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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Abruptly Scraps Stimulus Talks; White House Cluster Continues To Expand; Biden Calls For Unity In Gettysburg Speech. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 06, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Senator Tim Kaine, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
KAINE: You bet. Absolutely.
COOPER: Our coverage of the debate starts 7 P.M. tomorrow night. That's it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thanks Coop.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
The White House cluster keeps claiming victims, as more key members of our government go down and Trump insists "COVID? No big deal."
No big deal that now all but one member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are quarantining after exposure, that Stephen Miller now tested positive, mastermind of many of Trump's divisive policies, also a fourth press aide has just tested positive.
Over two dozen have fallen to COVID so far and gotten sick. And more are likely, given the continued unmasked madness in that place. The cases there are coming faster than anything we've seen befall this White House other than many of the indictments and disgraceful exits.
The problem is Trump's recklessness has him losing key players just as the country needs him and his team most. Instead of making it better for people, he seems intent on making it worse.
Ripping off his mask, and letting his COVID breath rip roar around the White House, does it make him look like a Patriot-in-Chief to ignore the only thing we have keeping us safe from a pandemic?
He said he wanted to get back to work, so he gets out of the hospital but then he abandons negotiations on economic relief for millions until after the election? People are living week-to-week. Millions are struggling to get by, during a pandemic, and he's still choosing just to risk it all.
So, why would he think a dangerous stunt like ripping off his masking, doing this, would be the right message? Shameful but true.
Ripping that mask off was less dramatic than how he's ripping the scab off so many families' economic wounds. The economy is tanking. They need relief. Shame on the Republicans. Shame on the Democrats. And shame on this President.
Most of those working are going to pay more in taxes to the federal government than our self-proclaimed billionaire POTUS, saving all that money, only paying $750 a year in taxes. When he was asked about it, in the debate, "I paid millions." "Yes, what about those two years?" "I paid millions." No, he didn't.
He lets others continue to struggle, and then tells you he's the best dealmaker we've ever had. So, where's the deal?
And despite being fresh from the hospital, still being treated, Trump is once again saying COVID is no worse than the flu. That is wrong. In eight months, COVID has killed more people than the flu did in the last five flu seasons combined.
There is now a warning on Twitter about Trump's disinformation, again today. Our President is lying to you about a pandemic. "Don't let it dominate." Tell that to the people hooked up to ventilators right now, fighting for their lives.
The widow of a 41-year-old Broadway star, killed by COVID has a lot to tell the President, and you, tonight. Nick Cordero's wife will be here exclusively, in a moment. She wants to speak for all those victims and afflicted families, who heard the President, dismiss their pain.
And then, we have another round of Thunderdome tomorrow. Another debate after that last debacle? It was literally and figuratively sickening. The place where they're holding it, Utah, 716 cases reported today. It's on the rise. That's where the VP debate is going to be.
Mike Pence, the Head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force has insisted on making it less safe, by saying no Plexiglas barrier between him and Kamala Harris. Why? What is this, a cage match?
The Debate Commission says it's not going to allow that. I mean, at what point, do they stop taking unnecessary risks? Hey, is Pence going to take the test, or is it going to happen like it did with Trump? "Showed up too late."
Where are those negative test results from Trump for last week? How hard are they to come up with? You think they'll just tell you the truth? Did they test or not? Where's the answer?
All right, let's talk about the state of play. Let's bring in Dr. Ashish Jha, and Van Jones. Thank you both for joining us tonight.
I'll take silence as acceptance.
Dr. Jha?
DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Hi, Chris.
CUOMO: The idea of saying, "Hey, listen, I beat it. You can beat it. Doesn't affect anybody really, it's just like the flu. You can be just like me. Don't let it dominate you," public policy impact?
JHA: Yes. Where to begin, Chris?
Look, this is not the flu. It's not the flu. We've known that since - really since March. It's killed 210,000 fellow Americans. And to keep iterating that is so deeply disappointing.
[21:05:00]
I don't know why, I really had hoped that somehow the President going through this would be an awakening, he would realize how serious this is, and he would come back from it, warning the American people to be more careful.
And instead, he's telling people to ignore it and to act like it isn't there. And, of course, that's only going to lead to more suffering and more death if people listen to it.
CUOMO: And the debate, is there a chance, Doc that this could be another bad situation where, you know, we saw from the last debate, people got sick? We saw the President's family refusing masks. How big is the risk here? Or can it be managed?
JHA: Yes, so, look, what we know now is that the President was probably infectious during that debate, and it is unacceptable that people show up to these things and don't follow the rules.
There's a reason we have a set of rules. There's a reason the Cleveland Clinic has set up the rules that they have. It's how we protect everybody. And you don't just get to flout it because you're the president or the first family.
I don't think that they have any credibility for setting rules. They have been a public health disaster. And I think we should let Cleveland Clinic set the rules for what is safe, and then everybody has to follow it, or I think the Biden campaign should not show up, if they're not going to have a safe debating environment.
CUOMO: So, one of the big points of the pandemic is so many families are struggling because they can't work, and now you've got compromised based on schooling. So many have to stay home with their kids, because we can't test and trace right in schools.
So Van, the President said, "Hey, you don't have to tell me. I wanted to make a deal. It's Pelosi. I mean, she's crazy. She just wanted to help all the big cities, but not the workers." I guess that means nobody works in big cities.
But do you think you get the stink for no deal?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, first of all, I mean the idea that he would - that the President of the United States, in the middle of this pandemic, where you have people who are literally in lines for food - food lines, people in cars for two hours, three hours just trying to get a little small box of food to take to their children, that he would just tweet out that "I'm just not going to talk to anybody about this until after you elect me," that is literally insane.
It's politically insane, because you got - people were hoping that something would get done. He's now owning the failure. He's saying, "I am going to cause the thing to fail."
But it's also incredibly cruel, because apparently what he's saying is, "If you don't - if you don't re-elect me, I'm not going to do anything in October, November, December, or January until somebody else is in here."
So, you're imposing four years of pain on the people, it's literally insane. And people are starting - there's no rational explanation what you're seeing out of this White House at this point, none at all.
CUOMO: Well, what about the "Democrats won't make a deal?"
JONES: Well, the Democrats have been moving forward. Mnuchin and Pelosi were getting closer to a deal. Now, the idea is if Pelosi doesn't do what she said, you're going to punish the country for four months? That's insane.
The two sides have been far apart, but they were moving closer together. There's at least a spirit you get something done. Mnuchin, I think, was caught as off-guard as everybody else.
The other thing is, to pull the rug out from under all the Republicans, including Mnuchin himself, is just literally insane. Something is desperately wrong in that White House right now.
CUOMO: Ashish, what do you think of the idea of the President going back to rallies and open events, which is almost undoubtedly how he got sick in the first place?
JHA: Yes, so hard to know where he got infected. But look, the CDC guidelines, on this is really clear, Chris.
10 days after onset of symptoms, up to the first 10 days, he is contagious. He should be going nowhere. He should be - he should not be taking joyrides. He should not be doing the kinds of things he's been doing. That, 10 days puts him at the end of this weekend. After that, I think he can get out.
But he has not been careful and he has not followed guidelines. He's got to start doing that to protect people around him and to protect himself. People can get re-infected. We're going to hope that that doesn't happen.
And obviously, there are plenty of people around him, who have not yet been infected. Fewer and fewer people around him not infected, but there are still people out there around him who are not infected. He got to protect those. CUOMO: Two more quick things. Ashish, do you think the messaging war is over that that's it?
Too many people have heard from him, saying, masks don't matter, they become a political statement and that's it that we're going to have a hard time getting under 40,000 cases until this virus just goes through enough bodies?
JHA: No. So look, 800 Americans are dying every day. We can't give up on this messaging war. We have three or four tools - testing, isolation, distancing, mask wearing. I'm going to keep saying it until I'm blue in the face every single day. We got to keep saying it because it's going to save lives.
CUOMO: All right, and Van, let me ask you this.
[21:10:00]
So, the word out of the campaign is, "No, we need this debate. Pence is going to show things about Kamala Harris that will really expose her as a weakness for Biden, and she is literally heartbeat away if they get in, and it has to happen. They need it in the campaign. And Pence is a radio host, former guy, great debater and he will show that team at its best."
JONES: Bring your popcorn. Kamala Harris is no joke.
I don't know who they're talking about. I don't know who they think they're going to be able to run over or roll over. You're going to be dealing with a seasoned prosecutor. You're going to be dealing with one of the toughest people in American politics. She is no joke.
Bring your popcorn. Bring your soda pop, and watch Mike Pence get taken to the woodshed tomorrow night.
CUOMO: I have sat next to you for at least two debates where you have spit either chicken or pizza at me after Kamala Harris said things, in debates, that caught you off-guard.
We will be watching. But I got to tell you, I wish it weren't happening, to be honest.
Dr. Jha, Van Jones, thank you both. Be healthy, be well, and thank you.
JHA: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, look, you want to beat COVID, you got to be strong like Trump, and everything's going to be OK, right? Wrong. You can be really strong. You can be strong as I am, you can be twice as strong, and you still die.
210,000 people can't speak for themselves anymore. But they weren't weak. Yes, a lot of them were old, but not all of them. And you know what? Just because you're old doesn't mean you have to die.
But their loved ones, like the widow of Broadway star, of Nick Cordero, she can speak.
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AMANDA KLOOTS, BROADWAY STAR NICK CORDERO'S WIDOW: It dominated his life. It dominated my life. It dominated our family's lives.
Have some empathy! Why are you bragging? Have empathy to the Americans that you are our leader. Have some empathy to the people who are suffering and grieving.
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CUOMO: We got to forget about the politics and remember that this is about people. That's what the pandemic is affecting. It's not about Left and Right. It's about everybody else.
Amanda Kloots is with us. She lost her husband, who was such a rising star, strong and brave, and she has a message for families like hers, and she wants you to hear it, next.
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CUOMO: More than 210,000 families in America are heartbroken because a loved one died of COVID-19. Every day, that number ticks higher, as do the millions of sick and struggling.
But still, the President says "Don't let it dominate you. Don't be afraid," as if it is something sick people can control, as if we all get 24-hour care in a hospital, and experimental treatments that we can all but waste out of our convenience.
"It's just the flu. No big deal." Those words hurt. They're not just wrong. They're raw.
So many, who were sick, and struggling, and scared, and coping with life-changing loss, Amanda Kloots has joined this new family that no one wants to be a member of, "Changed by COVID."
You know her. You know her late husband, Broadway actor, Nick Cordero. They got a little boy with one of the best names ever, Elvis.
95 days, she watched, as her husband fought like almost no other. He was somebody to her, his kid, his family, his fans. 41, prime of life, strong, talented, sweet. He fought. He didn't let COVID dominate. He had no choice.
Amanda Kloots joins me now.
Thank you very much for taking the opportunity, especially at this time. First things first, to the legacy, how's Elvis?
KLOOTS: He's a perfectly happy healthy little boy. I thank God for him every day.
CUOMO: Man, and you should. And you know what? There will be a legacy for him to attach and understand about his father, and I'm happy for this to be part of it.
KLOOTS: Thank you.
CUOMO: You're home, you're dealing with enough, and you hear the President's nonchalance, takes the mask off, "No big deal. You know, I don't know what the big - it's just like the flu. Don't let it dominate you. Don't be afraid. You can get through just like I did," how did those words hit you?
KLOOTS: Chris, honestly, it stopped me in my tracks. I was sitting here, finishing dinner, and I saw the tweet first. And then I turned on the news, and saw him speak live, and it broke my heart. It was like a gut punch, bringing back all of the - this the - everything we went through.
CUOMO: What do you think he doesn't understand?
KLOOTS: Sorry. The flippant comments, "Don't be afraid?" We were afraid every single day. We were afraid for our lives. We were afraid for Nick's life. And then, you're afraid for the world.
To tell somebody to not be afraid of this disease that took a life, that took over 200,000 lives, it took over 1 million lives, gosh, it just, you know, it's like a dagger in the heart.
[21:20:00]
CUOMO: We were talking a little bit about your husband struggling, you said, "You know, Nick had great care, you know? This isn't about him going without. He had everything he could," but that's the point.
KLOOTS: Yes.
CUOMO: Is, doesn't matter that you're a big beautiful Broadway star with lungs the size of barrels, and flexibility, and strength for days, and you're only 41.
It can be anybody, anywhere, and then the whole family is affected. And to this President, it's something that he doesn't even really want to have measured. He doesn't even want us to know the numbers.
What have you learned about how big the community is that you've become a part of through this misfortune?
KLOOTS: It's incredible. I mean the amount of help, and love, and kindness, and support that my family received that Nick's family received from our community here in California to all of the people that have been following the story, it's just been incredible. And I truly couldn't have got through it without it, for sure.
CUOMO: So now, here's the problem. We're still in it.
KLOOTS: Yes.
CUOMO: Nick was a cautionary tale for people. I remember it rocked people, and not just because of his stardom, because he's a somebody, but because of what he was.
I mean, 41, a big gorgeous, strong, healthy person, you're not supposed to struggle, 95 days, an epic fight. But it shook people and made them realize how random this thing can be.
And I hear from people, like you, all the time that the fact that this isn't at the top of the agenda of doing everything that can be done to get people in masks, and socially distance, and tests, the fact that everything is not being thrown at it is an insult. Do you feel that?
KLOOTS: Absolutely. I think that what he wrote in that tweet was such an insult, especially his words about "Don't let it dominate you," it not only has dominated the lives of the people we've lost, it's dominated the families of those people.
It dominated and it still does the hospital, the health heroes that were working every day to save my husband, the doctors and nurses.
It dominated people, who have lost their jobs and small businesses that have been closed and will not re-open. People don't have incomes. They don't have anything right now. And it's dominated everything.
So, his comments that he wrote not only are so insulting to everyone, who lost a loved one, and is in the grieving position that I'm in at the moment, but it is even larger than that. It's insulting. He owes the world, he owes America, an apology, for what he said. That's how insulting it was.
CUOMO: You're not going to get one. The question is, why?
KLOOTS: No.
CUOMO: Do you think it's that he doesn't agree, or do you think it's that his calculation is, this pandemic is bad for him, and he needs to put the message out that it's not a big deal, and it doesn't really affect anybody, and we're testing more than anywhere. And look, he's fine. It's going to go away.
KLOOTS: I think he had a chance, yesterday, to come out and be a true leader, and a chance to show empathy to his country, to the people that have suffered, and he had a chance, since having COVID, to even try to use the two days that he suffered in the hospital to relate to us, to relate to the world, to relate to the United States of America, and he didn't.
And instead - instead of showing empathy, and heart, he showed his bragging nature, and how well he's doing and how great he's feeling after 20 years, he's never felt better.
I wish I could say that to my husband. Even if Nick would have survived, the complications that COVID had on his body, he would have dealt with for the rest of his life. We would have dealt with for the rest of his life.
[21:25:00]
And it's just sad to me that he had a chance, yesterday, to really, after being diagnosed with COVID, and being in the hospital, he had a chance to be a human, and not political, not Republican/Democrat, a human, a human being, that has been a part of this pandemic, and he chose to go the other way, and it was very upsetting and really horrible, and sad.
CUOMO: You've got a lot on your plate. You are not a politician.
KLOOTS: No.
CUOMO: This is not an agenda-driver for you.
KLOOTS: No.
CUOMO: And I really appreciate you just coming out to speak to the pain, because you know a lot of people share your pain. And you want to speak for them, and let this President know and the others in leadership, people are hurting and they need help. And what is said matters. Not as much as what's done, but it matters.
KLOOTS: Yes.
CUOMO: So, I thank you for--
KLOOTS: Thank you.
CUOMO: --putting a fresh cut in your own wound so that other people can understand what's happening. And I'm very sorry to meet you under these conditions, but you know what? You're putting some purpose to your pain, and there is a - there's a blessing in that, so thank you.
KLOOTS: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: For giving me and the audience a chance to understand what is real. Forget about Left and Right, just real. Amanda Kloots, the best to you and Elvis, we're a call away.
KLOOTS: Thank you. Thank you.
CUOMO: OK?
KLOOTS: Thank you. Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, God bless.
KLOOTS: Good night. Good luck.
CUOMO: We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: Something really important about the vaccine, you may remember last night, there was a headline that the FDA is being told, "Hey, don't put in anymore barriers to the vaccine coming out," because the FDA had suggested, "Hey, we may not be ready by the election. We have to make sure this is safe first."
You remember, the White House said, there will be no politics? "New FDA rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before Election Day. Just another political hit job!"
I thought, Mr. President, you said there'd be no politics played with the FDA? I thought you had all your people say, "No, no, no. This is about the science. This is about the medicine. This is about the experts."
How can it be a political hit job from your own guy, the guy at the Head of the FDA you just put in there months ago? This is on you. And it is about the truth, and it is about safety. That's what should dominate you. Truth!
And here is another dose of medicinal truth. You said kids had to go back to school. You said it was a must. I and so many others kept saying to you, "Yes, you're right. Tell us how. Help!" You did nothing.
Schools are not open in enough places. The hybrid, the at-home, it's a mess. Ask any parents. The teachers are doing their damnedest. Lot of the schools are too. It's broken.
The President has been pressed here, and elsewhere, to do something about it. And after many months of saying, "Kids have to get back," but doing nothing, now he says he has the answer. Listen.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're announcing our plan to distribute 150 million Abbott rapid point-of-care tests.
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CUOMO: Now, he's reading that because he doesn't know what he's talking about, but it sounded good. Even Dr. Fauci, last night, had to couch that number.
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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The ultimate goal would be a 150 million purchase. And then I think there will be more after that. I'm going to be pushing for more.
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CUOMO: He's pushing for more. Here's the problem - two problems. One, we haven't gotten any. They have been making this promise for months. And then you have the math of it, 150 million tests. Holy Cow!
Do the math. There are more than 50 million kids in public schools alone. I know, Catholic, Christian schools, private schools, struggling as well. I know. We'll get to that. But the issues aren't the same - the issues are the same but the resources aren't, OK?
So, let's stick with the bulk of kids in public school just for a second. If you are testing those kids every other day, and you could argue that you should be doing it daily, you get 150 million tests, it won't last you a week, and that's before we look at the private schools and the parochial schools.
You got 6 million kids there as well. That's real. Got to deal with it. You also have the teachers, 3 million in the public schools, the faculty, the staff. They and their families count, too, right? They haven't been part of the discussion, why?
So, Dr. Fauci is pushing for more. That's good. But again, the basic problem is, what are you pushing for more? We haven't gotten any yet.
It was back in March that Trump made a big show about the kinds of rapid tests we would have. He didn't do a damn thing about it, until last month, when they announced these 150 million tests. "Any day! Any day! Any day!" The first batch, 6.5 million were supposed to go out last week. Can't find any proof of them in schools.
So, you know what happens now. Blame shift. Where are they? Those sucky governors, got one in my family, they need to figure out how to distribute them, and to what schools, so I guess it's on them. It's only 6.5 million.
And now, here's the big problem that nobody's telling you. Testing alone, that just counts cases. Doesn't stop cases, right? They're not going to keep kids safe all by themselves.
Here's an example of the truth of this proposition. The White House, for months, they told you they didn't need to spread out or wear masks because--
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JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Why won't you wear a mask? Is it sort of a personal political statement? Is it because the President would be disappointed in you if you don't wear a mask?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's a personal decision. I'm tested regularly.
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CUOMO: Ha! How did that age? "It's not a personal decision." Your personal decision ends when it starts to affect my person.
[21:35:00]
This White House bent their lives on rapid testing as a panacea and that masks were weakness. They weren't even using the tests correctly. We were told the White House was testing everyone, who got near the President and the President. Where are his negative tests from last week before Thursday? Silence!
But look at this. Even worse, the FDA's Emergency Authorization for the tests, called Abbott ID NOW, says it was designed to be used within the first seven days of symptoms.
What does that mean? It's not built to test people who feel fine, known as asymptomatic. When you're asymptomatic, those tests miss as many as one in three cases. Asymptomatic misses one in three cases. Now, the White House clusters starting to make a little bit more sense?
The ones we're talking about for the schools are also made by Abbott, different model called the BinaxNOW, but is it a different quality? Once again, according to the FDA, they are also only authorized for use after you show symptoms. So, this is your big answer? Not enough tests that don't catch enough cases?
Look, off-label usage isn't necessarily a bad thing. We certainly need to be thinking outside the box. We got no tools in the box as it is.
Rapid tests are a critical piece for schools, and it should have been done months ago, but you're still going to need masks and social distancing. In other words, this doesn't fix the hybrid model mess, and it's going to take a hell of a lot more than 150 million. Those are the facts. We have to do better.
We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: All but one member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are now self- quarantining, puts the Pentagon on some uncertain footing as the Senate and the White House are also in uncertain territory.
Let's talk risk assessment with President Trump's former National Security Adviser, John Bolton, Author of "The Room Where It Happened."
Ambassador, thank you for joining us.
AMB. JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Glad to be with you.
CUOMO: What's your level of concern about the diminished White House, as you have now about a dozen-plus being affected by activities there? What does that do to the functioning day-to-day?
BOLTON: Well, I think as the number of people and the level of the people are affected, even with advanced telecommunications, it makes a big difference in the West Wing, when that many people are knocked out.
And I have to say, it looks like it's only going to continue to get worse. So, there should have been a much higher level of seriousness about this from the get-go and, unfortunately, they're now going to pay the consequences, and so are the rest of us.
CUOMO: And the President being hospitalized, coming back out, his team members going down, is this just about day-to-day efficiency? We see that a deal for the families out there seems to be gone in Congress. The President has abandoned that negotiation.
But what about keeping us safe, national security issues?
BOLTON: Well, I think the President has mishandled the Coronavirus pandemic from the get-go, going back to January, if not before.
And I think now obviously we're caught literally one month from the election, and that's the only thing on the President's mind. So, I do think we are more vulnerable now to interference from our adversaries abroad than I would have expected.
I would have thought they would be more cautious, even in an election period, but this disarray in the White House, I've never seen anything like it. I don't think there's a parallel historically even going back to the Spanish Flu in 1918. And, as I say, I think the odds are, it's only going to get worse. CUOMO: The White House is actually a case cluster. I don't know how you could get a more negative metaphor for your effectiveness in dealing with it. Now we hear that a bunch of the Joint Chiefs are quarantining because of exposure.
But isn't our military apparatus, especially, at the top level is just a huge network of personnel? I mean, does it matter that they're in quarantine? It's suboptimal, obviously but does that make us unsafe?
BOLTON: No, I don't think so. Remember, these are people who are trained and planned to make their decisions literally under enemy fire, which could include biological weapons. So, it's inconvenient.
But I think the most important thing about the Joint Chiefs putting themselves in quarantine, because they had come into contact with somebody who tested positive, was how seriously they are taking it. This is the responsible way to act.
And if the White House had done this - and we know from any number of reports, for months and months, it was considered bad form to wear a mask. But if the White House had taken it as seriously as the Pentagon is now, I don't think we'd be in this disarray.
CUOMO: I mean it still is, right, Ambassador? I mean, he just ripped off his mask in defiance, and is once again saying something that is just demonstrably false that COVID's no worse than the flu.
Here's what I don't understand, and I'd love your take on. If an outside force exposed our Vice President and President and other key players to a virus, we would be at the brink of war. Yet here, it is the President's own recklessness that achieved the same thing. How do you make sense of that?
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BOLTON: Well, there is no way to make sense of it, other than it's the President's obsession with his own image and what he wants to project. And this feeling that if he acts the way he wants the world to be, the world will be that way. It's a form of mind control, is the only way I can put it.
Unfortunately, the Coronavirus didn't get the memo, and the President's recklessness - and there's example after example of it, including that joyride at the Walter Reed, over the weekend, now is putting a lot of his staffers at risk.
But more importantly, it sends a signal to people all over the country that somehow this is not serious. And it contradicts what Trump himself has said. He can't keep on a straight line here. And I think the pressure of being four weeks away from the election is now showing very clearly.
CUOMO: At some point, if we don't get the pandemic under control, if there isn't a more aggressive move by the federal government on testing, at what point does it become a threat to national security that we are just being too vulnerable for too long? BOLTON: Well, I think we have been vulnerable for too long already. I think if we had acted early and dispositively, this would look a lot different than it does now.
I personally think the real answer here is the vaccine, and I do think, in that sense, the federal government has tried to move quickly and safely at the same time. I think when we get the vaccine, this changes very, very dramatically.
The White House itself, the experience there shows testing is not enough. They were testing all the time.
CUOMO: Maybe.
BOLTON: It didn't stop the virus.
CUOMO: Maybe they were testing. We keep asking for the President's negative test results--
BOLTON: Well they say they were.
CUOMO: --from last work--
BOLTON: Right.
CUOMO: --last week, no word of where they are. It'd be pretty easy to produce if they had them.
Ambassador John Bolton, thank you very much for the reality, of what keeps us safe, and what doesn't, Author of "The Room Where It Happened."
All right, we'll be right back.
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CUOMO: So, what about Joe Biden? Fair question. Look, can't ignore the President pushing us deeper into a pandemic as he walks infected through a White House case cluster.
But Biden is making a pandemic push of his own, and it is worth your getting a sense of the very different message he is putting out from Captain Contagious-in-Chief.
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ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Biden, near the site of one of the Civil War's bloodiest battles, pressing his case for unity for today's divided nation.
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We must seek not to have our fists clinched but our arms open. We have to seek not to tear each other apart, but seek to come together.
SAENZ (voice-over): Biden traveling to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, invoking the words of President Abraham Lincoln.
BIDEN: Today, once again, we're a house divided. But that, my friends, can no longer be.
SAENZ (voice-over): The former Vice President with a push for bipartisanship and overcoming racial divisions, and issuing a call to action.
BIDEN: We must vote. We will vote. No matter how many obstacles are thrown in our way, because once America votes, America will be heard.
SAENZ (voice-over): With the Coronavirus crisis still raging across the country, Biden saying leaders should follow the science.
BIDEN: Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It's a scientific recommendation. We can't undo what has been done. We can't go back. We can do so much better.
SAENZ (voice-over): Biden's trip took him to the critical battleground state of Pennsylvania, while President Trump is sidelined from the campaign trail with Coronavirus.
With just four weeks, until Election Day, a new CNN poll shows Biden with his widest lead yet over the President, nationwide, the Democratic nominee ahead of Trump with likely voters by 16 points.
Biden's advantage fueled by support, from older voters, a group Trump won by 7 points, in 2016, but now backing Biden by 21 points. And the former Vice President, seeing an even bigger advantage among women, with two-thirds of female voters, favoring Biden over Trump.
Today, one of the Democratic Party's most revered woman taking aim at the current President.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: They're stoking fears about Black and Brown Americans, lying about how minorities will destroy the suburbs. So, what the President is doing is once again patently false, it's morally wrong, and yes, it is racist.
SAENZ (voice-over): In a 24-minute video, Michelle Obama making her closing argument for the election with her own pitch for unity. OBAMA: Let's be very real. America is divided right now, and a lot of people are being sold lies from those who want to get rich, or stay in power, or sometimes both. And, as I've said before, we must all empathize with those who might not look like us or vote like us.
SAENZ (voice-over): The former first lady urging undecided voters to vote their conscience.
OBAMA: We can no longer pretend that we don't know exactly who and what this President stands for. Search your hearts, and your conscience, and then vote for Joe Biden like your lives depend on it.
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SAENZ: Joe Biden didn't mention President Trump by name once in that speech in Gettysburg.
But shortly after, he was quick to criticize the President for canceling those stimulus negotiations. Biden argued that President turned his back on the very Americans who need that relief. Biden adding, "Worse yet, he never even really tried to get a deal for these Americans."
Chris?
CUOMO: Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.
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All right, let's bring in two great minds in the state of play, four weeks out from the election, the Wizard of Odds, O-D-D-S, Harry Enten, and Philip Bump, National Correspondent for The Washington Post. Come on the show more, I'll give you a nickname, too.
All right, let's look at the numbers here. Four weeks to Election Day, 57 percent of likely voters Biden, 41 percent, Trump. Now, let's look at this numerically and then we'll look at it analytically.
Harry, the numbers, you point to two key demographic groups that show a shift in this race from 2016. Lay it out.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Yes, it's two simple groups, right? It's voters 65 and older, and it's White women. And if you look at those groups, Trump won both of those groups, back in 2016, in the final polls.
And right now, what do we see? We see that in fact, among women overall, Biden has this huge advantage and among White women specifically, what you see is that Joe Biden - last time around, Donald Trump won that group.
Now you see Joe Biden up with that group by 12 points in the average polls. And senior citizens, Trump won it last time. And now, Biden is ahead with that group. So, two massive shifts.
CUOMO: All right, so those are the numbers. Now Philip, you take it on, because you know people look at the
numbers, they'd be like "I've heard this before. Clinton was up like 14 or something at about this time. Why is this any different?" Your answer?
PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: So, my answer is twofold.
The first is that if this actually holds, if this poll result holds, other polls match it this thing's a blow-out. I mean, so it's worth taking things with a grain of salt.
The main response is, in 2016, yes, Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote, lost in swing states. But her lead went up and down, and up and down, over the course of the entire year.
Biden's has been rock-steady. And not only has his been rock-steady, for example, I will say there has been no point in the last 150 days of the campaign where Biden and Trump were tied, whereas in each of the five previous elections, there were points in the last 150 days where they were tied.
And Biden has never been - his low point in the FiveThirtyEight polling average has never been less than 5 points above Donald Trump's high point. The two are simply distant. They're spaced apart, and that's the sort of thing you want to see, if you're Joe Biden's campaign, is it means people are locked in to where they are planning on voting.
CUOMO: Now, in the last race, Harry, we did see the now-President moving in these last four weeks. He started to make a move. What was that about then, and could that happen now?
ENTEN: No, I don't think - I mean, sure, it could happen now, right? I don't want to dismiss things. But there were a lot more undecided voters, there were a lot more third-party voters, at that particular point than going on right now.
So, Trump doesn't just need to win the undecideds, because Joe Biden's at or above 50 percent, as our poll indicates, he has to take voters away from Joe Biden in order to do so, very different than four years ago.
Last thing I'll note is Biden has been winning not just the last 150 days. He has been leading the last three years. He's just had a continuous lead. That's very much unlike what we saw in 2016.
CUOMO: All right, Philip, you take an interesting look at this demographic.
Other than pissing off older people by constantly painting Joe's age as a function of him being like one step from the grave and the other one on a banana peel, the President constantly, through his campaign, "Radical-Left, Biden's going to be co-opted, horrible things, culture war, everything's going to go the wrong way," why would 65 and older be resonating with Biden better than Trump? BUMP: It's a great question. And honestly, I'm not sure we really know the answer to that.
I will say though that one of the things, one of the features we've seen is something that Harry just got to, both sides are really, really locked in, that there aren't a lot of swing voters moving back and forth. It will be fascinating to figure out how big that swing group population is.
But the key demo that I really like to look at here is the actual - is the voters who dislike both candidates, speaking to that point, voters who dislike both candidates, in 2016, went for Trump by 17 points.
Now, consistently, they're backing Biden by 20-plus points, which shows Trump is also not getting the benefit of the doubt from people the way he did four years ago. And that's definitely hurting him.
CUOMO: Well, he is the President, so he has a record attached to him.
BUMP: That's right.
CUOMO: Even though he seems to be making it more Biden's fault than his own. I don't know how well that works.
Harry, looking at the electoral map, even if this number stinks, and it's really a tight race, overall, you say the electoral map still tells a story that is good for Biden at this point.
ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, Joe Biden is ahead in more than enough states to get 270 electoral votes. And you point out the polls were wrong last time around. But even if Trump outperforms the polls as he much - as he did in 2016, given the polls right now, Joe Biden would still be well over 270 electoral votes. So, even if the polls are off, Biden is still very much clearly ahead.
CUOMO: I don't trust it, Bump. It just doesn't feel like that in the country. Again, every time the President goes out, he packs the house, even though he's making people sick. The flags are all over the place again, the intensity online. I don't know. What am I missing?
BUMP: Well President Trump has done a very good job of building this sense that he has this energetic base that's supporting him. I mean, how many times we heard him talk about voters over the course of the year? It's a totally meaningless statistic, but something he talks about all the time.
The real test is if you look at what we're starting to see, people lining up for early voting, they're lining up in--
