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Cuomo Prime Time

Thanksgiving Eve Marks Deadliest Day of Pandemic Since May; Trump Pushes Conspiracy Theories By Speakerphone in PA; Joe Biden Urges Unity in Thanksgiving Speech; Joe Biden: In America, We Have Full, Fair and Free Elections and Then Honor the Results; Trump Pardons Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired November 25, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for that report tonight, appreciate it, Happy Thanksgiving. I remind you, don't miss "Full Circle" Anderson's digital news show; you can catch it streaming at 6:00 pm Eastern at cnn.com/fullcircle or watch it there and on the CNN app at any time on-demand. The news continues, so let's hand it over to Chris for Cuomo Prime Time.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Happy Thanksgiving, you Turkey. I gave you that tie and it still looks better on you.

BERMAN: You did.

CUOMO: JB, I love you. All the best to you and the family, Happy Thanksgiving, brother. I'm Chris Cuomo and welcome to "Prime Time". Let's talk Turkey. Very few, if any, have it easy right now. Too many are sick, starving and suffering.

This reality should make this Thanksgiving really more profound, more resonant for those who have avoided that kind of COVID born crisis. Our tables and Turkeys may be smaller. But be thankful, if you are not one of the 50 million going hungry. We have got more Americans on food lines than at any time since the "Great Depression".

I keep telling you this because our Congress keeps not doing anything about it. Now, as for me, I have more to be thankful for than ever, certainly more than most. I had COVID, as you know, worst illness of my life. But I was lucky. And while I'm not all I was before I got sick, I'm more than fine, and that brings profound gratitude because I have talked to too many families whose loved ones were nowhere near as lucky.

My prayer is that the loved ones of the more than 260,000 stolen by this sickness not only find strength in family, but that they also may find some solace. If we are able to find solidarity in fighting COVID, then maybe they will get to see others spared their pain. Now, our President-elect agrees with that and says he'll lead the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need to remember we're at war with a virus, not with one another, not with each other. This is the moment where we need to steel our spines, redouble our efforts and recommit ourselves to the fight. I commit to you I will use all of those powers to lead a national coordinated response.

But, the federal government can't do this alone. None of these steps we're asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. Hang on, don't let yourself surrender to the fatigue, which I understand it is real fatigue. I know we can and we will beat this virus. America is not going to lose this war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Well, look, his urgency is aided by the reality. This today has been the deadliest day of this pandemic since May. We now have the most people hospitalized ever. Ironically, this virus is raging most now in parts of the country that were won by President Trump, who lost in large part because he all but ignored the pandemic.

Yes, times are screwy, they're confusing. But if you needed proof beyond the rejection of a record 80 million plus voters rejecting Trump, just look at how he's spending his time while still president. He talks about the record DOW, but not about the record deaths.

He talks up lies about the election as he ignores the pain of the pandemic. He hasn't even given you any guidance on the right way to handle this holiday. Why would a president leave that to others? The guidance from his own office by the way encourages people to crowd into places of worship this weekend and thank God.

Let me tell you what you should already know. You crowd into places of worship, and you will have to pray for all the people you may get sick or be sickened by. Jesus never asked anyone to show their faith by hurting others. And then Trump says he will never stop fighting for you.

How is he fighting for all of you who voted for him by ignoring COVID case exposure, by ignoring the need for relief? Instead of spending time on that, wasting time trying to get Trumpers in the Pennsylvania legislature to steal the election?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This election has to be turned around because we won Pennsylvania by a lot and we won all of these swing states by a lot. All you have to do is take a look at the numbers at 10 o' clock in the evening, when everybody thought the election was virtually over, and then very weird things happened.

This election was lost by the Democrats. They cheated. It was a fraudulent election. You have to turn the election over because there is no doubt we have all the evidence. We have all the affidavits. We have everything. All we need is to have some judge listen to it properly without having a political opinion or having another kind of a problem, because we have everything. And by the way, the evidence is pouring in now as we speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Last time I heard a voice like that spouting nonsense like that with a screen that was lit up like that, it was poltergeist, and this is just as scary. All that evidence that's pouring in, like he said, he would be right if he was talking about the evidence that COVID is killing us.

[21:05:00]

He thinks a vaccine that is months away for the many is more than enough to do on his watch. And as for all that evidence of mass voter fraud, they're nodding their heads, yes, yes, yes. Then why don't they offer some? At least 30 cases lost since Election Day, all for the same reason, conservative judges, liberal judges, conservative states, liberal states; no proof.

Today, more nothing, unsworn witnesses making claims of fraud that they suspected or largely heard about. All those Trumpers in power think about it, all those different electives in states where he lost, swing states, and yet none of them came forward with anything real.

What does that tell you? You know who knows the answer? Rudy Giuliani. He stopped sweating long enough to make the perfect point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: I know crooks really well. You give them an inch and they take a mile, and you give them a mile and they take your whole country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Says the man in the shadows. He is describing what he and the Trumpers are trying to do, claw their way into chaos, that maybe they can continue Trump's reign of error. Biden on the other hand is taking a different path.

Now, look, he has a lot to prove in coming weeks and months. But one thing that we already know is he's not going to spend his time tearing down the very institutions that we depend on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Let's be thankful for democracy itself. In the middle of a pandemic, more people voted this year than have ever voted in the history of the United States of America. Our democracy was tested this year.

And what we learned is this. The people of this nation are up to the task. In America, we have full and fair and free elections, and then we honor the results. The people of this nation and the laws of the land won't stand for anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Contrast that with the reality that he's coming into. We have never had a president act more like a Russian agent causing discord and division than Trump. Again, I don't know what Biden is going to be able to do, but I for one am thankful to hear that at least he will try to be better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I believe that this grim season of division, demonization is going to give way to a year of light and immunity. Why do I think so? Because America is a nation not of adversaries but of neighbors, not of limitations but of possibilities, not of dreams deferred but of dreams realized.

This is our moment, ours together to write a newer, bolder, more compassionate chapter in the life of the nation. The work ahead is not going to be easy. It will not be quick.

You want solutions not shouting. Reason, not hyper partisanship. Light, not heat. You want us to hear one another again. See one another again. Respect one another again. You want Democrats and Republicans and independents to come together and work together. And that, my friends, is what I'm determined to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He's determined. But it takes two to tango. What about the re- Trumplicans? The Republi-can'ts? Can they become Republi-cans again and work with Democrats on anything? We haven't seen it in a very long time.

Let's take the state of play to the Professor, Ron Brownstein, and the one and only Anthony Scaramucci. So Anthony, you are hearing the same thing that I am, that Trump was being told, hey, what you are doing here is starting to be bad for the brand. How do you square that he's worried about being bad for his brand?

I would argue this is his brand, but with what they did today, coming out of the shadows saying everything is terrible, having proof of none of it.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes, he doesn't think it is bad for his brand; he's pushing back on all of those people. It's bad for their brand, but for President Trump it's not bad in his mind for his brand, because he thinks he's got 25 million to 75 million people that are going to follow him around the country after he leaves the White House.

And that's why he's doubling and tripling down on this nonsense, Chris. They like it. It's a Duraflame log for conspiracies and he's a Duraflame log.

CUOMO: That's the best you got, he's a Duraflame log? That's the best you got, Trump is a Duraflame log?

SCARAMUCCI: I got more. I was waiting to the - I was waiting until I spoke again, before I said happy Thanksgiving to you. I got more in my powder keg.

CUOMO: I'll give you a chance to save it.

[21:10:00]

But let me just go to Ron for a second, so you can gather your thoughts. Duraflame log, a ball of wax? Ron?

RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: WPIX Yule Log.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Remember that? That thing never stops burning.

SCARAMUCCI: Ron, it burns forever. That's the point.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: Thanks for the assist.

CUOMO: I think Scaramucci was one of those guys - no, he's not helping you. I think Scaramucci was one of the guys who called into WPIX and used to go picks, picks, picks, picks, trying to shoot them down. Those little spaceships that they used to have on--

BROWNSTEIN: I was a Met fan. I was watching WWOR - I was a Met fan, I was watching Channel 9.

CUOMO: So back to business. Ron, let's talk demographics for a second. The irony here is that the people who are being hit hardest economically and in terms of health with COVID are places that voted more for Trump. Now, what does that mean/mean for Biden's ability to actually do something for them and expand his own reach?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. I mean, the mold in terms of public perception of this was set at the beginning, when it was concentrated most heavily in blue cities and places that had greater density.

But it's clearly spread all over the country now and it is ravaging what we call Trump country. As you say, it does give Biden an opportunity to deliver for those places in a way that the president is ignoring.

I mean, the challenge is going to be to get even Republicans who represent places that are being hard hit to participate in the solution. I was thinking, Chris, this is the greatest domestic challenge we have faced in America, I believe, since Pearl Harbor.

And can you imagine if on, say, December 8 or December 9, 1941 that the Republican leader in the Senate at the time who was Charles McNary of Oregon got up and said, my principal goal in responding to this is to ensure that Republicans win back the Congress in 1942 and Franklin Roosevelt is defeated in 1944.

Mitch McConnell has been such a craven partisan that we kind of give him a pass on refusing to even acknowledge that the election has been decided and giving no signal that he's going to work with President- elect Biden on this challenge.

But the fact is history will be looking at him, and can he rise above his partisan past to acknowledge that we are facing a true crisis as a country and that it requires all hands on deck to respond.

CUOMO: Dumpster fire is what you should have gone, with not Duraflame log. You should have said dumpster fire. So what do you think of Ron's point?

SCARAMUCCI: Everybody uses dumpster fire.

CUOMO: That's because Duraflame sucks, that's why, nobody uses Duraflame.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: All right. I was testing it to see if people did like it in my focus group. Take it easy.

CUOMO: Nobody liked it. Let's talk to the wife.

SCARAMUCCI: I do like what Ron is saying. I like the point of what he's saying, and I'm not exactly sure what Senator McConnell was doing behind the scenes. I want to - I want to hope and pray that they're going to return to some level of operation in the government.

And if he pulls the Obama stunt, where he only wants him to serve for four years, that is going to be a catastrophe for the country in an hour of our need. So I do agree with Ron's saying. I guess the problem for Mitch McConnell is he's worried about those 74 million people, guys that voted for President Trump.

He's not exactly sure what to do with those people and how he should handle those people in the aftermath of Trump's departure.

CUOMO: I mean, look, the scary signal to me, Ron, what is your take on this, is that you have got these Republi-cant's. You know the Rubios, the Cruzs, the Crenshaws, these guys who are not calling him president-elect, saying we got to let this play out. They know there is no proof. I mean, that does not bode well for what will happen even after this ends, does it, because it is an ugly pivot for them--

BROWNSTEIN: No, it won't.

CUOMO: --because it is an ugly pivot for them if they try to become straight.

BROWNSTEIN: And not only that, Chris, but by allowing and abetting the President Trump's baseless claims of fraud, and by allowing this idea to seep in among the Republican Party, 75 to 80 percent of Republicans in poll now are saying they believe the election was stolen, which is a kind of striking commentary of where we are in this country. By allowing that to happen, they are essentially ensuring that he remains the dominant force in the party.

He will be able to leave office, and most Republicans will believe he didn't lose. It wasn't like he led them into a dead-end where he is going to lose by almost 7 million votes. He actually won. And it was - he's only leaving because it was stolen from him.

And that I think ensures that they will remain under his shadow, under his thumb and by refusing to confront him now as throughout his presidency, I mean, you don't get to the kind of egregious chewing up of the rule of law that we saw like today with departing of Michael Flynn in a single day.

It only happens because each step of the way Republicans have refused to confront him, have instead abetted him (inaudible) and they are basically guaranteeing more of this, more of him looming over them by their refusal to confront him now as he peddles this kind of stab in the back theory that they are going to be nursing for the next four years.

CUOMO: Anthony, think we are going to get more of the same?

SCARAMUCCI: I'm going to take the other side of Ron on this one.

[21:15:00]

I actually think on January 21, they're going to slice his throat metaphorically and they're going to push him out to pasture as hard as possible, because you have all these young Republicans that want to run for president, and Mitch McConnell knows that once he's out of power, he has to dispatch him very quickly.

And by the way, Chris, you know the president's personality. I know it very well, the minute he leaves that stage and it is no longer about him, he's not campaigning for other people. He's not going to go to diminishing crowd sized rallies for himself.

And the bloom will be off the rose and he'll be 75 years old. So I see this thing ending way more abruptly than other people do, so I'm going to take the other side of that one.

BROWNSTEIN: He may be more comfortable campaigning against than for. I mean, in other words, trying to intimidate Republicans any time they try to set a different direction. And by allowing his hold on the party to remain so strong, I think they are increasing their risk of that.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: But, remember, he's not going to be able to run until 2024. Trust me, I know the guy. It's got to be 100 percent about him, 100 percent of the time. In the next few years, it really won't be and he'll lose interest. That's just the nature of his personality.

CUOMO: So Anthony, you don't think he runs in 2024? SCARAMUCCI: 0.0 percent chance that he runs in 2024. He will have no standing in the party. The revisionist history, people will kick in. He lost this thing by 6 or 7 million votes, five states flipped as a result of his incompetence, and he's not going to have a chance to run.

And you have all of these new players that are going to be entering this space, and they're going to be demolishing him. Once he's weakened and out of office, Chris, they are going to undermine and demolish him.

CUOMO: I don't know, very few horror movies don't have a sequel. Ron, what do you think?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, he is the Freddie Krueger of American politics.

CUOMO: No, you already called him a Duraflame - cut his throat, push him out the pasture. How do you push a guy out to pasture once you cut his throat? Anyway go ahead, Ron, last word to you.

BROWNSTEIN: I'll just say--

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: Ron, be careful, he's like an English teacher now; he is like an English teacher on the show now.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: I also think it will be hard for him to run in the end, but I do think he's going to dangle that possibility and I do think he will try to intimidate Republicans. And we have to kind of deal with - everybody has been assuming that so many Republicans have been going along with him on this kind of ridiculous fraud claims post election because they are afraid of him.

You have to allow the possibility that a fair number of them maybe perfectly OK if he could have found a way to steal the election with him doing so. And again, that is an ominous signal for what the next decade may bring.

CUOMO: Professor Brownstein, always grateful, thankful for you, best to you and the family.

BROWNSTEIN: Happy holidays and Happy Thanksgiving.

CUOMO: And Mr. Mixed Metaphor, Anthony Scaramucci, you are as handsome as you are helpful. Thank you very much. All love to you and the family. Appreciate you guys, especially the day before Thanksgiving.

SCARAMUCCI: Happy Thanksgiving, guys.

CUOMO: All the best. I'm thankful for you both. All right, so look, what do we see with what Trump is doing right now?

Those were good political points of analyses by two people who understand the game. I see it all different, all right. I don't see the politics in it. I see what Trump is doing now is just running rough over the rule of law.

That's what he's doing. That's what he does. He's not about law and order, OK. His law is that he gets to order what reality is going to be. When it doesn't happen, he kills everybody. And if you shut your mouth and act out of fealty to him, then he might take care of you. Witness Michael Flynn, witness Roger Stone, right?

Roger Stone got his sentence commuted. Michael Flynn today got a complete pardon. Why? He fought it. He shut his mouth. He never said anything about Trump. So now I want to bring in, in the next block, a man who oversaw the Russia investigation. He knows the Flynn case. Andrew McCabe will remind what this case was and wasn't and what this pardon means, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The very first Trumper fired for shady behavior was former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. Trump said he was fired for lying about contacts with Russia. Now, almost four years later, Flynn is getting rewarded for doing exactly that, getting a "full pardon".

The crime was lying about contacts with Russia. Flynn pleaded guilty. Didn't want to plead guilty. He wanted to work with Mueller. He didn't want to work with Mueller. It was confusing. That's why we have someone who knows the case intimately, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, the best to you and the family for Thanksgiving. I am thankful for you.

I'm assuming he can't hear me. Otherwise, he is cold-blooded. Nope, Andrew is frozen. We'll get him back. That would have been funny if he weren't frozen. You want me to take a break and then we'll get him on camera and we'll come right back. It would have been funny, though, if he weren't frozen. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Andrew McCabe, welcome back. I thanked you. I thought that you were icing me, but now we're past it. Let me ask you this. What is the significance of this pardon of Michael Flynn?

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: It's incredibly significant, Chris. I think, first and foremost, this is the president's latest attempt to cut the left out from underneath the Special Counsel investigation.

Look, he rightfully believes that all of the conclusions of our investigation and the Special Counsel investigation undermine the legitimacy of his win in 2016, so he has done everything he possibly can to eliminate and eradicate the successes and the achievements of that investigation. So I think that's the most important thing that's happening here.

CUOMO: Why Flynn, when he says he fired Flynn for lying about Russia, when Flynn cooperated with Mueller?

MCCABE: Because Flynn walked away from his cooperation with Mueller, right? So he walked away from cooperating with Mueller and essentially walked back to the open arms of the President of the United States. It's also important to note that Flynn never, never pointed the finger at the president or any of his close associates in a significant way.

I think the Mueller team probably expected at some point that they would be able to connect those conversations that Flynn was having with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, with having been directed by the president or others at Mar-a-Lago.

There are telephone records that substantiate connections between them at that time. But what we learned from the Special Counsel report was that those connections were never substantiated. Flynn didn't provide them with that information. And it's likely the president feels somewhat, you know, he's appreciative of that.

[21:30:00]

CUOMO: Well, those two different versions make a material difference. If they couldn't be substantiated, fine, then you know he had nothing to offer. If Flynn just didn't substantiate them, then doesn't the pardon come under a little bit of different scrutiny which is, is he getting pardoned as a bribe?

MCCABE: I think that's a perfectly reasonable question. It's not one that we can answer here on television tonight.

CUOMO: Will it be investigated or no? You think Biden doesn't want it, so forget it.

MCCABE: I'm not sure that Biden wants to go down the same path that essentially Trump went down, investigating political rivals and that sort of thing. But, there's one thing that I would point out to you, Chris, that I don't know that anyone has focused on this at this point.

Had General Flynn actually sat down with those FBI agents and told the truth, had simply come clean and said, "Yes, I talked to Sergey Kislyak. I was doing a little bit of pre-emptive diplomacy before I was officially in the seat. What's the big deal?" It is possible that the special counsel investigation would never have even taken place.

Had Flynn told the truth, it's likely that the case against him would have been closed which means that Trump would never have had to ask Jim Comey to close the case, which would have eliminated one of the - one of the significant motivations that we were acting on when we decided it was time to open a case against Trump himself.

So, if trump wants to see people who are individually, personally responsible for many of his problems, he should look no further than Michael Flynn.

CUOMO: Counter argument, Flynn was set up, guys came in, posed as his buddy to have him speak freely and they were looking to frame him the whole time. Had he known that, he would have acted completely differently and that's because you guys were out to get Trump anyway you could. It could have never been avoided and really Flynn is a casualty of overzealous investigation by political rivals.

MCCABE: Absurd, absolutely absurd, unfounded and a complete lie that has been perpetuated against me personally and many of my colleagues. Look, the fact is we were investigating Russia and what the Russians had done in possibly coordinating with the Trump campaign.

Now we looked at General Flynn as a person who was - who had historical connections with Russia at a very high level. And then all of a sudden, we found that Flynn was in fact in contact with the Russians, was asking them for favors which they were granting. And then, we learned that he was lying to the Vice President, to the President's Chief of Staff, to the White House Counsel about those interactions with Russia.

So, that is the - that's the triple crown of counterintelligence concerns and that's what we were investigating. Flynn had the opportunity to take the wind out of all of those sails had he simply told the truth. He didn't do that.

CUOMO: Why do you think he lied to them about the conversations he was having if they were conversations for them?

MCCABE: You know, I have asked myself that question a thousand times. I don't have a good answer for it. There was absolutely no reason for him to hide what he was engaged in. The agents actually prompted him in the interview with his own words, trying to get him to acknowledge the fact - the thing that he had said and done, and he clearly disassembled and avoided that.

So, I don't know. I think that's a question that only Flynn can answer.

CUOMO: Andrew McCabe, the best to you and the family for Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for you.

MCCABE: Thanks, Chris. Me as well (ph).

CUOMO: All right, let's take a break. When we come back, more news about what the president is trying to do to stop the new president from doing what we need to have him do, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:35:00]

CUOMO: The President summoned the Pennsylvania state lawmakers, Republicans really, to the White House tonight. Only, there is nothing they can do for him. It's the same way Trumpers like Congressman Mike Kelly are celebrating a legal victory in Pennsylvania, but is it a victory?

The so-called win delays the congressman's re-election. Does it mean anything for the presidential race? The governor already appointed the state's electors to Joe Biden. So, let's try to make some sense of who's celebrating and why in Pennsylvania. We have Attorney General Josh Shapiro.

JOSH SHAPIRO, ATTORNEY GENERAL, PENNSYLVANIA: Good to be with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you very much. Best to you and the family for Thanksgiving. Appreciate you taking the opportunities on this show in a time of tumult. So help me brother, what happened here? Kelly is saying we won, we're stopping the certification. Did you lose?

SHAPIRO: Chris man, I think you did your homework again as you always do and that is Congressman Kelly is doing nothing more than celebrating really a delay in his own election certification because what the judge expressly stated today was that any elections that have yet to be certified in Pennsylvania would effectively be put on hold until she could have a hearing.

Well, the presidential election has already been certified. Joe Biden was certified the winner yesterday and in fact, the governor has already appointed the 20 electors from Pennsylvania who will cast their votes for Joe Biden. The races that have yet to be certified like Congressman Mike Kelly's, I guess will be delayed now until this is heard.

Now late today, that same judge actually delayed the hearing because we appealed to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and said "Look, review this and hopefully overturn it because it was wrongly decided."

[21:40:00]

And so, that's where things stand. Mike Kelly can celebrate and suck up to the president all he wants, but he will not alter the will of the people here. The election has been certified and the electors will vote for Joe Biden.

CUOMO: If that's true, then why was that backlit bunch in the Pennsylvania legislators' hearing today trying to convince them to overturn the election and pick their own electors?

SHAPIRO: Man, that was just sad and it was sad that the President and Rudy came to sacred ground here in Pennsylvania and disrespected our democracy. I would point out that it was not a hearing, no one was under oath, and Rudy knows that if he has something to say that is truthful, he needs to say it in court. But he doesn't have anything to say and he can't lie in court when

he's under oath, and so he comes to this sham hearing, this sham gathering and speaks to a group of people who seemed to only want to be able to please the president. Ironically by the way, a group of people that voted for this law that Rudy and President Trump now are attacking.

CUOMO: Many people have been asking online, why didn't Rudy say the same things in court that he has been saying in the other places? You just outlined the difference; the difference is under oath and you get in trouble, if you say those kinds of things and can't back them up in court.

Did he put anything out today to substantiate the president's claim that the proof is pouring in right now?

SHAPIRO: Yes, absolutely not. I've heard the president and Rudy say that the proof is coming, the proof is pouring in. Look, Chris, they have filed 30-some odd lawsuits and not one of them have they won because they've introduced no evidence of fraud. No proof of any wrongdoing.

This was a safe and secure election and the will of the people was respected when the vote was certified yesterday and the electors appointed.

CUOMO: You know what--

SHAPIRO: This is nothing--

CUOMO: Go ahead, finish your point please.

SHAPIRO: I was just going to say I mean, this is nothing more than a sad last chapter for both Rudy and the Trump administration. It is sad the way they are attacking our democracy and it is sad the way frankly people are trying to follow them through this.

CUOMO: And look, pivoting from sad to salient, there's a bass-ackward notion to what's happening here. The people who would know if there were evidence pouring in of perfidy or any kind of lawlessness or irregularity that was malignant in Pennsylvania, it would be you and it would be those Republican lawmakers.

It should be in reverse. The Republican lawmakers should have been coming to the president and said look at what happened in our state, look at all this proof. This Democrat governor won't do anything about it. Look at this. They didn't have anything. Wouldn't you guys know better than Rudy?

SHAPIRO: No, they had no proof and they came and attacked a law that those lawmakers voted for and the process by the way, that helped them get re-elected. Furthermore, I take election fraud very seriously. I've prosecuted people for election fraud. There has been no evidence of any type of widespread election fraud here in Pennsylvania, any type of election fraud that would alter the outcome of this election. CUOMO: And Josh, the AG is referring to something that just you have

to remember how bizarre what Trump is alleging, that he got screwed. But down ballot in Pennsylvania, Congress and in the state seats, they did very well on the Republican side.

So only Trump got worked and now they are complaining to the legislators who were helped on the ballot that they want thrown out, it's just complete asinine but three-quarters of his party believes the election was rigged and that's why I got to keep having you on Josh, to keep re-informing people as to the facts. Last word to you.

SHAPIRO: Yes and look, I think that's the sad part here, that the sitting President of the United States came to Gettysburg and continued his assault on our democracy and that people are listening to that, that it's undermining faith in our institutions.

That says to all of us that we have work to do to rebuild and repair the damage that he has inflicted on this country. I take my role in that very seriously to tell the truth. I think everyone has to do their part to make sure that we rebuild from the destruction that he has brought to this democracy of ours.

[21:45:00]

CUOMO: As mama always says, I'll start healing once you stop stabbing me in the back. Attorney General John Shapiro, the best to you and your family for Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for the work you're doing in your state and for making your case here on our show.

SHAPIRO: Thank you, Chris. The best to you and yours.

CUOMO: All right, thank you. Now look, you know why I'm talking Turkey because it's Thanksgiving, and perspective on where we are right now, OK? A lot of people, millions and millions have made their way to different destinations. Yes, we've been warned by the CDC not to travel and yes, I understand why it's really hard/frustrating for people to follow it, and many are not going to.

We see long lines of people getting tested before the holiday. Yes, testing still sucks in too many places and takes too long. But we know what's the risk, so how do you balance these two things? I have somebody who will personally take you through their own experience of doing everything they could to do it right, next.

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[21:50:00]

CUOMO: Now, we'll talk cases then we'll talk common sense. 200,000 new cases each day. Oh, after November 3, I bet you COVID goes away. Yes. Where are the Trumpers now with that? Hospitalizations at a record new high; nearly 90,000. We should have never played politics with the pandemic, it is killing us. The death toll is spiraling.

We're turning the corner? Yes. Circle by circle, down into different circles of hell as we die more and more in more places. Today was the deadliest day in this pandemic since May. More than 2,100 lives lost right before the holidays. And despite this, I know millions of you can't take it anymore and you want to see family because you want the solace. I get it. I know I'm not supposed to say that.

I know we've been all given guides not to do it. I'm not seeing my mom; we're all going to have a smaller table - we're going to have to make something out of something that's not what we wanted to be and that's not easy. OK? And I know you know what to do. I know you know about masking, quarantining, testing, but there is more to why the CDC is so freaked out about family gatherings and small gatherings in particular, more than they are about restaurants or anything else.

And to give that instruction, I want to talk to you with somebody who did it the right way. OK? Now, the event was huge. The 99th birthday last month for his father, OK?

I mean how many of us are blessed to have one of those in our family, let alone one of our parents. I want to bring in Larry Goldsticker of Plano, Texas joining me now.

Congratulations to your father. Thank you for joining me.

LARRY GOLDSTICKER, RECOVERING FROM COVID-19: Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: Larry, I want to back into the situation. Now when you say, we tried to do it the right way, what did you do? Just so people can understand what boxes you checked.

GOLDSTICKER: So his birthday is in October. We started talking this summer and even had the conversation do we go or not, and we decided we were going to go. Everybody quarantined for two weeks beforehand.

My brother who's in San Francisco and his wife actually got tested beforehand. I drove instead of flying, 10-hour drive instead of flying to be safe. Everybody wore masks and we did everything we thought we were supposed to do until we got there.

And then, once we got there, we stayed together, the 12 of us, either in my dad's house or my brother's house. And we were mass moving together. The only time we went out, went out Saturday night for his birthday dinner, 12 of us in a private room, just us, waiters coming in and out. And at the end of the weekend, on Monday, pretty much everybody started showing symptoms of COVID.

CUOMO: How many of you got sick?

GOLDSTICKER: 12 out of 12 that were there. Plus I infected my wife who was not able to join us when I got back here, so 13.

CUOMO: You did everything that you could think of other than canceling the party and literally all of you got sick. Now, most importantly, dad, 99, he got it. Is he OK?

GOLDSTICKER: He is doing OK. He lost some weight. His - all of his strength is not back, but I'd say he's probably at 90 percent. So he's - we're - we're happy. CUOMO: And now, some people have had some different things. You were

talking a little bit long haul where you got better, but you're starting to have what you call phantom sensations, where you smell things that you're not supposed to. You know that's not phantom, the sense of smell, the olfactory correction, I'll put you in touch with some doctors who are studying this. It doesn't come back. I've seen it with my wife.

Things aren't phantoms. You just don't taste and smell the right way for a while because the small blood vessels are what control it. I'll take you all through that privately to help you get to a better place, but what do you want people to know about what you learned the hard way? Thank God, not that hard.

GOLDSTICKER: So I think my message is, it's not worth the risk. It's not just about you. When we were talking this summer, the conversation was do we want to be the sons who killed their father? Obviously not. If you're young and you're in college, it's not about you; it's about your parents, about your grandparents.

You just don't know where it is and so just - just be safe. Thanksgiving will come around next year. Christmas will come around next year. If we had it to do over again, I wouldn't do it. Bottom line.

CUOMO: People will hear this story Larry and say, no, no, no, they got lucky. They had the birthday party, people got sick, but they're OK. You're saying you got lucky and God forbid, it had gone another way, you'd never forgive yourself.

GOLDSTICKER: Absolutely and we got lucky but yet, I have one brother who had to spend a night in the hospital. I have this imaginary smell. My dad, again 99, you don't get your strength back right away. So, we do have side effects on going.

[21:55:00]

CUOMO: It is not easy even when you get what you think is a light case. I will privately talk to you more about what I understand about long haul and give you an expert to get in touch with.

But, thank you for putting this message out for people.

GOLDSTICKER: It's my pleasure.

CUOMO: A lot of people have a lot of good reasons to get together and it's important to understand the risks from somebody who did it very conscientiously, tried to do it right and it still went very wrong.

GOLDSTICKER: Thank you and yes, just be safe and healthy everybody. That's all I can say.

CUOMO: Have a good Thanksgiving. You've got plenty to be thankful for. I'm glad people are getting past it. The best to your pop, 99 years young, God bless. Larry Goldsticker, thank you.

GOLDSTICKER: Thank you very much. Bye.

CUOMO: All right. Gratitude in your attitude? It's easy for me. I'm thankful for all of you. Truly. I've never been given a gift that you guys have given me and my team to report for you. We do it knowing always that we report for you and to you.

And I know this is a tough year for too many for too many reasons. I have some words for you right now that I hope speak to you as they did to me. Thanksgiving indeed for all that we need and for all that we didn't that missed us, whether it be death, disease or destitute, if avoided that means grace kissed us.

And for all those hearing this, broke, beaten down or under medical care, the fact that you're alive means it could all be worse. Time may heal and the chance is real to grind for future glory. But never faster will grace reward us than if we add a new part to our story.

Together as ever as one. That is the way for us to fight. To better days and better ways if we're together morning, noon and night. That is my wish for all of you, that you understand even in a hard time that there is something to be grateful for and that we can give ourselves more opportunities to be happy if we do it together.

But from the bottom of my heart and I know I speak for the team, thank you. What a wild ride we have had together this year and we are far from over. A very happy, safe, if incomplete Thanksgiving to everyone. Another reason for us all to be thankful, the big show. CNN Tonight with its big star D. Lemon and there he is, and I must say this as part of your introduction, OK?

I have to say this, who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about? Shaft?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Oh, you got it wrong. When there's danger all about? Shaft.

CUOMO: I'm reading it. Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about? Shaft, right on.

LEMON: Yes, but you did it wrong.

CUOMO: Of course, I did. I'm a white guy from Queens (ph).

LEMON: You're supposed to have rhythm. Yes. Right on. Can you dig it?

CUOMO: You see this cat, Shaft? He's a bad mother.

LEMON: He's a bad mother. Shut your mouth.

CUOMO: Shut your mouth. How you doing you Turkey?

LEMON: It's Thanksgiving. I was going to say the biggest turkey I know until you gave that really nice warm greeting and then you came and then you talk smack about what's wrong. I used to wear turtlenecks all the time on TV and it's Thanksgiving eve. What's wrong with my turtleneck?

CUOMO: I didn't say anything's wrong with it.

LEMON: Little turtleneck, little camel hair.

CUOMO: You're a good-looking man and you dress well.

LEMON: You calling me, Shaft.

CUOMO: Yes, that's because that's how you're dressed, and you know it, and you know that's why you did it.

LEMON: He had a much bigger Afro. He wore leather and yes, he did wear a turtleneck.

CUOMO: All right, so there, I'm right.

LEMON: There you go. So couple of things I want to talk to about. Do you have a minute?

CUOMO: Yes, it's my show. Go ahead. My time is your time.

LEMON: I was so happy - I was so happy that you came back and you talked about what happened, this farce that went down in Pennsylvania today. There was a reason why it didn't happen in a court of law under oath because if they do it in a court of law and under oath as you so well stated and so did Mr. McCabe - I'm sorry, so did Mr. Shapiro, what does it mean?

CUOMO: Go to the host (ph).

LEMON: They could face consequences for lying.

CUOMO: Yes. Yes, contempt of court. You can't lie in a court of law.

LEMON: So why are people - why are people believing this? You know how many people - if you believe that this was all conspiracy theory, which it isn't, if you believe this conspiracy theories to be real, I should say, do you know how many people that you'd have to get together all at one time, not to go out and give up the jig, right? Oh my gosh.

You know, everybody working in concert together and then no one, you mean thousands of people were working in concert and not one person shared it with anybody. Man, you know we got that election. We elected that guy. Here's what we did with those machines. Nobody has said that, what does that tell you? It didn't happen.

CUOMO: You are--

LEMON: Because you can't get people to do that.

CUOMO: You are exactly right. I'll even make it more simple; they are double-O done (ph).