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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Saddam Hussein Goes on Trial; One in ten Kids Encounters Some Kind of Inappropriate Sexual Behavior from School Employees

Aired July 01, 2004 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening again from Baghdad. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Iraq's former master in court, down but not out, and ready to fight.

360 starts now.

Genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity. Saddam Hussein finally faces an Iraqi judge. The dramatic scene inside the courtroom. CNN's Christiane Amanpour describes her firsthand view.

The man who will defend the tyrant lashes out at the proceedings. Our exclusive interview.

Do they have the power to change an election? Howard Stern and Michael Moore take on the White House.

And oops, she'll do it again. The inside scoop on Britney's second engagement.

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Iraq and Heidi Collins in New York.

COOPER: Good evening again.

There was a time when the billions of dollars he's believed to have siphoned from Iraq's oil money might have bought Saddam Hussein a cushy, comfortable retirement somewhere in the south of France. But for reasons unknown, he decided to stay and face the American onslaught. And now he'll face justice at the hands of the people he's accused of terrorizing for 25 years.

The road to justice will likely be long and may take years to play out. Today Saddam and Iraq and the world took the first step.

He arrived under heavy guard. The former dictator who'd been in captivity since he was found hiding in a hole last December seemed weak at first, but nevertheless defiant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Saddam was at times combative during his nearly 30- minute hearing, challenging the authority of the court and validity of the charges against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: So that I have to know, you are an investigative judge of the central court of Iraq. What law formed this court?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The judge read seven charges against Saddam, including the gassing of the Kurds in 1988 and the 1991 invasion of Kuwait.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: The army went to Kuwait, then it was an official matter. So how come a charge will be levied against somebody, an official, who's carry out their duties? How can you punish that person?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: While Iraqis watched the proceedings on television, 11 other former regime leaders heard charges against them as well, including former foreign minister Tariq Aziz and Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as Chemical Ali, the man believed to have ordered the gassing of the Kurds.

Iraq's new deputy foreign minister says those who were in charge need to be held accountable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMID AL-BAYATI, IRAQI INTERIM DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: We were collecting evidence in the last seven years to try Saddam and his aides. And we know the lawyers we consulted in London, back in London, and asked us to always to follow what we call chain of command, which means that orders to kill people should be connected to Saddam directly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: To say it was a historic day doesn't quite do it justice. It was remarkable and disturbing. It is extremely rare, of course, to have a front-row seat to history. Today CNN's own chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, had just that. She was among a handful of people inside the makeshift courtroom, an eyewitness to Saddam Hussein's first dose of Iraqi justice.

Here Christiane gives us a blow-by-blow account of his day, beginning with Hussein's first steps into the court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And he came in, and he was sort of helped into the chair by the guards. And he sat down, and he sort of leaned his arm against the chair, and he had his hand in his face, and sometimes his hand over his face, and sometimes looking down.

And he started to have this interaction with the judge. Saddam Hussein's voice, I was surprised, was quite weak. It was quite hoarse. Even when he tried to raise his voice, and jabbing his finger at the judge, and asking the judge under whose jurisdiction do you presume to be here, who are you, what is the legal basis for this court? He was gesticulating and gesturing with his hand.

One point he looked around to us, and he smiled, and he said, "This is all theater. The real criminal is Bush," he said, "to win his policies, to promote his campaign." But he kept saying Bush was the criminal, not him.

At one point he took out a piece of paper, yellow paper like this, from his jacket, from inside his jacket. He had a pen, and he was writing, while the judge was talking to the court reporters.

After the judge had finished talking to the court reporters, he announced, "Let it be known to this court that Saddam Hussein has acknowledged his name, his age, who he is, and that he understands what is going on," which was the first time he was asked whether he had a lawyer, whether he wanted a lawyer, or whether one should be provided for him.

When he was asked that, he basically again looked at us and sort of had a wry smile. And he said, "But don't the Americans, doesn't everybody say that I have millions of dollars hidden away in Geneva? Why shouldn't I be able to provide a lawyer for myself?"

So that -- he didn't have a lawyer, nor will -- nor do any of the others today. At that point Saddam said, "Is this finished?" The judge said yes, and in Arabic, Saddam said, "Halas (ph)," which means "finished," "the end," and he got up.

And he was a little unsteady, and one guard put his arm, you know, through his arm and really sort of supported him. The other guard, you could see, didn't quite know what to do. You know, this was still Saddam Hussein, and the guard sort of just kind of stood next to him, and they walked out.

But afterwards, when we asked the guards outside what they thought, I mean, there were a lot of thumbs-up, and people saying that they were happy.

So an extraordinary reversal of fortune, I suppose, is the understatement of what I can say here. Those people who had been so brutalized by him are now guarding him and basically the legal process will now define his fate.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Christiane Amanpour will join us live shortly later on 360 to talk more about some of those remarkable details that you didn't see on TV today.

Like millions of people around the world, President Bush watched the arraignment of Saddam Hussein on TV. But for the man who disarmed Iraq and dethroned its dictator, the reaction was somewhat restrained.

Senior White House correspondent John King reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president watched a snippet of news coverage but said nothing publicly about Saddam Hussein's dramatic day in court.

In New Orleans, the vice president recalled his last visit was on the day Saddam's statue was toppled.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, 15 months later, Saddam Hussein stands arraigned in an Iraqi court, where he will face the justice he denied to millions.

KING: The Iraqi tribunal accuses Saddam of atrocities against his people and of illegally invading Kuwait back in 1990. The vice president continued to press another charge many accuse the Bush administration of exaggerating, insisting the former Iraqi leader had long-standing ties to al Qaeda and its allies, including providing sanctuary to the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

CHENEY: The Iraqi regime refused to turn over Zarqawi even when twice being provided with detailed information about his presence in Baghdad.

KING: But Mr. Bush kept to his regular schedule by design. The White House calls the trial the business of the new Iraqi government and a chance for that government to prove its commitment to the rule of law.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is pleased that Saddam Hussein and his regime leaders are facing justice from the Iraqi people in an Iraqi court.

KING: Not that the White House presumes Saddam innocent until proven guilty.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for the systematic terrorizing, torture, killing, and raping of innocent Iraqis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: The administration flatly dismissed the former Iraqi president's charge that his trial was all theater designed to help the Bush reelection campaign. And Anderson, while the president made clear during the war he would lose no sleep if Saddam Hussein was killed in a U.S.-led attack, the White House now says the question of the death penalty is a decision to be made by the new Iraqi tribunal, Anderson.

COOPER: John King, thanks very much, from the White House tonight.

Baghdad, of course, a chaotic, noisy city, but today it seemed the streets fell silent as Iraqis watched their toppled tyrant on TV. And from the barber shop to the cafes to just about everywhere here in this city, the conversations were all about one man.

CNN's Brent Sadler reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad, they call it the trial of the century. This is act one. Iraqis glued to the proceedings, at their trial, that from the viewpoints of many, seems too fair.

"He'll never confess to his crimes," says Taha Majid (ph). "Forget this trial. It's better to execute him now."

The tape, played around the world, shows Saddam Hussein uncertain at first, then pouring scorn on the proceedings, rejecting charges of war crimes and genocide, trying to beat the system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): So that I have to know, you are an investigative judge of the central court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: An inaudible reply, but Saddam pounces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi that you are representing the occupying forces?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Hayda Hassan (ph) and his family wince at the verbal blows on the anonymous young judge. They're Shi'a Muslims, who claim they've lost seven relatives during Saddam's rule.

The courtroom drama is making them mad.

"What is this?" says Ali Hassan. "He doesn't look like a criminal. He's more like the judge."

(on camera): They were expecting to see images befitting a fallen despot cornered by the law, but instead they saw Saddam Hussein in court, casually dressed, powerless but still provocative. (voice-over): "The accused should not appear like this," says Hayda Hassan. "He should be wearing a prison suit and locked in a cage."

Brother Sahd (ph) Hassan is a recruit with the new Iraqi security forces. "He doesn't deserve this much respect. His supporters will be happy to see him in such good shape."

In Awja, Saddam's birthplace, some were carrying his framed picture and chanting in support of him.

And this was just the opening round of a long legal battle.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A long battle indeed.

A quick news note now. Just a few hours ago, for the first time, Jordan's King Abdullah said that he is willing to send troops to Iraq if Baghdad's interim government makes the request. Now, if that happens, Jordan would be the first Arab state with military forces here in Iraq. Abdullah's comments on the BBC really reflect a major change in his country's views on Iraq and will likely please members of the Bush administration.

360 next, he may be a despot, but he is no dummy. Saddam Hussein wants a lawyer, and he has already got an international team of them just waiting to start filing motions. I'll speak exclusively to one of Saddam's lawyers, find out why he is calling the entire process today illegal, illegitimate, and ill advised.

Also a little later tonight, Howard Stern and "Fahrenheit 9/11," pop culture hits hard on the campaign trail. That is definitely raw politics.

First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Even dictators know when to get a lawyer, and Saddam's lawyer isn't happy about today's proceedings. He says the former dictator is still the legal president of Iraq. I'll talk with him coming up on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When Saddam Hussein walked into that Iraqi courtroom this morning, a lot of legal ground was broken. In a country where he was the law, he now faces an uncertain legal future, and the rules here are still being made up.

Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saddam Hussein faced an Iraqi judge, but some question its substance.

JONATHON TEPPERMAN, "FOREIGN AFFAIRS" MAGAZINE: What we saw today was sort of a quasi-legal and a symbolic hearing.

UDOJI: The former president wasn't indicted by the Iraqi special tribunal. The special court, funded by $75 million U.S., merely laid out seven accusations of atrocities. The tribunal's evolving procedures, some say a confusing combination of Iraqi and international law.

DAVID SCHEFFER, FORMER AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR WAR CRIMES ISSUES: Lot of things that actually contradict criminal law in Iraq are in the statute.

UDOJI: Many analysts were surprised Saddam Hussein appeared without a lawyer. His wife hired a team of 20 he's not met. One of them was outraged.

TIM HUGHES, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S LAWYER (on phone): That's a fundamental right, and that's been denied.

MOUWAFFAK AL RUBAIE, IRAQI NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Saddam will be given every right to defend himself. Saddam will be given the right to appoint attorney for himself.

UDOJI: There are also questions about who will prosecute and judge his trial. The senior editor of "Foreign Affairs" magazine says staffing's not complete, that recruitment is tough, because insurgents are targeting law enforcement.

Who's gathering evidence, sifting through tens of thousands of documents, and rounding up witnesses?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI is leading the investigation, and I think it's getting help from the U.S. marshals and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, simply because they haven't found enough Iraqis who can lead a competent investigation.

UDOJI: The White House insists the U.S. is only supporting the new Iraqi government. But analysts warn the U.S. must be careful, saying there's a thin line between giving support and being seen as directing the proceedings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The heavier that the American hand sits on the shoulder of the Iraqi tribunal, the less legitimacy that this will have.

UDOJI: Legitimacy is crucial signal for the new government to prove they deserve the trust of the Iraqi people. No date has been set for Saddam's trial.

Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Here on 360, I'll bring you an exclusive interview with one of Saddam Hussein's lawyers, and he has got some very interesting things to say about today's proceedings. I'll give you a little hint, though, he is not happy he was not in the court.

Today's buzz this is. What do you think? Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings? Log onto CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. Results at the end of the program tonight.

We are covering Saddam Hussein from all the angles tonight. Coming up, we'll take you inside the proceeding. Hear from the former dictator himself, his tense exchange with the judge. Just who was in control of that courtroom?

Plus, she was one of the only reporters in the room, Christiane Amanpour joins us live.

But first, let's go back to Heidi Collins in New York for the day's other top stories. Hey, Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Anderson. Thanks so much.

360 next, a teen versus a gun maker. He was accidentally shot 10 years ago. Now this kid's making it his mission to drive the company responsible into the ground.

Also tonight, loudmouths on the campaign trail. Howard Stern and Michael Moore take on the White House. That's raw politics.

And a little later, Britney Spears pops the question. The teen idol takes control to land a man. Details of her exclusive interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Brandon Maxfield is a 17-year-old California teenager who has been paralyzed from the neck down for the last 10 years. He was shot with a Saturday night special by accident. Just last year, a California jury found the gun's manufacturer at fault.

Now, in a strange twist, the wounded teenager is mounting a very public effort to buy the bankrupt gun maker and drive it out of business for good.

Miguel Marquez explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRANDON MAXFIELD: I used to play baseball all the time. I wanted to be a baseball player when I grew up.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A little more than 10 years ago, a bullet, accidentally fired. turned then-7-year- old Brandon Maxfield from an aspiring ballplayer into a quadriplegic.

MAXFIELD: What happened to me is the past. There's nothing I can do about that. What matters is the future.

MARQUEZ: The future, says Maxfield, is to buy the now-defunct Bryco Arms and turn it into Brandon Arms. Maxfield would become the owner of the company that made the very pistol, a .380 semiautomatic, that discharged a bullet into his chin. Last year, in a suit against Bryco and its owner, Bruce Jennings, a jury found that the design of the safety device was defective and partially responsible for his injuries.

MAXFIELD: By the time I'm done I want this, that whole company to be leveled.

MARQUEZ: Maxfield says he wants to take the remaining 75,600 gun frames and parts in Bryco's Southern California warehouse and destroy them all.

MAXFIELD: Buy the company, and melt down the guns, get them off the streets.

RICHARD RUGGIERI, MAXFIELD'S LAWYER: It's empty. It's stopped working.

MARQUEZ: The problem, says Maxfield's lawyer, is that everything is tied up in the courts. Bryco went bankrupt the day after it lost a $24 million lawsuit. Less than $9 million has been paid, and Maxfield's lawyer estimates his client's lifetime medical bills will be around $11 million.

So Brandon Maxfield is now raising money to buy Bryco in bankruptcy court, hoping to outbid Bryco's former plant manager's offer of $150,000.

RUGGIERI: Our intention is to bid for the assets, to have the machinery and other assets that can be put into useful production sold off.

MARQUEZ (on camera): The court is only deciding who will buy the company, not whether it will manufacture guns. Ruggieri says if Bryco's former plant manager wins the bid, the company will be back in the gun making business. The plant manager didn't return our calls, and the company's former owner says he's contesting the award to the 17-year-old high school senior.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: A terror alert from the FBI. That tops our look at news cross-country now. Suicide bombers and assault teams could be some of the tactics employed against the U.S. this Fourth of July holiday. While there is no credible threat from al Qaeda, the FBI is warning police to be extra vigilant.

Some detainees at Guantanamo Bay may not need the Supreme Court's legal aid after all. That ruling allows detainees to challenge their detentions in court. Now the Pentagon is considering releasing some detainees early, provided they are not security risks.

A disturbing first from the medical world. The CDC in Atlanta says three people have died of rabies contracted from tainted transplanted organs. Now health officials are considering if all organs should be screened for the virus.

Cassini, proving to be the lord of rings as it orbits Saturn. The spacecraft is sending back its first clear images from the giant planet to scientists in Pasadena, California today. Scientists got a bonus, the sounds of Saturn as Cassini passed through its magnetic field.

And that's a look at stories cross-country and beyond tonight.

We'll call them media commandos. The makers of "Fahrenheit 9/11" said today they're putting together a SWAT team. The mission, be ready to respond on a moment's notice to what they're calling extremist attacks against the movie. Filmmaker Michael Moore isn't the only one saying he's taken heat from the Bush administration. Shock jock Howard Stern claims conservatives are trying to knock him off the airwaves.

As CNN's Jason Bellini reports, both men are fighting back. It's all part of raw politics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like him or not -- and he hasn't said either way -- Senator John Kerry has two controversial characters on his side. Shock jock Howard Stern and filmmaker Michael Moore are both on personal quests to take down President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now watch this drive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELLINI: Stern announced Wednesday he got nine more radio stations to carry his show. He calls it great news for him and John Kerry.

HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: John Kerry will receive more votes as a result of this.

BELLINI: Earlier this year, Clear Channel knocked Stern off six stations. He blames Bush supporters for giving him the boot.

STERN: If you notice, a lot of these markets are swing states. If you've read some of the recent surveys, our audience is full of independent voters. The research shows we're having an effect on the election.

BELLINI: Could Stern's potty mouth help elect Kerry? HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, CNN "RELIABLE SOURCES": Howard Stern could turn out to be John Kerry's secret weapon. He's got millions of listeners, many of them young men who ordinarily don't vote, who he is getting riled up against the president and the FCC.

BELLINI: "Fahrenheit 9/11" broke box office records for a documentary last weekend. Michael Moore hopes that means the country is on his side.

(on camera): But the big question is whether or not four months from now swing voters will be turned on or off by what Moore and Stern are saying.

KURTZ: The swing voters in the middle are probably not going to want to take any marching orders from them, but this election seems in part to be about firing up your base.

BELLINI: Win or lose, Stern and Moore will at least make for entertaining raw politics.

Jason Bellini, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: The dramatic scene inside the courtroom. CNN's Christian Amanpour describes her firsthand view.

The man who will defend the tyrant lashes out at the proceedings. Our exclusive interview.

And oops, she'll do it again. The inside scoop on Britney's second engagement.

ANNOUNCER: A special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Good evening. I'm Anderson Cooper in Baghdad.

It has been a remarkable day here. The man who ruled this country with an iron fist for 25 years sat before a judge today. A shadow of his former self, the deposed dictator was still at times unrepentant, argumentative, and imperious, challenging the authority of the court and the legitimacy of the charges against him, lecturing the judge at times and continuing to refer to himself as the president of Iraq.

He called president Bush the real criminal and refused to sign documents laying out the seven charges against him, saying he had no lawyer. He began by stating his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq.

1937.

Profession? Former president of the republic of Iraq, no, present. It's the will of the people.

When I say president of the Republic of Iraq, it's not -- it's not a formality or holding fast to a position, but rather to reiterate to the Iraqi people that I respect its will.

I hope that you remember you are a judge empowered by the people. It doesn't really matter whether you convict me or not, that's not what's important. What's important is that you remember that you are a judge,

Then don't -- don't mention anything occupying forces. You were notified that you -- I have lawyers, right? Am I not supposed to meet with the lawyers before I come before you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was just some of Saddam Hussein. Eleven other former top lieutenants of Saddam also were in court today hearing charges against them. CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour was just one of a handful of people to be in the courtroom when Hussein was arraigned. She joins me now. Thanks for being with us. What surprised you most today?

AMANPOUR: Well, I think I was most surprised by his appearance. Everybody was sitting on the edge of their seat riveted as to what to expect. The pictures have not yet been released, I don't think, of him coming into the court. He was a thin-looking man, he was quite tall, but to me he looked broken at that early moment. He came in with two big burly guards, one on each side of him. They led him to the chair. He sat down quite heavily. He looked tired. He looked a little bit like what am I doing here. It wasn't until he started talking to the judge that he became more animated. I think despite the way it's always being portrayed that he was very defiant, he was. He was challenging the judge, but in my view the judge was in control the whole time.

COOPER: It's interesting because some of the images on TV do make it look as if he was in control. But you're saying the mood, once you're actually there, it seemed different than it appears on TV.

AMANPOUR: Yes, because he has the advantage of the way we were told to shoot this. The camera is directly on him, you can see all his expressions, you can see his hand gestures. You can't see the judge. We weren't allowed to see the judge, except a little bit, three-quarters from the back.

We were told that none of the Iraqis wanted their identities shown for the reasons that we all know, that they're targets, that this is a sensitive trial. But I was very impressed by the way he was cool, he was -- look, he's not even 40 years old. This is a big trial for him, although he's not judging it right now, he's just the investigative judge, and there he is sitting in front of what has been one of the most terrifying men and who knew what might happen. I know that he was nervous about whether there would be an outburst, whether there would be any attempt to physically disrupt what was going on. There were guards all outside. American military were outside too just in case something went wrong. But I thought the exchange was quite reasonable.

Even though Saddam Hussein was -- kept asking questions, this, in fact, was his opportunity to ask questions. We were told yesterday that when they transferred legal custody, he asked could he ask questions the day before and they said no, wait until court. So the judge had allocated 30 minutes in order for Saddam Hussein to ask him questions for him to explain, and I must say I was impressed by the judge's command of the situation.

COOPER: You also had a chance to interact with some of the guards who brought him in. That must have been a remarkable experience for them, suddenly taking this man who had been a dictator here.

AMANPOUR: It looked like the Iraqi system had found the biggest guards they could possibly find just in case. You could tell that the guards -- this was a major reversal of fortune here, and they came in and they moved to each corner of the room because they also didn't want to be shown on camera. But they were looking so intently the whole time he was talking to the judge, they were back and forth but really looking at him like just how can this be happening, how can we be witnessing this. They were amazed by what they were seeing.

And then it was only afterwards when we all went out, when Saddam Hussein had been taken away, back on the chopper, back to American detention, they -- when we came out they went yes, we're happy. You could feel that. One of the assistants, the Iraqi assistants, to a government minister who was there, almost had to be dragged in. Her boss told me that she was really scared. She didn't know, would he still be able to put her in jail or something.

COOPER: Fascinating.

AMANPOUR: So, yes, the Iraqi reaction was very interesting in there.

COOPER: It is remarkable day and you have done remarkable work. Thanks for being with us.

Saddam Hussein was told in court today that he could have a lawyer, but he didn't have one yet. That fact has outraged a group of attorneys hired by Hussein's family to represent him. Earlier in an exclusive interview by phone I spoke with British lawyer Tim Hughes who is one of the men who will be defending the deposed dictator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: What is your argument going to be based on? What is the core of your argument?

TIM HUGHES, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S LAWYER: There are two main submissions. The first one is that the regime of Saddam Hussein was overthrown by an illegal invasion of the Iraq sovereign state by the coalition forces. And that the current Iraqi government which seeks to put Saddam Hussein on trial is a government put in place by a coalition which had seized the power of the country on an illegitimate bases.

Therefore, we do not recognize on Saddam Hussein's behalf that he is no longer the president of Iraq. He said yesterday when the charges were put to him in private that he remains the president and he repeated that again today in court.

The second point is that it is not possible in terms of natural justice for there to be a fair trial of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. The Iraqi judges and the Iraqi system in terms of the arrangements for justice in the country now with the interim government have all been put in place following the handover from the coalition. Therefore, the appointments are all of a political nature. That's not fair, that's not open and that's not justice.

COOPER: How concerned are you that Saddam Hussein has not had access to an attorney thus far?

HUGHES: It's very concerning. And the situation is deplorable. He was arrested in mid-December 2003. Mohammad Al-Rajdan (ph) has been contacting the authorities in America, requesting him to be given the right to legal advice and those requests have all fallen on deaf ears. We had hoped that the Iraqi government may have been advised perhaps by the coalition forces at the time of the handover, to do its very best to ensure that the criticism which it should have foreseen about the process not being fair and open could have been addressed by him being represented today in court, but as you saw he was put before the court in what was clearly an example of the type of show trial we can expect in the future. He was put before the court without legal representation which clearly was unacceptable.

COOPER: Why are you representing Saddam Hussein? There are those who say, look, this is a man who murdered people, who chopped off people's hands, who ruled by -- by brutal decree for years, for generations here. There are a lot of Iraqis here who suddenly see him now hiding behind attorneys such as yourself and it makes them frankly sick. How do you respond?

HUGHES: Well, the response may sound flat, but I'm afraid I'm going to assert the fundamental human right of all citizens, and that is, that when you face, as a citizen of a country, an allegation in a court of law, then the first right you should have is to be represented.

COOPER: Do you give any credit to the new Iraqi government for attempting to do this, whether or not they did it to the best of their ability, but attempting to do this in some sort of fair and open way? I mean, do you think that they are just categorically doing this the wrong way?

HUGHES: I think that a fundamental mistake was made today in parading him in front of the cameras in a set of proceedings in which he was unrepresented. That sent the wrong message from the very first hearing. That sent a message that the Iraqi government is more interested in trying to prove its legitimacy to the Iraqi people, rather than to achieve justice in the case of Saddam Hussein. And that was a missed opportunity today. It should have been dealt with on a more formal footing. He should have been represented legally, and it's, I'm afraid, something which has caused the whole of the legal team grave concern. He should have been represented. He was not. And that's wrong.

COOPER: Tim Hughes, thank you very much for joining us.

HUGHES: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Let's talk about this argument with CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, as I relistened to that interview, I hear the lawyer talking about a lot of procedural issues, not really going to the heart of the actual case against Saddam Hussein.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You can be sure that you will hear virtually nothing, but procedural arguments from the defense here. What he wants to talk about, and what Saddam Hussein was talking about in court today was, is this proceeding legitimate? Was the invasion of his country a legal act by the United States?

What the Iraqi authorities and the American authorities behind them are going to try very hard to do, is to change the subject to the substantive charges. Did he gas the Kurds? Did he murder his political opponents? That's what they want this trial to be about, not their legitimacy. But that struggle is not only not over, it's just beginning.

COOPER: Well, how does that struggle play out? I mean, can't the Iraqi court just say look, we are legitimate, these are the issues, these are the charges, defend yourself against them?

TOOBIN: Well, that's what they're going to try to do, I assume. But remember all the procedural rules are up for grabs here, or almost all of them. You know, Saddam Hussein and his lawyers are going to demand to be heard. They are going to say, this is unfair that we are not going to be allowed to raise arguments A, B, C. So it's going to be difficult.

This trial doesn't just have to be fair, it has to appear to be fair. If the Iraqi authorities who are trying him are constantly shutting him up are denying him the opportunity to make arguments, that's going to be a difficult public relations problem. And public relations, I don't say this in any critical way, is a critical part of how this trial is going to unfold.

COOPER: And that public relations battle began today as well as the court proceedings beginning today. Jeffrey Toobin thanks very much.

TOOBIN: OK, Anderson. Come home safe. COOPER: OK.

Today's "Buzz" is this, "Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings?" What do you think? Log on to CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of the program tonight.

Now, let's go back to New York and some of the day's other headlines from Heidi Collins.

Hey, Heidi.

COLLINS: Hey, Anderson. Thanks.

Next on 360, sexual misconduct in the classroom. Is your child a victim? Surprising research.

Plus, the Britney Spears' bombshell on her engagement. The pop princess tells all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: A new report for the U.S. Department of Education shows some shocking numbers on the dangers children face at school. It suggests one in ten kids encounters some kind of inappropriate sexual behavior from school employees. And that's not just teachers, but coaches and bus drivers too.

Earlier I spoke with Charol Shakeshaft, a professor at the Hofstra University's School of Education. She's the author of the study.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Tell us why these numbers are so high?

CHAROL SHAKESHAFT, HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY: I don't know why the numbers are so high. The one in ten includes kids who report that they've been physically sexually touched, forced to kiss a teacher or another employee, pushed into a corner, had their clothes taken off or raped, but it also includes kids who have been shown sexualized or pornographic pictures, sent e-mails, talked to on the telephone, told sexual stories.

COLLINS: What type of situations, though, and maybe what types of students if there is a student, a typical student who gets involved or finds themselves in these type of situations, can you explain that to us a little bit?

SHAKESHAFT: Sure. Students who are more likely to be targeted are vulnerable students. Students who might have special learning needs, might have physical or emotional disability is. Minority students are more likely to be targeted than are white students. Girls are more likely to be targeted than boys, although not a lot more likely.

COLLINS: Why does it go unreported, though?

SHAKESHAFT: First, kids don't report. About 70 percent of the kids who were targets of educator sexual misconduct reported they didn't tell anybody but a friend. But a second reason is because adults don't pick up on the signs. They don't question a counselor or a teacher or a coach who takes children from school, takes them in their cars, things they've heard about or seen that indicate some kind of boundary crossing and those aren't followed up on.

COLLINS: What is this about? Is it about power?

SHAKESHAFT: Part of it is power, part of it is opportunism, part is lack of judgment, boundaries, understanding the role of the teacher. Especially this is true for teachers or coaches or others with kids who are older.

COLLINS: You know you have come under some criticism here for this report. I want to go ahead and read a quote here if I could from the Concerned Women for America and get your response. The group says, "this report consists of sensational finding based on shoddy scholorship. It trashes teachers in general, and in the process, minimizes the tragedy of those pedophiles who go into teaching in order to prey on children." Your response to that?

SHAKESHAFT: Well, this report is a report that was asked for by Congress. They wanted me to review what research is out there by many researchers. I looked at over 900 studies, I synthesized the findings and reported what the research has shown.

If the research is shoddy, what I would say is let's have better research. If the findings are inaccurate, what I would ask the critics to do is give me findings that are accurate.

COLLINS: All right. Charol Shakeshaft, we certainly appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: From pop diva to domestic goddess: Just ahead, Britney Spears on love and marriage and why she says this trip down the aisle is the real thing.

Also tonight, the man of many faces taking the evolution of Saddam Hussein to "The Nth Degree."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: So what if he's got a 2-year-old daughter and ex- girlfriend is pregnant, the man Britney Spears proposed really stole her heart. I kissed a bunch of frogs she says in a revealing interview in tomorrow's "People" magazine and finally found my prince. For more on the engagement, the wedding plans and how love won over the diva I'm joined now by Jess Cagle, senior editor at "People" magazine.

Boy, this is big time news. She popped the question. JESS CAGLE, SENIOR EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: She popped the question to him. They had met in April, last April. He had gone on tour with her. By early June they were on a flight from Europe coming back to New York and she suddenly said, you know, "will you marry me," and he said no.

COLLINS: No. What's up with that?

CAGLE: He said -- he said no because he thought maybe the guy should ask the girl and so a minute later he turned around and asked her the question and she said yes.

COLLINS: OK. So now we apparently are engaged. All right.

CAGLE: Yes.

COLLINS: Now, they really only have been dating for three months.

CAGLE: Yes.

COLLINS: And given the length of that other marriage that happened so quickly, do they feel like they're rushing into things.

CAGLE: She does not feel like she is rushing into things. She says -- she told people she was surprised that she suddenly found herself thinking about marriage, because the last experience when she had a quickly marriage in Las Vegas to a friend of hers...

COLLINS: Does she remember that?

CAGLE: She does remember it and I think she was a little embarrassed by it. She says it was a total, ugh. You know, she was not in love with that guy, they were just in Vegas, they got crazy. And then she decided, well, you know what, I don't care what people think. I'm going to live my life the way I want to live it, and if I want to marry this guy then I'm going to do it.

COLLINS: All right, now she has talked about being Suzie Homemaker.

Does she really enjoy the cooking and cleaning?

CAGLE: She says that she really enjoys cooking and cleaning. She had a knee injury a while back and she had to cancel the tour, so she's been kind of laid up, she hasn't been able to get out and move around a lot. She's very much in love with this guy. And she says that she enjoys cooking and cleaning and making a home. I suspect she'll get over that really quickly.

COLLINS: I suspect she probably will too. OK. But now to the question that everybody is really wondering, some people have noticed that she's put on some weight. They've been asking questions about that.

In fact, the main question, is she pregnant? CAGLE: She says that she's not pregnant. She says she does plan to get pregnant and she says she wants to have four or five kids. As far as the weight gain, she says this, which I found kind of refreshing, she says, you know, it's normal for a young woman to gain weight now and then. She said, just because you gain weight doesn't means there there's something wrong or that you're pregnant, maybe it just means you're content. Time will tell about the pregnancy.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, that's a pretty mature thing to say.

CAGLE: Considering what other pop starlets are going through right now, I think it's a good thing for young women to hear actually.

COLLINS: What does her mom think about this?

CAGLE: Her mom is being very supportive. Her mom says, she thinks she and -- that Britney and Kevin have great karma together, that they're a good fit and so she's being supportive.

COLLINS: It's amazing what sort of karma can develop in three months. All right, Jeff, thanks so much, we certainly do appreciate your time tonight.

And now back to Anderson Cooper coming to us live from Baghdad once again -- Anderson.

COOPER: Heidi, thanks very much.

A man that Britney Spears probably knows nothing about, Saddam Hussein and the face of survival. We take to that to "The Nth Degree," ahead.

First today's "Buzz," should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings?

Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote, results in just a moment when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. 1937. Profession, former president of the Republic of Iraq, now present.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Saddam Hussein speaking without attorney present. Earlier we asked you "The Buzz" question, "Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings, more than 17,000 of you voted; 76 percent said, yes, 24 percent said, no. Not a scientific poll, of course, just your "Buzz."

Tonight taking survival to "The Nth Degree." Iraq has a long history of political repression that started long before Saddam Hussein ever gained power. In fact, in many ways he was formed by it. Through his 20s and 30s he survived and thrived in an era of continuous political upheaval here, coups and counter coups, assassinations, murders. Twenty-five years ago this month at the age of 42, Saddam took power. His first act, a purge of Ba'ath party officials and members of the military, hundreds were killed. He was just getting start.

In years that followed Saddam invaded neighbors, massacred his own people, murdered political opponents. Around every corner he saw enemies, he'd kill first and ask questions later. Two of his victims, his son-in-laws. Saddam, survived two U.S. bombing campaigns only to be found hiding in a hole. Today he may have begun the process of facing justice for crimes against his countrymen, but let's not forget Saddam Hussein is smart and dangerous and a survivor and no one should count him out just yet. That's 360 from Baghdad. I'm Anderson Cooper, thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 1, 2004 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening again from Baghdad. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Iraq's former master in court, down but not out, and ready to fight.

360 starts now.

Genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity. Saddam Hussein finally faces an Iraqi judge. The dramatic scene inside the courtroom. CNN's Christiane Amanpour describes her firsthand view.

The man who will defend the tyrant lashes out at the proceedings. Our exclusive interview.

Do they have the power to change an election? Howard Stern and Michael Moore take on the White House.

And oops, she'll do it again. The inside scoop on Britney's second engagement.

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Iraq and Heidi Collins in New York.

COOPER: Good evening again.

There was a time when the billions of dollars he's believed to have siphoned from Iraq's oil money might have bought Saddam Hussein a cushy, comfortable retirement somewhere in the south of France. But for reasons unknown, he decided to stay and face the American onslaught. And now he'll face justice at the hands of the people he's accused of terrorizing for 25 years.

The road to justice will likely be long and may take years to play out. Today Saddam and Iraq and the world took the first step.

He arrived under heavy guard. The former dictator who'd been in captivity since he was found hiding in a hole last December seemed weak at first, but nevertheless defiant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Saddam was at times combative during his nearly 30- minute hearing, challenging the authority of the court and validity of the charges against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: So that I have to know, you are an investigative judge of the central court of Iraq. What law formed this court?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The judge read seven charges against Saddam, including the gassing of the Kurds in 1988 and the 1991 invasion of Kuwait.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: The army went to Kuwait, then it was an official matter. So how come a charge will be levied against somebody, an official, who's carry out their duties? How can you punish that person?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: While Iraqis watched the proceedings on television, 11 other former regime leaders heard charges against them as well, including former foreign minister Tariq Aziz and Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as Chemical Ali, the man believed to have ordered the gassing of the Kurds.

Iraq's new deputy foreign minister says those who were in charge need to be held accountable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMID AL-BAYATI, IRAQI INTERIM DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: We were collecting evidence in the last seven years to try Saddam and his aides. And we know the lawyers we consulted in London, back in London, and asked us to always to follow what we call chain of command, which means that orders to kill people should be connected to Saddam directly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: To say it was a historic day doesn't quite do it justice. It was remarkable and disturbing. It is extremely rare, of course, to have a front-row seat to history. Today CNN's own chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, had just that. She was among a handful of people inside the makeshift courtroom, an eyewitness to Saddam Hussein's first dose of Iraqi justice.

Here Christiane gives us a blow-by-blow account of his day, beginning with Hussein's first steps into the court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And he came in, and he was sort of helped into the chair by the guards. And he sat down, and he sort of leaned his arm against the chair, and he had his hand in his face, and sometimes his hand over his face, and sometimes looking down.

And he started to have this interaction with the judge. Saddam Hussein's voice, I was surprised, was quite weak. It was quite hoarse. Even when he tried to raise his voice, and jabbing his finger at the judge, and asking the judge under whose jurisdiction do you presume to be here, who are you, what is the legal basis for this court? He was gesticulating and gesturing with his hand.

One point he looked around to us, and he smiled, and he said, "This is all theater. The real criminal is Bush," he said, "to win his policies, to promote his campaign." But he kept saying Bush was the criminal, not him.

At one point he took out a piece of paper, yellow paper like this, from his jacket, from inside his jacket. He had a pen, and he was writing, while the judge was talking to the court reporters.

After the judge had finished talking to the court reporters, he announced, "Let it be known to this court that Saddam Hussein has acknowledged his name, his age, who he is, and that he understands what is going on," which was the first time he was asked whether he had a lawyer, whether he wanted a lawyer, or whether one should be provided for him.

When he was asked that, he basically again looked at us and sort of had a wry smile. And he said, "But don't the Americans, doesn't everybody say that I have millions of dollars hidden away in Geneva? Why shouldn't I be able to provide a lawyer for myself?"

So that -- he didn't have a lawyer, nor will -- nor do any of the others today. At that point Saddam said, "Is this finished?" The judge said yes, and in Arabic, Saddam said, "Halas (ph)," which means "finished," "the end," and he got up.

And he was a little unsteady, and one guard put his arm, you know, through his arm and really sort of supported him. The other guard, you could see, didn't quite know what to do. You know, this was still Saddam Hussein, and the guard sort of just kind of stood next to him, and they walked out.

But afterwards, when we asked the guards outside what they thought, I mean, there were a lot of thumbs-up, and people saying that they were happy.

So an extraordinary reversal of fortune, I suppose, is the understatement of what I can say here. Those people who had been so brutalized by him are now guarding him and basically the legal process will now define his fate.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Christiane Amanpour will join us live shortly later on 360 to talk more about some of those remarkable details that you didn't see on TV today.

Like millions of people around the world, President Bush watched the arraignment of Saddam Hussein on TV. But for the man who disarmed Iraq and dethroned its dictator, the reaction was somewhat restrained.

Senior White House correspondent John King reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president watched a snippet of news coverage but said nothing publicly about Saddam Hussein's dramatic day in court.

In New Orleans, the vice president recalled his last visit was on the day Saddam's statue was toppled.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, 15 months later, Saddam Hussein stands arraigned in an Iraqi court, where he will face the justice he denied to millions.

KING: The Iraqi tribunal accuses Saddam of atrocities against his people and of illegally invading Kuwait back in 1990. The vice president continued to press another charge many accuse the Bush administration of exaggerating, insisting the former Iraqi leader had long-standing ties to al Qaeda and its allies, including providing sanctuary to the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

CHENEY: The Iraqi regime refused to turn over Zarqawi even when twice being provided with detailed information about his presence in Baghdad.

KING: But Mr. Bush kept to his regular schedule by design. The White House calls the trial the business of the new Iraqi government and a chance for that government to prove its commitment to the rule of law.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is pleased that Saddam Hussein and his regime leaders are facing justice from the Iraqi people in an Iraqi court.

KING: Not that the White House presumes Saddam innocent until proven guilty.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for the systematic terrorizing, torture, killing, and raping of innocent Iraqis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: The administration flatly dismissed the former Iraqi president's charge that his trial was all theater designed to help the Bush reelection campaign. And Anderson, while the president made clear during the war he would lose no sleep if Saddam Hussein was killed in a U.S.-led attack, the White House now says the question of the death penalty is a decision to be made by the new Iraqi tribunal, Anderson.

COOPER: John King, thanks very much, from the White House tonight.

Baghdad, of course, a chaotic, noisy city, but today it seemed the streets fell silent as Iraqis watched their toppled tyrant on TV. And from the barber shop to the cafes to just about everywhere here in this city, the conversations were all about one man.

CNN's Brent Sadler reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad, they call it the trial of the century. This is act one. Iraqis glued to the proceedings, at their trial, that from the viewpoints of many, seems too fair.

"He'll never confess to his crimes," says Taha Majid (ph). "Forget this trial. It's better to execute him now."

The tape, played around the world, shows Saddam Hussein uncertain at first, then pouring scorn on the proceedings, rejecting charges of war crimes and genocide, trying to beat the system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): So that I have to know, you are an investigative judge of the central court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: An inaudible reply, but Saddam pounces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi that you are representing the occupying forces?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Hayda Hassan (ph) and his family wince at the verbal blows on the anonymous young judge. They're Shi'a Muslims, who claim they've lost seven relatives during Saddam's rule.

The courtroom drama is making them mad.

"What is this?" says Ali Hassan. "He doesn't look like a criminal. He's more like the judge."

(on camera): They were expecting to see images befitting a fallen despot cornered by the law, but instead they saw Saddam Hussein in court, casually dressed, powerless but still provocative. (voice-over): "The accused should not appear like this," says Hayda Hassan. "He should be wearing a prison suit and locked in a cage."

Brother Sahd (ph) Hassan is a recruit with the new Iraqi security forces. "He doesn't deserve this much respect. His supporters will be happy to see him in such good shape."

In Awja, Saddam's birthplace, some were carrying his framed picture and chanting in support of him.

And this was just the opening round of a long legal battle.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A long battle indeed.

A quick news note now. Just a few hours ago, for the first time, Jordan's King Abdullah said that he is willing to send troops to Iraq if Baghdad's interim government makes the request. Now, if that happens, Jordan would be the first Arab state with military forces here in Iraq. Abdullah's comments on the BBC really reflect a major change in his country's views on Iraq and will likely please members of the Bush administration.

360 next, he may be a despot, but he is no dummy. Saddam Hussein wants a lawyer, and he has already got an international team of them just waiting to start filing motions. I'll speak exclusively to one of Saddam's lawyers, find out why he is calling the entire process today illegal, illegitimate, and ill advised.

Also a little later tonight, Howard Stern and "Fahrenheit 9/11," pop culture hits hard on the campaign trail. That is definitely raw politics.

First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Even dictators know when to get a lawyer, and Saddam's lawyer isn't happy about today's proceedings. He says the former dictator is still the legal president of Iraq. I'll talk with him coming up on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When Saddam Hussein walked into that Iraqi courtroom this morning, a lot of legal ground was broken. In a country where he was the law, he now faces an uncertain legal future, and the rules here are still being made up.

Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saddam Hussein faced an Iraqi judge, but some question its substance.

JONATHON TEPPERMAN, "FOREIGN AFFAIRS" MAGAZINE: What we saw today was sort of a quasi-legal and a symbolic hearing.

UDOJI: The former president wasn't indicted by the Iraqi special tribunal. The special court, funded by $75 million U.S., merely laid out seven accusations of atrocities. The tribunal's evolving procedures, some say a confusing combination of Iraqi and international law.

DAVID SCHEFFER, FORMER AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR WAR CRIMES ISSUES: Lot of things that actually contradict criminal law in Iraq are in the statute.

UDOJI: Many analysts were surprised Saddam Hussein appeared without a lawyer. His wife hired a team of 20 he's not met. One of them was outraged.

TIM HUGHES, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S LAWYER (on phone): That's a fundamental right, and that's been denied.

MOUWAFFAK AL RUBAIE, IRAQI NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Saddam will be given every right to defend himself. Saddam will be given the right to appoint attorney for himself.

UDOJI: There are also questions about who will prosecute and judge his trial. The senior editor of "Foreign Affairs" magazine says staffing's not complete, that recruitment is tough, because insurgents are targeting law enforcement.

Who's gathering evidence, sifting through tens of thousands of documents, and rounding up witnesses?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI is leading the investigation, and I think it's getting help from the U.S. marshals and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, simply because they haven't found enough Iraqis who can lead a competent investigation.

UDOJI: The White House insists the U.S. is only supporting the new Iraqi government. But analysts warn the U.S. must be careful, saying there's a thin line between giving support and being seen as directing the proceedings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The heavier that the American hand sits on the shoulder of the Iraqi tribunal, the less legitimacy that this will have.

UDOJI: Legitimacy is crucial signal for the new government to prove they deserve the trust of the Iraqi people. No date has been set for Saddam's trial.

Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Here on 360, I'll bring you an exclusive interview with one of Saddam Hussein's lawyers, and he has got some very interesting things to say about today's proceedings. I'll give you a little hint, though, he is not happy he was not in the court.

Today's buzz this is. What do you think? Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings? Log onto CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. Results at the end of the program tonight.

We are covering Saddam Hussein from all the angles tonight. Coming up, we'll take you inside the proceeding. Hear from the former dictator himself, his tense exchange with the judge. Just who was in control of that courtroom?

Plus, she was one of the only reporters in the room, Christiane Amanpour joins us live.

But first, let's go back to Heidi Collins in New York for the day's other top stories. Hey, Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Anderson. Thanks so much.

360 next, a teen versus a gun maker. He was accidentally shot 10 years ago. Now this kid's making it his mission to drive the company responsible into the ground.

Also tonight, loudmouths on the campaign trail. Howard Stern and Michael Moore take on the White House. That's raw politics.

And a little later, Britney Spears pops the question. The teen idol takes control to land a man. Details of her exclusive interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Brandon Maxfield is a 17-year-old California teenager who has been paralyzed from the neck down for the last 10 years. He was shot with a Saturday night special by accident. Just last year, a California jury found the gun's manufacturer at fault.

Now, in a strange twist, the wounded teenager is mounting a very public effort to buy the bankrupt gun maker and drive it out of business for good.

Miguel Marquez explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRANDON MAXFIELD: I used to play baseball all the time. I wanted to be a baseball player when I grew up.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A little more than 10 years ago, a bullet, accidentally fired. turned then-7-year- old Brandon Maxfield from an aspiring ballplayer into a quadriplegic.

MAXFIELD: What happened to me is the past. There's nothing I can do about that. What matters is the future.

MARQUEZ: The future, says Maxfield, is to buy the now-defunct Bryco Arms and turn it into Brandon Arms. Maxfield would become the owner of the company that made the very pistol, a .380 semiautomatic, that discharged a bullet into his chin. Last year, in a suit against Bryco and its owner, Bruce Jennings, a jury found that the design of the safety device was defective and partially responsible for his injuries.

MAXFIELD: By the time I'm done I want this, that whole company to be leveled.

MARQUEZ: Maxfield says he wants to take the remaining 75,600 gun frames and parts in Bryco's Southern California warehouse and destroy them all.

MAXFIELD: Buy the company, and melt down the guns, get them off the streets.

RICHARD RUGGIERI, MAXFIELD'S LAWYER: It's empty. It's stopped working.

MARQUEZ: The problem, says Maxfield's lawyer, is that everything is tied up in the courts. Bryco went bankrupt the day after it lost a $24 million lawsuit. Less than $9 million has been paid, and Maxfield's lawyer estimates his client's lifetime medical bills will be around $11 million.

So Brandon Maxfield is now raising money to buy Bryco in bankruptcy court, hoping to outbid Bryco's former plant manager's offer of $150,000.

RUGGIERI: Our intention is to bid for the assets, to have the machinery and other assets that can be put into useful production sold off.

MARQUEZ (on camera): The court is only deciding who will buy the company, not whether it will manufacture guns. Ruggieri says if Bryco's former plant manager wins the bid, the company will be back in the gun making business. The plant manager didn't return our calls, and the company's former owner says he's contesting the award to the 17-year-old high school senior.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: A terror alert from the FBI. That tops our look at news cross-country now. Suicide bombers and assault teams could be some of the tactics employed against the U.S. this Fourth of July holiday. While there is no credible threat from al Qaeda, the FBI is warning police to be extra vigilant.

Some detainees at Guantanamo Bay may not need the Supreme Court's legal aid after all. That ruling allows detainees to challenge their detentions in court. Now the Pentagon is considering releasing some detainees early, provided they are not security risks.

A disturbing first from the medical world. The CDC in Atlanta says three people have died of rabies contracted from tainted transplanted organs. Now health officials are considering if all organs should be screened for the virus.

Cassini, proving to be the lord of rings as it orbits Saturn. The spacecraft is sending back its first clear images from the giant planet to scientists in Pasadena, California today. Scientists got a bonus, the sounds of Saturn as Cassini passed through its magnetic field.

And that's a look at stories cross-country and beyond tonight.

We'll call them media commandos. The makers of "Fahrenheit 9/11" said today they're putting together a SWAT team. The mission, be ready to respond on a moment's notice to what they're calling extremist attacks against the movie. Filmmaker Michael Moore isn't the only one saying he's taken heat from the Bush administration. Shock jock Howard Stern claims conservatives are trying to knock him off the airwaves.

As CNN's Jason Bellini reports, both men are fighting back. It's all part of raw politics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like him or not -- and he hasn't said either way -- Senator John Kerry has two controversial characters on his side. Shock jock Howard Stern and filmmaker Michael Moore are both on personal quests to take down President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now watch this drive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELLINI: Stern announced Wednesday he got nine more radio stations to carry his show. He calls it great news for him and John Kerry.

HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: John Kerry will receive more votes as a result of this.

BELLINI: Earlier this year, Clear Channel knocked Stern off six stations. He blames Bush supporters for giving him the boot.

STERN: If you notice, a lot of these markets are swing states. If you've read some of the recent surveys, our audience is full of independent voters. The research shows we're having an effect on the election.

BELLINI: Could Stern's potty mouth help elect Kerry? HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, CNN "RELIABLE SOURCES": Howard Stern could turn out to be John Kerry's secret weapon. He's got millions of listeners, many of them young men who ordinarily don't vote, who he is getting riled up against the president and the FCC.

BELLINI: "Fahrenheit 9/11" broke box office records for a documentary last weekend. Michael Moore hopes that means the country is on his side.

(on camera): But the big question is whether or not four months from now swing voters will be turned on or off by what Moore and Stern are saying.

KURTZ: The swing voters in the middle are probably not going to want to take any marching orders from them, but this election seems in part to be about firing up your base.

BELLINI: Win or lose, Stern and Moore will at least make for entertaining raw politics.

Jason Bellini, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: The dramatic scene inside the courtroom. CNN's Christian Amanpour describes her firsthand view.

The man who will defend the tyrant lashes out at the proceedings. Our exclusive interview.

And oops, she'll do it again. The inside scoop on Britney's second engagement.

ANNOUNCER: A special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Good evening. I'm Anderson Cooper in Baghdad.

It has been a remarkable day here. The man who ruled this country with an iron fist for 25 years sat before a judge today. A shadow of his former self, the deposed dictator was still at times unrepentant, argumentative, and imperious, challenging the authority of the court and the legitimacy of the charges against him, lecturing the judge at times and continuing to refer to himself as the president of Iraq.

He called president Bush the real criminal and refused to sign documents laying out the seven charges against him, saying he had no lawyer. He began by stating his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq.

1937.

Profession? Former president of the republic of Iraq, no, present. It's the will of the people.

When I say president of the Republic of Iraq, it's not -- it's not a formality or holding fast to a position, but rather to reiterate to the Iraqi people that I respect its will.

I hope that you remember you are a judge empowered by the people. It doesn't really matter whether you convict me or not, that's not what's important. What's important is that you remember that you are a judge,

Then don't -- don't mention anything occupying forces. You were notified that you -- I have lawyers, right? Am I not supposed to meet with the lawyers before I come before you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was just some of Saddam Hussein. Eleven other former top lieutenants of Saddam also were in court today hearing charges against them. CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour was just one of a handful of people to be in the courtroom when Hussein was arraigned. She joins me now. Thanks for being with us. What surprised you most today?

AMANPOUR: Well, I think I was most surprised by his appearance. Everybody was sitting on the edge of their seat riveted as to what to expect. The pictures have not yet been released, I don't think, of him coming into the court. He was a thin-looking man, he was quite tall, but to me he looked broken at that early moment. He came in with two big burly guards, one on each side of him. They led him to the chair. He sat down quite heavily. He looked tired. He looked a little bit like what am I doing here. It wasn't until he started talking to the judge that he became more animated. I think despite the way it's always being portrayed that he was very defiant, he was. He was challenging the judge, but in my view the judge was in control the whole time.

COOPER: It's interesting because some of the images on TV do make it look as if he was in control. But you're saying the mood, once you're actually there, it seemed different than it appears on TV.

AMANPOUR: Yes, because he has the advantage of the way we were told to shoot this. The camera is directly on him, you can see all his expressions, you can see his hand gestures. You can't see the judge. We weren't allowed to see the judge, except a little bit, three-quarters from the back.

We were told that none of the Iraqis wanted their identities shown for the reasons that we all know, that they're targets, that this is a sensitive trial. But I was very impressed by the way he was cool, he was -- look, he's not even 40 years old. This is a big trial for him, although he's not judging it right now, he's just the investigative judge, and there he is sitting in front of what has been one of the most terrifying men and who knew what might happen. I know that he was nervous about whether there would be an outburst, whether there would be any attempt to physically disrupt what was going on. There were guards all outside. American military were outside too just in case something went wrong. But I thought the exchange was quite reasonable.

Even though Saddam Hussein was -- kept asking questions, this, in fact, was his opportunity to ask questions. We were told yesterday that when they transferred legal custody, he asked could he ask questions the day before and they said no, wait until court. So the judge had allocated 30 minutes in order for Saddam Hussein to ask him questions for him to explain, and I must say I was impressed by the judge's command of the situation.

COOPER: You also had a chance to interact with some of the guards who brought him in. That must have been a remarkable experience for them, suddenly taking this man who had been a dictator here.

AMANPOUR: It looked like the Iraqi system had found the biggest guards they could possibly find just in case. You could tell that the guards -- this was a major reversal of fortune here, and they came in and they moved to each corner of the room because they also didn't want to be shown on camera. But they were looking so intently the whole time he was talking to the judge, they were back and forth but really looking at him like just how can this be happening, how can we be witnessing this. They were amazed by what they were seeing.

And then it was only afterwards when we all went out, when Saddam Hussein had been taken away, back on the chopper, back to American detention, they -- when we came out they went yes, we're happy. You could feel that. One of the assistants, the Iraqi assistants, to a government minister who was there, almost had to be dragged in. Her boss told me that she was really scared. She didn't know, would he still be able to put her in jail or something.

COOPER: Fascinating.

AMANPOUR: So, yes, the Iraqi reaction was very interesting in there.

COOPER: It is remarkable day and you have done remarkable work. Thanks for being with us.

Saddam Hussein was told in court today that he could have a lawyer, but he didn't have one yet. That fact has outraged a group of attorneys hired by Hussein's family to represent him. Earlier in an exclusive interview by phone I spoke with British lawyer Tim Hughes who is one of the men who will be defending the deposed dictator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: What is your argument going to be based on? What is the core of your argument?

TIM HUGHES, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S LAWYER: There are two main submissions. The first one is that the regime of Saddam Hussein was overthrown by an illegal invasion of the Iraq sovereign state by the coalition forces. And that the current Iraqi government which seeks to put Saddam Hussein on trial is a government put in place by a coalition which had seized the power of the country on an illegitimate bases.

Therefore, we do not recognize on Saddam Hussein's behalf that he is no longer the president of Iraq. He said yesterday when the charges were put to him in private that he remains the president and he repeated that again today in court.

The second point is that it is not possible in terms of natural justice for there to be a fair trial of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. The Iraqi judges and the Iraqi system in terms of the arrangements for justice in the country now with the interim government have all been put in place following the handover from the coalition. Therefore, the appointments are all of a political nature. That's not fair, that's not open and that's not justice.

COOPER: How concerned are you that Saddam Hussein has not had access to an attorney thus far?

HUGHES: It's very concerning. And the situation is deplorable. He was arrested in mid-December 2003. Mohammad Al-Rajdan (ph) has been contacting the authorities in America, requesting him to be given the right to legal advice and those requests have all fallen on deaf ears. We had hoped that the Iraqi government may have been advised perhaps by the coalition forces at the time of the handover, to do its very best to ensure that the criticism which it should have foreseen about the process not being fair and open could have been addressed by him being represented today in court, but as you saw he was put before the court in what was clearly an example of the type of show trial we can expect in the future. He was put before the court without legal representation which clearly was unacceptable.

COOPER: Why are you representing Saddam Hussein? There are those who say, look, this is a man who murdered people, who chopped off people's hands, who ruled by -- by brutal decree for years, for generations here. There are a lot of Iraqis here who suddenly see him now hiding behind attorneys such as yourself and it makes them frankly sick. How do you respond?

HUGHES: Well, the response may sound flat, but I'm afraid I'm going to assert the fundamental human right of all citizens, and that is, that when you face, as a citizen of a country, an allegation in a court of law, then the first right you should have is to be represented.

COOPER: Do you give any credit to the new Iraqi government for attempting to do this, whether or not they did it to the best of their ability, but attempting to do this in some sort of fair and open way? I mean, do you think that they are just categorically doing this the wrong way?

HUGHES: I think that a fundamental mistake was made today in parading him in front of the cameras in a set of proceedings in which he was unrepresented. That sent the wrong message from the very first hearing. That sent a message that the Iraqi government is more interested in trying to prove its legitimacy to the Iraqi people, rather than to achieve justice in the case of Saddam Hussein. And that was a missed opportunity today. It should have been dealt with on a more formal footing. He should have been represented legally, and it's, I'm afraid, something which has caused the whole of the legal team grave concern. He should have been represented. He was not. And that's wrong.

COOPER: Tim Hughes, thank you very much for joining us.

HUGHES: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Let's talk about this argument with CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, as I relistened to that interview, I hear the lawyer talking about a lot of procedural issues, not really going to the heart of the actual case against Saddam Hussein.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You can be sure that you will hear virtually nothing, but procedural arguments from the defense here. What he wants to talk about, and what Saddam Hussein was talking about in court today was, is this proceeding legitimate? Was the invasion of his country a legal act by the United States?

What the Iraqi authorities and the American authorities behind them are going to try very hard to do, is to change the subject to the substantive charges. Did he gas the Kurds? Did he murder his political opponents? That's what they want this trial to be about, not their legitimacy. But that struggle is not only not over, it's just beginning.

COOPER: Well, how does that struggle play out? I mean, can't the Iraqi court just say look, we are legitimate, these are the issues, these are the charges, defend yourself against them?

TOOBIN: Well, that's what they're going to try to do, I assume. But remember all the procedural rules are up for grabs here, or almost all of them. You know, Saddam Hussein and his lawyers are going to demand to be heard. They are going to say, this is unfair that we are not going to be allowed to raise arguments A, B, C. So it's going to be difficult.

This trial doesn't just have to be fair, it has to appear to be fair. If the Iraqi authorities who are trying him are constantly shutting him up are denying him the opportunity to make arguments, that's going to be a difficult public relations problem. And public relations, I don't say this in any critical way, is a critical part of how this trial is going to unfold.

COOPER: And that public relations battle began today as well as the court proceedings beginning today. Jeffrey Toobin thanks very much.

TOOBIN: OK, Anderson. Come home safe. COOPER: OK.

Today's "Buzz" is this, "Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings?" What do you think? Log on to CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of the program tonight.

Now, let's go back to New York and some of the day's other headlines from Heidi Collins.

Hey, Heidi.

COLLINS: Hey, Anderson. Thanks.

Next on 360, sexual misconduct in the classroom. Is your child a victim? Surprising research.

Plus, the Britney Spears' bombshell on her engagement. The pop princess tells all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: A new report for the U.S. Department of Education shows some shocking numbers on the dangers children face at school. It suggests one in ten kids encounters some kind of inappropriate sexual behavior from school employees. And that's not just teachers, but coaches and bus drivers too.

Earlier I spoke with Charol Shakeshaft, a professor at the Hofstra University's School of Education. She's the author of the study.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Tell us why these numbers are so high?

CHAROL SHAKESHAFT, HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY: I don't know why the numbers are so high. The one in ten includes kids who report that they've been physically sexually touched, forced to kiss a teacher or another employee, pushed into a corner, had their clothes taken off or raped, but it also includes kids who have been shown sexualized or pornographic pictures, sent e-mails, talked to on the telephone, told sexual stories.

COLLINS: What type of situations, though, and maybe what types of students if there is a student, a typical student who gets involved or finds themselves in these type of situations, can you explain that to us a little bit?

SHAKESHAFT: Sure. Students who are more likely to be targeted are vulnerable students. Students who might have special learning needs, might have physical or emotional disability is. Minority students are more likely to be targeted than are white students. Girls are more likely to be targeted than boys, although not a lot more likely.

COLLINS: Why does it go unreported, though?

SHAKESHAFT: First, kids don't report. About 70 percent of the kids who were targets of educator sexual misconduct reported they didn't tell anybody but a friend. But a second reason is because adults don't pick up on the signs. They don't question a counselor or a teacher or a coach who takes children from school, takes them in their cars, things they've heard about or seen that indicate some kind of boundary crossing and those aren't followed up on.

COLLINS: What is this about? Is it about power?

SHAKESHAFT: Part of it is power, part of it is opportunism, part is lack of judgment, boundaries, understanding the role of the teacher. Especially this is true for teachers or coaches or others with kids who are older.

COLLINS: You know you have come under some criticism here for this report. I want to go ahead and read a quote here if I could from the Concerned Women for America and get your response. The group says, "this report consists of sensational finding based on shoddy scholorship. It trashes teachers in general, and in the process, minimizes the tragedy of those pedophiles who go into teaching in order to prey on children." Your response to that?

SHAKESHAFT: Well, this report is a report that was asked for by Congress. They wanted me to review what research is out there by many researchers. I looked at over 900 studies, I synthesized the findings and reported what the research has shown.

If the research is shoddy, what I would say is let's have better research. If the findings are inaccurate, what I would ask the critics to do is give me findings that are accurate.

COLLINS: All right. Charol Shakeshaft, we certainly appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: From pop diva to domestic goddess: Just ahead, Britney Spears on love and marriage and why she says this trip down the aisle is the real thing.

Also tonight, the man of many faces taking the evolution of Saddam Hussein to "The Nth Degree."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: So what if he's got a 2-year-old daughter and ex- girlfriend is pregnant, the man Britney Spears proposed really stole her heart. I kissed a bunch of frogs she says in a revealing interview in tomorrow's "People" magazine and finally found my prince. For more on the engagement, the wedding plans and how love won over the diva I'm joined now by Jess Cagle, senior editor at "People" magazine.

Boy, this is big time news. She popped the question. JESS CAGLE, SENIOR EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: She popped the question to him. They had met in April, last April. He had gone on tour with her. By early June they were on a flight from Europe coming back to New York and she suddenly said, you know, "will you marry me," and he said no.

COLLINS: No. What's up with that?

CAGLE: He said -- he said no because he thought maybe the guy should ask the girl and so a minute later he turned around and asked her the question and she said yes.

COLLINS: OK. So now we apparently are engaged. All right.

CAGLE: Yes.

COLLINS: Now, they really only have been dating for three months.

CAGLE: Yes.

COLLINS: And given the length of that other marriage that happened so quickly, do they feel like they're rushing into things.

CAGLE: She does not feel like she is rushing into things. She says -- she told people she was surprised that she suddenly found herself thinking about marriage, because the last experience when she had a quickly marriage in Las Vegas to a friend of hers...

COLLINS: Does she remember that?

CAGLE: She does remember it and I think she was a little embarrassed by it. She says it was a total, ugh. You know, she was not in love with that guy, they were just in Vegas, they got crazy. And then she decided, well, you know what, I don't care what people think. I'm going to live my life the way I want to live it, and if I want to marry this guy then I'm going to do it.

COLLINS: All right, now she has talked about being Suzie Homemaker.

Does she really enjoy the cooking and cleaning?

CAGLE: She says that she really enjoys cooking and cleaning. She had a knee injury a while back and she had to cancel the tour, so she's been kind of laid up, she hasn't been able to get out and move around a lot. She's very much in love with this guy. And she says that she enjoys cooking and cleaning and making a home. I suspect she'll get over that really quickly.

COLLINS: I suspect she probably will too. OK. But now to the question that everybody is really wondering, some people have noticed that she's put on some weight. They've been asking questions about that.

In fact, the main question, is she pregnant? CAGLE: She says that she's not pregnant. She says she does plan to get pregnant and she says she wants to have four or five kids. As far as the weight gain, she says this, which I found kind of refreshing, she says, you know, it's normal for a young woman to gain weight now and then. She said, just because you gain weight doesn't means there there's something wrong or that you're pregnant, maybe it just means you're content. Time will tell about the pregnancy.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, that's a pretty mature thing to say.

CAGLE: Considering what other pop starlets are going through right now, I think it's a good thing for young women to hear actually.

COLLINS: What does her mom think about this?

CAGLE: Her mom is being very supportive. Her mom says, she thinks she and -- that Britney and Kevin have great karma together, that they're a good fit and so she's being supportive.

COLLINS: It's amazing what sort of karma can develop in three months. All right, Jeff, thanks so much, we certainly do appreciate your time tonight.

And now back to Anderson Cooper coming to us live from Baghdad once again -- Anderson.

COOPER: Heidi, thanks very much.

A man that Britney Spears probably knows nothing about, Saddam Hussein and the face of survival. We take to that to "The Nth Degree," ahead.

First today's "Buzz," should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings?

Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote, results in just a moment when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. 1937. Profession, former president of the Republic of Iraq, now present.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Saddam Hussein speaking without attorney present. Earlier we asked you "The Buzz" question, "Should Saddam Hussein have been allowed to have a lawyer for today's proceedings, more than 17,000 of you voted; 76 percent said, yes, 24 percent said, no. Not a scientific poll, of course, just your "Buzz."

Tonight taking survival to "The Nth Degree." Iraq has a long history of political repression that started long before Saddam Hussein ever gained power. In fact, in many ways he was formed by it. Through his 20s and 30s he survived and thrived in an era of continuous political upheaval here, coups and counter coups, assassinations, murders. Twenty-five years ago this month at the age of 42, Saddam took power. His first act, a purge of Ba'ath party officials and members of the military, hundreds were killed. He was just getting start.

In years that followed Saddam invaded neighbors, massacred his own people, murdered political opponents. Around every corner he saw enemies, he'd kill first and ask questions later. Two of his victims, his son-in-laws. Saddam, survived two U.S. bombing campaigns only to be found hiding in a hole. Today he may have begun the process of facing justice for crimes against his countrymen, but let's not forget Saddam Hussein is smart and dangerous and a survivor and no one should count him out just yet. That's 360 from Baghdad. I'm Anderson Cooper, thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

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