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Mother Of Teen Shot By Police: "The Killing Needs To Stop"; Nation Grapples With How To Move Forward On Police Reform; Biden Commits U.S. To Cutting Emissions By At Least Half. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired April 22, 2021 - 21:00   ET



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: A lot of us through some very, very difficult times.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Oh, absolutely! And I know you were obviously joking, saying, "Hey, you really been here 20 years?"

Because you guys, when you and he, are together, on a story, anywhere in the world, the humanity that's brought to bear, and the relative acumen, you know, obviously, nobody's been in tough times more than you, when it comes to coverage, in our generation of journalists, and with his medical acumen, it's just an amazing combination. And it has been now for a long time.

He's got some years on you, here at CNN.

COOPER: I'm not sure.

CUOMO: But what if - what if--

COOPER: I'm getting close.

CUOMO: --what if - take the discount.

COOPER: Yes, thanks.

CUOMO: But it's great to remind him. And he also reminds of the great work this place does, especially when you guys are side-by-side. It's nice to see him recognized.

Take care, my friend.

COOPER: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Good to see you.

All right, I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.

Another policing story ends in a funeral. That means we have another chance to ask if one person's end, this time, 20-year-old Daunte Wright, killed by a cop, who thought she had a Taser out, will this end, create a beginning for change? Now, like most social problems, this is complicated, right? Half of

you say, "Black people have a better chance of being struck by a lightning than by a cop!" Then why are so many people of color, looking up at the sky, so often?

"Let's look at the data," you say. That's as much a false corridor as it is, to any kind of path to reality. How do you want to assess?

How many are killed by race? Armed or unarmed? You want to do crime by race? You want to do raw or by percentage of population? How about by police contacts? How about by community?

How about our stops that don't result in arrests, or how about arrests or use-of-force as a function of type of stop? How about stop-and- frisk versus compliance versus a culture of subservience being forced upon a people?

When you look at it that way, we'd rather avoid the numbers, right? It's easier to say, "I support Black Lives Matter!" or "I support the Blue!" But what do we know? That conflict, that polarity, is the reason for the bruise on our society. We can't be a Black and Blue society.

It has to be about what this country is about, for everyone. And that idea gets so daunting that we can't wait to forget about Daunte. Of course, there's a pull to move away, if only to avoid the pain, if only to pretend it's just so pointless, to avoid the problem, and all its complications.

But I have to ask, aren't enough of you just tired of shrugging your shoulders? This is the time to stick. And I don't mean pile on, I don't mean demonize police. The changes that we need are to help the police as much as to help anyone.

But we have been doing it wrong by cycling from crisis to crisis, because there's always a case. There was a case, as we waited on the Floyd case verdict.

Then, before we could get straight, on what happened, and why a cop may have had to shoot 16-year-old Ma'Khia Bryant, as she lunged at another kid, with a knife, there came another case, a man killed by Police in North Carolina.

How did serving a search warrant turn deadly? Now in that case, we have a familiar problem. No bodycam video. Transparency is everything, especially when there is so little trust among those in the minority.

A big reason that the Bryant shooting kept people from the streets was that we all got to see what happened. She was charging at two other girls with a knife, on Tuesday. One got knocked to the ground. The other is the girl in the pink sweatsuit.

The officer, first to arrive on the scene, he did have a split-second decision to make. You may not like it. But that is the decision. There are too many where we can't see that reality. Then you say, "Well, but why are people upset here?" Well, first of all, they're upset because a kid died, and because there's something else that you have to recognize. There's not trust between Police and these communities. They've been kept in the dark, on too many cases, to trust easily. So, even when they can see it, they are left wondering.

There was another case in Columbus, Ohio. Did you know this, back in December? A Police officer named Adam Coy shot Andre Hill, who was a guest, at his friend's home, not an intruder.

A neighbor had called in a complaint. There was a car, sitting in front of his house, being turned on and off. Cops come. They find a Black man in the garage. They tell him to lift his hands. Guess what he does? He lifts his hands, has a cell phone in it.


The other hand is obscured. As it starts to come out, the officer gets spooked. "Gun! Gun! Gun! Gun!" shoots him four times. No weapon recovered at the scene. The officer now charged with murder.

"Oh? See, system worked!" you say. Hardly! The answer is not simply to punish what's done wrong, when a life is lost. And by the way, punishment has turned out to be very challenging.

But the key is to figure out not just why it went wrong, but why can't it go right, for people who are Black, as often as it does for people who are White.

What I mean is there are so many instances of cops acting differently towards White suspects, who even actually have weapons, who are like openly hostile to them, and they don't get taken down with deadly force.

Just last week, police say this guy, trapped a cop's arm, in his truck window, while attempting to flee, police say. We all saw it in the video. There's video of it. He drags an officer away hanging by his arm, later attacks the officer, with his own rescue hammer.

Look at him. He looks like they laid a hand on him? That's how he was arrested.

"Well, I thought you said they're not supposed to hit him!" The point is that people who are minorities want to wind up looking like this, when people from their number gets arrested.

How about this guy? Bodycam shows a suspect, while back in North Carolina, attacking a Deputy, with a knife, and reportedly stabbing him. What did the Deputy do? Used a Taser, not a gun, arrested alive. The police officer did the job the right way.

The police officer's job sucks that he has to get involved in this. But he didn't shoot him. Why not? Now, I don't want him to have shot him. Would he have shot him if he were Black? "Oh, we can't answer that." Yes, we can. That's the point. How about this guy in Florida? He allegedly attacked his family, and was wielding a knife, as cops arrived, and the officers reportedly pulled out Tasers, and were eventually able to apprehend him.




CUOMO: Would it have been different? I don't have cases to show you, where people are Brown and Black in that situation.

Now look, if you want to go case-for-case, I'm happy to do that. There is this supposition thrown out all the time. "Man, this happens to White people way more." Show me the cases. Not one here, one there.

If it happens that much more, and we, White people, are well over 50 percent of the population, show me the regular flow of cases, of people who don't deserve it, who get their ass whooped, and worse, by police.

Now, by the way, you know what the truth is, then? Now, you'll agree that there must be a problem with policing, right? But more specifically, you don't see that flow of cases. You just hear the mention, because they don't exist.

I don't want to cover these cases anymore. I don't like it. They don't juice the numbers. That's all BS. If I just move on, then I know what happens. We wait for the next one that is so unbelievable that we have to go back to it. I'm telling you it's a mistake.

We have to continue the conversation. We have to stick. And I want to do that tonight with the better minds, Van Jones and Anthony Barksdale.

It's good to see you both.

One thing that we can correct, Commissioner Barksdale, the body camera footage has to come out.

Now, in the beginning, they didn't want to get the bodycams. Now more and more, everybody's getting the bodycams. In the beginning, there was this false argument set up. "Well, you know, can be very prejudicial, when you see it out of context." "No, you show all of it," is the opposite of prejudicial.

Now, it's about the timing of release. The North Carolina case, I alluded to, the police haven't released it. Is there any good reason, from the police perspective, the job you did, as Commissioner, to withhold tape?

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, FORMER BALTIMORE CITY DEPUTY POLICE COMMISSIONER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Chris, transparency is everything. The minority communities, they don't have the trust in the system. They don't have a process (ph), in many police departments. To release footage, as soon as possible, should be the goal of all, at

the top of these departments, over in the politicians' rooms. Get it released. Let the citizen see what happened. And I know you've pushed over and over again that bodycams need to be out there.

CUOMO: It helps everybody.


Look, Van, look at the situation, a horrible loss of a child.

And I don't know why people are coming at me because she was a good- size kid. Still a kid! 16-years-old, you could be four foot eight, 50 pounds, you could be six foot two, and a 180 pounds, what's the difference?

16-year-old kid, if you didn't have that bodycam video, and you just had to hear the officer's representations of it, we would not be where we are right now. Transparency matters. How?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it matters, because what you said early on, which was so heartbreaking to hear, but it's so true, which is there just is no trust. And without trust, nothing works.

And so how do you get from no trust to more trust? You, first of all, you got to acknowledge you got a problem.

And you got a bunch of people on another network that won't even acknowledge that we have a problem. Maybe some people are overstating, might be some people are understating it. But clearly, we have a problem.

And then you begin to build - do trust-building measures. And one of those things is put out the information, put out the data.

And, by the way, what happens is, when there's cover-ups, like there was, in the case that we just went through, where the initial statement was a lie, from the Police Department, not from the officer, from the Police Department.

Don't forget, in the Chauvin situation, with George Floyd, the Police Department said it was just a medical incident. They had the bodycam footage, but they still put out a lie. So, now they're under investigation by the Fed.

But now you will have, in a few more years, you'll have a lot more trust, in whatever's going on in that community, because you got a Police Chief that fired the cop. You got a Police Chief that put out the right information. You got a Police Chief that testified. You got the verdict (ph).

Now, you can begin to build - to rebuild some trust. But the reality is that right now, there is no trust, and so, every one of these cases is tough. And let me just say one more thing, Chris. People always say, "Well, Van, you never talk about the street violence. You never talk about what's going on." That is a damn lie. That is a lie. They should quit saying that.

We have movements, "Silence The Violence," in Oakland, which I helped to get started. We go to more funerals than we want to.

The problem is when you got a community crushed between unlawful street violence, and unlawful police violence, when you don't have the trust, who do you call? When the street violence happens, you can't call the police, because they might come and make it worse. And when the police violence happens, you can't call anybody.

And so quit saying this crap. We are tired of going to funerals, when kids are killing kids, when cops are killing - we got too many funerals. So, and nobody's got a better interest in getting policing right than us.


JONES: Because we can't do anything about the street violence or the police violence until we get it fixed. If you care about us, help us get it fixed, and quit saying stuff that's not true.

We do candlelight vigil after candlelight vigil, movements in every city, against gun violence. And to say that those movements don't count, is a lie. Those movements are as big, or bigger, than Black Lives Matter. But you never support us, when we are marching in those movements.

CUOMO: Bark, I have a quick investigative point.


CUOMO: The cop in the Ma'Khia Bryant case, the reporting is that he was a trained sniper in the Military.

Now, if that is true, it explains why he had the confidence to take what is absolutely a hard shot. As somebody, with novice-level weapons training, as a gun owner, that's a tough shot, when somebody else is right there. He took the shot, hit with four rounds, did not hit the girl in pink.

But it also raises a question. Did he have to shoot four rounds? If he's that good a shot, could he have stopped with one or two, and increase the chance of survival, or is that not a fair question?

BARKSDALE: No, it's a fair question. One of the roles when you are - look, first of all, it's a tragedy. It's sickening to watch. And I am sorry for what happened.

But when you are shooting, officers are trained, whether he had prior Military experience, or not, they are taught to shoot to incapacitate. His perception, at the time, might be different than someone who thought that she was incapacitated with one shot, two shots or three shots.

And Chris, when you are in a situation like that, it happened so fast, four shots can happen in basically a blink of an eye. And the threat was stopped, at that point.

You telling me about his background, about being a sniper, OK, now I get it because I expressed some concern, of shooting, so close, to the young lady in the pink. But four shots, the young lady was incapacitated.

I'm not celebrating that. But that is the job. That is the training.

JONES: Can I say something about?

CUOMO: I'll give you the last word, Van. Go ahead.


JONES: Yes, the thing I want people to think about is supposedly you pulled the gun out, and the gun had jammed, would you have just stood there, or would you have gone over there, closed the distance, and done something? So I'm not - I understand it--

BARKSDALE: Tap it, whack it, and go.

JONES: What?

BARKSDALE: If the gun jams--

CUOMO: Say again, Bark.

BARKSDALE: Gun jams?


BARKSDALE: Tap it, whack it, go, get back into action. That's the - that's the muscle memory of it. But Van, I understand exactly what you're saying. Would he de-escalate to another--

JONES: Right.

BARKSDALE: --way to get to? I understand that.

CUOMO: Right.

BARKSDALE: But if he's prime Military sniper, with the training, he's taught to get back into action, and do what he's supposed to do.

JONES: All I want to just point out is that for law enforcement, around the world, they don't have guns in the first place. Now, in our country, we got an armed citizenry, you have to have an armed police force, I understand that.

But just understand that other, if you're in the U.K., somebody has a knife, you're trained to get the knife away from them without shooting them. They come at you with a - with a stick or a bottle. Our officers are trained mainly on weapons because that's where we are at.

But just imagine a world where whatever that cop would have done, as the gun didn't work, that was his first go-to instead of his second. That's the only thing that we're asking. We just want our kids to have the same opportunity to survive their dumbest mistakes as every other kid has.

CUOMO: I'm with you.

JONES: That's all we're asking for.

CUOMO: I'm with you.


CUOMO: And I hate, not you, never could, I hate that we talk about your kids and my kids, as if--

JONES: Fair point.

CUOMO: --but for - but for color. They all bleed out the same way. We've seen that. But I will say this, and I've heard this a lot, and it's probably an interview I should have gotten.

I should find the parent of the young lady, if they're alive, in the pink sweatsuit, because if you're the parent of the kid, in the pink sweatsuit, you don't want to know about what Plan B was, with somebody lunging at your kid, with a knife.

And I hate it. And I hate that it happened. And I hate that the choice has to be made. And I understand now, better today, because of you, and to help us some others, why even though this situation seems like you can explain it, may not like the explanation, but you can explain it, it still hurts.


CUOMO: And it reminds of an inexorable, an endless, an implacable, an unimaginable situation, where you don't get a break, if your skin is Brown. I hear you. I feel you. That's why I'm doing the story tonight.

Van Jones, as always, Anthony Barksdale, I like the Commissioner, so much, I gave him a nickname "Bark," just started calling him that, because the only guy I know with that name, other than him, that's what I call him.

Be well, both. Thank you very much.

BARKSDALE: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Look, here's what we know. We're going to talk more about the Ma'Khia Bryant story. Why?

It is not a great case to show police not doing the right thing, but because of that confusion for people. "I don't get why are - why are people upset about this?" Well, one, you lost the kid. Two, because it seems like there's never a good ending, it never goes any other way. And when you lose a kid, a family loses everything, OK?

Ma'Khia Bryant had a mother. She's here tonight. Who was her kid? Why was she in that house? What does her loss mean? Next.









CUOMO: We spend a lot of time, in these cases, talking about the officer, why, because they're the ones, who were trained for situations like this. We're worried to make sure that we're kept safe by the people who have to keep us safe. And they are the ones who work for us. But we don't want to lose sight of what was lost.

And this isn't about deifying people. It's not about being dishonest about who they were. It's about reminding that they were, that they are people, in this case, in Columbus, Ohio, young people, OK?

Ma'Khia Bryant was 16-years-old. Her life, the pain her family is feeling, it matters.

Joining me now is her mother, Paula Bryant.

And Ms. Bryant, I'm very sorry to meet you under these circumstances. But I also don't want your child to only be known by the incident that ended her life.


I want the world to know that Ma'Khia Bryant was a very lovely 16- year-old girl. She was my daughter, my baby. I loved her. She was very talented and smart. She was funny. Her favorite color was blue.

And I'm just so hurt right now. I'm grieving. You have to excuse me. I'm grieving right now.

CUOMO: You do not need any excuse, ma'am.


CUOMO: I totally understand. And I appreciate you putting words to the face in the name for us.

And let's talk about your experience for a second. How did you learn about what happened to your daughter?

BRYANT: I had a phone call. And I was at the dentist's office, in Columbus, Ohio. And I got - the phone rang. And I said "Excuse me, I have to get this." I got the phone. I said "Hello." And I got the disturbing news that Ma'Khia was shot. And I said "What?"


And the phone was on speaker. And the dentist's assistant said "We completely understand. I'm going to help you." She helped me out the chair. She said "You have to go. We'll reschedule." And my heart was beating fast, and I didn't know what to think.

And no parent should have to go through this. I can't - no parent should have to go through this. This is so unreal. The hurt that I feel, I'm devastated. I was shocked when I heard the news. It was unbelievable. It's still unbelievable.

CUOMO: Have you been able to bring yourself to watch the video?

BRYANT: Yes, I have. But I, to tell you the truth, I can't. Right now, I'm - I'm grieving. And I can't even watch it to the end. I can't.

I want to remember Ma'Khia, the good things about Ma'Khia, the loving things about Ma'Khia. That's what God wants me to do. I am in God's hands. Ma'Khia, I believe, is in heaven. She's an angel.

I don't know if you could see, but I have this mask.

And God is our dainty and making a path for us right now. He's given me strength every day. And I have faith, I have faith in God. Because God will not put too much on you that you can't bear, you know? And I'm putting everything, everything, this whole situation, even Ma'Khia is in God's hands.

CUOMO: On your mask, you have your daughter's full name. What was her full name?

BRYANT: Yes, I do.

CUOMO: I can't read it.

BRYANT: OK. Her name was Ma'Khia. And she's named after a male prophet in the Bible. And her middle name, she has two middle names. That is our family tradition. And it's Zhi'Riana Ty'Lea (ph) Bryant.

CUOMO: And is there a family significance or other significance to those names?

BRYANT: Yes. You know that - that runs in my family tradition of two middle names. So, I'm a single mother of five kids. And now, Ma'Khia is gone. And I only have four kids. And I can't. That is so hard for me to say.

CUOMO: Let me ask you this. For people, who are learning about your daughter, as a function of this incident, in this midst of this big national conversation about policing, and, what do you want people to know?

BRYANT: The killing needs to stop. There's been too many killings in the world. I want the killing to stop.

I've always had sympathy for the Breonna Taylor story, and her family, and her friends, and her situation. And now, I know what it feels like to lose a child. Ma'Khia is gone. And I want the killing in the world to stop. And that's what Ma'Khia would want.

Ma'Khia was peaceful. She was loving. She wanted everybody to get along. She was a Christian. And that's what I want to say. I want the world to stop this killing.

CUOMO: Paula, I know this is a hard time for you. And I appreciate you taking the opportunity, to give people, another look at your daughter, other than where she is, in the current context of our national conversation. And I appreciate you taking that opportunity, knowing that it's painful.

BRYANT: You're welcome.

CUOMO: And I am very sorry for your loss.

BRYANT: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, you know how to get us. If there's any way that we can help, we're a phone call away. God bless going forward.

BRYANT: Thank you. God bless you.

CUOMO: All right, we're going to take a break.


When we come back, the humanity that we should feel, no matter how you feel about the scenario, no matter how you feel, how somebody should be accounted for, for what they did, in that moment, you can't lose the sense of humanity. And we have a special guest tonight, who connects that idea to culture and behavior.

When your humanity is not regarded or respected, and you know it, and you know it from others, and you know, from your own experience, and know from how you feel, and how you feel you're seen, what does that do? What does that mean? How big a part of this problem that we're having? Is that reality?

I want you to hear this really talented author make the case for how we have to see what's happening here. Next.







CUOMO: There's something that you often hear with police encounters and people of color. "Why didn't they just comply? All of this would have been averted, if they just complied." Listen.


ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mr. Floyd had simply gotten in the backseat of a squad car do you think that he would have survived?


DR. JONATHAN RICH, CARDIOLOGIST/EXPERT WITNESS: I think he would have gone home, or wherever he was going to go, had he not been subjected to the prone and positional restraint that he was.

NELSON: So, in other words, if he had gotten in the squad car, he'd be alive.

BRIAN PETERS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MINNESOTA POLICE AND PEACE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION: He set off a chain of events that, unfortunately led to his death... what we're seeing in policing these days is that non- compliance by the public.


CUOMO: Is that the truth?

My next guest has an understanding that many of you may not that we misunderstand compliance, we misunderstand its effect, and we misunderstand its significance. And My guest is Ibram X. Kendi, Author of "How to Be an Antiracist," and joins me now.

Pleasure to meet you.


CUOMO: What do people miss when they say "Just comply?"

KENDI: First, they miss all the people who in fact, did comply, whether it's Philando Castile, who complied and still died, or even more recently, Adam Toledo, who complied to the police officer's orders, to stop, to drop it, to turn around, to show your hands, but was still killed.

And they also miss that, throughout American history, Black people, other groups of people, were told that it was our fault, if we died, not the fault of the perpetrators.

CUOMO: So, you say compliance is a myth. Then what does that mean about what the problem is, when you have altercations?

KENDI: I think what that means is that oftentimes, these altercations, in which police officers could have de-escalated the situation, in which police officers could have not chosen to use lethal force, in which police officers could have acted, as if they cared, for the lives of the people, who they were policing, and instead of them recognizing that, instead of us collectively recognizing that, instead, they blame the people who are shot, the people who are - who were killed, the families who are grieving, to say "Only if they would have complied."

As if, even when we comply, and I can tell you this personally, Chris, you know, when I get pulled over, when I get stopped, by a police officer, and I comply fully, and I survived, I still feel lucky. That should not be the case.

CUOMO: What would make a difference? What could we do that you believe would create better outcomes?

KENDI: Well, I think we need to completely reimagine policing. We need to completely transform the problem.

So, we live in a country where people imagine that communities, particularly Black communities, are dangerous, because of those dangerous Black people.

And in many ways, Americans, and even police officers, refer to Black people as "Animals," just as politicians refer to Latinx immigrants as "Animals," and it's imagine that there's higher levels of violent crime, because there's something wrong with those people, as opposed to those people are deprived of resources and jobs and opportunities.

So, we're flooding communities, with police, with guns, with tanks, with prison cells, as opposed to resources. So, I think we have to completely reimagine how to make our nation safe.

CUOMO: What do you think will make that happen?

KENDI: I think first and foremost, if we can recognize that Black people are not dangerous, people of color are not dangerous, what is in fact, dangerous is poverty, what is in fact, dangerous is long-term unemployment, what is in fact, dangerous is things that many Americans are facing, which then leads to crime, which then leads to violence.

And I think we have to get at the root of crime and violence and despair. And for whatever reason, we think the roots are people's skin color. And that's certainly not the roots.

CUOMO: I always tell people when they want to play with numbers, and they say, "You know, the police go hard on White people a lot more," I say, "Adjust for poverty." That's where you'll see that the numbers are similar. Still, apples-to-apples, it's going to be worse in communities of color.

Poverty is the equalizer. Removing it will be the biggest agent. We've set it for a long time. We've known it's true. But we can't get there. [21:40:00]

Ibram Kendi, I have to say, your book is an eye-opener for people, if for no other reason than what's on the title. And it gets much better, as you read it. It's not just I'm not racist. It's how do you be anti- racist.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate you on the show. You have a place here.

KENDI: Thank you so much, Chris.


Now, peaceful assembly, in the Constitution, right? Doesn't mean that protest is always going to be 100 percent peaceful, right? People are going to yell. They're going to be outraged. They're angry. That's why they're there.

But you have a right to do it to say what you want. Be On the Look- Out. Maybe you don't anymore. Next.








CUOMO: BOLO, Be On the Look-Out. There's a wave of laws sold as increasing safety. Do they?

The Florida Governor signed a so-called "Anti-riot bill." This sounds good. The danger that he's calling out is so urgent he says that the law has to go into effect immediately.

The Governor himself said, "You know what the threat is? Black people making their voices heard."


GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): That's something that can potentially happen where you basically have justice meted out, because the jury is scared of what a mob may do.


CUOMO: Oh yes, that's how he explains the George Floyd murder verdict.

[21:45:00] So now, is he looking for love from the fringe, echoing a Fox fallacy that is as obvious, as what jurors identified in 9 minutes and 29 seconds of video? No, it's a political power move, part of more than 75 anti-protest bills, in 32 States just since January. That's more than double what we've seen ever in a year.

Just last week, we saw this same political party attack Dr. Fauci, over the infringement of liberties. Yet, you don't hear a word, from any of them, when a state actually restricts liberty, the right to vote, or in this case, the right to protest.

In Florida, it is now against the law to just be at a protest, where something violent happens. Check it, OK, not an exaggeration. Yet, in the articulation, of the reality of the threat, DeSantis sees, he never mentioned this, you know, the actual Riot that we watched unfold, on January 6th.

"They burned down their own communities." They hunted us at the Capitol. It was an insurrection. It was an act of terror. They attacked the cradle of our democracy, hunting our Members of Congress.

Odd that the same people, who ignore the insurrection, the same people who say "We don't need tougher hate crime laws, or common sense gun restrictions, because they're already statutes that make things like assault illegal," but now they feel the need to create two new crimes.

A felony called "Aggravated rioting," which carries a prison sentence of up to 15 years, and so-called "Mob intimidation," that's a misdemeanor.

But anyone charged with it can be rounded up, and, by law, must be denied bail, until their first court appearance. Bail, you know, what some members of the Proud Boys, and Oath Keepers were granted, after the worst act of domestic terror in a generation!

Look, everything you need to know about these laws can be found in what and who they are designed to protect.

Oklahoma just followed Florida's lead.

Iowa is also considering a bill to do this. Grant civil immunity, to protect drivers, who run over protesters, like that white nationalist did, in Charlottesville. Can you believe that somebody wants to protect your ability to have to pay for this?

A bill in Indiana wants to make sure no one follows in the footsteps of John Lewis. Being a part of "Good Trouble," like what we saw at the Edmund Pettus Bridge, that would prohibit you from holding any state employment.

In Minnesota, protesting would mean putting at risk your education, food to feed your family, or even your home.

Yet, in Florida, they made darn sure to protect Confederate statues, calling them so-called "Historic property." This is not subtle. It is not a coincidence. And it is not a

misunderstanding. This is another attempt to carve America into "Us" and "Them." So, Be On the Look-Out, because making laws, to discourage liberty, is about as far from the promise of America, as you can get.

We'll be right back.









CUOMO: In honor of Earth Day, President Biden kicked off a virtual climate summit, with 40 other world leaders, announcing an ambitious new goal, cut U.S. emissions by as much as 52 percent by the year 2030. It's nearly twice the level Obama pledged, back in 2015.

Critics on the Right? "See? He's a crazy Lefty!" Progressives? "See? He doesn't go far enough." What's the truth or TNT, Truth Not Told? Chris Cillizza has the answer.

Let's start with the Right pull, with the Left saying "Half measures! He's not one of us."

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, it's, I think Chris, this dates back to the campaign, and back to Joe Biden's sort of career in politics. He's a pragmatist. He's a deal- maker.

But if you look at the, you know, we're getting close to the first 100 days, if you look at the first 100-ish days, you see a lot of stuff that liberals should like. You mentioned, climate. I'll throw in D.C. statehood, which passed the House today, very uncertain in the Senate, but still a major issue that liberals have long pushed.

How about this Chris? $4 trillion, that's "Trillion" with a "T," trillion dollars in proposed spending, $2 trillion has already been passed, the $1.9 trillion on COVID stimulus, another $2 trillion on infrastructure?

These are proposals that if Barack Obama proposed them, if Bernie Sanders proposed a lot of them, liberals would really like. So, the Joe Biden they thought they were getting, deal-maker, cut deals with Mitch McConnell, we haven't seen too much of that just yet, at least, through 100 days. CUOMO: And that's why the Right says "Cillizza is right. This guy's a Commie!"


CUOMO: "He's a socialist! That's what he is!"


CUOMO: "And we told you he would be this! Trojan horse!"

CILLIZZA: This is the problem. So, Donald Trump spent a lot of time, during the campaign, calling Joe Biden a socialist. I don't think it ever really worked.

And I don't think this label has worked for Republicans either. I think one of the less-told stories of this first 100 days is that they haven't been able to find a good way to label Joe Biden effectively.

But here's why he's not a socialist. There's plenty of reasons. But he's not for Medicare-for-All. He, in our Town Hall, he was asked about canceling student debt - student loan debt, said "I'm not going to do that." He hasn't signed on to the Green New Deal.

And one other thing, Chris, the most popular thing, among liberals, right now, getting rid of the filibuster, in the Senate, the legislative filibuster entirely, right? Lots of Democrats saying "We should do this. Republicans are blockading, et cetera, et cetera," Joe Biden has said "No, I don't think we should do this," and he stuck to it.

So, I think what's happened is both sides of character Joe Biden, that's obviously what happens in our modern politics. You don't - you get a - you get a single-sided guy. You don't get a three-dimensional person.


But he's neither the sort of timid pragmatist, who's not going to do big things, of a bridge that a lot of people thought he was, on the Left, nor is he, at least so far, this wild-eyed socialist, who's going to fundamentally transform the American economy, and our way of life. He's something kind of in between those two things.

CUOMO: How about that? I wonder what we call those?

CILLIZZA: Truth Not Told.

CUOMO: Oh, reasonable!

Chris Cillizza, TNT, Truth Not Told, thank you very much. And we'll be right back.

CILLIZZA: Thank you, my friend.







CUOMO: We saw something positive come out of the Senate today. After more than a year of hate, against our Asian American brothers and sisters, today, Republicans and Democrats aligned, voting overwhelmingly to pass a bill to help fight back.

One exception, Senator Josh Hawley, ring a bell? This guy raised that fist, before the attempted coup at the Capitol. "I wave Hello to everybody." It's not a wave. He's the only no-vote, while 94 other lawmakers said "Yes."

The bill creates a new DOJ role to expedite reviews of COVID-related hate crimes and establishes online reporting for them. Right now, we have to rely on unofficial numbers, and these are probably undercounted.