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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Slams Debate Moderator Kristen Welker As "Terrible" & "Totally Partisan"; Voter Intimidation In Florida & Alaska As E-mails Threaten Voters; Former Longtime Trump Associate Releases Scathing Tell-All Book. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 20, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And that's it for us. The news continues. I want to hand things over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME".
Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you, Coop. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Fourteen days until Election Day, and divided we stand. The two presidential campaigns are complete opposite realities. Trump has us wondering if he's OK. And wondering where Biden is?
[21:00:07]
Now is the last chance for these guys. Many of you actually solidify your feelings about whom to vote for in the two weeks before an election.
Here we are. Trump is likely going to win or lose based on what you think of the pandemic and the response. He knows that. So the question is why does he think he can hide from COVID?
He says "We're rounding the corner." For that to be true, it is only true, if we're rounding a corner, and right after it is a huge cliff, and all the time that he had to build a bridge, the bricks of which would be testing, and helping states with tracing, the mortar of it would have been the economic pain that he can't get a deal on.
Where is the money? Where is the relief? Why won't he send more to people, on his own, like he did before? Instead of addressing those, at least letting you know that he's aware, he wants you to be aware of the real danger, Tony Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing I say is he's a little bit sometimes not a team player.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Are you talking about Fauci or you?
Forget that many of you trust Fauci about COVID way more than Trump. Who cares about Tony Fauci? All due respect! We seem to be collectively standing by as a pandemic is having its way with us. People are in food lines, all over this country, Red and Blue.
The virus is the truth. It doesn't play BS games. It does what it does. Too many of us can't get back to normal. Too many of our kids are in bad school situations, stressing the kids, stressing our families. Does Trump speak to that, a single idea to get things more open? No.
He just says "We need to get back to normal." Captain Obvious could not have said it better. The question for him is, how? What has he got on that?
His refusing to deal with the pandemic doesn't make it go away. His desire to make this election about something other than what we're all being suffocated by is not impressive and not normal. It's abnormal. This is only normal for him.
In his mind, pandemic's not the problem, media is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kristen Welker is terrible. I mean, she is totally partisan.
There are people out there that could be neutral.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TRUMP: Kristen Welker cannot be neutral at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: He doesn't want neutral. Why do you think he's always on State TV? He wants this. "Mm hmm Mm hmm"
You're not going to get that from Kristen Welker or from any of us. She's the Debate Moderator, by the way, for the second debate. She's also NBC's White House Correspondent, the real deal, OK?
Now, why is he doing this? Is this the COVID talking? Maybe the first lady isn't the only one who hasn't recovered. I was having hallucinations at night from fever, from where the President's point is now. And they made a lot more sense than his approach to this pandemic.
Now, this seems like a perfect moment for Biden to be on TV as much as he can. Should be here tonight, talk about the pain of the pandemic, talk about what he would do, say what's not being done, say what the fix is, how does that happen.
His people say he's hunkered down, doing debate prep. OK. But listen let's be honest about the debate, them putting in the mic-muting rule for two minutes for each guy, that's going to do most of the work for him. At least he's going to be able to make a case.
For a campaign that's trying not to repeat the mistakes of Clinton 2016, is sure quiet right now, maybe to a fall. And look, I get it. Trump is doing the work for him.
How many of you decided to vote for Biden today, when you heard the President of the greatest democracy ever take to TV to insist that the Attorney General should prosecute his campaign opponent over baseless claims that the Attorney General himself has decided are baseless.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you be appointing a special prosecutor?
TRUMP: We've got to get the Attorney General to act. He's got to act. And he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption and this has to be known about before the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You remember all the heat that came down when Bill Clinton met privately with Obama's A.G., Loretta Lynch, on that tarmac in Phoenix, in 2016, and rightly so? Looked terrible!
Biden should be all over what this President is trying to do with the A.G., make the case about what it means for where we are headed, if he's in leadership. But I have no sound of that for you.
But I do have sound of Trump, from four years ago, when that Clinton meeting happened. And boy, did he see what it was then, even though it's just as damning as what he's doing now.
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[21:05:00]
TRUMP: I think it's so terrible. I think it's so horrible.
You know I've been talking about the rigged system, how it's rigged.
Even in terms of judgment, how bad a judgment is it for him, or for her, to do this? I mean who would, who would do this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You would!
Now, draining the swamp seems to mean yelling at the biggest alligator to go after his opponent. And, by the way, he's picking the right gator, because remember, A.G. Bill Barr knows how to play the part.
You remember this jewel of an exchange with Senator Harris?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Attorney General Barr, has the President, or anyone at the White House, ever asked or suggested, that you open an investigation of anyone?
BILL BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I wouldn't - I wouldn't-- HARRIS: Yes, or no?
BARR: Could you - could you repeat that question?
HARRIS: I will repeat it.
BARR: Yes.
HARRIS: Has the President or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? Yes or no please, Sir.
BARR: The President or anybody else--
HARRIS: Seems you would remember something like that and be able to tell us.
BARR: Yes, but I'm - I'm trying to grapple with the word "Suggest." I mean, there have been discussions of - of matters out there that they have not asked me to open investigation but--
HARRIS: Perhaps they've suggested?
BARR: I don't know, I wouldn't say suggest--
HARRIS: Hinted?
BARR: I don't know.
HARRIS: Inferred? You don't know?
BARR: No.
HARRIS: OK
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Listen. I'm a lawyer too. When you play with words, it's because you need to. And it's usually a defensive strategy. Wonder if Barr would say that now. "Suggest? Hmm?" Come on, man!
Trump should be banging on McConnell and Pelosi's doors, not on Barr's. Get something done for the people who are desperate. And that goes for Biden too, to be honest. Why isn't he speaking out about Speaker Pelosi's role in this, pushing to get something done?
Look, if the Democrats are right and the GOP are playing games, in the committee process, and stifling this, from getting any deal, call it out. Show it to us. Show us you know how to push the players and the process.
Instead, two weeks out, we are in crisis, but Congress is playing quid pro quo, and those who want to lead us seem to be more of the status quo. So, our question, as we begin tonight is who is making the better play for your vote, two weeks out?
Van Jones, Rick Santorum join me now, thank you both.
First, Rick, I don't - we've discussed this several times. I don't get the President's play, man. I still think throwing money, at people in need, and putting his arms around the pandemic, and say, "I am going to get us through this, here's what I'm going to do," seems like the smarter play than attacking me and Tony Fauci.
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR - PENNSYLVANIA, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well he's certainly throwing money at this. I mean the President has upped the ante, I think now, for the third time.
I think he's even at the number that Nancy Pelosi has suggested which, by the way, isn't where the Republicans in the United States Senate are. But he's throwing money at this. He wants to make a deal. And Nancy Pelosi is pretty clear. She wants her deal, and not anybody else's.
Even at that, even if the President were to strike a deal with Nancy Pelosi, in the House, which it seems like he's doing everything he can, to get that deal, I seriously doubt that it passes the United States Senate. I just don't think the votes are there, on the Republican side, to do another $2.5 trillion deal right now.
CUOMO: Well, Van, look, here's what my reporting says. That's not true. He's not trying to kill himself to get it done. He's not doing the dealing himself. He's having other people do it.
And, if he doesn't have the votes in the Senate that confirms that he's not doing everything he can, because if he can't control McConnell and his boys, over this, then he can't control them over anything.
The question is, are the Democrats misplaying this as well? Because they do get some of the stink of "Well get something done," Van.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well I think that's true. But I mean the - it's not just that the numbers are getting closer together.
The substance of what Pelosi is trying to do versus what Mnuchin is talking about is just night and day, in terms of the amount of relief, those dollars would translate to for ordinary people. Pelosi is really trying to drive a lot more relief to ordinary people.
The reality that you have is, I mean just in case people have forgotten, here is what it looks like when a President is doing all he can. He calls the leaders into the White House. He basically locks the door, and says, "We're not leaving until we get a deal, period."
And it's not, "I've got Mnuchin over there," literally overseas, talking to her, at 4 o'clock, in the morning, while I'm doing 17 rallies, and sometimes talking about this issue on Fox.
This is not a president, who is focused on the main pain of the American people. People have two sources of pain, the virus and the economy. Trump is dealing with neither.
Instead, he's trying to sic the Attorney General on his opponent. That is insane. It's terrible. It's wrong. And there's no way to polish that turd, and make it into something more than it is.
[21:10:00]
CUOMO: Well, Rick, look, I see the long blink, when he was talking about the A.G. It does look terrible, especially after the A.G. came out - well he didn't really come out, but word got out that "Yes, we looked at that. We're not going to do anything with it right now."
But just as a tactic, you're two weeks out, Rick. This is the time, we know, a lot of voters actually solidify preference right now. And we know they can vote every day, if they want, in a lot of the states.
Do you think he's saying the right things to the American people right now?
SANTORUM: Well, first off, Nancy Pelosi is not trying to get more aid to the American people. She's trying to get more aid to Democratic governors. That's where the sticking point is, is money to the states that--
CUOMO: It is one country, Rick. It's one country.
SANTORUM: --that that - but - well yes, but it's going to big state governors. That's where that--
CUOMO: Well that's where a lot of the pain is--
SANTORUM: --that's where Nancy Pelosi's throwing a lot.
CUOMO: --Rick, a lot of the pain--
SANTORUM: Well yes.
CUOMO: --is in those same places.
SANTORUM: And some would say self-imposed pain. But to answer your question more directly--
CUOMO: You mean they got COVID on their own? They brought it upon themselves?
SANTORUM: I didn't say that. I said that--
CUOMO: Well you just said "Some would say self-imposed."
SANTORUM: --the self-imposed economic--
CUOMO: What do you mean?
SANTORUM: --the self-imposed economic pain of keeping this - keeping their states shut down--
CUOMO: What choice did they have?
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: --unnecessary.
CUOMO: What was the better option offered by the federal government, Rick?
SANTORUM: Well if you look at - look at states like Florida, and Texas, and Arizona, and others, who went through this, are now in numbers lower than Illinois, lower than Wisconsin, lower than other states that are seeing another rise, who have been shut down this entire time.
So look, I don't think there's a clear path--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: That's not an accurate assessment, what you just said, by the way, Rick.
SANTORUM: It is. It is. I mean the highest numbers in the state--
CUOMO: Texas had big trouble. They had to force a shutdown because they waited--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: --hold on a second. They had to force a shutdown because they waited too long. They had a lot more pain in waves that they didn't see coming that they didn't prepare for, because that Governor was playing with Trump.
And in Florida, come on Rick! Florida has been a national embarrassment. And you know it.
SANTORUM: The national embarrassment were New York and New Jersey, not Florida and Texas. I mean look at the death rates in those states.
CUOMO: New York and New Jersey are travel hubs.
SANTORUM: That's just the reality.
CUOMO: They're at the top of the list of international travel hubs, Rick. You know why they got sick. Why would you play this kind of politics with people's pain?
SANTORUM: I'm not playing politics. I'm just sticking with the numbers.
CUOMO: You know the reality, Rick.
SANTORUM: You want to have a factual discussion? Let's have a factual discussion.
CUOMO: Yes, let's. SANTORUM: And look at the numbers.
CUOMO: Let's. The Governor of Florida said, "Hey, you said it was going to be bad down here, where is it?" moving his neck like that, like a bad caricature of Italian people.
And then what does he do? He says spring break. He exports the virus all over the place. He plays with the numbers. They keep playing with the numbers. He doesn't want people to report them. Now he's got cases spiking all over the place.
SANTORUM: That's just - well first off--
CUOMO: Look at - look at the rate down in Florida.
SANTORUM: Florida's cases are not spiking all over the place and they're in--
CUOMO: The last two weeks in Florida, look at the rate of cases. Why would you defend bad leadership?
SANTORUM: They're not - they're not - they're not anywhere near what they are in Wisconsin, which is a much - or half this - half this - less than half the size of the State of Florida. They're worse in Illinois, which is smaller than the State of Florida--
CUOMO: But why would you cherry--pick it when they're up between 10 percent and 50 percent? We just showed it on the map.
SANTORUM: Again, from where?
CUOMO: Why would you call that success?
SANTORUM: They went way down, now they're going back up a lot and just every other--
CUOMO: Yes, of course they are, because he doesn't do anything--
SANTORUM: --state it's because--
CUOMO: --consistent with leadership, Rick.
SANTORUM: They are--
CUOMO: And if you don't do that in a pandemic, the virus will spread. But hold on a second.
SANTORUM: They are primarily, as you know, they are primarily younger people, going back to school, and that's why these numbers are spiking.
CUOMO: They are not primarily. Not down there.
SANTORUM: Yes, they are.
CUOMO: They've got all the snowbirds. And that was another thing. The Governor didn't want to count people who were snowbirds as Florida residents because that's really genuine, that's an authentic thing to do. It's not like that State has an entirely big population that comes in and out but they don't count all the sudden.
But wait, I have something for Van as well.
Biden. Biden is hidin'. I know he says he's getting ready for the debate. But Van, this is the time to speak, brother. He should be everywhere, making the - having the conversation I'm having with Rick, with the American people.
And it probably wouldn't go as well, depending on where he is, but we're professionals. It's fine. But he's not. And I get that he's getting ready for the debate. But it's more than that, Van.
JONES: Look, I would love to see him more. I'd love to see Kamala more.
I'd love to see, you know - but the reality is Trump is doing 27 rallies an hour. He's all over the place. He's saying so much crazy stuff. It's almost impossible to participate in a news cycle with the guy.
I think what you're seeing with Biden and Kamala in that campaign is a disciplined strategy to get to 270. They're trying to win this thing. And they want to be able to win this thing and be able to govern.
I agree with you, I would love to. Listen, but the thing is, Trump is doing so much dumb stuff, you could spend your whole day just whack-a- moling on all the dumb stuff he's doing as the candidate. And I think it's better and smarter for him.
He's on Zoom calls all day. He's talking in these, shoring up his support in places. It is a big, fractious coalition. He's got to hold this thing together. And he's - instead of broadcasting and fighting with Trump, he's narrowcasting to his campaign and--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I'm not saying he should fight with Trump. I'm saying he should be here right now until you - instead of you two handsome mugs, and he should be talking to me about this stuff. Kamala Harris should be doing it.
JONES: Look--
CUOMO: They should be taking every opportunity. It's just my take.
JONES: I'd love to--
CUOMO: Van, I appreciate yours. And Rick, I always appreciate yours. I do.
SANTORUM: Thank you. Me too.
CUOMO: We don't have to disagree. I love you, brother, and I want you to be heard.
SANTORUM: Me too.
[21:15:00]
CUOMO: And I'm happy for you to be heard here. People got to disagree with decency, my brothers and sisters.
SANTORUM: Thank you.
CUOMO: This other way is getting us nowhere. Gentlemen, have good night.
SANTORUM: Good night.
CUOMO: I mean it. I say it to you all the time. Look, we can get after it on this show. I don't agree with a lot of his analysis. Doesn't mean I think he's my enemy. I know he's not my enemy. We got to get back to that.
This "Divided we stand thing," man, it's not who we are. We're not going to make it this way. I'm telling you, this country has to come together. Our strength has to be a function of our sweetness. We don't do well with harshness. We're not bullies here. This doesn't work. We've got to get to a better place. How? Great question!
Now, here's what I know. Not much, but I know what doesn't work, a threatening message landing in the inbox of voters in at least two states. "Vote for Trump or else!" I don't like the way it smells. It can't be as obvious as it looks. I'll take you through what it looked like to people.
But now we've been working it. We have Donie O'Sullivan digging into what's happening. It's real. It's widespread. It's having an impact. But we have to get to the bottom of it, and we're going to take a step in that direction, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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[21:20:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: Voter intimidation, I told you we've been watching the polls, we're going to watch the process, and this is something you need to know, OK? This is happening as we speak. We've seen it in Alaska. Now, we're
seeing it in different parts of Florida, all right? It doesn't involve guys with guns at the polls, thank god. It's happening in voters' inboxes. But it can be scary, all right?
Voters are getting emails like this one, claims to come from the Proud Boys. When I saw that, immediately, I had to be like, "Well they can't be doing this. They know they'd get in legal trouble immediately." But the impact is the same.
The Proud Boys are a hate group, right, and they're a symbol as well. The President told them to "Stand back and stand by." Now, this, the subject line threatens "Vote for Trump or else!"
The email says they have the person's personal information, and threaten to come after them, unless they vote for Trump. Now, this is what voter intimidation looks like, OK? And it is definitely illegal, which is why I didn't buy the email there being so obvious.
Let's bring in Donie O'Sullivan on the investigation into these emails.
Donie, one of the classic mistakes is "Ah! Come on! I mean they already voted. I mean how could these people be worried about that?" It's scary, when you're not used to this kind of behavior. So, what do we know about who is doing it? Do they really believe it's the Proud Boys?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN POLITICS & TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yes, Chris, I mean, so when you see an email there, that email you showed, when it shows up on your computer screen, you just see the message. But there is details, metadata it's called, sort of under the hood of an email.
So, we have obtained some of these emails that were sent to voters, in Florida, over the past few days. I'm working with John Scott-Railton. He's a cyber-expert, at The Citizen Lab, at the University of Toronto.
We've been looking into how these emails were sent. And here is what we know. We know that one of the emails that we looked at was actually routed through computers in Saudi Arabia. Earlier, VICE News looked at the same message sent to a different voter. When they looked at this metadata, they saw it was routed through Estonia.
Now, does that mean that these emails came from somebody in Estonia and Saudi Arabia? No.
What it does mean is that whoever is behind, sending these messages, are taking pretty sophisticated steps, this isn't a totally amateur operation here, pretty sophisticated steps to hide who they are, and also to make sure that they can get around Gmail's and other services' spam filters, to make sure that these messages are getting into voters' inboxes and are tracking them, Chris.
CUOMO: So, what does that tell us about whether or not this is somebody from the outside who is doing what we see inimical actors do all the time, or that this is a friendly to the Trump side, or a friendly to the Biden side?
Who is this seen as helping, and what's the answer to the other question?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. So, I mean, the answer right now is we do not know. We have to be very clear that we do not know who is behind sending these emails, whether they are an actor here in the U.S. or somebody outside of the U.S.
The Proud Boys, the hate group that Trump embraced, deny that they sent these messages. Obviously, as you mentioned, the effect here is the same. The voter is still intimidated.
And Chris, you might remember, earlier in the summer, you and I spoke about, when there was protests, happening across the U.S., there was a fake Antifa account that was set up on Twitter that ended up being amplified by Donald Trump Jr. as sort of an example as to why we should all fear Antifa.
CUOMO: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: It later turned out that that account was actually run by White supremacists. So, it's very possible that in this case, this might not be from the Proud Boys at all, but could be from somebody either in the U.S. or outside of the U.S., trying to gin up trouble, trying to sort of push that unrest.
CUOMO: Donie, appreciate it, thank you very much. I wish we had some news you can use, in terms of how to stop it. But it's hard. They're finding ways away around spam filters.
So, if you see it, relax, call the authorities, tell them what it is, they may have an answer for you about what's happening in your area. But it is happening, and I want you to know. Information is power.
Trump, in Pennsylvania tonight, hoping to shore up support in that battleground state. He says, to his supports, he's winning three points to four points in Pennsylvania. Is he right? Let's check in with the Wizard of Odds.
Is he right about that, his notion of how he's doing in Pennsylvania, that "If the election was today, I'd win in North Carolina, I'm up in Ohio," you know, "Obviously, I'm up in Florida?"
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER & ANALYST: Ha! You can look at my facial expressions.
[21:25:00]
We could look at the average of polls there in those states. And the fact is, is he's losing in all of them, right? He's losing in Pennsylvania. He's losing in Florida. He's losing in Wisconsin. He's losing just across the board in the six closest states that he won in 2016.
Now obviously, in North Carolina, those races are much closer, right? They're within the margin of error. But Michigan and Wisconsin, he has clear leads - Biden has clear leads right now.
CUOMO: All right. There have been 50 polls in Pennsylvania that we appreciate, here at CNN, as legitimate. How many have had Trump leading?
ENTEN: Yes, this is exactly right.
I went back and looked at the non-partisan polls, in Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin, in Michigan. And if you add those states to the Clinton states that she won four years ago, that gets Joe Biden over 270 electoral votes.
Trump ahead in any of them, zero. Zero pollsters in the State of Pennsylvania have found Joe Biden ahead. In Michigan, it's just two. In Wisconsin, it's just one.
And those are polls that I don't necessarily trust all that much, to be perfectly honest with you. If you look at just the pure number of polls that have been taken in these places, non-partisan polls, I just don't really understand.
And if the Trump campaign really wants to say, "Oh, in fact we're out there," then they can publish their partisan polls. We'd at least get a look at them. Otherwise, it's just like a lot of the things that Trump says. There's just no proof for it anywhere.
CUOMO: Zero have found Trump ahead, as we just showed on the slide there. OK, thank you for that point.
Now, two other things. One, White working-class voters, what do we know about how Trump is doing with them, in battleground states? And what kind of notion do you have as to why there's slippage?
ENTEN: Yes, so if we could jump ahead to the slide, look at Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, basically take an average of them, right?
And what we saw, back in 2016, was Trump won amongst those voters, in those states, by 21 points. Now, that's dropped down to 11 percentage points. So, he's still ahead. But the fact is when you're only winning those states by a point or less, you need to be able to hold onto your base.
Now, here is what I think the key sort of factor is. It's really White women, White non-college women, who have been slipping away, and that is part of a larger discussion, in which Donald Trump has really just lost any of the ground that he held with White women. If you look at White women overall, he's trailing there. He won that group in 2016. And we're seeing that leak into the non-college White women as well.
CUOMO: I skipped over the "Even if Biden doesn't win Florida, he could still win," because I reject the premise. I think if you lose Florida, means something about what's happening in the macro electorate.
So cobbling together the states is not just math for me, because the methodology matters. If Biden loses Florida, we have a very long night, that night, and probably for two days or three days afterwards, so we'll deal with that when we get closer.
But Harry, thank you very much, for making the picture a little bit more clearer. Here we are, 14 days out. Thanks, Wiz.
ENTEN: My pleasure, my friend.
CUOMO: All right.
So, our next guest worked alongside Donald Trump before there was even a Trump Tower, OK? Her name is Barbara Res. And she is sharing story after story about what she says was a man full of racism that there's no question for her that the uglier assessments of his character and what he's about are accurate in her experience.
18 years of life in Trump-world, she's going to make the case, she's going to deal with the shots against her, and her case, next.
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[21:30:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: "Donald Trump didn't want people to know that African-Americans helped build Trump Tower. He didn't want them hanging out in the lobby because people were going to come in there, looking to buy million- dollar condos."
Those are just a couple of the scathing allegations from Barbara Res. And she would know. She worked for Trump, for nearly two decades, including as an Executive Vice President for the Trump Organization. Her new book, out today, is called "Tower of Lies."
Barbara, welcome to PRIME TIME.
BARBARA RES, FORMER EXECUTIVE VP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION, AUTHOR, "TOWER OF LIES": Thank you, it's my pleasure.
CUOMO: Should have written it sooner, should have written it 40 years ago. What are you doing it now for?
RES: Yes. Well better late than never, right? I think it's very important that any information, anything anyone can do, should be done right now, to see if we can stop this man from getting reelected. And this is what I can do. I can share my information and my stories.
CUOMO: Trump says time and again, "I'm not a bigot. I love Black people. I see everybody the same." You don't buy it?
RES: No. I mean, you know, the funny thing is that there are so few people that he sees the same. He discriminates for different reasons against most of us.
But with the Black people, that was very, very bad, very telling of him to, to call us over, myself and the project manager, then he saw a Black man, working on the deck, the concrete deck, and he said, "Get him off of there. I don't want people to thinking Blacks are building Trump Tower." That was shocking to me, actually.
CUOMO: Is it true that the President or then-citizen Trump had a desire to only have Jewish people do the accounting, and count his numbers, and that even when he had an African-American man, who was distinguishing himself, in the casino businesses, as a bean counter, as a money guy, he said, "No, no, no, I want Jews counting my money?" Is that true?
RES: It sounds like it might be true. It sounds very true. But that was from someone else's book.
CUOMO: OK.
RES: But I do - I do think that. It sounds like him.
CUOMO: Now, you say, "Hey, it doesn't matter that I worked for him a long time ago, it's the same." I don't think that's the problem. The problem - the hurdle for you is, if he was so bad, why did you work for him for so long?
RES: Yes, people ask me that all the time.
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First of all, he wasn't as bad then as he is now. I mean, the seeds were there. And that's what my book is about, it's sort of like transitioning you from, back in the 1980s, through you know, today.
And he was - he did do things that were racist. He did many things that were sexist.
But you got to look at it from my point of view. I was a woman engineer working in the construction development business. There weren't a lot of places for me to go. And the people weren't really very different back then.
I was unhappy with the incident with the young architectural student in the lobby. I was very unhappy with that and I--
CUOMO: You're talking about when you brought someone in for a job, and they were Black, and he said, "No, no, no, I don't want them coming in. I don't even want them in the lobby, when I got people in here buying expensive places?"
RES: Yes. Actually, he saw the man in the lobby, and told me, "Don't ever do that again. I don't want - I don't want Black kids," he called him a kid, he was probably 20, "Sitting in the lobby, where people are coming in to build multi-million dollar apartments."
But I thought to myself then, and more so now, actually, as I go over this, what would I have done, if I wanted to hire the young man?
See, he wasn't my first choice. He just - he was - there were others that I wanted to use above - preferred over him. And I'm back and forth over it. I'm not - I'm not so sure. But I think I might have hired him. I think I probably would have taken down on that one.
CUOMO: And I know you say in the book, because look, another obvious challenge to the theory is, if he's such a sexist, how come it didn't affect you? You say you were the exception, not the rule.
But I think the big thing for people to glean from the book is that his supporters love him and see him in a way that's not really about love. It's really the wrong word. Identity. He gets who they are. He understands them--
RES: Right.
CUOMO: --in a way that these other politicians don't. You say that that's his greatest con. How so?
RES: Well he's - since way back, when in '78, when I started working on the Hyatt, he'd go around with the contractors, and he'd glad hand them, and he put his thumb on their back, "How are you doing? What do you think of my building? Isn't this great? Blah, blah, blah," he had no respect for them whatsoever.
He just didn't - he knew how to play it, and he knew that that would make him popular, and that's what he thought he needed to do.
But I'll tell you a story that's in the book, which is a good story, really. When you finish a project, you have a big celebration. It's called a topping up party. It's actually when you finish the structure. And everyone gets together and there's a big--
CUOMO: It's usually for the crew.
RES: Excuse me?
Well, that's the point, that's my story.
CUOMO: Oh.
RES: So, when we told Donald, we had to plan this, he was "Oh, great! You know, we're going to do this. We're going to do that. It's going to be great, great, great, great, great."
And, at some point in time, we mentioned the men, you know, it's going to be hard to pull together with the men, you know, because we had so many. And Trump said, "What are you talking about? I don't want them there." It was like, "But this - Donald, this is for the men." It was all men at the time, and it still is, not for the politicians and the owners and stuff, you know. And it took us a long time to get him to actually, you know, "Well can't we just have the foremen? Do we have to have the men? You know, I'm going to have champagne here, and caviar and, you know, this is not for construction workers."
And it was very, very telling to me because it just - it was not even a thought to him. He had absolutely no regard for these people that were building this building for him. No regard at all.
CUOMO: Barbara Res, interesting book! Especially now, people want to know what's going on. The "Tower of Lies" is the book. If you want to know, read. Barbara Res, thank you for talking to me about it tonight, best of health to you and the family.
RES: Thank you, Chris, good night.
CUOMO: All right.
Now, the word "Deplorable," when Hillary Clinton used it in that election, boy, did it zero in on the sense of humiliation, and being looked down on, and this division between the us and them, the elites and the workers. When Hillary Clinton did that, it was a big deal. And it hurt a lot of people. Now they wear it as a badge of honor.
I want you to ride in a dune buggy with Trump's higher-earning supporters. It sheds light on why they vote the way they vote. This is not about those scrapping to get by. Why are they voting for him? What does it mean? What does he mean? Next.
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CUOMO: Trump boat parades. I've seen them. Car caravans? All over where I live.
Dune buggy rallies, what's behind their support? CNN's Elle Reeve took a ride with a group to find out.
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MIKE BUCK, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I like alpha males. I think President Trump is an alpha male. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whenever I watch the news, it seems like they're bagging on Trump. They make it sound like nobody's going to vote for him. So, we feel like we all need to get together, just to show people, that "Hey, there are people that are going to vote for him."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the "Dunes & Deplorables Let Freedom Ride" Trump rally protest. It was unfurling a 30 foot by 50 foot American flag, having everybody gather around, play the national anthem, and just be able to be with a bunch of friends and family.
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unofficial Trump events like this have been happening all over the country. Boat parades, car caravans, bike parades. What attendees have in common is disposable income to spend on fun.
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While Trump's working-class supporters have gotten lots of attention, in 2016, a third of his voters made more than $100,000 a year. In fact, support for Trump is particularly strong among White voters, who have high incomes for their area, the locally rich.
PAUL VELUSCEK, TRUMP SUPPORTER: The people on the Left that really think we're deplorable think we're deplorable.
If hanging out with families, bringing your kids out, and having a good time, is deplorable, then I guess we'll take it.
REEVE (voice-over): I went for a ride in the dunes with Eric Nelson, who has been riding motorcycle since he was 14.
REEVE (on camera): Ah!
REEVE (voice-over): Eric drove two hours to come to the rally.
ERIC NELSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hopefully, you heard her scream.
REEVE (on camera): Yes. That's what the mic is for.
NELSON: The reason we're here supporting Trump is because we believe that Trump will help us to keep the money that we make, and let us be able to work as hard as we want, and not give our money away.
People like Nancy Pelosi can get her fundings through - that's given money to people that aren't willing to work for it. I worked for it all my life. I had to work to put myself through college, and so I can get a job, and do what I enjoy, which is an activity like this, and spend $15,000, $20,000 on toys because I choose to.
VELUSCEK: He really is for your hard-working people. Do I think he's racist? No. I think he's racist against lazy people.
REEVE (voice-over): The rally was mostly men. That's no surprise, given national polls. Men are much more likely to support Trump than women. And what these men said they liked about Trump was that he's a guy who is just like them. NELSON: He's not a politician. He's one of us. Yes, he is one of us on steroids, because he runs a great big business and, makes a lot more money than we do.
BUCK: He can be crass. But we didn't hire him as a President. We hired him because he was a businessperson, and that's what America needed, because our country was starting to tank.
REEVE (on camera): But isn't part of his job being like a moral leader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe so.
REEVE (on camera): You don't think so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. He says things that upsets people and we just don't care. And we think he's helping all those people because they don't fully understand what's going on.
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CUOMO: It's very interesting. Elle Reeve joins us now. Thank you for taking the time to do the piece, and bringing it to us. This took place in Oregon, Blue state.
REEVE: Yes.
CUOMO: But it's such a great window into feel versus fact. They feel Trump is one of them, even though he doesn't check any of the boxes that the guy who was talking to you, checked in his own life.
You think that there is a swell of support even in a Blue state like Oregon that the polls are not catching?
REEVE: Well, the people who were at the rally sure think so. But there's no evidence of that. And Oregon is just like many states, in the rest of the country, where a lot of more liberal people are packed in the cities, and out in the country, people are a lot more conservative.
CUOMO: The idea of what he can do for you versus who he is, and what he is about, what do you think about that split?
REEVE: Oh, I think it's a combination of both. I think they see part of their identity as being businessmen, as being successful, as being the product of hard work, and the power of their own determination. And they think Donald Trump will protect that. They don't like everything, they say, that he says, but they say that he's real.
CUOMO: It's amazing, you know, especially for business owners. If they didn't have the money behind them that Trump had, they'd be out of business, you know?
His bankruptcies were all rolled by his pop. Otherwise, he would have never been able to stay in business. It's so funny that they reward in him what they would never respect in somebody who actually does what they do.
Elle Reeve, I love how you get inside these situations, and you bring such an authentic nature of it, so that the audience can absorb it for what it really is. Thank you very much. Take care.
REEVE: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right.
The thin blue line, you know what that is, and now even thinner, and a family smaller because of Coronavirus. The numbers are on the rise. You have to remind yourself constantly of what it can mean for your family.
The Roberts family wants you to know what that's like up close.
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CUOMO: If a message can be made more powerful, because of the messenger, then this is going to be really powerful for you.
COVID killed police officer Charles "Rob" Roberts. His town, that you see in there, Glen Ridge, New Jersey, they showed up saluting him from the street, as the hero that he is.
Now, his widow and children are dealing with their pain, but they want to put purpose to it, and they're here tonight. Alice Roberts, along with her kids, Shea, Natalie, and Gavin.
Thank you, all, so much for doing this. I know this isn't easy. And I have to tell you, I look at you guys, and I think there but for the grace because I see my own family. You got 16, 13, and 11?
ALICE ROBERTS, HUSBAND DIED OF COVID-19: Yes.
CUOMO: I got the same thing within a year in my own family.
A. ROBERTS: Now 12.
CUOMO: And I am so sorry to meet you under these situations. But I hope you know that your father was so respected for what he did, your father, and your husband, and that he means everything that's good about policing and caring about your community, and I hope you carry that with you, because I know that's how your community feels around you. Now--
A. ROBERTS: That's true, thank you.
CUOMO: No. Thank you, thank you for doing this, Alison (ph). Why is it important for you to come and tell people about how just sideswiped you guys got by this?
A. ROBERTS: I think when you hear numbers, it doesn't really seem real to a lot of people. Some people don't know anyone who's died of COVID, and they see the statistics, and it just doesn't even sink in.
And if you're getting your news, just from one source, and you think, that things are exaggerated or whatever, and I just want people to know that there isn't an exaggeration, and we're a real family, and we're really grieving, and it really happened to us.
CUOMO: And I mean I'm showing a picture of your husband, your father, right now, strong, in-shape, vital.
Everybody thinks it's the old and people with comorbidity, you know, they had something else that was really bad those are the only people who get taken.
Not your husband!
A. ROBERTS: Right. I mean we even had the conversation with him before he was sick, we were saying, "Well what if he gets it?" We all kind of went through it. We were like, "So what if he gets it? He'll be fine," like that's not going to be a problem. I remember having that conversation with the kids and him.
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And it's important to me to be here. I just wanted to say because I know so many people haven't had the time to grieve for their lost ones. And they - their voices haven't been heard. So, I think having our voices be heard is super-important to represent the hundreds of thousands who have died.
CUOMO: Did they give you any good reason for what happened? I mean, one minute he was dealing with symptoms. He didn't even know what it was. Then he collapsed. He went in. They say that they got the COVID, but it had already affected his body in a way that he couldn't recover? How'd you make sense of that?
A. ROBERTS: Yes, so he started off at the community hospital, and then within two days, we got him transferred to the city, to a world- renowned brain specialist.
And we knew that, I mean, we knew the first real issue was the brain healing, and there had been a lot of hope during the approximately three weeks that he was there. There were really positive brain waves, but then that hope started to decrease as the days went on. But he didn't even know he had COVID. We all just sort of acted as
though he probably had it. He took precautions. He was super-careful. He was staying in the third floor to not affect the rest of us. But he did not have a positive test. His first test was mislabeled.
CUOMO: How you doing?
A. ROBERTS: I guess I'm just moving forward.
CUOMO: You got the kids.
A. ROBERTS: I mean, we're still--
CUOMO: You got family.
A. ROBERTS: --we're still need to be - yes, we're still busy with school, of course, and they're playing sports. So, I'm busy driving a lot, going to a lot of places, driving them to sports really, that's about it. And the girls--
CUOMO: How's your heart?
A. ROBERTS: Sorry?
CUOMO: How's your heart?
A. ROBERTS: My heart? It's, I guess, broken. I don't really stop to think about myself very much.
CUOMO: A mother is always about the others.
A. ROBERTS: Right.
CUOMO: And I - I know we can all respect and appreciate that.
Little man, you were given a gift, I'm told, Gavin, when your - the guys at the - on the Force, wanted to give you your father's police locker, after going to collect his things. What do you want people to know about your Pop?
GAVIN ROBERTS, FATHER DIED OF COVID-19: That he was, like, a great man and that he was very kind and caring. And, yes.
CUOMO: There's nothing better for a dad to be than kind. And boy was he lucky to have the three of you.
Now, I know that also, Alice, you're coming out because this election matters to you now. What is it - not that it didn't matter before - but why do you want to take the time, and come out, with all you're dealing with, to say to people, "You got to vote," why?
A. ROBERTS: So I've taken a little time off. I felt that I had to. I haven't been off since I was 21. And I felt that we need now more than ever a leader of our country, who will lead by example, and by love and respect, and that's not what we're seeing right now. Right before pandemic happened, we went to Hyde Park, and we visited Franklin Roosevelt's house, and he's a good reminder of how a person can lead through pretty hard times. So, it's really important to me, to really fight the good fight, and to get people out there to vote.
And when the President became sick, and then his actions after his sickness, I think those showed his true colors. And I think his true colors aren't very - aren't very pure or good, and that's not who I want leading our country, and that's not who I want my children emulating.
CUOMO: Well, I think it's - you deserve an audience.
A. ROBERTS: Thank you.
CUOMO: And I am very privileged to have you on this show. And that doesn't just go for your mom, Shea, Natalie, Gavin, I know this is hard. And I just hope you understand how many people want to put their arms around you.
And I hope, with time, you just remember your father for all the beautiful things he was in your life, and how he died will become less a part of the memory, and how he lived will become more and more, I promise you that. I've been through it, myself, not at your age, but losing a parent is always the same.
And you'll always have a friend here. If you need anything, once we're allowed to have guests again, if you ever want to come, if there's anything we can do, we're just a call away. And, Alice, God bless, the offer goes for you as well. Thank you for speaking to others.
A. ROBERTS: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: Even in a time of pain, putting purpose to it. Thank you very much.
A. ROBERTS: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right. Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Man!
CUOMO: There but for the grace, brother. I mean you know my family very well.
LEMON: What a family.
