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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Conflicting Polls Make Presidential Race Impossible To Gauge; Death Toll Continues To Rise In Wake Of Ivan
Aired September 17, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Ivan's aftermath, lost homes, lost lives, and another storm on the way.
360 starts now.
The death toll rises in the wake of Ivan. Southern states clean up as heavy rains head north. Tonight, we track the storm, the damage, and the price in lives.
The race for president, neck and neck, or not even close? Conflicting polls, which should you believe? The guys from "CROSSFIRE" take sides.
Outrage in Iraq, a Baghdad bloodbath from a suicide car bomb. Is the Bush administration underestimating the situation in Iraq?
Michael Jackson, face to face with the mother of his alleged victim. Tonight, we take you inside the courtroom for the dramatic showdown.
Kobe Bryant in his own words, raw, uncensored. What he told police about sex, his accuser, and what really happened in that hotel room.
And covering a hurricane to "The Nth Degree." What we learned, or maybe didn't, in the eye of Ivan.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: An update on the storm shortly.
But first, the world of politics. With just 46 days to go until election day, the candidates are trying for a laserlike focus on their favorite issues. Trouble is that sometimes the issues they don't want to talk about rear their ugly heads as well.
Case in point, (audio interrupt) release of documents from President Bush's National Guard days. We'll get to those in a minute.
Our report on what Iraq did or didn't have in the way of weapons of mass destruction.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is on the campaign trail with the president, joins us from Charlotte. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello, Anderson.
President Bush making two stops today in Washington in Charlotte, North Carolina. That's where he raised more than $3 million for the Republican Party as he continues to campaign across the country emphasizing his domestic agenda but also making the case that the U.S., the administration heading in the right direction in the war on terror.
But the president did not talk about his administration's own draft report for the Iraq Survey Group that sources say concluded that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction immediately prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. But it also indicates that Saddam had the intention of acquiring such weapons, that he continued to deceive U.N. weapons inspectors, importing banned materials and also trying to acquire long-range ballistic missiles.
But President Bush today again arguing despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction found, that he made the right decision in invading Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We didn't find the stockpiles we thought we would find, the stockpiles that everybody thought was there. But I do know -- I do know -- I do know that he had the capability of making those weapons, and he could have passed that capability on to an enemy. And that's a risk we could not afford to take after September the 11th. Knowing what I know today, I would have made the same decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And Anderson, President Bush saying that next week, he will sit with the prime minister of Iraq, Iyad Allawi. That is when he goes before the United Nations in New York. He will continue to make the case to the world and to American voters that the administration did the right thing in invading Iraq and that they are on the right course in the war on terror, Anderson.
COOPER: Suzanne, how is the president portraying the war in Iraq right now? I mean, is he generally optimistic about it on the campaign trail?
MALVEAUX: Well, he certainly is optimistic about it. But he also does talk about the difficulties. He talks about some of the casualties. He talks about the days ahead. But Anderson, I have to tell you that the White House, the Bush administration, very much aware that they have seen a very tough month, just this past month here. And they also concede that this is going to be much more difficult than they had imagined.
COOPER: All right. Suzanne Malveaux in Charlotte. Thanks, Suzanne. Tonight, once again, President Bush's National Guard service is in the spotlight. The Pentagon has released a new packet of Texas Air National Guard records which showed praise for Mr. Bush from the commander of his unit. Some interesting things inside the packet included a letter from Mr. Bush's father, then a congressman, to that commander.
It says, and I quote, "That a major general in the Air Force would take interest in a brand-new Air Force trainee made a big impression on me."
The packet also contains National Guard news releases that were sent to Houston newspapers about the young Mr. Bush. They say, and I quote, "George Bush is one member of the younger generation who doesn't get his kicks from pot or hashish or speed. Oh, he gets high, all right, but not from narcotics."
As you know, a new book by Kitty Kelley accuses Mr. Bush of having used cocaine, a charge the White House has denied.
Meanwhile, President Bush's rival, Democratic Senator John Kerry, took his campaign to New Mexico and Colorado, trying to keep his focus on the Bush administration's policies on the war in Iraq. But instead of going solely after President Bush, today the senator also took aim at Vice President Cheney.
CNN's Dan Lothian has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seizing on what one of his advisers called the most radioactive issue in this race, Senator John Kerry launched a blistering attack on Vice President Dick Cheney's links with Halliburton and on President Bush.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We need a president and a vice president who aren't going to sacrifice the taxpayers' money on the alter of no-bid cronyism while our fighting men and women go without the armor and the equipment that they need.
LOTHIAN: At a town hall meeting in Albuquerque, Kerry said his administration would not be a slave to special interests, and borrowed a line from a well-known reality show.
KERRY: As commander in chief, I've got two words for companies like Halliburton that abuse the American taxpayer and the trust -- you're fired.
LOTHIAN: The Bush-Cheney campaign retorted that these latest attacks were tired and recycled. But the Kerry campaign was relentless on the issue today, greeting the vice president as he visited Oregon with this new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, KERRY-EDWARDS 2004 AD)
ANNOUNCER: Vice President Dick Cheney received $2 million from Halliburton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOTHIAN: The ad will also play in key battleground states next week.
(on camera): Even though the Kerry campaign believes this is an issue that will resonate with voters, who see it as yet another example of special interests winning out over the average American, there is no independent polling to back that up.
(voice-over): Kerry is also persisting with his attack on the president over Iraq intelligence assessments, and his credibility, and today made a new allegation based, he says, on information from congressional leaders.
KERRY: ... that this administration is planning yet another substantial callup of reservists and Guard units immediately after the election. Hide it from people through the election, then make the move.
LOTHIAN: The Pentagon denied any hidden plan, telling CNN future deployments have already been publicized. The Bush campaign described the allegations as false and baseless conspiracy theories.
A new Gallup poll gives Bush a substantial lead in the race. But Kerry advisers are downplaying the numbers, citing instead a half- dozen other polls which show the race is a statistical dead heat.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Albuquerque.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We're going to talk more about those polls and about Iraq with the guys from "CROSSFIRE" a little later on 360.
Iraq, of course, talked about on the campaign trail. Today from the country itself, more attacks. In Fallujah, another U.S. air strike on buildings believed to be linked to terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and questions on whether once again innocent civilians were killed.
While in Baghdad, two car bombs, one that caused several deaths, another that could have been much worth -- worse.
CNN's Walter Rodgers has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These Iraqi police vehicles bore the brunt of the latest suicide car bomb that killed three policemen and five civilians in central Baghdad.
Earlier in the morning, two other suicide bombers tried to attack a U.S. Army checkpoint further up the same street, but soldiers opened fire, and the suicide bombers were killed before they could hurt others.
In between these two checkpoints, Iraqi children fled continuing gun battles between the U.S. military and the insurgents. This as the Americans tried to weed out stubborn urban resistance here in Baghdad.
But they get no credit from the Iraqis. A woman complained, "The Americans have been here for 24 hours, and there are so many wounded." The Americans were also denounced amid the rubble of another U.S. air strike in Fallujah, this Iraqi calling President Bush a criminal who should stop boasting about freedom.
U.S. warplanes targeted another Abu Musab Zarqawi meeting site in Fallujah. U.S. military sources claim 60 of his supporters were killed. But Iraqi police say 20 civilians died in the air strike.
(on camera): No matter which death toll you choose to believe, the numbers continue to jump upward for both Iraqis and Americans, challenging, at least in the eyes of many Iraqis, the premise this war has been a success story.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, back here at home, let's talk about Hurricane Ivan. May no longer be a hurricane, but it is still causing widespread destruction and misery as it moves further north.
Right now, what is left of Ivan has formed an extraordinary 400- mile squall line up the East Coast, from roughly Charleston, South Carolina, to Washington, D.C. And that's producing a narrow 400-mile- plus line of thunderstorms, heavy rain, and possible tornadoes.
The death toll has climbed to at least 22. And where Ivan first came ashore in Alabama today, the governor got a closer look at the devastation.
CNN's Gary Tuchman has more on the damage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUNE LOVELL, ORANGE BEACH RESIDENT: Based on how bad we knew the storm was, we figured that it would be bad here. Our house, as you can see, sits just very low on the ground. And it's a historic house. It was built in the 1930s.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): June Lovell and her husband's dream house has been decimated by Hurricane Ivan, one of countless homes to suffer that fate on the Alabama coastline.
LOVELL: You can see the structure is still there. And it just gutted it and flooded it. So we can rebuild.
TUCHMAN: Walls caved in, windows were smashed, personal belongings destroyed.
LOVELL: This is my back door and my kitchen. I'm sorry about the mess. My kitchen is a little messy right now.
TUCHMAN: The couple had evacuated their home, like virtually everybody in the town of Orange Beach, population 4,000. The mayor says the nearly 100 percent evacuation compliance was key.
MAYOR STEVE RUSSO, ORANGE BEACH, ALABAMA: I'm very, very grateful. You hate to see damage to property, but none of that is anything compared to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) human life.
TUCHMAN: June Lovell is also grateful that she, her family, and friends are safe. Now, it's time to rebuild.
LOVELL: We worked hard to get all of this, and we can do that again. You know, we can -- we lived with little or nothing, and we can do that again. It's tough to start over, but we can do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Going back to their homes, tens of thousands of beachfront residents here in Orange Beach, Alabama, and the neighboring town of Gulf Shores, Alabama, and a few blocks behind me, over the border in Florida, have been told they have to stay away from their homes right now for their safety.
They're not even allowed to go look at them. Many of them will be allowed to go look at their homes later this weekend. But as far as when they're going to be able to live in their homes again, we're not sure about that. Authorities don't know when it will be safe.
That is, if they're able to live in their homes at all.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Gary, thanks for that. Good to see you got a little bit of rest, Gary. Gary Tuchman.
A controlled blast brings down part of that nuclear power plant. That story tops our look at what's going on around the country right now.
Maine, the Yankees containment dome toppled to the ground today with the help of 1,100 pounds of explosives. There it is, the 150- foot-tall structure. It was the most visible symbol of the power plant during its 24 years of operation. And there it goes. The plant is being decommissioned after several years of problems.
Tallahassee, Florida, now, victory for Ralph Nader. The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that Nader should be on the state's ballot as the Reform Party's presidential candidate. Over the past few days, Nader's been on and off the ballot after Florida's Democratic Party argued the Reform Party is no longer legitimate party under state law. Nader is on the ballot in 34 other states, mostly as an independent candidate.
In Los Angeles, the coroner says drugs contributed to the death of Rick James. The superfreak died of a heart attack, but he had nine drugs in his system, nine, among them, Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, crystal meth, and cocaine. And that's only five of them. The coroner says James did not die of an overdose, but the death is still ruled accidental. James was found dead in his Hollywood home on August 6.
And that's a quick look at what's going on round cross-country tonight.
360 next, Michael Jackson face to face with his accuser's mom. With a big showdown in court today, there they are, the Jackson family came out in force, all dressed identically. Think they coordinate that kind of stuff? They probably do. We'll take you inside the courthouse for what happened.
Also, raw politics. Where is John Edwards? Is playing Mr. Nice Guy keeping him out of the press? Take a closer look with the "CROSSFIRE" guys.
Plus, poll numbers up. Some are up, some are down. We'll go 360 on that.
And the Kobe Bryant interview. New details about what took place in that Eagle, Colorado, hotel room. We have the police transcripts from Kobe Bryant himself, what he said to police. It's going to surprise you.
All that ahead.
Let's take a look at your picks first, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, for any entertainer, part of maintaining the freshness of your show is to change it up a little bit every time, you know, like Cher does. Today another variation on the Michael Jackson goes to court show, as he and his famous siblings showed up dressed in white, prepared for a showdown. We're assuming they coordinated outfits. Maybe late-night phone calls the night before.
For the very first time since molestation charges came out, Jackson went face to face with the mother of his 12-year-old accuser.
CNN's Miguel Marquez reports from the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In their now trademark white, the Jackson six -- Michael, Janet, Latoya, Jermaine, Randy, and Jacqui -- march into court, where they saw the mother of Jackson's accuser testify, a woman only referred to as Jane Doe.
MAUREEN ORTH, "VANITY FAIR": I thought Mrs. Doe was very feisty in there. And she made it clear that she was not going to be trampled upon.
MARQUEZ: Repeatedly, Jane Doe pointed at Michael Jackson, who sat staring only a few feet away, and accused what she called his damage control team of torturing her and her family.
She faced sharp questioning from Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau. He asked whether Jane Doe knew that Bradley Miller, a private investigator, worked for Jackson's former attorney, Mark Geragos, and if so, did she tell investigators?
The defense contends that if she did, the evidence obtained in an police raid on Miller's offices should be inadmissible. But Jane Doe gave no ground.
ORTH: They have to shred her, they have to destroy this woman in order to win their case. And they're going to do everything in their power to destroy her.
MARQUEZ: After Jane Doe left the stand, Jackson's lawyers admitted the pop star had been mistaken to pay off two previous allegations of child molestation. Mesereau argued the amount Jackson paid was minuscule, given his fortune, and that Jackson had been advised to settle to avoid a long, public battle.
THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: Greed begets greed. Mr. Jackson now realizes that the advice he received was wrong. He should have fought these actions to the bitter end and vindicated himself.
MARQUEZ: The ever-present fans could be measured by the tens, rather than the hundreds. But their belief in Michael Jackson's innocence appears to have no end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now, in the coming days, a judge will issue a decision in writing as to what evidence any eventual jury may hear. The next hearing date is October 14. At that time, Jackson's lawyers, we know, will argue his (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- his bail, $3 million, should be reduced, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Miguel, thanks for covering the case, covering the case for us tonight.
Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom, who is not wearing white, because it is after Labor Day, and from Philadelphia, CNN contributor and attorney Michael Smerconish, also in blue.
Good to have you here, Michael. Good to have you here, Lisa.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, AUTHOR, "FLYING BIRD": Thank you.
COOPER: Lisa, let me start off with you. Basically, what were they trying to show in court today? I mean, you had the -- this mother on the stand testifying. I mean, certain arcane point about this private investigator. But they were really trying to make her look like a shakedown artist.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, that's right. This was technically about whether the mother knew that Bradley Miller, a private investigator, was hired by Mark Geragos over a year ago, and therefore, all of his investigation would be privileged.
If you think this young woman had any idea who he was hired by and the legal relationships, it's just absurd. And she said in court she just really didn't know.
But what's really going on is, all the Jacksons showing up similarly dressed, in a phalanx, staring her down. Let me tell you, Anderson, this woman sat down, according to all the reports, gave a cross, across her chest, a sign of the cross, was very animated, gestured a lot, looked right at Michael Jackson.
This is the kind of woman who might be able to stand up to Michael Jackson. She gave no ground in her testimony.
COOPER: Michael, what do you think? I mean, was a lot of this show, I mean, them all showing up in white, sort of this united front?
SMERCONISH: I think it's all show. I mean, Lisa's right, it's an evidence suppression hearing theoretically, but it's all a mental chess game. And it's team Jackson trying to go on the offensive and make her think twice. I mean, look, they got a free shot at her today. And it reminded me of what went on in those preliminary hearings for the Kobe case, where the accuser had to come in and testify with Kobe there.
BLOOM: That's right.
SMERCONISH: And they were able to shake her up in that case such that in the end, she didn't go through with it. And I've got to believe that that's what they were trying to do today.
COOPER: Thomas Mesereau made a statement, we saw a little bit. I want to show you some more about what he said about a previous allegation that had been settled out of court. Let's show this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MESEREAU: Many years ago, he did pay money rather than litigate two false allegations that he had harmed children. People who intended to earn millions of dollars from his record and music promotions did not want negative publicity from these lawsuits interfering with their profits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So why make this statement now? Why go back to that original case?
BLOOM: Well, because it's come out publicly that Jackson made not just one, but two multimillion-dollar payoffs in the early 1990s. And, you know, Anderson, I went back and looked at the 1994 settlement agreement that Jackson signed. He and his attorneys are barred from making this kind of statement publicly, saying that they were false allegations, commenting on that accuser.
I'm very surprised to hear his attorney doing that. And he went on to say there have been over 1,000 claims made against Jackson. Now, probably not all claims like molestation. But he wasn't clear about what kind of claims. Michael Jackson apparently is a guy who gets sued quite a bit.
COOPER: Michael, what do you make of this? Again, just part of the show?
SMERCONISH: I found it interesting that he said that Michael Jackson had received some bad legal advice, and that's why...
BLOOM: Yes.
SMERCONISH: ... he'd paid the money. Look, all he had to do today was walk out of the courtroom and get into his car after this evidence suppression hearing. And instead, he makes this unsolicited statement about why Jackson paid money in the past.
It was more of team Jackson going on the offensive. And Lisa's right, the whole world knows that Michael Jackson has paid money to resolve other cases. And I think he wants to explain and get ahead of the curve on that before there is a trial, if there's going to be a trial.
BLOOM: And he's also passing the buck, though, Anderson, blaming the music industry for forcing him into those settlements, blaming his prior attorney, Johnnie Cochran, for giving him bad advice? You know, Michael Jackson's always pointing to somebody else.
COOPER: All right. We're going to leave it here. Michael Smerconish, Lisa Bloom, thanks very much.
BLOOM: Thanks.
COOPER: 360 next, also tonight, an exclusive report. Kobe Bryant in his own words, for the very first time. It's a fascinating transcript. Hear what he says happened in that Eagle, Colorado, hotel room, and why he told police it wasn't the first time something like this has happened.
Also a little later tonight, Scott Peterson breaking down in tears in court. Find out why the accused killer wept.
360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It's become commonplace this election year. A presidential candidate gets up to speak, and someone in the crowd tries to get in the way. Just look at what happened today at a rally for Vice President Cheney. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just some guy in the crowd grabbed him.
It's not just the candidates who are getting heckled. Yesterday, protester Sue Niederer was removed from a rally for First Lady Laura Bush. Then look, she's about to get arrested right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to arrest you, ma'am.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
SUE NIEDERER, LOST SON IN IRAQ WAR: Go ahead, come on. Arrest me, right in front of everybody. Go ahead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She had been wearing a shirt with a picture of her son, Army Lieutenant Seth de Voren (ph), who'd been killed in Iraq. She said she only wanted to ask the first lady a question but was shouted down by the crowd chanting "Four more years." Niederer was eventually arrested outside for trespassing.
Earlier today, I talked with her about what happened.
Sue, why did you go to the Laura Bush speech and yell out at her?
NIEDERER: I went to the Laura Bush speech for one reason, and the reason was to ask a question of Laura Bush and to receive an answer from her.
COOPER: And the question was?
NIEDERER: The question was very simple. Why, if this war is justified, and we need to be over there fighting terrorism, why aren't her children, senators', legislators', congressmen's children over there spending their time and fighting for this just cause?
COOPER: Did you really expect to get an answer, though? I mean, was this more to make a point?
NIEDERER: No, this was to get an answer for her -- or from her, or to have her come and have possibly her people pull me aside and say to me, Sue, we would like to speak to you later on. Mrs. Bush would like to address you personally.
COOPER: Why is this so important to you to get this answer to this question?
NIEDERER: Because I think it's extremely unfair that there's only three (UNINTELLIGIBLE), three people fighting in Iraq, or even actually -- excuse me, in the military at this point. Why do they not send their own children over, if this is such a justified war? And we need to be over there, why aren't they allowing their own children to go over and fight for this cause?
COOPER: Well, I guess, I mean, just to play devil's advocate, there is not a draft, so it's not a question of forcing anyone to go. Your son volunteered, the others who are there have volunteered.
NIEDERER: That is correct. But what's going to happen when there is going to be a draft, which it probably will be? Are these people going to have their children be drafted and go over there? Or is it going to be the same complacent thing? They are going to get out of the draft, or they will not serve any time in a war zone, just as Mr. Bush himself has not.
COOPER: Sue, you had a T-shirt, and on it said, "President Bush killed my son." Do you really believe that?
NIEDERER: Absolutely. He is the commander in chief of this country and this nation. Without him, we would not be at war. We would not have gone anywhere into Iraq. And he -- without his permission, we don't go anywhere or do anything. So he is totally responsible for everything in this country.
COOPER: What did you get arrested for? I mean, we see that videotape where police are arresting you. What was the charge? Because you were basically just talking to reporters (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you were outside the hall.
NIEDERER: Disruptive trespassing is what they charged me with.
COOPER: And how were you treated?
NIEDERER: By the Hamilton police, very well. They were -- except for the fact that they rode me around and kept me in the parking lot for approximately 40 minutes. Once I reached the station, they were wonderful.
COOPER: You know, Sue, the, a lot of people say, you know, you have the right to ask this question, but not in the way you did, it was disrespectful. You know, Laura Bush should be able to give a speech without somebody interrupting it.
NIEDERER: If I was disrespectful, so was everybody else in there that is chanting "Four more years," "Go, Bush, go," and whatever else they were chanting. That's -- it's called freedom of speech. I had a right to ask a question and ask or do just the same as anyone else that was standing there chanting, yelling, and screaming. COOPER: Sue Niederer, we appreciate you joining us and talking about what you did and your son, Lieutenant Seth de Voren. Thanks very much, Sue.
NIEDERER: Thank you.
COOPER: The race for president, neck and neck, or not even close? Conflicting polls. Which should you believe? The guys from "CROSSFIRE" take sides.
Kobe Bryant in his own words, raw, uncensored. What he told police about sex, his accuser, and what really happened in that hotel room.
And covering a hurricane to the nth degree. What we learned, or maybe didn't, in the eye of Ivan.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Kobe Bryant's attorneys are outraged tonight, and you're about to hear why. It's a 360 exclusive. Sealed transcripts of Bryant's first police interview, done before he was even arrested and charged with raping a 19-year-old woman, were leaked to the media. But for the first time tonight, you actually hear Bryant's interview. CNN's Adaora Udoji has the exclusive details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) and two Colorado detectives. The exchange revealing salacious details of Bryant's encounter with the woman accusing him of rape was sent to the "Vail Daily News," in defiance of a court order temporarily sealing all records of the now dismissed criminal case.
At first (AUDIO GAP).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: ... wanted me to sign.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: But Michael...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... her story from the beginning was that she went into the room to get his autograph. That's why she brought the pen. She goes in bringing a pen, not a condom, not something contemplating a sexual act. And Michael, what about the fact that Kobe says he didn't finish, and yet Kobe's semen is found on her. Another lie.
SMERCONISH: It doesn't bode well for the Lower Marion public schools, because the detectives say, hey, Kobe, isn't that something you learned in seventh grade in sex ed? But Lisa, I read this account perhaps as a guy, and I just -- I see it, I understand it. He's petrified. And that's all you're going to get from this. If I were Kobe Bryant, I would be thrilled to have this come in in a civil case.
BLOOM: You know, Michael, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Michael Jackson story. Kobe also admits he put his hands around her neck. That would explain the mark on her neck. That he has big, powerful, strong hands. You can understand how she would think this is non-consensual, wouldn't you?
SMERCONISH: And he says, you can go ask Michelle -- and I'm paraphrasing -- because that's the way I always do it. I mean, does that sound like a guy who is afraid of the truth?
BLOOM: That doesn't sound like a great defense to me, Michael. That's how I always do it, with my hands around her neck.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, you were wrong about the direction of the criminal case. There will never be a civil case either, mark my words.
COOPER: All right, we'll be watching for that. We would like to get all sides.
Lisa Bloom, thanks very much. Michael Smerconish, thanks very much.
BLOOM: Thank you.
SMERCONISH: OK.
COOPER: Well, for much of the trial, Scott Peterson has sat impassive, watching, listening to the testimony without reacting. Occasionally taking notes. Yesterday, Peterson broke down and cried as the court heard details about Laci Peterson and her baby's mangled body.
CNN's Ted Rowlands reports from Redwood City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With his head turned away from the autopsy photographs, Scott Peterson broke down as a forensic pathologist detailed the condition of the remains of his unborn son. A number of jurors also wept while listening to the graphic testimony.
The pathologist, who performed autopsies on both Laci Peterson and their child's fetus, testified that because of the level of decomposition, he was unable to determine a cause of death in either case.
Prosecutors were able to get the pathologist to say that the baby was in much better condition than Laci in terms of decomposition. They said the baby was most likely protected from the elements of the San Francisco Bay by his mother's uterus, the only organ left in her body. The pathologist said that in his opinion, those elements of the Bay eventually ruptured the uterus, allowing the fetus to come out.
DEAN JOHNSON, LEGAL ANALYST: That certainly negates any idea of devil cults, abductors holding on to the baby after they've disposed of Laci's body, anything like that.
ROWLANDS: The defense contends that the opening in the uterus was the result of an assault, and that the baby was intentionally removed from Laci Peterson's body.
Peterson's attorneys focused on a piece of tape, or twine, found around the baby's neck and chest, implying the fetus was protected by some sort of wrapping. A forensic anthropologist used bone measurements to estimate the baby's age, between 33 and 38 weeks. The defense claims this helps prove that the child was alive for at least a week after Laci Peterson was reported missing, a period of time when Scott Peterson was under
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
the baby's age between 33 and 38 weeks. The defense claims this helps prove that the child was alive for at least a week after Laci Peterson was reported missing a period of time when Scott Peterson was under 24-hour surveillance by police.
Because of the graphic nature of the testimony this week, Laci Peterson's family, the Rochas, did not attend court. The prosecution is winding down. They expect another two weeks of testimony for their portion of the case, then it is on to the defense. Ted Rowlands, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: 360 next. Bush versus Kerry. Poll numbers up and down. Who's got the edge? We're going to talk politics in the "CROSSFIRE."
Also tonight the dark horse in the Emmy race, the show the critics call the best show on TV that nobody watches. Take a look at that in "The Weekender."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards didn't campaign today. The question is, did you notice? Some campaign observers say he has virtually disappeared even as his Republican counterpart Vice President Cheney takes daily shots at the Democratic ticket. That's what many seem to expect now from vice presidential candidates in the world of raw politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): This is not a question a candidate wants to hear about his running mate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Edwards? I wondered if he's still on the ticket. We haven't heard from him.
COOPER: But it's a question that seems to be coming up more and more about John Edwards. See, there's a reason why Dick Cheney is referred to as the Republican attack dog.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: A senator can be wrong for 20 years without consequence for the nation. But a president, a president always casts the deciding vote.
Because if we make the wrong choice, the danger is that we'll get hit again.
COOPER: But can his Democratic counterpart respond in kind?
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Anybody that watched the Senate campaign in 1998 when Senator Edwards campaigned against Loch Faircloth would be certain that Senator Edwards not only has the capacity to respond in kind but he can do it with a great deal of humor and he can do it with a smile on his face.
COOPER: The Kerry campaign says John Edwards is doing his bit and biting back. Whistlestop visits to 10 battleground states, a Kentucky fundraiser that added $700,000 to the Kerry campaign coffers and some well-placed barbs of his own.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every single one of those presidents created jobs until this president.
Because they can't defend this record. It's impossible. You can't defend what they've done.
COOPER: He certainly sounds tough enough. So why does it seem he's slipped out of the spotlight?
EPSTEIN: The areas where he has been going is not too insignificant. However, I think you will see a shift in the campaign in the next few weeks, where you will see Senator Edwards going into the more marquee areas, some of the bigger markets and the battleground states. And he is a great salesman. He is the golden boy of the Democrats right now in many ways. He's sunshine guy.
COOPER: With 46 days left until the election, John Edwards can either ramp up the argument or hope that softly, softly sells on the stage of raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That gets us to today's buzz. "Which vice presidential candidate's campaign style do you think is more effective? John Edwards or Dick Cheney. Log onto CNN.com/360. Cast your votes. Results at the end of the show.
We like to cover all the angles, all the sides on 360. For two very different perspectives, we turn to "CROSSFIRE's" Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Paul, is John Edwards being used effectively?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Yes. Edwards is a guy who's really good in smalltown America. They're sending him to those battleground states in small towns. That's actually where the election is going to be won. The problem is, he doesn't get the major media. I wish he did and I think they'll maybe try to find ways to get him more in front of the major media. But his highest and best use is as a small-town guy where Democrats are dying in rural America.
COOPER: Tucker, do you think he should be used a little bit more to attack though?
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Yes, that's typically what vice presidential candidates do. In fact, that's what vice presidents do, in addition to going to the funerals of foreign leaders. But it does seem to me he's probably not best suited at attacking. That's the whole point of John Edwards is he's supposedly a sunny guy, and all that.
Who knows what's really going on in the Kerry campaign, which is in a bit of disarray at the moment. So who knows what the real dynamic is. But I will say, John Edwards, as talented as he is as a campaigner, he's quite talented, it's hard to see how he moves a lot of votes in rural areas. Rural, working-class people generally don't vote Democrat. They certainly don't in the way they did 20 years ago. And they don't over issues. From moral issues, economic issues, a whole bunch of different reasons, none of which have to do with personality. So it's just hard to see no matter how great he was, that he could move those votes back.
COOPER: I want to show you some polls. I'm continually confused by these polls. Try to explain it to me, a little bit, Paul. You know, I have the Gallup Poll which gives President Bush a big lead, 13-point lead. I've got these two other polls, one from the Pew Research Center, the other Harris Interactive says it's a statistical tie.
BEGALA: Well, if you read that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) type fine print in any poll, and you don't have to because I'll tell you about it, it says this basically, the margin of error is such that 19 times out of 20, this poll will be within that 3 points, 5 points, whatever. But one time out of 20 it's not going to be. And this is one of those -- this Gallup poll -- Democrats and Republicans both that I've talked to today said that there's no chance this race is 13. It happens once in a while. It's just an abberational poll. If you take all of the published polls that are out there, the race is within the margin of error. It's a dead heat with President Bush slightly ahead. But it's nothing like a 13-point lead.
COOPER: Tucker, what do you think? Do you believe that?
CARLSON: Yes, I do. I don't think he's up 13 points. I think he's up in a real way. It's not just -- it's not a toss-up, it's not a dead heat. I think Bush is up. Here's the truth, I think, of the race. Bush's numbers track the numbers on Iraq. As people become happier with what's happening in Iraq, feel more comfortable about the war itself, Bush's numbers rise. When they feel the opposite, more discouraged about what's happening in Iraq, his numbers fall. Literally, if you put the polls next to each other, they track. And so I would be looking to what's happening in Iraq, a, and b, maybe more important, how that's being covered, if there's a perception that things are a disaster, you will see -- it's affecting Bush's numbers immediately.
BEGALA: I think Tucker's right. Hence, John Kerry, really gutsy move, go into a very conservative group, the National Guard Association, and really tearing into President Bush on Iraq, a topic that those Guardsmen were on Bush's side. I mean, they gave Bush seven standing ovations. Kerry goes right into the lion's den, gives a very tough anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war speech. Because I think that he's sensing the same thing Tucker is, that as Iraq support rises and falls, so does the president's support.
CARLSON: And yet here's the interesting part. Coming after -- Kerry did that yesterday, today is Halliburton day. So rather than move forward with this momentum, Iraq was a bad idea, maybe try and stake out a position on Iraq that makes sense, which will be helpful if you're running for president, he instead takes off an entire day, cuts an ad and gives a speech attacking Halliburton. I bet you a million bucks that there aren't more than 20,000 people in this country who even understand what Halliburton is or how it is relevant to Iraq. It's insane, and it's not effective politically. It's a measure of how in disarray his campaign is.
COOPER: All right. Thank you. Paul Begala, thanks very much. Tucker Carlson as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Coming up next on 360. Sometimes it's better to just stay indoors. The lessons learned covering Hurricane Ivan -- yikes, was that me? -- to the Nth degree when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Sometimes it's better to just stay indoors. The lessons learned covering Hurricane Ivan -- yikes, was that me -- to the "Nth Degree" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well this weekend, a rare chance for humble Hollywood to pat itself on the back. I hope you can the sense of sarcasm in my voice. An opportunity for the best in television to tell us that they're the best in television. The 56th Annual Emmy Awards are this Sunday night. And amid the mix-up of regulars for the awards, is one show that many of you may not be familiar with. I'm actually not too familiar with it.
CNN's Sibila Vargas looks at this year's potential's dark horse in the "Weekender." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First, there were the Bunkers.
CARROLL O'CONNER, ACTOR: What's the matter, you sorehead?
VARGAS: Then there were the Bundy's.
AMANDA BEARCE, ACTRESS: I know CPR!
VARGAS: Now, meet the Bluths.
JASON BATEMAN, ACTOR: I wonder how I can talk you out of ever making that face again?
VARGAS: Fox's freshman sitcom "Arrested Development" puts the D in dysfunctional family. Eve got a jail bird father.
JEFFREY TAMBOR, ACTOR: I'm having the time of my life!
VARGAS: A self absorbed sister. An overbearing mother.
JESSICA WALTER, ACTRESS: It's his glasses, they make him look like a lizard.
VARGAS: And Jason Bateman, who plays the family's only beacon of sanity.
BATEMAN: They are going to keep dad in prison at least until this all gets sorted all. Also, the attorney said that they're going to have to put a halt in the companies expense account. Interesting, I would have expected that after they were keeping dad in jail.
VARGAS: Problem is, nobody's watching. In it's first season, the sitcom ranked 116th among primetime network shows.
CYNTHIA LITTLETON, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: It's not the kind of a show where you have a punchline, and there's a laugh track to reinforce it and you move on to the next scene. It's very much inspired by a lot of the techniques and the story telling style of reality television. Is it off-putting to the average viewer? Maybe.
VARGAS: But its innovative style and humor have made it a gem with critics. And now it's up for seven Emmys, including one for comedy series.
BATEMAN: The fact that we get a nomination perhaps means we'll be around a little bit longer and we continue living the dream.
VARGAS: Fox is expressing confidence in the show going into its second season. It will follow the Simpsons on Sundays with hope that all the buzz attracts more eyeballs. Sibila Vargas, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I actually have seen it. It's funny.
360 next, the lesson I learned, or maybe some lessons I didn't while covering Hurricane Ivan. We're going to take that to "The Nth Degree."
First, today's Buzz. "Which vice presidential candidate's campaign style is more effective?" Not actually the one you like, the one you think is more effective. "John Edwards or Dick Cheney?" Log on to CNN.com/360 cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for the "Buzz." Earlier we asked you, which vice presidential candidate's campaign style is more effective?" 87 percent of you said Edwards. 13 percent Cheney. Not a scientific poll, certainly, but it is your "Buzz."
Tonight, risk taking to "The Nth Degree." You know that phrase throwing caution to the winds. Well, the phrase suddenly makes a whole lot more sense to me, because that's exactly what my CNN and other TV colleague's and I did for about 24 hours, throwing caution to the winds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I've got some video -- oh, man!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There we were, the lot of us, ignoring our own very good advice to everyone else to flee or take shelter. Talk about not having sense enough to come in out of the rain.
See, trying to do the best live TV you can, and genuinely inform people about storm conditions, sometimes involves undertaking things that are, well, let's not say stupid, let's just say, the opposite of smart.
But I did learn a lesson, up against a great wind, you might as well be candy wrappers. Even weeds are better equipped than we are to deal with hurricanes, they have roots, whereas we, on the other hand are just very lightly set down on the crust of the Earth, flat-footed and teetering, and easy to blow away. It's a miracle we mostly aren't.
Standing out in a hurricane is a bad idea, but good for the humility. It makes you wonder why human beings spend so much time strutting their stuff the planet Earth as if we're such substantial creatures. Tell you what, we're not.
That's 360 for this week, thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 17, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Ivan's aftermath, lost homes, lost lives, and another storm on the way.
360 starts now.
The death toll rises in the wake of Ivan. Southern states clean up as heavy rains head north. Tonight, we track the storm, the damage, and the price in lives.
The race for president, neck and neck, or not even close? Conflicting polls, which should you believe? The guys from "CROSSFIRE" take sides.
Outrage in Iraq, a Baghdad bloodbath from a suicide car bomb. Is the Bush administration underestimating the situation in Iraq?
Michael Jackson, face to face with the mother of his alleged victim. Tonight, we take you inside the courtroom for the dramatic showdown.
Kobe Bryant in his own words, raw, uncensored. What he told police about sex, his accuser, and what really happened in that hotel room.
And covering a hurricane to "The Nth Degree." What we learned, or maybe didn't, in the eye of Ivan.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: An update on the storm shortly.
But first, the world of politics. With just 46 days to go until election day, the candidates are trying for a laserlike focus on their favorite issues. Trouble is that sometimes the issues they don't want to talk about rear their ugly heads as well.
Case in point, (audio interrupt) release of documents from President Bush's National Guard days. We'll get to those in a minute.
Our report on what Iraq did or didn't have in the way of weapons of mass destruction.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is on the campaign trail with the president, joins us from Charlotte. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello, Anderson.
President Bush making two stops today in Washington in Charlotte, North Carolina. That's where he raised more than $3 million for the Republican Party as he continues to campaign across the country emphasizing his domestic agenda but also making the case that the U.S., the administration heading in the right direction in the war on terror.
But the president did not talk about his administration's own draft report for the Iraq Survey Group that sources say concluded that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction immediately prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. But it also indicates that Saddam had the intention of acquiring such weapons, that he continued to deceive U.N. weapons inspectors, importing banned materials and also trying to acquire long-range ballistic missiles.
But President Bush today again arguing despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction found, that he made the right decision in invading Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We didn't find the stockpiles we thought we would find, the stockpiles that everybody thought was there. But I do know -- I do know -- I do know that he had the capability of making those weapons, and he could have passed that capability on to an enemy. And that's a risk we could not afford to take after September the 11th. Knowing what I know today, I would have made the same decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And Anderson, President Bush saying that next week, he will sit with the prime minister of Iraq, Iyad Allawi. That is when he goes before the United Nations in New York. He will continue to make the case to the world and to American voters that the administration did the right thing in invading Iraq and that they are on the right course in the war on terror, Anderson.
COOPER: Suzanne, how is the president portraying the war in Iraq right now? I mean, is he generally optimistic about it on the campaign trail?
MALVEAUX: Well, he certainly is optimistic about it. But he also does talk about the difficulties. He talks about some of the casualties. He talks about the days ahead. But Anderson, I have to tell you that the White House, the Bush administration, very much aware that they have seen a very tough month, just this past month here. And they also concede that this is going to be much more difficult than they had imagined.
COOPER: All right. Suzanne Malveaux in Charlotte. Thanks, Suzanne. Tonight, once again, President Bush's National Guard service is in the spotlight. The Pentagon has released a new packet of Texas Air National Guard records which showed praise for Mr. Bush from the commander of his unit. Some interesting things inside the packet included a letter from Mr. Bush's father, then a congressman, to that commander.
It says, and I quote, "That a major general in the Air Force would take interest in a brand-new Air Force trainee made a big impression on me."
The packet also contains National Guard news releases that were sent to Houston newspapers about the young Mr. Bush. They say, and I quote, "George Bush is one member of the younger generation who doesn't get his kicks from pot or hashish or speed. Oh, he gets high, all right, but not from narcotics."
As you know, a new book by Kitty Kelley accuses Mr. Bush of having used cocaine, a charge the White House has denied.
Meanwhile, President Bush's rival, Democratic Senator John Kerry, took his campaign to New Mexico and Colorado, trying to keep his focus on the Bush administration's policies on the war in Iraq. But instead of going solely after President Bush, today the senator also took aim at Vice President Cheney.
CNN's Dan Lothian has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seizing on what one of his advisers called the most radioactive issue in this race, Senator John Kerry launched a blistering attack on Vice President Dick Cheney's links with Halliburton and on President Bush.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We need a president and a vice president who aren't going to sacrifice the taxpayers' money on the alter of no-bid cronyism while our fighting men and women go without the armor and the equipment that they need.
LOTHIAN: At a town hall meeting in Albuquerque, Kerry said his administration would not be a slave to special interests, and borrowed a line from a well-known reality show.
KERRY: As commander in chief, I've got two words for companies like Halliburton that abuse the American taxpayer and the trust -- you're fired.
LOTHIAN: The Bush-Cheney campaign retorted that these latest attacks were tired and recycled. But the Kerry campaign was relentless on the issue today, greeting the vice president as he visited Oregon with this new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, KERRY-EDWARDS 2004 AD)
ANNOUNCER: Vice President Dick Cheney received $2 million from Halliburton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOTHIAN: The ad will also play in key battleground states next week.
(on camera): Even though the Kerry campaign believes this is an issue that will resonate with voters, who see it as yet another example of special interests winning out over the average American, there is no independent polling to back that up.
(voice-over): Kerry is also persisting with his attack on the president over Iraq intelligence assessments, and his credibility, and today made a new allegation based, he says, on information from congressional leaders.
KERRY: ... that this administration is planning yet another substantial callup of reservists and Guard units immediately after the election. Hide it from people through the election, then make the move.
LOTHIAN: The Pentagon denied any hidden plan, telling CNN future deployments have already been publicized. The Bush campaign described the allegations as false and baseless conspiracy theories.
A new Gallup poll gives Bush a substantial lead in the race. But Kerry advisers are downplaying the numbers, citing instead a half- dozen other polls which show the race is a statistical dead heat.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Albuquerque.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We're going to talk more about those polls and about Iraq with the guys from "CROSSFIRE" a little later on 360.
Iraq, of course, talked about on the campaign trail. Today from the country itself, more attacks. In Fallujah, another U.S. air strike on buildings believed to be linked to terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and questions on whether once again innocent civilians were killed.
While in Baghdad, two car bombs, one that caused several deaths, another that could have been much worth -- worse.
CNN's Walter Rodgers has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These Iraqi police vehicles bore the brunt of the latest suicide car bomb that killed three policemen and five civilians in central Baghdad.
Earlier in the morning, two other suicide bombers tried to attack a U.S. Army checkpoint further up the same street, but soldiers opened fire, and the suicide bombers were killed before they could hurt others.
In between these two checkpoints, Iraqi children fled continuing gun battles between the U.S. military and the insurgents. This as the Americans tried to weed out stubborn urban resistance here in Baghdad.
But they get no credit from the Iraqis. A woman complained, "The Americans have been here for 24 hours, and there are so many wounded." The Americans were also denounced amid the rubble of another U.S. air strike in Fallujah, this Iraqi calling President Bush a criminal who should stop boasting about freedom.
U.S. warplanes targeted another Abu Musab Zarqawi meeting site in Fallujah. U.S. military sources claim 60 of his supporters were killed. But Iraqi police say 20 civilians died in the air strike.
(on camera): No matter which death toll you choose to believe, the numbers continue to jump upward for both Iraqis and Americans, challenging, at least in the eyes of many Iraqis, the premise this war has been a success story.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, back here at home, let's talk about Hurricane Ivan. May no longer be a hurricane, but it is still causing widespread destruction and misery as it moves further north.
Right now, what is left of Ivan has formed an extraordinary 400- mile squall line up the East Coast, from roughly Charleston, South Carolina, to Washington, D.C. And that's producing a narrow 400-mile- plus line of thunderstorms, heavy rain, and possible tornadoes.
The death toll has climbed to at least 22. And where Ivan first came ashore in Alabama today, the governor got a closer look at the devastation.
CNN's Gary Tuchman has more on the damage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUNE LOVELL, ORANGE BEACH RESIDENT: Based on how bad we knew the storm was, we figured that it would be bad here. Our house, as you can see, sits just very low on the ground. And it's a historic house. It was built in the 1930s.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): June Lovell and her husband's dream house has been decimated by Hurricane Ivan, one of countless homes to suffer that fate on the Alabama coastline.
LOVELL: You can see the structure is still there. And it just gutted it and flooded it. So we can rebuild.
TUCHMAN: Walls caved in, windows were smashed, personal belongings destroyed.
LOVELL: This is my back door and my kitchen. I'm sorry about the mess. My kitchen is a little messy right now.
TUCHMAN: The couple had evacuated their home, like virtually everybody in the town of Orange Beach, population 4,000. The mayor says the nearly 100 percent evacuation compliance was key.
MAYOR STEVE RUSSO, ORANGE BEACH, ALABAMA: I'm very, very grateful. You hate to see damage to property, but none of that is anything compared to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) human life.
TUCHMAN: June Lovell is also grateful that she, her family, and friends are safe. Now, it's time to rebuild.
LOVELL: We worked hard to get all of this, and we can do that again. You know, we can -- we lived with little or nothing, and we can do that again. It's tough to start over, but we can do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Going back to their homes, tens of thousands of beachfront residents here in Orange Beach, Alabama, and the neighboring town of Gulf Shores, Alabama, and a few blocks behind me, over the border in Florida, have been told they have to stay away from their homes right now for their safety.
They're not even allowed to go look at them. Many of them will be allowed to go look at their homes later this weekend. But as far as when they're going to be able to live in their homes again, we're not sure about that. Authorities don't know when it will be safe.
That is, if they're able to live in their homes at all.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Gary, thanks for that. Good to see you got a little bit of rest, Gary. Gary Tuchman.
A controlled blast brings down part of that nuclear power plant. That story tops our look at what's going on around the country right now.
Maine, the Yankees containment dome toppled to the ground today with the help of 1,100 pounds of explosives. There it is, the 150- foot-tall structure. It was the most visible symbol of the power plant during its 24 years of operation. And there it goes. The plant is being decommissioned after several years of problems.
Tallahassee, Florida, now, victory for Ralph Nader. The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that Nader should be on the state's ballot as the Reform Party's presidential candidate. Over the past few days, Nader's been on and off the ballot after Florida's Democratic Party argued the Reform Party is no longer legitimate party under state law. Nader is on the ballot in 34 other states, mostly as an independent candidate.
In Los Angeles, the coroner says drugs contributed to the death of Rick James. The superfreak died of a heart attack, but he had nine drugs in his system, nine, among them, Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, crystal meth, and cocaine. And that's only five of them. The coroner says James did not die of an overdose, but the death is still ruled accidental. James was found dead in his Hollywood home on August 6.
And that's a quick look at what's going on round cross-country tonight.
360 next, Michael Jackson face to face with his accuser's mom. With a big showdown in court today, there they are, the Jackson family came out in force, all dressed identically. Think they coordinate that kind of stuff? They probably do. We'll take you inside the courthouse for what happened.
Also, raw politics. Where is John Edwards? Is playing Mr. Nice Guy keeping him out of the press? Take a closer look with the "CROSSFIRE" guys.
Plus, poll numbers up. Some are up, some are down. We'll go 360 on that.
And the Kobe Bryant interview. New details about what took place in that Eagle, Colorado, hotel room. We have the police transcripts from Kobe Bryant himself, what he said to police. It's going to surprise you.
All that ahead.
Let's take a look at your picks first, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, for any entertainer, part of maintaining the freshness of your show is to change it up a little bit every time, you know, like Cher does. Today another variation on the Michael Jackson goes to court show, as he and his famous siblings showed up dressed in white, prepared for a showdown. We're assuming they coordinated outfits. Maybe late-night phone calls the night before.
For the very first time since molestation charges came out, Jackson went face to face with the mother of his 12-year-old accuser.
CNN's Miguel Marquez reports from the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In their now trademark white, the Jackson six -- Michael, Janet, Latoya, Jermaine, Randy, and Jacqui -- march into court, where they saw the mother of Jackson's accuser testify, a woman only referred to as Jane Doe.
MAUREEN ORTH, "VANITY FAIR": I thought Mrs. Doe was very feisty in there. And she made it clear that she was not going to be trampled upon.
MARQUEZ: Repeatedly, Jane Doe pointed at Michael Jackson, who sat staring only a few feet away, and accused what she called his damage control team of torturing her and her family.
She faced sharp questioning from Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau. He asked whether Jane Doe knew that Bradley Miller, a private investigator, worked for Jackson's former attorney, Mark Geragos, and if so, did she tell investigators?
The defense contends that if she did, the evidence obtained in an police raid on Miller's offices should be inadmissible. But Jane Doe gave no ground.
ORTH: They have to shred her, they have to destroy this woman in order to win their case. And they're going to do everything in their power to destroy her.
MARQUEZ: After Jane Doe left the stand, Jackson's lawyers admitted the pop star had been mistaken to pay off two previous allegations of child molestation. Mesereau argued the amount Jackson paid was minuscule, given his fortune, and that Jackson had been advised to settle to avoid a long, public battle.
THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: Greed begets greed. Mr. Jackson now realizes that the advice he received was wrong. He should have fought these actions to the bitter end and vindicated himself.
MARQUEZ: The ever-present fans could be measured by the tens, rather than the hundreds. But their belief in Michael Jackson's innocence appears to have no end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now, in the coming days, a judge will issue a decision in writing as to what evidence any eventual jury may hear. The next hearing date is October 14. At that time, Jackson's lawyers, we know, will argue his (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- his bail, $3 million, should be reduced, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Miguel, thanks for covering the case, covering the case for us tonight.
Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom, who is not wearing white, because it is after Labor Day, and from Philadelphia, CNN contributor and attorney Michael Smerconish, also in blue.
Good to have you here, Michael. Good to have you here, Lisa.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, AUTHOR, "FLYING BIRD": Thank you.
COOPER: Lisa, let me start off with you. Basically, what were they trying to show in court today? I mean, you had the -- this mother on the stand testifying. I mean, certain arcane point about this private investigator. But they were really trying to make her look like a shakedown artist.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, that's right. This was technically about whether the mother knew that Bradley Miller, a private investigator, was hired by Mark Geragos over a year ago, and therefore, all of his investigation would be privileged.
If you think this young woman had any idea who he was hired by and the legal relationships, it's just absurd. And she said in court she just really didn't know.
But what's really going on is, all the Jacksons showing up similarly dressed, in a phalanx, staring her down. Let me tell you, Anderson, this woman sat down, according to all the reports, gave a cross, across her chest, a sign of the cross, was very animated, gestured a lot, looked right at Michael Jackson.
This is the kind of woman who might be able to stand up to Michael Jackson. She gave no ground in her testimony.
COOPER: Michael, what do you think? I mean, was a lot of this show, I mean, them all showing up in white, sort of this united front?
SMERCONISH: I think it's all show. I mean, Lisa's right, it's an evidence suppression hearing theoretically, but it's all a mental chess game. And it's team Jackson trying to go on the offensive and make her think twice. I mean, look, they got a free shot at her today. And it reminded me of what went on in those preliminary hearings for the Kobe case, where the accuser had to come in and testify with Kobe there.
BLOOM: That's right.
SMERCONISH: And they were able to shake her up in that case such that in the end, she didn't go through with it. And I've got to believe that that's what they were trying to do today.
COOPER: Thomas Mesereau made a statement, we saw a little bit. I want to show you some more about what he said about a previous allegation that had been settled out of court. Let's show this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MESEREAU: Many years ago, he did pay money rather than litigate two false allegations that he had harmed children. People who intended to earn millions of dollars from his record and music promotions did not want negative publicity from these lawsuits interfering with their profits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So why make this statement now? Why go back to that original case?
BLOOM: Well, because it's come out publicly that Jackson made not just one, but two multimillion-dollar payoffs in the early 1990s. And, you know, Anderson, I went back and looked at the 1994 settlement agreement that Jackson signed. He and his attorneys are barred from making this kind of statement publicly, saying that they were false allegations, commenting on that accuser.
I'm very surprised to hear his attorney doing that. And he went on to say there have been over 1,000 claims made against Jackson. Now, probably not all claims like molestation. But he wasn't clear about what kind of claims. Michael Jackson apparently is a guy who gets sued quite a bit.
COOPER: Michael, what do you make of this? Again, just part of the show?
SMERCONISH: I found it interesting that he said that Michael Jackson had received some bad legal advice, and that's why...
BLOOM: Yes.
SMERCONISH: ... he'd paid the money. Look, all he had to do today was walk out of the courtroom and get into his car after this evidence suppression hearing. And instead, he makes this unsolicited statement about why Jackson paid money in the past.
It was more of team Jackson going on the offensive. And Lisa's right, the whole world knows that Michael Jackson has paid money to resolve other cases. And I think he wants to explain and get ahead of the curve on that before there is a trial, if there's going to be a trial.
BLOOM: And he's also passing the buck, though, Anderson, blaming the music industry for forcing him into those settlements, blaming his prior attorney, Johnnie Cochran, for giving him bad advice? You know, Michael Jackson's always pointing to somebody else.
COOPER: All right. We're going to leave it here. Michael Smerconish, Lisa Bloom, thanks very much.
BLOOM: Thanks.
COOPER: 360 next, also tonight, an exclusive report. Kobe Bryant in his own words, for the very first time. It's a fascinating transcript. Hear what he says happened in that Eagle, Colorado, hotel room, and why he told police it wasn't the first time something like this has happened.
Also a little later tonight, Scott Peterson breaking down in tears in court. Find out why the accused killer wept.
360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It's become commonplace this election year. A presidential candidate gets up to speak, and someone in the crowd tries to get in the way. Just look at what happened today at a rally for Vice President Cheney. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just some guy in the crowd grabbed him.
It's not just the candidates who are getting heckled. Yesterday, protester Sue Niederer was removed from a rally for First Lady Laura Bush. Then look, she's about to get arrested right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to arrest you, ma'am.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
SUE NIEDERER, LOST SON IN IRAQ WAR: Go ahead, come on. Arrest me, right in front of everybody. Go ahead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She had been wearing a shirt with a picture of her son, Army Lieutenant Seth de Voren (ph), who'd been killed in Iraq. She said she only wanted to ask the first lady a question but was shouted down by the crowd chanting "Four more years." Niederer was eventually arrested outside for trespassing.
Earlier today, I talked with her about what happened.
Sue, why did you go to the Laura Bush speech and yell out at her?
NIEDERER: I went to the Laura Bush speech for one reason, and the reason was to ask a question of Laura Bush and to receive an answer from her.
COOPER: And the question was?
NIEDERER: The question was very simple. Why, if this war is justified, and we need to be over there fighting terrorism, why aren't her children, senators', legislators', congressmen's children over there spending their time and fighting for this just cause?
COOPER: Did you really expect to get an answer, though? I mean, was this more to make a point?
NIEDERER: No, this was to get an answer for her -- or from her, or to have her come and have possibly her people pull me aside and say to me, Sue, we would like to speak to you later on. Mrs. Bush would like to address you personally.
COOPER: Why is this so important to you to get this answer to this question?
NIEDERER: Because I think it's extremely unfair that there's only three (UNINTELLIGIBLE), three people fighting in Iraq, or even actually -- excuse me, in the military at this point. Why do they not send their own children over, if this is such a justified war? And we need to be over there, why aren't they allowing their own children to go over and fight for this cause?
COOPER: Well, I guess, I mean, just to play devil's advocate, there is not a draft, so it's not a question of forcing anyone to go. Your son volunteered, the others who are there have volunteered.
NIEDERER: That is correct. But what's going to happen when there is going to be a draft, which it probably will be? Are these people going to have their children be drafted and go over there? Or is it going to be the same complacent thing? They are going to get out of the draft, or they will not serve any time in a war zone, just as Mr. Bush himself has not.
COOPER: Sue, you had a T-shirt, and on it said, "President Bush killed my son." Do you really believe that?
NIEDERER: Absolutely. He is the commander in chief of this country and this nation. Without him, we would not be at war. We would not have gone anywhere into Iraq. And he -- without his permission, we don't go anywhere or do anything. So he is totally responsible for everything in this country.
COOPER: What did you get arrested for? I mean, we see that videotape where police are arresting you. What was the charge? Because you were basically just talking to reporters (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you were outside the hall.
NIEDERER: Disruptive trespassing is what they charged me with.
COOPER: And how were you treated?
NIEDERER: By the Hamilton police, very well. They were -- except for the fact that they rode me around and kept me in the parking lot for approximately 40 minutes. Once I reached the station, they were wonderful.
COOPER: You know, Sue, the, a lot of people say, you know, you have the right to ask this question, but not in the way you did, it was disrespectful. You know, Laura Bush should be able to give a speech without somebody interrupting it.
NIEDERER: If I was disrespectful, so was everybody else in there that is chanting "Four more years," "Go, Bush, go," and whatever else they were chanting. That's -- it's called freedom of speech. I had a right to ask a question and ask or do just the same as anyone else that was standing there chanting, yelling, and screaming. COOPER: Sue Niederer, we appreciate you joining us and talking about what you did and your son, Lieutenant Seth de Voren. Thanks very much, Sue.
NIEDERER: Thank you.
COOPER: The race for president, neck and neck, or not even close? Conflicting polls. Which should you believe? The guys from "CROSSFIRE" take sides.
Kobe Bryant in his own words, raw, uncensored. What he told police about sex, his accuser, and what really happened in that hotel room.
And covering a hurricane to the nth degree. What we learned, or maybe didn't, in the eye of Ivan.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Kobe Bryant's attorneys are outraged tonight, and you're about to hear why. It's a 360 exclusive. Sealed transcripts of Bryant's first police interview, done before he was even arrested and charged with raping a 19-year-old woman, were leaked to the media. But for the first time tonight, you actually hear Bryant's interview. CNN's Adaora Udoji has the exclusive details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) and two Colorado detectives. The exchange revealing salacious details of Bryant's encounter with the woman accusing him of rape was sent to the "Vail Daily News," in defiance of a court order temporarily sealing all records of the now dismissed criminal case.
At first (AUDIO GAP).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: ... wanted me to sign.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: But Michael...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... her story from the beginning was that she went into the room to get his autograph. That's why she brought the pen. She goes in bringing a pen, not a condom, not something contemplating a sexual act. And Michael, what about the fact that Kobe says he didn't finish, and yet Kobe's semen is found on her. Another lie.
SMERCONISH: It doesn't bode well for the Lower Marion public schools, because the detectives say, hey, Kobe, isn't that something you learned in seventh grade in sex ed? But Lisa, I read this account perhaps as a guy, and I just -- I see it, I understand it. He's petrified. And that's all you're going to get from this. If I were Kobe Bryant, I would be thrilled to have this come in in a civil case.
BLOOM: You know, Michael, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Michael Jackson story. Kobe also admits he put his hands around her neck. That would explain the mark on her neck. That he has big, powerful, strong hands. You can understand how she would think this is non-consensual, wouldn't you?
SMERCONISH: And he says, you can go ask Michelle -- and I'm paraphrasing -- because that's the way I always do it. I mean, does that sound like a guy who is afraid of the truth?
BLOOM: That doesn't sound like a great defense to me, Michael. That's how I always do it, with my hands around her neck.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, you were wrong about the direction of the criminal case. There will never be a civil case either, mark my words.
COOPER: All right, we'll be watching for that. We would like to get all sides.
Lisa Bloom, thanks very much. Michael Smerconish, thanks very much.
BLOOM: Thank you.
SMERCONISH: OK.
COOPER: Well, for much of the trial, Scott Peterson has sat impassive, watching, listening to the testimony without reacting. Occasionally taking notes. Yesterday, Peterson broke down and cried as the court heard details about Laci Peterson and her baby's mangled body.
CNN's Ted Rowlands reports from Redwood City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With his head turned away from the autopsy photographs, Scott Peterson broke down as a forensic pathologist detailed the condition of the remains of his unborn son. A number of jurors also wept while listening to the graphic testimony.
The pathologist, who performed autopsies on both Laci Peterson and their child's fetus, testified that because of the level of decomposition, he was unable to determine a cause of death in either case.
Prosecutors were able to get the pathologist to say that the baby was in much better condition than Laci in terms of decomposition. They said the baby was most likely protected from the elements of the San Francisco Bay by his mother's uterus, the only organ left in her body. The pathologist said that in his opinion, those elements of the Bay eventually ruptured the uterus, allowing the fetus to come out.
DEAN JOHNSON, LEGAL ANALYST: That certainly negates any idea of devil cults, abductors holding on to the baby after they've disposed of Laci's body, anything like that.
ROWLANDS: The defense contends that the opening in the uterus was the result of an assault, and that the baby was intentionally removed from Laci Peterson's body.
Peterson's attorneys focused on a piece of tape, or twine, found around the baby's neck and chest, implying the fetus was protected by some sort of wrapping. A forensic anthropologist used bone measurements to estimate the baby's age, between 33 and 38 weeks. The defense claims this helps prove that the child was alive for at least a week after Laci Peterson was reported missing, a period of time when Scott Peterson was under
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
the baby's age between 33 and 38 weeks. The defense claims this helps prove that the child was alive for at least a week after Laci Peterson was reported missing a period of time when Scott Peterson was under 24-hour surveillance by police.
Because of the graphic nature of the testimony this week, Laci Peterson's family, the Rochas, did not attend court. The prosecution is winding down. They expect another two weeks of testimony for their portion of the case, then it is on to the defense. Ted Rowlands, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: 360 next. Bush versus Kerry. Poll numbers up and down. Who's got the edge? We're going to talk politics in the "CROSSFIRE."
Also tonight the dark horse in the Emmy race, the show the critics call the best show on TV that nobody watches. Take a look at that in "The Weekender."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards didn't campaign today. The question is, did you notice? Some campaign observers say he has virtually disappeared even as his Republican counterpart Vice President Cheney takes daily shots at the Democratic ticket. That's what many seem to expect now from vice presidential candidates in the world of raw politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): This is not a question a candidate wants to hear about his running mate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Edwards? I wondered if he's still on the ticket. We haven't heard from him.
COOPER: But it's a question that seems to be coming up more and more about John Edwards. See, there's a reason why Dick Cheney is referred to as the Republican attack dog.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: A senator can be wrong for 20 years without consequence for the nation. But a president, a president always casts the deciding vote.
Because if we make the wrong choice, the danger is that we'll get hit again.
COOPER: But can his Democratic counterpart respond in kind?
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Anybody that watched the Senate campaign in 1998 when Senator Edwards campaigned against Loch Faircloth would be certain that Senator Edwards not only has the capacity to respond in kind but he can do it with a great deal of humor and he can do it with a smile on his face.
COOPER: The Kerry campaign says John Edwards is doing his bit and biting back. Whistlestop visits to 10 battleground states, a Kentucky fundraiser that added $700,000 to the Kerry campaign coffers and some well-placed barbs of his own.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every single one of those presidents created jobs until this president.
Because they can't defend this record. It's impossible. You can't defend what they've done.
COOPER: He certainly sounds tough enough. So why does it seem he's slipped out of the spotlight?
EPSTEIN: The areas where he has been going is not too insignificant. However, I think you will see a shift in the campaign in the next few weeks, where you will see Senator Edwards going into the more marquee areas, some of the bigger markets and the battleground states. And he is a great salesman. He is the golden boy of the Democrats right now in many ways. He's sunshine guy.
COOPER: With 46 days left until the election, John Edwards can either ramp up the argument or hope that softly, softly sells on the stage of raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That gets us to today's buzz. "Which vice presidential candidate's campaign style do you think is more effective? John Edwards or Dick Cheney. Log onto CNN.com/360. Cast your votes. Results at the end of the show.
We like to cover all the angles, all the sides on 360. For two very different perspectives, we turn to "CROSSFIRE's" Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Paul, is John Edwards being used effectively?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Yes. Edwards is a guy who's really good in smalltown America. They're sending him to those battleground states in small towns. That's actually where the election is going to be won. The problem is, he doesn't get the major media. I wish he did and I think they'll maybe try to find ways to get him more in front of the major media. But his highest and best use is as a small-town guy where Democrats are dying in rural America.
COOPER: Tucker, do you think he should be used a little bit more to attack though?
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Yes, that's typically what vice presidential candidates do. In fact, that's what vice presidents do, in addition to going to the funerals of foreign leaders. But it does seem to me he's probably not best suited at attacking. That's the whole point of John Edwards is he's supposedly a sunny guy, and all that.
Who knows what's really going on in the Kerry campaign, which is in a bit of disarray at the moment. So who knows what the real dynamic is. But I will say, John Edwards, as talented as he is as a campaigner, he's quite talented, it's hard to see how he moves a lot of votes in rural areas. Rural, working-class people generally don't vote Democrat. They certainly don't in the way they did 20 years ago. And they don't over issues. From moral issues, economic issues, a whole bunch of different reasons, none of which have to do with personality. So it's just hard to see no matter how great he was, that he could move those votes back.
COOPER: I want to show you some polls. I'm continually confused by these polls. Try to explain it to me, a little bit, Paul. You know, I have the Gallup Poll which gives President Bush a big lead, 13-point lead. I've got these two other polls, one from the Pew Research Center, the other Harris Interactive says it's a statistical tie.
BEGALA: Well, if you read that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) type fine print in any poll, and you don't have to because I'll tell you about it, it says this basically, the margin of error is such that 19 times out of 20, this poll will be within that 3 points, 5 points, whatever. But one time out of 20 it's not going to be. And this is one of those -- this Gallup poll -- Democrats and Republicans both that I've talked to today said that there's no chance this race is 13. It happens once in a while. It's just an abberational poll. If you take all of the published polls that are out there, the race is within the margin of error. It's a dead heat with President Bush slightly ahead. But it's nothing like a 13-point lead.
COOPER: Tucker, what do you think? Do you believe that?
CARLSON: Yes, I do. I don't think he's up 13 points. I think he's up in a real way. It's not just -- it's not a toss-up, it's not a dead heat. I think Bush is up. Here's the truth, I think, of the race. Bush's numbers track the numbers on Iraq. As people become happier with what's happening in Iraq, feel more comfortable about the war itself, Bush's numbers rise. When they feel the opposite, more discouraged about what's happening in Iraq, his numbers fall. Literally, if you put the polls next to each other, they track. And so I would be looking to what's happening in Iraq, a, and b, maybe more important, how that's being covered, if there's a perception that things are a disaster, you will see -- it's affecting Bush's numbers immediately.
BEGALA: I think Tucker's right. Hence, John Kerry, really gutsy move, go into a very conservative group, the National Guard Association, and really tearing into President Bush on Iraq, a topic that those Guardsmen were on Bush's side. I mean, they gave Bush seven standing ovations. Kerry goes right into the lion's den, gives a very tough anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war speech. Because I think that he's sensing the same thing Tucker is, that as Iraq support rises and falls, so does the president's support.
CARLSON: And yet here's the interesting part. Coming after -- Kerry did that yesterday, today is Halliburton day. So rather than move forward with this momentum, Iraq was a bad idea, maybe try and stake out a position on Iraq that makes sense, which will be helpful if you're running for president, he instead takes off an entire day, cuts an ad and gives a speech attacking Halliburton. I bet you a million bucks that there aren't more than 20,000 people in this country who even understand what Halliburton is or how it is relevant to Iraq. It's insane, and it's not effective politically. It's a measure of how in disarray his campaign is.
COOPER: All right. Thank you. Paul Begala, thanks very much. Tucker Carlson as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Coming up next on 360. Sometimes it's better to just stay indoors. The lessons learned covering Hurricane Ivan -- yikes, was that me? -- to the Nth degree when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Sometimes it's better to just stay indoors. The lessons learned covering Hurricane Ivan -- yikes, was that me -- to the "Nth Degree" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well this weekend, a rare chance for humble Hollywood to pat itself on the back. I hope you can the sense of sarcasm in my voice. An opportunity for the best in television to tell us that they're the best in television. The 56th Annual Emmy Awards are this Sunday night. And amid the mix-up of regulars for the awards, is one show that many of you may not be familiar with. I'm actually not too familiar with it.
CNN's Sibila Vargas looks at this year's potential's dark horse in the "Weekender." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First, there were the Bunkers.
CARROLL O'CONNER, ACTOR: What's the matter, you sorehead?
VARGAS: Then there were the Bundy's.
AMANDA BEARCE, ACTRESS: I know CPR!
VARGAS: Now, meet the Bluths.
JASON BATEMAN, ACTOR: I wonder how I can talk you out of ever making that face again?
VARGAS: Fox's freshman sitcom "Arrested Development" puts the D in dysfunctional family. Eve got a jail bird father.
JEFFREY TAMBOR, ACTOR: I'm having the time of my life!
VARGAS: A self absorbed sister. An overbearing mother.
JESSICA WALTER, ACTRESS: It's his glasses, they make him look like a lizard.
VARGAS: And Jason Bateman, who plays the family's only beacon of sanity.
BATEMAN: They are going to keep dad in prison at least until this all gets sorted all. Also, the attorney said that they're going to have to put a halt in the companies expense account. Interesting, I would have expected that after they were keeping dad in jail.
VARGAS: Problem is, nobody's watching. In it's first season, the sitcom ranked 116th among primetime network shows.
CYNTHIA LITTLETON, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: It's not the kind of a show where you have a punchline, and there's a laugh track to reinforce it and you move on to the next scene. It's very much inspired by a lot of the techniques and the story telling style of reality television. Is it off-putting to the average viewer? Maybe.
VARGAS: But its innovative style and humor have made it a gem with critics. And now it's up for seven Emmys, including one for comedy series.
BATEMAN: The fact that we get a nomination perhaps means we'll be around a little bit longer and we continue living the dream.
VARGAS: Fox is expressing confidence in the show going into its second season. It will follow the Simpsons on Sundays with hope that all the buzz attracts more eyeballs. Sibila Vargas, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I actually have seen it. It's funny.
360 next, the lesson I learned, or maybe some lessons I didn't while covering Hurricane Ivan. We're going to take that to "The Nth Degree."
First, today's Buzz. "Which vice presidential candidate's campaign style is more effective?" Not actually the one you like, the one you think is more effective. "John Edwards or Dick Cheney?" Log on to CNN.com/360 cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for the "Buzz." Earlier we asked you, which vice presidential candidate's campaign style is more effective?" 87 percent of you said Edwards. 13 percent Cheney. Not a scientific poll, certainly, but it is your "Buzz."
Tonight, risk taking to "The Nth Degree." You know that phrase throwing caution to the winds. Well, the phrase suddenly makes a whole lot more sense to me, because that's exactly what my CNN and other TV colleague's and I did for about 24 hours, throwing caution to the winds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I've got some video -- oh, man!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There we were, the lot of us, ignoring our own very good advice to everyone else to flee or take shelter. Talk about not having sense enough to come in out of the rain.
See, trying to do the best live TV you can, and genuinely inform people about storm conditions, sometimes involves undertaking things that are, well, let's not say stupid, let's just say, the opposite of smart.
But I did learn a lesson, up against a great wind, you might as well be candy wrappers. Even weeds are better equipped than we are to deal with hurricanes, they have roots, whereas we, on the other hand are just very lightly set down on the crust of the Earth, flat-footed and teetering, and easy to blow away. It's a miracle we mostly aren't.
Standing out in a hurricane is a bad idea, but good for the humility. It makes you wonder why human beings spend so much time strutting their stuff the planet Earth as if we're such substantial creatures. Tell you what, we're not.
That's 360 for this week, thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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