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Cuomo Prime Time
Ousted Cybersecurity Head Insists Election Was Secure; Women To Play Key Roles In Biden White House With More Names In Mix; Dr. Scott Atlas Resigns From Trump WH, COVID-19 Task Force. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 30, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: The news continues. So, let's go to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME."
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, John.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
I hope you all made some good Thanksgiving memories. I hope you were able to keep perspective in a difficult time and avoid any potential nightmares.
Now we're back and we are having a collective reset. We have a new leader coming into office. We have new problems that are coming sharply into focus. And there is reason to believe that the coming months may be the worst of the pandemic.
Fittingly, the Christian faithful begin what today? Advent, the great period of waiting and a-waiting that ends with Christmas. The question is what kind of Christmas are we collectively awaiting? What will Christmas look like? That will be in President-Elect Biden's hands. But remember it's still the Trump administration.
And when it comes to the pandemic, there is not enough being done for any better days to be coming soon. Now, as for creating better times ahead, President-Elect Biden is doing things. He added three more experts to his COVID Task Force this weekend. That will help.
Biden is also harnessing the power of women more than we've ever seen. Vice President is obvious and, of course, a big deal, Senator Harris, now Vice President-Elect Harris.
Now they just announced these guys, an all-women White House Communications team. The bar for their success is simple. Don't lie. Don't baselessly deny things that we have to call out, and you will certainly compare very well to the current toxic team.
Women are also nominated for many of the top economic roles, including Janet Yellen at Treasury, and Neera Tanden for OMB. Now I'll pause here. Why? Tanden is an early opportunity for us to #Remember.
Why? Republicans are saying "We may block her. We don't like," wait for it, "Her tweets." Really? The same people who are saying nothing as Trump continues to lie about our election, who said nothing about his lies, nothing about his savagery. They sit silently. They are complicit. They ignored it and they empowered it.
And even now as Trump tries to sabotage the transition, with baseless claims, and does more to try to divide us than any Russian ever dreamed of doing, Republicans, or Republi-CAN'Ts, as you've become, let's hear where you are on that before you dare judge tweets by Tanden or anyone else. Remember what they did and what they failed to do.
From the worst to another positive first, our next Defense Secretary could be the first woman in that role. Sue Gordon, short-list for the CIA.
More women are slated throughout the administration. Why is this good? Well, women are more than 50 percent of our population. They are nowhere near that in terms of representation of power.
Maybe if they get in there, we will see perspective that we haven't benefitted from. Maybe when they're there in numbers they will be more open and more empowered for that perspective to come out. Let's see where it gets us.
For saying, "Oh, man, I don't know. That's a lot of women on Biden's team," perspective, the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, when asked how many women on the Supreme Court would be enough, she said "Nine." Eyebrows went up.
Listen to her rationale. "We had nine mostly White men for a long time. Nobody was upset by that. Why would nine women when they're over half the population be so weird?" Interesting perspective!
So, Biden's picks are part of the big perspective on the big picture on how we make the most of our diversity. But big moves aside, as someone covering the White House for a long time now, I took a lot of comfort in something pretty small, like the size of a pinky toe bone.
When Biden hurt his foot, I appreciated it. Why? "Because I'm a sadist!" No. Because we just got the straight truth about it. No lie. No deny. Just he was out playing with his dog. He sprained his foot, or broke some bone in his foot, and probably have to wear a walking boot for weeks.
So, why is it a big deal for me? Because there was no BS. There was no blocking us from the reason that Trump was rushed to a hospital. No fugazi doctors with these absurd lauding statements about Biden being Superhuman, the strongest pinky toe in history.
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Just the truth! And the truth matters because when you lie about small things, you lie about big things. That's Trump. That's why a record number of you kicked him out. He is going out the way he came in, a liar. And he's going out lying about the election he lost.
He's even attacking GOP governors in Arizona and Georgia for not doing enough to overrule your votes there. Both states went for Biden, certified today. I wonder if Trump's shameful savaging of our democracy may make the difference in that Georgia Senate run-off.
I mean, after all, you Trump folk there, do you really want to stand up for him after he's thrown you under the bus, lied about our election? You really want to stand up for Republicans who said nothing about it, who've shown that they will be no better? Really?
Look, we already know the big answer about this election. It worked. 153 million of you, record, came out to remind the people who want to be in power who is really the boss. Bravo!
How do we know it worked? Well, no one in charge says otherwise. No court has said otherwise. Even Trump's guy who was put in on the federal level to oversee it confirms it. That would be Chris Krebs. He was so committed to telling you the truth about the safety of the election he was fired, after making sure you knew the truth.
His message, in his first interview, last night, was this.
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CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY & INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: There is no foreign power that is flipping votes. There is no domestic actor flipping votes. I did it right. We did it right. This was a secure election.
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CUOMO: Again, he says it, got fired. Courts say it, they get attacked. Republican and Democrat governors, Secretaries of State, legislatures, they all say it, "They're all part of the problem. They're all part of the conspiracy."
Only Trump and his complicit cronies in Congress know the truth, and we all know that that is a lie. Again, remember who sat silent when he lied to your face. Remember them.
Let's bring in David Gregory for some perspective.
David, we're waiting on Ana Navarro. She's got some tech problems. And why do I say that? Because it's good to have a woman when you're going to be talking about the significance of all the women picks that Joe Biden is making.
How big a deal? Is this only for the politically correct, only the political class, only the media, or could the implications be profound?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": I think it is profound. I think it's really significant. I mean, some of Biden's top jobs are still filled by White men at Secretary of State, at Chief of Staff. We don't know what's going to happen at Secretary of Defense.
But I think there are key players, who are significant advisers, like Janet Yellen is his nominee at Treasury, like Neera Tanden and others, who would be top economic advisers, who are women, who are going to bring a different perspective.
And it's a way of saying, "Look, these are powerful positions." These are going to be people who are influential on my thinking, and that sends an important signal. So, there is the politics of it, of course.
But I think it's Biden recognizing that in a lot of ways, Chris, he understands he's a transitional figure, that he represented a way to stop Trump, but to bridge what the Democratic Party is becoming, and will yet become. And that is going to be dominated by women, people of color, younger people, and I think the Party is sorting itself out.
CUOMO: Are you surprised or do you expect to see Biden pick a Republican?
GREGORY: I think it would be his inclination.
But I was thinking, you know, I'm reading President Obama's memoir, and his reaching out to Gates, and ultimately to Hagel. The fact that he reached out to Jeff Flake, originally, and Jeff Flake, former Republican Senator, from Arizona, was onboard, and then he ended up getting too much flak to go through with it.
So, I think the inclination was there then. I think Biden would have the inclination. But I think he'll be careful. I think he'll be careful here because I think he really does have to watch his Left flank.
Look, some of the - some of the references you were making, people attacking tweets of Neera Tanden, and so forth, we're going to get back to good old-fashioned ideological battle. I mean, his nominees and his policies on the economy and otherwise are going to be attacked, by the Right, on good old-fashioned ideological grounds.
CUOMO: Well they better--
GREGORY: And we haven't really seen that.
CUOMO: They better be ideological, David.
GREGORY: To have so much of an ideologue.
CUOMO: They better be ideological, because if they're character-based, or if they're behavior-based--
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: --or if they're legitimacy-based, or pedigree-based, they're going to have a big problem, because I'm telling you, this has been a different period.
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Trump was not just a Republican. In fact, I don't even think he was a Republican. And I think that whole Party now is just him. I don't even know what ideology they have left, you know? What? No taxes.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: Or taxing less after the tax cut they gave him that wasn't paid for?
GREGORY: I know. But they do have tax--
CUOMO: I just think they have to be careful.
GREGORY: They have regulation. They have the courts, Chris.
CUOMO: Oh, yes.
GREGORY: And the truth is he did a good job of getting right with the social conservatives, and the economic base, of the Party, when he was otherwise really a populist, and was running a campaign, and ultimately, a presidency, based on fear and grievance.
CUOMO: Right. I don't see that as populism.
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CUOMO: I'm with you. He was a demagogue.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: He may have said he wanted to be a populist, if he knows what that means, but he wasn't a populist. He did nothing to empower those people. He just harnessed their animus, and left us in a worst place.
But I hear you on all that. Let's talk about it specifically. From Biden picking women and the implication there - can't even talk about Trump, without losing my voice.
Here is what his lawyer said about the federal official who came out, and said the election was safe and got fired for it. Here is what his lawyer, unfortunately an Italian guy, said about Chris Krebs.
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JOE DIGENOVA, TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: Anybody who thinks that this election went well, like that idiot Krebs, who used to be the Head of Cybersecurity--
HOWIE CARR, HOST, THE HOWIE CARR SHOW: Oh, the guy that was on "60 Minutes" last night.
DIGENOVA: --that guy, that guy is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot.
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CUOMO: Hyperbole? Yes. But what is the instinct?
The instinct is "Be angry, want to hurt them." And they will play that they're victims, right? But I think it's important that, as they exit, you see them for what they are, and notice no Republican said anything about it, David.
GREGORY: Yes. Well, because they're afraid to because they want distance from it.
But you said something, a minute ago that's important, that plays into that clip you just played, which is I'm thinking, maybe wishfully, that we'll get back to two parties fighting one another, in a contest of ideas.
You're reminding me that, no, we got to realize that there's bad actors here and there's people who are trying to delegitimize.
Now, this goes on, on both sides. We both know that. But the reality here is that Biden comes into office with a high number, a high percentage of people, Republicans, Trump supporters, who have been led to believe that he cheated without evidence.
The courts are doing their job. I think Trump is increasingly, in their rearview mirror, but there is such a thing as Trumpism that says, "Oh, these guys cheated, and they're trying to screw you in the end," the same politics or grievance that he didn't come through on but that he can still whip up.
And that's what you have to watch out for because if it's a fight over taxes, and regulation, and the role of labor unions, fine. We can have that debate, if we're really going to have that debate. And I don't know that we are.
And it goes to your question about where - are Republicans going to feel strong enough to come out and have those fights, or are they ultimately going to have to check everything based on Trumpism and whatever role that it plays going forward.
CUOMO: I think that there is a good chance that Trump is going to be remembered, though a President, as basically an Alex Jones, who hasn't yet come forward to tell you it's an act yet. He's been telling people things that he doesn't really believe for a long time.
And, look, we're seeing it now. He's attacking Republican governors.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: He's attacking anybody who won't help him cheat. That's his legacy. That is, as you say, in the rearview mirror. Problem is he left us with a disaster with this pandemic. It's going to be worse than we have ever seen, over the next few months. And that's going to fall on Biden's watch.
But between now and then, David, my biggest concern about Trump ever is now. What will he do between now and January? What will he fail to do that may leave us very, very deep in doo-doo?
Last word to you.
GREGORY: It's a real concern.
I mean, I think the legacy of Trump beyond what - especially what he's doing now, perhaps it'll be more consequential in certain areas, trade being one. It will depend how he's ultimately seen in areas that people think are legitimate that they separate from all these other things that he has done.
But the impact on things like the pandemic is real. And Biden is going to come into office with a legacy of now people saying, "OK, what are you going to do? Where are the results?"
And you are going to have to do it under the cloud of suspicion of your legitimacy, because, remember, a lot of people, who even faulted Trump, who might have been supporters of Trump, on the pandemic, may have said, "Look, this was a tough thing to manage for anybody, and we're tired of all these restrictions."
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There's going to be a lot of pressure on Biden to deliver and to have to own those results. As any new person coming in, just like Obama did, in the financial collapse, would also have to face.
CUOMO: Hey listen, it happens on your watch, and it's good, you win.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: Happens on your watch, and it's bad, you lose. Trump tried to change those rules, didn't happen. Record number of people came out to reject him.
Only thing I see a little differently is, yes, Biden is going to have problems. He's going to have to walk on his own. No question. No pun intended because of his foot.
But the tactics, and what was allowed, and what was said to be OK, you don't get to just come back, and start talking about character, and integrity, and constitutionality, and all that. Not after this. So, it will be interesting to see what the state of play is.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: Long way to go. I got to jump.
GREGORY: I'd just think - I'd just say quickly. I do think that there is a desire for people to kind of to exhale.
CUOMO: Right.
GREGORY: And to get back to a place of leadership that feels a little bit more normal. We're going to have a lot of fights, lot of questions, over legitimacy, no doubt.
CUOMO: Yes.
GREGORY: But I think part of this result is a desire to get to that place for people to feel less exercised, less manic in our politics.
CUOMO: Right. I mean Biden has got to figure out his Left flank, as you said. You're right.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: The Republicans, or the Republi-CAN'Ts, or the Re-Trump-licans, or whatever you want to call them, they got way bigger issues. Who are they? What are they about? You are all Trump.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: You've all been quiet. You've all been scared. Now what? We'll see. David Gregory, thank you very much.
We're going to have Ana Navarro coming on a little bit later in the show, we figure out the tech side, to talk about what the impact of all these women selections could be on the administration and our history.
We're going to walk you through where things stand tonight, on the big issue, which is the pandemic. The worst days are ahead. Accept it. Accept it. It is a big moment in the fight. What do we have coming our way? What does the vaccine mean? What does it not mean?
The Chief Doctor is here, next.
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CUOMO: Dr. Scott Atlas is out, the controversial White House COVID Adviser though he had no experience in dealing with pandemics ever, let alone Coronaviruses, let alone this one. He resigned from the Trump administration today - excuse me.
Apparently, his 130-day window in the Administration was up. In his resignation letter, to the President, he wrote, "As you know, I always relied on the latest science and evidence without any political considerations or influence." That's all I'm going to read for it because it is complete B.S.
This is the guy who told people in Michigan to fight against wearing a mask, and social distancing, and restrictions on restaurants. That science, record-high cases, record-high hospitalizations, our
system is at its breaking point. I am not about hyperbole or exaggeration when it comes to COVID, OK? 93,000 people were hospitalized.
I talk to people in the system all over the country. They are more frightened than at any point except for the beginning when they didn't know what the hell they were dealing with. Now they know, and they say, "We've never had more to deal with." That's our fault. It is only our fault.
We're at a point where Rhode Island is turning to field hospitals, California considering a new stay-at-home order, why? The ICUs are surpassing capacity maybe before Christmas. And we just saw what happened with Thanksgiving.
We have every indication that there's going to be a case pop from what we decided to do over the last week. We're not supposed to be letting our guard down. We did exactly that. And I think there may be a tendency to be even more nonchalant because we've all got the vapors from the vaccine.
Moderna, Pfizer, they're getting closer and closer, it's getting better and better, the roll-out. "You're going to have competent leadership in there after the Inauguration. People will be able to do it. So, why don't we just live as we want?" That is a horrible analysis.
Don't listen to me. Let's bring in Chief Doctor Sanjay Gupta, along with Dr. Elmer Huerta, Medical Contributor to CNN en Espanol, and a participant in the Moderna vaccine trial.
Hey, good to have you, Doc. Sanjay, I hope Thanksgiving was good. I hope it was good for both of you. The idea--
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
CUOMO: --of people not doing what they need to do, as the holidays come, and they love you, Sanjay, but they're sick of the message. They miss their loved ones. It's been too much for too long. "I got to live the holidays. The vaccine is coming. I'll be fine." What is your concern?
GUPTA: Well, I mean, I - my concern is that it'll get a lot worse before it ultimately gets better. And with this hope of the vaccine on the horizon, you are finding, and I'm seeing this among my own friends and colleagues as well, sort of one of two camps.
People are either saying exactly what you are alluding to, Chris, "Hey, we're through this. The light is at the end of the tunnel. We can - we can sort of let our guard down."
And another group is saying, "Hey, it's just not that much longer. Let's redouble our efforts, and try and save as many people as we can before the vaccine gets here. It's coming, but it's still going to take several months for the majority of people to actually have access to this vaccine."
So, the message is the same, Chris. I mean the idea that still in the United States the best that we could do is be the worst in the world is not something that I think anybody predicted or aspired to. We can still do things to save lives over the next several months. Anybody, anybody can be part of that movement to save lives.
CUOMO: Now, the good news with the vaccine, on top of the scientific good news, Dr. Huerta, is the vaccine hasn't been politicized. So, Trump was telling people "Vaccine good." So we don't have a block in our political culture to people wanting to take it. Yet, we're a little bit better than 50 percent of people say "I'll take the vaccine."
Now, as I said, Dr. Huerta was in a trial for the vaccine, and he went through it. I want to hear your experience. But start by telling people who say "I'm not taking it. I don't trust it," what do you say to them? And then, what was your experience?
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DR. ELMER HUERTA, MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR, CNN EN ESPANOL, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Hi Chris, good evening. Thanks for the opportunity to be with you and your audience.
What I would tell them is that they need to have confidence because - all the (ph) important in the development of the vaccine. But the second part, which is the clinical component, which is the experimentation with the human beings that has been following the scientific rules.
Phase I, Phase II, Phase III have been really scientifically well- founded, number one. Number two, Phase I and Phase II studies have been published in scientific journals. The papers have been reviewed by peers.
So, the scientific component of the clinical part of the development of the vaccine has been scientifically sound. People need to trust that very part.
CUOMO: How was your experience with the vaccine?
HUERTA: Has been great. I'm very proud, and I'm very happy, Chris, that my participation, my blood, my time, I'm part of one of those 30,000 people who got the injection.
I got two shots, the first one on August the 19th, and the second one, on September, the 14th. I don't know what did I get? If I got the vaccine, I don't know, or maybe the placebo.
But it is important for us, as human beings, to know that the best way to develop medications and vaccines, in this case, is through science. And these vaccines, all of them, are following science as the guidance, and that is extremely important for the public to understand. CUOMO: And while you don't know if you got the placebo or the vaccine, you have had to track symptoms and any difficulties, so far so good. God bless. Let's hope it stays that way.
Let's put up the schedule on the Moderna vaccine timeline.
I remember there are two vaccines. They both have to be kept cold. But the Pfizer vaccine that came out first, or whatever, we heard about it first, that needs to be kept really cold. The Moderna vaccine has to be kept cold, but not so cold that it's hard to store and to transport.
So, Sanjay, December, 40 million doses, January, another 50 million doses, February and March, another 60 million doses, so 150 million doses, you know, to us, that sounds like a huge number. But what does that mean, in terms of how many people and what kind of people get this? Like how much prophylaxis is that taking us through the spring?
GUPTA: Well, Chris, first thing to remember is that this is two doses, typically, for this vaccine, as Dr. Huerta, was just alluding to. So, any time you see these numbers, you got to divide it by two to figure out the number of people who could actually be vaccinated.
We can show you, Chris, what the likely scenario is, in terms of who is going to get vaccinated first, and what percentage of the population they represent. So, you hear - it's going to go to the states, and the states are ultimately going to make these decisions.
What we're hearing is that healthcare workers are going to be part of the first phase, Phase 1a. Why is that? People ask that a lot, "Why healthcare workers?" Because if you lose a lot of healthcare workers, because they become infected, you're going to strain already very strained hospital system.
After that is, the rest of the essential workers and then people with high-risk medical conditions and adults over 65-years-old. If you do the math there, Chris, you are starting to look at 250 million people roughly.
So, it's a majority of the country that really falls into some of these categories. And again, two doses, so that's 500 million doses. That's why when you start to look at the general population, young, healthy guy like yourself, when would you be able to get the vaccine?
It's probably going to be the summer, because there's all these other people in line, in front of you, either because they're taking care of COVID patients, or because they're at greater risk of getting sick. Now, you've obviously gone through this, and you did get quite sick.
CUOMO: But that's a good point.
GUPTA: But that's sort of--
CUOMO: There are a lot of "Mes" out there. There are a lot of people who have had it. So, what is the advice to people--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --who have had it and, let's say, don't have the antibodies anymore. Should you take the vaccine?
GUPTA: I think the answer is going to be yes. I don't want to be dogmatic about this because we are figuring some of this out.
In your case, again, you have been measured. You know you don't have - I think your antibodies waned or they've gone completely, so you have - you probably have less protection now, although there are other components of the immune system.
But what the guidance seems to be, to answer your question directly, is that if you have had it, if you develop the Coronavirus infection, recovered from that, you would still be a candidate for the vaccine.
We don't know how long the immunity lasts from natural infection. It's still an open question, one that I hope that we can answer at some point, but the guidance now is that you probably would still be a candidate for the vaccine, at that - at that appropriate time.
CUOMO: Dr. Gupta, thank you.
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Dr. Huerta, nice to have you on the show. I hope you had a good (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) and I hope that the study of your clinical side of taking the vaccine stays. Please come back. Tell us how you are doing down the road. God bless.
HUERTA: Thank you very much, Chris.
GUPTA: Thanks, Chris.
HUERTA: I just want to remind people we are in the middle of the pandemic. We need to really prevent this infection, and that's a very important thing. Thank you very much for having me.
CUOMO: 100 percent!
Sanjay, Dr. Huerta, thank you very much, fellas. Appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thanks.
CUOMO: All right, took far too long, but Joe Biden finally got his first presidential daily briefing today. You know why it matters? Trouble in this world.
We have been very, very focused on one troublemaker in this country. But there are problems all over the place, and they are going to be made manifest. Iran, after the assassination of one of their top nuclear scientists, what do you think, nothing happens next? What was he told by the White House?
Tom Friedman says there is a good reason why Biden should not go back to Obama-era thinking about the Middle East. Really? What does that mean? Next.
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CUOMO: High-profile assassination in the Middle East, did you hear about it? Could land a foreign policy crisis in Joe Biden's lap!
The Iranians blaming Israel, the reporting is that it was an assassination, a top nuclear scientist taken out, question is what? What's the retaliation? It's exactly the kind of attack that shows just how much things have changed in the Middle East during the last four years.
Now, we're going to question that supposition, and see what it means for us, with Tom Friedman, of "The New York Times," also the Author of "From Beirut to Jerusalem."
Again, I recommend the read, not just because Tom is a friend and mentor, but because you need to understand where we were, to understand where we are, when it comes to the situation in the Middle East.
So Tom, I hope everything was better than worse for Thanksgiving with you and the family. It's weird for all of us.
Let's question the premise. What's changed? We're stronger. Trump was stronger. People are afraid of him. And he told people how it was going to be, and that's why we've had no terror attacks, so haven't things changed for the better?
TOM FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "FROM BEIRUT TO JERUSALEM": Well Chris, the way I'd look at it is that Donald Trump created a certain amount of leverage for Joe Biden, on both the China front and the Iran front.
On the China front, he imposed 25 percent tariffs on about 50 percent of China's exports to the United States. And on Iran, he broke the Iran Nuclear Deal, and reimposed crippling economic sanctions.
Trump, in both those theaters, Chris, was they were able to translate that leverage into really sustainable new deals. So, he's actually left that for Biden. And that's a potential opportunity for Biden. Now, in the case of the Iran Nuclear Deal, the point I was making in
my column today, is what's changed, since four years ago, is that while Israel and some of our Arab allies are certainly concerned that Iran might get a bomb, actually they're much more concerned, these days, about Iran's proliferation of precision-guided missiles to Lebanon, to Syria, to Iraq, to Yemen, missiles that in the hands of these Iranian proxies, because they are precision-guided, Chris, can do enormous damage to their economies.
So, bottom line, what I think they're going to want President-Elect Biden to do, which is going to be President Biden, is to use the leverage that Trump left him, not just to maybe get a better deal on the Iran nuclear question, but also to try to curb Iran's proliferation of these precision-guided missiles.
CUOMO: Now, what do you mean when you say, "Think twice before you go back to the Obama-era thinking?"
FRIEDMAN: Well I wasn't really criticizing Obama or Obama-era thinking. What I was saying was the world basically has changed since the Iran Nuclear Deal. A new threat has emerged.
And while the Israel, the Arab states, they're concerned about the bomb, Iran's chances of using a nuclear bomb are pretty small. That would be suicidal. The Iranian Regime is not suicidal. It is so homicidal. It's ready to really use these precision-guided missiles, and is on a daily basis.
And all I was saying is that as we are now four years later, that's become a much bigger threat, and we should really think about not using the leverage we have, just to curb a Nuclear Development Program, in Iran, but also these precision-guided missiles. That's really what I'm saying.
CUOMO: If Israel is responsible, for this assassination, as it's being called in Iran, aren't - isn't the U.S. kind of hamstrung?
I mean Israel is our - is our ally in the region, and we know they see Iran as an existential threat, and you can't not support Israel. And then if you don't take Iran's side, which the United States, I would assume, would not, how do you get anything done with them? It's kind of a box, no?
FRIEDMAN: I actually think the Iranians are the one in the box because I think they're really afraid, right now, to retaliate, while Trump is there, because the Iranians, they usually counter that they can outcrazy anybody else. And I think they're worried they actually couldn't outcrazy Trump. Maybe Trump would outcrazy them.
At the same time, when Trump is gone, I think they're going to want to reach out to the Biden administration, to see if there is some kind of new deal that can be negotiated.
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So, I think the Iranians are in the box right now, Chris, much more than - much more than us. But I would also tell you something else. I'm sure the Israelis did this. I'm sure it was the Mossad. Mossad is very good. No question, Chris.
But you know what's the most frightening thing, I would say, for the Iranians, about this - this latest assassination, which is basically part of a long series of attacks that have been going on inside, it's the number of Iranians, Chris, who are clearly cooperating with Israel. And I think it's because they really dislike this Regime. And I think that's the really interesting story here.
The Mossad is good, Chris, but they're only as good as they get cooperation inside. And they've been clearly getting massive cooperation inside, and that is a real challenge to the legitimacy of this Regime.
CUOMO: This is scary. But you know what? There is something productive about talking about something other than Trump's mouth for a change.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CUOMO: We got real issues in this world that we have ignored because of his crazy. And now, we got to deal with everybody else's crazy. And it's a good time to start talking about it because Biden is going to have to do something about it.
Tom Friedman, thank you very much for the perspective as always. I am thankful for you being in my life.
FRIEDMAN: Thanks so much, Chris, appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right. Did you see what happened in Georgia this weekend? The RNC Chief has to convince Republicans to their faces that their vote will actually count in the run-offs deciding the control of the Senate.
See, this is the problem with the toxicity of Trump's mouth. Now you got a problem in Georgia. But you have a bigger problem in that Party.
What is the GOP? Seriously! What are they? I know a lot of good Republicans, lot in my family. What do they know? Are they just Re- Trump-licans? Are they Republi-CAN'Ts? What are they about? What is their future?
Max Boot, Ana Navarro, there she is, Calinda (ph), next.
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CUOMO: I'm sure a lot of you learned this as children. But we're living it out now in our country. When you give in to a bully, it never ends. What are we seeing? From Arizona to Georgia, Trump is turning on members of his own Party. He preys on weakness.
And, by the way, it doesn't matter that he openly endorsed all these people in the past. It doesn't matter that he said Kemp was doing a good job by ignoring the pandemic in Georgia.
Now, it's not about loyalty. It's always been about fealty, you see? And if you don't serve Trump, he crushes you. And that's what he did to Kemp in Georgia. And this fear of blowback is what keeps the cronies in Congress "Shh!"
They say nothing. They want to talk about Neera Tanden's tweets. Really? After everything you have ignored with Trump, you think you have that, the gall, the unmitigated gall?
So, what will the state of play be for this Party? Do they need a new name? What are they about? Let's discuss the fate of the President's Party, because that's what it is, with Ana Navarro, and Max Boot.
And I know you both don't like that suggestion, but you know I love you both, and I say it from coming from a good place.
Ana, I also want to ask you about the significance of all the picks that Biden is making, who are female. But let's deal with your Party, and then we'll finish on that.
So Max, am I right to say "Who are you people? What are you, the Re- Trump-licans, the Republi-CAN'Ts, instead of the Republi-CANs? Do you have a Party? Do you have to re-do it all?"
What's the state of play, in your mind?
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Chris, this is why I am very glad that I left the Republican Party, after a lifetime, because the Republican Party does not stand for anything anymore other than loyalty to the mad whims of Donald Trump.
And that's literally true because, remember, last summer, the entire Republican Party platform came down to loyalty to Donald Trump. The Republican Party literally has no positions other than supporting Donald Trump.
And now we're seeing the cost of that support because since the election, Trump has mounted an unprecedented attack on the integrity of our electoral system. There has never been another president in our history, who has refused to accept the results of the election.
And much to the disgrace of the Republican Party, most of them are too cowardly to call him out. And those few who are doing their duty, like the Secretary of State, in Georgia, or the Governor of Georgia, are suffering non-stop abuse from the President's partisans. They have to have bodyguards because their lives are being threatened.
This is what the Republican Party has become. It is a thoroughly odious institution that has been completely corrupted by Trump and his cronies.
CUOMO: Well, Joe diGenova, someone we both know, Ana, just said that Krebs, the guy that Trump put in, to secure the election, should be drawn and quartered, he should be taken out and shot. Yes, it's hyperbolic, but it's also frightening, and it makes Trump followers want to hate that person.
The question for someone like you is "Can you go home?"
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I don't know where home is. If you, by home, you mean can I go back to the Republican Party, I don't know what the Republican Party stands for right now.
And look, I think what you are seeing play out right now is the fact that Donald Trump has so many on a very short leash. And until January 5th, when those run-offs in Georgia take place, he's got all the leverage.
They know that one or two mean tweets from Donald Trump against voting in Georgia can make or break the difference between Republicans coming out for their candidates, or not.
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And so, if you're Mitch McConnell, whose entire career rests on these seats in Georgia, you're shutting up. And if you are his cronies, you're shutting up. And if you don't want mean tweets directed at you, you're shutting up.
So, yes, as ridiculous, as absurd, as cowardly, as infantile, as it sounds, the bottom line is the Republican Party has been reduced to most people cowering in silence, and shaking in a corner in hopes that Donald Trump does not direct a mean tweet at them.
Now the question is what happens after January 20th? What happens then? How much of his power does he lose? How much longer will people who have been career public servants allow themselves to be held hostage by a mad man?
Right now, they don't want to poke the bear, crazy bear, but the bear, nonetheless. The question is will they ever be able to regain their spines, maybe find them in whatever medical lab they're being held in formaldehyde?
CUOMO: Well you got different levels of play, right, Max?
You got the Rubio, who Ana knows very well, Cruz, who she also knows well, Cruz play, which is "I'm going to be the next guy. I'm going to be the next Trump. Let me say some kind of stuff that he'd say," I think they've got a problem.
Then you have a different level of play which is much more threatening, Trump has people in Georgia thinking that they shouldn't come out and vote because it won't count.
The RNC had, there, had to say, "No, no, no, your votes will count, please come out." They're being quiet, because they don't want him to hurt them in Georgia but he may have hurt them in Georgia, because they're being quiet and not saying, "No, no, no, the election works, the voting system works."
And now you have Kemp, who's not in a rush to do any favors for Trump. So, what does it mean for Georgia?
BOOT: Well, it's a mess, and Donald Trump is often his own worst enemy.
You saw that during the campaign where he kept insisting that there is going to be mail-in voter fraud, of which there was basically none. But by saying that over and over again, he dissuaded his followers from casting mail-in ballots, and he may have cost himself the election.
And right now, with his crazy claims about how the vote has been rigged and you can't trust Dominion Voting Systems, and all the rest of it, it's all insane. Literally, there is not a shred of evidence. But it may actually dissuade Republican voters in Georgia from turning out.
So, there is kind of poetic justice in this in that at the end of the day the people that Trump may hurt the worst are his own followers, because he's truly in it only for himself. It's a massive ego trip.
He doesn't actually care about the Republican Party, and he will gladly destroy the Republican Party, in order to soothe his own ego.
CUOMO: Ana, is it as big a deal as I think it is that Biden is putting all these - and the all-women Comms team, putting up women in all these positions, Yellen is already in there, maybe Secretary of Defense, maybe CIA, other positions as well.
To the people who say "Ooh that's too many women," or "Ah, it doesn't really matter," how significant is it to you?
NAVARRO: Well, look, I don't know that people have ever said, "Oh that's too many men" in those jobs.
How does it feel to me? Chris, I've learned how much representation matters. I can't tell you how many little girls tell me about how inspiring it is to see somebody at the Supreme Court that looks like them, to see somebody in positions of importance, that look like them.
And so, it really does shatter a glass ceiling. And maybe, if you're not a woman, you don't understand, maybe if you're not a woman of color, you don't understand. I like to hope that that's not the case. But I can tell you, for those little girls, for immigrants, seeing an Alejandro Mayorkas, for women of color seeing the new U.N. Ambassador, seeing the Head of the Economic Council, it means so much, because representation tells you, it sends you a very strong message, that you, too, can reach for the stars, and that there are no glass ceilings.
I bet you - I bet you that if you'd go home, and you ask Cha Cha, if you ask your little girls, they'll tell you how much it means to them, and then to--
CUOMO: I know.
NAVARRO: --and to your Cristina.
CUOMO: I know. As you know, in my family, I don't have to ask. People would tell I'm surrounded by women who are smarter and telling me exactly what I need to know all the time.
And I know Max's wife. And I know that we've had her on the show. We've seen her on MSNBC.
There's so many women who have so much to offer. The timing is great, Max, not just because we're about 10 years too late, in recognizing the need for this diversity play, but they would have to pray for a better opportunity to be compared to the outgoing administration than to get a better gift they've been given with this.
On the Comms level, whatever agency, if you can't do better than who's been in there now, you should - you should want the criticism. So, the timing is great, in terms of who they'll be compared to, no?
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BOOT: Absolutely. I mean, in terms of being compared to the outgoing administration, I mean even if you're minimally competent, you're way ahead of where the Trump administration was.
But there's also a downside to it, of course, which is that the Trump people are going to leave a lot of devastation in their wake.
They have done a lot of damage in the bureaucracy. They have purged a lot of good people. They've cost the U.S. government a lot of credibility, both at home and abroad. And it's going to be a massive, massive undertaking to rebuild the U.S. government.
But so far, I'm very impressed by the people that Biden is appointing. Men, women, they're all very competent. They're experienced. They're moderate. They're centrists. They're the kind of people that we need to roll up their sleeves, and get this job done.
BOOT: Yes, he's got some work to do on the administration. Look, I love firsts that are positive.
And as somebody who was raised by a strong mom, and sisters, and has a wife and daughters, who make him better already, it's nice to see that we're doing the right thing for a change. Let's see what happens next. But it's good.
Ana, thank you for fighting, to get the technology side, to work tonight. Max, pleasure to have you on the show.
NAVARRO: Yes. The Christmas Grinch stole my Cisco link.
BOOT: Glad to be on, Chris.
CUOMO: Listen, you're here, you're beautiful and you're beneficial. Thank you very much.
NAVARRO: I've missed you. Thank you.
CUOMO: I was actually talking to Max - no, I'm kidding. It's great to have you both. God bless and take care.
BOOT: Chris?
CUOMO: We'll be right back.
BOOT: First time anybody's ever said that to me.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. So, look, it was Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was hard. I didn't see my mom. I didn't see my siblings. I know it was hard for a lot of people, but now there's a reset. And the Christian calendar is actually helpful here. Advent season. A lot of you will identify with that Let's begin with CNN Tonight and D. lemon. That is the Advent of Don Lemon has already arrived.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You didn't see me?
