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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Sneddon Takes the Stand in Michael Jackson Case; Hurricane Charley Death Toll on the Rise
Aired August 16, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: Good evening, everybody. From New York, I'm Heidi Collins. Anderson is off tonight.
Showdown in the courtroom. The prosecutor takes the stand in the Michael Jackson case.
360 starts right now.
Intimidation tactic? The king of pop shows up in court to witness the confrontation firsthand. Michael Jackson in a faceoff with the prosecutor.
Trial less than two weeks away and mounting speculation. Will the high-profile rape case ever take place?
The search for the missing. The death toll on the rise. We take you to the hurricane-ravaged state.
Our special series, Making the Grade. Tonight, corporal punishment. Spare the rod, spoil the child? Or is spanking child abuse?
And a mother faces jail time for smoking in front of her children. Fair or not? You be the judge.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COLLINS: Well, there was no grandstanding to the crowds this time, no strutting atop an SUV. Still, Michael Jackson does know how to make an appearance, especially, it seems, when he's heading to court.
Today the accused child molester stepped off a double-decker tour bus, and to the screams of adoring fans, walked under an umbrella into a pretrial hearing. He didn't have to be there, but considering who was being grilled on the witness stand, Jackson probably wouldn't have missed it for the world.
CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Were they on tour, it might be called the Jackson unity tour. Michael, his sisters Janet and LaToya, his brothers, Randy, Jermaine, and Jackie all march into court, all wearing white.
ROBERTA CLARIN, JACKSON FAN: The whole family wore white, unity, purity, innocence.
MARQUEZ: The show of unity was for the questioning of Santa Barbara County district attorney Tom Sneddon, the man prosecuting Jackson on charges of child molestation and conspiracy, charges Jackson has denied.
Steve Corbett, a columnist for "The Santa Maria Times," has reported on Jackson and Sneddon for years.
STEVE CORBETT, "SANTA MONICA TIMES": Sneddon faltered. Sneddon stumbled. Sneddon appeared to be on the defensive.
MARQUEZ: Wearing sunglasses throughout the hearing, the self- proclaimed king of pop stared without emotion at the district attorney as he was questioned by Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau. Mesereau worked to establish whether Sneddon knew or should have known that Bradley Miller, a Beverly Hills private investigator, was working for Jackson's former lawyer, Mark Geragos, and not directly for Michael Jackson.
CORBETT: If that can be established, I don't think you need to be an attorney to figure out that that's a big deal.
MARQUEZ: And why a big deal? Because Miller's office, along with Jackson's Neverland Ranch and another address in Los Angeles, was one of the three principal places investigators searched.
CORBETT: Ample evidence was taken into custody. They sledgehammered the door to obtain it. They wanted it, and they wanted it then and there.
MARQUEZ: If Jackson's legal team can convince the judge that investigators knew or should have known that Miller worked for Geragos, then all the evidence seized from the investigator's office could be covered by attorney-client privilege, never to be seen by a jury.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Santa Barbara County, district attorney Thomas Sneddon has finished testifying. As soon as he was done, Jackson and his entire family left. A sheriff's investigator is now on the stand being questioned along the same lines by one of Jackson's lawyers, and this hearing is supposed to take all week, and then it will be up to a judge to decide what evidence a jury may hear, Heidi.
COLLINS: Miguel Marquez from California tonight. Miguel, thanks so much for that.
And to Florida now, where the pricetag for Hurricane Charley's eight-hour visit to Florida is estimated to be about $14 billion. The recovery process is underway, along with a massive effort to bring support services to the hardest-hit areas as rescue workers keep looking for survivors.
CNN's John Zarrella has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For three solid days, urban search and rescue teams have walked every block in Punta Gorda, knocked on every door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, fire rescue.
ZARRELLA: They've been looking for the missing and the dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And our mission today, it's basically accountability, make sure the tallies (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the only two here, and we're fine. We're fine, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about your neighbors? Do you know if anybody...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just left...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... they're an elderly couple...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... he and his wife just left. They're fine.
ZARRELLA: There is a growing sense here that fears of dozens of casualties will not be the case. There have already been two complete sweeps of the entire county by federal search teams, who...
WAYNE SALLADE, CHARLOTTE COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Targeted 31 mobile home parks. Went to all the condominiums and other buildings that we knew were compromised, went door to door, room to room. And they've not found anything.
ZARRELLA: Officials here believe people still unaccounted for simply haven't been able to get to a phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No phones, no power, no water. It just looks like a bomb hit the place.
ZARRELLA: A wireless company set up a mobile phone bank so people could get the word out to worried loved ones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on phone): Can you call John to let him know we're OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on phone): Did he get there OK? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, call everybody's coming, OK? Tell everybody that we're OK, all right?
ZARRELLA: As word gets out, as one person and then another makes contact, the number of missing is reduced.
Giselle de Augustaino (ph) can finally rest easy. Her sisters in Rochester know she's alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: And now while that search and rescue effort is winding down, it will continue, the authorities here say, until they are absolutely sure that everyone has been accounted for. And as that goes on, of course, people continue, shop owners continue to go through the rubble of what remains of their businesses here in downtown Punta Gorda, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, John Zarrella, thanks so much for that. Appreciate it tonight.
President Bush has announced a major change in the way the U.S. military will be deployed around the world. And in an election year, questions are already being raised about whether the strategy is military or political.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on the announcement and the reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush, in a campaign event before the Veterans of Foreign Wars, announced his plan to bring home up to 70,000 U.S. troops and 100,000 family members and civilians based overseas.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The new plan will help us fight and win these wars of the 21st century. It will strengthen our alliances around the world, while we build new partnerships to better preserve the peace.
MALVEAUX: The plan, one of the biggest troop redeployments since the end of the Korean War, is aimed at shifting military personnel initially assigned in Western Europe and Asia to deter the Soviets during the cold war. Troops would now be redeployed into smaller, more mobile units around the globe, able to quickly respond to terror.
The president says his plan to close hundreds of U.S. facilities overseas over the next 10 years will make life easier for military families and save the American taxpayers money.
Mr. Bush's opponent, Senator Kerry, says as president, he would add 40,000 troops to the global deployment. The president didn't talk specifically about the 150,000 U.S. troops temporarily deployed in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq. Nevertheless, the Bush campaign is hoping during this election season, this redeployment plan will demonstrate the president's commitment to the troops. Kerry has said he would withdraw U.S. troops from the Iraq conflict during his first six months if he were president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, as both sides compete for the military vote, White House officials acknowledge that any major shift in U.S. troops from Western Europe or Asia would take years of negotiations with allied countries, and also that any real changes are five to 10 years away, Heidi.
COLLINS: Suzanne Malveaux from the White House tonight. Suzanne, thanks.
A fast fact now. The United States has several hundred thousand troops based in countries overseas. Here are the top three. The area in and around Iraq comes in first, with about 120,000 U.S. troops there. Germany comes in second, with 70,000 U.S. troops. And Japan is in third with 40,000.
Here at home, the FBI says it was only doing its job when it questioned some activists about potential threats to this summer's political conventions. As you might imagine, those activists and others aren't buying it.
CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena has more now on the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-one- year-old Sarah Bardwell has participated in some political protests in the past, but she had no plans to attend either political convention and says none of her friends did either.
Still, she says, four FBI agents and two police officers showed up at her Denver home in July to ask her and her roommates if they or anyone they knew planned to engage in criminal activity in either Boston or New York.
SARAH BARDWELL, PEACE ACTIVIST: I think that the reason the FBI came to our house was to intimidate us out of using our First Amendment rights, and I think that they chose us because most of the people in my house have been politically involved.
ARENA: FBI officials acknowledge that after receiving information about possible disruptions at both political conventions, agents did interview a number of citizens in an effort to learn more. Officials say the threat information was specific.
For example, during the Democratic convention, the FBI said it had information about the possible bombing of media vans. BARBARA COMSTOCK, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: The FBI is following up on leads that they get to investigate criminal activity. But that that is not chilling activity, that is normal, everyday police practice.
ARENA: The FBI has issued bulletins ahead of other planned protests, warning agents about potential violence. The Justice Department has said the bulletins were constitutional because, quote, "threats of violent or destructive civil disturbance do not fall within the protection of the First Amendment." But the American Civil Liberties Union charges the government with stepping over the line.
ANN BEESON, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: When the FBI engages in tactics like that, that we begin to think of what happened in the 1960s and the 1970s when the FBI and CIA intentionally targeted antiwar protesters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The ACLU says not only is the FBI interviewing protesters, but infiltrating some of their meetings, all of which, it says, is seriously intimidating. In a statement released just this evening, the FBI says it is operating within the bounds of the Constitution, Heidi.
COLLINS: Kelli Arena, live from Washington tonight. Thanks, Kelli.
The federal government is taking over the job of checking airline passengers against terror watch lists. That story tops our look at news cross-country now.
Right now, the airlines do the screening, but the 9/11 commission complained the lists the airlines use are incomplete. It also said the government holds back information to avoid tipping off terrorists or allowing it to fall into the wrong hands.
Salt Lake City, Utah, a quick court appearance by Mark Hacking. He said nothing as the judge set a date in late September for a preliminary hearing. Hacking is charged with murdering his wife, Lori, last month while she slept, and dumping her body in a trash bin. Police have searched the landfill for two weeks now, but still no sign of Lori Hacking.
Chicago, she may be a rich and powerful celebrity, but like millions of Americans, Oprah Winfrey was chosen today to serve on a jury. The TV talk show host was escorted into criminal court, where she was picked for a jury on a murder case. And, like every other juror, Oprah will be paid $17.20 a day for her time.
That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, Kobe Bryant, his accuser in the spotlight. A trial date's been set, but will it really go forward? We'll have the latest. Plus, he said, he said. New Jersey's governor getting a boost in the polls as the man accusing him of sexual harassment goes public. We have the latest on the McGreevey sex scandal.
Also tonight, teachers, spanking your kids at school. Good discipline or bad punishment? We'll hear from both sides, part of our special series, Making the Grade.
But first, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Kobe Bryant's final pretrial hearing was held today. Jury selection is scheduled to begin next week. But given today's latest setback for the prosecution, some continue to wonder if a jury will be seated at all.
National correspondent Gary Tuchman has the latest now from Eagle, Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kobe Bryant and his attorneys got news they were hoping for from Judge Terry Ruckriegle. He told them the Colorado Supreme Court is letting one of his crucial decisions stand, which will allow evidence of the accuser's sexual history around the time she was with Bryant to be admitted in the trial, if there is a trial.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, COLORADO TRIAL ATTORNEY: After today, there is a slightly better chance we will have a trial. But I still think the smarter money says no trial, no criminal trial.
TUCHMAN: The woman's personal attorneys have declared they're heading toward a civil trial, where they'll ask for monetary damages. That, combined with the judge's decision last week denying a prosecution request to delay the criminal trial indefinitely while prosecutors regroup, increased speculation the case would be dropped.
But even with a strict gag order in place, the district attorney's office said on Monday, the prosecution plans to move forward to trial as scheduled. The woman's personal attorneys have said they are considering not having their client go forward with the criminal trial. But as of now, she is still scheduled to be the star prosecution witness.
CYNTHIA STONE, COLORADO COALITION AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT: She has actually stood fast during this process, which we think shows strength and conviction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: So far, 544 journalists are credentialed to cover this, which is a high total, but they're outnumbered by the prospective jurors being summoned, about 1,000, drawn from a county that only has 42,000 men, women, and children to begin with. So basically, one out of every 42 people who live in Eagle County have a piece of paper saying to come to this courthouse a week from Friday to deal with the Kobe Bryant case, Heidi.
COLLINS: Wow, that's quite a number. All right, Gary Tuchman live from Eagle, Colorado. Thanks, Gary.
When New Jersey Governor James McGreevey revealed he had had an extramarital affair with another man, it was clear there would be more to the story. And while state politicians maneuver over the future of the office, the past of the officeholder continues to be laid bar, as -- bare, that is -- as the supposed other man tells his side of the story.
Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even by today's political standards, it was an incredible announcement.
GOV. JAMES MCGREEVEY (D), NEW JERSEY: I am a gay American.
FEYERICK: The married father, New Jersey's governor, confessing he'd had an affair with a man.
MCGREEVEY: I engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man.
FEYERICK: But the man in question says he is straight, Golan Cipel, through his lawyer, telling CNN he is not gay. The former Israeli navy officer worked as head of New Jersey's department of homeland security until 2002. He was set to file a sexual harassment suit against the governor, Cipel telling the Israeli paper The Dios Ahranot (ph) that "McGreevey started up with me again and again. I reached a point where I was afraid to be alone with him."
Cipel's lawyer says his client was subjected to a series of sexual advances and assaults. Ultimately, Cipel gave in, his lawyer reading this statement.
ALLEN LOWY, ATTORNEY FOR GOLAN CIPEL: "Therefore, I have come to realize that my lack of strength was understandable. When I finally dared to reject Governor McGreevey's advances, the retaliatory actions taken by him and members of his administration were nothing short of abuse and intimidation."
FEYERICK: But aides to the governor accused Cipel of blackmail, and federal authorities in New Jersey are investigating. Cipel's lawyer denies it, saying it was McGreevey's lawyers who asked Cipel not to file a lawsuit, but instead resolve the matter another way.
A colleague who worked with Cipel in Israel tells CNN he had many girlfriends and that he is, quote, "not a person who is after money." Cipel told a colleague the last two years had been hell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Governor McGreevey was sequestered in the statehouse Monday, meeting with high-level staff, figuring out how to wrap up his term in 90 days. Tomorrow, he'll be focused on homeland security, leading tabletop exercise in preparation for the Republican National Convention, Heidi.
COLLINS: Which is just around the corner. All right. Deb Feyerick, thanks so much for that.
An American tank ambushed in Baghdad. That tops our look at global stories in the uplink.
Sadr City, the U.S. military says insurgents fired an improvised explosive device at the tank. The crew was rescued before the tank blew up. Sadr City is home to supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is involved in a major standoff against American and Iraqi troops in the holy city of Najaf.
Caracas, Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez beats back a referendum to remove him from office. Former president Jimmy Carter monitored the election and backs the results. But opponents of Chavez charged the vote was rigged.
Athens, Greece, another big Olympic victory for Iraq that no doubt gives a boost to the pride of millions back home. Iraq's soccer team scored two goals late in a match against Costa Rica and won. This victory now advances Iraq to the quarter-finals.
Over Bristol, England, this man is either a daredevil or completely out of his mind, or both. Look at this, now. He walked a beam between two hot-air balloons while blindfolded, of course. The stunt was part of an international balloon festival, and after making it safely across, he turned around and walked back the other way. When the stunt was over, the daredevil admitted he was a little nervous. Well, who wouldn't be?
That's tonight's uplink.
360 next, spanking in schools. Corporal punishment, legal in 22 states. But should it be? We'll hear from both sides, part of our special series, Making the Grade.
Also tonight, 10 days in jail for smoking around her kids. Find out why one mom had the book thrown at her.
And a little later, a Jackson family reunion, a show of force as Michael takes on his prosecutor. But will it help his case? We'll hear from both sides.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In the year 2000, more than 342,000 students were subjected to corporal punishment in the U.S. according to the Department of Education. And while the numbers are dropping, there are still many who defend the practice. Tonight, as we begin our back-to-school series, Making the Grade, CNN's Jason Bellini brings us one student's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the fourth day of school. Justin Causby got in trouble with his gym coach.
JUSTIN CAUSBY: Why'd you stop running, boy? And I said, Well, I have asthma and I'm tired.
BELLINI: Justin says the coach ordered him to pick up sticks from the field. A fellow student told the coach he heard Justin say something about him.
JUSTIN CAUSBY: I said, You suck. And he said, Boy, you got something to say, you say it to my face.
BELLINI: With another teacher as a witness, the coach paddled Justin three times.
LYNN CAUSBY, JUSTIN'S MOTHER: That wasn't corporal punishment. That was a beating. When you come home from school bleeding, blood on your underwear, that's not just a spanking for being a bad boy.
BELLINI: Justin's mom, Lynn Causby, filed a felony assault complaint against the coach. The Groveton Independent School District determined the coach did nothing wrong. School district officials declined our request for an interview.
(on camera): The school district's view is supported by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. It investigated the incident and found that the paddling did not meet its definition of abuse or neglect.
(voice-over): A grand jury declined to indict the coach on the felony abuse charge. The grand jury saw a note from Justin's doctor, saying Justin suffered traumatic injury.
JOE NED DEAN, TRINITY COUNTY D.A.: The doctor didn't prescribe any treatment. He said there was trauma. There's going to be trauma anytime a young, kind of heavyset kid gets a paddling.
BELLINI: Twenty-eight states have abolished corporal punishment, deeming it both cruel and ineffective. It's still allowed in 22 states, mostly in the Bible Belt. Proponents of corporal punishment say children aren't getting the discipline they need at home, and paddling beats suspension.
A. DIAL, RETIRED TEACHER: Forty-five years in the teaching business, if a kid needed his butt whipped, he got it, and usually it helped.
BELLINI: Lynn Causby home-schooled Justin the rest of the year. At Groveton schools, teachers still determine when to use corporal punishment. Jason Bellini, CNN, Groveton, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services admits it did not interview Justin in determining he was not the victim of abuse. The only -- they only spoke with his school superintendent, who said the coach did nothing wrong. We were unable to reach the coach for comment.
Joining me now to talk more about corporal punishment, a supporter, Hubon Sandridge. He's a member of Memphis, Tennessee's board of education, which is currently debating this issue. On the other side, Robert Fathman. He started the National Coalition to Abolish Corporal Punishment in Schools after his then-6-year-old daughter was paddled with a thick board even after he told the school not to touch her.
Gentlemen, welcome to both of you tonight.
HUBON SANDRIDGE, MEMPHIS CITY SCHOOLS BOARD OF EDUCATION. Thank you, Heidi.
ROBERT FATHMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks for being here.
I want to begin with you, Mr. Sandridge, if I could, please. Tell me why corporal punishment is a good idea.
SANDRIDGE: Corporal punishment is a good idea, number one, the Bible teaches in Proverbs 22 and 6, "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and he will not depart." The bottom line for this, Heidi, is, in our nation, the lack of parental involvement, 64 percent is the problem we face.
It's not about punishment. It's about discipline. It's about training. And when parents are not training their children, and the numbers are staggering at 64 percent, especially in impoverished areas and urban areas, we must deal with students accordingly if they violate policy, and I...
COLLINS: Mr. Fathman, let me ask you, sir, if parents aren't doing their job, whose job is it to do?
FATHMAN: Well, parents are doing their job. I, you know, parents love their children, they're bringing them up the best that they can. And schools fill in during the day. But it isn't parents' job to pick up boards and hit children with it. It's not school's job to do it. It's the school's job to educate the children, not to beat them.
SANDRIDGE: Let me make it perfectly clear, if I may, Heidi, no child is being abused. When you're dealing with corporal punishment, there is a policy in place. The principal, along with an administrative assistant, is present. Parents have to give... FATHMAN: Yes, but that doesn't mean that they're not being abused, reverend...
SANDRIDGE: Let me make -- let me...
FATHMAN: ... with all due respect to you.
SANDRIDGE: ... if I may (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FATHMAN: There are 8,000 children a year going to doctors' offices and...
SANDRIDGE: Let me...
FATHMAN: ... hospital emergency rooms...
SANDRIDGE: Let me...
FATHMAN: ... with teacher-inflicted...
SANDRIDGE: All right...
FATHMAN: ... injuries like that little boy in Texas.
SANDRIDGE: That little boy...
COLLINS: Mr. Sandridge, go ahead and complete your thought.
FATHMAN: That little boy in Texas is one case. Sir, when 64 percent of our parents are not training their children, it's a God- given responsibility. We cannot administer corporal punishment without a parental consent. So everyone understands we're not talking about abuse. We're talking about training children who do not receive training at home. And if God has ordained that, I agree with that.
FATHMAN: You know...
COLLINS: Mr. Fathman, let me ask you, what does happen if this type of punishment backfires, if you will?
FATHMAN: You mean when children are injured, like little Justin?
COLLINS: Right.
FATHMAN: When children are injured like that, parents have absolutely no recourse. Court after court, just like in Texas, has upheld the teacher's rights to injure children, and parents have no right to protect them from that. Only in one of the 22 paddling states do parents have right under law to prevent paddling being done to their children. In the other 20...
COLLINS: Can they not pull the child out of that school?
FATHMAN: And then do what with them, pay for private school tuition?
SANDRIDGE: Well...
FATHMAN: Not everyone can do that. If you pull a child out of school -- Mrs. Causby is now driving her child 25 miles one way to get him into a neighboring district.
SANDRIDGE: But that was (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FATHMAN: Lots of parents work, and can't do that.
SANDRIDGE: That was Ms. Causby's choice. Again I say...
FATHMAN: Well, it was her choice to protect her child.
COLLINS: Pardon me, Mr. Sandridge, the last word here now.
SANDRIDGE: The last word is, train up a child in the way that he or she should go, and he or she will not depart. That's the Bible. I stand there, and I believe the people of this nation stand there as well.
FATHMAN: Lots of people...
COLLINS: Thank...
FATHMAN: ... interpret that Bible entirely differently. Do you want to hit children with boards like this? That's not the Jesus of my faith when you do something like that.
SANDRIDGE: Well, let me, let me say this to you...
COLLINS: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. I apologize...
SANDRIDGE: Spare the rod, spoil the child.
COLLINS: ... we're running out of time.
Thank you so much, Cuban Sandridge...
SANDRIDGE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: ... and Robert Fathman, appreciate your time tonight...
FATHMAN: Thank you very much, Heidi, I appreciate being with you.
COLLINS: ... both of you.
SANDRIDGE: Thank you.
COLLINS: Today's "Buzz" is this, "Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools? Log on to CNN.com/360 to vote. We'll have the results coming up at the end of the show. Our series "Making the Grade" continues tomorrow night with a look at abstinence education. Teens taught to say no to sex. Why are so many still saying yes, and getting pregnant? Wednesday, "Reading at Risk." Research shows an alarming decline in reading across America. Are we spiraling toward illiteracy? Thursday, single sex schools. The pros, the cons. Is it the best environment for your child? Then, Friday, a look at Deep Springs College where students call the shots. Find out why it's being called the most successful experiment in higher education in U.S. history.
Intimidation tactic, the King of Pop shows up in court to witness the confrontation firsthand. Michael Jackson in a face-off with the prosecutor.
And a mother tastes jail time for smoking in front of her children. Fair or not? You be the judge. 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The tables were turned for Michael Jackson during a pretrial hearing today. Jackson was in court to hear what the district attorney had to say from the witness stand. At issue, whether the DA overstepped his authority during the investigation into allegations that Jackson molested a child. Covering the case for us in "Justice Served" tonight is Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom and from Miami, defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Hi.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi.
COLLINS: How are you? Glad you guys are here. Lisa, I want to ask you about this right off the bat. Unusual hearing where the prosecutor actually becomes the witness. What exactly is it at stake here?
BLOOM: Well, the best defense is a good offense, right? And so, as you said, he's turned the table. Michael Jackson personally comes to this pretrial hearing, not necessary, not required, but knowing that all of the news cameras will be focused on him and more broadly on this hearing which is all about whether the DA misstepped, overstepped his bounds in executing a search warrant and doing some personal surveillance of an investigator.
COLLINS: Jayne, I hear you giggling.
WEINTRAUB: Giggling? No, I was sighing. I guess, Lisa, you forget to read the constitution lately. Michael Jackson has a constitutional right to be present at every critical stage of the proceedings...
BLOOM: Of course he does.
WEINTRAUB: And, Lisa, this is one of them. This is not a grandstanding. In anyone's grandstanding, it's the media, not Michael Jackson. This is serious stuff and today was very, very serious, and Lisa, can you ever name another case where the DA himself was called to the witness stand by the judge? There were pleadings that went back and forth, Heidi, and what happened is obviously, the judge did not take Tom Sneddon's word for it and obviously wanted Sneddon placed under oath. It's extraordinary.
BLOOM: Well, Sneddon agreed to be placed under oath because he says he has nothing to hide. And look, it is unusual, Jayne, I'll grant you that, but it's not unheard of for an attorney to have to talk about something that happened in a case and whether it was proper or improper. Ultimately the trial...
WEINTRAUB: Lisa, he is...
BLOOM: ...this case is going to be about Michael Jackson, not about Tom Sneddon.
WEINTRAUB: It's about what Tom Sneddon has made it, Lisa, he injected himself...
BLOOM: That's not what this hearing is about. This hearing is about a very narrow issue, whether Tom Sneddon knew that Geragos...
WEINTRAUB: Right, the impropriety of (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BLOOM: ...had retained a particular investigator. He either knew or he didn't know. The investigator either was or wasn't retained. And this issue will be long forgotten by the time trial rolls around.
COLLINS: Let me get to a new question here. Let's talk about this. The Jackson camp has said many times that the district attorney has this vendetta against Michael Jackson. How bad is it if the public actually agrees with that?
WEINTRAUB: I think that for the good of the case, for both sides, state as well as the defense, I think Sneddon needs to step away and step down. It's not just the impropriety. I think Lisa will even agree, it's the appearance of impropriety that Sneddon has a personal stake in the outcome of the case. And that is going to hurt the case for the state and for the defense, it's going to damage the defense because he does have a personal vendetta and driving it home.
BLOOM: The guy is the chief law enforcement officer. I see nothing wrong with him being involved in law enforcement activities. This is the normally the kind of thing that gets delegated. But this isn't a normal case. This is a case against Michael Jackson. If he wanted to handle some matters personally, get involved in it himself, I see nothing improper about that.
WEINTRAUB: Lisa, I've tried over 100 murder trials. I have never in my life been put in a position where I would I let myself become a witness in a case.
BLOOM: That doesn't--Jayne, what ethical rule, what law or statute does it violate for him to conduct the surveillance himself?
COLLINS: Ladies, we're going to have to leave it here. Sorry about that. Appreciate your time tonight, both of you so very much. Lisa Bloom, Jayne Weintraub, thanks guys. More "Tales of the Tape" today in the case of Scott Peterson now for the fourth day, Amber Frey took the stand as recorded phone conversations between her and the accused killer were played for the jury. In one exchange, Peterson admits to lying to Frey but insists, quote, "I'm not an evil person." The prosecution begs to differ. CNN's Ted Rowlands has the latest from the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jurors heard another full day of taped conversations between Amber Frey and Scott Peterson. On these tapes, Frey, who was working with police at the time, grilled Peterson about his lies and tried to get him to open up by telling him how upset she was.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
AMBER FREY: And not to have this--this fear inside my heart that you had something to do with this and that you may have possibly and potentially have killed your wife.
SCOTT PETERSON: No, you don't need to have that fear. You know me well enough.
AMBER FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: I'm not an evil guy.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
ROWLANDS: At one point today, Scott Peterson's mother started to cry while listening to her son on the tapes recount the true story of how she was hospitalize due to stress during the search for Laci. Amber Frey also broke down at one point during a portion of the tape where she was sobbing about how devastating the ordeal had been for her. Frey said "I was so happy to have met you." Peterson replied, "I'm sorry I ruined that." Also today, jurors heard Peterson tell Amber Frey that Laci knew about their affair and had accepted it. Frey argued with Peterson about whether or not that could have been true.
GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTORNEY: What pregnant woman do you know who would be fine with her husband having a girlfriend? Who was he kidding?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Court has adjourned for the day. Jurors will hear more tapes when court reconvenes here tomorrow morning. It is expected the defense will have their opportunity to cross-examine Amber Frey on Wednesday. Heidi?
COLLINS: Alright, Ted Rowlands, thanks so much for the update on that. And joining us for more on the Peterson case is Court TV anchor Catherine Crier. Catherine, thanks to you also for being here. OK, so we heard that Frey testified today. She was told by Peterson that Laci knew Scott was having this affair with another woman but it didn't bother her.
CATHERINE CRIER, COURT TV ANCHOR: You could hear the groans across the courtroom. And certainly I could in my studio. I don't think there's a woman on the planet that bought that and probably most men, but it goes along with the kind of information we're hearing from this guy. These extraordinary lies, the adventures, the fantasies from New Year's Day and all the places he was traveling in Europe and when he turns to her and says I never lied to you, and she laughs and he goes well, not really. This guy is a little bit unbalanced.
COLLINS: We also heard Frey talking about another affair she had with another married man. Now, what does that do to her credibility?
CRIER: It really doesn't do much because the weight of this exchange will be Scott's words, his words are on tape. Geragos can complain is that she was trying to set him up. He can complain she had a vendetta, but ultimately the jurors are listening to his words and they will acquit or convict him.
COLLINS: OK, I want to read part of a conversation now played in court today. It's about the relationship between Amber Frey and what she tells Peterson is this, "When people find out, and they will, no one will think your behavior is innocent." But here, his mistress is clearly skeptical of him. How could that actually impact the injury knowing that she really knows this and that she is questioning him hard?
CRIER: Well, I think they're listening to her as an interrogator because they know she is a foil for the cops. She is out there acting in their stead so...
COLLINS: Does that make a difference that she was being prompted possibly?
CRIER: No, because either the man is going to say something confessional or he's not and I think he protests too much. He says, you know, I am innocent, I am not an evil person. I had nothing to do with the disappearance, but as far as I'm concerned, the longer I listen, the more I truly believe he knew he was likely being taped.
COLLINS: Really?
CRIER: Mm-hmm.
COLLINS: I've not heard that yet. How can you tell? Just by the tone of his voice, or...
CRIER: I think he's very deliberate, very flat affect. The way he responds to things, the way he injects a defense at particular points in time. I also think as a rational human being, would you stay on the phone with this woman even if you loved her who was interrogating and going over and over the same--what's the point of this conversation? And the only point in my mind was he wanted to get his bits in thinking maybe the cops were listening.
COLLINS: All right, Catherine Crier, thanks so much for your insight on all of this tonight. Appreciate it.
A mom put in the slammer for smoking. 360 next. Why a judge is telling this woman to stay away from cigarettes.
Plus, ad icons, seeking your vote. Find out why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For Tamara Silvius, her weakness is tobacco. A judge in Bowling Green, Virginia said when Tamara smokes, she cannot be with her kids. But she says she can't stop smoking. Her addiction to cigarettes has led to jail time for a second time due to contempt of court charges. For now, she's out of jail appealing the latest ruling. Earlier, I spoke with Tamara Silvius.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: Tamara, you defied a court order that said you couldn't smoke around your kids who are, for the viewers at home, eight and ten years old, but now you're facing jail time. Tell us why you continued to smoke.
TAMARA SILVIUS, WOMAN JAILED FOR SMOKING: I think smoking is something that I have chosen to do and that I do. And but I will not smoke at all near my children or even my children will not see me smoke at all, in other words.
COLLINS: Why don't you just stop smoking?
SILVIUS: Because I'm an adult, and I do not choose to quit smoking, but if a court orders that I will not smoke at all while my children are at my house or with me, I will not smoke at all.
COLLINS: Do you have a hard time believing that it's come to this, though, that the smoking has come to you not being able to see your kids as much as you want and facing jail time and all of those things?
SILVIUS: I honestly think that I'm really amazed that the entire court order has come to this point. It's not just the issue of smoking in the court order that concerns me. It's also the alcohol, where I cannot consume alcohol 24 hours prior to visitation, nor can I or anybody in their presence consume alcohol, which means you being of legal age cannot come to my home and perform a legal activity as long as my kids are there because I cannot allow it because it's in this court order.
COLLINS: But you now are appealing that ten days in jail, the sentence of ten days in jail. What makes you think that another judge may have a different opinion in this case?
SILVIUS: You know, I truly believe I was abiding by the court order. I had not smoked in my house, I had not smoked in my truck. The only place the children ever saw me smoke was outside and I truly believe that that was abiding by the court order because they were not in an enclosed area where secondhand smoke was an issue, and I really truly believed I was abiding by it.
COLLINS: Have you ever been able to talk with your kids about it? They are eight and ten. Do they have any comprehension of what's going on here?
SILVIUS: I kind of really, really hope they do not. Although they are old enough where they do. And I'm really, really ashamed that my ex-husband brought my kids into court to speak with the judge. That just really, really are bothers me. And I certainly hope they're not affected by this.
COLLINS: We certainly wish you and your family the very best in all of this. Tamara Silvius, thanks so much for your time tonight.
SILVIUS: Thank you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: 360 next, will the Michelin Man beat out Tony the Tiger? The race for America's favorite advertising icon gets underway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For Olympic organizers, this may turn out to be the summer of their discontent. It's not the games or the venues or security. It's the fans. No, they're not loud or unruly. They're missing.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Impressive start for Puerto Rico.
COLLINS (voice-over): A near-capacity crowd watched the U.S. basketball team take a beating from Puerto Rico Sunday. But when Venus Williams beat her Hungarian opponent in straight sets, only about 500 fans were scattered through a stadium that holds 8600. And that seems to be the rule rather than the exception in the opening days of the 2004 Summer Olympics. Baseball's been a bust. Weight lifters and wrestlers, archers, soccer players, gymnasts all played to paltry crowds.
Even beach volleyball failed to attract much attention. Let's look at the numbers. The Greeks spent $7 billion to bring the Olympics home, they put 5.2 million tickets on the block and in a population of nearly 11 million, today, ticket sale creeped past the 3 million mark. So why the apparently poor showing? Well, there was the well-publicized race to finish many venues and worries over security. Then there's the weather. Near 90 degree temperatures every day. Great for sun bathing, not so great for spectating. Or it could be a lack of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have games that Greek people don't know or doesn't like.
COLLINS: Then there's scandal. Two of Greece's best medal hopes, sprinters Kostantinos Kenteris and Katerina Thanou have been withdrawn by the Olympic Committee after failing to show for a mandatory drug test. But organizers aren't panicking, not yet anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People will be coming back and buying tickets.
COLLINS: They had better if organizers want to find themselves taking home the gold when the Games end or simply swimming in red.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: It's the election we've been waiting for. No, not that one. I'm talking about the one where being cartoonish a plus and two- dimensional a compliment. Jeanne Moos goes "Inside the Box" for more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about convention bounce. It's the Michelin Man versus the Pillsbury Doughboy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hohoho.
MOOS: It's the Jolly Green Giant versus Tony the Tiger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're grrrrrreat!
MOOS: No dirty tricks for Mr. Clean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES: ...Mr. Clean gets rid of dirt and grime.
MOOS: But will Mr. Clean be able to get rid of Mr. Peanut?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's one of the few figures in America who literally knows he's nuts.
MOOS: There were campaign buttons, hats and posters. Quack the Vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AFLAC.
MOOS: That's the AFLAC duck in the jaws of Charlie the Tuna. There are 26 candidates in the race for most beloved advertising icon. You can cast your vote online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to like Tony the Tiger when I was little.
MOOS: Let's get him over here. Sorry Charlie, you're out of the picture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember you when I was little.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frosted flakes are great!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To tell you the truth, I never had a cereal. I just liked Tony.
MOOS: The icons gathered gingerly on the steps of New York City Hall where they were greeted by a former mayor who denied resembling Mr. Clean.
ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: I am not bald. I am balding.
MOOS: But if you add the earring...
The point of the contest seems to be to advertise advertising. At the ripe age of 60, this icon is looking good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! Chiquita Banana...
MOOS: Well, who did you think you were talking to?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at all the fruit on my head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I was talking to Carmen Miranda. That's my day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Clean will clean your whole house.
MOOS: And though this guy was leaning towards voting for Mr. Clean...
Are you having second thoughts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot to be said for Chiquita bananas.
MOOS: It drove security bananas when Mr. Peanut set off a metal detector.
I'd check this guy's hat.
When things are so bad they have to wand Mr. Peanut, the world really has gone nuts. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Oh. The only thing we're missing is the Lucky Charms leprechaun.
Well, today's "Buzz." Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools? We'll have the results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time now for the "Buzz." Earlier we asked, "Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools?" 30 percent said "Yes," 70 percent voted "No." This is not a scientific poll but it is your "Buzz."
I'm Heidi Collins in for Anderson Cooper. Up next, PAULA ZAHN NOW.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 16, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: Good evening, everybody. From New York, I'm Heidi Collins. Anderson is off tonight.
Showdown in the courtroom. The prosecutor takes the stand in the Michael Jackson case.
360 starts right now.
Intimidation tactic? The king of pop shows up in court to witness the confrontation firsthand. Michael Jackson in a faceoff with the prosecutor.
Trial less than two weeks away and mounting speculation. Will the high-profile rape case ever take place?
The search for the missing. The death toll on the rise. We take you to the hurricane-ravaged state.
Our special series, Making the Grade. Tonight, corporal punishment. Spare the rod, spoil the child? Or is spanking child abuse?
And a mother faces jail time for smoking in front of her children. Fair or not? You be the judge.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COLLINS: Well, there was no grandstanding to the crowds this time, no strutting atop an SUV. Still, Michael Jackson does know how to make an appearance, especially, it seems, when he's heading to court.
Today the accused child molester stepped off a double-decker tour bus, and to the screams of adoring fans, walked under an umbrella into a pretrial hearing. He didn't have to be there, but considering who was being grilled on the witness stand, Jackson probably wouldn't have missed it for the world.
CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Were they on tour, it might be called the Jackson unity tour. Michael, his sisters Janet and LaToya, his brothers, Randy, Jermaine, and Jackie all march into court, all wearing white.
ROBERTA CLARIN, JACKSON FAN: The whole family wore white, unity, purity, innocence.
MARQUEZ: The show of unity was for the questioning of Santa Barbara County district attorney Tom Sneddon, the man prosecuting Jackson on charges of child molestation and conspiracy, charges Jackson has denied.
Steve Corbett, a columnist for "The Santa Maria Times," has reported on Jackson and Sneddon for years.
STEVE CORBETT, "SANTA MONICA TIMES": Sneddon faltered. Sneddon stumbled. Sneddon appeared to be on the defensive.
MARQUEZ: Wearing sunglasses throughout the hearing, the self- proclaimed king of pop stared without emotion at the district attorney as he was questioned by Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau. Mesereau worked to establish whether Sneddon knew or should have known that Bradley Miller, a Beverly Hills private investigator, was working for Jackson's former lawyer, Mark Geragos, and not directly for Michael Jackson.
CORBETT: If that can be established, I don't think you need to be an attorney to figure out that that's a big deal.
MARQUEZ: And why a big deal? Because Miller's office, along with Jackson's Neverland Ranch and another address in Los Angeles, was one of the three principal places investigators searched.
CORBETT: Ample evidence was taken into custody. They sledgehammered the door to obtain it. They wanted it, and they wanted it then and there.
MARQUEZ: If Jackson's legal team can convince the judge that investigators knew or should have known that Miller worked for Geragos, then all the evidence seized from the investigator's office could be covered by attorney-client privilege, never to be seen by a jury.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Santa Barbara County, district attorney Thomas Sneddon has finished testifying. As soon as he was done, Jackson and his entire family left. A sheriff's investigator is now on the stand being questioned along the same lines by one of Jackson's lawyers, and this hearing is supposed to take all week, and then it will be up to a judge to decide what evidence a jury may hear, Heidi.
COLLINS: Miguel Marquez from California tonight. Miguel, thanks so much for that.
And to Florida now, where the pricetag for Hurricane Charley's eight-hour visit to Florida is estimated to be about $14 billion. The recovery process is underway, along with a massive effort to bring support services to the hardest-hit areas as rescue workers keep looking for survivors.
CNN's John Zarrella has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For three solid days, urban search and rescue teams have walked every block in Punta Gorda, knocked on every door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, fire rescue.
ZARRELLA: They've been looking for the missing and the dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And our mission today, it's basically accountability, make sure the tallies (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the only two here, and we're fine. We're fine, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about your neighbors? Do you know if anybody...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just left...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... they're an elderly couple...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... he and his wife just left. They're fine.
ZARRELLA: There is a growing sense here that fears of dozens of casualties will not be the case. There have already been two complete sweeps of the entire county by federal search teams, who...
WAYNE SALLADE, CHARLOTTE COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Targeted 31 mobile home parks. Went to all the condominiums and other buildings that we knew were compromised, went door to door, room to room. And they've not found anything.
ZARRELLA: Officials here believe people still unaccounted for simply haven't been able to get to a phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No phones, no power, no water. It just looks like a bomb hit the place.
ZARRELLA: A wireless company set up a mobile phone bank so people could get the word out to worried loved ones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on phone): Can you call John to let him know we're OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on phone): Did he get there OK? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, call everybody's coming, OK? Tell everybody that we're OK, all right?
ZARRELLA: As word gets out, as one person and then another makes contact, the number of missing is reduced.
Giselle de Augustaino (ph) can finally rest easy. Her sisters in Rochester know she's alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: And now while that search and rescue effort is winding down, it will continue, the authorities here say, until they are absolutely sure that everyone has been accounted for. And as that goes on, of course, people continue, shop owners continue to go through the rubble of what remains of their businesses here in downtown Punta Gorda, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, John Zarrella, thanks so much for that. Appreciate it tonight.
President Bush has announced a major change in the way the U.S. military will be deployed around the world. And in an election year, questions are already being raised about whether the strategy is military or political.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on the announcement and the reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush, in a campaign event before the Veterans of Foreign Wars, announced his plan to bring home up to 70,000 U.S. troops and 100,000 family members and civilians based overseas.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The new plan will help us fight and win these wars of the 21st century. It will strengthen our alliances around the world, while we build new partnerships to better preserve the peace.
MALVEAUX: The plan, one of the biggest troop redeployments since the end of the Korean War, is aimed at shifting military personnel initially assigned in Western Europe and Asia to deter the Soviets during the cold war. Troops would now be redeployed into smaller, more mobile units around the globe, able to quickly respond to terror.
The president says his plan to close hundreds of U.S. facilities overseas over the next 10 years will make life easier for military families and save the American taxpayers money.
Mr. Bush's opponent, Senator Kerry, says as president, he would add 40,000 troops to the global deployment. The president didn't talk specifically about the 150,000 U.S. troops temporarily deployed in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq. Nevertheless, the Bush campaign is hoping during this election season, this redeployment plan will demonstrate the president's commitment to the troops. Kerry has said he would withdraw U.S. troops from the Iraq conflict during his first six months if he were president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, as both sides compete for the military vote, White House officials acknowledge that any major shift in U.S. troops from Western Europe or Asia would take years of negotiations with allied countries, and also that any real changes are five to 10 years away, Heidi.
COLLINS: Suzanne Malveaux from the White House tonight. Suzanne, thanks.
A fast fact now. The United States has several hundred thousand troops based in countries overseas. Here are the top three. The area in and around Iraq comes in first, with about 120,000 U.S. troops there. Germany comes in second, with 70,000 U.S. troops. And Japan is in third with 40,000.
Here at home, the FBI says it was only doing its job when it questioned some activists about potential threats to this summer's political conventions. As you might imagine, those activists and others aren't buying it.
CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena has more now on the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-one- year-old Sarah Bardwell has participated in some political protests in the past, but she had no plans to attend either political convention and says none of her friends did either.
Still, she says, four FBI agents and two police officers showed up at her Denver home in July to ask her and her roommates if they or anyone they knew planned to engage in criminal activity in either Boston or New York.
SARAH BARDWELL, PEACE ACTIVIST: I think that the reason the FBI came to our house was to intimidate us out of using our First Amendment rights, and I think that they chose us because most of the people in my house have been politically involved.
ARENA: FBI officials acknowledge that after receiving information about possible disruptions at both political conventions, agents did interview a number of citizens in an effort to learn more. Officials say the threat information was specific.
For example, during the Democratic convention, the FBI said it had information about the possible bombing of media vans. BARBARA COMSTOCK, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: The FBI is following up on leads that they get to investigate criminal activity. But that that is not chilling activity, that is normal, everyday police practice.
ARENA: The FBI has issued bulletins ahead of other planned protests, warning agents about potential violence. The Justice Department has said the bulletins were constitutional because, quote, "threats of violent or destructive civil disturbance do not fall within the protection of the First Amendment." But the American Civil Liberties Union charges the government with stepping over the line.
ANN BEESON, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: When the FBI engages in tactics like that, that we begin to think of what happened in the 1960s and the 1970s when the FBI and CIA intentionally targeted antiwar protesters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The ACLU says not only is the FBI interviewing protesters, but infiltrating some of their meetings, all of which, it says, is seriously intimidating. In a statement released just this evening, the FBI says it is operating within the bounds of the Constitution, Heidi.
COLLINS: Kelli Arena, live from Washington tonight. Thanks, Kelli.
The federal government is taking over the job of checking airline passengers against terror watch lists. That story tops our look at news cross-country now.
Right now, the airlines do the screening, but the 9/11 commission complained the lists the airlines use are incomplete. It also said the government holds back information to avoid tipping off terrorists or allowing it to fall into the wrong hands.
Salt Lake City, Utah, a quick court appearance by Mark Hacking. He said nothing as the judge set a date in late September for a preliminary hearing. Hacking is charged with murdering his wife, Lori, last month while she slept, and dumping her body in a trash bin. Police have searched the landfill for two weeks now, but still no sign of Lori Hacking.
Chicago, she may be a rich and powerful celebrity, but like millions of Americans, Oprah Winfrey was chosen today to serve on a jury. The TV talk show host was escorted into criminal court, where she was picked for a jury on a murder case. And, like every other juror, Oprah will be paid $17.20 a day for her time.
That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, Kobe Bryant, his accuser in the spotlight. A trial date's been set, but will it really go forward? We'll have the latest. Plus, he said, he said. New Jersey's governor getting a boost in the polls as the man accusing him of sexual harassment goes public. We have the latest on the McGreevey sex scandal.
Also tonight, teachers, spanking your kids at school. Good discipline or bad punishment? We'll hear from both sides, part of our special series, Making the Grade.
But first, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Kobe Bryant's final pretrial hearing was held today. Jury selection is scheduled to begin next week. But given today's latest setback for the prosecution, some continue to wonder if a jury will be seated at all.
National correspondent Gary Tuchman has the latest now from Eagle, Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kobe Bryant and his attorneys got news they were hoping for from Judge Terry Ruckriegle. He told them the Colorado Supreme Court is letting one of his crucial decisions stand, which will allow evidence of the accuser's sexual history around the time she was with Bryant to be admitted in the trial, if there is a trial.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, COLORADO TRIAL ATTORNEY: After today, there is a slightly better chance we will have a trial. But I still think the smarter money says no trial, no criminal trial.
TUCHMAN: The woman's personal attorneys have declared they're heading toward a civil trial, where they'll ask for monetary damages. That, combined with the judge's decision last week denying a prosecution request to delay the criminal trial indefinitely while prosecutors regroup, increased speculation the case would be dropped.
But even with a strict gag order in place, the district attorney's office said on Monday, the prosecution plans to move forward to trial as scheduled. The woman's personal attorneys have said they are considering not having their client go forward with the criminal trial. But as of now, she is still scheduled to be the star prosecution witness.
CYNTHIA STONE, COLORADO COALITION AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT: She has actually stood fast during this process, which we think shows strength and conviction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: So far, 544 journalists are credentialed to cover this, which is a high total, but they're outnumbered by the prospective jurors being summoned, about 1,000, drawn from a county that only has 42,000 men, women, and children to begin with. So basically, one out of every 42 people who live in Eagle County have a piece of paper saying to come to this courthouse a week from Friday to deal with the Kobe Bryant case, Heidi.
COLLINS: Wow, that's quite a number. All right, Gary Tuchman live from Eagle, Colorado. Thanks, Gary.
When New Jersey Governor James McGreevey revealed he had had an extramarital affair with another man, it was clear there would be more to the story. And while state politicians maneuver over the future of the office, the past of the officeholder continues to be laid bar, as -- bare, that is -- as the supposed other man tells his side of the story.
Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even by today's political standards, it was an incredible announcement.
GOV. JAMES MCGREEVEY (D), NEW JERSEY: I am a gay American.
FEYERICK: The married father, New Jersey's governor, confessing he'd had an affair with a man.
MCGREEVEY: I engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man.
FEYERICK: But the man in question says he is straight, Golan Cipel, through his lawyer, telling CNN he is not gay. The former Israeli navy officer worked as head of New Jersey's department of homeland security until 2002. He was set to file a sexual harassment suit against the governor, Cipel telling the Israeli paper The Dios Ahranot (ph) that "McGreevey started up with me again and again. I reached a point where I was afraid to be alone with him."
Cipel's lawyer says his client was subjected to a series of sexual advances and assaults. Ultimately, Cipel gave in, his lawyer reading this statement.
ALLEN LOWY, ATTORNEY FOR GOLAN CIPEL: "Therefore, I have come to realize that my lack of strength was understandable. When I finally dared to reject Governor McGreevey's advances, the retaliatory actions taken by him and members of his administration were nothing short of abuse and intimidation."
FEYERICK: But aides to the governor accused Cipel of blackmail, and federal authorities in New Jersey are investigating. Cipel's lawyer denies it, saying it was McGreevey's lawyers who asked Cipel not to file a lawsuit, but instead resolve the matter another way.
A colleague who worked with Cipel in Israel tells CNN he had many girlfriends and that he is, quote, "not a person who is after money." Cipel told a colleague the last two years had been hell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Governor McGreevey was sequestered in the statehouse Monday, meeting with high-level staff, figuring out how to wrap up his term in 90 days. Tomorrow, he'll be focused on homeland security, leading tabletop exercise in preparation for the Republican National Convention, Heidi.
COLLINS: Which is just around the corner. All right. Deb Feyerick, thanks so much for that.
An American tank ambushed in Baghdad. That tops our look at global stories in the uplink.
Sadr City, the U.S. military says insurgents fired an improvised explosive device at the tank. The crew was rescued before the tank blew up. Sadr City is home to supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is involved in a major standoff against American and Iraqi troops in the holy city of Najaf.
Caracas, Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez beats back a referendum to remove him from office. Former president Jimmy Carter monitored the election and backs the results. But opponents of Chavez charged the vote was rigged.
Athens, Greece, another big Olympic victory for Iraq that no doubt gives a boost to the pride of millions back home. Iraq's soccer team scored two goals late in a match against Costa Rica and won. This victory now advances Iraq to the quarter-finals.
Over Bristol, England, this man is either a daredevil or completely out of his mind, or both. Look at this, now. He walked a beam between two hot-air balloons while blindfolded, of course. The stunt was part of an international balloon festival, and after making it safely across, he turned around and walked back the other way. When the stunt was over, the daredevil admitted he was a little nervous. Well, who wouldn't be?
That's tonight's uplink.
360 next, spanking in schools. Corporal punishment, legal in 22 states. But should it be? We'll hear from both sides, part of our special series, Making the Grade.
Also tonight, 10 days in jail for smoking around her kids. Find out why one mom had the book thrown at her.
And a little later, a Jackson family reunion, a show of force as Michael takes on his prosecutor. But will it help his case? We'll hear from both sides.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In the year 2000, more than 342,000 students were subjected to corporal punishment in the U.S. according to the Department of Education. And while the numbers are dropping, there are still many who defend the practice. Tonight, as we begin our back-to-school series, Making the Grade, CNN's Jason Bellini brings us one student's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the fourth day of school. Justin Causby got in trouble with his gym coach.
JUSTIN CAUSBY: Why'd you stop running, boy? And I said, Well, I have asthma and I'm tired.
BELLINI: Justin says the coach ordered him to pick up sticks from the field. A fellow student told the coach he heard Justin say something about him.
JUSTIN CAUSBY: I said, You suck. And he said, Boy, you got something to say, you say it to my face.
BELLINI: With another teacher as a witness, the coach paddled Justin three times.
LYNN CAUSBY, JUSTIN'S MOTHER: That wasn't corporal punishment. That was a beating. When you come home from school bleeding, blood on your underwear, that's not just a spanking for being a bad boy.
BELLINI: Justin's mom, Lynn Causby, filed a felony assault complaint against the coach. The Groveton Independent School District determined the coach did nothing wrong. School district officials declined our request for an interview.
(on camera): The school district's view is supported by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. It investigated the incident and found that the paddling did not meet its definition of abuse or neglect.
(voice-over): A grand jury declined to indict the coach on the felony abuse charge. The grand jury saw a note from Justin's doctor, saying Justin suffered traumatic injury.
JOE NED DEAN, TRINITY COUNTY D.A.: The doctor didn't prescribe any treatment. He said there was trauma. There's going to be trauma anytime a young, kind of heavyset kid gets a paddling.
BELLINI: Twenty-eight states have abolished corporal punishment, deeming it both cruel and ineffective. It's still allowed in 22 states, mostly in the Bible Belt. Proponents of corporal punishment say children aren't getting the discipline they need at home, and paddling beats suspension.
A. DIAL, RETIRED TEACHER: Forty-five years in the teaching business, if a kid needed his butt whipped, he got it, and usually it helped.
BELLINI: Lynn Causby home-schooled Justin the rest of the year. At Groveton schools, teachers still determine when to use corporal punishment. Jason Bellini, CNN, Groveton, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services admits it did not interview Justin in determining he was not the victim of abuse. The only -- they only spoke with his school superintendent, who said the coach did nothing wrong. We were unable to reach the coach for comment.
Joining me now to talk more about corporal punishment, a supporter, Hubon Sandridge. He's a member of Memphis, Tennessee's board of education, which is currently debating this issue. On the other side, Robert Fathman. He started the National Coalition to Abolish Corporal Punishment in Schools after his then-6-year-old daughter was paddled with a thick board even after he told the school not to touch her.
Gentlemen, welcome to both of you tonight.
HUBON SANDRIDGE, MEMPHIS CITY SCHOOLS BOARD OF EDUCATION. Thank you, Heidi.
ROBERT FATHMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks for being here.
I want to begin with you, Mr. Sandridge, if I could, please. Tell me why corporal punishment is a good idea.
SANDRIDGE: Corporal punishment is a good idea, number one, the Bible teaches in Proverbs 22 and 6, "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and he will not depart." The bottom line for this, Heidi, is, in our nation, the lack of parental involvement, 64 percent is the problem we face.
It's not about punishment. It's about discipline. It's about training. And when parents are not training their children, and the numbers are staggering at 64 percent, especially in impoverished areas and urban areas, we must deal with students accordingly if they violate policy, and I...
COLLINS: Mr. Fathman, let me ask you, sir, if parents aren't doing their job, whose job is it to do?
FATHMAN: Well, parents are doing their job. I, you know, parents love their children, they're bringing them up the best that they can. And schools fill in during the day. But it isn't parents' job to pick up boards and hit children with it. It's not school's job to do it. It's the school's job to educate the children, not to beat them.
SANDRIDGE: Let me make it perfectly clear, if I may, Heidi, no child is being abused. When you're dealing with corporal punishment, there is a policy in place. The principal, along with an administrative assistant, is present. Parents have to give... FATHMAN: Yes, but that doesn't mean that they're not being abused, reverend...
SANDRIDGE: Let me make -- let me...
FATHMAN: ... with all due respect to you.
SANDRIDGE: ... if I may (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FATHMAN: There are 8,000 children a year going to doctors' offices and...
SANDRIDGE: Let me...
FATHMAN: ... hospital emergency rooms...
SANDRIDGE: Let me...
FATHMAN: ... with teacher-inflicted...
SANDRIDGE: All right...
FATHMAN: ... injuries like that little boy in Texas.
SANDRIDGE: That little boy...
COLLINS: Mr. Sandridge, go ahead and complete your thought.
FATHMAN: That little boy in Texas is one case. Sir, when 64 percent of our parents are not training their children, it's a God- given responsibility. We cannot administer corporal punishment without a parental consent. So everyone understands we're not talking about abuse. We're talking about training children who do not receive training at home. And if God has ordained that, I agree with that.
FATHMAN: You know...
COLLINS: Mr. Fathman, let me ask you, what does happen if this type of punishment backfires, if you will?
FATHMAN: You mean when children are injured, like little Justin?
COLLINS: Right.
FATHMAN: When children are injured like that, parents have absolutely no recourse. Court after court, just like in Texas, has upheld the teacher's rights to injure children, and parents have no right to protect them from that. Only in one of the 22 paddling states do parents have right under law to prevent paddling being done to their children. In the other 20...
COLLINS: Can they not pull the child out of that school?
FATHMAN: And then do what with them, pay for private school tuition?
SANDRIDGE: Well...
FATHMAN: Not everyone can do that. If you pull a child out of school -- Mrs. Causby is now driving her child 25 miles one way to get him into a neighboring district.
SANDRIDGE: But that was (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FATHMAN: Lots of parents work, and can't do that.
SANDRIDGE: That was Ms. Causby's choice. Again I say...
FATHMAN: Well, it was her choice to protect her child.
COLLINS: Pardon me, Mr. Sandridge, the last word here now.
SANDRIDGE: The last word is, train up a child in the way that he or she should go, and he or she will not depart. That's the Bible. I stand there, and I believe the people of this nation stand there as well.
FATHMAN: Lots of people...
COLLINS: Thank...
FATHMAN: ... interpret that Bible entirely differently. Do you want to hit children with boards like this? That's not the Jesus of my faith when you do something like that.
SANDRIDGE: Well, let me, let me say this to you...
COLLINS: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. I apologize...
SANDRIDGE: Spare the rod, spoil the child.
COLLINS: ... we're running out of time.
Thank you so much, Cuban Sandridge...
SANDRIDGE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: ... and Robert Fathman, appreciate your time tonight...
FATHMAN: Thank you very much, Heidi, I appreciate being with you.
COLLINS: ... both of you.
SANDRIDGE: Thank you.
COLLINS: Today's "Buzz" is this, "Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools? Log on to CNN.com/360 to vote. We'll have the results coming up at the end of the show. Our series "Making the Grade" continues tomorrow night with a look at abstinence education. Teens taught to say no to sex. Why are so many still saying yes, and getting pregnant? Wednesday, "Reading at Risk." Research shows an alarming decline in reading across America. Are we spiraling toward illiteracy? Thursday, single sex schools. The pros, the cons. Is it the best environment for your child? Then, Friday, a look at Deep Springs College where students call the shots. Find out why it's being called the most successful experiment in higher education in U.S. history.
Intimidation tactic, the King of Pop shows up in court to witness the confrontation firsthand. Michael Jackson in a face-off with the prosecutor.
And a mother tastes jail time for smoking in front of her children. Fair or not? You be the judge. 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The tables were turned for Michael Jackson during a pretrial hearing today. Jackson was in court to hear what the district attorney had to say from the witness stand. At issue, whether the DA overstepped his authority during the investigation into allegations that Jackson molested a child. Covering the case for us in "Justice Served" tonight is Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom and from Miami, defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Hi.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi.
COLLINS: How are you? Glad you guys are here. Lisa, I want to ask you about this right off the bat. Unusual hearing where the prosecutor actually becomes the witness. What exactly is it at stake here?
BLOOM: Well, the best defense is a good offense, right? And so, as you said, he's turned the table. Michael Jackson personally comes to this pretrial hearing, not necessary, not required, but knowing that all of the news cameras will be focused on him and more broadly on this hearing which is all about whether the DA misstepped, overstepped his bounds in executing a search warrant and doing some personal surveillance of an investigator.
COLLINS: Jayne, I hear you giggling.
WEINTRAUB: Giggling? No, I was sighing. I guess, Lisa, you forget to read the constitution lately. Michael Jackson has a constitutional right to be present at every critical stage of the proceedings...
BLOOM: Of course he does.
WEINTRAUB: And, Lisa, this is one of them. This is not a grandstanding. In anyone's grandstanding, it's the media, not Michael Jackson. This is serious stuff and today was very, very serious, and Lisa, can you ever name another case where the DA himself was called to the witness stand by the judge? There were pleadings that went back and forth, Heidi, and what happened is obviously, the judge did not take Tom Sneddon's word for it and obviously wanted Sneddon placed under oath. It's extraordinary.
BLOOM: Well, Sneddon agreed to be placed under oath because he says he has nothing to hide. And look, it is unusual, Jayne, I'll grant you that, but it's not unheard of for an attorney to have to talk about something that happened in a case and whether it was proper or improper. Ultimately the trial...
WEINTRAUB: Lisa, he is...
BLOOM: ...this case is going to be about Michael Jackson, not about Tom Sneddon.
WEINTRAUB: It's about what Tom Sneddon has made it, Lisa, he injected himself...
BLOOM: That's not what this hearing is about. This hearing is about a very narrow issue, whether Tom Sneddon knew that Geragos...
WEINTRAUB: Right, the impropriety of (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BLOOM: ...had retained a particular investigator. He either knew or he didn't know. The investigator either was or wasn't retained. And this issue will be long forgotten by the time trial rolls around.
COLLINS: Let me get to a new question here. Let's talk about this. The Jackson camp has said many times that the district attorney has this vendetta against Michael Jackson. How bad is it if the public actually agrees with that?
WEINTRAUB: I think that for the good of the case, for both sides, state as well as the defense, I think Sneddon needs to step away and step down. It's not just the impropriety. I think Lisa will even agree, it's the appearance of impropriety that Sneddon has a personal stake in the outcome of the case. And that is going to hurt the case for the state and for the defense, it's going to damage the defense because he does have a personal vendetta and driving it home.
BLOOM: The guy is the chief law enforcement officer. I see nothing wrong with him being involved in law enforcement activities. This is the normally the kind of thing that gets delegated. But this isn't a normal case. This is a case against Michael Jackson. If he wanted to handle some matters personally, get involved in it himself, I see nothing improper about that.
WEINTRAUB: Lisa, I've tried over 100 murder trials. I have never in my life been put in a position where I would I let myself become a witness in a case.
BLOOM: That doesn't--Jayne, what ethical rule, what law or statute does it violate for him to conduct the surveillance himself?
COLLINS: Ladies, we're going to have to leave it here. Sorry about that. Appreciate your time tonight, both of you so very much. Lisa Bloom, Jayne Weintraub, thanks guys. More "Tales of the Tape" today in the case of Scott Peterson now for the fourth day, Amber Frey took the stand as recorded phone conversations between her and the accused killer were played for the jury. In one exchange, Peterson admits to lying to Frey but insists, quote, "I'm not an evil person." The prosecution begs to differ. CNN's Ted Rowlands has the latest from the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jurors heard another full day of taped conversations between Amber Frey and Scott Peterson. On these tapes, Frey, who was working with police at the time, grilled Peterson about his lies and tried to get him to open up by telling him how upset she was.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
AMBER FREY: And not to have this--this fear inside my heart that you had something to do with this and that you may have possibly and potentially have killed your wife.
SCOTT PETERSON: No, you don't need to have that fear. You know me well enough.
AMBER FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: I'm not an evil guy.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
ROWLANDS: At one point today, Scott Peterson's mother started to cry while listening to her son on the tapes recount the true story of how she was hospitalize due to stress during the search for Laci. Amber Frey also broke down at one point during a portion of the tape where she was sobbing about how devastating the ordeal had been for her. Frey said "I was so happy to have met you." Peterson replied, "I'm sorry I ruined that." Also today, jurors heard Peterson tell Amber Frey that Laci knew about their affair and had accepted it. Frey argued with Peterson about whether or not that could have been true.
GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTORNEY: What pregnant woman do you know who would be fine with her husband having a girlfriend? Who was he kidding?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Court has adjourned for the day. Jurors will hear more tapes when court reconvenes here tomorrow morning. It is expected the defense will have their opportunity to cross-examine Amber Frey on Wednesday. Heidi?
COLLINS: Alright, Ted Rowlands, thanks so much for the update on that. And joining us for more on the Peterson case is Court TV anchor Catherine Crier. Catherine, thanks to you also for being here. OK, so we heard that Frey testified today. She was told by Peterson that Laci knew Scott was having this affair with another woman but it didn't bother her.
CATHERINE CRIER, COURT TV ANCHOR: You could hear the groans across the courtroom. And certainly I could in my studio. I don't think there's a woman on the planet that bought that and probably most men, but it goes along with the kind of information we're hearing from this guy. These extraordinary lies, the adventures, the fantasies from New Year's Day and all the places he was traveling in Europe and when he turns to her and says I never lied to you, and she laughs and he goes well, not really. This guy is a little bit unbalanced.
COLLINS: We also heard Frey talking about another affair she had with another married man. Now, what does that do to her credibility?
CRIER: It really doesn't do much because the weight of this exchange will be Scott's words, his words are on tape. Geragos can complain is that she was trying to set him up. He can complain she had a vendetta, but ultimately the jurors are listening to his words and they will acquit or convict him.
COLLINS: OK, I want to read part of a conversation now played in court today. It's about the relationship between Amber Frey and what she tells Peterson is this, "When people find out, and they will, no one will think your behavior is innocent." But here, his mistress is clearly skeptical of him. How could that actually impact the injury knowing that she really knows this and that she is questioning him hard?
CRIER: Well, I think they're listening to her as an interrogator because they know she is a foil for the cops. She is out there acting in their stead so...
COLLINS: Does that make a difference that she was being prompted possibly?
CRIER: No, because either the man is going to say something confessional or he's not and I think he protests too much. He says, you know, I am innocent, I am not an evil person. I had nothing to do with the disappearance, but as far as I'm concerned, the longer I listen, the more I truly believe he knew he was likely being taped.
COLLINS: Really?
CRIER: Mm-hmm.
COLLINS: I've not heard that yet. How can you tell? Just by the tone of his voice, or...
CRIER: I think he's very deliberate, very flat affect. The way he responds to things, the way he injects a defense at particular points in time. I also think as a rational human being, would you stay on the phone with this woman even if you loved her who was interrogating and going over and over the same--what's the point of this conversation? And the only point in my mind was he wanted to get his bits in thinking maybe the cops were listening.
COLLINS: All right, Catherine Crier, thanks so much for your insight on all of this tonight. Appreciate it.
A mom put in the slammer for smoking. 360 next. Why a judge is telling this woman to stay away from cigarettes.
Plus, ad icons, seeking your vote. Find out why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For Tamara Silvius, her weakness is tobacco. A judge in Bowling Green, Virginia said when Tamara smokes, she cannot be with her kids. But she says she can't stop smoking. Her addiction to cigarettes has led to jail time for a second time due to contempt of court charges. For now, she's out of jail appealing the latest ruling. Earlier, I spoke with Tamara Silvius.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: Tamara, you defied a court order that said you couldn't smoke around your kids who are, for the viewers at home, eight and ten years old, but now you're facing jail time. Tell us why you continued to smoke.
TAMARA SILVIUS, WOMAN JAILED FOR SMOKING: I think smoking is something that I have chosen to do and that I do. And but I will not smoke at all near my children or even my children will not see me smoke at all, in other words.
COLLINS: Why don't you just stop smoking?
SILVIUS: Because I'm an adult, and I do not choose to quit smoking, but if a court orders that I will not smoke at all while my children are at my house or with me, I will not smoke at all.
COLLINS: Do you have a hard time believing that it's come to this, though, that the smoking has come to you not being able to see your kids as much as you want and facing jail time and all of those things?
SILVIUS: I honestly think that I'm really amazed that the entire court order has come to this point. It's not just the issue of smoking in the court order that concerns me. It's also the alcohol, where I cannot consume alcohol 24 hours prior to visitation, nor can I or anybody in their presence consume alcohol, which means you being of legal age cannot come to my home and perform a legal activity as long as my kids are there because I cannot allow it because it's in this court order.
COLLINS: But you now are appealing that ten days in jail, the sentence of ten days in jail. What makes you think that another judge may have a different opinion in this case?
SILVIUS: You know, I truly believe I was abiding by the court order. I had not smoked in my house, I had not smoked in my truck. The only place the children ever saw me smoke was outside and I truly believe that that was abiding by the court order because they were not in an enclosed area where secondhand smoke was an issue, and I really truly believed I was abiding by it.
COLLINS: Have you ever been able to talk with your kids about it? They are eight and ten. Do they have any comprehension of what's going on here?
SILVIUS: I kind of really, really hope they do not. Although they are old enough where they do. And I'm really, really ashamed that my ex-husband brought my kids into court to speak with the judge. That just really, really are bothers me. And I certainly hope they're not affected by this.
COLLINS: We certainly wish you and your family the very best in all of this. Tamara Silvius, thanks so much for your time tonight.
SILVIUS: Thank you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: 360 next, will the Michelin Man beat out Tony the Tiger? The race for America's favorite advertising icon gets underway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For Olympic organizers, this may turn out to be the summer of their discontent. It's not the games or the venues or security. It's the fans. No, they're not loud or unruly. They're missing.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Impressive start for Puerto Rico.
COLLINS (voice-over): A near-capacity crowd watched the U.S. basketball team take a beating from Puerto Rico Sunday. But when Venus Williams beat her Hungarian opponent in straight sets, only about 500 fans were scattered through a stadium that holds 8600. And that seems to be the rule rather than the exception in the opening days of the 2004 Summer Olympics. Baseball's been a bust. Weight lifters and wrestlers, archers, soccer players, gymnasts all played to paltry crowds.
Even beach volleyball failed to attract much attention. Let's look at the numbers. The Greeks spent $7 billion to bring the Olympics home, they put 5.2 million tickets on the block and in a population of nearly 11 million, today, ticket sale creeped past the 3 million mark. So why the apparently poor showing? Well, there was the well-publicized race to finish many venues and worries over security. Then there's the weather. Near 90 degree temperatures every day. Great for sun bathing, not so great for spectating. Or it could be a lack of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have games that Greek people don't know or doesn't like.
COLLINS: Then there's scandal. Two of Greece's best medal hopes, sprinters Kostantinos Kenteris and Katerina Thanou have been withdrawn by the Olympic Committee after failing to show for a mandatory drug test. But organizers aren't panicking, not yet anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People will be coming back and buying tickets.
COLLINS: They had better if organizers want to find themselves taking home the gold when the Games end or simply swimming in red.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COLLINS: It's the election we've been waiting for. No, not that one. I'm talking about the one where being cartoonish a plus and two- dimensional a compliment. Jeanne Moos goes "Inside the Box" for more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about convention bounce. It's the Michelin Man versus the Pillsbury Doughboy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hohoho.
MOOS: It's the Jolly Green Giant versus Tony the Tiger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're grrrrrreat!
MOOS: No dirty tricks for Mr. Clean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES: ...Mr. Clean gets rid of dirt and grime.
MOOS: But will Mr. Clean be able to get rid of Mr. Peanut?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's one of the few figures in America who literally knows he's nuts.
MOOS: There were campaign buttons, hats and posters. Quack the Vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AFLAC.
MOOS: That's the AFLAC duck in the jaws of Charlie the Tuna. There are 26 candidates in the race for most beloved advertising icon. You can cast your vote online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to like Tony the Tiger when I was little.
MOOS: Let's get him over here. Sorry Charlie, you're out of the picture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember you when I was little.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frosted flakes are great!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To tell you the truth, I never had a cereal. I just liked Tony.
MOOS: The icons gathered gingerly on the steps of New York City Hall where they were greeted by a former mayor who denied resembling Mr. Clean.
ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: I am not bald. I am balding.
MOOS: But if you add the earring...
The point of the contest seems to be to advertise advertising. At the ripe age of 60, this icon is looking good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! Chiquita Banana...
MOOS: Well, who did you think you were talking to?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at all the fruit on my head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I was talking to Carmen Miranda. That's my day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Clean will clean your whole house.
MOOS: And though this guy was leaning towards voting for Mr. Clean...
Are you having second thoughts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot to be said for Chiquita bananas.
MOOS: It drove security bananas when Mr. Peanut set off a metal detector.
I'd check this guy's hat.
When things are so bad they have to wand Mr. Peanut, the world really has gone nuts. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Oh. The only thing we're missing is the Lucky Charms leprechaun.
Well, today's "Buzz." Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools? We'll have the results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time now for the "Buzz." Earlier we asked, "Do you think spanking is an appropriate form of punishment in schools?" 30 percent said "Yes," 70 percent voted "No." This is not a scientific poll but it is your "Buzz."
I'm Heidi Collins in for Anderson Cooper. Up next, PAULA ZAHN NOW.
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