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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Iraqi Insurgents Behead American Civilian; Taguba Testifies Before Senate Armed Services Committee
Aired May 11, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Anderson Cooper.
A barbaric act of brutality by Iraqi insurgents. They call it an act of retaliation for prisoner abuses.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): A savage slaying caught on tape. An American civilian beheaded by Iraqi terrorists. We'll look into a possible al Qaeda connection.
Who is this murdered American? The 26-year-old Pennsylvania man who planned to leave Iraq once and for all.
Military officials under oath testifying before Congress. Who knew what and when about abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison?
And, Kobe Bryant back in court and Scott Peterson denied a change of venue, the latest on two high profile trials.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Good evening. We begin this evening with the videotape posted on an Islamic Web site linked to al Qaeda. In the tape, Nicholas Berg, 26 years old, a civilian from West Chester, Pennsylvania sits bound. Later, masked Iraqi terrorists rail against the U.S. saying Americans should be prepared to receive more coffins partly due to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.
What happens after this short tape we'll not show you. The men hold Nicholas Berg down as one of them begins to saw through his neck. There are screams and blood and the sickening startled look of fear in the face of Nicholas Berg, his head held up to the camera as the terrorists yell, "God is great."
Berg disappeared over a month ago as he was preparing to leave Iraq. He'd been in the country reportedly looking for business repairing communication towers. News of his murder comes as the Senate hears from the general who led the investigation into Iraqi prisoner abuse.
We're covering all angles of this developing story tonight. In Washington, CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor. In West Chester, Pennsylvania Maria Hinojosa. In Baghdad, CNN's Ben Wedeman. And, at the Pentagon, CNN's Jamie McIntyre. We begin with David Ensor. David, what have you learned about the tape?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: In addition to the grisly murder you just described on the tape there is a claim of responsibility by the Zarqawi gang. This is a group closely associated with al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICHOLAS BERG: My name is Nic Berg. My father's name is Michael.
ENSOR (voice-over): "My name is Nic Berg" says the 26-year-old American civilian on the tape. Then he names his parents, his brother and sister and his hometown.
Standing behind Berg, who disappeared April 9, one of five hooded terrorists reads a statement referring to the controversy over abuse of prisoners by American soldiers.
"The dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib Prison is not redeemed except by blood and souls." The speaker promises coffins after coffins and then on the tape the last cry of Nic Berg is heard as his head is cut off with a knife.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's terrible. It's tragic. It also shows the stark difference between America and these barbarians.
ENSOR: The Web site claims that the killing was done by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist whose al Qaeda affiliated group is held responsible by U.S. intelligence for a string of bombings in Iraq and for the killing of an American diplomat in Amman. U.S. officials said the killers tried to take advantage of the prison abuse controversy to gain attention.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I think we need to understand that Zarqawi or none of the other terrorist leaders have needed in the past any particular provocation for their deadly destructive designs and conduct.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: On the tape, the hooded terrorist claims they offered to exchange Berg for Iraqi prisoners held in Abu Ghraib Prison. U.S. officials say they believe that is false. They know of no such offer -- Anderson.
COOPER: David, thanks very much, a sickening tape indeed.
In West Chester, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia, the reaction to Nic Berg's death is, of course, very personal. That's where his parents, his sister and brother live and tonight sit devastated in disbelief.
CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The tiny photograph of 26-year-old Nic Berg is taped to the old mailbox of his neighbor's home in suburban Philadelphia. Inside the home though there was only anguish. His parents were informed of his death Monday but didn't know it had been videotaped by his executioners until Tuesday.
BRUCE BAUSER, NEIGHBOR: The Berg family is devastated by this loss. They wish to extend their sympathies to the other families who have also suffered.
HINOJOSA: Family and friends describe Nic Berg as smart, funny and idealistic. Back in late December he decided to go to Iraq to look for work repairing communications towers but his reasons for going appear to be more than just for money or adventure according to his father, who spoke on Sunday, before he knew of his son's death.
MICHAEL BERG, FATHER: But he just really wanted to be part of something that was important. He supported the administration's being in Iraq. He supported everything that they were doing and he wanted to help and he wanted to help in a positive way by building rather than breaking down.
HINOJOSA: Nic Berg stayed in Iraq until February 1. Then he went back again on March 14. Unable to find work he planned to come home calling his parents every day as his departure neared.
Then on March 24 communication ended. Within days the FBI showed up at this house and told the Berg's their son had been picked up by the Iraqi police in Mosul and was transferred to U.S. authorities. That was all the information they got.
Frustrated, the Berg's went to federal court and sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense for holding their son without due process. The next day, April 6, Berg was released. He told his parents he would try to get out of Iraq as fast as he could but after April 9 there was no further word from him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HINOJOSA: Now the Berg family remains in seclusion in the house behind me opening on their doors to their neighbors who are coming by to offer condolences but today the Berg family was told by the State Department that the body of their son is in Kuwait and could arrive in the United States as early as tomorrow -- Anderson.
COOPER: So sad. Maria Hinojosa, thanks.
As CNN's David Ensor reported earlier, the Web site that posted the video showing the murder of Nic Berg said it was carried out by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamic terrorist group that has claimed responsibility for several attacks in Iraq.
Standing by live in Baghdad, CNN's Ben Wedeman with more -- Ben. BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson.
Well first let me give you some reaction here in Iraq to this tape. I've spoken to several Iraqis. They described those who killed Mr. Berg as criminals and we also heard from Iraq's human rights minister. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAKHTIAN AABH, IRAQ HUMAN RIGHTS MINISTER: The perpetrators or psychopaths who committed this immoral (unintelligible) should be brought before justice very rapidly and get their deserved punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEDEMAN: Now Mr. Zarqawi is a Jordanian national. His real name is Ahmed al-Hileli (ph) and, as David Ensor said before, he does have links with the al Qaeda network.
Now, U.S. officials believe he fled Afghanistan, where he was trained in al Qaeda camps in 2002, eventually ending up here in Iraq. Before the war, we heard U.S. officials saying they believed he had links with Saddam Hussein's regime but those links have not been proven yet.
Now he is believed to be -- before coming to Iraq he was involved, for instance, in a millennium plot to blow up restaurants and tourist spots in Jordan itself. He is believed to have a particular interest in developing chemical weapons.
Now, as far as how much support he has in Iraq and, of course, and he's been behind a series of attacks it's believed that have left hundreds of Iraqis dead, now he doesn't really have that much support among Iraqis. Many Iraqis you speak with think he's really just a bogeyman created by the Americans.
He is, however, virulently anti-Shiite and, of course, the Shiites make up 60 percent of the population. He in the past has described them as pagans and infidels -- Anderson.
COOPER: Ben, thanks very much live from Baghdad.
The killing of Nic Berg is just the latest reminder that civilians are being increasingly targeted in Iraq. Here's a quick "Fast Fact" for you. Since early March at least 38 foreign civilians have been killed in Iraq. This includes at least 14 Americans.
The beheading video surfaced as the general who first investigated Iraqi prisoner abuse was testifying today before Congress. Major General Antonio Taguba says he found no evidence that the abuse was ordered or part of an overall military policy but he also admitted that higher-ups may be responsible for what he called a failure of leadership.
More from CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The abuse of Iraqi prisoners was the result of individual, not institutional lapses according to the Army general whose investigation earned him a command performance on Capitol Hill.
MAJOR GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: Sir, we did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did. I believe that they did it on their own volition.
MCINTYRE: Taguba faulted the leadership at the prison, beginning with the military police brigade commander Brigadier General Janis Karpinski and the military intelligence brigade commander Colonel Thomas Pappas but went no higher.
TAGUBA: Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down, lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision.
MCINTYRE: Pappas, the intelligence brigade commander, was given tactical control of the prison last November but the Pentagon denied that gave him command of the prison guards.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: What exactly does that mean? How do you have control over a facility but not the people who are running it?
STEPHEN CAMBONE, UNDERSECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTELLIGENCE: The same way that...
BAYH: Were they in charge of the plumbing or the...
CAMBONE: No, sir. Well, in the same way that you have a building supervisor who doesn't tell the tenants how to do their business.
MCINTYRE: A lawyer for one of the accused claims this picture of abuse shows prison guards working with military intelligence personnel despite Taguba's findings that there were no orders to the guards. Senators question the idea that this was simply a result of informal low-level cooperation.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The collars used on prisoners, the dogs and the cameras did not suddenly appear out of thin air. These acts of abuse were not the spontaneous actions of lower ranking enlisted personnel who lacked the proper supervision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Under sharp questioning from Senators, General Taguba conceded that the failure of leadership was not just a lack of oversight but a willful determination to make abuse part of the interrogation process -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Thanks very much Jamie. We'll talk more about today's answers with one of the questioners, Senator Evan Bayh. We'll also talk with retired Colonel David Hackworth. That's later on 360.
With so much negative news out of Iraq these days, President Bush finds himself on the defensive on the campaign trail.
CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Education was the president's focus in Arkansas, not a mention of the prisoner abuse scandal, though this standard speech line jumps out these days.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: See, we believe in the dignity of every human being.
KING: Every president likes to control the agenda and every president learns there are limitations.
JOHN PODESTA, FMR. CLINTON WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He wants to, you know, try to focus on his, you know, whatever his message of the day is from a campaign perspective but I think as long as the story is around it's going to dominate the headlines.
KING: It is a frustrating time for a White House that puts such a premium on what politicians call message discipline even when on defense. Part of the strategy is to make the case the administration deserves credit not blame.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The military, not the media, discovered these abuses. The military reported the abuses, not the media.
KING: There are more pictures, ongoing investigations and, on top of the prisoner abuse scandal, continued fighting and political turmoil in Iraq, questions and uncertainty unwelcome ingredients for a president seeking reelection.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: We're in the midst of one of these major storms that comes into Washington periodically and there's a lot of lightning and thunder and people are, you know, and nobody knows who's going to get hit by the lightning.
KING: On Capitol Hill, the general who investigated the abuses said the blame lies with the soldiers directly involved, not in Washington.
TAGUBA: We didn't find any order whatsoever, sir, written or otherwise that directed them to do what they did.
KING: But administration critics are still focused higher up the chain of command. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: From the White House, John one story of course that's knocking some of the prisoner abuse story out of the headlines right now, this beheading video. What's the president's reaction to it?
KING: We are told that the White House, Anderson, condemns the heinous tactics of the terrorists. The administration also vowing to bring to justice the terrorists responsible for killing Mr. Berg.
The administration though says it will not be deterred from continuing to prosecute the war on terrorism and the White House also says on this evening, Anderson, its thoughts and prayers are with the Berg family.
COOPER: All right, John King thanks very much for that.
John Kerry also out on the campaign trail and that tops our look at stories right now "Cross Country."
Kerry meets with small business owners in Louisville, Kentucky, telling them his health care plan would help cover soaring costs. It's his first campaign stop in the Blue Grass State, which is holding its primaries next Tuesday.
Topeka, Kansas now, schools ordered closed. A judge tells public schools to close their schools this fall, keep them shut until the state fixes flaws in the Constitution that determine how they're funded. The Board of Education is appealing that ruling.
Boulder, Colorado now, U.C. football players off the hook. The state attorney general says he will not file charges after investigating the cases of at least eight women who claim they were raped at recruiting parties. He says there are evidence problems and some of the accusers aren't willing to go forward with the cases.
Elbert County, Colorado now, tornado clean-up, at least seven twisters touched down in rural areas knocking out power and destroying a farmhouse and barn. No injuries were reported.
Lansing, Michigan now, a familiar name running for office. John Ramsey has just announced he is running for the Michigan State House. Ramsey, of course, the father of Jon Benet Ramsey whose 1996 murder remains unsolved.
That's a look at stories "Cross Country" for you tonight.
A terrorist with a $10 million bounty on his head, was he the man responsible for murdering an American on video? Find out the motive and strategy of this killer on the run.
Plus, outrage over the outrage, is the Iraqi prison abuse story being overplayed? A look at the politics of the investigation that ahead.
And laying blame, are low-level soldiers being made scapegoats? We'll hear from both sides, all that ahead.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the Islamic Web site showing video of 26-year-old American Nicholas Berg being beheaded says the execution was carried out by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamic terrorist group and, while there's some question the killer on the tape really is Zarqawi, it wouldn't be impossible. Some call him the most dangerous terrorist in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The price tag on his head $10 million, testament to Zarqawi's chilling terrorist resume. The Jordanians have wanted to get their hands on him since 2000. They say he was behind plans to blow up this hotel and other tourist sites during the millennium.
By then Zarqawi was in Afghanistan building up his own terrorist group and allying himself with Osama bin Laden. When he left there, say intelligence sources, he was bankrolled by al Qaeda. The Jordanians say Zarqawi was the mastermind behind the assassination of U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley.
European intelligence sources say he's been linked to chemical weapons plots in Britain and France. Spanish investigators tied him more recently to the Madrid train bombings. And then there was the recently foiled massive plot to bomb Jordanian intelligence headquarters, possibly also with chemical weapons.
PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM ANALYST: From an operational standpoint, Zarqawi is more important than bin Laden, at least in the Middle East right now.
COOPER: Especially in Iraq where Zarqawi has been most active, claiming credit for attacks all over the country from Baghdad to Basra. A letter from Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden was intercepted earlier this year urging bin Laden to support his plan for starting a civil war in Iraq.
"If you agree with us on it," said the letter, "we will be your readied soldiers."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the videotape is just disgusting, disturbing. There's no doubt about it. We're not going to show you any more of the details of it but we do want to talk about it more and more the message of the video and the strategy behind releasing it.
Jim Walsh, an international security expert at Harvard University joins me now. Jim, good to see you. What do the terrorists want to do by releasing this video now? JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I think it has to be understood that every time we make a mistake in Iraq the Islamic extremists are going to seize that and try to use it for their own advantage and this is evidence A in that cause.
And what they've done is they've tried to do two things. First, they've tried to say to the Muslim and to the Arab community, look, the U.S. has done this awful stuff and I'm standing up to them. I'm going to take revenge on your behalf. He's trying to tap into the anger of the Muslim world and bring more recruits, more power to himself.
COOPER: They're very media savvy. I know in the past, you know, people say terrorism is theater. These guys know how to grab the stage.
WALSH: Absolutely. They may be murderers but they're not stupid and they know how to astutely take advantage of our weaknesses. It's clear that this fiasco with the prisons and the abuses is being on every television screen in the Arab and Muslim world.
It is feeding that anti-American sentiment and they are not wasting any time. They're seizing that opportunity and saying we're the ones who are standing up to the Americans and they hope, I think, by doing that to try to bring more recruits, more money, more political support for their cause.
COOPER: Interesting, though, that on the Web site they release the name Zarqawi saying that he was the person, the masked person there slitting the throat of this young American. Why would they add that detail?
WALSH: Anderson, that's a really good question and it makes one speculate and this is only speculation here but, as Peter Bergen pointed out in your report, Zarqawi is arguably more important than bin Laden right now.
While bin Laden is out avoiding capture in the frontier provinces of Pakistan, Zarqawi is executing operation after operation after operation. This may be his attempt to assert his own claim to the leadership mantle to say he's really the most important terrorist in the world today and that he is, in some sense, replacing bin Laden.
COOPER: Let me just play Devil's advocate here for a second because, you know, there have been just about every terrorist happening that has occurred in the last year or so has suddenly been linked to Zarqawi. Is it possible that people are just kind of naming him when they don't know who else to name?
WALSH: Absolutely. I mean he has been alleged to be -- to have been responsible from everything from bombing the Kurds, bombing the Shiite mosques, the attack in Spain, so on, so on, so on.
Maybe he's responsible for all of them. Maybe he's not. But insofar as we say he's responsible or he is responsible his reputation grows and then he acts on it. He really takes a page out of bin Laden's book by airing this videotape or having this videotape aired and is really personally asserting his role in this saying he is the one who is taking vengeance on behalf of Muslims and Arabs.
COOPER: I also, I read the transcript of what the man alleged to be Zarqawi was saying before they murdered Nicholas Berg and in it I was interested to see that he calls what happened in Fallujah, the Marines pulling back, a victory that clearly they got the message that that was a sign of U.S. American weakness.
WALSH: Well, this is one of those horrible dilemmas that the U.S. faces in Iraq. If you -- on the one hand if you're too aggressive and you go into suppress the insurgents, then you will alienate the majority but, if you pull back and try to resolve it diplomatically, then you'll be accused of being weak and they will take signs of weakness as an opportunity to assert themselves. It appears, at least for now, as if it's a no win situation but, again, we can expect more not less of this in the future.
COOPER: Yes, sad to say likely true though. Jim Walsh, thanks very much, always good to talk to you.
WALSH: Good to see you, Anderson.
COOPER: I want to check other stories right now in the global "Up Link." Let's take a look at what's going on.
In Gaza City, fierce fighting, Hamas militants displayed the remains of six Israeli soldiers killed by a roadside bomb. Seven Palestinians were killed in a battle. It started overnight when Israeli troops entered a Gaza City neighborhood to look for weapons workshops.
Glasgow, Scotland now, searching for survivors, at least four people were killed and 37 injured in a plastics factory explosion today. Rescuers working overnight trying to free survivors from the rubble.
In Mexico City, a different kind of air show and UFO fever. Look at what -- see what you're looking at? The Mexican Air Force releases this footage picked up by an infrared camera on a surveillance plane near the Gulf of Mexico.
It shows blobs of lights swirling around a plane, however in formation and darting into clouds. So far, scientists haven't weighed in on what the objects might be. The truth is out there, though.
That's tonight's "Up Link."
The politics of investigation, an outrage over the outrage. Politicians squaring off over Iraqi prison abuse.
Also tonight, the blame game, are U.S. soldiers, low level U.S. soldiers taking the fall for a policy gone awry? We'll hear from both sides on that. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The testimony of Major General Antonio Taguba before the Senate Committee investigating the Iraqi abuse scandal was overshadowed at times today by the politics on Capitol Hill. Though both President Bush and John Kerry were far from the proceedings, the race for the White House was definitely felt.
Here's CNN Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today's star witness was the non-political career officer whose explosive report exposed the prison abuse scandal.
TAGUBA: A few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international law and the Geneva Convention.
HENRY: But it didn't take long for presidential politics to flare up as one Republican mocked what he called humanitarian do- gooders who care more about the prisoners than American soldiers and charged that the Democrats are hyping the scandal for political gain.
SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: But I'm also outraged by the press and the politicians and the political agendas that are being served by this.
HENRY: Inhofe held up an online petition that was circulated by the Kerry campaign to get Secretary Rumsfeld fired.
INHOFE: And they say a solicitation for contributions.
HENRY: Democrats say it was not a fund-raising pitch and fired back that President Bush played politics by heading over to the Pentagon to give Secretary Rumsfeld another public vote of confidence.
SEN. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: The president looked at a dozen more pictures of abuse and reportedly shook his head in disgust but the apologies, regrets and mea culpas are now history. It's back to business as usual.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Anderson, under a bipartisan deal reached just moments ago, the Pentagon will deliver these new photos and videos demonstrating more prison abuses to the Senate on Wednesday afternoon. Senators will have only three hours to view this sensational material.
It will then be sent right back to the Pentagon so they have custody of it. The Pentagon will ultimately decide whether or not to release this sensational material.
And one interesting note is that House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter told CNN a short while ago that he's concerned that given the murder of this American hostage it might be an especially bad idea now to release these photos and videos because it could put more Americans in harm's way -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Ed Henry, thanks very much for that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): A savage slaying caught on tape, an American civilian beheaded by Iraqi terrorists. We'll look into a possible al Qaeda connection.
Military officials under oath testifying before Congress. Who knew what and when about abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison?
And, Kobe Bryant back in court and Scott Peterson denied a change of venue, the latest on two high profile trials, 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The Reset." Tonight's top stories.
We go first to Baghdad. An American beheaded. Video from an Islamic Web site shows the execution of this man, Nicholas Berg, a 26- year-old civilian from Pennsylvania. The Web site that aired his decapitation said that the beheading was carried out by Abu Musab al- Zarqawi and called it revenge for Iraqi prisoner abuse. We're going to have more on this in a moment.
Capitol Hill now. More Senate hearings into how the abuse happened. Today, Major General Antonio Taguba said it was caused by failures in leadership, training and discipline. But he also said military police who acted improperly did so of their own volition.
Washington now, going up before they come down. The government says gas prices won't peak until next month. They're expected to hit $2.03 a gallon nationwide by that time, 21 cents higher than previous estimates.
In Tacoma, Washington, that sticker shock prompted this massive protest. More than 200 logging trucks parked at the Tacoma Dome today. Drivers say the high cost of fuel is making it nearly impossible for them to work, insisting it could drive them out of business.
And Washington, D.C., more lifers on the inside. A new report says the number of prison inmates serving life sentences is up, get this, 83 percent since 1992. That is one in every 11 prisoners nationwide.
That's "The Reset" for you.
The murder of American Nicholas Berg videotaped and released on a Web site has shocked us all. Not that the killing is a surprise; the terrorist tactics are well known to us all. But the tape itself is sickening in its calculated brutality. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor is following the story.
David, the terrorists on this tape claim they're killing Berg in retaliation for Iraqi prisoner abuse. Do U.S. officials really buy that?
ENSOR: Not really, no, Anderson. On the Web site, a group claiming to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's gang shows this man, who identifies himself as the American Nick Berg, and a hooded terrorist then reads a statement in which he says then, quote, "the dignity of Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib prison and others is not redeemed except by blood." He speaks of the shameful photos being "evil humiliation for Muslim men and women in the Abu Ghraib prison," and refers to President Bush as, quote, "the dog of the West, whose worst days are coming."
But officials say that they do not believe that this was direct retaliation for the prison abuse. After all, Berg was taken prisoner back on April 9. They believe that the Zarqawi gang, if this is who's done it, are just trying to take advantage of a very negative propaganda situation for the United States. And they also say -- they also say that the speaker's claim that the U.S. refused to exchange Berg for other prisoners in Abu Ghraib, they say that is just not true.
COOPER: And in trying to link their cause with these terrible pictures of Iraqi prisoner abuse, I guess they're trying to sort of garner sympathy and get new recruits?
ENSOR: Well, that's right. And there will be those in the Middle East who will be more sympathetic to this kind of action because of these prisoner abuse photos. But officials say they think it's just trying to take advantage of that.
One other interesting note, on the Web site, there is the claim that this is actually Abu Musab Zarqawi who does the talking and the killing on the tape. But CNN Arabic linguists who have listened to the tape closely, and who know his voice from other tapes, say it's the wrong regional accent. The wrong part of Jordan, it couldn't be Zarqawi in their view.
COOPER: Interesting. All right, interesting development. David Ensor, thanks for that.
When the video first surfaced this afternoon, the Senate Armed Services Committee was hearing from the general who led the prison abuse investigation. General Antonio Taguba wrote the 53-page report which cited sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuse of some Iraqi prisoners. Some. Today on Capitol Hill, he summarized his findings. Here's a quick recap of today's testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The despicable actions described in General Taguba's report not only reek of abuse, they reek of an organized effort and methodical preparation for interrogation. MAJ. GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: We did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did. I believe that they did it on their own volition.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: In simple words, your own soldiers' language, how did this happen?
TAGUBA: Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down. Lack of discipline. No training whatsoever. And no supervision. Supervisory omission was rampant.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Saddam Hussein is in our control. How would you feel if we sic dogs on him tomorrow?
TAGUBA: Sir, on Saddam Hussein?
GRAHAM: Yeah.
TAGUBA: Sir, we still have to follow the tenets of international law.
GRAHAM: As much as you and I dislike him, as mean a tyrant as he is and we know he'd kill us all tomorrow. I am so proud of you.
SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: These prisoners, they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents. Many of them probably have American blood on their hands. And here we're so concerned about the treatment of those individuals.
TAGUBA: At the end of the day, a few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international law, and the Geneva Convention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, joining me from Washington, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee who heard today's testimony, Democrat Evan Bayh. Senator Bayh, we appreciate you being on the program today.
You asked two very pertinent questions during the testimony today. And I'm not sure I understood the answers you got, and I want to come ask you about them. You asked basically, who controlled the prison? Because the undersecretary of defense testifying that military intelligence controlled the facility, but not the MPs inside it. Did you get that?
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: Sort of, Anderson. It's a level of obstruction that can make it understandable why the MPs would be confused. It was analogized to having the superintendent of a office building who was in charge of the physical structure, but not the people who worked in the office building.
I frankly found it to be unpersuasive. And the general found it to be unpersuasive, too. He concluded in his report that the MPs felt that they were under the influence, and to use the military term, the tactical control of the military intelligence personnel. And that's one of the things that contributed to the unfortunate behavior.
COOPER: What do you still need to learn that you don't know about what went on and why it happened?
BAYH: Well, there's an ongoing investigation about the role of the military intelligence there. We need to look into the role of the contractors there. And also see why the warnings of Ambassador Bremer and others were not heeded sooner in terms of rectifying the situation.
And, Anderson, so much of this goes back to the seeds of so many of the problems we're seeing in Iraq. The Pentagon simply failed to anticipate the magnitude of the challenge that we face there. So, this prison went from having 2,000 inmates to more than 6,000 or 7,000. They were understaffed. They were under a lot of pressure to get information out of the detainees. They faced attacks from without the prison, insurrections inside. There was just inadequate planning from the top on down. And I think we need to get answers to that.
COOPER: In your opinion, is it OK for MPs to set conditions? Because you had sort of different testimony today. Taguba said it's not OK under Army regulations for MPs to set conditions for interrogations. The Undersecretary Cambone said, yeah, maybe it is.
BAYH: Well, there's a line there, and a lot of blurring. Clearly they need to communicate with one another. And clearly the MPs are allowed to sort of listen, see who the detainees are talking to, hear the information they might have to provide. But in terms of the things that were done there, that was just so far over the line that anyone recognizes that's not permissible.
COOPER: Does this not go above the brigade level. Taguba said he had no evidence it went above the brigade level in terms of responsibility?
BAYH: Well, based upon the parameters that were placed upon his investigation it didn't go beyond the brigade level in his opinion.
COOPER: Because he was only looking at the MP side of it.
BAYH: That is correct. There's an ongoing investigation knew into the military intelligence side of things. And as I said, I think we need to look into why Ambassador Bremer's warnings and Secretary Powell's warnings weren't heeded sooner. And why the facility was so woefully understaffed. They put these MPs in there, undertrained, over populated and put them in a very difficult situation. It doesn't justify their behavior, but we need to understand why the preparation for all this was so inadequate.
COOPER: It was fascinating testimony today. Senator Evan Bayh, appreciate you being on the program. Thanks.
BAYH: Good to be with you.
Today's "Buzz" question is this for you, "Are U.S. goals in Iraq worth the cost?
What do you think. Log onto cnn.com/360. Right now cast your vote. We're going to have results in just a few moments at the end of the program.
Coming up the fallout over the prisoner abuse scandal. Coming up, who is responsible, and should Donald Rumsfeld resign?
We'll debate some of those questions just ahead.
Also his testimony was crystal clear but the name gave lawmakers plenty of trouble. Taking Taguba to "The Nth Degree." That's later on.
Also Kobe Bryant enters a formal plea, not guilty, 10 months after his alleged crime. We'll have a report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, a systematic failure in leadership. That's what Major General Antonio Taguba said led to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. But does that failure lead all the way up to the Pentagon.
My next guest thinks so. David Hackworth is a retired U.S. Army colonel, the author several books. A legend. We appreciate him being on the program. Thanks for being with us.
COL. DAVID HACKWORTH (RET.), U.S. ARMY: My pleasure.
COOPER: You think -- Taguba basically said this doesn't go above brigade level. But I was only looking at the military police side of this. You think the can of worms may be on the military intelligence side and that investigation is still on going.
HACKWORTH: It's definitely there. And I think his charter to just look at the MP side, was the kind of the old dodge game on the part of the army. We hope this will make it go away. But bottom line is, for example, just before I came on the show, I got a report from a military intelligence colonel, a guy that really is in the know, and he said that this system of abuse was organized, planned for, the top generals knew about it. The commanding general out there of military intelligence, General Fast knew about it, probably General Sanchez. And it probably went right up the line to the Pentagon.
COOPER: But let's just play devil's advocate. Today Taguba said Sanchez put out orders about what are the established guidelines, and these people down low weren't following those orders.
You don't buy that?
HACKWORTH: No, I don't. And the colonel also said that it was a program designed to instruct the military police by the military intelligence folks. And there was this thing that you mentioned earlier, who was in command?
You know, you can only have one captain of a ship. You can't have two. And if you and I were running that prison, look, buddy, Anderson are you running it or am I running it?
We'd be on the phone to Sanchez and say who's in charge here.
COOPER: Taguba said he found no evidence of actual paper orders saying military intelligence was in charge.
HACKWORTH: But he just looked at the military police side. I think once you dig in, and according to my source today, a very reliable source, he alleges that General Fast was very much involved in this. Even training films were made, and sent back to the intelligence school to be used for training. And that both the MPs and the military intelligence folks were told to ignore the Geneva Convention. It didn't count. So you can bet your boots there's a whole bunch more going to come out on this, and it's going to go all the way to the Pentagon.
COOPER: You've been in this story from the beginning. They came to you first to kind of get this information out there. You've done great reporting on it.
HACKWORTH: Only because a whole bunch of Congress folks didn't do their job.
COOPER: Colonel David Hackworth, always good to talk to you.
HACKWORTH: Good seeing you.
COOPER: Well, there are many people who probably disagree with Colonel Hackworth, insisting the Pentagon may not be to blame. One person who feels that way is Robert Maginnis, a retired army lieutenant colonel. He joins me now from Washington. Robert, thanks very much for being on the program.
You just heard what Colonel Hackworth said.
What do you think?
LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I don't know who his source us and I've certainly spoken to senior officials and others in Baghdad about this. I'm not hearing the same type of thing. We have a series of intensive investigations. The thing that you heard from Taguba was the 15-6 that looked at the brigade and below. So you wouldn't expect to look at something much higher than that.
COOPER: But why was he just asked to go and look at military police?
Why not asked to have a larger charter?
MAGINNIS: Because, Anderson, on the 13th of January when Sanchez received the allegation, it was about a bunch of soldiers in Abu Ghraib that were doing wrong. That's how we work with those types of investigations. Then as you find out more, you expand the investigation, which he didn't see necessary at the time. But there are six significant investigations across the entire systemic issues that are involved here. COOPER: And I'm particularly interested in this military intelligence investigation, because I think that's going to bear a lot of fruit.
But does it make sense to you just on a gut level, I mean, you spent a lot of time in the military, that military intelligence ran the facility but didn't have charge of the MPs inside it? I don't get it.
MAGINNIS: You saw the debate between Taguba and Cambone today. Obviously this issue of tactical control of the facility is of some question. I've heard Janis Karpinski and her mea culpas about what's going on there. She doesn't want to be blamed. But I'll tell you a brigadier general who really inside a facility, and if she doesn't know what's going on, there's something seriously wrong there. You know, yes there was competition between two commands. But, that just doesn't happen in the world that I'm familiar with within the United States Army in 2004. Maybe that was true in David Hackworth's day, back during the Vietnam era. That's not true today.
COOPER: But does it make sense that Karpinski and Pappas, who was in control, the person in charge of the military intelligence side, there was apparently friction between them. But why wasn't it clear who was in charge?
Senator Bayh, he's not even clear at this point who was in charge.
MAGINNIS: Well, you know, that is got to be reconciled somehow. The reality is that when brigadier generals are working to the, they draw the lines very clear so they know what their individual responsibilities are. Why in the world these two brigadiers couldn't work it out doesn't make any sense to me. I'm sure that that's one of the things we're going to need to get to the bottom.
COOPER: Retired Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis, appreciate you being on the program. Thanks. Good to talk to you.
Up next, Kobe Bryant goes from one court to another. Today the NBA star finally entered a plea. We'll have all the details on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for justice served. Scott Peterson's trial will stay right where it is. A judge in Redwood City, California, has denied a request to move the case to Los Angeles. The trial has already been moved once. But the defense wanted it moved again, citing concerns about juror bias. Not going to happen. In Colorado, meanwhile, Kobe Bryant pleads not guilty to sexual assault. Bryant was formally arraigned this afternoon nearly 11 months after his arrest. CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman is in Eagle, Colorado, with the latest. Good evening, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Anderson. Basketball superstar Kobe Bryant has finally said the words in court. He says he's not guilty of sexual assault. We expected the judge to say when the trial will be. Judge has to wait a couple of weeks to do that. But we have learned that it is expected to be this summer, most likely this August. Cameras were allowed into the arraignment, which was very brief.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TERRY RUCKRIEGEL, DISTRICT JUDGE: It carries a possible penalty of four years, up to life in the Department of Corrections, or 20 years up to life if probation is imposed pursuant to 18.1.3104. Also carries a possible fine of $3,000 to $750,000. Fine, jail, or both. Do you understand that charge?
KOBE BRYANT, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Yes, sir.
RUCKRIEGEL: How do you plead, not guilty or guilty?
BRYANT: Not guilty.
TUCHMAN: Bryant immediately flew to Los Angeles where his Lakers have a playoff game tonight against the San Antonio Spurs. The judge still has to make critical legal decisions such as will this woman's sexual history parts of it, be allowed into the trial. Will parts of her medical history be allowed to be discussed in the trial? He's already said no medical records in the trial but witnesses could be called to discuss her medical history. The woman did appear in court yesterday. The second time she's faced Kobe Bryant. We are not showing her face to protect her identity. She just wanted to observe. She left after less than two hours and was not here today for the arraignment. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman live in Eagle. Thank very much, Gary.
Time to check on some much lighter stuff and some pop news in tonight's current. A change of pace here. Starting next week a Louisville based company will be selling low-carb wines to dieters. The Brown Foreman company says the wine will sell for $9.99 and some in Chardonnay and Merlot. Perfect for drinkers counting carbs but we suspect after the second glass, who will care? Ice cream lovers beware. The biggest price hike ever is set for this summer. Much of it is reportedly due to rising dairy costs. Some have accused the cow cartel of making a secret deal for lower prices just before the election. The cartel says that is utterly false. Thank you. I'll be here all week.
Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton have apparently been feuding during the filming of the second season of "A Simple Life." Apparently editors are having a tough time making them look friendly. As for smart? There's only so much special effects can do.
Time now for the buzz. Earlier we asked you, "are U.S. goals in Iraq worth the cost?" And a high cost indeed. 27 percent of you said yes, 73 percent of you said no. Certainly not a scientific poll but it is your buzz. We appreciate you voting. Coming up, Major General Anthony -- see I did it. Antonio Taguba. Try to say that name yourself. Lawmakers had a tough time when quizzing him today. I knew I was going to mess that up. We're going to take that to the Nth Degree coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight taking three syllables to the Nth Degree. There's a universal agreement that the army major general who appeared today before the Senate committee looking into what happened at Abu Ghraib prison, the major general who was entrusted to write the report on that terrible business in the first place did an absolutely forthright job in that report of his. Performing without fear or favor. About that as we say there's agreement. About how to pronounce his name, however, there seems to be no agreement at all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tag-abu -- excuse me. I'm probably doing violence to your name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tag -- Taguba, I understand...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tab-uga -- I want to thank you for your...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Taguba, we want to -- I want to join others in commending you and thank you for the service...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tagabu and -- Taguba and General Smith can clarify...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A name of six letters, three consonants each followed by a vowel and no consensus on how to say it. There's Washington for you. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching 360. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 11, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Anderson Cooper.
A barbaric act of brutality by Iraqi insurgents. They call it an act of retaliation for prisoner abuses.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): A savage slaying caught on tape. An American civilian beheaded by Iraqi terrorists. We'll look into a possible al Qaeda connection.
Who is this murdered American? The 26-year-old Pennsylvania man who planned to leave Iraq once and for all.
Military officials under oath testifying before Congress. Who knew what and when about abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison?
And, Kobe Bryant back in court and Scott Peterson denied a change of venue, the latest on two high profile trials.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Good evening. We begin this evening with the videotape posted on an Islamic Web site linked to al Qaeda. In the tape, Nicholas Berg, 26 years old, a civilian from West Chester, Pennsylvania sits bound. Later, masked Iraqi terrorists rail against the U.S. saying Americans should be prepared to receive more coffins partly due to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.
What happens after this short tape we'll not show you. The men hold Nicholas Berg down as one of them begins to saw through his neck. There are screams and blood and the sickening startled look of fear in the face of Nicholas Berg, his head held up to the camera as the terrorists yell, "God is great."
Berg disappeared over a month ago as he was preparing to leave Iraq. He'd been in the country reportedly looking for business repairing communication towers. News of his murder comes as the Senate hears from the general who led the investigation into Iraqi prisoner abuse.
We're covering all angles of this developing story tonight. In Washington, CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor. In West Chester, Pennsylvania Maria Hinojosa. In Baghdad, CNN's Ben Wedeman. And, at the Pentagon, CNN's Jamie McIntyre. We begin with David Ensor. David, what have you learned about the tape?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: In addition to the grisly murder you just described on the tape there is a claim of responsibility by the Zarqawi gang. This is a group closely associated with al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICHOLAS BERG: My name is Nic Berg. My father's name is Michael.
ENSOR (voice-over): "My name is Nic Berg" says the 26-year-old American civilian on the tape. Then he names his parents, his brother and sister and his hometown.
Standing behind Berg, who disappeared April 9, one of five hooded terrorists reads a statement referring to the controversy over abuse of prisoners by American soldiers.
"The dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib Prison is not redeemed except by blood and souls." The speaker promises coffins after coffins and then on the tape the last cry of Nic Berg is heard as his head is cut off with a knife.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's terrible. It's tragic. It also shows the stark difference between America and these barbarians.
ENSOR: The Web site claims that the killing was done by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist whose al Qaeda affiliated group is held responsible by U.S. intelligence for a string of bombings in Iraq and for the killing of an American diplomat in Amman. U.S. officials said the killers tried to take advantage of the prison abuse controversy to gain attention.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I think we need to understand that Zarqawi or none of the other terrorist leaders have needed in the past any particular provocation for their deadly destructive designs and conduct.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: On the tape, the hooded terrorist claims they offered to exchange Berg for Iraqi prisoners held in Abu Ghraib Prison. U.S. officials say they believe that is false. They know of no such offer -- Anderson.
COOPER: David, thanks very much, a sickening tape indeed.
In West Chester, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia, the reaction to Nic Berg's death is, of course, very personal. That's where his parents, his sister and brother live and tonight sit devastated in disbelief.
CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The tiny photograph of 26-year-old Nic Berg is taped to the old mailbox of his neighbor's home in suburban Philadelphia. Inside the home though there was only anguish. His parents were informed of his death Monday but didn't know it had been videotaped by his executioners until Tuesday.
BRUCE BAUSER, NEIGHBOR: The Berg family is devastated by this loss. They wish to extend their sympathies to the other families who have also suffered.
HINOJOSA: Family and friends describe Nic Berg as smart, funny and idealistic. Back in late December he decided to go to Iraq to look for work repairing communications towers but his reasons for going appear to be more than just for money or adventure according to his father, who spoke on Sunday, before he knew of his son's death.
MICHAEL BERG, FATHER: But he just really wanted to be part of something that was important. He supported the administration's being in Iraq. He supported everything that they were doing and he wanted to help and he wanted to help in a positive way by building rather than breaking down.
HINOJOSA: Nic Berg stayed in Iraq until February 1. Then he went back again on March 14. Unable to find work he planned to come home calling his parents every day as his departure neared.
Then on March 24 communication ended. Within days the FBI showed up at this house and told the Berg's their son had been picked up by the Iraqi police in Mosul and was transferred to U.S. authorities. That was all the information they got.
Frustrated, the Berg's went to federal court and sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense for holding their son without due process. The next day, April 6, Berg was released. He told his parents he would try to get out of Iraq as fast as he could but after April 9 there was no further word from him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HINOJOSA: Now the Berg family remains in seclusion in the house behind me opening on their doors to their neighbors who are coming by to offer condolences but today the Berg family was told by the State Department that the body of their son is in Kuwait and could arrive in the United States as early as tomorrow -- Anderson.
COOPER: So sad. Maria Hinojosa, thanks.
As CNN's David Ensor reported earlier, the Web site that posted the video showing the murder of Nic Berg said it was carried out by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamic terrorist group that has claimed responsibility for several attacks in Iraq.
Standing by live in Baghdad, CNN's Ben Wedeman with more -- Ben. BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson.
Well first let me give you some reaction here in Iraq to this tape. I've spoken to several Iraqis. They described those who killed Mr. Berg as criminals and we also heard from Iraq's human rights minister. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAKHTIAN AABH, IRAQ HUMAN RIGHTS MINISTER: The perpetrators or psychopaths who committed this immoral (unintelligible) should be brought before justice very rapidly and get their deserved punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEDEMAN: Now Mr. Zarqawi is a Jordanian national. His real name is Ahmed al-Hileli (ph) and, as David Ensor said before, he does have links with the al Qaeda network.
Now, U.S. officials believe he fled Afghanistan, where he was trained in al Qaeda camps in 2002, eventually ending up here in Iraq. Before the war, we heard U.S. officials saying they believed he had links with Saddam Hussein's regime but those links have not been proven yet.
Now he is believed to be -- before coming to Iraq he was involved, for instance, in a millennium plot to blow up restaurants and tourist spots in Jordan itself. He is believed to have a particular interest in developing chemical weapons.
Now, as far as how much support he has in Iraq and, of course, and he's been behind a series of attacks it's believed that have left hundreds of Iraqis dead, now he doesn't really have that much support among Iraqis. Many Iraqis you speak with think he's really just a bogeyman created by the Americans.
He is, however, virulently anti-Shiite and, of course, the Shiites make up 60 percent of the population. He in the past has described them as pagans and infidels -- Anderson.
COOPER: Ben, thanks very much live from Baghdad.
The killing of Nic Berg is just the latest reminder that civilians are being increasingly targeted in Iraq. Here's a quick "Fast Fact" for you. Since early March at least 38 foreign civilians have been killed in Iraq. This includes at least 14 Americans.
The beheading video surfaced as the general who first investigated Iraqi prisoner abuse was testifying today before Congress. Major General Antonio Taguba says he found no evidence that the abuse was ordered or part of an overall military policy but he also admitted that higher-ups may be responsible for what he called a failure of leadership.
More from CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The abuse of Iraqi prisoners was the result of individual, not institutional lapses according to the Army general whose investigation earned him a command performance on Capitol Hill.
MAJOR GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: Sir, we did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did. I believe that they did it on their own volition.
MCINTYRE: Taguba faulted the leadership at the prison, beginning with the military police brigade commander Brigadier General Janis Karpinski and the military intelligence brigade commander Colonel Thomas Pappas but went no higher.
TAGUBA: Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down, lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision.
MCINTYRE: Pappas, the intelligence brigade commander, was given tactical control of the prison last November but the Pentagon denied that gave him command of the prison guards.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: What exactly does that mean? How do you have control over a facility but not the people who are running it?
STEPHEN CAMBONE, UNDERSECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTELLIGENCE: The same way that...
BAYH: Were they in charge of the plumbing or the...
CAMBONE: No, sir. Well, in the same way that you have a building supervisor who doesn't tell the tenants how to do their business.
MCINTYRE: A lawyer for one of the accused claims this picture of abuse shows prison guards working with military intelligence personnel despite Taguba's findings that there were no orders to the guards. Senators question the idea that this was simply a result of informal low-level cooperation.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The collars used on prisoners, the dogs and the cameras did not suddenly appear out of thin air. These acts of abuse were not the spontaneous actions of lower ranking enlisted personnel who lacked the proper supervision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Under sharp questioning from Senators, General Taguba conceded that the failure of leadership was not just a lack of oversight but a willful determination to make abuse part of the interrogation process -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Thanks very much Jamie. We'll talk more about today's answers with one of the questioners, Senator Evan Bayh. We'll also talk with retired Colonel David Hackworth. That's later on 360.
With so much negative news out of Iraq these days, President Bush finds himself on the defensive on the campaign trail.
CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Education was the president's focus in Arkansas, not a mention of the prisoner abuse scandal, though this standard speech line jumps out these days.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: See, we believe in the dignity of every human being.
KING: Every president likes to control the agenda and every president learns there are limitations.
JOHN PODESTA, FMR. CLINTON WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He wants to, you know, try to focus on his, you know, whatever his message of the day is from a campaign perspective but I think as long as the story is around it's going to dominate the headlines.
KING: It is a frustrating time for a White House that puts such a premium on what politicians call message discipline even when on defense. Part of the strategy is to make the case the administration deserves credit not blame.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The military, not the media, discovered these abuses. The military reported the abuses, not the media.
KING: There are more pictures, ongoing investigations and, on top of the prisoner abuse scandal, continued fighting and political turmoil in Iraq, questions and uncertainty unwelcome ingredients for a president seeking reelection.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: We're in the midst of one of these major storms that comes into Washington periodically and there's a lot of lightning and thunder and people are, you know, and nobody knows who's going to get hit by the lightning.
KING: On Capitol Hill, the general who investigated the abuses said the blame lies with the soldiers directly involved, not in Washington.
TAGUBA: We didn't find any order whatsoever, sir, written or otherwise that directed them to do what they did.
KING: But administration critics are still focused higher up the chain of command. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: From the White House, John one story of course that's knocking some of the prisoner abuse story out of the headlines right now, this beheading video. What's the president's reaction to it?
KING: We are told that the White House, Anderson, condemns the heinous tactics of the terrorists. The administration also vowing to bring to justice the terrorists responsible for killing Mr. Berg.
The administration though says it will not be deterred from continuing to prosecute the war on terrorism and the White House also says on this evening, Anderson, its thoughts and prayers are with the Berg family.
COOPER: All right, John King thanks very much for that.
John Kerry also out on the campaign trail and that tops our look at stories right now "Cross Country."
Kerry meets with small business owners in Louisville, Kentucky, telling them his health care plan would help cover soaring costs. It's his first campaign stop in the Blue Grass State, which is holding its primaries next Tuesday.
Topeka, Kansas now, schools ordered closed. A judge tells public schools to close their schools this fall, keep them shut until the state fixes flaws in the Constitution that determine how they're funded. The Board of Education is appealing that ruling.
Boulder, Colorado now, U.C. football players off the hook. The state attorney general says he will not file charges after investigating the cases of at least eight women who claim they were raped at recruiting parties. He says there are evidence problems and some of the accusers aren't willing to go forward with the cases.
Elbert County, Colorado now, tornado clean-up, at least seven twisters touched down in rural areas knocking out power and destroying a farmhouse and barn. No injuries were reported.
Lansing, Michigan now, a familiar name running for office. John Ramsey has just announced he is running for the Michigan State House. Ramsey, of course, the father of Jon Benet Ramsey whose 1996 murder remains unsolved.
That's a look at stories "Cross Country" for you tonight.
A terrorist with a $10 million bounty on his head, was he the man responsible for murdering an American on video? Find out the motive and strategy of this killer on the run.
Plus, outrage over the outrage, is the Iraqi prison abuse story being overplayed? A look at the politics of the investigation that ahead.
And laying blame, are low-level soldiers being made scapegoats? We'll hear from both sides, all that ahead.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the Islamic Web site showing video of 26-year-old American Nicholas Berg being beheaded says the execution was carried out by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamic terrorist group and, while there's some question the killer on the tape really is Zarqawi, it wouldn't be impossible. Some call him the most dangerous terrorist in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The price tag on his head $10 million, testament to Zarqawi's chilling terrorist resume. The Jordanians have wanted to get their hands on him since 2000. They say he was behind plans to blow up this hotel and other tourist sites during the millennium.
By then Zarqawi was in Afghanistan building up his own terrorist group and allying himself with Osama bin Laden. When he left there, say intelligence sources, he was bankrolled by al Qaeda. The Jordanians say Zarqawi was the mastermind behind the assassination of U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley.
European intelligence sources say he's been linked to chemical weapons plots in Britain and France. Spanish investigators tied him more recently to the Madrid train bombings. And then there was the recently foiled massive plot to bomb Jordanian intelligence headquarters, possibly also with chemical weapons.
PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM ANALYST: From an operational standpoint, Zarqawi is more important than bin Laden, at least in the Middle East right now.
COOPER: Especially in Iraq where Zarqawi has been most active, claiming credit for attacks all over the country from Baghdad to Basra. A letter from Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden was intercepted earlier this year urging bin Laden to support his plan for starting a civil war in Iraq.
"If you agree with us on it," said the letter, "we will be your readied soldiers."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the videotape is just disgusting, disturbing. There's no doubt about it. We're not going to show you any more of the details of it but we do want to talk about it more and more the message of the video and the strategy behind releasing it.
Jim Walsh, an international security expert at Harvard University joins me now. Jim, good to see you. What do the terrorists want to do by releasing this video now? JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I think it has to be understood that every time we make a mistake in Iraq the Islamic extremists are going to seize that and try to use it for their own advantage and this is evidence A in that cause.
And what they've done is they've tried to do two things. First, they've tried to say to the Muslim and to the Arab community, look, the U.S. has done this awful stuff and I'm standing up to them. I'm going to take revenge on your behalf. He's trying to tap into the anger of the Muslim world and bring more recruits, more power to himself.
COOPER: They're very media savvy. I know in the past, you know, people say terrorism is theater. These guys know how to grab the stage.
WALSH: Absolutely. They may be murderers but they're not stupid and they know how to astutely take advantage of our weaknesses. It's clear that this fiasco with the prisons and the abuses is being on every television screen in the Arab and Muslim world.
It is feeding that anti-American sentiment and they are not wasting any time. They're seizing that opportunity and saying we're the ones who are standing up to the Americans and they hope, I think, by doing that to try to bring more recruits, more money, more political support for their cause.
COOPER: Interesting, though, that on the Web site they release the name Zarqawi saying that he was the person, the masked person there slitting the throat of this young American. Why would they add that detail?
WALSH: Anderson, that's a really good question and it makes one speculate and this is only speculation here but, as Peter Bergen pointed out in your report, Zarqawi is arguably more important than bin Laden right now.
While bin Laden is out avoiding capture in the frontier provinces of Pakistan, Zarqawi is executing operation after operation after operation. This may be his attempt to assert his own claim to the leadership mantle to say he's really the most important terrorist in the world today and that he is, in some sense, replacing bin Laden.
COOPER: Let me just play Devil's advocate here for a second because, you know, there have been just about every terrorist happening that has occurred in the last year or so has suddenly been linked to Zarqawi. Is it possible that people are just kind of naming him when they don't know who else to name?
WALSH: Absolutely. I mean he has been alleged to be -- to have been responsible from everything from bombing the Kurds, bombing the Shiite mosques, the attack in Spain, so on, so on, so on.
Maybe he's responsible for all of them. Maybe he's not. But insofar as we say he's responsible or he is responsible his reputation grows and then he acts on it. He really takes a page out of bin Laden's book by airing this videotape or having this videotape aired and is really personally asserting his role in this saying he is the one who is taking vengeance on behalf of Muslims and Arabs.
COOPER: I also, I read the transcript of what the man alleged to be Zarqawi was saying before they murdered Nicholas Berg and in it I was interested to see that he calls what happened in Fallujah, the Marines pulling back, a victory that clearly they got the message that that was a sign of U.S. American weakness.
WALSH: Well, this is one of those horrible dilemmas that the U.S. faces in Iraq. If you -- on the one hand if you're too aggressive and you go into suppress the insurgents, then you will alienate the majority but, if you pull back and try to resolve it diplomatically, then you'll be accused of being weak and they will take signs of weakness as an opportunity to assert themselves. It appears, at least for now, as if it's a no win situation but, again, we can expect more not less of this in the future.
COOPER: Yes, sad to say likely true though. Jim Walsh, thanks very much, always good to talk to you.
WALSH: Good to see you, Anderson.
COOPER: I want to check other stories right now in the global "Up Link." Let's take a look at what's going on.
In Gaza City, fierce fighting, Hamas militants displayed the remains of six Israeli soldiers killed by a roadside bomb. Seven Palestinians were killed in a battle. It started overnight when Israeli troops entered a Gaza City neighborhood to look for weapons workshops.
Glasgow, Scotland now, searching for survivors, at least four people were killed and 37 injured in a plastics factory explosion today. Rescuers working overnight trying to free survivors from the rubble.
In Mexico City, a different kind of air show and UFO fever. Look at what -- see what you're looking at? The Mexican Air Force releases this footage picked up by an infrared camera on a surveillance plane near the Gulf of Mexico.
It shows blobs of lights swirling around a plane, however in formation and darting into clouds. So far, scientists haven't weighed in on what the objects might be. The truth is out there, though.
That's tonight's "Up Link."
The politics of investigation, an outrage over the outrage. Politicians squaring off over Iraqi prison abuse.
Also tonight, the blame game, are U.S. soldiers, low level U.S. soldiers taking the fall for a policy gone awry? We'll hear from both sides on that. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The testimony of Major General Antonio Taguba before the Senate Committee investigating the Iraqi abuse scandal was overshadowed at times today by the politics on Capitol Hill. Though both President Bush and John Kerry were far from the proceedings, the race for the White House was definitely felt.
Here's CNN Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today's star witness was the non-political career officer whose explosive report exposed the prison abuse scandal.
TAGUBA: A few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international law and the Geneva Convention.
HENRY: But it didn't take long for presidential politics to flare up as one Republican mocked what he called humanitarian do- gooders who care more about the prisoners than American soldiers and charged that the Democrats are hyping the scandal for political gain.
SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: But I'm also outraged by the press and the politicians and the political agendas that are being served by this.
HENRY: Inhofe held up an online petition that was circulated by the Kerry campaign to get Secretary Rumsfeld fired.
INHOFE: And they say a solicitation for contributions.
HENRY: Democrats say it was not a fund-raising pitch and fired back that President Bush played politics by heading over to the Pentagon to give Secretary Rumsfeld another public vote of confidence.
SEN. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: The president looked at a dozen more pictures of abuse and reportedly shook his head in disgust but the apologies, regrets and mea culpas are now history. It's back to business as usual.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Anderson, under a bipartisan deal reached just moments ago, the Pentagon will deliver these new photos and videos demonstrating more prison abuses to the Senate on Wednesday afternoon. Senators will have only three hours to view this sensational material.
It will then be sent right back to the Pentagon so they have custody of it. The Pentagon will ultimately decide whether or not to release this sensational material.
And one interesting note is that House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter told CNN a short while ago that he's concerned that given the murder of this American hostage it might be an especially bad idea now to release these photos and videos because it could put more Americans in harm's way -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Ed Henry, thanks very much for that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): A savage slaying caught on tape, an American civilian beheaded by Iraqi terrorists. We'll look into a possible al Qaeda connection.
Military officials under oath testifying before Congress. Who knew what and when about abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison?
And, Kobe Bryant back in court and Scott Peterson denied a change of venue, the latest on two high profile trials, 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The Reset." Tonight's top stories.
We go first to Baghdad. An American beheaded. Video from an Islamic Web site shows the execution of this man, Nicholas Berg, a 26- year-old civilian from Pennsylvania. The Web site that aired his decapitation said that the beheading was carried out by Abu Musab al- Zarqawi and called it revenge for Iraqi prisoner abuse. We're going to have more on this in a moment.
Capitol Hill now. More Senate hearings into how the abuse happened. Today, Major General Antonio Taguba said it was caused by failures in leadership, training and discipline. But he also said military police who acted improperly did so of their own volition.
Washington now, going up before they come down. The government says gas prices won't peak until next month. They're expected to hit $2.03 a gallon nationwide by that time, 21 cents higher than previous estimates.
In Tacoma, Washington, that sticker shock prompted this massive protest. More than 200 logging trucks parked at the Tacoma Dome today. Drivers say the high cost of fuel is making it nearly impossible for them to work, insisting it could drive them out of business.
And Washington, D.C., more lifers on the inside. A new report says the number of prison inmates serving life sentences is up, get this, 83 percent since 1992. That is one in every 11 prisoners nationwide.
That's "The Reset" for you.
The murder of American Nicholas Berg videotaped and released on a Web site has shocked us all. Not that the killing is a surprise; the terrorist tactics are well known to us all. But the tape itself is sickening in its calculated brutality. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor is following the story.
David, the terrorists on this tape claim they're killing Berg in retaliation for Iraqi prisoner abuse. Do U.S. officials really buy that?
ENSOR: Not really, no, Anderson. On the Web site, a group claiming to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's gang shows this man, who identifies himself as the American Nick Berg, and a hooded terrorist then reads a statement in which he says then, quote, "the dignity of Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib prison and others is not redeemed except by blood." He speaks of the shameful photos being "evil humiliation for Muslim men and women in the Abu Ghraib prison," and refers to President Bush as, quote, "the dog of the West, whose worst days are coming."
But officials say that they do not believe that this was direct retaliation for the prison abuse. After all, Berg was taken prisoner back on April 9. They believe that the Zarqawi gang, if this is who's done it, are just trying to take advantage of a very negative propaganda situation for the United States. And they also say -- they also say that the speaker's claim that the U.S. refused to exchange Berg for other prisoners in Abu Ghraib, they say that is just not true.
COOPER: And in trying to link their cause with these terrible pictures of Iraqi prisoner abuse, I guess they're trying to sort of garner sympathy and get new recruits?
ENSOR: Well, that's right. And there will be those in the Middle East who will be more sympathetic to this kind of action because of these prisoner abuse photos. But officials say they think it's just trying to take advantage of that.
One other interesting note, on the Web site, there is the claim that this is actually Abu Musab Zarqawi who does the talking and the killing on the tape. But CNN Arabic linguists who have listened to the tape closely, and who know his voice from other tapes, say it's the wrong regional accent. The wrong part of Jordan, it couldn't be Zarqawi in their view.
COOPER: Interesting. All right, interesting development. David Ensor, thanks for that.
When the video first surfaced this afternoon, the Senate Armed Services Committee was hearing from the general who led the prison abuse investigation. General Antonio Taguba wrote the 53-page report which cited sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuse of some Iraqi prisoners. Some. Today on Capitol Hill, he summarized his findings. Here's a quick recap of today's testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The despicable actions described in General Taguba's report not only reek of abuse, they reek of an organized effort and methodical preparation for interrogation. MAJ. GEN. ANTONIO TAGUBA, U.S. ARMY: We did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did. I believe that they did it on their own volition.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: In simple words, your own soldiers' language, how did this happen?
TAGUBA: Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down. Lack of discipline. No training whatsoever. And no supervision. Supervisory omission was rampant.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Saddam Hussein is in our control. How would you feel if we sic dogs on him tomorrow?
TAGUBA: Sir, on Saddam Hussein?
GRAHAM: Yeah.
TAGUBA: Sir, we still have to follow the tenets of international law.
GRAHAM: As much as you and I dislike him, as mean a tyrant as he is and we know he'd kill us all tomorrow. I am so proud of you.
SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: These prisoners, they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents. Many of them probably have American blood on their hands. And here we're so concerned about the treatment of those individuals.
TAGUBA: At the end of the day, a few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international law, and the Geneva Convention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, joining me from Washington, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee who heard today's testimony, Democrat Evan Bayh. Senator Bayh, we appreciate you being on the program today.
You asked two very pertinent questions during the testimony today. And I'm not sure I understood the answers you got, and I want to come ask you about them. You asked basically, who controlled the prison? Because the undersecretary of defense testifying that military intelligence controlled the facility, but not the MPs inside it. Did you get that?
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: Sort of, Anderson. It's a level of obstruction that can make it understandable why the MPs would be confused. It was analogized to having the superintendent of a office building who was in charge of the physical structure, but not the people who worked in the office building.
I frankly found it to be unpersuasive. And the general found it to be unpersuasive, too. He concluded in his report that the MPs felt that they were under the influence, and to use the military term, the tactical control of the military intelligence personnel. And that's one of the things that contributed to the unfortunate behavior.
COOPER: What do you still need to learn that you don't know about what went on and why it happened?
BAYH: Well, there's an ongoing investigation about the role of the military intelligence there. We need to look into the role of the contractors there. And also see why the warnings of Ambassador Bremer and others were not heeded sooner in terms of rectifying the situation.
And, Anderson, so much of this goes back to the seeds of so many of the problems we're seeing in Iraq. The Pentagon simply failed to anticipate the magnitude of the challenge that we face there. So, this prison went from having 2,000 inmates to more than 6,000 or 7,000. They were understaffed. They were under a lot of pressure to get information out of the detainees. They faced attacks from without the prison, insurrections inside. There was just inadequate planning from the top on down. And I think we need to get answers to that.
COOPER: In your opinion, is it OK for MPs to set conditions? Because you had sort of different testimony today. Taguba said it's not OK under Army regulations for MPs to set conditions for interrogations. The Undersecretary Cambone said, yeah, maybe it is.
BAYH: Well, there's a line there, and a lot of blurring. Clearly they need to communicate with one another. And clearly the MPs are allowed to sort of listen, see who the detainees are talking to, hear the information they might have to provide. But in terms of the things that were done there, that was just so far over the line that anyone recognizes that's not permissible.
COOPER: Does this not go above the brigade level. Taguba said he had no evidence it went above the brigade level in terms of responsibility?
BAYH: Well, based upon the parameters that were placed upon his investigation it didn't go beyond the brigade level in his opinion.
COOPER: Because he was only looking at the MP side of it.
BAYH: That is correct. There's an ongoing investigation knew into the military intelligence side of things. And as I said, I think we need to look into why Ambassador Bremer's warnings and Secretary Powell's warnings weren't heeded sooner. And why the facility was so woefully understaffed. They put these MPs in there, undertrained, over populated and put them in a very difficult situation. It doesn't justify their behavior, but we need to understand why the preparation for all this was so inadequate.
COOPER: It was fascinating testimony today. Senator Evan Bayh, appreciate you being on the program. Thanks.
BAYH: Good to be with you.
Today's "Buzz" question is this for you, "Are U.S. goals in Iraq worth the cost?
What do you think. Log onto cnn.com/360. Right now cast your vote. We're going to have results in just a few moments at the end of the program.
Coming up the fallout over the prisoner abuse scandal. Coming up, who is responsible, and should Donald Rumsfeld resign?
We'll debate some of those questions just ahead.
Also his testimony was crystal clear but the name gave lawmakers plenty of trouble. Taking Taguba to "The Nth Degree." That's later on.
Also Kobe Bryant enters a formal plea, not guilty, 10 months after his alleged crime. We'll have a report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, a systematic failure in leadership. That's what Major General Antonio Taguba said led to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. But does that failure lead all the way up to the Pentagon.
My next guest thinks so. David Hackworth is a retired U.S. Army colonel, the author several books. A legend. We appreciate him being on the program. Thanks for being with us.
COL. DAVID HACKWORTH (RET.), U.S. ARMY: My pleasure.
COOPER: You think -- Taguba basically said this doesn't go above brigade level. But I was only looking at the military police side of this. You think the can of worms may be on the military intelligence side and that investigation is still on going.
HACKWORTH: It's definitely there. And I think his charter to just look at the MP side, was the kind of the old dodge game on the part of the army. We hope this will make it go away. But bottom line is, for example, just before I came on the show, I got a report from a military intelligence colonel, a guy that really is in the know, and he said that this system of abuse was organized, planned for, the top generals knew about it. The commanding general out there of military intelligence, General Fast knew about it, probably General Sanchez. And it probably went right up the line to the Pentagon.
COOPER: But let's just play devil's advocate. Today Taguba said Sanchez put out orders about what are the established guidelines, and these people down low weren't following those orders.
You don't buy that?
HACKWORTH: No, I don't. And the colonel also said that it was a program designed to instruct the military police by the military intelligence folks. And there was this thing that you mentioned earlier, who was in command?
You know, you can only have one captain of a ship. You can't have two. And if you and I were running that prison, look, buddy, Anderson are you running it or am I running it?
We'd be on the phone to Sanchez and say who's in charge here.
COOPER: Taguba said he found no evidence of actual paper orders saying military intelligence was in charge.
HACKWORTH: But he just looked at the military police side. I think once you dig in, and according to my source today, a very reliable source, he alleges that General Fast was very much involved in this. Even training films were made, and sent back to the intelligence school to be used for training. And that both the MPs and the military intelligence folks were told to ignore the Geneva Convention. It didn't count. So you can bet your boots there's a whole bunch more going to come out on this, and it's going to go all the way to the Pentagon.
COOPER: You've been in this story from the beginning. They came to you first to kind of get this information out there. You've done great reporting on it.
HACKWORTH: Only because a whole bunch of Congress folks didn't do their job.
COOPER: Colonel David Hackworth, always good to talk to you.
HACKWORTH: Good seeing you.
COOPER: Well, there are many people who probably disagree with Colonel Hackworth, insisting the Pentagon may not be to blame. One person who feels that way is Robert Maginnis, a retired army lieutenant colonel. He joins me now from Washington. Robert, thanks very much for being on the program.
You just heard what Colonel Hackworth said.
What do you think?
LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I don't know who his source us and I've certainly spoken to senior officials and others in Baghdad about this. I'm not hearing the same type of thing. We have a series of intensive investigations. The thing that you heard from Taguba was the 15-6 that looked at the brigade and below. So you wouldn't expect to look at something much higher than that.
COOPER: But why was he just asked to go and look at military police?
Why not asked to have a larger charter?
MAGINNIS: Because, Anderson, on the 13th of January when Sanchez received the allegation, it was about a bunch of soldiers in Abu Ghraib that were doing wrong. That's how we work with those types of investigations. Then as you find out more, you expand the investigation, which he didn't see necessary at the time. But there are six significant investigations across the entire systemic issues that are involved here. COOPER: And I'm particularly interested in this military intelligence investigation, because I think that's going to bear a lot of fruit.
But does it make sense to you just on a gut level, I mean, you spent a lot of time in the military, that military intelligence ran the facility but didn't have charge of the MPs inside it? I don't get it.
MAGINNIS: You saw the debate between Taguba and Cambone today. Obviously this issue of tactical control of the facility is of some question. I've heard Janis Karpinski and her mea culpas about what's going on there. She doesn't want to be blamed. But I'll tell you a brigadier general who really inside a facility, and if she doesn't know what's going on, there's something seriously wrong there. You know, yes there was competition between two commands. But, that just doesn't happen in the world that I'm familiar with within the United States Army in 2004. Maybe that was true in David Hackworth's day, back during the Vietnam era. That's not true today.
COOPER: But does it make sense that Karpinski and Pappas, who was in control, the person in charge of the military intelligence side, there was apparently friction between them. But why wasn't it clear who was in charge?
Senator Bayh, he's not even clear at this point who was in charge.
MAGINNIS: Well, you know, that is got to be reconciled somehow. The reality is that when brigadier generals are working to the, they draw the lines very clear so they know what their individual responsibilities are. Why in the world these two brigadiers couldn't work it out doesn't make any sense to me. I'm sure that that's one of the things we're going to need to get to the bottom.
COOPER: Retired Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis, appreciate you being on the program. Thanks. Good to talk to you.
Up next, Kobe Bryant goes from one court to another. Today the NBA star finally entered a plea. We'll have all the details on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for justice served. Scott Peterson's trial will stay right where it is. A judge in Redwood City, California, has denied a request to move the case to Los Angeles. The trial has already been moved once. But the defense wanted it moved again, citing concerns about juror bias. Not going to happen. In Colorado, meanwhile, Kobe Bryant pleads not guilty to sexual assault. Bryant was formally arraigned this afternoon nearly 11 months after his arrest. CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman is in Eagle, Colorado, with the latest. Good evening, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Anderson. Basketball superstar Kobe Bryant has finally said the words in court. He says he's not guilty of sexual assault. We expected the judge to say when the trial will be. Judge has to wait a couple of weeks to do that. But we have learned that it is expected to be this summer, most likely this August. Cameras were allowed into the arraignment, which was very brief.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TERRY RUCKRIEGEL, DISTRICT JUDGE: It carries a possible penalty of four years, up to life in the Department of Corrections, or 20 years up to life if probation is imposed pursuant to 18.1.3104. Also carries a possible fine of $3,000 to $750,000. Fine, jail, or both. Do you understand that charge?
KOBE BRYANT, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Yes, sir.
RUCKRIEGEL: How do you plead, not guilty or guilty?
BRYANT: Not guilty.
TUCHMAN: Bryant immediately flew to Los Angeles where his Lakers have a playoff game tonight against the San Antonio Spurs. The judge still has to make critical legal decisions such as will this woman's sexual history parts of it, be allowed into the trial. Will parts of her medical history be allowed to be discussed in the trial? He's already said no medical records in the trial but witnesses could be called to discuss her medical history. The woman did appear in court yesterday. The second time she's faced Kobe Bryant. We are not showing her face to protect her identity. She just wanted to observe. She left after less than two hours and was not here today for the arraignment. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman live in Eagle. Thank very much, Gary.
Time to check on some much lighter stuff and some pop news in tonight's current. A change of pace here. Starting next week a Louisville based company will be selling low-carb wines to dieters. The Brown Foreman company says the wine will sell for $9.99 and some in Chardonnay and Merlot. Perfect for drinkers counting carbs but we suspect after the second glass, who will care? Ice cream lovers beware. The biggest price hike ever is set for this summer. Much of it is reportedly due to rising dairy costs. Some have accused the cow cartel of making a secret deal for lower prices just before the election. The cartel says that is utterly false. Thank you. I'll be here all week.
Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton have apparently been feuding during the filming of the second season of "A Simple Life." Apparently editors are having a tough time making them look friendly. As for smart? There's only so much special effects can do.
Time now for the buzz. Earlier we asked you, "are U.S. goals in Iraq worth the cost?" And a high cost indeed. 27 percent of you said yes, 73 percent of you said no. Certainly not a scientific poll but it is your buzz. We appreciate you voting. Coming up, Major General Anthony -- see I did it. Antonio Taguba. Try to say that name yourself. Lawmakers had a tough time when quizzing him today. I knew I was going to mess that up. We're going to take that to the Nth Degree coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight taking three syllables to the Nth Degree. There's a universal agreement that the army major general who appeared today before the Senate committee looking into what happened at Abu Ghraib prison, the major general who was entrusted to write the report on that terrible business in the first place did an absolutely forthright job in that report of his. Performing without fear or favor. About that as we say there's agreement. About how to pronounce his name, however, there seems to be no agreement at all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tag-abu -- excuse me. I'm probably doing violence to your name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tag -- Taguba, I understand...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tab-uga -- I want to thank you for your...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Taguba, we want to -- I want to join others in commending you and thank you for the service...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Tagabu and -- Taguba and General Smith can clarify...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A name of six letters, three consonants each followed by a vowel and no consensus on how to say it. There's Washington for you. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching 360. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next.
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