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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Will Apparent Torture of Iraqis by U.S. Troops Lead to More Bloodshed?; Interview With Ted Koppel
Aired April 30, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Anderson Cooper.
Could still photographs change the course of a war in Iraq? 360 starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Shocking pictures the world wasn't meant to see. Will apparent torture of Iraqis by U.S. troops lead to more bloodshed on the battlefield?
Michael Jackson's day in court, a new lawyer and surprising new allegations against the one-time King of Pop.
Former NBA star Jayson Williams acquitted of aggravated manslaughter but convicted of trying to cover up a killing.
Preschoolers on Prozac, why are so many American parents pumping their children full of pills?
And they paid the ultimate price in the name of freedom. Tonight, Ted Koppel joins me to discuss his controversial "Nightline" special reading the names of U.S. service members killed in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
Good evening. We begin tonight with torture outrage. Arab TV networks plastering photos all over the airwaves today of U.S. troops apparently abusing Iraqi prisoners. We blurred out the images but we warn you some of them are disturbing.
The pictures show prisoners in humiliating positions, naked, degraded. In some, U.S. military police pose beside them. It is safe to say the last thing the U.S. mission in Iraq needs right now.
CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pentagon officials said the photos could hardly come at a worse time. From the president on down American officials are angry and apologetic.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.
ENSOR: The humiliation of the prisoners in the photos was especially embarrassing for a president who has repeatedly expressed pride in having closed Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and rape rooms.
BUSH: There will be an investigation and I think they'll be taken care of.
ENSOR: At the Pentagon, one senior official spoke of the danger the photos could incite Iraqis against American soldiers generally saying: "I don't want to suggest that this could cost American lives, but it certainly is hideous."
RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I'm very sorry this happened to these people and we'll do everything in our power to make sure it doesn't happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: And these may not be the only cases of abuse. U.S. intelligence officials confirm that the CIA inspector general is cooperating with Defense Department officials looking into some other alleged cases of abuse, including one where a prison died in Abu Ghurayb Prison. Said a CIA spokesman: "We do not support or condone the abuse of prisoners" -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, David Ensor thanks very much.
Iraq does not publish newspapers on Friday, the Muslim holy day, so today only those Iraqis with satellite TV actually saw those photos. The reaction in Baghdad was not good.
Here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis watch disturbing images of abuse and humiliation on the Arabiya Satellite News Network vividly depicting degradation of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers in Abu Ghurayb Prison outside Baghdad these images sending waves of revulsion through a conservative religious society that places a premium on dignity and modesty.
Abu Ghurayb Prison, once a notorious symbol of Saddam Hussein's repression now under American control few Iraqis likely to miss the irony that these acts were allegedly committed by soldiers of the very country that styles itself as a champion of human rights.
"It's wrong, wrong, 100 percent and a crime" says Halil (ph). "You came to liberate us from an unjust dictator who killed and tortured us."
WEDEMAN: Coalition officials aren't mincing their words when it comes to these images the authenticity of which have not been independently verified.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: Those soldiers let us down. They simply let use down.
WEDEMAN: The U.S. military says six soldiers have been charged with abusing inmates. The military also is conducting a thorough review of how Abu Ghurayb Prison is run.
Rumors have swirled around Baghdad for months that abuse of Iraqi prisoners was rife in Abu Ghurayb and for many Iraqis confronted with these images those rumors have now been confirmed.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Here's a 360 news note about prisoners held in Iraq right now. The Pentagon says it is currently holding about 8,000 prisoners at its largest prison Abu Ghurayb. That is the prison where those photos were taken. We asked the Pentagon today if they had the total number of prisoners held in Iraq and they say they do not.
This latest controversy on Iraq comes on the one year anniversary of President Bush's mission accomplished speech aboard an aircraft carrier. One year later, an election year, and the president finds himself today on the defensive.
CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): May 1, 2003, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush declared major combat over in Iraq. One year and more than 600 American casualties later, he defended those remarks.
BUSH: I did give the speech from the carrier saying that we had achieved an important objective, that we had accomplished a mission which was the removal of Saddam Hussein.
MALVEAUX: But the banner behind the president "mission accomplished" signaled to some Americans and Bush critics a swift win in Iraq. As the June 30 deadline to transfer power to the Iraqi people nears, insurgencies in Fallujah and Najaf threaten to undermine stability in the country and this April proved to be the bloodiest month ever in Iraq with at least 126 Americans killed.
BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead.
MALVEAUX: For Mr. Bush's critics, though, his declarations that day have come to symbolize the administration's failures. Since Mr. Bush's speech his chief political strategist, Carl Rove, and other top advisers have acknowledged they regret the "mission accomplished" banner overhead but they say the president's message has been consistent that bringing democracy to Iraqi is tough work.
Mr. Bush's opponent, John Kerry, is using the carrier image in one of his campaign ads but at a speech at Westminster College he focused on the future.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This anniversary is not a time to shout. It's not a time for blame. It is a time for a new direction in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now this year's events, of course, are taking a toll on President Bush's approval rating. The latest poll, CNN-USA Gallup poll, showing that this time last year 76 percent of Americans believed the president was handling Iraq well. They approved of the way he was handling it. That is down now to 48 percent -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Suzanne at the White House, Suzanne Malveaux thanks.
Coming up on tonight's program, "Nightline's" Ted Koppel joins me for an in-depth look at his decision to read the names of Americans killed in the line of duty in Iraq. Was it the right choice? We'll give you all the angles. That's coming up later on tonight.
Let's take a quick look at other stories we're following right now "Cross Country."
In Los Angeles, California, truckers block at least four L.A. freeways protesting high fuel prices. One trucker says he is paying $1,400 a month just for fuel.
Minneapolis, Minnesota now, crash landing. Take a look at this. A military cargo plane has a rough landing at Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport after its landing gear failed. It looks very bad. Thankfully, no one was hurt.
In Washington now, the "hurricane killer," Evan Smyth pleads guilty to going on a killing spree as Hurricane Isabel hit the Washington area back in September. Police say Smyth, a plumber with no criminal record, killed four people and they still don't know what set him off.
Bakersfield, California now, free at age 60, a judge throws out the conviction of John Stohl (ph) who spent 20 years in prison on child molestation charges. Stohl's accusers, now adults, testified that the abuse never happened and that investigators led them into making up all the stories.
Denver, Colorado now, no Reagan U. Nancy Reagan says no to the idea of a Ronald Reagan University in Colorado. Organizers wanted to name a proposed 10,000 student university after the former president. Mrs. Reagan says supporters should instead focus on the education program at the Reagan Presidential Library in California. That's a quick look at stories "Cross Country" for you tonight.
The King of Pop didn't pop onto any cars today. Michael Jackson showed up in court to plead not guilty. New charges were added, however. We're going to get to the details of that coming up.
Plus, a former NBA star is declared not guilty of the most serious charges against him, still a chance Jayson Williams might be sent to prison. We'll look at those odds.
Also, preschoolers on Prozac. It's happening more and more leaving some to say doctors are overmedicating our kids. We'll take a closer look at that.
And, as I mentioned before, Ted Koppel joins me for a very special half hour program later tonight, his decision to read the names of Americans who have died in Iraq. It's ignited a firestorm of controversy. We'll look at all sides in just a few moments.
First, let's take a look at your picks of the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there was no dancing, no jumping up on cars, even Michael Jackson's wardrobe seemed kind of restrained. The singer showed up in court today. He had a new lawyer, new security, and new charges against him.
CNN National Correspondent Frank Buckley report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Jackson's arrival at the courthouse again, like a Hollywood premier, and this time Jackson spoke to journalists.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.
BUCKLEY: Inside, though, Jackson appeared perturbed by the presence of a pool camera. There were no cameras in the courtroom as Judge Rodney Melville announced a ten-count indictment against the singer.
The charges four counts of alleged lewd acts upon a child; one attempted lewd act; four counts of administering an intoxicating agent, alcohol; and conspiracy with others to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion, new allegations that go beyond the prior accusations of child molestation.
CHRIS DRADEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Probably relate to what the prosecution would describe as a defense attempt or an attempt by Michael Jackson and others to secrete this child, conceal his whereabouts or somehow prevent him, physically prevent him from reporting these allegations to authorities. BUCKLEY: Jackson's new attorney, Thomas Mesereau, entered a plea of not guilty on all charges on Jackson's behalf, the pop star nodding yes when asked if that was correct.
THOMAS MESEREAU, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: It's about the integrity, the decency, the honor, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful human being named Michael Jackson.
BUCKLEY: When it was over, Jackson didn't climb atop an SUV this time, instead thanking the community of Santa Maria from which a jury will eventually be selected.
JACKSON: It's my community. I love the people. I will always love the people. My children were born in this community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: Michael Jackson also today issued a written statement saying he is, his words, "completely innocent of these false charges." Michael Jackson also believes he will be fully exonerated by a jury -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Frank Buckley thanks.
Another high profile case this one with a verdict. Former NBA star Jayson Williams acquitted today of some charges, convicted of others in the fatal shooting of a limo driver.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is covering the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams walked out of court met by cheering supporters. The former basketball star found not guilty on three of the four shooting charges, his lawyers calling the verdict fair.
BILLY MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jayson and Tanya are very happy. The entire trial team are very pleased and we're glad that they are going home.
FEYERICK: Williams was found guilty on all four cover-up charges, including evidence and witness tampering but on the charge of reckless manslaughter...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No decision was reached.
FEYERICK: The jury was split, 8-4 in favor of acquittal, juror Shalisha Heart.
SHALISHA HEART, JUROR: The four believed that he was playing around with Gus and that he was playing around with him, picked the gun up and actually pulled the trigger whereas we felt as though it was an accident. He was posing the gun as opposed to pointing it or aiming it.
FEYERICK: The judge declared a mistrial on the reckless manslaughter charge. Prosecutors now figuring out whether to try Williams again.
STEVEN LEMBER, PROSECUTOR: We are pleased that the jury did return a verdict of guilty on counts 5 through 8. We're, of course, disappointed that the jury was unable to return a verdict of guilty on counts 1, 3 and 4 and count 2 is still out there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Defense lawyers will be back in court three weeks from today. That's when prosecutors will announce what they've decided about the reckless manslaughter charge. A sentencing date will be set until then.
Meantime, Williams' prison term now ranging from probation to 13 years but one federal prosecutor says he would be stunned if Williams serves even a year because the shooting was not found to be a crime -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Deborah Feyerick in Somerville, thanks Deborah.
Surrender deadline tops our look at global stories right now in the "Up Link." Let's take a look.
In Pakistan, the deadline for militants near the Afghan border to give up has passed. No real surprise no one has surrendered. Pakistan's Army which had promised a hunt for al Qaeda militants and their allies has threatened military action if fighters didn't surrender by today. We'll see.
Jakarta, Indonesia now, protesters fight with police. Violence began right after the re-arrest of a Muslim cleric accused of leading a terror network that carried out a string of bombings, including the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 202 people.
The United Nations now, mission to Haiti, troops, police and political and human rights experts are going to head to Haiti on a U.N. mission to help stabilize the country. The mission starts in June and will run for at least six months.
Ireland now, celebration, fireworks in Dublin begins celebrations marking the expansion of the European Union. Ten countries, including eight former communist nations of central and Eastern Europe, have now joined the block. Leaders from all 25 nations will gather in Dublin for a formal ceremony and that's tonight's "Up Link" for you.
Naming the war dead, is it honoring the fallen or playing politics? Ted Koppel joins me coming up for a special half hour look at the broadcast and the controversy. That's coming up in just a few minutes.
Also tonight, preschoolers on Prozac, are doctors crossing the line, part of our weeklong series "Pill-popping Nation." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, depressing statistics indeed.
Every week a million prescriptions are written for antidepressants, such as Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft and they're not just for adults. Kids, many of them under 11, are now taking antidepressants. In fact, the CDC says that preschoolers are the fastest-growing group of kids getting medicated despite possible risk.
Tonight as we wrap up our weeklong series "Pill-popping Nation" we look at the controversy and ask are we over medicating our kids? We begin with one girl's struggle and how medication is helping her.
CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Carolyn (ph) See was younger she dealt with severe anxiety. Daily acts, such as putting on a jacket were stress-ridden choices usually ending in tears.
JOANNA SEE, DAUGHTER TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS: You hear about the terrible twos and this was, you know, she was five and still doing this and approaching six and it just seemed to be getting worse and worse.
GUPTA: Now, Caroline is ten and has been taking antidepressants for anxiety and attention disorder for the past four years.
CAROLYN SEE: I can concentrate better on my work.
GUPTA: And she's not alone. Carolyn is part of a quickly growing population, young children who are being treated with antidepressants, alarming, absolutely, necessary, perhaps.
While medication is given to less than one-half of one percent of all children, there have been rapid increases in a short time. According to a recent study, antidepressant use increased about ten percent a year between 1998 and 2002 among preschoolers.
DR. JORGE ADMENTEROS, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: These drugs have been given to hundreds of thousands of children in the last, you know, 14 years or so and the record of side effects is actually very decent.
GUPTA: But there are still many unknowns, tolerance build-up, effects on a developing brain.
ADMENTEROS: We have to be candid and honest and say there are certain things that we do not know.
GUPTA: But for a parent when do the short-term benefits outweigh the unknown risk? J. SEE: As a parent, if your child is miserable you become desperate and certainly I used to be one of those people that said I would never put my child on any type of a Ritalin or a medication.
GUPTA: For Carolyn, behavioral therapy and alternative treatments didn't work. Only medications provided the answer.
PHILLIP SEE, DAUGHTER TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS: We know it's a chemical thing. Whether it's your brain or your pancreas or another part of your body, it's a chemical process in the body and, you know, certainly we cross our fingers that there aren't going to be long-term negatives.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well there's certainly a lot of desperate parents out there. The Food and Drug Administration has begun a series of public hearings to determine if antidepressants are safe for the more than one million Americans under 18 who now take them.
Joining me from San Francisco, California, Dr. Lawrence Diller, a behavioral development pediatrician and author of the book "Should I Medicate my Child?" Dr. Diller, thanks for joining us.
You've been pretty outspoken against giving these antidepressants and other medications to kids, why? I mean there are a lot of desperate parents out there.
DR. LAWRENCE DILLER, BEHAVIORAL DEVELOPMENTAL PEDIATRICIAN: Well, no, I think that misrepresents me. I think what I'm outspoken about is the willy-nilly prescription of these medications. I prescribe Ritalin practically every day. I think there's less of a case to be made for these antidepressants in children.
This child, you know, apparently did try to go through some behavioral programs. The ones that I run 60 or 70 percent of the kids get better without medication and I think most parents would prefer to do without medication. The trouble with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there's no proof at least in treating depression that these things work. With anxiety there's some evidence that it can be helpful.
COOPER: So, if a parent comes to you and says, look, my preschooler, you know, seems to have a lot of anxiety. What is your response?
DILLER: Well, I would work with the child and the parents and when we develop a systematic desensitization plan where we, you know, expose the child little by little and, again, 60 to 70 percent of the children improve and they don't need medicine. There's a small group that maybe could use medicine but in most of the situations the kids are just given the pills right away.
COOPER: So, again, I don't want to put words in your mouth but if you think people are being, kids are being over medicated where does the fault lie? Is it nervous parents? Is it, you know, overworked doctors?
DILLER: I think it involves a system that, you know, rewards doctors for medicating rather than talking to kids and to their families. I think it involves a, you know, a pharmaceutical industry that has really tightly controlled what we hear about research and the advertising that goes to parents and to children these days on television.
COOPER: So, parents out there who are concerned about their child you're saying in addition to seeking a doctor's help they should look at as many alternatives as possible before going to medication?
DILLER: Well, I think many of them think they have. A lot of the therapies, for example, involve playing with the children. In this case, simply playing with the children isn't going to do much good.
But, you know, the bigger issue here right now is not so much for anxiety. It's for depression in children and that's what these FDA hearings have been about. Can we talk about that a little bit?
COOPER: Well, we're actually running out of time but we'd like to have you back on to talk about that more later on, is that all right?
DILLER: Well, OK. Thank you very much then for having me.
COOPER: All right, Dr. Diller, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
DILLER: OK, bye bye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Coming up a 360 special event, a full half hour, Ted Koppel joins me to discuss families of the fallen and his controversial "Nightline" special, 360 continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Let's take a look at our top stories tonight in the "Reset."
Baghdad, torture outrage, disturbing photos apparently showing U.S. troops abusing and humiliating Iraqi detainees at a prison near Baghdad. Six U.S. soldiers, some smiling in the pictures, charged in connection. President Bush expresses his deep disgust over the whole thing.
In London, British soldiers face similar accusations. Photos allegedly showing several troops abusing Iraqi detainees will be in newspapers tomorrow. A British Army commander says he is unaware of the allegations. At the White House, the president standing by his speech declaring an end to major combat in Iraq. Tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of the president's triumphant decree aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. More than 600 troops have died since. The president today insists progress is still being made.
Fulton, Missouri. John Kerry attacks the president for his handling of Iraq, calling it "a moment of truth." Kerry says it's time for a new direction in Iraq. And that's a look at "The Reset."
In a moment, I'll talk with Ted Koppel about his decision to read the names of the more than 700 U.S. service members killed in Iraq. The executive producer of tonight's "Nightline" says it may not be great television, but it's the right thing to do. Not everyone agrees, of course. One group of ABC affiliates isn't even airing the broadcast at all. CNN's Marina Hinojosa brings us up to speed now on the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Killed in Iraq in February, Army Lieutenant Seth Dvorin's death made the local news. Still, his mother says hearing his name on "Nightline" is important for her and the country.
SUE NIEDERER, SON DIED IN IRAQ: This is facing of a reality. These are the people who have been killed for this war. You are now taking the blinders off of people and reading names.
HINOJOSA: But "Nightline's" decision is sparking criticism. Sinclair Broadcast, whose CEO donated thousands of dollars to the Bush reelection campaign, ordered its seven ABC affiliates not to air the program, saying, "despite the denials of a spokeswoman for 'Nightline,' the action appeared to be motivated by a political agenda, designed to undermine the efforts of the United States in Iraq."
There hasn't been any organized protest by military families, but on conservative talk radio...
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO COMMENTATOR: Is the motivation to honor the men and women who died, or is the motivation to sway Americans against the war in Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely to sway Americans against the war.
HINOJOSA: Ted Koppel denies that.
TED KOPPEL, "NIGHTLINE": It is not unreasonable to remind everyone of who these young people are, or what they look like.
HINOJOSA: People protested the decision not to air "Nightline" at an Ohio station. And Vietnam veteran Senator John McCain criticized Sinclair saying, "your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heart-breaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."
(on camera): Even if "Nightline" didn't intend it, the program now has become political. A Democratic senator is asking the FCC to investigate whether Sinclair's decision not to air "Nightline" is, quote, "political censorship at the national level."
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, earlier today I spoke with Ted Koppel about tonight's program, why he's doing it and what the critics are saying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ted, why have you decided to do this broadcast now?
KOPPEL: There's nothing magic about the now, Anderson. If anything, when my executive producer first raised the issue with me, it was based on a remembrance he had of a "Life" magazine back in June of 1969, where they did two pages of the faces of young men who had died over the course of a week in Vietnam. It had an enormous impact when it ran back in '69, and he said, "why don't we do the same thing for Iraq today. And maybe we can do it for all the young men and women who have died."
Initially, we talked about doing it on Memorial Day, and then decided precisely because it was Memorial Day, it would get lost in all the background music of a national holiday. You know, between the Indianapolis 500 and the keg parties and the picnics, and it would have more impact if we did it on another day. So here it is.
COOPER: Some of your critics have pointed to the fact that this 1969 "Life" magazine article was sort of the genesis of this idea. They see that -- they look back and see that article as sort of contributing to the anti-war movement. They see that as perhaps an implication that this is an anti-war statement.
KOPPEL: Well, it's not. And if people have a little more of a sense of history, they'll realize that the anti-war movement was well under way by 1967. Really got into its full roar in 1968, after the Tet offensive in February of that year. And was prompted more, I would argue, by the fact that 300, 400, 500 men a week were dying in late '67 and during '68. By the time "Life" magazine did this in June of '69, believe me, the anti-war movement, you know, was a full, flourishing thing.
COOPER: Were you surprised by the response that you've received so far from critics and supporters alike? I mean, did you think you would get this kind of response?
KOPPEL: I thought that there would be -- I thought that there would be controversy, Anderson. I didn't think it would be -- I didn't think it would be this intense. COOPER: What did you think you were going to get?
KOPPEL: Oh, I thought we'd have people who would question our motives. They always do. But, I mean, the fact that the Sinclair Broadcasting Group, for example, would charge me with being unpatriotic, would say I was doing this to undermine the war effort I think is beneath contempt, quite frankly.
COOPER: Let me quote you two things that they have said in their statement. One, "Mr. Koppel and 'Nightline' are hiding behind the so- called tribute in an effort to highlight only one aspect of the war effort, and in doing so to influence public opinion against the military action in Iraq."
KOPPEL: Yeah. If this were the only thing that "Nightline" had been doing on Iraq or the only thing that "Nightline" was doing in Iraq, that might have some merit to it. I think of all the programs on network television, "Nightline" probably has done more on Iraq over the last 18 months than any other program out there. To suggest that this program exists in a vacuum by itself is just to ignore reality.
COOPER: The other thing that Sinclair brings up, they say, quote, "before you judge our decision, however, we would ask you first question Mr. Koppel as to why he chose to read the names of the 523 troops killed in combat in Iraq rather than the names of the thousands of private citizens killed in terrorist attacks since and including the events of September 11, 2001." I don't quite get the analogy, but I put it to you.
KOPPEL: I don't either. And it ignores the fact that we have done any number of programs in tribute to the people who have died on 9/11. And ABC News as a whole has done live coverage of the reading of the names of the people who died on 9/11. I'm not quite sure what he's saying. But if he really wants a realistic answer, you know, the program is half an hour long. And frankly, reading the 726 names, you do the arithmetic. Two seconds to a name, and you've already got the length of the program.
COOPER: Lisa Demores (ph), the TV columnist of "The Washington Post," I was actually most surprised by what she wrote. She basically said that, she said, "It is cheap, content-free stunt designed to tug at our heartstrings and bag a big number on the second night of the May ratings race."
KOPPEL: Yeah. Well, as, you know, I -- I have to confess that when it comes to thinking of all the things we could have done to bag a huge rating on the second night of sweeps, A, I have to admit, I'm not proud of this, that I didn't realize the May sweeps began in April. So I didn't even know...
COOPER: Is that really true, you didn't realize that?
KOPPEL: I didn't realize that. And secondly, I must tell you that the only conversation it was -- my executive producer and I had was our perception that most people would probably tune in to this program for a couple of minutes or three or five, and then realize that it's essentially all the same. Only the faces and the names are changing. And that if anything, we were going to lose audience tonight. And we said, you know something, we don't give a damn. Let's do it anyway. But the suggestion that we did this because we thought we could artificially, you know, hype our ratings, it's pretty contemptible.
COOPER: Because I got to tell you, if you did think that, there was a Michael Jackson hearing today, and you've got to get some better people advising you on what to -- on how to boost ratings.
KOPPEL: I was going to say, you and I were kidding about it beforehand. We could have done Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant, Laci Peterson, anyone of them would do more to boost the ratings. But I'm afraid that's not "Nightline," as our viewers know.
COOPER: Let me ask you, how much of your decision was -- to do this was based on your own experience as being embedded during the war?
KOPPEL: I wouldn't -- I wouldn't focus it on that, Anderson. I've, over the course of the past 41 years, I've covered about 11 wars, or 12 wars, beginning in 1967 in Vietnam. And if there's one thing I've come to feel very strongly is that we have a responsibility in our business to keep reminding people of the cost of war. You may recall when I was embedded, Charlie Gibson and I got engaged in a friendly debate on "Good Morning America" one day on whether or not to show the pictures of wounded and dead. And while I agree that you don't show their faces, you don't, in other words, inform them on live -- you don't inform the families on live television that their loved ones have been injured or killed, nevertheless I feel it's very important that we do show the consequences of war. And not to do that is to airbrush it to such a degree that people may get too fond of war.
COOPER: What did you personally learn from reading the names, from looking at the pictures, looking at the faces?
KOPPEL: Again, it's almost like one of those World War II movies where -- what was the guy who was in "The Life of Riley" -- do you remember the famous actor, William?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Bendix.
KOPPEL: William Bendix, thank you, guys.
COOPER: It's a little bit before my time, sorry.
KOPPEL: Yeah, I guess so. But you know, I mean, they even show the old movies now. But you know, William Bendix would be up there, he would be, you know, some Navy (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and he'd be reading the names of all the guys, and it would be Kovalsky (ph) and Schultz (ph) and Robertson (ph) and Jefferson (ph) and Levy (ph), and it would just -- and that's -- as you see these faces go by tonight, and as you hear the names go by, you are reminded above all other things of the extraordinary diversity of this country.
COOPER: And to the family members who have lost loved ones, who will be watching tonight, you say?
KOPPEL: I say, we have done everything we possibly can to do this with dignity. We have gone to great lengths to try to get the right pronunciations. I realize nothing could be more off-putting to the families than for me to mispronounce their loved one's name. Inevitably I'm going to do it anyway. Some of them we haven't been able to reach, all 726 people. But we've made every effort that we can. And we're making every -- and it doesn't -- it doesn't matter as much to me what everybody else believes, but I really do hope and pray that the families of those 726 believe that there was no ulterior motive here. We just want to pay tribute to your young men and women.
COOPER: Ted Koppel, thanks very much.
COOPER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, a lot of families will watch tonight's "Nightline," listening intently for the name of their lost loved ones. In a few moments, we'll talk to a mother of a serviceman killed in action. We'll also talk with some media critics to get their take.
We should point out, we contacted Sinclair Broadcasting Group to get its side of the story. However, they did not return our telephone calls.
Tonight, how should the fallen be remembered, and how should the media play a part. All that is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Those are the stations that will not be broadcasting "Nightline" tonight. From photographs to flag-draped coffins to the reading of names of killed Americans, the debate over how we choose to show respect for those who died in Iraq rages on. Each image, each name tells a very personal story. But how those stories are told is often fodder for raw politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): First, a simple series of photographs sparked thousands of words. From parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that my son was treated good. You know, he wasn't just thrown into a body bag and thrown onto a plane.
COOPER: And politicians.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I find it somewhat difficult to believe that people were fired for actually showing photographs of the truth.
BOB WALKER, (R) FRM. CONGRESSMAN: The president said that where they should be honored is during their funerals where the individual can be focused on rather than the groups who have made the sacrifice can be shown.
COOPER: Now "Nightline's" plan to read the names of the men and women who died in Iraq, and Sinclair Broadcasting's decision not to allow its stations to carry tonight's program, is fueling the debate.
In a letter to Sinclair, Senator John McCain said, "your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heart breaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."
Will tonight's reading of the names affect public opinion? The most recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll showed that fewer Americans approve of the way President Bush is handling the war in Iraq then did just a month ago. But the same poll showed, they don't think John Kerry would fare any better.
The question for politicians is, how Americans react to seeing not just numbers, but coffins and faces and names of the young men and women who are dying may just depend on where they stand in terms of raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the Sinclair Broadcast Corp is ordering its ABC affiliates, as we said, not to show the program tonight. But in one community that's being blacked out, viewers will get to see the program on a nearby Fox station, WHNS in Greenville, South Carolina will carry the program, only adding to the debate on whether reading the names pays tribute or exploits them.
Joining us from Washington, Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" and media reporter for the "Washington Post." Also with us Richard Noyes, director of research at the Media Research Center. Appreciate both of you being on the program.
Richard, let me start out with you. Apparently viewers have been calling these stations not airing the broadcast in protest. Did Sinclair overreact?
RICHARD NOYES, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: I don't know if they overreacted. They were given a choice by ABC, which was either run Ted Koppel's program the way Ted Koppel wants to put it together or don't run anything at all. I think, if timing permitted, it would have been very nice to put together a more balanced program, one that does more than just...
COOPER: So you think there's a political agenda here?
NOYES: Oh, I think it's pretty obvious that Ted Koppel has a political agenda. You know, he chose May 1 to do this. He chose the anniversary of the president making the declaration that combat was over. Liberals have been trying for the last year to make Bush eat his words. This is Ted Koppel, I think, lending a bit to that argument. I think it's a perfectly wonderful thing to remember those who died, if he picked a politically neutral day like Memorial Day or March 20, the anniversary of the wars beginning, there wouldn't be this fuss. But instead, he tried to do it on a politically sensitive day, one that sort of gives a little fuel to liberal critics of the president. And probably does more to clutter, if it was intended as a tribute, does more to clutter it up, than to really actually give tribute to those who served.
COOPER: Howard Kurtz, other critics say these deaths should be put more in context. Perhaps the names victims of 9/11 should be read out as well?
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, CNN'S RELIABLE SOURCES: Well, the names of those victims were read on the first anniversary, and all the networks covered that. Look, I just think to say that "Nightline" has some kind of political agenda here for the mere reading of the names without comment and without elaboration, it just doesn't pass the smell test.
Did anybody say that Koppel had a political agenda when he was risking his life in the desert covering the war with U.S. forces one year ago? Does anybody said that "USA Today" on the front page today, has pictures of the same thing, listing of those who have fallen all the names. Is that a political agenda?
Does anybody think there's a political agenda by the Fox station which wants to air the program. Unfortunately, the political agenda seems to be on the part of the Sinclair Broadcast Group whose top executives have contributed about $14,000 to the Republican National Committee. And apparently sent reporters to Iraq to report positive stories. Well, we should report positive stories, but we shouldn't ignore the cost of war as well.
COOPER: Richard, is the public so easily swayed that by seeing the pictures and faces of those who died, that would somehow turn them against the war?
NOYES: Well, everything is put in context. If all people are force-fed is stories of death, stories of despair and not given the positive stories, they're going to get a one-sided...
COOPER: Do you feel that's was "Nightline" has been doing?
NOYES: No, "Nightline" has been covering all sides of this. They have probably leaned more heavily towards things that fuel the war's opponents. But no, they have covered both sides over the course of the year.
But it has been hard to get positive stories on the network. Bob Arnot, who is a great reporter for MSNBC and NBC, you know, was trying to -- for a long time to get stories on NBC nightly news and NBC kept cutting those stories. And he finally left in frustration.
It has been something of a chore to get people to recognize that when schools open, when good things happen in Iraq, that's news in this context. And instead, all you get is the drum beat of destructive news.
KURTZ: The media's coverage of the war has been far from perfect. But even the White House has dropped the argument that things are going really well there If only the media would stop focusing on the negative. About two months ago that became untenable in light of the continuing problems there. And I'm glad to hear Richard say that "Nightline" has been fair in covering all sides. It's hard for me to understand, except for those who have a political agenda, why this, reciting the names in what Koppel describes as attribute is seen as an anti-war attack.
COOPER: Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Howard Kurtz, always good to talk to you. Richard Noyes, as well. Thank you very much for being on the program.
NOYES: Thanks.
COOPER: We'll be right back with more. Take a look at "The Buzz."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Made a lot of calls today for military family reaction to the "Nightline" special, and we could not find any in favor of Sinclair's order to its ABC affiliates not to air the program. We're not saying that there aren't any, we just couldn't find them. We did find those grateful for the tribute, like the family of Army 2nd Lieutenant Seth Dvorin, who was 24 years old when a roadside bomb claimed his life in Iraq in February.
Joining us here, Seth Dvorin's mother, Sue Niederer, and from Washington, Rick Weidman, the director of government relations for the Vietnam Veterans of America program. Thanks very much for being with us, both of you.
Sue, let me start off with you. You support Ted Koppel's naming the names tonight. Why?
NIEDERER: I feel it's extremely important that the American people put a face and a name to the dead. When you just listen to a number, you don't think about what might be behind that, that there's a family. There's actually a person that has lost their lives to this country for a war that we are in that we really should not be in.
COOPER: Rick, why do you think there's so much controversy about this?
RICK WEIDMAN, VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICA: Well, some people have raised the fact of other coverage of NBC -- of ABC, I'm sorry, that they felt wasn't fair. I asked actually one person, why do you consider ABC doing this tribute to these fallen American citizens, and to their extraordinary sacrifice, wrong? And they said, because of everything they did. And so I asked the question back, would you consider it political if Fox did it? And they said no. And I said, what's the difference? Because of their stance and other coverage. COOPER: I actually should point out, I actually looked -- Fox, on their Web site, actually does this. They have a listing of all the names, as well as photographs of that.
WEIDMAN: I think that's great. War costs, people have heard -- you've heard of the gift that keeps on giving. Well, war is a cost that keeps on costing. And it is the duty of every American citizen to honor those who are serving our country in the military today. And if they pay the ultimate sacrifice, to honor those dead. It's very upsetting to Vietnam Veterans of America, and continues to be a sore point with us, that we're not doing repatriation ceremonies when remains are returned to U.S. soil from OIF or OEF.
Recently, our national president, Tom Corey, escorted home remains from Vietnam, and to be met in Los Angeles with a full repatriation ceremony for those remains that were finally returned to their families from Vietnam. It should be no different for the young people serving today.
COOPER: Sue, does it help you, as a mother, to hear the name of your son being read out tonight?
NIEDERER: Absolutely. I think that they are paying a great tribute to my son, and the others, for the patriotism that they are and have been in this war for, and have lost their lives for. This is making them out to be who they really are. They are people who have lost their lives for this country, fighting for this country.
COOPER: Do you find that people, you know, they follow the news, but they don't really realize the cost of war? Whether they supported or not?
NIEDERER: That's correct. When you just hear numbers, numbers don't mean anything to people. But when you actually are faced with a name, or it hits home, it hits in your vicinity where you live, and you may have known that person. That's when you really start thinking. The blinders come off, reality has now set in to you, and you find that I have to think about this now. I have to think about the losses and what the losses have created.
COOPER: Well, Sue Niederer, we appreciate you joining us. I know it's really difficult to talk about this subject. But we appreciate it. Thank you.
NIEDERER: It's my pleasure. And thank you for allowing us, and hopefully everything will come off with Ted Koppel and all the names will be read as the tribute.
COOPER: And Rick Weidman as well, from Washington. Thanks very much, Rick. We'll be right back.
WEIDMAN: Thank you, ABC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Taking remembering to "The Nth Degree." What do you see in this picture? A horse? A man? It's a Rorschach test. In the inkblot, no one person sees the same thing. As Janet Weaver of the Poynter Institute said, when Ted Koppel reads the names and shows the faces of those killed in Iraq later tonight, it will be another kind of Rorschach test. Some will see and hear a strong statement against the war. Others, a salute to the sacrifice of those who've lost their lives.
There is no doubt names have power. You see it in the faces of those visiting Washington's Vietnam Memorial, who hear it on September 11 when the roll call of victims is read out by their friends and families. Tonight, more names, more faces. Does reading them on TV make it political? It probably depends on where you stand and how you look at the inkblot.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 30, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Anderson Cooper.
Could still photographs change the course of a war in Iraq? 360 starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Shocking pictures the world wasn't meant to see. Will apparent torture of Iraqis by U.S. troops lead to more bloodshed on the battlefield?
Michael Jackson's day in court, a new lawyer and surprising new allegations against the one-time King of Pop.
Former NBA star Jayson Williams acquitted of aggravated manslaughter but convicted of trying to cover up a killing.
Preschoolers on Prozac, why are so many American parents pumping their children full of pills?
And they paid the ultimate price in the name of freedom. Tonight, Ted Koppel joins me to discuss his controversial "Nightline" special reading the names of U.S. service members killed in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
Good evening. We begin tonight with torture outrage. Arab TV networks plastering photos all over the airwaves today of U.S. troops apparently abusing Iraqi prisoners. We blurred out the images but we warn you some of them are disturbing.
The pictures show prisoners in humiliating positions, naked, degraded. In some, U.S. military police pose beside them. It is safe to say the last thing the U.S. mission in Iraq needs right now.
CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pentagon officials said the photos could hardly come at a worse time. From the president on down American officials are angry and apologetic.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.
ENSOR: The humiliation of the prisoners in the photos was especially embarrassing for a president who has repeatedly expressed pride in having closed Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and rape rooms.
BUSH: There will be an investigation and I think they'll be taken care of.
ENSOR: At the Pentagon, one senior official spoke of the danger the photos could incite Iraqis against American soldiers generally saying: "I don't want to suggest that this could cost American lives, but it certainly is hideous."
RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I'm very sorry this happened to these people and we'll do everything in our power to make sure it doesn't happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: And these may not be the only cases of abuse. U.S. intelligence officials confirm that the CIA inspector general is cooperating with Defense Department officials looking into some other alleged cases of abuse, including one where a prison died in Abu Ghurayb Prison. Said a CIA spokesman: "We do not support or condone the abuse of prisoners" -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, David Ensor thanks very much.
Iraq does not publish newspapers on Friday, the Muslim holy day, so today only those Iraqis with satellite TV actually saw those photos. The reaction in Baghdad was not good.
Here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis watch disturbing images of abuse and humiliation on the Arabiya Satellite News Network vividly depicting degradation of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers in Abu Ghurayb Prison outside Baghdad these images sending waves of revulsion through a conservative religious society that places a premium on dignity and modesty.
Abu Ghurayb Prison, once a notorious symbol of Saddam Hussein's repression now under American control few Iraqis likely to miss the irony that these acts were allegedly committed by soldiers of the very country that styles itself as a champion of human rights.
"It's wrong, wrong, 100 percent and a crime" says Halil (ph). "You came to liberate us from an unjust dictator who killed and tortured us."
WEDEMAN: Coalition officials aren't mincing their words when it comes to these images the authenticity of which have not been independently verified.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: Those soldiers let us down. They simply let use down.
WEDEMAN: The U.S. military says six soldiers have been charged with abusing inmates. The military also is conducting a thorough review of how Abu Ghurayb Prison is run.
Rumors have swirled around Baghdad for months that abuse of Iraqi prisoners was rife in Abu Ghurayb and for many Iraqis confronted with these images those rumors have now been confirmed.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Here's a 360 news note about prisoners held in Iraq right now. The Pentagon says it is currently holding about 8,000 prisoners at its largest prison Abu Ghurayb. That is the prison where those photos were taken. We asked the Pentagon today if they had the total number of prisoners held in Iraq and they say they do not.
This latest controversy on Iraq comes on the one year anniversary of President Bush's mission accomplished speech aboard an aircraft carrier. One year later, an election year, and the president finds himself today on the defensive.
CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): May 1, 2003, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush declared major combat over in Iraq. One year and more than 600 American casualties later, he defended those remarks.
BUSH: I did give the speech from the carrier saying that we had achieved an important objective, that we had accomplished a mission which was the removal of Saddam Hussein.
MALVEAUX: But the banner behind the president "mission accomplished" signaled to some Americans and Bush critics a swift win in Iraq. As the June 30 deadline to transfer power to the Iraqi people nears, insurgencies in Fallujah and Najaf threaten to undermine stability in the country and this April proved to be the bloodiest month ever in Iraq with at least 126 Americans killed.
BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead.
MALVEAUX: For Mr. Bush's critics, though, his declarations that day have come to symbolize the administration's failures. Since Mr. Bush's speech his chief political strategist, Carl Rove, and other top advisers have acknowledged they regret the "mission accomplished" banner overhead but they say the president's message has been consistent that bringing democracy to Iraqi is tough work.
Mr. Bush's opponent, John Kerry, is using the carrier image in one of his campaign ads but at a speech at Westminster College he focused on the future.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This anniversary is not a time to shout. It's not a time for blame. It is a time for a new direction in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now this year's events, of course, are taking a toll on President Bush's approval rating. The latest poll, CNN-USA Gallup poll, showing that this time last year 76 percent of Americans believed the president was handling Iraq well. They approved of the way he was handling it. That is down now to 48 percent -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Suzanne at the White House, Suzanne Malveaux thanks.
Coming up on tonight's program, "Nightline's" Ted Koppel joins me for an in-depth look at his decision to read the names of Americans killed in the line of duty in Iraq. Was it the right choice? We'll give you all the angles. That's coming up later on tonight.
Let's take a quick look at other stories we're following right now "Cross Country."
In Los Angeles, California, truckers block at least four L.A. freeways protesting high fuel prices. One trucker says he is paying $1,400 a month just for fuel.
Minneapolis, Minnesota now, crash landing. Take a look at this. A military cargo plane has a rough landing at Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport after its landing gear failed. It looks very bad. Thankfully, no one was hurt.
In Washington now, the "hurricane killer," Evan Smyth pleads guilty to going on a killing spree as Hurricane Isabel hit the Washington area back in September. Police say Smyth, a plumber with no criminal record, killed four people and they still don't know what set him off.
Bakersfield, California now, free at age 60, a judge throws out the conviction of John Stohl (ph) who spent 20 years in prison on child molestation charges. Stohl's accusers, now adults, testified that the abuse never happened and that investigators led them into making up all the stories.
Denver, Colorado now, no Reagan U. Nancy Reagan says no to the idea of a Ronald Reagan University in Colorado. Organizers wanted to name a proposed 10,000 student university after the former president. Mrs. Reagan says supporters should instead focus on the education program at the Reagan Presidential Library in California. That's a quick look at stories "Cross Country" for you tonight.
The King of Pop didn't pop onto any cars today. Michael Jackson showed up in court to plead not guilty. New charges were added, however. We're going to get to the details of that coming up.
Plus, a former NBA star is declared not guilty of the most serious charges against him, still a chance Jayson Williams might be sent to prison. We'll look at those odds.
Also, preschoolers on Prozac. It's happening more and more leaving some to say doctors are overmedicating our kids. We'll take a closer look at that.
And, as I mentioned before, Ted Koppel joins me for a very special half hour program later tonight, his decision to read the names of Americans who have died in Iraq. It's ignited a firestorm of controversy. We'll look at all sides in just a few moments.
First, let's take a look at your picks of the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there was no dancing, no jumping up on cars, even Michael Jackson's wardrobe seemed kind of restrained. The singer showed up in court today. He had a new lawyer, new security, and new charges against him.
CNN National Correspondent Frank Buckley report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Jackson's arrival at the courthouse again, like a Hollywood premier, and this time Jackson spoke to journalists.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.
BUCKLEY: Inside, though, Jackson appeared perturbed by the presence of a pool camera. There were no cameras in the courtroom as Judge Rodney Melville announced a ten-count indictment against the singer.
The charges four counts of alleged lewd acts upon a child; one attempted lewd act; four counts of administering an intoxicating agent, alcohol; and conspiracy with others to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion, new allegations that go beyond the prior accusations of child molestation.
CHRIS DRADEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Probably relate to what the prosecution would describe as a defense attempt or an attempt by Michael Jackson and others to secrete this child, conceal his whereabouts or somehow prevent him, physically prevent him from reporting these allegations to authorities. BUCKLEY: Jackson's new attorney, Thomas Mesereau, entered a plea of not guilty on all charges on Jackson's behalf, the pop star nodding yes when asked if that was correct.
THOMAS MESEREAU, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: It's about the integrity, the decency, the honor, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful human being named Michael Jackson.
BUCKLEY: When it was over, Jackson didn't climb atop an SUV this time, instead thanking the community of Santa Maria from which a jury will eventually be selected.
JACKSON: It's my community. I love the people. I will always love the people. My children were born in this community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: Michael Jackson also today issued a written statement saying he is, his words, "completely innocent of these false charges." Michael Jackson also believes he will be fully exonerated by a jury -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Frank Buckley thanks.
Another high profile case this one with a verdict. Former NBA star Jayson Williams acquitted today of some charges, convicted of others in the fatal shooting of a limo driver.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is covering the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams walked out of court met by cheering supporters. The former basketball star found not guilty on three of the four shooting charges, his lawyers calling the verdict fair.
BILLY MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jayson and Tanya are very happy. The entire trial team are very pleased and we're glad that they are going home.
FEYERICK: Williams was found guilty on all four cover-up charges, including evidence and witness tampering but on the charge of reckless manslaughter...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No decision was reached.
FEYERICK: The jury was split, 8-4 in favor of acquittal, juror Shalisha Heart.
SHALISHA HEART, JUROR: The four believed that he was playing around with Gus and that he was playing around with him, picked the gun up and actually pulled the trigger whereas we felt as though it was an accident. He was posing the gun as opposed to pointing it or aiming it.
FEYERICK: The judge declared a mistrial on the reckless manslaughter charge. Prosecutors now figuring out whether to try Williams again.
STEVEN LEMBER, PROSECUTOR: We are pleased that the jury did return a verdict of guilty on counts 5 through 8. We're, of course, disappointed that the jury was unable to return a verdict of guilty on counts 1, 3 and 4 and count 2 is still out there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Defense lawyers will be back in court three weeks from today. That's when prosecutors will announce what they've decided about the reckless manslaughter charge. A sentencing date will be set until then.
Meantime, Williams' prison term now ranging from probation to 13 years but one federal prosecutor says he would be stunned if Williams serves even a year because the shooting was not found to be a crime -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Deborah Feyerick in Somerville, thanks Deborah.
Surrender deadline tops our look at global stories right now in the "Up Link." Let's take a look.
In Pakistan, the deadline for militants near the Afghan border to give up has passed. No real surprise no one has surrendered. Pakistan's Army which had promised a hunt for al Qaeda militants and their allies has threatened military action if fighters didn't surrender by today. We'll see.
Jakarta, Indonesia now, protesters fight with police. Violence began right after the re-arrest of a Muslim cleric accused of leading a terror network that carried out a string of bombings, including the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 202 people.
The United Nations now, mission to Haiti, troops, police and political and human rights experts are going to head to Haiti on a U.N. mission to help stabilize the country. The mission starts in June and will run for at least six months.
Ireland now, celebration, fireworks in Dublin begins celebrations marking the expansion of the European Union. Ten countries, including eight former communist nations of central and Eastern Europe, have now joined the block. Leaders from all 25 nations will gather in Dublin for a formal ceremony and that's tonight's "Up Link" for you.
Naming the war dead, is it honoring the fallen or playing politics? Ted Koppel joins me coming up for a special half hour look at the broadcast and the controversy. That's coming up in just a few minutes.
Also tonight, preschoolers on Prozac, are doctors crossing the line, part of our weeklong series "Pill-popping Nation." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, depressing statistics indeed.
Every week a million prescriptions are written for antidepressants, such as Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft and they're not just for adults. Kids, many of them under 11, are now taking antidepressants. In fact, the CDC says that preschoolers are the fastest-growing group of kids getting medicated despite possible risk.
Tonight as we wrap up our weeklong series "Pill-popping Nation" we look at the controversy and ask are we over medicating our kids? We begin with one girl's struggle and how medication is helping her.
CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Carolyn (ph) See was younger she dealt with severe anxiety. Daily acts, such as putting on a jacket were stress-ridden choices usually ending in tears.
JOANNA SEE, DAUGHTER TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS: You hear about the terrible twos and this was, you know, she was five and still doing this and approaching six and it just seemed to be getting worse and worse.
GUPTA: Now, Caroline is ten and has been taking antidepressants for anxiety and attention disorder for the past four years.
CAROLYN SEE: I can concentrate better on my work.
GUPTA: And she's not alone. Carolyn is part of a quickly growing population, young children who are being treated with antidepressants, alarming, absolutely, necessary, perhaps.
While medication is given to less than one-half of one percent of all children, there have been rapid increases in a short time. According to a recent study, antidepressant use increased about ten percent a year between 1998 and 2002 among preschoolers.
DR. JORGE ADMENTEROS, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: These drugs have been given to hundreds of thousands of children in the last, you know, 14 years or so and the record of side effects is actually very decent.
GUPTA: But there are still many unknowns, tolerance build-up, effects on a developing brain.
ADMENTEROS: We have to be candid and honest and say there are certain things that we do not know.
GUPTA: But for a parent when do the short-term benefits outweigh the unknown risk? J. SEE: As a parent, if your child is miserable you become desperate and certainly I used to be one of those people that said I would never put my child on any type of a Ritalin or a medication.
GUPTA: For Carolyn, behavioral therapy and alternative treatments didn't work. Only medications provided the answer.
PHILLIP SEE, DAUGHTER TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS: We know it's a chemical thing. Whether it's your brain or your pancreas or another part of your body, it's a chemical process in the body and, you know, certainly we cross our fingers that there aren't going to be long-term negatives.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well there's certainly a lot of desperate parents out there. The Food and Drug Administration has begun a series of public hearings to determine if antidepressants are safe for the more than one million Americans under 18 who now take them.
Joining me from San Francisco, California, Dr. Lawrence Diller, a behavioral development pediatrician and author of the book "Should I Medicate my Child?" Dr. Diller, thanks for joining us.
You've been pretty outspoken against giving these antidepressants and other medications to kids, why? I mean there are a lot of desperate parents out there.
DR. LAWRENCE DILLER, BEHAVIORAL DEVELOPMENTAL PEDIATRICIAN: Well, no, I think that misrepresents me. I think what I'm outspoken about is the willy-nilly prescription of these medications. I prescribe Ritalin practically every day. I think there's less of a case to be made for these antidepressants in children.
This child, you know, apparently did try to go through some behavioral programs. The ones that I run 60 or 70 percent of the kids get better without medication and I think most parents would prefer to do without medication. The trouble with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there's no proof at least in treating depression that these things work. With anxiety there's some evidence that it can be helpful.
COOPER: So, if a parent comes to you and says, look, my preschooler, you know, seems to have a lot of anxiety. What is your response?
DILLER: Well, I would work with the child and the parents and when we develop a systematic desensitization plan where we, you know, expose the child little by little and, again, 60 to 70 percent of the children improve and they don't need medicine. There's a small group that maybe could use medicine but in most of the situations the kids are just given the pills right away.
COOPER: So, again, I don't want to put words in your mouth but if you think people are being, kids are being over medicated where does the fault lie? Is it nervous parents? Is it, you know, overworked doctors?
DILLER: I think it involves a system that, you know, rewards doctors for medicating rather than talking to kids and to their families. I think it involves a, you know, a pharmaceutical industry that has really tightly controlled what we hear about research and the advertising that goes to parents and to children these days on television.
COOPER: So, parents out there who are concerned about their child you're saying in addition to seeking a doctor's help they should look at as many alternatives as possible before going to medication?
DILLER: Well, I think many of them think they have. A lot of the therapies, for example, involve playing with the children. In this case, simply playing with the children isn't going to do much good.
But, you know, the bigger issue here right now is not so much for anxiety. It's for depression in children and that's what these FDA hearings have been about. Can we talk about that a little bit?
COOPER: Well, we're actually running out of time but we'd like to have you back on to talk about that more later on, is that all right?
DILLER: Well, OK. Thank you very much then for having me.
COOPER: All right, Dr. Diller, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
DILLER: OK, bye bye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Coming up a 360 special event, a full half hour, Ted Koppel joins me to discuss families of the fallen and his controversial "Nightline" special, 360 continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Let's take a look at our top stories tonight in the "Reset."
Baghdad, torture outrage, disturbing photos apparently showing U.S. troops abusing and humiliating Iraqi detainees at a prison near Baghdad. Six U.S. soldiers, some smiling in the pictures, charged in connection. President Bush expresses his deep disgust over the whole thing.
In London, British soldiers face similar accusations. Photos allegedly showing several troops abusing Iraqi detainees will be in newspapers tomorrow. A British Army commander says he is unaware of the allegations. At the White House, the president standing by his speech declaring an end to major combat in Iraq. Tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of the president's triumphant decree aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. More than 600 troops have died since. The president today insists progress is still being made.
Fulton, Missouri. John Kerry attacks the president for his handling of Iraq, calling it "a moment of truth." Kerry says it's time for a new direction in Iraq. And that's a look at "The Reset."
In a moment, I'll talk with Ted Koppel about his decision to read the names of the more than 700 U.S. service members killed in Iraq. The executive producer of tonight's "Nightline" says it may not be great television, but it's the right thing to do. Not everyone agrees, of course. One group of ABC affiliates isn't even airing the broadcast at all. CNN's Marina Hinojosa brings us up to speed now on the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Killed in Iraq in February, Army Lieutenant Seth Dvorin's death made the local news. Still, his mother says hearing his name on "Nightline" is important for her and the country.
SUE NIEDERER, SON DIED IN IRAQ: This is facing of a reality. These are the people who have been killed for this war. You are now taking the blinders off of people and reading names.
HINOJOSA: But "Nightline's" decision is sparking criticism. Sinclair Broadcast, whose CEO donated thousands of dollars to the Bush reelection campaign, ordered its seven ABC affiliates not to air the program, saying, "despite the denials of a spokeswoman for 'Nightline,' the action appeared to be motivated by a political agenda, designed to undermine the efforts of the United States in Iraq."
There hasn't been any organized protest by military families, but on conservative talk radio...
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO COMMENTATOR: Is the motivation to honor the men and women who died, or is the motivation to sway Americans against the war in Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely to sway Americans against the war.
HINOJOSA: Ted Koppel denies that.
TED KOPPEL, "NIGHTLINE": It is not unreasonable to remind everyone of who these young people are, or what they look like.
HINOJOSA: People protested the decision not to air "Nightline" at an Ohio station. And Vietnam veteran Senator John McCain criticized Sinclair saying, "your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heart-breaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."
(on camera): Even if "Nightline" didn't intend it, the program now has become political. A Democratic senator is asking the FCC to investigate whether Sinclair's decision not to air "Nightline" is, quote, "political censorship at the national level."
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, earlier today I spoke with Ted Koppel about tonight's program, why he's doing it and what the critics are saying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ted, why have you decided to do this broadcast now?
KOPPEL: There's nothing magic about the now, Anderson. If anything, when my executive producer first raised the issue with me, it was based on a remembrance he had of a "Life" magazine back in June of 1969, where they did two pages of the faces of young men who had died over the course of a week in Vietnam. It had an enormous impact when it ran back in '69, and he said, "why don't we do the same thing for Iraq today. And maybe we can do it for all the young men and women who have died."
Initially, we talked about doing it on Memorial Day, and then decided precisely because it was Memorial Day, it would get lost in all the background music of a national holiday. You know, between the Indianapolis 500 and the keg parties and the picnics, and it would have more impact if we did it on another day. So here it is.
COOPER: Some of your critics have pointed to the fact that this 1969 "Life" magazine article was sort of the genesis of this idea. They see that -- they look back and see that article as sort of contributing to the anti-war movement. They see that as perhaps an implication that this is an anti-war statement.
KOPPEL: Well, it's not. And if people have a little more of a sense of history, they'll realize that the anti-war movement was well under way by 1967. Really got into its full roar in 1968, after the Tet offensive in February of that year. And was prompted more, I would argue, by the fact that 300, 400, 500 men a week were dying in late '67 and during '68. By the time "Life" magazine did this in June of '69, believe me, the anti-war movement, you know, was a full, flourishing thing.
COOPER: Were you surprised by the response that you've received so far from critics and supporters alike? I mean, did you think you would get this kind of response?
KOPPEL: I thought that there would be -- I thought that there would be controversy, Anderson. I didn't think it would be -- I didn't think it would be this intense. COOPER: What did you think you were going to get?
KOPPEL: Oh, I thought we'd have people who would question our motives. They always do. But, I mean, the fact that the Sinclair Broadcasting Group, for example, would charge me with being unpatriotic, would say I was doing this to undermine the war effort I think is beneath contempt, quite frankly.
COOPER: Let me quote you two things that they have said in their statement. One, "Mr. Koppel and 'Nightline' are hiding behind the so- called tribute in an effort to highlight only one aspect of the war effort, and in doing so to influence public opinion against the military action in Iraq."
KOPPEL: Yeah. If this were the only thing that "Nightline" had been doing on Iraq or the only thing that "Nightline" was doing in Iraq, that might have some merit to it. I think of all the programs on network television, "Nightline" probably has done more on Iraq over the last 18 months than any other program out there. To suggest that this program exists in a vacuum by itself is just to ignore reality.
COOPER: The other thing that Sinclair brings up, they say, quote, "before you judge our decision, however, we would ask you first question Mr. Koppel as to why he chose to read the names of the 523 troops killed in combat in Iraq rather than the names of the thousands of private citizens killed in terrorist attacks since and including the events of September 11, 2001." I don't quite get the analogy, but I put it to you.
KOPPEL: I don't either. And it ignores the fact that we have done any number of programs in tribute to the people who have died on 9/11. And ABC News as a whole has done live coverage of the reading of the names of the people who died on 9/11. I'm not quite sure what he's saying. But if he really wants a realistic answer, you know, the program is half an hour long. And frankly, reading the 726 names, you do the arithmetic. Two seconds to a name, and you've already got the length of the program.
COOPER: Lisa Demores (ph), the TV columnist of "The Washington Post," I was actually most surprised by what she wrote. She basically said that, she said, "It is cheap, content-free stunt designed to tug at our heartstrings and bag a big number on the second night of the May ratings race."
KOPPEL: Yeah. Well, as, you know, I -- I have to confess that when it comes to thinking of all the things we could have done to bag a huge rating on the second night of sweeps, A, I have to admit, I'm not proud of this, that I didn't realize the May sweeps began in April. So I didn't even know...
COOPER: Is that really true, you didn't realize that?
KOPPEL: I didn't realize that. And secondly, I must tell you that the only conversation it was -- my executive producer and I had was our perception that most people would probably tune in to this program for a couple of minutes or three or five, and then realize that it's essentially all the same. Only the faces and the names are changing. And that if anything, we were going to lose audience tonight. And we said, you know something, we don't give a damn. Let's do it anyway. But the suggestion that we did this because we thought we could artificially, you know, hype our ratings, it's pretty contemptible.
COOPER: Because I got to tell you, if you did think that, there was a Michael Jackson hearing today, and you've got to get some better people advising you on what to -- on how to boost ratings.
KOPPEL: I was going to say, you and I were kidding about it beforehand. We could have done Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant, Laci Peterson, anyone of them would do more to boost the ratings. But I'm afraid that's not "Nightline," as our viewers know.
COOPER: Let me ask you, how much of your decision was -- to do this was based on your own experience as being embedded during the war?
KOPPEL: I wouldn't -- I wouldn't focus it on that, Anderson. I've, over the course of the past 41 years, I've covered about 11 wars, or 12 wars, beginning in 1967 in Vietnam. And if there's one thing I've come to feel very strongly is that we have a responsibility in our business to keep reminding people of the cost of war. You may recall when I was embedded, Charlie Gibson and I got engaged in a friendly debate on "Good Morning America" one day on whether or not to show the pictures of wounded and dead. And while I agree that you don't show their faces, you don't, in other words, inform them on live -- you don't inform the families on live television that their loved ones have been injured or killed, nevertheless I feel it's very important that we do show the consequences of war. And not to do that is to airbrush it to such a degree that people may get too fond of war.
COOPER: What did you personally learn from reading the names, from looking at the pictures, looking at the faces?
KOPPEL: Again, it's almost like one of those World War II movies where -- what was the guy who was in "The Life of Riley" -- do you remember the famous actor, William?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Bendix.
KOPPEL: William Bendix, thank you, guys.
COOPER: It's a little bit before my time, sorry.
KOPPEL: Yeah, I guess so. But you know, I mean, they even show the old movies now. But you know, William Bendix would be up there, he would be, you know, some Navy (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and he'd be reading the names of all the guys, and it would be Kovalsky (ph) and Schultz (ph) and Robertson (ph) and Jefferson (ph) and Levy (ph), and it would just -- and that's -- as you see these faces go by tonight, and as you hear the names go by, you are reminded above all other things of the extraordinary diversity of this country.
COOPER: And to the family members who have lost loved ones, who will be watching tonight, you say?
KOPPEL: I say, we have done everything we possibly can to do this with dignity. We have gone to great lengths to try to get the right pronunciations. I realize nothing could be more off-putting to the families than for me to mispronounce their loved one's name. Inevitably I'm going to do it anyway. Some of them we haven't been able to reach, all 726 people. But we've made every effort that we can. And we're making every -- and it doesn't -- it doesn't matter as much to me what everybody else believes, but I really do hope and pray that the families of those 726 believe that there was no ulterior motive here. We just want to pay tribute to your young men and women.
COOPER: Ted Koppel, thanks very much.
COOPER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, a lot of families will watch tonight's "Nightline," listening intently for the name of their lost loved ones. In a few moments, we'll talk to a mother of a serviceman killed in action. We'll also talk with some media critics to get their take.
We should point out, we contacted Sinclair Broadcasting Group to get its side of the story. However, they did not return our telephone calls.
Tonight, how should the fallen be remembered, and how should the media play a part. All that is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Those are the stations that will not be broadcasting "Nightline" tonight. From photographs to flag-draped coffins to the reading of names of killed Americans, the debate over how we choose to show respect for those who died in Iraq rages on. Each image, each name tells a very personal story. But how those stories are told is often fodder for raw politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): First, a simple series of photographs sparked thousands of words. From parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that my son was treated good. You know, he wasn't just thrown into a body bag and thrown onto a plane.
COOPER: And politicians.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I find it somewhat difficult to believe that people were fired for actually showing photographs of the truth.
BOB WALKER, (R) FRM. CONGRESSMAN: The president said that where they should be honored is during their funerals where the individual can be focused on rather than the groups who have made the sacrifice can be shown.
COOPER: Now "Nightline's" plan to read the names of the men and women who died in Iraq, and Sinclair Broadcasting's decision not to allow its stations to carry tonight's program, is fueling the debate.
In a letter to Sinclair, Senator John McCain said, "your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heart breaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."
Will tonight's reading of the names affect public opinion? The most recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll showed that fewer Americans approve of the way President Bush is handling the war in Iraq then did just a month ago. But the same poll showed, they don't think John Kerry would fare any better.
The question for politicians is, how Americans react to seeing not just numbers, but coffins and faces and names of the young men and women who are dying may just depend on where they stand in terms of raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the Sinclair Broadcast Corp is ordering its ABC affiliates, as we said, not to show the program tonight. But in one community that's being blacked out, viewers will get to see the program on a nearby Fox station, WHNS in Greenville, South Carolina will carry the program, only adding to the debate on whether reading the names pays tribute or exploits them.
Joining us from Washington, Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" and media reporter for the "Washington Post." Also with us Richard Noyes, director of research at the Media Research Center. Appreciate both of you being on the program.
Richard, let me start out with you. Apparently viewers have been calling these stations not airing the broadcast in protest. Did Sinclair overreact?
RICHARD NOYES, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: I don't know if they overreacted. They were given a choice by ABC, which was either run Ted Koppel's program the way Ted Koppel wants to put it together or don't run anything at all. I think, if timing permitted, it would have been very nice to put together a more balanced program, one that does more than just...
COOPER: So you think there's a political agenda here?
NOYES: Oh, I think it's pretty obvious that Ted Koppel has a political agenda. You know, he chose May 1 to do this. He chose the anniversary of the president making the declaration that combat was over. Liberals have been trying for the last year to make Bush eat his words. This is Ted Koppel, I think, lending a bit to that argument. I think it's a perfectly wonderful thing to remember those who died, if he picked a politically neutral day like Memorial Day or March 20, the anniversary of the wars beginning, there wouldn't be this fuss. But instead, he tried to do it on a politically sensitive day, one that sort of gives a little fuel to liberal critics of the president. And probably does more to clutter, if it was intended as a tribute, does more to clutter it up, than to really actually give tribute to those who served.
COOPER: Howard Kurtz, other critics say these deaths should be put more in context. Perhaps the names victims of 9/11 should be read out as well?
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, CNN'S RELIABLE SOURCES: Well, the names of those victims were read on the first anniversary, and all the networks covered that. Look, I just think to say that "Nightline" has some kind of political agenda here for the mere reading of the names without comment and without elaboration, it just doesn't pass the smell test.
Did anybody say that Koppel had a political agenda when he was risking his life in the desert covering the war with U.S. forces one year ago? Does anybody said that "USA Today" on the front page today, has pictures of the same thing, listing of those who have fallen all the names. Is that a political agenda?
Does anybody think there's a political agenda by the Fox station which wants to air the program. Unfortunately, the political agenda seems to be on the part of the Sinclair Broadcast Group whose top executives have contributed about $14,000 to the Republican National Committee. And apparently sent reporters to Iraq to report positive stories. Well, we should report positive stories, but we shouldn't ignore the cost of war as well.
COOPER: Richard, is the public so easily swayed that by seeing the pictures and faces of those who died, that would somehow turn them against the war?
NOYES: Well, everything is put in context. If all people are force-fed is stories of death, stories of despair and not given the positive stories, they're going to get a one-sided...
COOPER: Do you feel that's was "Nightline" has been doing?
NOYES: No, "Nightline" has been covering all sides of this. They have probably leaned more heavily towards things that fuel the war's opponents. But no, they have covered both sides over the course of the year.
But it has been hard to get positive stories on the network. Bob Arnot, who is a great reporter for MSNBC and NBC, you know, was trying to -- for a long time to get stories on NBC nightly news and NBC kept cutting those stories. And he finally left in frustration.
It has been something of a chore to get people to recognize that when schools open, when good things happen in Iraq, that's news in this context. And instead, all you get is the drum beat of destructive news.
KURTZ: The media's coverage of the war has been far from perfect. But even the White House has dropped the argument that things are going really well there If only the media would stop focusing on the negative. About two months ago that became untenable in light of the continuing problems there. And I'm glad to hear Richard say that "Nightline" has been fair in covering all sides. It's hard for me to understand, except for those who have a political agenda, why this, reciting the names in what Koppel describes as attribute is seen as an anti-war attack.
COOPER: Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Howard Kurtz, always good to talk to you. Richard Noyes, as well. Thank you very much for being on the program.
NOYES: Thanks.
COOPER: We'll be right back with more. Take a look at "The Buzz."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Made a lot of calls today for military family reaction to the "Nightline" special, and we could not find any in favor of Sinclair's order to its ABC affiliates not to air the program. We're not saying that there aren't any, we just couldn't find them. We did find those grateful for the tribute, like the family of Army 2nd Lieutenant Seth Dvorin, who was 24 years old when a roadside bomb claimed his life in Iraq in February.
Joining us here, Seth Dvorin's mother, Sue Niederer, and from Washington, Rick Weidman, the director of government relations for the Vietnam Veterans of America program. Thanks very much for being with us, both of you.
Sue, let me start off with you. You support Ted Koppel's naming the names tonight. Why?
NIEDERER: I feel it's extremely important that the American people put a face and a name to the dead. When you just listen to a number, you don't think about what might be behind that, that there's a family. There's actually a person that has lost their lives to this country for a war that we are in that we really should not be in.
COOPER: Rick, why do you think there's so much controversy about this?
RICK WEIDMAN, VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICA: Well, some people have raised the fact of other coverage of NBC -- of ABC, I'm sorry, that they felt wasn't fair. I asked actually one person, why do you consider ABC doing this tribute to these fallen American citizens, and to their extraordinary sacrifice, wrong? And they said, because of everything they did. And so I asked the question back, would you consider it political if Fox did it? And they said no. And I said, what's the difference? Because of their stance and other coverage. COOPER: I actually should point out, I actually looked -- Fox, on their Web site, actually does this. They have a listing of all the names, as well as photographs of that.
WEIDMAN: I think that's great. War costs, people have heard -- you've heard of the gift that keeps on giving. Well, war is a cost that keeps on costing. And it is the duty of every American citizen to honor those who are serving our country in the military today. And if they pay the ultimate sacrifice, to honor those dead. It's very upsetting to Vietnam Veterans of America, and continues to be a sore point with us, that we're not doing repatriation ceremonies when remains are returned to U.S. soil from OIF or OEF.
Recently, our national president, Tom Corey, escorted home remains from Vietnam, and to be met in Los Angeles with a full repatriation ceremony for those remains that were finally returned to their families from Vietnam. It should be no different for the young people serving today.
COOPER: Sue, does it help you, as a mother, to hear the name of your son being read out tonight?
NIEDERER: Absolutely. I think that they are paying a great tribute to my son, and the others, for the patriotism that they are and have been in this war for, and have lost their lives for. This is making them out to be who they really are. They are people who have lost their lives for this country, fighting for this country.
COOPER: Do you find that people, you know, they follow the news, but they don't really realize the cost of war? Whether they supported or not?
NIEDERER: That's correct. When you just hear numbers, numbers don't mean anything to people. But when you actually are faced with a name, or it hits home, it hits in your vicinity where you live, and you may have known that person. That's when you really start thinking. The blinders come off, reality has now set in to you, and you find that I have to think about this now. I have to think about the losses and what the losses have created.
COOPER: Well, Sue Niederer, we appreciate you joining us. I know it's really difficult to talk about this subject. But we appreciate it. Thank you.
NIEDERER: It's my pleasure. And thank you for allowing us, and hopefully everything will come off with Ted Koppel and all the names will be read as the tribute.
COOPER: And Rick Weidman as well, from Washington. Thanks very much, Rick. We'll be right back.
WEIDMAN: Thank you, ABC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Taking remembering to "The Nth Degree." What do you see in this picture? A horse? A man? It's a Rorschach test. In the inkblot, no one person sees the same thing. As Janet Weaver of the Poynter Institute said, when Ted Koppel reads the names and shows the faces of those killed in Iraq later tonight, it will be another kind of Rorschach test. Some will see and hear a strong statement against the war. Others, a salute to the sacrifice of those who've lost their lives.
There is no doubt names have power. You see it in the faces of those visiting Washington's Vietnam Memorial, who hear it on September 11 when the roll call of victims is read out by their friends and families. Tonight, more names, more faces. Does reading them on TV make it political? It probably depends on where you stand and how you look at the inkblot.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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