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Cuomo Prime Time
Biden: Social Media Platforms Like Facebook "Killing People" With COVID Misinformation; Texas Federal Judge Rules DACA Unlawful, Blocks New Applicants; Amid Protests, Biden Calls Cuba A "Failed State". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 16, 2021 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This presidential funeral wraps up, going into next weekend.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Matt Rivers, appreciate it, thanks.
The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Coop, appreciate it. Have a good weekend.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
"Deep denial! How we made ourselves sick?" That is the story of America and the pandemic. And we are writing another dark chapter right now.
All 50 states, and Washington D.C., all of us, are reporting rises in new COVID cases, from a week ago. It's the first time that's happened since January, all 50 of us. 38 of them are seeing at least a 50 percent increase.
Hospitalizations, way up. Deaths, up. Why? Two reasons. One, the obvious. We're out. We're in contact. We knew this would happen.
It's the second one that we have to focus on. It's the real problem. The hope was the vaccine would even the stakes. But once again, America is making her sick by not taking it, and too often, for bad reason.
Proof? Case rates are highest in which states? Those with the lower vaccination rates, "A pandemic of the unvaccinated," according to the CDC. And which states are those? Red ones, mostly.
The Delta variant, overall hitting red states hardest, that's where the majority of the vaccine-hesitant reside. Among them, Florida. The White House says one in five cases came from Florida, this week, 20 percent.
What's the governor there doing? DeSantis is hawking "Don't Fauci My Florida" merchandise, beer koozies, T-shirts? Why? COVIDiocy. He's banking on people going bad on being told what to do on "Listening to these people. They don't like Trump."
DeSantis got vaccinated, early on, so did Trump and his family. Developing the vaccine in record time was Trump's signature contribution to the pandemic, the fruit of Operation Warp Speed. So why aren't he and his followers pushing it among the faithful?
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are delivering millions of doses of a safe and effective vaccine that will soon end this terrible pandemic and save millions and millions of lives.
It is truly a Christmas miracle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So, why isn't he getting you to buy, and use, and take? It's free, this Christmas miracle.
Now, this is his response to pushing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They all want me to do a commercial because a lot of our people don't want to take vaccine. You know, I don't know what that is exactly, Republican? I don't know what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You don't know what it is? Just like you didn't know who David Duke was, or any of the bad actors who back you?
Mr. Trump has selective amnesia when it comes to knowing about what he doesn't think works for him. The question is why does Trump think the vaccine is not in his interest, when he created it?
Maybe it is because he's not getting the credit for any progress now, because it's not on his watch. So, there's nothing in it for him. And he is better served by division. Maybe that's why he's OK with letting his people bad-mouth his signature achievement with deadly disinformation.
Lot of maybes! Here's proof of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX BERENSON, FORMER NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: The government was hoping that they could sort of sucker 90 percent of the population into getting vaccinated. And it - and it - and it isn't happening, right? There's--
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
BERENSON: Younger people. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Who applauds not getting vaccinated? People who have been misled, that it is good for them not to take it.
This past weekend, when a speaker noted the Biden White House hasn't reached its vaccination goal yet, what do you see? What do you see? You see Trump is happy about it.
My team did a rough count from six of his public appearances since the election. He mentioned the election around 221 times. Vaccine? About 39. And not, you know, forget about just the numbers. It's the quality. In those 39, overwhelmingly, he just said "I did it. I did it. I did it." But he didn't push taking it.
Now what does that tell you? Trump seems to have in both ways, takes credit for making it, and takes advantage from the division that is keeping his people from taking it. More and more, people are going the wrong way because they are unprotected after buying into the BS.
So, President Biden today specifically to game and social media companies, like Facebook, for not doing enough to spread the anti- vaxxer BS.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're killing people.
The only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated. And that - and they're killing people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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CUOMO: It's a hefty charge! Let's take it to the better minds. Smerconish. And Dr. Leana Wen, Author of a new book coming out, "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health."
Good to have you both!
Smerc? Help me. He creates the vaccine. He says, "Look, Operation Warp Speed was great!" Now, he doesn't want anybody to take it. They ask him to do a commercial, he said, "What? Who's? Republican? What?" Why?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR, "SMERCONISH": He's sacrificing one of the best arguments that he has.
Because by your own statistics, and anecdotally, I can bear that out, because I've watched most of those appearances, he really doesn't assert himself and take full credit, to the extent you would expect. Why is that the case?
I think, to the extent there's any strategy involved here, and I don't know if there is, he's always been about motivation, and not persuasion. He's always been about doing what it takes, to motivate the hardcore, to get out there, and be supportive, rather than to try and get people to meet him halfway and win hearts and minds.
So, in this case, I think, he believes he would appear soft, in front of some of those fringe types that he wants to keep inside the tent. So, he's willing to forego mention of Operation Warp Speed, so as to keep them happy and stay out of the fray.
One other thing, Chris. Ask yourself, this. Even if he were to do the PSA, even if he were to implore his followers, to get vaccinated, would they necessarily follow? I have my doubts.
CUOMO: He said, "Go down to the Capitol and make sure they know that we're here," they sure as hell followed up on that request, Smerc. So, taking a vaccine is a lot easier than attacking the Capitol!
SMERCONISH: Sure.
CUOMO: Dr. Leana Wen, here's the problem. Americans' confidence in major U.S. institutions, like the medical system, declined.
We have a full screen for it.
2019, 2020, 2021, you take a look at it, confidence in the medical system, 36 percent in 2019, 51 percent, June 2020, now coming back down again, June 2021. So that's a battle within the battle, right?
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. I mean, we are facing misinformation and disinformation on a lot of fronts.
But just to follow up on what Michael was just saying, I mean, I think that he's right. I mean, President Trump - former president Trump had plenty of opportunity, to convince his followers earlier.
And what I'm concerned about is that there is this narrative out there. The most common reason I'd say that I hear from people about why they're not vaccinated is they think that there's more to fear from the vaccine than there is from the virus, which obviously is totally backwards. I mean, this is a deadly virus. The vaccine is what saves your life.
And I would hope that the information from doctors will make a difference, politicians will make a difference. I hope so. But I actually think it's a bit too late for that. I think we need to take a lot more dramatic action in the form of proof of vaccination, and ultimately, vaccine mandates.
CUOMO: Quick bounce question to you, Dr. Wen.
49 percent of people in a recent poll, who haven't taken the vaccine, said it being FDA approved, would help them with that. My man, D. Lemon went bad on me on that argument last night.
He's like, "Oh, they don't understand. It's about efficacy, not approval." I said, "Yes, but anything that has approval must have efficacy."
And he goes, "Oh no, it can have efficacy, and not be approved."
I said, "I know. But if it is approved, it must have efficacy. And that gives people comfort."
Do you agree?
WEN: I do. I think that full approval will make a huge difference, for two reasons.
One is that there are some people, who call this vaccine, "Experimental." Obviously, it's not experimental. It's been given to hundreds of millions of people. It's just fine. It should be frankly, approved at this point. But taking - but having full approval would take that argument and that arrow out of the quiver.
And the second reason is there are lots of workplaces and schools that have not gone the route of vaccine mandates, because they just aren't sure that they can, without full approval.
So, that will also allow for a lot more people to be vaccinated, who are on the fence right now. They don't know - they're not really opposed to getting the vaccine. But they need that extra push. And that kind of mandate and full approval would do the trick.
CUOMO: Looking at DeSantis, down in Florida. He's a smart guy. He got vaccinated. He was doing the vaccinated thing heavy on - early on. Now, he's going bad on it.
Is there advantage in playing up this "Don't get vaccinated" movement, in terms of it being anti-institution? "Don't let Big Brother tell you what to do! The Left is sneaky! Fauci looks sneaky!" Do you think that that is - there is advantage for that, on the Right?
SMERCONISH: I do. If you're asking me, I think that there is. And the data that I would point to is you were talking about those areas of the country, where vaccination lags behind the national average.
You know, Chris? If you did sort of an overlay, of the 2020 election results, and the vaccination rate, you'd see a hell of a lot of similarity.
[21:10:00]
So, it would help, I would think, DeSantis to be the "Don't Tread On Me" guy, in primary season." Whether he could sell that to suburbanites, and win a general election, nationwide, that remains to be seen.
CUOMO: So, we're seeing the cases come up, Dr. Wen. And we expected this. You and I've talked about this a lot.
Once you get rid of the restrictions, and the masks come off, we see how many people are getting sinus infections and good old stomach viruses again, right? We hadn't seen those for a year or so. We expected that.
The hedge was the vaccine will take up the slack, and help people not get that sick. It's not happening. And now you're seeing the cases come up. What's your concern for fall?
WEN: Well, I was hoping that we could get through the summer. My prediction was that we would have a good summer, and that we would see cases potentially surge again in the fall. It's already gotten bad. And we're only in the middle of July.
And I have to go back to what you and I talked about, a while ago, Chris, which is that the CDC really made a big mistake here, by saying that fully-vaccinated people can take off their masks, but not having any way to verify this, and just say that "We need to trust the honor system."
People are not behaving honorably. The unvaccinated are basically saying "Well, it's open season for me. I can do whatever I want as well." And as a result, we did not incentivize people to get vaccinated. It was exactly the opposite.
These restrictions got removed. People are doing whatever they want to. And unfortunately, we are seeing surges, as a result. Now it's going to be really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. And that's what I'm afraid of.
These states that have really low vaccination rates, they need indoor masking mandates now. But that's not going to happen. And so, we're going to get more preventable deaths.
CUOMO: It's not as easy, Mike, to argue to mandate something that's not FDA-approved. That is an issue. Look, private businesses can do it. States could do it. I just don't think they have leverage.
What do you think happens, if the cases go really high, and people start suggesting, at the federal level that you may want to think about significant measures again? You're seeing them in California. Do you think people will go for it?
SMERCONISH: I'm a little disappointed that I walk around with my wallet possessing a vaccination card, proof of vaccination. I've never had to show it. And I'm leading a pretty active life, and including, flying several times, in the last few weeks. Like Dr. Wen, I'm a bit disappointed.
I mean, look, you know the rules at CNN. You know the coming-back-to- work standard that's been set. I have the same thing, at the law firm, where I'm associated Chris. I like it.
I like the fact that you have employers and private industries saying, "Without regard to a religious exception, or a medical condition, our expectation is you're going to be vaccinated."
Can I give you the statistic of the week? The statistic of the week is that every patient hospitalized, in Los Angeles County, this week, for COVID, unvaccinated. Or, said differently, no vaccinated patient was hospitalized in all of Los Angeles County, this week, for a COVID-related ailment. That's the kind of message that needs to be sent, I think, to the unvaccinated. You're taking a hell of a risk.
CUOMO: Yes, I was talking to somebody, on the radio, today. And I said, "You know? Ask yourself, how much can somebody care about you, if they encourage you to not get vaccinated?" Just think about it. Just think about what that says about that person, and whether or not they care about you.
Michael Smerconish, Dr. Leana Wen, thank you both, have good weekends. Be well.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, look, from the beginning, I mean, I really thought "Boy, was I wrong," that the pandemic would be the great uniter, right? I mean, collective will, out of common concern, I mean what else was it?
Should have never been about Red and Blue, just life and death, but the vaccine political divide is every bit as real as the pandemic itself. "I don't believe you! Too good-looking!" OK! Let the Wizard of Odds show us the proof.
The numbers, next.
I'm good-looking, not you, wasn't about you.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: How do we get more people to take the vaccine?
Some people say "Stop asking them! You're making them nervous. You're feeding into their paranoia by pushing it so hard."
What's the other side? The other side is "Get people they like and have them try and make the pitch." How about a pop star? How about the nation's most famous doctor? Will that work?
The White House is banking on it with a new PSA. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVIA RODRIGO, ENTERTAINER: "Wear your mask and get your vaccines. I need to see Olivia Rodrigo live in concert in the first row."
Get your vaccines. I'm so excited to tour one of these days.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If I tell you the greatest concert that I've ever been to, you're going to faint.
(LAUGHTER)
FAUCI: Because the reason is, I'm so old it goes back to the late 1950s, at The Paramount Theater, in New York City, which was a Motown concert with "The Temptations," "The Four Tops." I'm sorry.
RODRIGO: Oh my God!
(LAUGHTER)
FAUCI: I'm a really - I'm a really old guy.
RODRIGO: That's incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: "I want to get a needle!" Dr. Fauci and Olivia Rodrigo, tag teaming, crosses generational divides. Look, anything can help, right? But it probably is not going to be enough.
This is about politics. It's about poison politics. It's about division. It's not just about ignorance. It's about animus.
It's at a level now where the number show even Trump changing his tune might not have an impact. I personally don't believe that. But we're never going to know, because it doesn't seem like he has any interest in getting you to take the vaccine that he pushed originally.
The Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten, says, "Forget about Cuomo. Listen to the numbers."
All right, Red-Blue divide, what do you see?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I'd say never listen to you! No!
Look, here's the - here's the situation. If you look at the counties, right, we always talk about the states, but I think that counties really give you a good understanding.
[21:20:00]
Look at the counties that voted for Biden. Look at the counties that voted for Trump. Back in late April, they had basically equivalent vaccination rates. But then, in May, you started seeing a little widening with the Blue counties that Biden won, starting to get vaccinated at higher levels.
And right now, there's an over 10-point divide in the Blue counties versus the Red counties. And it just gets larger every single day, Chris. I go back, and I looked at the numbers a week ago, two weeks ago, little by little by little, the Blue counties keep moving up, and the Red counties, although they move up, it's just a tiny fraction.
CUOMO: Turns out that this is going to be very, very local, if you want to shift it, right? You get doctors pushing the vaccine, you're better off than having rock stars.
ENTEN: That's exactly right. I mean, look at who unvaccinated Republicans trust. And this gives you everything you need to know. And what we know is that unvaccinated Republicans trust their own doctor. That's who they trust with the vaccine.
CUOMO: 70 percent.
ENTEN: 70 percent!
Look at Dr. Anthony Fauci, just 15 percent of unvaccinated Republicans trust him as a source for vaccine information. He is not really speaking. He speaks to the people, who already have gotten the vaccine.
What we need is to make sure this is localized that this is in doctors' offices, which the Biden administration's trying to do. And by putting it in the doctors' offices, the doctor can convince them, and then they get the shot the same day.
Don't allow any time to waste. Give them the shot the same day, once they talk to their doctor. It's our best chance.
CUOMO: Now here's Harry's favorite part of the show. It's called "Cuomo is wrong!" I believe that Trump would make a difference. You say "Take a look at the numbers, dummy!"
What do they show us?
ENTEN: What they show us is just look at the people, who are unvaccinated.
"If Trump strongly urged you, to get the vaccine, would you be more likely to get it?" Just 15 percent of the unvaccinated said "Yes, they'd be more likely to get it." Even among Republicans, it's just 20 percent.
I think, oftentimes, we say "Oh, the Republican base will just go where Trump tells them." I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's certainly not the case here.
Oftentimes, it's about Trump reading the base. And that, I think, is part of the reason why he has not come out, and said, "You know what? You should go get vaccinated with as much vigor as you might normally expect." He has said "You should," but not with as much vigor. And I think part of the reason is he can feel the base. He knows it won't work - it won't work with them. And he doesn't want
to be quote unquote, "A loser," and say, "Look, I gave everything I could to people getting vaccinated, and they still wouldn't." He doesn't want to go that route. And these numbers tell you why. It's because most Republicans, they don't even want to listen to Donald Trump, when it comes to the vaccine.
CUOMO: Harry Enten, you've earned a good weekend. Thank you very much, Mr. Wizard of Odds.
ENTEN: Thank you, my friend. And enjoy the weekend as well.
CUOMO: Thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, there's a new congressional investigation, OK? It's into a product of the "Big Lie," which is what? In this case, the Arizona Fraudit."
My next guest lives in Maricopa County. That's where it's being conducted. A two-time Trump voter, a well-known voice in Phoenix, he was for this Cyber Ninja count initially. But now, he is against it.
I want to talk to Mr. Broomhead, real name, because I want to talk about what's happening there, but more importantly, what does he believe needs to change, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: We're about to learn a whole lot more about what the Cyber Ninjas are up to with that so-called audit, in Arizona. The House Oversight Committee is now investigating. And an Arizona judge just said "Documents, including who's paying for this thing, are public record."
All this, after Doug Logan, the Head of Cyber Ninjas, and conspiracy theorist, told the Arizona Senate yesterday that after almost three months of infrared light, and hunts for bamboo fibers, they're still not done.
You have to - you really have to wonder what Arizona Republicans, who thought, this was a good idea, when it started, what do they think now? Let's ask one, Mike Broomhead, Host of "The Mike Broomhead Show" on KTAR Radio.
It's good to have you brother. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
MIKE BROOMHEAD, HOST, THE MIKE BROOMHEAD SHOW ON KTAR RADIO: Thanks for having me.
CUOMO: So, just quickly, take us through why you liked it, and why you don't like it now.
BROOMHEAD: Originally, there have been, going all the way back to the first time that Trump won, when he beat Hillary, the Democrats thought that something had happened, and the election was stolen. So, both sides of the aisle had at one time or another not had faith in the election system.
State of Arizona said "We are going to do an audit of our elections here." I thought if we can put the State's stamp of approval on it, one way or the other, let's just get answers.
So, I didn't have an issue with it to begin with. But it was everything that happened after that started to get me to not like what - how it ended up?
CUOMO: And where do you think it is now?
BROOMHEAD: I think it's too one-sided. The example I used earlier today was, from a Republican point of view, I thought it was one-sided what Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler were doing with the investigations. I thought it was a partisan investigation.
When you hire a company, who said before the audit that they believe the election was stolen, when the Head of the Cyber Ninjas is going on a documentary that's saying that the election was stolen, in the middle of the audit, and you're only allowing a network that is a Right-leaning network, to have the pool feed for all of this, you're only speaking to one crowd. And I thought that was the wrong thing to do.
CUOMO: What have you learned about how people have gone bad on you, by just speaking your truth about this?
BROOMHEAD: No--
CUOMO: What does it tell you about what's happened on the conservative side of the ball, but what used to be that side of the ball?
BROOMHEAD: I just think it's - it happens on both sides, in the extremes. When you get into Twitter, and you get into social media, there have been a lot of people that have been angry about it.
I understand the passion, I really do, if you align yourself with somebody, most of the time, and then all of a sudden they're a loud voice against something you really believe in. So, I don't take it too personally, because most of those people don't
really know me anyway. And the people that do know me that have questions, about, why I'm against this, now, they call me, and ask me. And those are the people that I care more about, what they think, than the ones that don't know me.
[21:30:00]
CUOMO: All right, so let's talk about where we are. Were you surprised when you found out I wanted you on my show?
BROOMHEAD: Yes, I was very surprised. I was pleasantly surprised.
I got to tell you. I try to bring on as many voices that are against, that disagree with me, because I think it's a better conversation.
And I never imagined I would be asked to be on your show. So yes, I'm surprised, and pleasantly surprised.
CUOMO: I get my butt whooped, for having on people, from the Right, on a regular basis.
The audience's response is general - generally, to the fringe that you speak about. "Why do you give these people a chance to lie?" And I say "Not everything that you disagree with is a lie, by the way."
BROOMHEAD: Right.
CUOMO: You can disagree with somebody, and not like their position, doesn't mean they're lying.
How do we get out of this mess, brother? How do we get out of this?
BROOMHEAD: I think the best way out would have been to come out with a report that said, "Here are some things we found that we can do better." I think that would have been the only way out.
But what they're trying to do now, or what they're saying now, is more innuendo. And that was my biggest fear that even at the end, of this, we're no better off than we were at the beginning.
CUOMO: Right.
BROOMHEAD: And, in Arizona, we have six huge statewide races coming up, in 2022, including the governor and the attorney general, and Mark Kelly's Senate seat. So, from a Republican point of view, there are big races we should be focused on. And we are going to be going into 2022, the way this looks with this audit.
CUOMO: What do you think about just like the bigger battle, you know, that we have people not getting vaccinated, and too many of them are not getting vaccinated, because of some political position?
BROOMHEAD: Well, you know what's interesting. The thing, the numbers I've looked at, it's a little different than politics. I was fully vaccinated. My very first opportunity, I went out to our
Cardinal Stadium, State Farm Stadium, and was there at 2 and 3, in the morning, on my two visits, to get it done. But I don't ever push people to do what they don't believe in is right for them.
And it's the 20- to 44-year old age group. These are people that are hard-working, family people, busy. And I think that they're not worried about getting the virus.
The new information, I think about this, about this variant, and how contagious it is, I think it may motivate people, especially if they've got kids, to get vaccinated. I'm hoping that's the change.
CUOMO: But why do you think if that's all it is, why do you think if it's circumstantial, why do you think that there is a growing gap in the counties that Biden won versus Trump?
BROOMHEAD: I can't answer that. I can only go with what I look at, here in Arizona, with the Department of Health Services.
And I watch the numbers every day. And it's still that 20- to 44-year old age group that is getting it, and spreading it, in the largest numbers, but it's also the groups that's got the lower numbers of vaccinations.
So, I focus more on that, and talking to those people, without being condemning, if they don't do it, but trying to convince them that they got to do what's right for them, but take a look at the numbers.
CUOMO: What's your sense of what happens with your party, going into the midterms, and what the campaign's about?
BROOMHEAD: If unless somebody can come in, just specifically in Arizona, unless there are people that can bridge this gap, of people like myself, who are detractors, but would agree with them, on 90 percent of the issues, which is interesting.
If you and I talked issues over a beer, we'd find a lot of things we disagreed on, but a few things we agreed on. It's different with this - with the Republican Party. I'm in line with my party (ph) 90 percent of the time--
CUOMO: Broomhead?
BROOMHEAD: --on major issues.
CUOMO: Broomhead? Is that your real name, by the way?
BROOMHEAD: Yes, that's my real name. I'm glad you clarified that with the - well you weren't making fun of me, when you introduced me.
CUOMO: Listen, I didn't want to start off at a deficit.
But let me ask you something. I hear this a lot. What positions - I'll be honest with you.
BROOMHEAD: OK.
CUOMO: I do not have the intellectual curiosity to often form positions. To me, I test them.
BROOMHEAD: OK.
CUOMO: And some of the things that I do think more deeply about usually have more consequences. But look, for me, it's just testing what's ever in front of me. But what is your sense about where we would not agree?
BROOMHEAD: Probably maybe Second Amendment issues.
Arizona is a very, very lenient state on firearms. I've been a firearms owner my entire life. And I like the laws in Arizona. I think we have a very safe city, here in Phoenix. And I think we've proven that just because you have lenient laws, for law-abiding gun owners that it doesn't make your place more dangerous to live. Maybe that one.
I'm very pro--
CUOMO: Well, hold on. Let's go one at a time. I am a gun owner.
BROOMHEAD: OK. Sure.
CUOMO: I am a gun owner, by the way.
BROOMHEAD: OK.
CUOMO: You probably didn't know that. Most of you guys don't. But do you believe that all sales should be checked, to make sure that people who are getting them should get them?
BROOMHEAD: I think most of the sales already are. But yes, I don't have an issue with checking to make sure that people are legal gun owners. I think a better way to solve the problem is the databases that are used, when they do the background checks, should be updated.
CUOMO: I agree.
BROOMHEAD: And that people that - those lists should be on those lists.
CUOMO: Do you--
BROOMHEAD: And that's not happening.
CUOMO: Do you think people who don't - first of all, you got to do better with the paperwork, like you just said. Do you think that people who don't secure their firearms, and then they get used in a crime, should be charged as well?
BROOMHEAD: It depends. Now, that's circumstantial. I don't know of all the circumstances.
I live by myself. But I have five grandchildren. I have guns in my home that are accessible to me, just in case.
CUOMO: Right.
[21:35:00]
BROOMHEAD: I'm not paranoid. Just in case.
But when my grandkids come over, everything gets put away, and making sure that it's safe for my grandkids. So, I understand the need for a safe, you know, safely keeping guns.
But are you talking about guns that are stolen? Are you talking about--
CUOMO: No. If they're stolen, it's irrelevant.
I'm saying that if they're not properly secured, and somebody gets them, which happens in a lot of shootings, involving minors, often the parents, or wherever they got the gun from, you don't see that. And it's a much bigger issue than people think. They don't usually prosecute them, because the people have already suffered enough.
On one other bucket, do you believe that there should be a limitation on the types of firearms that people can get, like, if you can get something--
BROOMHEAD: OK. I would--
CUOMO: --that is big magazine--
BROOMHEAD: --I would say--
CUOMO: --what they call assault rifles?
BROOMHEAD: I have no problem with people having those types of rifles. And I will say this.
Nobody says we're going to limit the horsepower you can have in a vehicle, even though the speed limit is 75 miles an hour. So you can buy a Corvette, you can buy a Maserati, you can buy a car. And then when somebody does something horrible, at a high speed, and kills people, we don't blame the car. We blame the person on the gas pedal.
So, I don't have a problem with that. I would say to you, my definition would be this. If local law enforcement has a need for a weapon, in order to fight crime, I may face that same criminal, and I should have the same access.
The AR-15 rifle, to me, is no different than any other platform of rifle. It's the person that's holding it. And I think if we focused on that, we'd be better off.
CUOMO: There's one problem with the metaphor.
BROOMHEAD: OK.
CUOMO: A car is designed to do many things. A weapon is designed to do one. And--
BROOMHEAD: Right. It is. But it--
CUOMO: --and that becomes the issue that do you need that kind of weapon to keep yourself safe, when it puts people at such an advantage over police? It puts innocent people at such a disadvantage, creates such a killing circle, and so much ability to kill?
BROOMHEAD: So, let me - let me offset that with - you remember the case in Texas, a few years ago, where a man with an AR-15, went into a church and murdered people? He was stopped by a person with the exact same rifle. That was the good guy with an AR-15.
So, how do you know when you're going to need that rifle? I mean, that again, that's the issue is you don't know what you're going to need, or when you're going to need it. And it's only dangerous in the hands of the wrong person.
It's not dangerous in the hands - like you said, you're a gun owner. And I am as well. We are no more dangerous when we're armed than anybody else. It's the dangerous people that we should focus on, taking the weapons out of their hands, all weapons, not just AR-15, but any weapon, any rifle, any gun.
CUOMO: You know what the difference is? If we saw politicians having this discussion this way, imagine how different the country would feel right now?
BROOMHEAD: Certainly, I would say.
CUOMO: Not a single insult. Not a weird face. Not "This Broomhead is an empty-head. This Cuomo is this, and this, and that," and the ad hominems. That's the problem. The animus is choking us.
What do you think about this, Brother Broomhead? Let's have a rolling conversation, going forward, as we get into more of the issues that are becoming relevant, and the takes, as we go forward?
I want to pause, and see, if I'm right about what your party nationally is going to do. If they push the big lie nationally, and if they push that the vaccine, "You don't need to take it," if they play those games nationally, I think we're going to have a problem. But I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait, and give them a chance to prove me wrong.
And when we start seeing what the battle lines are, I'd love to have you on, to talk our way through, with the - where the reasonable mind should be.
BROOMHEAD: All right. And I would love to have you on my show sometime.
CUOMO: Done. One-for-one is a fair trade.
BROOMHEAD: Perfect!
CUOMO: Brother Broomhead? Be well. You are welcome here. I hope you have a good weekend.
Is that you in the picture behind your own shoulder?
BROOMHEAD: No, I have my - my middle brother, my brother Tom was killed in Iraq, back on Memorial Day, of 2003. That's a Memorial portrait of my brother.
CUOMO: I respect your family for the service. The entire family serves. The entire family grieves the loss. I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. I respect his service. And I appreciate the service of the entire family. Be well. God bless.
BROOMHEAD: All right. Thank you.
CUOMO: And have a good weekend.
BROOMHEAD: You too.
CUOMO: All right.
Listen, I believe in that conversation. I know that there are a lot of you saying right now, "Oh, please! You don't need one of those."
He's not crazy, though, is he? He's not irrational. It's not like he's got like tobacco dripping out of his face, and all these other stereotypes you have, right? You don't look at me, and think "Gun owner," right? Maybe you do!
The point is you can disagree on something. But if you do it with decency, you don't wind up as messed up as we are right now.
Now, proof of performance, this immigration ruling today, DREAMers are in trouble. A federal judge says the DACA program that protects DREAMers is illegal. And by the way, reading the decision, this is a lousy legal basis that Obama created out of what he felt was necessity.
Congress needed to do it right. They never have. Hundreds of thousands of undocumented young adults, who are busting their ass, to make it in this country, and doing everything the right way, they're just like your kids and mine, and they are now in a bad place.
Will Congress take action? I say, "Nope." Let's discuss next.
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CUOMO: BOLO! Be On the Look-Out. The fate of hundreds of thousands of undocumented young immigrants, known as DREAMers, once again in limbo, tonight, after a federal judge ruled in Texas that the DACA program that shields them is unlawful.
The ruling was a response to a lawsuit brought by nine Republican-led states, including Texas that argued DACA placed an undue burden on their states.
In his opinion, Judge Andrew Hanen, a George W. Bush appointee, ruled that President Obama exceeded his authority when he created the program, by executive order, in 2012. That is not a novel legal theory, by the way.
The ruling does not immediately cancel current permits, but it bars future applications, and it puts those, on the brink of renewal, on shaky ground.
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Right now, 650,000 DREAMers, people who were brought to the U.S. illegally, as children - do not fault them. You are wrong to do that. Do you understand? Do your kids make those kinds of choices about where you go? It's about what they did once they got here, OK?
Some of them - some 200,000 of them are frontline workers, who helped us get through the pandemic. They're not drug dealers with "Cantaloupe calves" and "Bad hombres." They're people busting their butts to make it in this country.
The criticism on the Left has been swift. And there are promises of appeal. In the meantime, Texas Democratic congressman Joaquin Castro, and his twin brother, Julian, are calling on Congress to act. Will they? I say, "Nope."
Congress remains the only body that can come up with a permanent solution for DACA recipients, through legislation. That's why Obama had to create DACA in the first place. Congress wouldn't do anything.
Everybody says they love the DREAMers. Even Trump said it. "Of course, we're going to take care of the DREAMers. We're going to take care of the DREAMers." Nobody does.
So, will the Democrats find a way? If they don't, these rulings, they're going to keep coming. And these people are going to be in bad shape. And it's wrong. And we all know it.
Now, let's talk about wrong situations, and how to make them right. President Biden wants to help people from Cuba, he says. The pressure on him to do that, what's taken so long?
Let's talk to a congressman in his party, calling him to act now. Why, and how? Next. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
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CUOMO: The people of Cuba are taking to the streets, and they are demanding freedom. Yes, of course, yes, of course, that's what they want the most. They are in a despotic regime that has held them down for generations.
But what they need that can be delivered right now by the United States is food. It's COVID vaccines. It's internet.
The Communist regime responding with aggression, of course, so do we go in with the military? Do we take them out right now? Should we do that?
President Biden says this is about the island nation that is less than a 100 miles from our shores. And this is what he says about it.
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BIDEN: Cuba is a - unfortunately, a failed state and repressing their citizens. There are a number of things that we would consider doing, to help the people of Cuba, but it would require a different circumstance or a guarantee that they would not be taken advantage of by the government.
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CUOMO: Does that work for you?
One of those, who want more action, in his, own party, Democratic Representative, from Massachusetts, Congressman Jim McGovern.
Good to see you, sir.
REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): Happy to be with you. CUOMO: Why isn't Biden being pushed by Democrats, in doing more? Why not get there and give them the medicine? How are they going to exploit medicine?
MCGOVERN: Yes, well, first of all, I love Joe Biden. And there's not a day that goes by that I don't think he's the president, and not the other guy. But I'm disappointed with his - with his response to the situation in Cuba.
Two things need to happen. First of all, the Cuban government needs to cut it out. I mean, they need to respect the right of their people to engage in legitimate protests.
I mean, the Cubans, as you pointed out, are suffering, that people are hungry. There are medical shortages. The COVID crisis is spiking. An uncertain future. The Cuban government ought to release those that they've arrested. They had to turn the internet back on.
Secondly, the Biden administration ought to do what the Obama-Biden administration did. And that is recognize that our policy toward Cuba, for the last many decades, has been a miserable failure.
This economic embargo, these sanctions, that we have put in place have hurt average Cubans. They haven't heard the hardliners in the Cuban government. They've just hurt average Cubans.
CUOMO: But you know what the pushback is.
MCGOVERN: Put them out of misery.
CUOMO: If you remove the embargo, you reward the despots, down there, who are in control, in that Communist state.
MCGOVERN: Well, when we began to ease things, under the Obama administration, we actually saw a very different thing happened.
One is that people were, you know, we were - people were sending more remittances to their families. You saw people supporting small businesses that were growing in Cuba. You saw more political space, a strengthening of civil society. All those things are good. All those things help pave the way for a better future, for the Cuban people.
I mean, Trump - I mean, Biden ought to, at a minimum, ought to reverse Trump's additional sanctions, one of which, by the way, makes it difficult for a Cuban American son or daughter, living in the United States, to send remittances to their mother or father, in Cuba, to help them get through these difficult times.
I mean, that's a rotten, cruel thing that Trump did. We got to be able to reverse it right away. And when people say, "Well, we - well that would - the Cuban government will take advantage of that," certainly, we can figure out a delivery system that will get it to the people who need it.
But if you want to help, the Cuban people, enough of the "Cold War" rhetoric. I mean, let's get down to the business of formulating a new, more constructive policy, one that actually helps the Cuban people.
CUOMO: But why don't you just get them the medicine, and the food? You got the 30 million AstraZeneca shots--
MCGOVERN: Well, we--
CUOMO: --sitting around. I mean, it's only--
MCGOVERN: We got--
CUOMO: --90 miles off this shore. You could have gotten it there--
MCGOVERN: Yes.
CUOMO: --a week ago.
MCGOVERN: Yes. Well, we ought to. I mean, from a humanitarian point of view, we got to figure out a way to get them additional medical support - medical supplies and vaccines.
CUOMO: Well, why isn't that you could figure it out? We do it all the time. Why hasn't it happened?
MCGOVERN: Well, I mean, we can't. I mean, there's a shortage of syringes in Cuba, right now, among other things.
CUOMO: We have them.
MCGOVERN: Yes. Well, you know what? We ought to do it.
I mean, I've called on the Biden administration, to respond, in a very different way than some of my colleagues are talking about in the Congress. But we need a dramatically different approach.
And again, the Obama-Biden administration was on the right track. When Trump became president, he turned everything back. And, as a result, we see increased suffering on the island.
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CUOMO: Well, look, it's a difficult balance, because every time you show any kind of leniency, it emboldens the government there.
Now, you guys were getting stuck, just on the talk level. Jen Psaki was getting approached for why she wouldn't call them "Communists" and "Socialists." I don't know why anybody gets caught up in a messaging fight. Just get them the damn medicine!
MCGOVERN: Right.
CUOMO: Let me ask you something else, while I have you, Jim. DACA, what's the chance that Congress does anything? I only have like 30 seconds. Is there any chance?
MCGOVERN: Well, yes, I'm hoping there's a chance. I mean, the House actually passed a bill - a bill twice, to help provide a pathway, to regularize the status of DACA recipients, and TPS holders, and essential workers. We have a challenge in the Senate.
But this is yet another reason why we ought to get rid of the filibuster. I think the votes are there. I see - the overwhelming number of Democrats, and even some Republicans, would vote for this, but we have this thing called the filibuster. So, it's another reason to get rid of it.
CUOMO: All right, Congressman Jim McGovern, appreciate the straight talk. Have a great weekend.
MCGOVERN: You too. All the best.
CUOMO: All right, we'll be right back.
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CUOMO: Hey, I wish you every blessing, I wish you good health.
