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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Amber Frey Cross-Examined; Kerry Fires Back at Bush Over Swift Boat Ads
Aired August 23, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York, I'm Anderson Cooper.
Scott Peterson's mistress on the stand and under fire.
360 starts now.
Amber Frey grilled on the stand. Mark Geragos goes after Scott Peterson's other woman. Will her testimony hold up under cross- examination?
John Kerry fires back at the president, saying, stop the swift boat smear. President says the ad should stop, but has the damage already been done?
Two Christian camp counselors killed while sleeping on a California beach. Was their murder linked to their religious beliefs?
A 10-year-old boy trained to fight the U.S. A shocking look at the baby face of Muqtada al-Sadr's militia.
A serial killer responsible for eight deaths now linked to a university professor and a poem. Are the police getting closer to finding the infamous BTK killer?
And all for a laugh, or gag gone too far? An HBO show angers some Jewish Americans. The singalong that has some people shouting.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And a good evening again.
There are lawyers who keep a low profile, there are lawyers who stay in the shadows, and then there's Mark Geragos. For days now, he's had to sit listening to his client's lies tape recorded and played to a packed courtroom by none other than Amber Frey, Peterson's mistress turned star witness.
Today, finally, Geragos got his first chance to strike back, cross-examining Frey. For court watchers expecting a show, Geragos didn't disappoint.
CNN's Ted Rowlands was in the courtroom. He joins us live from Redwood City, California. Good evening, Ted. TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Anderson.
And that show will spill into tomorrow. Court has adjourned for the day. You talk about those lies. Geragos used Amber Frey to establish that Scott Peterson started lying about his planned trips immediately after meeting her at a restaurant the first night. Within three hours of first meeting Amber Frey, he told her he was an international salesman that was planning to go to Europe, to Paris and Brussels. His parents lived in Maine.
Geragos tried to establish that Peterson was tied to those lies from the very beginning, and that is why he sounded so strange on those recordings after his wife was missing.
Frey admitted on the stand that it was her idea initially to tell Peterson that she was pregnant. That first day she met with detectives, she said that she had unprotected sex with Peterson, and she said it would be a good idea if she told him she was pregnant.
At one point Geragos said, quote, "You thought you could convince him that you were pregnant." She said that it was a possibility.
Frey has been strong on the stand, answering all of Mark Geragos's questions very coolly and calmly. Geragos has not attacked her like he has Modesto police detectives. He has prodded her and he has been relentless when she's refused to go along with his train of thought. However, she's standing tough. She will be, however, back on the stand tomorrow, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Ted Rowlands, live from Redwood. Thanks very much, Ted. We're going to have more on this case a little bit later on with 360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom and criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.
If you thought the start of a new work week would bring a new news cycle that's moved beyond a presidential campaign still splitting hairs over service in a war fought 30 years ago, you'd be wrong. Like it or not, think it's relevant or not, swift boats again dominated the presidential race today.
In Texas, President Bush went a bit farther in his criticism of the swift boat spots, but not far enough to suit the Kerry campaign.
With the president, here's CNN's Jill Dougherty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush, at his ranch with top officials, discussed national security. But fielding questions from reporters, the subject turned once again to those TV attack ads, specifically one funded by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That means that ad, every other ad. Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it, and I wish, I hope my opponent joins me in saying condemning these activities of the 527s. It's the, I think they're bad for the system.
DOUGHERTY: The Kerry campaign has challenged the president to condemn the swift boat ads. He didn't do it by name, but this was the first time Mr. Bush used the words "that ad."
The White House downplayed the remark, claiming no change in the president's opposition to all soft money attack ads.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: So the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had the issued a written response to the comments by President Bush today, a statement by the founder, Roy Hoffman, saying, "It would make no difference if John Kerry were a Republican, Democrat, or an independent. Swift boat veterans would still be speaking the truth concerning John Kerry's military service record in Vietnam, his actions after returning home, and his lack of qualifications to be the next commander in chief."
And the statement went on to say that they are an independent organization, and that John Kerry made this an issue in the campaign. They will continue to take their message to the American people, Anderson.
COOPER: More ads, that means. Jill Dougherty, thanks very much.
We're going to talk with Terry Holt from the Bush campaign as well as Michael Meehan, an adviser to Senator John Kerry, a little bit later on in the program about this ad and these series of ads in particular.
A new CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll today released just minutes ago shows the presidential race is a dead heat in Florida. Registered voters are split evenly, 45 to 45 percent, between Bush and Kerry, with 3 percent opting for Ralph Nader. In the same poll, likely voters favored Bush 48-46 percent, with 2 percent favoring Nader. But those differences are really well within the 4-point margin of error, a statistical dead heat there.
Nearly three years after their capture, four suspected terrorists are about to have their first day in court. Trials are still months away, but preliminary hearings begin tomorrow at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Now, one of the prisoners is an Australian national who's accused of fighting with the Taliban against U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
CNN's Susan Candiotti has his story from Guantanamo Bay.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's a bull- riding cowboy from southern Australia, and now David Hicks finds himself thrown into a legal arena with worldwide spectators.
His attorney says this photo of Hicks posing with a rocket- propelled grenade launcher was just him goofing off. MAJOR MICHAEL MORI, HICKS'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He's about five- foot-three, and he just strikes me as a good Aussie.
CANDIOTTI: He grew up in Australia, a freckle-faced boy. This family photo shows one of his two children, reportedly born by the time Hicks was 20.
ANDREW WHITE, FORMER NEIGHBOR: He was a good boy, never done anything wrong while he was here in Australia. So it's hard to believe what he's done.
CANDIOTTI: According to the Pentagon, Hicks joined the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999, converted to Islam back in Australia, and fought in Pakistan. In 2001, Hicks allegedly joined an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, met Osama bin laden, and translated training materials from Arabic into English.
After the September 11 attacks, Hicks is accused of fighting coalition forces and allegedly was part of a group that included American Taliban John Walker Lindh.
MORI: I can tell you, you know, David Hicks has not injured any U.S. service member, he hasn't injured any U.S. citizen. And his own country has looked at what he's done and said that he has not violated any law of Australia.
CANDIOTTI: The Pentagon has charged Hicks with the attempted murder of coalition forces and helping al-Qaeda. When Hicks appears in court Wednesday, his nervous father and stepmother will be there.
TERRY HICKS, FATHER OF THE ACCUSED: We haven't seen David for five years. We don't know what his condition's like, what his mental state's like. So it's -- I think it's going to be a pretty emotional meeting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: If found guilty, Hicks faces life in prison. Under an agreement with the Australian government, any sentence would be served there, Anderson.
COOPER: Susan, so this guy joined the KLA in Kosovo, he fought in Pakistan, allegedly, he's photographed with a grenade launcher, which, I guess, his friends say was just kind of a joke. What is his defense?
CANDIOTTI: Well, we won't know that, of course, until the trial begins. However, according to his attorney, this was someone who was an adventurer, and he certainly seems to have found a lot of that.
Back to you.
COOPER: Certainly has. Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.
An admission from the highest-ranking soldier accused in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal. That story tops our look at news cross- country tonight.
Hagerstown, Maryland, Army Sergeant Chip Fredericks, seen there, says he violated the law and will plead guilty to some of the charges against him. Now, he's accused of mistreating prisoners, conspiracy, dereliction of duty, and committing indecent acts. Frederick goes before a military judge tomorrow. It's not clear which of those he's going to plead guilty to.
New York, now, a sad statistic, 14 of the dogs used to dig for the rubble at ground zero have died since 9/11. Now, eight of them from cancer. What is not known is if there is a actual link to chemicals the animals were exposed to.
Chicago, batter up, Wrigley Field is declared safe, so the clubs -- the Cubs will take on the Milwaukee tonight. After all, rumors of shoddy repair work threatened to close Wrigley down after small chunks of concrete fell from the upper decks.
Those are some of the stories in the cross-country (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
360 next, Christian camp counselors murdered execution-style. The couple shot in the head as they slept on a California beach. Days later, police think the case just might be linked to another killing in Arizona, and questions about whether or not it was a hate crime.
Plus, meet a child soldier whose father actually trained him to shoot. He is just 10 years old, but in an army fighting and trying to kill Americans.
And cold case file, the BTK serial killer. Police find a clue, a professor, and a poem. But what do the pieces add up to? All that ahead.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the camp is closed, the campers gone, and the Christian counselors are being remembered for how they lived, not how they died. But for police in California, how they died is priority one right now.
The counselors were murdered, shot at close range while they slept on a remote California beach. They had never seen anything like it, the police said, until they found out what happened nearly 1,000 miles away.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-year- old Brandon Rumbaugh (ph) and 19-year-old Lisa Gurary (ph) were found shot to death in their sleeping bags while they were camping 60 miles north of Scottsdale, Arizona. That was back in October.
Last week in northern California, the bodies of 23-year-old Lindsey Cutshaw (ph) and 26-year-old Jason Allen were found in their sleeping bags, also shot in the head.
LT. DAVE EDMONDS, SONOMA COUNTY SHERIFF DEPARTMENT: We haven't been able to establish a motive for this crime. It's very disconcerting and disturbing.
GUTIERREZ: Investigators have exchanged information in each case, and while there are some similarities -- both couples were young, and they were camping in remote areas -- investigators say there are significant differences, well, though they would not go into detail. They did, however, point out Cutshaw and Allen did not appear to have enemies.
EDMONDS: They were Christian missionaries of sorts, and they made it their habit to help out with Christian endeavors. One of the endeavors they were presently on was helping out at a Christian camp.
GUTIERREZ: Investigators did not rule out the possibility of a hate crime or any other motive, and say it may be an isolated incident.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The investigation is still well underway.
Legal gymnastics over Olympic gold medal winner Paul Hamm tops our look at what's going on around the world in the uplink.
In Athens, Greece, the U.S. Olympic Committee is willing to support the awarding of a second gold in the men's all-around gymnastics competition. A scoring error denied the gold to Hamm's South Korean competitor, who was awarded the bronze. But some in Athens say, Not so fast, that existing rules really don't allow for a second gold medal. We'll see.
Paris, France, now, an Islamic militant group that almost no one's ever heard of claims responsibility for a fire at a Jewish soup kitchen. A statement was posted on a Web site. French officials don't know yet if it's authentic.
Havana Cuba, now, keep your aid money. Cuba rejects the Bush administration's offer of $50,000 to help clean up the damage caused by Hurricane Charley. They call it hypocritical in the face of a four-decade economic blockade.
Oslo, Norway, now, Edvard Munch's world-famous painting "The Scream" was not insured. Hard to believe. Enough to make art lovers scream. The priceless painting and his "Madonna" were snatched from the Munch Museum by armed robbers.
It was actually caught in action by this surveillance camera, right there, there's one of the, there's two of the guys. Security is, was minimal, which is odd, since a different version of the masterpiece was stolen from a different Oslo museum 10 years ago. That one was recovered. That was the getaway car.
That's a quick look at tonight's uplink.
In Iraq, U.S. warplanes today again pounded the positions of militiamen in Najaf loyal to Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
After the bombings, gunfire erupted around the mosque in the center of the city. Militia members inside the shrine say they are awaiting the arrival of a delegation of religious authorities who are expected to assume custody of the site.
Whether that actually happens remains to be seen. They've said it before. Al-Sadr's militiamen also control vast slums in Baghdad, particularly Sadr City, where some of the fighters are actually children.
CNN's John Vause met some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a grenade in one hand and a brand-new AK-47 in the other, Karrar Nouri is a volunteer in Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army. He's just 10 years old.
KARRAR NOURI, CHILD SOLDIER (through translator): I am a guard with the Mehdi Army against the Americans.
VAUSE: He's spending school vacation manning a checkpoint in Sadr City, a sprawling slum in Baghdad and stronghold for the rebellious cleric. The boy's father says Karrar has taken part in the fighting against U.S. and Iraqi forces.
FALAH NOURI, FATHER (through translator): I taught him how to shoot. He can now shoot by himself.
VAUSE: He's not the only boy with a gun in Sadr City. There are many others, most in their teens, but a few are younger than Karrar. The U.S. military says they have been fired on by boys. They return with warning shots to try and scare them off.
CAPT. JOHN MEREDITH, U.S. ARMY: Just the fact that they would resort to those kind of tactics kind of tells you who we're fighting.
VAUSE: The Iraqi government says just two children have been killed, 20 wounded, in Sadr City during the recent outbreak of violence. No one knows how many were actually fighting, and how many were caught in the crossfire.
But local doctors say the number is much higher. On the day we spoke with Dr. Adel Mezher, he says eight bodies were brought to his hospital, six of them children.
DR. ADEL MEZHER, SADR CITY HOSPITAL (through translator): They were all civilians. Most died inside their homes, killed by mortars and rockets. We don't know who fired at them.
VAUSE: Here, the so-called Mehdi Army holds almost mythical status.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Mehdi Army is composed of the orphans of those who were murdered in the prisons of Saddam Hussein. They now chant, "We are the Mehdi Army. This is the pride for us."
VAUSE (on camera): Much of Muqtada al-Sadr's support is the legacy of his late father, the Grand Ayatollah Mohammed al-Sadr. Admired and respected for his opposition to Saddam Hussein, he was shot dead five years ago. But it seems that family reputation for defiance is now inspiring a young new generation of the Mehdi Army. Only this time, it's defiance of the U.S. and the Iraqi interim government.
John Vause, CNN, Sadr City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ten-year-olds with guns, hard to believe.
Here's a fast fact for you, though. More than half a million kids under the age of 18 have been recruited as soldiers in more than 85 countries around the world, that according to Amnesty International. It estimates that 300,000 of those kids are actively fighting in armed conflicts around the world at any given time.
360 next, serial killer BTK has been on the loose for decades. Now an old folk song may actually help police crack the case. Some interesting clues ahead.
Also tonight, the Democrats say it's a smear campaign. The president says he's not behind it. The swift boat ads take on a life of their own, and both campaigns speak out coming up.
And a little later, comedy, a singalong, and charges of anti- Semitism. Ali G walks a fine line that has him in some hot water.
360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SINGER (singer): Oh, death, oh, death, won't you spare me over till another year?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: That's an old folk song which plays an important role in this next story.
It has been 25 years since anybody heard from a mysterious serial killer known as BTK. That stands for bind, torture, and kill. Police in Kansas believe the BTK killed eight people three decades ago, and they say he's back again, resuming his trademark practice of mailing bits and pieces of evidence about crimes committed in the past.
Investigators in Wichita are again seeking the public's help trying to actually connect the dots between the murderer, a university professor, and that old folk song.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The killer's communication began in 1977.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will find a homicide...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: It was a call to Wichita, Kansas, police from a man with a location of Nancy Fox, a woman who had been strangled. In the months that followed, a series of letters arrived at Wichita media outlets with photos and details about other murders.
The killer called himself BTK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BTK stands for bind, torture, and kill.
OPPENHEIM: Two years later, police said BTK had claimed responsibility for seven deaths dating back to 1974.
Then communications stopped until March of this year, when "The Wichita Eagle" got a letter with details of a possible eighth victim, a woman killed in 1986. Police said BTK was back.
HURST LAVIANA, "WICHITA EAGLE" POLICE REPORTER: The big question, no one knows where has he been for 25 years.
OPPENHEIM: Since then, investigators say three more letters were sent by BTK. One included a chapter heading that read "PJs." Police suspected that was a reference to Dr. P.J. Wyatt, a Wichita State English teacher who taught a course on folklore in the 1970s.
In 1978, BTK sent a poem called "Oh, Death to Nancy," which police believe was based on an old folk song called, "Oh, Death," a song that was a regular part of one of Dr. Wyatt's courses.
LT. KEN LANDWEHR, WICHITA, KANSAS, POLICE: We are looking for the public's help on identifying anyone who has used this obscure folk song and can contact with Dr. PJ Wyatt.
OPPENHEIM: Dr. Wyatt died in 1991, but police hope that someone who knew her or knows more about an old song, could lead them to a serial murderer.
Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: As we said, police are appealing for your help. They often turn to profilers to help them catch killers like these. Tonight, we turn to Candice Delong, a former FBI profiler. She is in San Francisco.
Candice, thanks very much for being with us.
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: You're welcome.
COOPER: What do you make of this?
DELONG: Well, I think the most significant thing is that he reemerged this past March after such a long period of not hearing from him.
COOPER: Twenty-five years.
DELONG: Right. And apparently claiming credit for a murder 20 years old. Which makes me wonder, where, of course, where he has been for 20 years? Why didn't he claim that murder 20 years ago? Was he somewhere where it was not safe to communicate with the paper (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: I.e., prison, something like that, you're saying.
DELONG: Right.
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I mean, do killers just -- if someone who has communicated like this, do they just give up communicating for a time? I mean, is it possible he wasn't anywhere, that he just decided to go underground for a while?
DELONG: It's possible. Fortunately, there are not thousands and thousands of serial killer cases that we can look at to get statistics from. This is without question unusual. It has happened that serial killers have taken a hiatus. Course, of course, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we need to remember, he hasn't resumed killing that we know of. But Ted Kaczynski went underground for six years.
COOPER: And the police have released this old poem related to this folk song. And I'm going to put up some of the lyrics on the screen. They're pretty disturbing stuff, though the actual folk song is really kind of beautiful to hear.
"Oh, death, I'll fix your feet till you can't walk, I'll lock your jaw till you can't talk, I'll close your eyes so you can't see. This very hour, come and go with me."
What do you make of it? I mean, do, is this, why send out clues like this?
DELONG: Well, it could be that he is deliberately taunting the police. It also could be that he believes that he's careful enough, he's not going to give himself away. I don't think he wants to be caught. I think that's a...
COOPER: Is that, is that like a what, I mean, is that what something you just see on, on, like, "Kojak," that they want to get caught?
DELONG: I think so. I was a psychiatric nurse for 10 years working with offenders, and then 20 years as an agent. I never knew of any that really wanted to get caught. Of course, they want to maintain their freedom.
COOPER: Does it work when the police go public like this? I mean, I, it seemed to work with the Ted Kaczynski case. Other cases, does it usually work, or does it cause sort of more, you know, hysteria?
DELONG: Well, I don't think people can be too careful. I think it's very wise of the police to let people know about what's going on, for a couple of reasons. One, of course, I think this is great police work on their part to release this and look for people that might be able to make a link. Crimes have been solved that way.
And the other side of what they're doing is being beneficial to the community, I don't know that anyone's hysterical about it, but people certainly should take this guy seriously, lock your doors, don't let anyone come in that you don't know very, very well.
This guy is known to a lot of people, and when he -- if he is ever arrested, people will say, I just never dreamt it could have been him. He's such a nice guy.
COOPER: Yes, we've certainly heard that, we hear that just about every day from people.
DELONG: Right.
COOPER: Candice Delong, it's a fascinating discussion. Thanks very much for being with us.
DELONG: You're welcome, Cooper.
COOPER: Amber Frey grilled on the stand. Mark Geragos goes after Scott Peterson's other woman. Will her testimony hold up under cross-examination?
John Kerry fires back at the president, saying stop the swift boat smear. The president says that ad should stop, but has the damage already been done?
And all for a laugh, or gag gone too far? An HBO show angers some Jewish Americans. The singalong that has some people shouting.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Scott Peterson's one-time mistress under cross- examination. Was her story shaken? 360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: 360 next. A controversial ad campaign, the fog of war and "Raw Politics."
Are the real issues being derailed by a swift boat, we'll hear from both sides, but first tonight's "Reset."
George Tenet, doesn't like the idea of dismantling the CIA. The spy agency's former boss says a reorganization plan suggested by Senator Pat Roberts, "reflects a dangerous misunderstanding of the business of intelligence," and he called it a step toward driving the security of the American people off a cliff.
New federal rules about who gets overtime and who loses out took effect today. It is the first change in more than 50 years. The Bush administration says the new rules will be clearer, cover more people and eliminate law suits.
Labor representatives and the Kerry campaign say the move amounts to a pay cut for six million Americans.
A drug smuggling legend has been arrested in Mexico. This man the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, put a $2 million reward on his head. His name is Gilberto Higuera Guerrero. He's said to control half the drugs smuggled into the U.S. from Mexico. He'll be prosecuted there before being extradited to face charges in the U.S.
Women who use an injected contraceptive may be more susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases. A new study today, says even after adjusting for differences in behavior, women using Depro-Provera were three times more likely to become infected in use contraceptive pills.
And Gloria Allred, the attorney for Amber Frey is just about to make a statement. Lets listen in.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR AMBER FREY: I would simply ask Mr. Geragos, where's the beef? Or is your only beef that Amber assisted law enforcement by tape recording telephone calls with Scott Peterson? I'm happy to answer any questions.
QUESTION: Certainly he seems to be trying to suggest she was obsessed with Scott. That she called him what, 16 times one day. I mean, does that go to her credibility at all, she's obsessed with him.
ALLRED: The question is if Geragos is attempting to show that Amber is obsessed with Scott, because there may have been 16 telephone calls on December 26th, does that show it?
Well, the problem for Mr. Geragos on that one is that he even held up the gift that his own client, Scott Peterson, sent to Amber for Christmas and she testified that she got it on December 26th and she was calling him to thank him for the gift. By the way, some of those calls or many of them or most of them may have been attempts to contact, not actual contacts with, and that was to thank him for the gift. He went nowhere with that, even though he tried.
QUESTION: Where do you think Mr. Geragos is trying to go with this line of questioning?
ALLRED: Yes, I can't tell where he's going. I can tell you, I just think, he's nowhere. He's gone nowhere. As I said, a Power Point presentation without any power and without any point. Maybe he's, you know, maybe he's fishing, but so far he hasn't caught anything.
QUESTION: How does Amber feel about how it all went today?
ALLRED: Amber's just there telling the truth. I think -- my own opinion is that she's a model witness. You know, she's telling the truth. She's giving her best recollection. And she's looking at the telephone records and if they support what Mr. Geragos is saying, then she's confirming it and if they don't, well, she'll go with the records that are accurate.
QUESTION: She seemed somewhat confused quite a bit at the end. Do you think her credibility has been damaged at all today?
ALLRED: Confused about what?
QUESTION: Some of the times, some of the questions he was asking, she said I don't know.
ALLRED: My perception was that Amber wasn't confused. She was, you know, trying to understand exactly what Mr. Geragos was asking. Sometimes Mr. Geragos asks a multi-part question with a lot of phrases in it. And he needs to break it down because of course, I'm sure he wouldn't want to mislead the witness. And Amber is careful to make sure that she understands the question before she answers it. And I commend her for that.
COOPER: And you've been listening to Gloria Allred, the attorney for Amber Frey. As always sound byte ready, Gloria Allred.
We're joined by Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, 360 legal analyst.
As well as Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney. Jeanne, good to see you as well.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Anderson.
COOPER: Kimberly let me start off with you. In questioning today, Mark Geragos, honing in on Amber Frey, how much she had to drink on her first meeting with Scott Peterson on their first day. What is he trying to get at?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Well, really it's just trying to dirt the witness. To suggest this is a woman drinks a lot. This is a women who partakes in one-night stands. This is a women that was obsessed with Scott Peterson. I really don't think it accomplished much. I think the most brilliant thing that Mark Geragos did today, was when he said no questions, your honor. And he should have stopped at that. What does he really got to ask, Amber Frey. I think anything he brings up really just emphasizes her testimony, emphasizes her credibility. And attacks on her personal character, her virtues really could backfire, especially with the way this jury is split with six woman.
COOPER: Jeanne, you just heard, Gloria Alfred, calling Mark Geragos' style, basically, a power point presentation without any power and without a point. Do you agree?
WEINTRAUB: No, I totally disagree with most of what she says. Number one, Amber Frey, is a scorned woman, and her bias and her anger shows through every tape. She offers to tape record Scott Peterson, to tell him that she's pregnant. She offers everything to the police.
COOPER: So, you think those tapes reflect badly on her?
WEINTRAUB: She is gang busters to get him.
COOPER: You think the tapes reflect badly on her?
WEINTRAUB: I do. And I'll tell you why, Anderson. I think that it shows her true colors. I think it shows her motive to testify the way she is. I think it shows she wanted to get him. And despite her best efforts, as Deputy Frey and 200 hours of tape, she not only doesn't get him to admit anything, he reinforces he didn't do anything. And you know better than that, Amber, he says to her. And more than that, he never even says he loves her. I disagree with Kimberly also about the drinking comments. I think what Mark was trying to get from Amber, and be able to argue later to the jury, she was drinking. It was only a couple of dates, this was nothing serious. This was not somebody he was going to spend his life with. This was not somebody he was going to kill for. This is somebody he was drinking and lusting for and nothing more and nothing less.
NEWSOM: Why does he keep up with it?
Jayne, why does he keep up with the phone calls, with the Christmas presents for her, when he should be concerned about looking for his wife?
Calling her, pretending he's in Paris when he should be focusing on the vigil for his wife, rubbing rose petals on her face and her body trying to seduce her.
WEINTRAUB: He is a married man. First of all, he didn't have to try too hard, we all know that. But I'm not looking to assassinate her character.
NEWSOM: Not at all. Deputy Frey, not at all.
WEINTRAUB: Not me. I'm looking to show her for what she is. And to me she's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) gold digger. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some rich guy...
NEWSOM: Why can't she just be a woman who understands? She's a woman with a small child. She feels bad Laci is missing, she's pregnant. Sure she's been duped by this guy, of course, she's upset. She genuinely cared about him. I think that's conveyed on the tapes.
WEINTRAUB: Kimberly, look at what she did the last time she was with a married man. Not only did she tape record him too, a little thoughtful is she, but after he had a baby, the married man the last time, she snuck into the hospital and went and looked at the baby, because she wanted to see that baby before she call the wife. This is a woman who's...
(CROSSTALK)
NEWSOM: ...but that's not what came in at court. I mean, I think she came off very credible on the stand.
WEINTRAUB: Kimberly, she's an obsessive woman who scorned, wants to gets back at him, wants to ensnare him and she doesn't do it. The relationship was nothing more than a few dates, that was it.
COOPER: Kimberly, very briefly, how long do you think Amber Frey's going to be on the stand.
WEINTRAUB: I think he's going to finish up with her tomorrow. Mark's smart, he knows that he needs to get her in and off the stand, because think it's not going so well.
COOPER: Kimberly Guilfoyle, thanks. And Jane Weintraub, good to see you again.
WEINTRAUB: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Thanks for being with us.
Here's a fast fact for you, a look at how defense attorney Mark Geragos has made out in other high profile cases. He won acquittal on all charges for Susan McDougal, who was the center of the Clinton Whitewater investigation. He lost the case for Winona Ryder, who was convicted of shoplifting. Geragos, was also Michael Jackson's lawyer for a short time. He was recently replaced.
360 next, getting to the truth behind the Swift Boat ads, the controversy over Kerry's record in Vietnam, fact or fiction, try to sort it all out and talk to two representatives from both campaigns.
Also tonight. You may not believe what some people find funny. How one comedy show may tell us a lot about hate. 360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Although a number of the allegations made by the so- called Swift Boat Veterans For Truth have been discredited or found to be based on hearsay, the group continues to run commercials in several key battleground states and the political war of words continues to heat up. Consider this: the ad that started this controversy ran in only three states that cost the group a relatively modest $500,000. How did it come to this? CNN's Adaora Udoji takes a look at the anatomy of a political firestorm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The controversy began immediately after the ad aired August 5 in three battleground states accusing John Kerry of lying about his decorated Vietnam war record.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry is no war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed all his ship mates, he lied before the Senate.
UDOJI: That day Republican senator and Vietnam veteran John McCain called it, quote, "dishonest and dishonorable" while urging the White House to condemn it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Bush's reelection campaign has denied that it has any ties to the group.
UDOJI: Each day since, the story has picked up steam nationally while the ad played only in Ohio, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep pockets campaign to discredit John Kerry's service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calls for President Bush to denounce these television ads criticizing Kerry's war service.
UDOJI: More has become known about the creators the past two weeks. They're former Navy men calling themselves Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, a group heavily backed by President Bush supporters. Their accusations are contradicted by a former crewman of Kerry's and records. Friday, Kerry's campaign filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission accusing the Bush reelection campaign of illegally coordinating with the anti-Kerry group. Then today, released their own advertisement.
AD ANNOUNCER: George Bush denounced the smear. Get back to the issues. America deserves better.
UDOJI: The Bush team denies any wrongdoing. From Crawford, Texas today President Bush commended Kerry's war record then condemned political advertising from third parties but did not condemn the content of the ad attacking Kerry. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the two sides in the Swift Boat controversy not done talking. Terry Holt, national spokesman for the Bush/Cheney '04 presidential campaign joins us now, along with Michael Meehan, the senior adviser to the Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign.
Gentlemen, I appreciate you being on. Terry, let me start off with you. This first ad aired August 5. That day John McCain came out, called it dishonest. Why did it take President Bush so long to just today to say that ad, he didn't like it?
TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY NATL. SPOKESMAN: You know, in fact, I've been on your show before talking about 527s, and the profound impact they're having on the campaign. This was only interesting to John Kerry when it began to happen to him. There have been $63 million spent as your report pointed out. This is only a small fraction of the broader situation we have here.
COOPER: But beyond talking about the broad situation, this ad in particular, if the president didn't like it, couldn't he have picked up the phone and called Bob Perry or any of the people who funded it?
HOLT: But fundamentally, Cooper, this is a political tactic by the Kerry campaign. They got attacked by this group. Two weeks go by. And then they feel like it's hurting them. So their tactic is to attack the president. When we've been talking about these 527s and the effect they can have on the campaign, on the decision people are about to make in the race, this is old news to us. We've seen it before. It's John Kerry's political problem that's making this a story.
COOPER: Michael, what about these 527s? Today the president said we should get rid of all of their ads. Does Kerry believe the same thing? I haven't heard him say that.
MICHAEL MEEHAN, KERRY-EDWARDS SR. ADVISER: John Kerry believes that we should have much tighter campaign finance. But that's not what is at the core here. The president today missed a chance again for the 14th day in a row to say that these ads are dishonest and despicable, the words of John McCain. What he chose to do instead was not do that. What he's allowed to go on is smears by these veterans on John Kerry's naval record and on the men who served on those missions with him. Just yesterday we learned Bill Rood, a "Chicago Tribune" editor came with a first person account of what happened on the day that Kerry won his Silver Star and said what these guys are doing hurts us all. And this president as a commander- in-chief has a special obligation to say enough attacking the Navy record of John Kerry and the other men and let's put this to an end and he chose not to.
COOPER: So far I'm two for two and neither of you guys answered my question. Michael, let me try to follow up on you and I want to go back to Terry. About the 527s though, I mean, there are some who say this is a little bit like that French detective in "Casablanca" saying I'm shocked to find there's gambling in Rick's casino. John Kerry has benefited enormously from some of these 527 groups. Would he be willing to say let's do away with them or at least let's not have any of their ads?
MEEHAN: Sure, if we could get the laws changed and that's going to happen when John Kerry is president. You're going to get campaign finance laws that takes these groups, that minimizes their impact. George Bush signed this into law. If he wanted a tougher law, he could have gotten it. But what happens here is when these groups go over the line. John Kerry cried foul last week when a group came out and said that George Bush's military record was insufficient and when someone compared George Bush to Adolf Hitler this spring, John Kerry said that's over the line and condemned that. This president hasn't condemned these smears and these lies on Kerry's military record and he should, he's the commander-in-chief.
COOPER: Terry, I'm going to ask you that particular -- I'm going to try it with you once again. Bob Perry who is a, I guess, an old friend of Karl Rove's, gave a lot of money to this group early on to help them get it started. Why doesn't Karl Rove, if they're so opposed to these ads, call up his old friend and say, stop funding these guys?
HOLT: Come on now. This is such a fascinating story. Because it is, as your program pointed out, sort of an anatomy of a media crisis for John Kerry. It does hurt them, but it's something, it's a debate they're having with an organization out there that disputes their view of it, and for our campaign, you know, his ad says today, you know, go back to the issues. We're about today. We put a spot together. It's about taxes and the economy and the middle class and how the middle class needs a break from John Kerry's kind of policies. We're not talking about that at all in this thing and fundamentally, this is about an unintended consequence of a group that they have out there because of the world that they created with their own 527s.
COOPER: Michael, very briefly, you've been saying all along this group is a front for the Bush administration. In fact, I think you've said that they're actually working together. Do you have any evidence of that?
MEEHAN: Sure, a Bush campaign official who's on the veterans committee starred in the ad. There were three guys in their new ad...
COOPER: You're talking about Ken Cordier. I just want Terry to respond to that. Is that fair?
(CROSSTALK)
MEEHAN: He was on the Bush campaign as of Saturday and he had to resign because he starred in this 527 ad. Also, the Bush campaign does in Gainesville, Florida, on Saturday did rally together with Swift Boat Veterans and the Bush campaign...
COOPER: OK, I give to it to Terry to respond to that.
HOLT: Come on. These are volunteer staffers out in America, not the kinds of people like Jim Jordan who ran Kerry's campaign, who runs the biggest 527 in town or any of the other senior people, Bill Richardson who was the chairman of your convention...
COOPER: Terry, you're saying point blank, no linkage.
HOLT: ... who was on the board of one of these.
COOPER: You're saying point blank, no linkage. HOLT: These people have taken advantage of this big, huge hole in the law for a long time. And I'm just saying that this is their baby come home to roost.
COOPER: We've got to end it there. Terry Holt, Michael Meehan, appreciate you two guys being on the program. Thank you.
MEEHAN: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Which political party do you think is more media-savvy? That's the buzz question tonight, Republican or Democrat? Log on to cnn.com/360, cast your vote. Results at the end of the program tonight.
And a British comic skit leaves viewers laughing, shocked and some livid. Next on 360, how Ali G's performance and audience response is leading to charges of anti-Semitism.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: HBO's brilliant "Da Ali G Show" is subversive and funny often, but tonight it's coming under fire from Jewish groups in both the U.S. and U.K. They're incensed about a skit in which the host led an Arizona bar crowd in a line dance that was anti-Semitic. Some call it questionable. The question is, where does the bigotry really lie?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASHA BARON COHEN, ACTOR: Hello.
COOPER (voice-over): If you've never seen "Da Ali G Show," well, it's a little difficult to describe. British comedian Sasha Baron Cohen as Ali G and his other alter egos gets unwilling guests to make startling revelations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barely legal.
COHEN: Barely legal free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free. OK. Good.
COOPER: Or take part in seemingly silly stunts.
COHEN: It's a fake gun. He's got a fake gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, that's fine.
COOPER: In the show, we get to laugh at tongue-tied media mavens.
COHEN: Has you ever interviewed Shakespeares?
COOPER: Or out-of-touch politicos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's just a -- I think that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). COOPER: Or full of themselves fashionistas.
COHEN: So, Burt Reynolds, keep him in the ghetto or a train to Auschwitz?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Auschwitz.
COOPER: But it's Cohen character, Borat, a reporter from Kazakhstan making a documentary about the U.S. that's causing the stir.
In a recent episode, Borat sings a song with anti-Semitic lyrics.
And surprisingly, the jubilant crowd joins in. In a letter to Cohen, the Anti-Defamation League said they received hundreds of complaints, and said, quote, "we're concerned that the irony may have been lost on some your audience or worse, that some of your viewers may have simply accepted Borat's statements about Jews at face value."
So that begs the question, who deserves to be the subject of scorn? The people who happily sang along with a clearly racist song, or the man who reminded us that when it comes to racial and religious harmony, we still have a long way to go? Attacking the messenger may make for good copy, but exposing painful truths wrapped in a layer of laughter could be why comedy is hard inside the box.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, contacted by CNN, HBO and executives of "Da Ali G Show" declined to comment.
360 next, well, today's "Buzz." Which political party do you think is more media savvy, Republicans or Democrats? Getting a lot of response on this. Log onto cnn.com/360, cast your vote, results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Which political party do you think is more savvy? Here's what you said -- 63 Republicans, 37 percent Democrat. Not a scientific poll, but it is your buzz.
Tonight, taking the knock of opportunity to "The Nth Degree."
Boy, oh, boy, this is really exciting. We can get you in on the ground floor of a deal that has never, ever been available before. See, the group that assigns names to living things, the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, is running out of money. They may even go out of business. You know, these are the folks who have taken over the work began in 1758 by the Swedish scientist Carol Linnaeus, the father of taxonomy, which is the orderly scientific naming of living things.
The commission is not asking for contributions from the public, you understand, but it seems to us that folks who do chip in might have the right to do a little naming of their own. Consider the chances you might have had in the past. Today, people might be calling this a Betty C. Cromwell. And this handsome creature a Joey Scarlatto. On safari, folks might point and say, look, a herd of Moskowitzes. Don't like your mother-in-law? Don't get mad. Give her name to a slug.
Remember, there still are millions of undiscovered and unnamed critters out there. Cough up a five-spot, and one of them could be your very own Tom, Dick or Harry.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 23, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York, I'm Anderson Cooper.
Scott Peterson's mistress on the stand and under fire.
360 starts now.
Amber Frey grilled on the stand. Mark Geragos goes after Scott Peterson's other woman. Will her testimony hold up under cross- examination?
John Kerry fires back at the president, saying, stop the swift boat smear. President says the ad should stop, but has the damage already been done?
Two Christian camp counselors killed while sleeping on a California beach. Was their murder linked to their religious beliefs?
A 10-year-old boy trained to fight the U.S. A shocking look at the baby face of Muqtada al-Sadr's militia.
A serial killer responsible for eight deaths now linked to a university professor and a poem. Are the police getting closer to finding the infamous BTK killer?
And all for a laugh, or gag gone too far? An HBO show angers some Jewish Americans. The singalong that has some people shouting.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And a good evening again.
There are lawyers who keep a low profile, there are lawyers who stay in the shadows, and then there's Mark Geragos. For days now, he's had to sit listening to his client's lies tape recorded and played to a packed courtroom by none other than Amber Frey, Peterson's mistress turned star witness.
Today, finally, Geragos got his first chance to strike back, cross-examining Frey. For court watchers expecting a show, Geragos didn't disappoint.
CNN's Ted Rowlands was in the courtroom. He joins us live from Redwood City, California. Good evening, Ted. TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Anderson.
And that show will spill into tomorrow. Court has adjourned for the day. You talk about those lies. Geragos used Amber Frey to establish that Scott Peterson started lying about his planned trips immediately after meeting her at a restaurant the first night. Within three hours of first meeting Amber Frey, he told her he was an international salesman that was planning to go to Europe, to Paris and Brussels. His parents lived in Maine.
Geragos tried to establish that Peterson was tied to those lies from the very beginning, and that is why he sounded so strange on those recordings after his wife was missing.
Frey admitted on the stand that it was her idea initially to tell Peterson that she was pregnant. That first day she met with detectives, she said that she had unprotected sex with Peterson, and she said it would be a good idea if she told him she was pregnant.
At one point Geragos said, quote, "You thought you could convince him that you were pregnant." She said that it was a possibility.
Frey has been strong on the stand, answering all of Mark Geragos's questions very coolly and calmly. Geragos has not attacked her like he has Modesto police detectives. He has prodded her and he has been relentless when she's refused to go along with his train of thought. However, she's standing tough. She will be, however, back on the stand tomorrow, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Ted Rowlands, live from Redwood. Thanks very much, Ted. We're going to have more on this case a little bit later on with 360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom and criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.
If you thought the start of a new work week would bring a new news cycle that's moved beyond a presidential campaign still splitting hairs over service in a war fought 30 years ago, you'd be wrong. Like it or not, think it's relevant or not, swift boats again dominated the presidential race today.
In Texas, President Bush went a bit farther in his criticism of the swift boat spots, but not far enough to suit the Kerry campaign.
With the president, here's CNN's Jill Dougherty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush, at his ranch with top officials, discussed national security. But fielding questions from reporters, the subject turned once again to those TV attack ads, specifically one funded by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That means that ad, every other ad. Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it, and I wish, I hope my opponent joins me in saying condemning these activities of the 527s. It's the, I think they're bad for the system.
DOUGHERTY: The Kerry campaign has challenged the president to condemn the swift boat ads. He didn't do it by name, but this was the first time Mr. Bush used the words "that ad."
The White House downplayed the remark, claiming no change in the president's opposition to all soft money attack ads.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: So the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had the issued a written response to the comments by President Bush today, a statement by the founder, Roy Hoffman, saying, "It would make no difference if John Kerry were a Republican, Democrat, or an independent. Swift boat veterans would still be speaking the truth concerning John Kerry's military service record in Vietnam, his actions after returning home, and his lack of qualifications to be the next commander in chief."
And the statement went on to say that they are an independent organization, and that John Kerry made this an issue in the campaign. They will continue to take their message to the American people, Anderson.
COOPER: More ads, that means. Jill Dougherty, thanks very much.
We're going to talk with Terry Holt from the Bush campaign as well as Michael Meehan, an adviser to Senator John Kerry, a little bit later on in the program about this ad and these series of ads in particular.
A new CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll today released just minutes ago shows the presidential race is a dead heat in Florida. Registered voters are split evenly, 45 to 45 percent, between Bush and Kerry, with 3 percent opting for Ralph Nader. In the same poll, likely voters favored Bush 48-46 percent, with 2 percent favoring Nader. But those differences are really well within the 4-point margin of error, a statistical dead heat there.
Nearly three years after their capture, four suspected terrorists are about to have their first day in court. Trials are still months away, but preliminary hearings begin tomorrow at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Now, one of the prisoners is an Australian national who's accused of fighting with the Taliban against U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
CNN's Susan Candiotti has his story from Guantanamo Bay.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's a bull- riding cowboy from southern Australia, and now David Hicks finds himself thrown into a legal arena with worldwide spectators.
His attorney says this photo of Hicks posing with a rocket- propelled grenade launcher was just him goofing off. MAJOR MICHAEL MORI, HICKS'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He's about five- foot-three, and he just strikes me as a good Aussie.
CANDIOTTI: He grew up in Australia, a freckle-faced boy. This family photo shows one of his two children, reportedly born by the time Hicks was 20.
ANDREW WHITE, FORMER NEIGHBOR: He was a good boy, never done anything wrong while he was here in Australia. So it's hard to believe what he's done.
CANDIOTTI: According to the Pentagon, Hicks joined the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999, converted to Islam back in Australia, and fought in Pakistan. In 2001, Hicks allegedly joined an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, met Osama bin laden, and translated training materials from Arabic into English.
After the September 11 attacks, Hicks is accused of fighting coalition forces and allegedly was part of a group that included American Taliban John Walker Lindh.
MORI: I can tell you, you know, David Hicks has not injured any U.S. service member, he hasn't injured any U.S. citizen. And his own country has looked at what he's done and said that he has not violated any law of Australia.
CANDIOTTI: The Pentagon has charged Hicks with the attempted murder of coalition forces and helping al-Qaeda. When Hicks appears in court Wednesday, his nervous father and stepmother will be there.
TERRY HICKS, FATHER OF THE ACCUSED: We haven't seen David for five years. We don't know what his condition's like, what his mental state's like. So it's -- I think it's going to be a pretty emotional meeting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: If found guilty, Hicks faces life in prison. Under an agreement with the Australian government, any sentence would be served there, Anderson.
COOPER: Susan, so this guy joined the KLA in Kosovo, he fought in Pakistan, allegedly, he's photographed with a grenade launcher, which, I guess, his friends say was just kind of a joke. What is his defense?
CANDIOTTI: Well, we won't know that, of course, until the trial begins. However, according to his attorney, this was someone who was an adventurer, and he certainly seems to have found a lot of that.
Back to you.
COOPER: Certainly has. Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.
An admission from the highest-ranking soldier accused in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal. That story tops our look at news cross- country tonight.
Hagerstown, Maryland, Army Sergeant Chip Fredericks, seen there, says he violated the law and will plead guilty to some of the charges against him. Now, he's accused of mistreating prisoners, conspiracy, dereliction of duty, and committing indecent acts. Frederick goes before a military judge tomorrow. It's not clear which of those he's going to plead guilty to.
New York, now, a sad statistic, 14 of the dogs used to dig for the rubble at ground zero have died since 9/11. Now, eight of them from cancer. What is not known is if there is a actual link to chemicals the animals were exposed to.
Chicago, batter up, Wrigley Field is declared safe, so the clubs -- the Cubs will take on the Milwaukee tonight. After all, rumors of shoddy repair work threatened to close Wrigley down after small chunks of concrete fell from the upper decks.
Those are some of the stories in the cross-country (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
360 next, Christian camp counselors murdered execution-style. The couple shot in the head as they slept on a California beach. Days later, police think the case just might be linked to another killing in Arizona, and questions about whether or not it was a hate crime.
Plus, meet a child soldier whose father actually trained him to shoot. He is just 10 years old, but in an army fighting and trying to kill Americans.
And cold case file, the BTK serial killer. Police find a clue, a professor, and a poem. But what do the pieces add up to? All that ahead.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the camp is closed, the campers gone, and the Christian counselors are being remembered for how they lived, not how they died. But for police in California, how they died is priority one right now.
The counselors were murdered, shot at close range while they slept on a remote California beach. They had never seen anything like it, the police said, until they found out what happened nearly 1,000 miles away.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-year- old Brandon Rumbaugh (ph) and 19-year-old Lisa Gurary (ph) were found shot to death in their sleeping bags while they were camping 60 miles north of Scottsdale, Arizona. That was back in October.
Last week in northern California, the bodies of 23-year-old Lindsey Cutshaw (ph) and 26-year-old Jason Allen were found in their sleeping bags, also shot in the head.
LT. DAVE EDMONDS, SONOMA COUNTY SHERIFF DEPARTMENT: We haven't been able to establish a motive for this crime. It's very disconcerting and disturbing.
GUTIERREZ: Investigators have exchanged information in each case, and while there are some similarities -- both couples were young, and they were camping in remote areas -- investigators say there are significant differences, well, though they would not go into detail. They did, however, point out Cutshaw and Allen did not appear to have enemies.
EDMONDS: They were Christian missionaries of sorts, and they made it their habit to help out with Christian endeavors. One of the endeavors they were presently on was helping out at a Christian camp.
GUTIERREZ: Investigators did not rule out the possibility of a hate crime or any other motive, and say it may be an isolated incident.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The investigation is still well underway.
Legal gymnastics over Olympic gold medal winner Paul Hamm tops our look at what's going on around the world in the uplink.
In Athens, Greece, the U.S. Olympic Committee is willing to support the awarding of a second gold in the men's all-around gymnastics competition. A scoring error denied the gold to Hamm's South Korean competitor, who was awarded the bronze. But some in Athens say, Not so fast, that existing rules really don't allow for a second gold medal. We'll see.
Paris, France, now, an Islamic militant group that almost no one's ever heard of claims responsibility for a fire at a Jewish soup kitchen. A statement was posted on a Web site. French officials don't know yet if it's authentic.
Havana Cuba, now, keep your aid money. Cuba rejects the Bush administration's offer of $50,000 to help clean up the damage caused by Hurricane Charley. They call it hypocritical in the face of a four-decade economic blockade.
Oslo, Norway, now, Edvard Munch's world-famous painting "The Scream" was not insured. Hard to believe. Enough to make art lovers scream. The priceless painting and his "Madonna" were snatched from the Munch Museum by armed robbers.
It was actually caught in action by this surveillance camera, right there, there's one of the, there's two of the guys. Security is, was minimal, which is odd, since a different version of the masterpiece was stolen from a different Oslo museum 10 years ago. That one was recovered. That was the getaway car.
That's a quick look at tonight's uplink.
In Iraq, U.S. warplanes today again pounded the positions of militiamen in Najaf loyal to Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
After the bombings, gunfire erupted around the mosque in the center of the city. Militia members inside the shrine say they are awaiting the arrival of a delegation of religious authorities who are expected to assume custody of the site.
Whether that actually happens remains to be seen. They've said it before. Al-Sadr's militiamen also control vast slums in Baghdad, particularly Sadr City, where some of the fighters are actually children.
CNN's John Vause met some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a grenade in one hand and a brand-new AK-47 in the other, Karrar Nouri is a volunteer in Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army. He's just 10 years old.
KARRAR NOURI, CHILD SOLDIER (through translator): I am a guard with the Mehdi Army against the Americans.
VAUSE: He's spending school vacation manning a checkpoint in Sadr City, a sprawling slum in Baghdad and stronghold for the rebellious cleric. The boy's father says Karrar has taken part in the fighting against U.S. and Iraqi forces.
FALAH NOURI, FATHER (through translator): I taught him how to shoot. He can now shoot by himself.
VAUSE: He's not the only boy with a gun in Sadr City. There are many others, most in their teens, but a few are younger than Karrar. The U.S. military says they have been fired on by boys. They return with warning shots to try and scare them off.
CAPT. JOHN MEREDITH, U.S. ARMY: Just the fact that they would resort to those kind of tactics kind of tells you who we're fighting.
VAUSE: The Iraqi government says just two children have been killed, 20 wounded, in Sadr City during the recent outbreak of violence. No one knows how many were actually fighting, and how many were caught in the crossfire.
But local doctors say the number is much higher. On the day we spoke with Dr. Adel Mezher, he says eight bodies were brought to his hospital, six of them children.
DR. ADEL MEZHER, SADR CITY HOSPITAL (through translator): They were all civilians. Most died inside their homes, killed by mortars and rockets. We don't know who fired at them.
VAUSE: Here, the so-called Mehdi Army holds almost mythical status.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Mehdi Army is composed of the orphans of those who were murdered in the prisons of Saddam Hussein. They now chant, "We are the Mehdi Army. This is the pride for us."
VAUSE (on camera): Much of Muqtada al-Sadr's support is the legacy of his late father, the Grand Ayatollah Mohammed al-Sadr. Admired and respected for his opposition to Saddam Hussein, he was shot dead five years ago. But it seems that family reputation for defiance is now inspiring a young new generation of the Mehdi Army. Only this time, it's defiance of the U.S. and the Iraqi interim government.
John Vause, CNN, Sadr City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ten-year-olds with guns, hard to believe.
Here's a fast fact for you, though. More than half a million kids under the age of 18 have been recruited as soldiers in more than 85 countries around the world, that according to Amnesty International. It estimates that 300,000 of those kids are actively fighting in armed conflicts around the world at any given time.
360 next, serial killer BTK has been on the loose for decades. Now an old folk song may actually help police crack the case. Some interesting clues ahead.
Also tonight, the Democrats say it's a smear campaign. The president says he's not behind it. The swift boat ads take on a life of their own, and both campaigns speak out coming up.
And a little later, comedy, a singalong, and charges of anti- Semitism. Ali G walks a fine line that has him in some hot water.
360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SINGER (singer): Oh, death, oh, death, won't you spare me over till another year?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: That's an old folk song which plays an important role in this next story.
It has been 25 years since anybody heard from a mysterious serial killer known as BTK. That stands for bind, torture, and kill. Police in Kansas believe the BTK killed eight people three decades ago, and they say he's back again, resuming his trademark practice of mailing bits and pieces of evidence about crimes committed in the past.
Investigators in Wichita are again seeking the public's help trying to actually connect the dots between the murderer, a university professor, and that old folk song.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The killer's communication began in 1977.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will find a homicide...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: It was a call to Wichita, Kansas, police from a man with a location of Nancy Fox, a woman who had been strangled. In the months that followed, a series of letters arrived at Wichita media outlets with photos and details about other murders.
The killer called himself BTK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BTK stands for bind, torture, and kill.
OPPENHEIM: Two years later, police said BTK had claimed responsibility for seven deaths dating back to 1974.
Then communications stopped until March of this year, when "The Wichita Eagle" got a letter with details of a possible eighth victim, a woman killed in 1986. Police said BTK was back.
HURST LAVIANA, "WICHITA EAGLE" POLICE REPORTER: The big question, no one knows where has he been for 25 years.
OPPENHEIM: Since then, investigators say three more letters were sent by BTK. One included a chapter heading that read "PJs." Police suspected that was a reference to Dr. P.J. Wyatt, a Wichita State English teacher who taught a course on folklore in the 1970s.
In 1978, BTK sent a poem called "Oh, Death to Nancy," which police believe was based on an old folk song called, "Oh, Death," a song that was a regular part of one of Dr. Wyatt's courses.
LT. KEN LANDWEHR, WICHITA, KANSAS, POLICE: We are looking for the public's help on identifying anyone who has used this obscure folk song and can contact with Dr. PJ Wyatt.
OPPENHEIM: Dr. Wyatt died in 1991, but police hope that someone who knew her or knows more about an old song, could lead them to a serial murderer.
Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: As we said, police are appealing for your help. They often turn to profilers to help them catch killers like these. Tonight, we turn to Candice Delong, a former FBI profiler. She is in San Francisco.
Candice, thanks very much for being with us.
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: You're welcome.
COOPER: What do you make of this?
DELONG: Well, I think the most significant thing is that he reemerged this past March after such a long period of not hearing from him.
COOPER: Twenty-five years.
DELONG: Right. And apparently claiming credit for a murder 20 years old. Which makes me wonder, where, of course, where he has been for 20 years? Why didn't he claim that murder 20 years ago? Was he somewhere where it was not safe to communicate with the paper (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: I.e., prison, something like that, you're saying.
DELONG: Right.
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I mean, do killers just -- if someone who has communicated like this, do they just give up communicating for a time? I mean, is it possible he wasn't anywhere, that he just decided to go underground for a while?
DELONG: It's possible. Fortunately, there are not thousands and thousands of serial killer cases that we can look at to get statistics from. This is without question unusual. It has happened that serial killers have taken a hiatus. Course, of course, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we need to remember, he hasn't resumed killing that we know of. But Ted Kaczynski went underground for six years.
COOPER: And the police have released this old poem related to this folk song. And I'm going to put up some of the lyrics on the screen. They're pretty disturbing stuff, though the actual folk song is really kind of beautiful to hear.
"Oh, death, I'll fix your feet till you can't walk, I'll lock your jaw till you can't talk, I'll close your eyes so you can't see. This very hour, come and go with me."
What do you make of it? I mean, do, is this, why send out clues like this?
DELONG: Well, it could be that he is deliberately taunting the police. It also could be that he believes that he's careful enough, he's not going to give himself away. I don't think he wants to be caught. I think that's a...
COOPER: Is that, is that like a what, I mean, is that what something you just see on, on, like, "Kojak," that they want to get caught?
DELONG: I think so. I was a psychiatric nurse for 10 years working with offenders, and then 20 years as an agent. I never knew of any that really wanted to get caught. Of course, they want to maintain their freedom.
COOPER: Does it work when the police go public like this? I mean, I, it seemed to work with the Ted Kaczynski case. Other cases, does it usually work, or does it cause sort of more, you know, hysteria?
DELONG: Well, I don't think people can be too careful. I think it's very wise of the police to let people know about what's going on, for a couple of reasons. One, of course, I think this is great police work on their part to release this and look for people that might be able to make a link. Crimes have been solved that way.
And the other side of what they're doing is being beneficial to the community, I don't know that anyone's hysterical about it, but people certainly should take this guy seriously, lock your doors, don't let anyone come in that you don't know very, very well.
This guy is known to a lot of people, and when he -- if he is ever arrested, people will say, I just never dreamt it could have been him. He's such a nice guy.
COOPER: Yes, we've certainly heard that, we hear that just about every day from people.
DELONG: Right.
COOPER: Candice Delong, it's a fascinating discussion. Thanks very much for being with us.
DELONG: You're welcome, Cooper.
COOPER: Amber Frey grilled on the stand. Mark Geragos goes after Scott Peterson's other woman. Will her testimony hold up under cross-examination?
John Kerry fires back at the president, saying stop the swift boat smear. The president says that ad should stop, but has the damage already been done?
And all for a laugh, or gag gone too far? An HBO show angers some Jewish Americans. The singalong that has some people shouting.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Scott Peterson's one-time mistress under cross- examination. Was her story shaken? 360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: 360 next. A controversial ad campaign, the fog of war and "Raw Politics."
Are the real issues being derailed by a swift boat, we'll hear from both sides, but first tonight's "Reset."
George Tenet, doesn't like the idea of dismantling the CIA. The spy agency's former boss says a reorganization plan suggested by Senator Pat Roberts, "reflects a dangerous misunderstanding of the business of intelligence," and he called it a step toward driving the security of the American people off a cliff.
New federal rules about who gets overtime and who loses out took effect today. It is the first change in more than 50 years. The Bush administration says the new rules will be clearer, cover more people and eliminate law suits.
Labor representatives and the Kerry campaign say the move amounts to a pay cut for six million Americans.
A drug smuggling legend has been arrested in Mexico. This man the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, put a $2 million reward on his head. His name is Gilberto Higuera Guerrero. He's said to control half the drugs smuggled into the U.S. from Mexico. He'll be prosecuted there before being extradited to face charges in the U.S.
Women who use an injected contraceptive may be more susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases. A new study today, says even after adjusting for differences in behavior, women using Depro-Provera were three times more likely to become infected in use contraceptive pills.
And Gloria Allred, the attorney for Amber Frey is just about to make a statement. Lets listen in.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR AMBER FREY: I would simply ask Mr. Geragos, where's the beef? Or is your only beef that Amber assisted law enforcement by tape recording telephone calls with Scott Peterson? I'm happy to answer any questions.
QUESTION: Certainly he seems to be trying to suggest she was obsessed with Scott. That she called him what, 16 times one day. I mean, does that go to her credibility at all, she's obsessed with him.
ALLRED: The question is if Geragos is attempting to show that Amber is obsessed with Scott, because there may have been 16 telephone calls on December 26th, does that show it?
Well, the problem for Mr. Geragos on that one is that he even held up the gift that his own client, Scott Peterson, sent to Amber for Christmas and she testified that she got it on December 26th and she was calling him to thank him for the gift. By the way, some of those calls or many of them or most of them may have been attempts to contact, not actual contacts with, and that was to thank him for the gift. He went nowhere with that, even though he tried.
QUESTION: Where do you think Mr. Geragos is trying to go with this line of questioning?
ALLRED: Yes, I can't tell where he's going. I can tell you, I just think, he's nowhere. He's gone nowhere. As I said, a Power Point presentation without any power and without any point. Maybe he's, you know, maybe he's fishing, but so far he hasn't caught anything.
QUESTION: How does Amber feel about how it all went today?
ALLRED: Amber's just there telling the truth. I think -- my own opinion is that she's a model witness. You know, she's telling the truth. She's giving her best recollection. And she's looking at the telephone records and if they support what Mr. Geragos is saying, then she's confirming it and if they don't, well, she'll go with the records that are accurate.
QUESTION: She seemed somewhat confused quite a bit at the end. Do you think her credibility has been damaged at all today?
ALLRED: Confused about what?
QUESTION: Some of the times, some of the questions he was asking, she said I don't know.
ALLRED: My perception was that Amber wasn't confused. She was, you know, trying to understand exactly what Mr. Geragos was asking. Sometimes Mr. Geragos asks a multi-part question with a lot of phrases in it. And he needs to break it down because of course, I'm sure he wouldn't want to mislead the witness. And Amber is careful to make sure that she understands the question before she answers it. And I commend her for that.
COOPER: And you've been listening to Gloria Allred, the attorney for Amber Frey. As always sound byte ready, Gloria Allred.
We're joined by Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, 360 legal analyst.
As well as Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney. Jeanne, good to see you as well.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Anderson.
COOPER: Kimberly let me start off with you. In questioning today, Mark Geragos, honing in on Amber Frey, how much she had to drink on her first meeting with Scott Peterson on their first day. What is he trying to get at?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Well, really it's just trying to dirt the witness. To suggest this is a woman drinks a lot. This is a women who partakes in one-night stands. This is a women that was obsessed with Scott Peterson. I really don't think it accomplished much. I think the most brilliant thing that Mark Geragos did today, was when he said no questions, your honor. And he should have stopped at that. What does he really got to ask, Amber Frey. I think anything he brings up really just emphasizes her testimony, emphasizes her credibility. And attacks on her personal character, her virtues really could backfire, especially with the way this jury is split with six woman.
COOPER: Jeanne, you just heard, Gloria Alfred, calling Mark Geragos' style, basically, a power point presentation without any power and without a point. Do you agree?
WEINTRAUB: No, I totally disagree with most of what she says. Number one, Amber Frey, is a scorned woman, and her bias and her anger shows through every tape. She offers to tape record Scott Peterson, to tell him that she's pregnant. She offers everything to the police.
COOPER: So, you think those tapes reflect badly on her?
WEINTRAUB: She is gang busters to get him.
COOPER: You think the tapes reflect badly on her?
WEINTRAUB: I do. And I'll tell you why, Anderson. I think that it shows her true colors. I think it shows her motive to testify the way she is. I think it shows she wanted to get him. And despite her best efforts, as Deputy Frey and 200 hours of tape, she not only doesn't get him to admit anything, he reinforces he didn't do anything. And you know better than that, Amber, he says to her. And more than that, he never even says he loves her. I disagree with Kimberly also about the drinking comments. I think what Mark was trying to get from Amber, and be able to argue later to the jury, she was drinking. It was only a couple of dates, this was nothing serious. This was not somebody he was going to spend his life with. This was not somebody he was going to kill for. This is somebody he was drinking and lusting for and nothing more and nothing less.
NEWSOM: Why does he keep up with it?
Jayne, why does he keep up with the phone calls, with the Christmas presents for her, when he should be concerned about looking for his wife?
Calling her, pretending he's in Paris when he should be focusing on the vigil for his wife, rubbing rose petals on her face and her body trying to seduce her.
WEINTRAUB: He is a married man. First of all, he didn't have to try too hard, we all know that. But I'm not looking to assassinate her character.
NEWSOM: Not at all. Deputy Frey, not at all.
WEINTRAUB: Not me. I'm looking to show her for what she is. And to me she's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) gold digger. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some rich guy...
NEWSOM: Why can't she just be a woman who understands? She's a woman with a small child. She feels bad Laci is missing, she's pregnant. Sure she's been duped by this guy, of course, she's upset. She genuinely cared about him. I think that's conveyed on the tapes.
WEINTRAUB: Kimberly, look at what she did the last time she was with a married man. Not only did she tape record him too, a little thoughtful is she, but after he had a baby, the married man the last time, she snuck into the hospital and went and looked at the baby, because she wanted to see that baby before she call the wife. This is a woman who's...
(CROSSTALK)
NEWSOM: ...but that's not what came in at court. I mean, I think she came off very credible on the stand.
WEINTRAUB: Kimberly, she's an obsessive woman who scorned, wants to gets back at him, wants to ensnare him and she doesn't do it. The relationship was nothing more than a few dates, that was it.
COOPER: Kimberly, very briefly, how long do you think Amber Frey's going to be on the stand.
WEINTRAUB: I think he's going to finish up with her tomorrow. Mark's smart, he knows that he needs to get her in and off the stand, because think it's not going so well.
COOPER: Kimberly Guilfoyle, thanks. And Jane Weintraub, good to see you again.
WEINTRAUB: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Thanks for being with us.
Here's a fast fact for you, a look at how defense attorney Mark Geragos has made out in other high profile cases. He won acquittal on all charges for Susan McDougal, who was the center of the Clinton Whitewater investigation. He lost the case for Winona Ryder, who was convicted of shoplifting. Geragos, was also Michael Jackson's lawyer for a short time. He was recently replaced.
360 next, getting to the truth behind the Swift Boat ads, the controversy over Kerry's record in Vietnam, fact or fiction, try to sort it all out and talk to two representatives from both campaigns.
Also tonight. You may not believe what some people find funny. How one comedy show may tell us a lot about hate. 360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Although a number of the allegations made by the so- called Swift Boat Veterans For Truth have been discredited or found to be based on hearsay, the group continues to run commercials in several key battleground states and the political war of words continues to heat up. Consider this: the ad that started this controversy ran in only three states that cost the group a relatively modest $500,000. How did it come to this? CNN's Adaora Udoji takes a look at the anatomy of a political firestorm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The controversy began immediately after the ad aired August 5 in three battleground states accusing John Kerry of lying about his decorated Vietnam war record.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry is no war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed all his ship mates, he lied before the Senate.
UDOJI: That day Republican senator and Vietnam veteran John McCain called it, quote, "dishonest and dishonorable" while urging the White House to condemn it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Bush's reelection campaign has denied that it has any ties to the group.
UDOJI: Each day since, the story has picked up steam nationally while the ad played only in Ohio, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep pockets campaign to discredit John Kerry's service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calls for President Bush to denounce these television ads criticizing Kerry's war service.
UDOJI: More has become known about the creators the past two weeks. They're former Navy men calling themselves Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, a group heavily backed by President Bush supporters. Their accusations are contradicted by a former crewman of Kerry's and records. Friday, Kerry's campaign filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission accusing the Bush reelection campaign of illegally coordinating with the anti-Kerry group. Then today, released their own advertisement.
AD ANNOUNCER: George Bush denounced the smear. Get back to the issues. America deserves better.
UDOJI: The Bush team denies any wrongdoing. From Crawford, Texas today President Bush commended Kerry's war record then condemned political advertising from third parties but did not condemn the content of the ad attacking Kerry. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the two sides in the Swift Boat controversy not done talking. Terry Holt, national spokesman for the Bush/Cheney '04 presidential campaign joins us now, along with Michael Meehan, the senior adviser to the Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign.
Gentlemen, I appreciate you being on. Terry, let me start off with you. This first ad aired August 5. That day John McCain came out, called it dishonest. Why did it take President Bush so long to just today to say that ad, he didn't like it?
TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY NATL. SPOKESMAN: You know, in fact, I've been on your show before talking about 527s, and the profound impact they're having on the campaign. This was only interesting to John Kerry when it began to happen to him. There have been $63 million spent as your report pointed out. This is only a small fraction of the broader situation we have here.
COOPER: But beyond talking about the broad situation, this ad in particular, if the president didn't like it, couldn't he have picked up the phone and called Bob Perry or any of the people who funded it?
HOLT: But fundamentally, Cooper, this is a political tactic by the Kerry campaign. They got attacked by this group. Two weeks go by. And then they feel like it's hurting them. So their tactic is to attack the president. When we've been talking about these 527s and the effect they can have on the campaign, on the decision people are about to make in the race, this is old news to us. We've seen it before. It's John Kerry's political problem that's making this a story.
COOPER: Michael, what about these 527s? Today the president said we should get rid of all of their ads. Does Kerry believe the same thing? I haven't heard him say that.
MICHAEL MEEHAN, KERRY-EDWARDS SR. ADVISER: John Kerry believes that we should have much tighter campaign finance. But that's not what is at the core here. The president today missed a chance again for the 14th day in a row to say that these ads are dishonest and despicable, the words of John McCain. What he chose to do instead was not do that. What he's allowed to go on is smears by these veterans on John Kerry's naval record and on the men who served on those missions with him. Just yesterday we learned Bill Rood, a "Chicago Tribune" editor came with a first person account of what happened on the day that Kerry won his Silver Star and said what these guys are doing hurts us all. And this president as a commander- in-chief has a special obligation to say enough attacking the Navy record of John Kerry and the other men and let's put this to an end and he chose not to.
COOPER: So far I'm two for two and neither of you guys answered my question. Michael, let me try to follow up on you and I want to go back to Terry. About the 527s though, I mean, there are some who say this is a little bit like that French detective in "Casablanca" saying I'm shocked to find there's gambling in Rick's casino. John Kerry has benefited enormously from some of these 527 groups. Would he be willing to say let's do away with them or at least let's not have any of their ads?
MEEHAN: Sure, if we could get the laws changed and that's going to happen when John Kerry is president. You're going to get campaign finance laws that takes these groups, that minimizes their impact. George Bush signed this into law. If he wanted a tougher law, he could have gotten it. But what happens here is when these groups go over the line. John Kerry cried foul last week when a group came out and said that George Bush's military record was insufficient and when someone compared George Bush to Adolf Hitler this spring, John Kerry said that's over the line and condemned that. This president hasn't condemned these smears and these lies on Kerry's military record and he should, he's the commander-in-chief.
COOPER: Terry, I'm going to ask you that particular -- I'm going to try it with you once again. Bob Perry who is a, I guess, an old friend of Karl Rove's, gave a lot of money to this group early on to help them get it started. Why doesn't Karl Rove, if they're so opposed to these ads, call up his old friend and say, stop funding these guys?
HOLT: Come on now. This is such a fascinating story. Because it is, as your program pointed out, sort of an anatomy of a media crisis for John Kerry. It does hurt them, but it's something, it's a debate they're having with an organization out there that disputes their view of it, and for our campaign, you know, his ad says today, you know, go back to the issues. We're about today. We put a spot together. It's about taxes and the economy and the middle class and how the middle class needs a break from John Kerry's kind of policies. We're not talking about that at all in this thing and fundamentally, this is about an unintended consequence of a group that they have out there because of the world that they created with their own 527s.
COOPER: Michael, very briefly, you've been saying all along this group is a front for the Bush administration. In fact, I think you've said that they're actually working together. Do you have any evidence of that?
MEEHAN: Sure, a Bush campaign official who's on the veterans committee starred in the ad. There were three guys in their new ad...
COOPER: You're talking about Ken Cordier. I just want Terry to respond to that. Is that fair?
(CROSSTALK)
MEEHAN: He was on the Bush campaign as of Saturday and he had to resign because he starred in this 527 ad. Also, the Bush campaign does in Gainesville, Florida, on Saturday did rally together with Swift Boat Veterans and the Bush campaign...
COOPER: OK, I give to it to Terry to respond to that.
HOLT: Come on. These are volunteer staffers out in America, not the kinds of people like Jim Jordan who ran Kerry's campaign, who runs the biggest 527 in town or any of the other senior people, Bill Richardson who was the chairman of your convention...
COOPER: Terry, you're saying point blank, no linkage.
HOLT: ... who was on the board of one of these.
COOPER: You're saying point blank, no linkage. HOLT: These people have taken advantage of this big, huge hole in the law for a long time. And I'm just saying that this is their baby come home to roost.
COOPER: We've got to end it there. Terry Holt, Michael Meehan, appreciate you two guys being on the program. Thank you.
MEEHAN: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Which political party do you think is more media-savvy? That's the buzz question tonight, Republican or Democrat? Log on to cnn.com/360, cast your vote. Results at the end of the program tonight.
And a British comic skit leaves viewers laughing, shocked and some livid. Next on 360, how Ali G's performance and audience response is leading to charges of anti-Semitism.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: HBO's brilliant "Da Ali G Show" is subversive and funny often, but tonight it's coming under fire from Jewish groups in both the U.S. and U.K. They're incensed about a skit in which the host led an Arizona bar crowd in a line dance that was anti-Semitic. Some call it questionable. The question is, where does the bigotry really lie?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASHA BARON COHEN, ACTOR: Hello.
COOPER (voice-over): If you've never seen "Da Ali G Show," well, it's a little difficult to describe. British comedian Sasha Baron Cohen as Ali G and his other alter egos gets unwilling guests to make startling revelations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barely legal.
COHEN: Barely legal free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free. OK. Good.
COOPER: Or take part in seemingly silly stunts.
COHEN: It's a fake gun. He's got a fake gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, that's fine.
COOPER: In the show, we get to laugh at tongue-tied media mavens.
COHEN: Has you ever interviewed Shakespeares?
COOPER: Or out-of-touch politicos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's just a -- I think that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). COOPER: Or full of themselves fashionistas.
COHEN: So, Burt Reynolds, keep him in the ghetto or a train to Auschwitz?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Auschwitz.
COOPER: But it's Cohen character, Borat, a reporter from Kazakhstan making a documentary about the U.S. that's causing the stir.
In a recent episode, Borat sings a song with anti-Semitic lyrics.
And surprisingly, the jubilant crowd joins in. In a letter to Cohen, the Anti-Defamation League said they received hundreds of complaints, and said, quote, "we're concerned that the irony may have been lost on some your audience or worse, that some of your viewers may have simply accepted Borat's statements about Jews at face value."
So that begs the question, who deserves to be the subject of scorn? The people who happily sang along with a clearly racist song, or the man who reminded us that when it comes to racial and religious harmony, we still have a long way to go? Attacking the messenger may make for good copy, but exposing painful truths wrapped in a layer of laughter could be why comedy is hard inside the box.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, contacted by CNN, HBO and executives of "Da Ali G Show" declined to comment.
360 next, well, today's "Buzz." Which political party do you think is more media savvy, Republicans or Democrats? Getting a lot of response on this. Log onto cnn.com/360, cast your vote, results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Which political party do you think is more savvy? Here's what you said -- 63 Republicans, 37 percent Democrat. Not a scientific poll, but it is your buzz.
Tonight, taking the knock of opportunity to "The Nth Degree."
Boy, oh, boy, this is really exciting. We can get you in on the ground floor of a deal that has never, ever been available before. See, the group that assigns names to living things, the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, is running out of money. They may even go out of business. You know, these are the folks who have taken over the work began in 1758 by the Swedish scientist Carol Linnaeus, the father of taxonomy, which is the orderly scientific naming of living things.
The commission is not asking for contributions from the public, you understand, but it seems to us that folks who do chip in might have the right to do a little naming of their own. Consider the chances you might have had in the past. Today, people might be calling this a Betty C. Cromwell. And this handsome creature a Joey Scarlatto. On safari, folks might point and say, look, a herd of Moskowitzes. Don't like your mother-in-law? Don't get mad. Give her name to a slug.
Remember, there still are millions of undiscovered and unnamed critters out there. Cough up a five-spot, and one of them could be your very own Tom, Dick or Harry.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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