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Cuomo Prime Time
Barr: "No Basis" For Seizing Voting Machines, No Reason For "Special Counsel," No Widespread Election Fraud; $900 Billion COVID-19 Relief Bill Clears House, Senate Voting Soon; U.S. Tops 18 Million COVID-19 Cases As Hospitalizations Hit New High Of 115,000-Plus. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 21, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR, NEW DAY: All right, a reminder. Don't miss Full Circle, Anderson's digital news show. You can catch it streaming it live at 6 P.M. Eastern at CNN.com/FullCircle, or watch it there and on the CNN app at any time, on-demand.
The news continues. So, let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME."
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, John.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Today is the winter solstice. Days are only supposed to get brighter from here. That's a nice fact as metaphor, isn't it? But it is also the darkest day of a year. And that is a fact as well. And it is too true for too many and for too many reasons.
There is a vote going on right now. That's what John and Manu were just talking about. The relief bill will finally become a law. But it is barely a visible shaft of light in the pandemic darkness. In fact, it's more about who's getting the shaft than it is any kind of ray of light.
This is an economic crisis in the middle of a pandemic. Help should have come in days, not months.
$600 checks for struggling individuals, another $600 per child, $1,500 per couple, making less than $150,000, so look, if you net it up, if you're a family of four, and you make less than $150,000 together, you get $2,400.
Is that something? Yes, it's something. But after months, after months, doesn't really mean as much as it would have. Maybe you would have gotten two done in this time! Everything is worse than it was the first time they gave us relief. Why did it take so much longer in the richest country in the world?
But here is the real indignation, and you should be indignant. In fact, I argue to you, my brothers and sisters, you must be indignant because you must be angered by what is unfair in all of this. If you want anything to change, you have to include that kind of response.
The indignation here is not just the delay, but why it was delayed, and what was bargained for. Tax breaks for CEOs, the so-called three- martini lunch thing, reining in Federal Reserve's ability to boost an economy, protection for companies from lawsuits by sick workers. That was the reason for the delay.
Democrats were forced to give in on some of it. GOP demands so big business can write off some hoity-toity lunch?
That's the three-martini thing that likely will cost more than $600 a pop, those big lunches? Republicans used the three-martini lunch as leverage against tax credits for needy families. Seriously?
You don't get the lunch thing you won't give us the tax credits? "Well you don't like the lunch, and we don't like the tax credits," and you're OK with that? Americans are starving and waiting in food lines all across the country, and that's what they balance against, martinis or families get less money? Are you serious?
Liability protections for corporations, where are the lawsuits? "Oh, there are like 1,500." We don't know that there is any abuse. That's what held it up for months. And that is an untold part of this story, my Christmas gift to you.
You're going to hear "Nancy Pelosi, man, she got giving this bill there. It was like $2 trillion, $1.8 trillion, it was never enough. That's why it got delayed." BS! She never got a version of this bill. There were never any negotiations where that corporate liability wasn't in it until just now at the end. Just now at the end.
Now, fair criticism, why didn't the Democrats point this out more and better? Where was their indignation? I think that's a fair question. I mean, they weren't the source of the problem, but they could have rang the bell a little bit louder, you know?
Republican Senator Toomey, him doing this, "Well, I really got to have the Federal Reserve be able to rein in the lending powers, you know?" Why? Why now? Why now? What the hell does that have to do with the pandemic?
Now, why am I saying this? Where is the - where is Crenshaw in the House? Rubio and Cruz, all these other Trump wannabes, and patriots, why, why didn't they, speak up about these things? How could any of that stuff hold up in a crisis? How could these men and women say nothing? You must be indignant.
Never forget these people. Never reward them for what they did and didn't do during this time, because this is crazy.
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It's like saying in the middle of a war, "We've got to meet and authorize this," wouldn't that be nice, by the way? How many conflicts? How many of our men and women go to die? We don't even have Congress to vote on it, the cowards! But let's say they did. And in the middle of that negotiation, one side stands up and says, "All right, we got it all done, but we got to get a tax deduction for Bentley's." "Why? We're going to war." "Yes, I know. But I need it." That's what's happening right now in the middle of an emergency.
The country is burning down. Why aren't they in a rush to put out the fire? Why did this take months?
I'm telling you, I'm putting it on you. I know it's them. I know it's them. They're not going to change without you. I know you get that. You have to expect better. I know why you don't, OK?
You don't expect better because you've watched it get worse and worse. And it hurts. It hurts to be disappointed, to feel disenfranchised, to be made the fool by these people. You decide to just not pay attention to them in their power place. I get it.
But what's happened? The lower we let the bar get, the worse it has gotten. Be indignant. Echo our calls for accountability. When someone gets called out, for doing something wrong, be all over them. You're dying for a reason to be loud and proud on social media, use that, and in social settings as well, OK?
Instead of fighting over stupid things with people, find these areas of agreement, and outrage about what took so long, and why it wasn't done the way it should have been done. Find where you agree and magnify it. They're listening.
The politicians just saw how many of you will vote. Amazing demonstration of democracy in action! Now make them feel that pressure on an ongoing basis. I'm telling you they're paying attention.
Look, what did you just see in McConnell? Why did all the sudden he decide, we had to have relief happen, after months? Why?
Because you showed him that you'll vote your conscience. And now, he's worried about Georgia special elections. We know it. He said it on a phone call. He said "We got to get relief done. It's hurting us in Georgia." Let him know.
And all the while, don't forget why you have good right to be angry. You know what Trump is doing right now? Nothing! Nothing to do with the relief except he said, "Gee, I wish the checks were bigger, so when I send it, they see $2,000 on it." That's what motivates him?
All he's trying to do in that house right now is attack our democracy with his kooky counsel and Re-Trump-licans in Congress like Mo Brooks, Louie Gohmert, Jim Jordan, strategizing with Trump and Pence, to still try to overturn Biden's win.
So, if you're wondering what took so long to get this relief bill, look at the Re-Trump-licans. They're spending their time, trying to take down the republic, not save it.
Another example, Bill Barr, now, he's like the poster boy for the rule of law against the backdrop of lunacy. Listen to this.
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BILL BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I see no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government, you know, a wholesale seizure of machines.
We had looked at suggestions or allegations of systemic or broad-based fraud that would affect the outcome of the election, and I already spoke to that, and I standby that statement.
If I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool and was appropriate, I would do, I would name one, but I haven't, and I'm not going to.
From the information I have, you know, I agree with Secretary Pompeo's assessment. It certainly appears to be the Russians.
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CUOMO: Now, remember, this is Bill-no-holds-Barr. I called him that because it seemed there was nothing he wouldn't do for Trump.
Now what happens? Just so you understand the state of play, and why it really comes down to you, these fringe people, on the Left and the Right, these diehard partisans, they're not getting us out of this. They're all about this. They love this. OK?
As soon as Barr parted from the perfidy, he's now seen as illegit, by the Re-Trump-licans. He's called a RINO, the acronym, "Republican In Name Only." That's how sick we have gotten. Ain't no vaccine for this!
The only cure is what you tolerate and show by your indignation, your social media, how you talk to one another, what you care about. That's all that's going to get us out of this. They won't.
Now, where do we go from here after all these big events? Let's bring in the better minds, David Gregory, Michael Smerconish, good to have you both.
First, David, this idea of Mark Meadows saying "Stay tuned. Got something for you on January 6th," you believe that?
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DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": I think this is a smaller issue than it may appear to be. I mean, you hear Mitch McConnell is dissuading other Republicans from getting involved in some effort to try to bollocks up the events on January 6th.
Biden is going to become our next president. This is over. This is about a small number of Republicans wanting to stay in tune and in check with Trump because of his post-presidency plans either to run again, or to somehow try to - try to have some chokehold over a portion of the Republican Party. I don't think it's bigger than that. I think - I think - you mentioned social media. It allows people, kind
of a corner of the universe, to yell and scream. I don't think it's bigger than that at this point. There are enough people who will partake, who may try to make this debate longer on January 6th. I just don't feel it's a bigger movement than that right now.
CUOMO: Michael, weigh in on that. But then, extend to what you see as the state of play, in general.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, HOST, "MICHAEL SMERCONISH PROGRAM" ON SIRIUSXM: So first, with regard to the three-martini lunch, you would enjoy my company after one, but by the third, things are getting ugly. I'm wondering--
GREGORY: I'm asleep. I'm asleep after two.
SMERCONISH: --I'm wondering why is Bill Barr leaving Wednesday?
I can't - nobody leaves a gig, a gig like that, with a month left on the clock. You finish out the term. I'm telling you, Chris, I think it's because he believes things are going to get even uglier, as we get closer to January 6th.
And I'm sitting here tonight, and I'm remembering August 7, 1974. It was Senators Goldwater, Rhodes and Scott, who went to see President Nixon, and told him, "You don't have the votes. You're out of here." They didn't convince him. They just pointed out the scorecard.
Who are those in the Senate who would make that trip down Pennsylvania Avenue, and would they be listened to, if they were to break that news?
CUOMO: On our clock, by the way, just so you know, the House just passed the relief bill. So now, it's going on to the Senate.
What do you see in this, David that is a suggestion of where we're going to be in the next administration?
GREGORY: Two things. Let's remember, you know, part of the cynicism of how people feel about Washington. The figure $900 billion, you know, normal people don't sit down and come up with a figure like $900 billion.
You have to realize it's because politicians are scared of anything that starts with a "T," with a "Trillion." So they think "Well we can get $900 billion through" and that to me is indicative of what the future looks like.
Is this too late for the need that's out there? Just one data point, you got one in three businesses in Connecticut, small businesses that are out of business because of COVID.
There is so much need that continues to be out there, restaurants, small businesses that are shutting down, people that we're not even seeing who are in dire straits. I think an incoming Biden administration wants to do more work, but there is a lot of political capital that gets used when government spends this much money.
Forget all the debates about three-martini lunches and all the things that had to go into this pot, in order for it to be passed. Is there more relief that can be in the first quarter of next year? That's a question to me because Biden is going to have to fight for it. He's going to have to use a lot of political capital to get it done.
CUOMO: Hey, yes, Michael, you didn't answer what the - you say so Barr is going to leave because maybe he thinks it's going to get worse. Are you suggesting a January 6th thing? What do you think about that?
SMERCONISH: I'm thinking that the talk that I'm hearing out there, this martial law talk, if it really took place, is 25th Amendment kind of stuff. I mean you have the Army Secretary--
CUOMO: Never happen.
SMERCONISH: Well I'm just - it will never happen, but I'm alarmed by it.
I remember two months ago when I would take radio calls from people who would say, "You know, I think he doesn't leave if he loses," and I would scoff at that. This is really, really delusional at this stage.
And as you know, it just takes one on the Senate side to all of a sudden make them deliberate. You know who I'd like to hear from? I'd like to hear from Vice President Mike Pence. What is he saying? What role does he perceive for himself on that day?
Again, it will never happen that Donald Trump will extend his stay, but things might get ugly, and I worry about the people, who are out there, and not playing with a full deck, who are watching some of this thing, and they're reading tea leaves and may act accordingly. That scares me.
CUOMO: What I see in all this is it may happen. Trump may try to do some martial law thing. He may try to do a couple of different things. We needed the test. I really believe weak people make hard times, and we have gotten soft and weak. I don't mean on the individual basis.
[21:15:00]
All three of us know, you all travel, you're all story-tellers, you all meet people in all walks of life, people are desperate and grinding every day to get anywhere near where their dreams they thought would take them. It's not what I'm talking about.
I'm saying, collectively as about what we believe in about our institutions and our system, we've let them get weak. And now, it's time for a test. And Trump is going to test them. I do not think this is over. We'll see where it takes us, and I will need my better minds.
David Gregory, I love you, brother.
Michael Smerconish, you are, and not just because you got the best head in the business. I want you to know that. I say it all the time. It is the best head, but I love having it on my show.
Thank you very much guys.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
CUOMO: If I don't speak to you, the best to your families for Christmas. Thank you.
GREGORY: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: You're a gift to my audience.
SMERCONISH: You too, Merry Christmas. Thank you.
CUOMO: Appreciate you.
GREGORY: Merry Christmas
CUOMO: All right, so we're in the Senate right now. Are they going to vote through this deal? They should. They should. I do not see that as a pat on their back. This is months too late.
Now, one of the players, on the Left, says it's unconscionable what the Right has prioritized in a time of crisis. You know what? They should have complained more, or not. What was the right thing to do? How did we get here?
The Ranking Member of the Senate Finance Committee joins us ahead of the big vote. The Senator saw it happen. What does he think about what this says where we are? Next.
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CUOMO: We are approaching 60 million Americans starving, and our Congress watched it and waited. An eviction notice more likely than presents, for too many, this Christmas, and Congress watched and waited.
Businesses, jobs, disappearing faster, than we have seen in decades. So, what is our question now? The relief is getting through. They're going to get some help. But was this anything like a legitimate process? And what does it mean about all the need that there is to come?
We are joined by special guest, Democratic Senator Ron Wyden, of Oregon.
Good to see you, Sir, best to your family for the Holy Days.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: So, is it true that the delays on the Right were as now reported?
"The Fed Reserve, got to stop them from being able to juice the economy. Corporate liability, got to be careful about these lawsuits from workers, who may be sick. And got to get this lunch, that's how you help restaurants. Got to give the three, you know, the big - the big lunch deduction. That's how we'll get the restaurants back."
Were those really sticking points?
WYDEN: Chris, clearly what was going on was extraordinary foot- dragging.
I wrote the bipartisan bill initially, the extra $600 per week for the unemployed and the gig workers and the like, and Mitch McConnell just dragged the feet. And then he asked for this liability handout.
And we just got the numbers in a little bit ago. And these wealthy CEOs are going to get more than $6 billion in tax write-offs for their steaks and their martinis. And they basically said that's the price of admission in order to give folks who are really hurting the assistance that they would need in order to make rent and buy groceries.
CUOMO: Now, two things. One, was it really a quid pro quo that if we don't get this thing, you are not getting the money, the tax credits for the kids? And secondly, what is their argument for how that helps restaurants?
WYDEN: Well, first of all, it's not helping the people that we ought to help, and that is the folks in the neighborhoods, the small restaurants, the folks that you grew up around.
We had a piece of legislation for them. It is called the RESTAURANTS Act to give them a little bit of money to tie them over. We can pass bipartisan legislation. I did it with that initial legislation on unemployment. That's not what Mitch McConnell was interested in.
Mitch McConnell was playing hardball. His supporters wanted those breaks, his wealthy contributors, and he basically said the price of admission for this is giving those breaks to them, and then maybe he'll give just maybe a little bit of money, so that the vulnerable can try to scrape by.
CUOMO: Is this - is it true that McConnell was doing Trump's bidding on this that he got a lobbying call from Wolfgang Puck, and that Puck wasn't even asking for the tax deduction. He was asking for business interruption coverage, which is an insurance issue. But that Trump connected that "Hey, you know what? Hotels, golf
courses, like mine, you know, that's a good way to give to these corporate execs. And it's technically a restaurant thing."
Is that how this happened?
WYDEN: Donald Trump has talked off and on about this extra break, as if this was going to be a panacea for the economy. Even conservative economists don't share that view.
But what happened here is this was parachuted in at really the last minute. I'm the Ranking Democrat on the Finance Committee. We heard about it at the last minute.
And McConnell basically said "This is our demand for Democrats to get some help for folks, for example, who need the earned income tax credit," which, by the way, had a lot of Republican support over the years and rewards work.
CUOMO: You know, is that - I want to know your experience when you're in Committee. I know you got to work with these people.
But when you're talking pandemic, crisis, hunger, long lines, depression, this is the worst, generational illness, and they are saying, "Yes, we got to keep the number down, though. Let's avoid the "Trillion" price tag. That's tough to justify," how is this able to be treated as just some other budget negotiation?
WYDEN: Well, it shouldn't be because this was really particularly, and I think about those first few months, when we got a bipartisan bill.
If we hadn't had that money, $250 billion for people to make rent, and buy groceries, and pay for their kids' medicine, and car insurance, a lot of people have said it would have been much worse. So, these kinds of approaches, they're enormously important for our country.
[21:25:00]
That money, Chris, is spent locally. Unemployed folks don't take this money, and go out, and buy a bunch of fancy imported goods. They spend it local on groceries, and the stores, and that's why it's so important. You don't treat it like just another budget number.
CUOMO: You want to know what I want, from you, for Christmas, seeing how you asked.
WYDEN: Yes.
CUOMO: He didn't ask! Here is what. I want--
WYDEN: You want to play basketball?
CUOMO: No, you'll beat me.
I want snitches for Christmas. I want you to know that you have this show as a platform because we're going to need more work from you guys. We're going to need more help for people.
There is going to be pain after the holidays. There is going to be pain into the spring. There is going to be a need for more relief. And we need snitches.
We need people who are willing to say, "Hey, Toomey is asking for this crazy thing," or this one, or even if it's a Lefty, you know, "This person is asking for this crazy thing. We can't get it done." I need snitches for Christmas because it's the only way we'll get something to change.
And Senator Ron Wyden, you've always been a fair broker, in my experience. I wish you the best. You are always welcome here. Help us create better expectations out of Congress. I got to jump, but you're always welcome.
WYDEN: Chris, you got it. I've got DNA - I've got whistleblower DNA. We'll do it.
CUOMO: Thank you, Sir. Be well.
Two vaccines, now in play. Good, good. But I have been saying this, and we've got to get our hands around it. This is a gift getting these done. Operation Warp Speed, great idea, Trump & Co. The scientists who worked on it, what a body of all-stars! I hope you are up for huge prizes.
But are we going to waste it? I think we may waste it because we're not getting it together on the vaccines front. I know the General from - General Perna, just jumped on the grenade, said "It's my fault." It's not his fault!
Now, there is a mutation of the virus in Britain. What does that mean? You know it's going to come here. Does the vaccine work against it? Does it change what we have to do? And who is in charge?
Answers from the top medical minds, next.
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CUOMO: Some of you aren't paying attention to the vaccination effort. You're just like "Well it's here. It'll be fine." You're making a mistake. We're going to cover it every night because the logistics, getting it out, and distributing it, is everything.
Now there is a wrinkle. There is a new variant of the Coronavirus spreading quickly in the U.K. It's not speculation. It's fact.
60 percent of the new cases there are this variant. Spreads up to 70 percent faster, that's what they know about it, OK? Not that it makes you more sick, not that it doesn't - but it's spreading faster. Why? We don't know yet.
But it underscores how the virus refuses to wait as we figure out what we're doing. That's why I always say "The virus is the truth." If you lie about what you're doing, the virus is the truth. It always does what it does.
We know viruses mutate, OK? This is not something unheard of. This was always a race against time as a result. And we've shown you every night on this show the vaccination effort has stunk from day one. And we were worried that it would because they've never done anything like this, and there is no leadership at the top.
Congress finally appears willing to cough up the money they need, OK, $8 billion to distribute the vaccine. They're going to need more than that over time. But they needed it to get it going.
Not a single elected official that we've had on this show can answer who makes the call about how many doses go where. Can you imagine that?
We actually got an apology this weekend, but we didn't get answers.
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GEN GUSTAVE PERNA, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: I am responsible. And I take responsibility for the miscommunication.
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CUOMO: Now, look, we're asking for the General to come on. It's not happening. OK. That's the reality in Trump-World. People don't want to come on and discuss what they're doing.
But Perna is logistics. He is the middleman. He's carrying out the mission. He's not making the calls. I think he's being too good the soldier on that saying "It's me." I don't think it stops with him.
The numbers that "He" promised states were based off how many doses Pfizer makes rather than how many make it through the FDA quality control process. So, we got a couple of questions.
Why didn't the General in charge of distribution know about this fundamental step in the process? And also, you know, because by the way, it's written into the FDA's Emergency Use Authorization. The step is in there. So, how did you not know?
And why are 20 percent to 40 percent of the doses allotted to some states getting hung up in QC, in quality control? What about the batches that do get through?
Who is keeping track of where the stuff is going? Who is letting us know? Especially now that you have the Moderna vaccine, going directly to providers like CVS, that's going to be even harder to track.
The CDC launched its own vaccine tracker, vax-track. But it's more about the appearance of transparency. This isn't cynicism. It's at best skepticism, but I think it's truth. Here is why.
The site has a total of two numbers, and no context, distributed doses and administered doses. So, what they got sent and how many they gave to people. But it doesn't say where they went. It doesn't say when more are coming.
There is no breakdown, which is Pfizer, which is Moderna. There is no breakdown on well what category are these people in and why, in which communities? You know what I'm saying?
It doesn't tell us to whom they were administered? Health care workers? Nursing home patients? Members of the Senate? You know what I'm saying? Why not?
Transparency is truth. It always is. Nobody hides numbers they're proud of. And that's why now we're getting stuck in a box where we're going to have to rely on states. And why would they be more honest, if things don't go well?
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Governor after governor, they're showing their photo-ops, they're showing themselves, you know, a nation of small arms, getting needless. But they're not telling us the whole story. Even private groups, like Johns Hopkins, are only getting data from less than half the states.
I tell - I've never been more sure about anything that I've talked to you about. This is going to be a problem. The case surge is going to get worse.
People are going to wise up. They're going to want a - this vaccine because it's the only escape from this monotony of wondering "When you are going to get it. When is your community going to shut down? When is your school going to get shut down?" This is the only out.
The demand is going to be there, if not now, in time, and the supply may or may not be, and the distribution will be everything.
We officially topped 18 million cases this evening, as hospitalizations again climb to a new high, above 115,000.
So, let's talk about what these problems are, and how are they fixable, and make sure that I'm right on the science about how we have to worry about this new U.K. variant because you know it's going to come here.
Look at all the people that are flying to the U.K. right now for the holidays. Why would you fly to a place that has a new strain of the virus?
Joining us now Michael Osterholm, and Andy Slavitt, thank you to you both.
Let me talk science first, OK? Andy, am I right about the variant that it's spreading faster, but not making people sicker, and it will probably come here? Am I missing something or no?
ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES: That's what we know so far. And you said it exactly right. We have these mutations occur.
The good news is that the body can create an immune response, Dr. Fauci tells me, then you can create a vaccine. So, to this point, what we know is this is spreading more rapidly, so we think. But the clinical manifestations are exactly the same.
But here is what's misleading. If - would you rather have the old virus or this virus inside a nursing home, something that spreads more rapidly can be more deadly just simply by spreading more rapidly.
CUOMO: This--
SLAVITT: And Michael will tell you the science behind that.
CUOMO: No, I don't want to know the science. I'll tell you why. It doesn't matter. If it's spreading faster, you want it less. We get that.
By the way, Michael, congratulations, being brought into public service even more so on this, the Director of the University of Minnesota's Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy.
I loved having you on the show, and I remember after having you, on the show being like, "All right, great, put him on the list. This is one guy who actually knows what he's talking about." So, I'm glad you're going to be helping the rest of the country, Michael.
Now, the science doesn't matter. It's spreading faster, fine. Nobody's going to understand the science. Here is what we do understand. This logistics thing seems like it's shaping up to be a nightmare.
I don't think Perna is making the calls on who gets how much of what. He may have missed the FDA step. But do you believe that General Perna is the end of the accountability chain about who is making the decisions about our distribution of vaccine?
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, MEMBER, BIDEN COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD, INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH & POLICY DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well I don't know that. I can't comment on who's actually making the decisions.
What I can comment on is I do have tremendous confidence in the state and local health departments. Once they get the resources they need to distribute this vaccine that it will get distributed appropriately. And I think you're going to see some real change in the next several
weeks in the way in which the vaccine is distributed, how much information is publically available. And, as you said, it has to be 100 percent transparent. We need to know that. And I think that's going to happen.
CUOMO: But what if they don't have the money, like even Minnesota?
OSTERHOLM: Well--
CUOMO: You guys are hard-hit there. And they cheaped you, on this relief bill, in terms of giving you the money for the distribution.
OSTERHOLM: Well, what I understand right now, in the bill, there actually is money for distribution to state and local health departments. And we'll see what's finally signed and sealed. But, at this point, what we had, at least a day ago, was resources for distribution.
CUOMO: Absolutely. I'm just saying it's not enough. And I'm not saying because it's never enough.
OSTERHOLM: Yes.
CUOMO: I mean like it's really not enough. But we'll see how it plays out. Now, Andy, Michael, in no way is, this a criticism.
Andy, no one I've talked to, on Biden's team, or around Operation Warp Speed, and I'm telling you, I'm deep on people around Operation Warp Speed, nobody knows who is making the call of how much the vaccine actually gets delivered to places. What does that tell you?
SLAVITT: Look, I wish I could tell you that this administration had earned the benefit of the doubt over time. And then we'd say "Oh, there's someone that must be doing it."
Unfortunately, over time, what we've learned with this administration is they play it close to the vest until they - until they get discovered having made a mistake. Then we tend to hear one explanation.
And the first thing we heard from Alex Azar, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, was that it was Pfizer's fault. Then, of course, we hear a different explanation. And, over time, as you guys do your jobs, you can't keep these secrets for very long.
So, this is - this is probably disorganization and early chaos. This is probably not anything more evil than that. These things happen.
And I'd love to say that this is a competent information - competent administration's dropped the ball on this one little thing. But I can't say that. I mean, imagine if Apple shipped 20 percent to 40 percent fewer iPhones than were ordered.
CUOMO: Right.
SLAVITT: That would be not good.
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CUOMO: Right.
SLAVITT: It's not normal.
CUOMO: I'm with you. But at least you know they were coming from Apple, and there'd be somebody who you knew were at the top of the distribution change - chain.
Michael, the concern becomes you guys are going to take this over. And if it's screwed up in the beginning, it's not easy to fix, because you're going to have such big numbers that you're dealing with, and such need, and so much blame, and scrutiny, and people sick. Are you worried about what you inherit?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, again, being on the Advisory Board, I don't really have anything to do directly with that.
But I can tell you, there are transition team members, who are working very, very closely with the current administration, who are actually looking at detailed plans so that the Biden/Harris administration hits the ground running, on January 20th. That part I feel very confident in.
And I have a tremendous confidence overall in what will happen after January 20th.
CUOMO: I'm with you. And I wish I could say "You know what? Michael is right. The guys who are actually in there, in the nut and bolt level, those men and women, they don't - they know."
I talked to Rick Bright the other day, you know, again, a guy who lives up to his surname, he doesn't know either. I'm telling you, there is something very worrisome about this process. And it's going to be the most important process in this country for the next eight months.
Michael Osterholm, thank you very much.
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
CUOMO: Good luck advising these men and women. They're going to need it.
Andy Slavitt, I'm going to lean on you like a Sherpa, going forward, so hopefully we can get through this together. Be well.
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
CUOMO: Best for the holidays, gentlemen.
All right, more pandemic relief is going to be needed. Tonight's bill is not enough, OK? And this isn't some typical "Oh, it's never enough. All we do is wait." This is your money, all right? These are tax dollars.
Now, how quickly, how well do things get done the next time? Georgia is going to be a big decider in that. You saw what the Republicans will do with this. They have been programmed to not care about this pandemic the way they should. That came from the top.
Now where does this state of play stand in Georgia? I've got the latest numbers with the Wizard of Odds, next.
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CUOMO: Georgia matters, the two senate runoffs. If the Democrats win, they control both houses. Is this a good time for balance in government? That's a question that Georgia is going to answer for us, OK?
Now, there is a turnout story developing down there that we did not expect, for context, Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten.
We are supposed to see a depressed turnout number in a special election because all the hype went out with the real election. But what did we just find out here?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER & ANALYST: Yes. I mean, this, to me, is the biggest development that we've seen.
Look at this. So far, ballots cast, as of this morning, 15 days before the election, 1.5 million so far. Compare that to the November election, back a few months ago, at this exact same point, that morning reporting, 1.5 million, no drop-off, Chris, no drop-off. This is very unusual.
Go back to the last time that there was a special senate election, back in 2008, when it was a presidential year. Look at that drop-off between the general election, where nearly 4 million votes were cast, and the runoff election totaled 2 million, about half as many votes cast.
We are not seeing that right now. And that's a variable that I honestly just did not expect to see what we're seeing at this point.
CUOMO: Do we think it's going to die through the holidays? Did 2008 go through the holidays also? You know what I mean? Do we know that this is as good as it will get?
ENTEN: Yes. That's a big question that I'm not sure we do know the answer to.
The runoff that occurred, back in 2008, that occurred in December. This one, of course, is occurring in January. So, that is a big question mark. I'm not sure of the answer to that.
That's one of the beautiful things. Sometimes, even the Wizard of Odds doesn't know the answer, and that's why we have to stay tuned. But, in terms of who this might help out, right, I think that's the ultimate question, I think this gives you a really good indication.
African-American turnout in this so far runoff election, ballots cast 15 days before the election, African-Americans are making up 32 percent of the electorate. At this exact same point, in the November election, it was just 31 percent.
I thought there was going to be a considerably larger drop-off. And part of the reason, I thought that is if you go back, historically, right, go back to that 2008 example, what you saw in that particular year was on the run-off, the Black percentage of the runoff electorate was just 28 percent versus that round one 30 percent.
So, this is good news for Democrats, this idea that Black voters wouldn't necessarily turnoff for a runoff is not coming true in the numbers, which obviously we still have 15 days to go, so we'll have to see how it ultimately works out.
CUOMO: It will also be interesting for guys like us to see if Trump people stayed home because they were angry that Georgia didn't do enough to try to steal the election for Trump. But this is a big surprise. We didn't expect to see it.
Harry Enten, thank you very much brother. I appreciate this.
ENTEN: My pleasure, Sir.
CUOMO: All right, we have an extraordinary Ameri-CAN with us tonight, a first responder, who answered the call, in the middle of a flight, when another passenger showed what may have been the terrible sudden impact of COVID.
The story is sad, OK? But we have to know this, not just to see the courage of the best of us, but what we have to accept for the rest of us, next.
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CUOMO: Cross-country flight last week became this.
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CUOMO: What is that? That is somebody feverishly doing chest compressions on another passenger's body because the passenger suffered cardiac arrest about 20 minutes after lift-off.
At the time, it was suspected he had COVID. Why? Because people heard him coughing, he was having trouble breathing. But that didn't stop the three health care workers onboard, from jumping in. For nearly an hour, they took turns performing CPR, even as the plane landed. Unfortunately, the man died.
But one of those responders is here, and his name is Tony Aldapa.
And let me tell you, it is an honor to have you on our air.
TONY ALDAPA, EMT WHO GAVE CPR TO PASSENGER WITH COVID-19 SYMPTOMS ON FLIGHT: Thank you. It's definitely an honor to be here with you.
CUOMO: I'm sorry he didn't live. But your job is to try. And you were on the plane and you hear, pretty early on, "I think this guy has COVID." Doesn't stop you, why?
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ALDAPA: I mean, that's - that's the world we live in right now. I work in an emergency room in Los Angeles. And it's unfortunate. But, right now, we have to treat everybody, as if they do have COVID, and until we know for sure that they don't.
My whole mindset that whole time was that this individual needed CPR, and regardless of anything else that he could have had, CPR was the primary thing that he needed at that moment in time.
CUOMO: But if he had COVID, he shouldn't have been flying, and you might get it, and there were other people there who could have done it. You didn't have to do it. You did it anyway. Why?
ALDAPA: That's, you know, for me, I spent - I spent eight years in the Navy. I've worked with the Fire Department. I worked as an EMT. I had great training from Strategic Operations, down in San Diego. So, for me, everything just fell back on training. That's what I've done for over a - over a decade now. And it's kind of
become second nature. When you see something, you got to do something. That's what happened that night.
I saw something, and I like how you did mention that there were two other individuals doing CPR. It seems like I've gotten a lot of the spotlight. I wish I knew who they were, so I can reach out to them too.
But it was a team effort. It wasn't all me. There were two other people doing CPR. There were people handling all of the medical equipment around us. I mean the flight crew was amazing.
It was, like I said, it was a team effort. It's unfortunate I'm the only one that's getting, like I said, getting the spotlight. But there are a lot other people who deserve a lot of thanks for this, too.
CUOMO: And then you get home, and this is your job. This is what you do.
California is blowing up with cases. It's going to get worse after the holidays because people are going to move around, and they're not masking up enough. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. And it's going to be bad.
Are you still going to go in there and do the job, or you've had enough?
ALDAPA: This is the job I've signed up for. It's something I've, like I said, I've trained for, over a decade. This is my life. I love helping people, in any capacity, in the military, Fire Department, medical field, you know, I love what I do.
I'm surrounded by a great team of doctors and nurses at the VA hospital. So, the first day that they say I could be back at work, I'll be there. I wouldn't say bright and early, because I work the night shift. But I'll definitely be there, and I'll be doing my job to the best of my abilities.
CUOMO: Have you had it? Are you afraid of getting it?
ALDAPA: I haven't had it. Fortunately, I've tested negative. I have been experiencing some symptoms.
A lot of the nurses that I do work with, at the VA, they've unfortunately caught it, at one point in time, during the pandemic. And I think we're all kind of in the mindset, that if it happens, it happens. We have a job to do. Our job is to take care of the people that need to be taken care of.
CUOMO: You're feeling symptoms now, since you got off the plane?
ALDAPA: Correct. The first couple of days afterwards, I was real tired. I was exhausted. My body was hurting. But I attributed that to doing CPR for almost an hour. But, as the days went by, I started developing a cough, had a
headache, kind of still dealing with a little bit of that right now. Fortunately, if the symptoms I have, are from COVID, I've gotten lucky, they've been very mild. I haven't had a fever. I still have all my senses.
So, like I said, I've been fortunate, if this is COVID-related. I have tested negative twice now. I plan on getting tested again tomorrow. Then I'm going to go from there. And, like I said, as soon as I get back to work, I'll be at work.
CUOMO: When can you get the vaccine?
ALDAPA: The vaccine, it's at the VA hospital right now. I know a lot of the staff is getting vaccinated. I was scheduled to actually receive the vaccine last week. But since I was showing signs of an illness, it was advised that I don't get the vaccine at the--
CUOMO: Right.
ALDAPA: --at that time. As soon as I'm cleared, I will.
CUOMO: That's an important public service announcement also. A lot of people think that you get the vaccine, and it cures you, so that, you know?
ALDAPA: Right.
CUOMO: And it doesn't do that, obviously, and now you're proof of that that if you have any symptoms, they actually don't want you to get it.
I just want you to know something. It's not unusual that you don't recognize what you mean to the rest of us. And that's cool, Tony. It's cool that you just see yourself as doing the job. But you really aren't.
ALDAPA: Thank you, Sir.
CUOMO: You are keeping hope alive for people in this country, that there's still good people. There are still people who do good things just because--
ALDAPA: Thank you, Sir. Appreciate that.
CUOMO: Don't appreciate it. I appreciate it. You live it. You've given your service to this country. You're doing it now. It might have made you sick. You just keep going, because it's the right thing. And God bless you for that.
Thank you for letting us know that there is virtue that--
