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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Cracked Coalition?; Race to the White House

Aired March 16, 2004 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): France on alert: a letter linked to Islamists threatens New terror attacks.

Challenging the enemy: Kerry claims support from foreign leaders. Now President Bush says, back it up.

A manhunt in Ohio. Have you seen this suspect? He could be armed and dangerous. We'll have a live report.

Our special series, "Against All Odds: Remarkable Stories of Survival": tonight, surviving terror.

The great buttery flavor mystery. Is too much popcorn popping bad for your lungs?

And what's with all these cream puffs? Will people start dissing the doughnut?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live, from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And welcome to 360.

Up first, anxious allies. With Spain reeling after the terror, President Bush calls on the coalition to remain committed to Iraq. The White House clearly concerned about the strength of European resolve.

Suzanne Malveaux is covering the story in Washington, and in London, CNN's Matthew Chance. We begin with the White House -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, despite the turnover in Spain, President Bush insists that the other 30-plus members of the coalition in Iraq are committed to making it work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush refused to connect Spain's worst terrorist attack in history and the election ousting its pro- Bush, pro-war prime minister. To do so the administration believes would give the terrorists a big win.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are cold- blooded killers. I mean, they will kill innocent people to try to shake our will. That's what they want to do. And they'll never shake the will of the United States.

MALVEAUX: Despite losing a key ally in the war with Iraq, Spain's Jose Maria Aznar, the administration is stressing that it still has broad international support. Meeting in the Oval Office with the prime minister of the Netherlands, many in his country shaky following the bombings in Spain, want their 1,000 troops in Iraq pulled out. Mr. Bush says now is not the time for allies to back down.

BUSH: I would ask them to think about the Iraqi citizens who don't want people to withdraw because they want to be free.

MALVEAUX: But some believe the administration's tough talk on Iraq, now a year after the war in Iraq, is not the best way to keep the coalition together.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: We should stop this talk of unilateralism, and we should stop this bravado that has characterized some parts of the administration, and talk about the need for NATO to work together, get NATO into Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the administration is considering a variety of ways of continuing to reach out to Spain's new prime minister, who called the war and occupation in Iraq a disaster. One possibility is President Bush visiting Spain to meet with the new leader -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Suzanne, at the White House, thanks.

Today, both France and Germany, countries that actively opposed the war in Iraq, are calling for a united Europe in the fight against terror.

CNN's Matthew Chance reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Spanish government already toppled, across Europe there seems renewed opposition for the way the U.S.-led war on terror has been waged. In Paris, the French and German leaders spoke of matching military strength with political action.

JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): The international community must mobilize, be clear, work together to stop conflicts and feed frustration.

GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): One needs to look at the roots of terrorism as well. And one of these roots is the lack of development in the third world. CHANCE: But first, it is the need to bolster security in Europe that's being addressed. Already, there are calls for airport-style checks at German train stations and undercover British anti-terrorism police patrolling the London transport system. Authorities there say it is a question of when, not if, the British capital will be hit.

SIR JOHN STEVENS, METROPOLITAN POLICE COMMISSIONER: But take my word for it, we have foiled major events. Some of those events will be going to criminal courts. Some, in terms of what is disrupted, which we can't talk about, have definitely taken place, believe you me.

CHANCE: After Spain, though, the big question for European leader is what effects will attacks have on their governments.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, if London is attacked, which is what the authorities say is inevitable here in Britain, what will be the reaction of the British people? Will they rally around their prime minister, Tony Blair, much in the same way as the American public did after 9/11 around President Bush, or will they take the position that the Spanish public has taken, basically holding their government, its leadership at least, responsible for kind of bringing the terrorism down upon them. With so many threats abounding here in Europe, it is a big concern for many European governments -- Anderson.

COOPER: Matthew, talking about so many threats, a new threat today against France. What do you know about it? What's the latest?

CHANCE: Well, we don't know a great deal. We know that the French authorities have said that this is a menacing threat which promises to plunge France into terror and into remorse.

It was issued by a shadowy -- in fact, previously unknown -- Muslim extremist group and signed in the name of a prominent, but now dead, Chechen rebel. The letter makes a point, though, of calling for a lifting of the controversial French ban on headscarves for Muslim women, and is being investigated. The real point, though, is the fact that this is being taken so seriously gives us an indication of how worried governments across Europe are now.

COOPER: All right. Matthew Chance, live in London. Thanks, Matthew.

Now to the race for the White House. President Bush is asking Democratic front-runner John Kerry to name some names after he said he had the support of some world leaders.

With that, here is CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Bush campaign believes it has John Kerry on the run. BUSH: I think it's -- look, if you're going to make an accusation in the course of a presidential campaign, you ought to back it up with facts.

FRANKEN: Meaning Kerry's claims leaders overseas want Bush out and Kerry in. CNN has obtained an audiotape of his remarks from a Boston Globe reporter in the room.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly, but boy, they look at you and say, you've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy, we need a new policy...

FRANKEN: Leaders he will not identify because, he insists, that would violate confidences. And the White House says if Kerry refuses then he must be making up.

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry said, "That's none of your business." But it is our business when a candidate for president claims the political endorsement of foreign leaders.

FRANKEN: Kerry insisted again the real credibility issue is the White House issue over health care, the economy, the war in Iraq.

KERRY: And on each and every one of them, this administration has yet to level with the American people.

FRANKEN: When Kerry appeared before another veterans' group, this one in West Virginia, the Bush campaign rushed out a new ad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though John Kerry voted in October 2002 for military action in Iraq, he later voted against funding our soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Kerry...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

KERRY: I understand that the Republican attack machine has welcomed me to West Virginia today with another distortion.

FRANKEN: A distortion, Kerry insisted, because he only voted no after Republicans refused to reduce the tax cut for the wealthy, to finance the support for U.S. troops.

(on camera): Both sides are doing their utmost to play offense to avoid having to play defense.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, right now, police in Ohio are on alert and on the hunt for Charles A. McCoy, a suspect in the highway shootings, a man they considered armed and dangerous. We're finding out more and more about the suspect. CNN, in fact, has learned that McCoy's mother had filed a missing person's report on her son even before he became a suspect in the months-long sniper attacks.

CNN's Jonathan Freed has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After 10 months in the grip of fear, the people of Columbus, Ohio, are learning more and more about Charles A. McCoy, Jr., the man police believe has been stalking them on the road and shooting at their homes.

DAVID BROWN, NEIGHBOR: Just shocked, you know? That's who he is. He lives right there.

FREED: Imagine discovering that the suspect is the same man you think you helped out after his car hit a neighborhood street sign awhile back.

BRIEN TAYNOR, NEIGHBOR: He just looked like an average Joe. You never know.

FREED: The Franklin County Sheriff's Office told CNN on Tuesday that the man who grew up nearby and played high school football is now considered suicidal, with homicidal tendencies. Still at large, McCoy's family is begging him to give up.

AMY WALTON, MCCOY'S SISTER: Mom and I need you to call us. We will arrange for you to come home.

FREED: There have been 24 shootings, including a deadly one in November, targeting moving cars on or near the Columbus Beltway, blowing out tires and shattering windshields.

CHIEF DEPUTY STEVE MARTIN, FRANKLIN COUNTY: The investigation conducted has identified McCoy as a suspect in these I-270 cases.

FREED: McCoy is charged with shooting a house in the area, and ballistics link that incident to some of the highway sniper shootings. His mother filed a missing person's report. Noteworthy. She says he had a goatee at the time he disappeared.

There is also some community frustration. Court records show that McCoy has a history of DUIs and speeding, and that he was pulled over twice since the attacks started. But Columbus is not without hope.

BRIAN WORBY, NEIGHBOR: ... that it will end peacefully without anybody else getting shot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: The Columbus Dispatch is reporting that McCoy's father give two of his son's handguns to authorities, that there was a ballistics match, and that that kicked off the search for McCoy -- Anderson.

COOPER: And that search is still on. Jonathan Freed, thanks very much, in Columbus.

Columbus, Ohio, is not the only place facing a string of highway shootings. Here's a quick news note for you. The San Francisco Bay area has also seen a number of highway shootings. Eight cars were shot at during a 90-minute period on the 580 Freeway on February 23.

A 27-year-old man named Christopher Gafford was taken into custody last week, but charges of attempted murder were dropped just 24 hours later. Police say they expect to re-arrest him soon. Gafford says he is innocent.

We're following a number of developing stories right now "Cross Country." Let's take a look.

From the Ohio Valley to the northeastern U.S., winter has returned -- at least it seems that way -- for the moment. Snow is falling. Some higher elevations will get more than a foot. New York will get three to six inches; Cleveland, five to 10; Boston, six to 12 inches; and Portland, Maine, more than a foot. And yesterday it seemed spring was in the air.

Washington: no hike rate in interest rates at the Fed, at least not this month. The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee decided today to keep their main short-term interest rate unchanged at 1 percent. That's the rate banks charge each other for overnight loans.

Along the Mexican border now: the INS goes high tech. The border patrol has now begun using remote control drone aircraft to keep watch on border areas. The Homeland Security Department believe they will help shut down drug trafficking, as well as illegal immigration.

In another new program, the department is now working with Mexican authorities to send detained illegal immigrants back to their home towns in Mexico. Previously, the U.S. just moved them across the border to Laredo, Texas, where many of them immediately tried again to cross into the U.S. This time, they're taking them in deeper.

Santa Barbara County, California, now. The Jackson case going to the grand jury. Sources tell CNN that the child molestation case against singer Michael Jackson will be presented to a grand jury. Sources also said that Jackson has been invited to appear to offer his side of the story.

There was no immediate comment, however, from Jackson's lawyers. We're going to have more on this story later on in the program.

And in Los Angeles, California: Whitney Houston checks into rehab. The singer's publicist announced in a statement that Houston has entered a program. She refused to release any further details. The singer has had several brushes with the law over illegal drug use.

And that's the story for now. That's a look "Cross Country" tonight.

Microwave popcorn's $20 million verdict. You've probably heard about it. A jury rules the oils damaged a factory worker's lungs. Well, now the EPA is researching the health impact on you. What is in that fake buttery flavor?

Plus, against all odds. Two people who lived through terrorist attacks share their stories of survival. Find out what life lessons they've learned from their close brushes with death. It is part of our weeklong series.

And new terror arrests in Pakistan. Is al Qaeda branching out since their leaders are on the run? We'll take a closer look.

First, let's take a look "Inside the Box" at the top stories on tonight's network newscasts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, in this age of terror, and just days after the Madrid bombings, you may be fearful, thinking, what would I do if a terrorist attacked? Tonight, as we continue our series, "Against All Odds: Stories of Survival," we hear from two people who have come face to face with terror. They share what they've learned from their brushes with death. We begin with one woman's remarkable story.

Here is CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surviving is hell. It's hard.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Priscilla Saliers (ph) works for the U.S. Secret Service in Oklahoma City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow.

TUCHMAN: In 1995, she worked for the Customs Service in the Murrah Federal Building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't have come any closer to dying than I did.

TUCHMAN: Priscilla (ph) fell five floors after the explosion, was buried under rubble for hours with only her left hand free. When she got home from the hospital, she told us...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I made sure I had an air pocket. I pulled rocks out from under me. I could get this hand. And I wanted to be sure that I had air coming to me.

TUCHMAN: She broke her ribs and punctured a lung. But survival brought out demons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember the first time I felt joy, and, you know, I do want to live. And then I felt guilty because I was feeling joy and there were still families that were hurting so bad. I mean, the survivors guilt is horrible.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Nearly nine years after this disaster, Priscilla Saliers (ph) tries to live her life as normally as possible. But even after all this time, she finds there is no escaping occasional bouts of depression and anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever finish that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're almost done with it.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Her family and faith all helped her greatly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I finally realized I don't have to feel guilty.

TUCHMAN: But she does feel a type of kinship few can relate to when she sees what happened in Spain and 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart went out to people that were getting ready to go down this road that I had already been down.

TUCHMAN: A road she continues to travel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't get over it. You get through it.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Oklahoma City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You don't get over it. You get through it.

Every person responds to trauma in different ways. One 9/11 firefighter, Richard Picciotto, found himself in the north tower on the 6th floor when the building collapsed on top of him. As he told me when we talked earlier, he was sure he was going to die.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD PICCIOTTO, 9/11 SURVIVOR: Yes, I thought without a doubt I was going to be dead in a matter of seconds. I just thought it was over. I knew the south tower had collapsed approximately 30 minutes earlier. And now I was still in the north tower.

I was up on the 35th floor. I got down to approximately the 6th. And it took eight seconds for the north tower to collapse. And my last final thought, which I thought was going to be my final thought, was just, please, god, make it quick.

COOPER: And then after that thought, you're surrounded by dust, you're surrounded by debris.

PICCIOTTO: From this tremendous noise. The noise was just tremendous, shaking, being tossed around like rag dolls. And then literally being in the building as it's falling.

You have this falling sensation. It was black, so you really couldn't see. But I just knew that I was falling.

Until this tremendous noise and shaking, and then all of a sudden a deathly quiet, a stillness. And I thought I was dead. And then I realized I wasn't. I was still alive.

There was a group of us there in various levels in the stairwell. What remained of the stairwell was filled with debris. Found some flashlights. Turned them on. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) carried flashlights. We turned our flashlights on, and we could see that we were in this void, this air pocket that remained.

COOPER: People say to you, god wanted you to live. Do you believe that?

PICCIOTTO: I don't know. I know he didn't want 343 other firemen to die and 3,000 other people to die.

So why me? That that old survivor's thing. You know, why am I here and 1,000 or 3,000 other people aren't?

COOPER: And people talk about survivor's guilt. Is that something you feel yourself?

PICCIOTTO: Yes, without a doubt. I'm lucky enough to be alive.

I'm not joyous. You have this mixture of emotions. I mean, should I be happy?

Meanwhile, I lost 343 of my brothers. I can't be happy, even though I am happy that I'm alive. You know, so you have this dichotomy of emotions.

COOPER: As you look back now, how has this changed your life?

PICCIOTTO: I appreciate life. One of the biggest things I appreciate. I realized how precious life is. It is a gift that can be taken away at any second.

COOPER: Richard, thanks very much for joining us.

PICCIOTTO: Thank you.

Well, terror fear spreading. Does al Qaeda have a new strategy of destruction? We're going to take a closer look at that.

Plus, Martha Stewart facing prison. Her daughter speaks out in a CNN exclusive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for the "Reset" of tonight's top stories. Let's get you back up to speed.

In Washington, the president says the allies in Iraq need to stand together. President Bush said today that Spain and other allies should not bow down to pressure from al Qaeda to pull their troops out of Iraq. The White House also said they may ask the United Nations for a new resolution that would help persuade the allies to stand firm. In Columbus, Ohio, police are searching for this man, the highway shooter suspect. Just a suspect. Charles McCoy Jr. is being sought for involvement in the string of highway shootings there. Police say they think he is armed and dangerous. One woman was killed last November in that shooting spree.

Las Vegas, Nevada, Gennifer Flowers loses her suit. A federal judge has dismissed a suit by Gennifer Flowers, that's a name from the past, against two one time advisers to former Bill Clinton. Flowers says that James Carville and George Stephanopolis. The judge said no reasonable jury would convict the men. I guess she's singing now.

Finally out in space, location, location, location. Company that has sold tourist trips to the speaker national space station says it is scouting locations for a space port to send tourists up for suborbital trips. The potential launch complex would also include a space training center. Sights in the Bahamas, the U.S., Malaysia, Singapore, and Dobai are all under consideration. Or you could just take a Carnival Cruise.

Fierce fighting along the Pakistani border has left 24 terrorist suspects dead and 18 wounded. All of this according to Pakistani Military.

With the latest CNN's Ash-Har Quraishi, joins us live by videophone from Islamabad.

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this latest operation was launched by Pakistani paramilitary troops after a tip- off indicating the presence of what they call, "miscreants" in the area, in northwest Pakistan, in the tribal belt. This is located south (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Now, as several others were called in to try to negotiate the surrender, when that didn't happen and gunfire erupted, as you mentioned it was an all-day operation at the end of which 24 suspects were killed, eight paramilitary soldiers were killed. Part of an ongoing operation by the Pakistani military squeeze out al Qaeda in Pakistan's northwest tribal region -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Ash-Har Quraishi, live from Islamabad. Thanks very much, Ash-Har.

As Pakistan steps up the raids, French investigators are looking into attack threats by an Islamist group. While in Spain authorities are trying build their case against the suspects in the Madrid bombings. International terrorism is back in our faces, and it leads us to wonder, are we making any head way against it.

Joining us is terrorism analyst Peter Bergen. Peter, thanks very for being with us. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the capturing or killing of Osama bin laden would not change the problem of international terrorism. Do you agree with that, if so, why?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yes, I do agree. Because Osama bin Laden has sort of created this jihad around the world. And right now, the train has sort of left the station. Capturing would be very useful in terms of bringing justice to victims of 9/11 who we saw in this program. And, also, he is operating as the chief deal of this movement. He is calling for attacks against Spanish targets. And we saw that in Madrid that those happen. But this is a larger ideological movement than one man. So, capturing bin Laden would be a useful break through but not the end of the war on terrorism.

COOPER: I've heard people describe -- I mean, it used sort of al Qaeda was a vertically integrated organization with bin Laden somewhere near the top and other lieutenants around him.

People now sort of say it is more of a horizontal organization.

What does that mean, exactly?

BERGEN: It was a vertical, like corporate organization almost before 9/11. They paid people's salaries in some cases. Now it is more an ideological movement of like-minded individuals, many of whom may have not been in Afghanistan or even met with bin Laden but were inspired by his rhetoric. But we talk about al Qaeda as sort of short hand for a lot of different phenomenon. The organization itself, the affiliate groups, the franchise groups and the larger ideological movement that unfortunately going to be around for some time.

COOPER: How much do you get a sense that people know or sort of the average person really knows what is going on in the war on terror?

I ask this because 24 hours ago Saudi Arabia killed a major al Qaeda figure in Saudi Arabia. And then there's word from the Pakistan military that killed 24 terror suspects somewhere in tribal regions. They released video couple days ago where they said was a Pakistani tribe who were going to be out on the hunt. Not quite sure how video cameras just happened to be at this meeting.

Do we really know what's going on?

BERGEN: I think there are a lot of things we do and don't know. I think another question may be is -- what you talked about at the top of the piece, is how well is this all going. I think what happened in Madrid speaks for itself. We've had two wars since 9/11 in the name of the war on terrorism. We spent 10s of billions of dollars trying to break the back of al Qaeda and saw 200 being killed as they went to work on a Thursday morning in center of a Europe and also swung the Spanish election in these kind of militant's favor. They obviously have a lot of life left in them.

COOPER: How do they look at the -- what happened in Spain, the aftermath of this attack?

I mean, if you are a member of al Qaeda, how do you not read that as a victory?

BERGEN: I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, CNN has found an Internet posting in December which indicated members of al Qaeda were discussing, how can we throw the Spanish election sort of in our favor, how can we get Spain out of the Iraq war. We think of Spain as being the weak link of the coalition. And obviously they acted on those thoughts.

COOPER: So then the big question is, what happens next, Europe, perhaps even here?

If this opens up the flood gates, they see this method works, we can change democracy, we're going to see more terror attacks?

BERGEN: Certainly. More likely in Europe. I think the analysis would be to go after Britain or France or Italy. I think the United States stills remains a tougher target.

COOPER: Very disturbing. Peter Bergen, appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

BERGEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Revelation in today's "Los Angeles Times." High-ranking officials at UCLA may have known about problems with it's donating cadaver program a year before it launched an investigation into it. A whole year. Paper says in February of last year state health inspectors warned the university of possible misuse of bodies donated for medical research. Relatives of donors say they are planning on suing UCLA and others.

Carol Martin filed a lawsuit today. Her husband was willed four years ago.

She and her attorney, Matt Geragos, joins us, now. Appreciate both of you being with us.

Carol, let me start off with you. Your husband wanted his body donated for medical research.

Do you know what happened to him?

CAROL MARTIN, HUSBAND DONATED BODY: Well, no, I don't. Not at this time.

COOPER: Why did he want to donate his body?

MARTIN: Well, he had been ill for years, and the doctors always seemed to bring him through.

He wanted to help some future doctor or someone in the medical profession to...

COOPER: You had wanted his body cremated, and you -- they told you they were going to do that. They told you they are going to let you know in advance. They never called you, you called them. They said, oh, yes, we did that. Now, you're not sure if that's true.

MARTIN: Yes. Well, we don't. We don't know. There's no way to know now.

COOPER: What's your greatest fear in all this, Carol? MARTIN: That he was one of the persons that had parts of his body sold. And when they told me they were taking him to have him cremated at the end of all this, that he really didn't make it there either, to the cemetery.

COOPER: Matt, at this point the suit not against UCLA because there are a number of legal issues about that. There will probably come in a couple weeks.

Who are you suing is what are you looking for?

MATT GERAGOS, LAWYER: Right now, we have an action against the Johnson and Johnson, the subsidiary that purchased the body parts. Also against the gentleman, Earnest Nelson, and his entity he ran the business from. First and foremost will be that nothing likes this happens again so persons such as Carol and with their spouses don't have to go through this again. And then after that, we're also looking -- I'll be joined in this action by a number of class action attorneys from across the nation who brought this to us because of other event that is have occurred in down in Tulane University and the sale of bodies there. So this is something that could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of these pharmaceutical companies and others in the purchasing of body parts and whole bodies.

COOPER: Also, the revelation today that UCLA may have known about it a whole year ago certainly helps your case. Carol, final question to you. You once considered donating your body to science.

Would you still do it?

MARTIN: No. Not at this time.

COOPER: Sad testimony, that. Carol Martin appreciate you joining us and Matt Geragos, thank you very much.

GERAGOS: Thank you.

COOPER: We have a couple fast facts on the subject for organ donations for you. Medical school that is run most of the country's body donation programs need more than 10,000 cadavers a year. They use them to teach both students and physicians human anatomy and surgical procedures. Medical schools do not accept every body. Offer bodies may be rejected if they've been embalmed, autopsy, or people obese or emaciated or died from a communicable disease. That's how it's supposed to work.

Today, a story that crime knows no bounds. A 9-year-old boy facing the barrel of a gun. The gun was held by his own father.

Eric Phillips has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIRLEY MCCONNELL, NEIGHBOR: He come driving up the street on his bike. From what I understand he was all bloody and everything said, what's happening. He said, my mom and dad is dead. My mom and dad's dead.

ERIC PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The frantic words from a boy who rode his bike from this home in California to a family friend's house two miles away to report the horror he had just seen. Authorities, say it happened Sunday afternoon at the home, which is about an hour outside of San Bernardino. They say 83-year-old Oscar Lawrence and his girlfriend 44-year-old Anita Kinard, had gotten into an argument. They say Lawrence shot Kinard, killing her and than shot their 9-year-old son Aaron in the arm. The boy played dead. His father than turned the gun on himself.

ROBIN HAYNAL, SAN BERNARDINO CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.: When he was shot, he fell under the table. And what he did was play dead until he heard his father shoot himself. He waited a little while to make sure the coast was clear and that he would be safe getting up.

PHILLIPS: Neighbors say the couple was friendly enough. They knew the 83-year-old as Reverend Lawrence. The 9-year-old who was taken into the custody of Child Protective Services was, apparently, celebrating a birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter was asking if she could go to his birthday party. I knew it was soon. I heard it was today. What a birthday present.

PHILLIPS: But the 9-year-old still has the gift of life, thanks to his own quick thinking. Eric Phillips, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Unbelievable.

Martha Stewart facing prison. What's going through her mind? Coming up, a CNN exclusive. Her daughter speaks out for the first time.

Plus a new twist in the Michael Jackson case. We'll talk about that going to the grand jury.

And the cream puff craze. Have you heard about this? An old- fashioned pastry is making a big comeback. That little girl likes it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for "Justice Served." A new twist in Michael Jackson's legal fight. Prosecutors in Santa Barbara are taking the child molestation case to a grand jury. The D.A. could have chosen to present the evidence at a preliminary hearing like at the Kobe Bryant or Scott Peterson case but he didn't. On the case for us, Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. So why did they make the decision? Why go to the grand jury?

LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Well, in a preliminary hearing, the prosecution is highly likely to get an indictment whereas in a grand jury they're overwhelmingly likely to get indictment. They have a little bit of an extra edge, it's a secret proceeding. Defense attorneys not only don't get to come and cross-examine witnesses or present any kind of a case, they don't get to come at all. They are not welcome in the door in a grand jury. It is purely a prosecution show.

COOPER: So if you are reading tea leaves does this indicate about what the prosecution thinks of their case?

BLOOM: You could look at it that way. You could look at it that the prosecution, they think their case is a little bit weaker. They don't even want defense attorneys in there mucking up this pre-trial proceeding but you can look at it as perhaps trying to protect the privacy of the victim , the alleged victim in this case, the little boy who's at the center of it. Perhaps they want a procedure where he can come, he can testify without the defense attorney, without the media cameras, nothing being present.

COOPER: But they're saying Michael Jackson does have the opportunity to come forward and testify.

BLOOM: What happened was Michael Jackson will be subpoenaed like defendants always are. Of course, he will come and assert his Fifth Amendment right not to testify. That's the most likely outcome. In this case, the prosecution has sent a letter to Michael Jackson's attorney saying, we would welcome you to come on down. That's a normal kind of formality before the grand jury. It doesn't mean a lot.

COOPER: But there's not any advantage for him to come and testify. It would be ridiculous for him to.

BLOOM: Only disadvantages for him to come and testify. Primarily, he could be cross-examined about his past, including the 1993 allegations, the 1994 settlement, other rumors that have swirled around him for years. There really will be no reason for him to come.

COOPER: So how long does the grand jury last for?

BLOOM: It could last for probably a couple of weeks in a case like this. It is hard to tell because these are highly secret.

COOPER: Any sense of when this thing -- if it does, in fact, get to a trial, when it might happen?

BLOOM: No, no sense. First, we have to have the indictment. That would be after the grand jury.

COOPER: You hear from defense, prosecution. How strong does the defense think their case is?

BLOOM: They think their case is strong. They have been saying all along, including on CNN, that it is all about the money, it is a shakedown, the kid has told prior inconsistent statements saying nothing has happened. At least according to what they're saying to the media they think their case is strong. Whether it is true in court remains to be seen. COOPER: And prosecution -- publicly.

BLOOM: They say the same thing publicly, of course, that their case is strong.

The hard thing is in a case like this with a gag order we can't really evaluate the evidence too clearly. We're only evaluating what we get through leaks which are motivated by one side or the other trying to tell the media their side of the story. It is hard to evaluate the case at this point.

COOPER: All right. Lisa Bloom. Thanks very much. From Court TV. Appreciate it.

Well, every Tuesday we look at a story that the media has all but forgotten about. There are often a lot of them. How quickly we forget we call it. It has been a tough year for Baylor's basketball team dealing with a teammate found shot to death last summer, another player charged with his murder. As Ed Lavandera reports, the media might have moved from the story, but the players at Baylor certainly have not.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No matter where the Baylor basketball team played this year, the whispers followed. This team has been through scandal, and you get the feeling fans didn't expect them to win a game all year. Expectations could not have been lower for Baylor's new basketball coach.

SCOTT DREW, BAYLOR BASKETBALL COACH: Going into the season, we weren't supposed to win any conference games and weren't supposed to be competitive.

LAVANDERA: In the end, Baylor wasn't the worst team. They ended the season with an 8-21 record. The talk now is of next year, not what happened last summer.

TERRANCE THOMAS, BAYLOR BASKETBALL PLAYER: Keep working hard and stay disciplined through the whole situation. The light at the end of the tunnel is bright.

LAVANDERA: This season started after Baylor player Carlton Dotson was accused of murdering teammate Patrick Dennehy. Then the head coach Dave Bliss was accused of paying players and of trying to thwart the school's investigation of the scandal by smearing Dennehy, calling him a drug dealer. It ended with Baylor's basketball program on probation until August of 2006. Because of the scandal, three of Baylor's top players left the school. All three are doing well with their new teams.

Lawrence Roberts plays for Mississippi State and was named player of the year in this conference. Dave Bliss now lives in Colorado reportedly working at a sporting goods store. Carlton Dotson sits in a Waco jail awaiting his murder trial which is supposed to start in August. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, the possibility of jail time. What is going through Martha Stewart's mind? Her daughter speaks out in a CNN exclusive. We'll talk about that ahead.

Plus, why some are skipping doughnuts and joining the cream puff craze. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So Martha Stewart is going to be sentenced this June. And legally, experts think it's likely the judge will impose a sentence that sends her to jail. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Larry King, that airs tomorrow night, Stewart's only daughter, Alexis, says her mother's reaction to being convicted left her feeling like, quote, "her life had been wasted."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: How do you think she's going to handle all this?

ALEXIS STEWART, MARTHA STEWART'S DAUGHTER: She'll be OK.

KING: She's always been strong, right? And stoic. I mean, she's kind of above the fray in a sense.

How did she handle the verdict?

STEWART: Well, she didn't faint.

KING: No, she did not. What did she say to you?

STEWART: She's disappointed over feeling like her life was wasted. Everything she did is ignored over something that ...

KING: Trivial.

STEWART: Trivial, that maybe didn't happen.

KING: Are you going to write to the judge at all? Are you going to express your feelings?

STEWART: If someone thinks that's appropriate, I'd be happy to.

KING: Are you nervous?

STEWART: About the verdict?

KING: About the possibility your mother might have to go away?

STEWART: Nervous, I guess.

KING: I mean, you realize this, right, that it could happen?

STEWART: I try not to focus on it. Yes, I realize that. I think it would be incredibly wrong. But I'm hoping that won't happen.

KING: And if it did, she would handle it well?

STEWART: Oh, yes.

KING: Boy, you have a lot of confidence in your mom, don't you?

STEWART: Well, yes. Sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Join the incomparable Larry King, live, tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern for his exclusive interview with Martha Stewart's daughter, Alexis. That's tomorrow evening, 9:00 Eastern time.

So a couple of years ago those crispy doughnuts made a huge comeback. Remember them? But now, an old-fashioned pastry seems to be sweeping the country. They call it the cream puff. CNN's Jeanne Moos bites into the cream puff craze.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a dessert that had been all but deserted, when suddenly, New Yorkers began lining up for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it worth the wait in line?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They melt in your mouth.

MOOS: Bagel beware; Krispy Kreme, prepare to be creamed. Puff Daddy, there is a new puff on the block.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of stuff do they have?

MOOS (on camera): Cream puffs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, is that what it is?

MOOS (voice-over): Wrinkle your nose, but this could be the comeback of the cream puff, thanks to the Japanese.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING JAPANESE).

MOOS: Loosely translated, that's "here come the world's greatest puffs."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is dreamy and creamy. It is better than having a love if you don't have. It is better than lotto.

MOOS: The Japanese chain Beard Pappa (ph) recently opened its first U.S. outpost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a secret recipe. MOOS: The filling, a blend of whipped cream and custard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

MOOS: Will this inject new life into a dying dessert? They're good enough for Shiba (ph) and her owner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's chowing down on that one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have cream puff on my diamonds. How about that?

MOOS (on camera): Is it in my hair?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the goo. I keep spitting on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My girl saw it in the Japanese newspaper, made me ride all the way from Queens on a bicycle to get this. Apparently, this is like...

MOOS: You must love her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

MOOS (voice-over): Devon (ph) here says his favorite food is macaroni and cheese.

(on camera): Devon (ph), if you had to choose between macaroni and cheese or cream puffs, what's it going to be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cream puff.

MOOS (voice-over): Two hundred and fifty calories each, or 220 if you miss your mouth.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So if you listen closely, you can hear my arteries harden.

The race for the White House is heating up. That's coming up. The top contenders playing an old political game. We're going to take that to "The Nth Degree."

Plus, tomorrow, our series "Against All Odds" continues, with surviving war. Soldiers share their stories of survival.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Tonight, taking the flip-flop to "The Nth Degree." No, no, no, not that kind of flip-flop. We're talking about the age-old political game. A politician says different things to different audiences and holds contradictory views at the same time.

President Bush, who has been for and against nation-building, says John Kerry has been for and against the war in Iraq. Now, we take no sides, you understand, and only want to point out that here you have a handy definition of the term in a nutshell. See, it's flip-flopping when your opponent does it. If you do it, it's a mature and considered change of mind in response to altered circumstances.

One more thing. Flip-flopping is also called waffling. I'm sure we don't have to explain why. I'm also sure we couldn't if we did have to.

I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 16, 2004 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): France on alert: a letter linked to Islamists threatens New terror attacks.

Challenging the enemy: Kerry claims support from foreign leaders. Now President Bush says, back it up.

A manhunt in Ohio. Have you seen this suspect? He could be armed and dangerous. We'll have a live report.

Our special series, "Against All Odds: Remarkable Stories of Survival": tonight, surviving terror.

The great buttery flavor mystery. Is too much popcorn popping bad for your lungs?

And what's with all these cream puffs? Will people start dissing the doughnut?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live, from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And welcome to 360.

Up first, anxious allies. With Spain reeling after the terror, President Bush calls on the coalition to remain committed to Iraq. The White House clearly concerned about the strength of European resolve.

Suzanne Malveaux is covering the story in Washington, and in London, CNN's Matthew Chance. We begin with the White House -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, despite the turnover in Spain, President Bush insists that the other 30-plus members of the coalition in Iraq are committed to making it work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush refused to connect Spain's worst terrorist attack in history and the election ousting its pro- Bush, pro-war prime minister. To do so the administration believes would give the terrorists a big win.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are cold- blooded killers. I mean, they will kill innocent people to try to shake our will. That's what they want to do. And they'll never shake the will of the United States.

MALVEAUX: Despite losing a key ally in the war with Iraq, Spain's Jose Maria Aznar, the administration is stressing that it still has broad international support. Meeting in the Oval Office with the prime minister of the Netherlands, many in his country shaky following the bombings in Spain, want their 1,000 troops in Iraq pulled out. Mr. Bush says now is not the time for allies to back down.

BUSH: I would ask them to think about the Iraqi citizens who don't want people to withdraw because they want to be free.

MALVEAUX: But some believe the administration's tough talk on Iraq, now a year after the war in Iraq, is not the best way to keep the coalition together.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: We should stop this talk of unilateralism, and we should stop this bravado that has characterized some parts of the administration, and talk about the need for NATO to work together, get NATO into Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the administration is considering a variety of ways of continuing to reach out to Spain's new prime minister, who called the war and occupation in Iraq a disaster. One possibility is President Bush visiting Spain to meet with the new leader -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Suzanne, at the White House, thanks.

Today, both France and Germany, countries that actively opposed the war in Iraq, are calling for a united Europe in the fight against terror.

CNN's Matthew Chance reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Spanish government already toppled, across Europe there seems renewed opposition for the way the U.S.-led war on terror has been waged. In Paris, the French and German leaders spoke of matching military strength with political action.

JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): The international community must mobilize, be clear, work together to stop conflicts and feed frustration.

GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): One needs to look at the roots of terrorism as well. And one of these roots is the lack of development in the third world. CHANCE: But first, it is the need to bolster security in Europe that's being addressed. Already, there are calls for airport-style checks at German train stations and undercover British anti-terrorism police patrolling the London transport system. Authorities there say it is a question of when, not if, the British capital will be hit.

SIR JOHN STEVENS, METROPOLITAN POLICE COMMISSIONER: But take my word for it, we have foiled major events. Some of those events will be going to criminal courts. Some, in terms of what is disrupted, which we can't talk about, have definitely taken place, believe you me.

CHANCE: After Spain, though, the big question for European leader is what effects will attacks have on their governments.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, if London is attacked, which is what the authorities say is inevitable here in Britain, what will be the reaction of the British people? Will they rally around their prime minister, Tony Blair, much in the same way as the American public did after 9/11 around President Bush, or will they take the position that the Spanish public has taken, basically holding their government, its leadership at least, responsible for kind of bringing the terrorism down upon them. With so many threats abounding here in Europe, it is a big concern for many European governments -- Anderson.

COOPER: Matthew, talking about so many threats, a new threat today against France. What do you know about it? What's the latest?

CHANCE: Well, we don't know a great deal. We know that the French authorities have said that this is a menacing threat which promises to plunge France into terror and into remorse.

It was issued by a shadowy -- in fact, previously unknown -- Muslim extremist group and signed in the name of a prominent, but now dead, Chechen rebel. The letter makes a point, though, of calling for a lifting of the controversial French ban on headscarves for Muslim women, and is being investigated. The real point, though, is the fact that this is being taken so seriously gives us an indication of how worried governments across Europe are now.

COOPER: All right. Matthew Chance, live in London. Thanks, Matthew.

Now to the race for the White House. President Bush is asking Democratic front-runner John Kerry to name some names after he said he had the support of some world leaders.

With that, here is CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Bush campaign believes it has John Kerry on the run. BUSH: I think it's -- look, if you're going to make an accusation in the course of a presidential campaign, you ought to back it up with facts.

FRANKEN: Meaning Kerry's claims leaders overseas want Bush out and Kerry in. CNN has obtained an audiotape of his remarks from a Boston Globe reporter in the room.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly, but boy, they look at you and say, you've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy, we need a new policy...

FRANKEN: Leaders he will not identify because, he insists, that would violate confidences. And the White House says if Kerry refuses then he must be making up.

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry said, "That's none of your business." But it is our business when a candidate for president claims the political endorsement of foreign leaders.

FRANKEN: Kerry insisted again the real credibility issue is the White House issue over health care, the economy, the war in Iraq.

KERRY: And on each and every one of them, this administration has yet to level with the American people.

FRANKEN: When Kerry appeared before another veterans' group, this one in West Virginia, the Bush campaign rushed out a new ad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though John Kerry voted in October 2002 for military action in Iraq, he later voted against funding our soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Kerry...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

KERRY: I understand that the Republican attack machine has welcomed me to West Virginia today with another distortion.

FRANKEN: A distortion, Kerry insisted, because he only voted no after Republicans refused to reduce the tax cut for the wealthy, to finance the support for U.S. troops.

(on camera): Both sides are doing their utmost to play offense to avoid having to play defense.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, right now, police in Ohio are on alert and on the hunt for Charles A. McCoy, a suspect in the highway shootings, a man they considered armed and dangerous. We're finding out more and more about the suspect. CNN, in fact, has learned that McCoy's mother had filed a missing person's report on her son even before he became a suspect in the months-long sniper attacks.

CNN's Jonathan Freed has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After 10 months in the grip of fear, the people of Columbus, Ohio, are learning more and more about Charles A. McCoy, Jr., the man police believe has been stalking them on the road and shooting at their homes.

DAVID BROWN, NEIGHBOR: Just shocked, you know? That's who he is. He lives right there.

FREED: Imagine discovering that the suspect is the same man you think you helped out after his car hit a neighborhood street sign awhile back.

BRIEN TAYNOR, NEIGHBOR: He just looked like an average Joe. You never know.

FREED: The Franklin County Sheriff's Office told CNN on Tuesday that the man who grew up nearby and played high school football is now considered suicidal, with homicidal tendencies. Still at large, McCoy's family is begging him to give up.

AMY WALTON, MCCOY'S SISTER: Mom and I need you to call us. We will arrange for you to come home.

FREED: There have been 24 shootings, including a deadly one in November, targeting moving cars on or near the Columbus Beltway, blowing out tires and shattering windshields.

CHIEF DEPUTY STEVE MARTIN, FRANKLIN COUNTY: The investigation conducted has identified McCoy as a suspect in these I-270 cases.

FREED: McCoy is charged with shooting a house in the area, and ballistics link that incident to some of the highway sniper shootings. His mother filed a missing person's report. Noteworthy. She says he had a goatee at the time he disappeared.

There is also some community frustration. Court records show that McCoy has a history of DUIs and speeding, and that he was pulled over twice since the attacks started. But Columbus is not without hope.

BRIAN WORBY, NEIGHBOR: ... that it will end peacefully without anybody else getting shot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: The Columbus Dispatch is reporting that McCoy's father give two of his son's handguns to authorities, that there was a ballistics match, and that that kicked off the search for McCoy -- Anderson.

COOPER: And that search is still on. Jonathan Freed, thanks very much, in Columbus.

Columbus, Ohio, is not the only place facing a string of highway shootings. Here's a quick news note for you. The San Francisco Bay area has also seen a number of highway shootings. Eight cars were shot at during a 90-minute period on the 580 Freeway on February 23.

A 27-year-old man named Christopher Gafford was taken into custody last week, but charges of attempted murder were dropped just 24 hours later. Police say they expect to re-arrest him soon. Gafford says he is innocent.

We're following a number of developing stories right now "Cross Country." Let's take a look.

From the Ohio Valley to the northeastern U.S., winter has returned -- at least it seems that way -- for the moment. Snow is falling. Some higher elevations will get more than a foot. New York will get three to six inches; Cleveland, five to 10; Boston, six to 12 inches; and Portland, Maine, more than a foot. And yesterday it seemed spring was in the air.

Washington: no hike rate in interest rates at the Fed, at least not this month. The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee decided today to keep their main short-term interest rate unchanged at 1 percent. That's the rate banks charge each other for overnight loans.

Along the Mexican border now: the INS goes high tech. The border patrol has now begun using remote control drone aircraft to keep watch on border areas. The Homeland Security Department believe they will help shut down drug trafficking, as well as illegal immigration.

In another new program, the department is now working with Mexican authorities to send detained illegal immigrants back to their home towns in Mexico. Previously, the U.S. just moved them across the border to Laredo, Texas, where many of them immediately tried again to cross into the U.S. This time, they're taking them in deeper.

Santa Barbara County, California, now. The Jackson case going to the grand jury. Sources tell CNN that the child molestation case against singer Michael Jackson will be presented to a grand jury. Sources also said that Jackson has been invited to appear to offer his side of the story.

There was no immediate comment, however, from Jackson's lawyers. We're going to have more on this story later on in the program.

And in Los Angeles, California: Whitney Houston checks into rehab. The singer's publicist announced in a statement that Houston has entered a program. She refused to release any further details. The singer has had several brushes with the law over illegal drug use.

And that's the story for now. That's a look "Cross Country" tonight.

Microwave popcorn's $20 million verdict. You've probably heard about it. A jury rules the oils damaged a factory worker's lungs. Well, now the EPA is researching the health impact on you. What is in that fake buttery flavor?

Plus, against all odds. Two people who lived through terrorist attacks share their stories of survival. Find out what life lessons they've learned from their close brushes with death. It is part of our weeklong series.

And new terror arrests in Pakistan. Is al Qaeda branching out since their leaders are on the run? We'll take a closer look.

First, let's take a look "Inside the Box" at the top stories on tonight's network newscasts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, in this age of terror, and just days after the Madrid bombings, you may be fearful, thinking, what would I do if a terrorist attacked? Tonight, as we continue our series, "Against All Odds: Stories of Survival," we hear from two people who have come face to face with terror. They share what they've learned from their brushes with death. We begin with one woman's remarkable story.

Here is CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surviving is hell. It's hard.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Priscilla Saliers (ph) works for the U.S. Secret Service in Oklahoma City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow.

TUCHMAN: In 1995, she worked for the Customs Service in the Murrah Federal Building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't have come any closer to dying than I did.

TUCHMAN: Priscilla (ph) fell five floors after the explosion, was buried under rubble for hours with only her left hand free. When she got home from the hospital, she told us...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I made sure I had an air pocket. I pulled rocks out from under me. I could get this hand. And I wanted to be sure that I had air coming to me.

TUCHMAN: She broke her ribs and punctured a lung. But survival brought out demons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember the first time I felt joy, and, you know, I do want to live. And then I felt guilty because I was feeling joy and there were still families that were hurting so bad. I mean, the survivors guilt is horrible.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Nearly nine years after this disaster, Priscilla Saliers (ph) tries to live her life as normally as possible. But even after all this time, she finds there is no escaping occasional bouts of depression and anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever finish that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're almost done with it.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Her family and faith all helped her greatly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I finally realized I don't have to feel guilty.

TUCHMAN: But she does feel a type of kinship few can relate to when she sees what happened in Spain and 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart went out to people that were getting ready to go down this road that I had already been down.

TUCHMAN: A road she continues to travel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't get over it. You get through it.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Oklahoma City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You don't get over it. You get through it.

Every person responds to trauma in different ways. One 9/11 firefighter, Richard Picciotto, found himself in the north tower on the 6th floor when the building collapsed on top of him. As he told me when we talked earlier, he was sure he was going to die.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD PICCIOTTO, 9/11 SURVIVOR: Yes, I thought without a doubt I was going to be dead in a matter of seconds. I just thought it was over. I knew the south tower had collapsed approximately 30 minutes earlier. And now I was still in the north tower.

I was up on the 35th floor. I got down to approximately the 6th. And it took eight seconds for the north tower to collapse. And my last final thought, which I thought was going to be my final thought, was just, please, god, make it quick.

COOPER: And then after that thought, you're surrounded by dust, you're surrounded by debris.

PICCIOTTO: From this tremendous noise. The noise was just tremendous, shaking, being tossed around like rag dolls. And then literally being in the building as it's falling.

You have this falling sensation. It was black, so you really couldn't see. But I just knew that I was falling.

Until this tremendous noise and shaking, and then all of a sudden a deathly quiet, a stillness. And I thought I was dead. And then I realized I wasn't. I was still alive.

There was a group of us there in various levels in the stairwell. What remained of the stairwell was filled with debris. Found some flashlights. Turned them on. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) carried flashlights. We turned our flashlights on, and we could see that we were in this void, this air pocket that remained.

COOPER: People say to you, god wanted you to live. Do you believe that?

PICCIOTTO: I don't know. I know he didn't want 343 other firemen to die and 3,000 other people to die.

So why me? That that old survivor's thing. You know, why am I here and 1,000 or 3,000 other people aren't?

COOPER: And people talk about survivor's guilt. Is that something you feel yourself?

PICCIOTTO: Yes, without a doubt. I'm lucky enough to be alive.

I'm not joyous. You have this mixture of emotions. I mean, should I be happy?

Meanwhile, I lost 343 of my brothers. I can't be happy, even though I am happy that I'm alive. You know, so you have this dichotomy of emotions.

COOPER: As you look back now, how has this changed your life?

PICCIOTTO: I appreciate life. One of the biggest things I appreciate. I realized how precious life is. It is a gift that can be taken away at any second.

COOPER: Richard, thanks very much for joining us.

PICCIOTTO: Thank you.

Well, terror fear spreading. Does al Qaeda have a new strategy of destruction? We're going to take a closer look at that.

Plus, Martha Stewart facing prison. Her daughter speaks out in a CNN exclusive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for the "Reset" of tonight's top stories. Let's get you back up to speed.

In Washington, the president says the allies in Iraq need to stand together. President Bush said today that Spain and other allies should not bow down to pressure from al Qaeda to pull their troops out of Iraq. The White House also said they may ask the United Nations for a new resolution that would help persuade the allies to stand firm. In Columbus, Ohio, police are searching for this man, the highway shooter suspect. Just a suspect. Charles McCoy Jr. is being sought for involvement in the string of highway shootings there. Police say they think he is armed and dangerous. One woman was killed last November in that shooting spree.

Las Vegas, Nevada, Gennifer Flowers loses her suit. A federal judge has dismissed a suit by Gennifer Flowers, that's a name from the past, against two one time advisers to former Bill Clinton. Flowers says that James Carville and George Stephanopolis. The judge said no reasonable jury would convict the men. I guess she's singing now.

Finally out in space, location, location, location. Company that has sold tourist trips to the speaker national space station says it is scouting locations for a space port to send tourists up for suborbital trips. The potential launch complex would also include a space training center. Sights in the Bahamas, the U.S., Malaysia, Singapore, and Dobai are all under consideration. Or you could just take a Carnival Cruise.

Fierce fighting along the Pakistani border has left 24 terrorist suspects dead and 18 wounded. All of this according to Pakistani Military.

With the latest CNN's Ash-Har Quraishi, joins us live by videophone from Islamabad.

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this latest operation was launched by Pakistani paramilitary troops after a tip- off indicating the presence of what they call, "miscreants" in the area, in northwest Pakistan, in the tribal belt. This is located south (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Now, as several others were called in to try to negotiate the surrender, when that didn't happen and gunfire erupted, as you mentioned it was an all-day operation at the end of which 24 suspects were killed, eight paramilitary soldiers were killed. Part of an ongoing operation by the Pakistani military squeeze out al Qaeda in Pakistan's northwest tribal region -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Ash-Har Quraishi, live from Islamabad. Thanks very much, Ash-Har.

As Pakistan steps up the raids, French investigators are looking into attack threats by an Islamist group. While in Spain authorities are trying build their case against the suspects in the Madrid bombings. International terrorism is back in our faces, and it leads us to wonder, are we making any head way against it.

Joining us is terrorism analyst Peter Bergen. Peter, thanks very for being with us. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the capturing or killing of Osama bin laden would not change the problem of international terrorism. Do you agree with that, if so, why?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yes, I do agree. Because Osama bin Laden has sort of created this jihad around the world. And right now, the train has sort of left the station. Capturing would be very useful in terms of bringing justice to victims of 9/11 who we saw in this program. And, also, he is operating as the chief deal of this movement. He is calling for attacks against Spanish targets. And we saw that in Madrid that those happen. But this is a larger ideological movement than one man. So, capturing bin Laden would be a useful break through but not the end of the war on terrorism.

COOPER: I've heard people describe -- I mean, it used sort of al Qaeda was a vertically integrated organization with bin Laden somewhere near the top and other lieutenants around him.

People now sort of say it is more of a horizontal organization.

What does that mean, exactly?

BERGEN: It was a vertical, like corporate organization almost before 9/11. They paid people's salaries in some cases. Now it is more an ideological movement of like-minded individuals, many of whom may have not been in Afghanistan or even met with bin Laden but were inspired by his rhetoric. But we talk about al Qaeda as sort of short hand for a lot of different phenomenon. The organization itself, the affiliate groups, the franchise groups and the larger ideological movement that unfortunately going to be around for some time.

COOPER: How much do you get a sense that people know or sort of the average person really knows what is going on in the war on terror?

I ask this because 24 hours ago Saudi Arabia killed a major al Qaeda figure in Saudi Arabia. And then there's word from the Pakistan military that killed 24 terror suspects somewhere in tribal regions. They released video couple days ago where they said was a Pakistani tribe who were going to be out on the hunt. Not quite sure how video cameras just happened to be at this meeting.

Do we really know what's going on?

BERGEN: I think there are a lot of things we do and don't know. I think another question may be is -- what you talked about at the top of the piece, is how well is this all going. I think what happened in Madrid speaks for itself. We've had two wars since 9/11 in the name of the war on terrorism. We spent 10s of billions of dollars trying to break the back of al Qaeda and saw 200 being killed as they went to work on a Thursday morning in center of a Europe and also swung the Spanish election in these kind of militant's favor. They obviously have a lot of life left in them.

COOPER: How do they look at the -- what happened in Spain, the aftermath of this attack?

I mean, if you are a member of al Qaeda, how do you not read that as a victory?

BERGEN: I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, CNN has found an Internet posting in December which indicated members of al Qaeda were discussing, how can we throw the Spanish election sort of in our favor, how can we get Spain out of the Iraq war. We think of Spain as being the weak link of the coalition. And obviously they acted on those thoughts.

COOPER: So then the big question is, what happens next, Europe, perhaps even here?

If this opens up the flood gates, they see this method works, we can change democracy, we're going to see more terror attacks?

BERGEN: Certainly. More likely in Europe. I think the analysis would be to go after Britain or France or Italy. I think the United States stills remains a tougher target.

COOPER: Very disturbing. Peter Bergen, appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

BERGEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Revelation in today's "Los Angeles Times." High-ranking officials at UCLA may have known about problems with it's donating cadaver program a year before it launched an investigation into it. A whole year. Paper says in February of last year state health inspectors warned the university of possible misuse of bodies donated for medical research. Relatives of donors say they are planning on suing UCLA and others.

Carol Martin filed a lawsuit today. Her husband was willed four years ago.

She and her attorney, Matt Geragos, joins us, now. Appreciate both of you being with us.

Carol, let me start off with you. Your husband wanted his body donated for medical research.

Do you know what happened to him?

CAROL MARTIN, HUSBAND DONATED BODY: Well, no, I don't. Not at this time.

COOPER: Why did he want to donate his body?

MARTIN: Well, he had been ill for years, and the doctors always seemed to bring him through.

He wanted to help some future doctor or someone in the medical profession to...

COOPER: You had wanted his body cremated, and you -- they told you they were going to do that. They told you they are going to let you know in advance. They never called you, you called them. They said, oh, yes, we did that. Now, you're not sure if that's true.

MARTIN: Yes. Well, we don't. We don't know. There's no way to know now.

COOPER: What's your greatest fear in all this, Carol? MARTIN: That he was one of the persons that had parts of his body sold. And when they told me they were taking him to have him cremated at the end of all this, that he really didn't make it there either, to the cemetery.

COOPER: Matt, at this point the suit not against UCLA because there are a number of legal issues about that. There will probably come in a couple weeks.

Who are you suing is what are you looking for?

MATT GERAGOS, LAWYER: Right now, we have an action against the Johnson and Johnson, the subsidiary that purchased the body parts. Also against the gentleman, Earnest Nelson, and his entity he ran the business from. First and foremost will be that nothing likes this happens again so persons such as Carol and with their spouses don't have to go through this again. And then after that, we're also looking -- I'll be joined in this action by a number of class action attorneys from across the nation who brought this to us because of other event that is have occurred in down in Tulane University and the sale of bodies there. So this is something that could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of these pharmaceutical companies and others in the purchasing of body parts and whole bodies.

COOPER: Also, the revelation today that UCLA may have known about it a whole year ago certainly helps your case. Carol, final question to you. You once considered donating your body to science.

Would you still do it?

MARTIN: No. Not at this time.

COOPER: Sad testimony, that. Carol Martin appreciate you joining us and Matt Geragos, thank you very much.

GERAGOS: Thank you.

COOPER: We have a couple fast facts on the subject for organ donations for you. Medical school that is run most of the country's body donation programs need more than 10,000 cadavers a year. They use them to teach both students and physicians human anatomy and surgical procedures. Medical schools do not accept every body. Offer bodies may be rejected if they've been embalmed, autopsy, or people obese or emaciated or died from a communicable disease. That's how it's supposed to work.

Today, a story that crime knows no bounds. A 9-year-old boy facing the barrel of a gun. The gun was held by his own father.

Eric Phillips has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIRLEY MCCONNELL, NEIGHBOR: He come driving up the street on his bike. From what I understand he was all bloody and everything said, what's happening. He said, my mom and dad is dead. My mom and dad's dead.

ERIC PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The frantic words from a boy who rode his bike from this home in California to a family friend's house two miles away to report the horror he had just seen. Authorities, say it happened Sunday afternoon at the home, which is about an hour outside of San Bernardino. They say 83-year-old Oscar Lawrence and his girlfriend 44-year-old Anita Kinard, had gotten into an argument. They say Lawrence shot Kinard, killing her and than shot their 9-year-old son Aaron in the arm. The boy played dead. His father than turned the gun on himself.

ROBIN HAYNAL, SAN BERNARDINO CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.: When he was shot, he fell under the table. And what he did was play dead until he heard his father shoot himself. He waited a little while to make sure the coast was clear and that he would be safe getting up.

PHILLIPS: Neighbors say the couple was friendly enough. They knew the 83-year-old as Reverend Lawrence. The 9-year-old who was taken into the custody of Child Protective Services was, apparently, celebrating a birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter was asking if she could go to his birthday party. I knew it was soon. I heard it was today. What a birthday present.

PHILLIPS: But the 9-year-old still has the gift of life, thanks to his own quick thinking. Eric Phillips, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Unbelievable.

Martha Stewart facing prison. What's going through her mind? Coming up, a CNN exclusive. Her daughter speaks out for the first time.

Plus a new twist in the Michael Jackson case. We'll talk about that going to the grand jury.

And the cream puff craze. Have you heard about this? An old- fashioned pastry is making a big comeback. That little girl likes it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for "Justice Served." A new twist in Michael Jackson's legal fight. Prosecutors in Santa Barbara are taking the child molestation case to a grand jury. The D.A. could have chosen to present the evidence at a preliminary hearing like at the Kobe Bryant or Scott Peterson case but he didn't. On the case for us, Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. So why did they make the decision? Why go to the grand jury?

LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Well, in a preliminary hearing, the prosecution is highly likely to get an indictment whereas in a grand jury they're overwhelmingly likely to get indictment. They have a little bit of an extra edge, it's a secret proceeding. Defense attorneys not only don't get to come and cross-examine witnesses or present any kind of a case, they don't get to come at all. They are not welcome in the door in a grand jury. It is purely a prosecution show.

COOPER: So if you are reading tea leaves does this indicate about what the prosecution thinks of their case?

BLOOM: You could look at it that way. You could look at it that the prosecution, they think their case is a little bit weaker. They don't even want defense attorneys in there mucking up this pre-trial proceeding but you can look at it as perhaps trying to protect the privacy of the victim , the alleged victim in this case, the little boy who's at the center of it. Perhaps they want a procedure where he can come, he can testify without the defense attorney, without the media cameras, nothing being present.

COOPER: But they're saying Michael Jackson does have the opportunity to come forward and testify.

BLOOM: What happened was Michael Jackson will be subpoenaed like defendants always are. Of course, he will come and assert his Fifth Amendment right not to testify. That's the most likely outcome. In this case, the prosecution has sent a letter to Michael Jackson's attorney saying, we would welcome you to come on down. That's a normal kind of formality before the grand jury. It doesn't mean a lot.

COOPER: But there's not any advantage for him to come and testify. It would be ridiculous for him to.

BLOOM: Only disadvantages for him to come and testify. Primarily, he could be cross-examined about his past, including the 1993 allegations, the 1994 settlement, other rumors that have swirled around him for years. There really will be no reason for him to come.

COOPER: So how long does the grand jury last for?

BLOOM: It could last for probably a couple of weeks in a case like this. It is hard to tell because these are highly secret.

COOPER: Any sense of when this thing -- if it does, in fact, get to a trial, when it might happen?

BLOOM: No, no sense. First, we have to have the indictment. That would be after the grand jury.

COOPER: You hear from defense, prosecution. How strong does the defense think their case is?

BLOOM: They think their case is strong. They have been saying all along, including on CNN, that it is all about the money, it is a shakedown, the kid has told prior inconsistent statements saying nothing has happened. At least according to what they're saying to the media they think their case is strong. Whether it is true in court remains to be seen. COOPER: And prosecution -- publicly.

BLOOM: They say the same thing publicly, of course, that their case is strong.

The hard thing is in a case like this with a gag order we can't really evaluate the evidence too clearly. We're only evaluating what we get through leaks which are motivated by one side or the other trying to tell the media their side of the story. It is hard to evaluate the case at this point.

COOPER: All right. Lisa Bloom. Thanks very much. From Court TV. Appreciate it.

Well, every Tuesday we look at a story that the media has all but forgotten about. There are often a lot of them. How quickly we forget we call it. It has been a tough year for Baylor's basketball team dealing with a teammate found shot to death last summer, another player charged with his murder. As Ed Lavandera reports, the media might have moved from the story, but the players at Baylor certainly have not.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No matter where the Baylor basketball team played this year, the whispers followed. This team has been through scandal, and you get the feeling fans didn't expect them to win a game all year. Expectations could not have been lower for Baylor's new basketball coach.

SCOTT DREW, BAYLOR BASKETBALL COACH: Going into the season, we weren't supposed to win any conference games and weren't supposed to be competitive.

LAVANDERA: In the end, Baylor wasn't the worst team. They ended the season with an 8-21 record. The talk now is of next year, not what happened last summer.

TERRANCE THOMAS, BAYLOR BASKETBALL PLAYER: Keep working hard and stay disciplined through the whole situation. The light at the end of the tunnel is bright.

LAVANDERA: This season started after Baylor player Carlton Dotson was accused of murdering teammate Patrick Dennehy. Then the head coach Dave Bliss was accused of paying players and of trying to thwart the school's investigation of the scandal by smearing Dennehy, calling him a drug dealer. It ended with Baylor's basketball program on probation until August of 2006. Because of the scandal, three of Baylor's top players left the school. All three are doing well with their new teams.

Lawrence Roberts plays for Mississippi State and was named player of the year in this conference. Dave Bliss now lives in Colorado reportedly working at a sporting goods store. Carlton Dotson sits in a Waco jail awaiting his murder trial which is supposed to start in August. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, the possibility of jail time. What is going through Martha Stewart's mind? Her daughter speaks out in a CNN exclusive. We'll talk about that ahead.

Plus, why some are skipping doughnuts and joining the cream puff craze. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So Martha Stewart is going to be sentenced this June. And legally, experts think it's likely the judge will impose a sentence that sends her to jail. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Larry King, that airs tomorrow night, Stewart's only daughter, Alexis, says her mother's reaction to being convicted left her feeling like, quote, "her life had been wasted."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: How do you think she's going to handle all this?

ALEXIS STEWART, MARTHA STEWART'S DAUGHTER: She'll be OK.

KING: She's always been strong, right? And stoic. I mean, she's kind of above the fray in a sense.

How did she handle the verdict?

STEWART: Well, she didn't faint.

KING: No, she did not. What did she say to you?

STEWART: She's disappointed over feeling like her life was wasted. Everything she did is ignored over something that ...

KING: Trivial.

STEWART: Trivial, that maybe didn't happen.

KING: Are you going to write to the judge at all? Are you going to express your feelings?

STEWART: If someone thinks that's appropriate, I'd be happy to.

KING: Are you nervous?

STEWART: About the verdict?

KING: About the possibility your mother might have to go away?

STEWART: Nervous, I guess.

KING: I mean, you realize this, right, that it could happen?

STEWART: I try not to focus on it. Yes, I realize that. I think it would be incredibly wrong. But I'm hoping that won't happen.

KING: And if it did, she would handle it well?

STEWART: Oh, yes.

KING: Boy, you have a lot of confidence in your mom, don't you?

STEWART: Well, yes. Sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Join the incomparable Larry King, live, tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern for his exclusive interview with Martha Stewart's daughter, Alexis. That's tomorrow evening, 9:00 Eastern time.

So a couple of years ago those crispy doughnuts made a huge comeback. Remember them? But now, an old-fashioned pastry seems to be sweeping the country. They call it the cream puff. CNN's Jeanne Moos bites into the cream puff craze.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a dessert that had been all but deserted, when suddenly, New Yorkers began lining up for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it worth the wait in line?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They melt in your mouth.

MOOS: Bagel beware; Krispy Kreme, prepare to be creamed. Puff Daddy, there is a new puff on the block.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of stuff do they have?

MOOS (on camera): Cream puffs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, is that what it is?

MOOS (voice-over): Wrinkle your nose, but this could be the comeback of the cream puff, thanks to the Japanese.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING JAPANESE).

MOOS: Loosely translated, that's "here come the world's greatest puffs."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is dreamy and creamy. It is better than having a love if you don't have. It is better than lotto.

MOOS: The Japanese chain Beard Pappa (ph) recently opened its first U.S. outpost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a secret recipe. MOOS: The filling, a blend of whipped cream and custard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

MOOS: Will this inject new life into a dying dessert? They're good enough for Shiba (ph) and her owner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's chowing down on that one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have cream puff on my diamonds. How about that?

MOOS (on camera): Is it in my hair?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the goo. I keep spitting on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My girl saw it in the Japanese newspaper, made me ride all the way from Queens on a bicycle to get this. Apparently, this is like...

MOOS: You must love her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

MOOS (voice-over): Devon (ph) here says his favorite food is macaroni and cheese.

(on camera): Devon (ph), if you had to choose between macaroni and cheese or cream puffs, what's it going to be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cream puff.

MOOS (voice-over): Two hundred and fifty calories each, or 220 if you miss your mouth.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So if you listen closely, you can hear my arteries harden.

The race for the White House is heating up. That's coming up. The top contenders playing an old political game. We're going to take that to "The Nth Degree."

Plus, tomorrow, our series "Against All Odds" continues, with surviving war. Soldiers share their stories of survival.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Tonight, taking the flip-flop to "The Nth Degree." No, no, no, not that kind of flip-flop. We're talking about the age-old political game. A politician says different things to different audiences and holds contradictory views at the same time.

President Bush, who has been for and against nation-building, says John Kerry has been for and against the war in Iraq. Now, we take no sides, you understand, and only want to point out that here you have a handy definition of the term in a nutshell. See, it's flip-flopping when your opponent does it. If you do it, it's a mature and considered change of mind in response to altered circumstances.

One more thing. Flip-flopping is also called waffling. I'm sure we don't have to explain why. I'm also sure we couldn't if we did have to.

I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

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