courtroom.
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