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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Coverage of Upcoming Presidential Debate
Aired October 13, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Tempe, Arizona. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The stakes are high, the candidates set. Just two hours to go until the final debate.
360 starts now.
Tonight, the third and final presidential debate, Bush versus Kerry, your last chance to judge both men side by side.
How each candidate is prepping for tonight's big showdown, the strategies, the arguments, and the all-important facial reactions.
Appealing to Hispanic voters. The president sends his nephew on the campaign trail. Tonight we go 360 with George P. Bush.
Young voters registering in big numbers. But who do they really want in the White House? We go 360 with John Kerry's daughter Vanessa.
Angry words and tough accusation, the candidates punching and counterpunching. Tonight, Paul Begala and Ralph Reed step into the "CROSSFIRE."
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
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KING: ... final showdown with two goals, recapture lost momentum and paint his opponent as a big-spending liberal whose promises add up to higher taxes.
MATTHEW DOWD, BUSH-CHENEY '04: Obviously on one hand, somebody that thinks big government and high taxes is the way to go, and the president who thinks a smaller government with people having more control and lower taxes is the way to go.
KING: Mr. Bush predicts it will be fun, and says his spirits are high. But he will enter the hall under pressure as great as any incumbent has faced since televised debates began 44 years ago. DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: I can't remember a single series in which an incumbent president has lost three in a row. I think it is extremely important that president come out tonight with a win at no worse than a tie.
KING: Senator Kerry enjoys an edge on many domestic issues. But the Bush camp sees the debate stage as an opportunity to force a second look and predicts team Kerry will regret all its talk of a debate sweep.
DOWD: The Kerry campaign sometimes has a tendency to dance on the 50-yard line.
KING: On the economy, Mr. Bush will say job growth is on the upswing and that a Kerry presidency would stifle progress with higher taxes. On health care, Mr. Bush says he would give individuals and businesses tax and other incentives to expand coverage, while Senator Kerry would expand government programs and power.
And on taxes, Mr. Bush will make the case his tax cuts helped end a recession, and that the Democrats' promise to raise taxes only on the wealthy is at odds with a 20-year Senate voting record that includes 98 votes for higher taxes.
GERGEN: The philosophical divide in this campaign has been as about as sharply defined as any campaign we have had since 1980, when Ronald Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, the Bush campaign believes its candidate is much better out on the stump than he is in the debate hall, so they will be happy tonight just to have the debate series over. But they also know, Anderson, the polls have narrowed. Senator Kerry is beginning to pull ahead in some of those Gore states that had been hotly contested. They know the president very much needs to turn in a strong showing tonight, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, John King, thanks for that.
Now, John Kerry is like every other Red Sox fan and believes in omens. And staying in New Mexico last night to watch his team lose to the Yankees can be a good sign.
We'll leave the Curse of the Bambino to the sports journalists and let CNN's Candy Crowley handle the details from the Kerry campaign.
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CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And so they meet again, the president and the senator, who has already declared himself the winner of the first two debates.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I feel great, fantastic. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You going to do better than the Red Sox?
KERRY: I feel fantastic.
CROWLEY: And why shouldn't he? Since the first debate, Kerry has improved his standing in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) categories that matter, strong and decisive leader, gaining but still trailing the president. Honest and trustworthy, the two men in a dead heat. Even better than that, Kerry pollsters say their numbers show his debate performances have made the most positive impressions on swing voters and undecideds.
Yes, indeed, they are feeling very good at Camp Kerry.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: George Bush asked a very important question in the last debate. Be interesting to see if he asks it again tonight. And you may remember it. It didn't get a lot of attention, but it was a very important question. He said, My time up yet?
CROWLEY: A more tempered approach from Kerry adviser Mike McCurry, who says Kerry is not at all overconfident. He's even got what McCurry calls the lucky tie thing going. He'll be wearing the same one he did in the first two debates, the color described by McCurry as powerful red.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: But more powerful even than a lucky tie, the Kerry campaign believes they have the physics of motion in their favor. They note, said one aide, the president has to turn things around. The senator merely has to keep things going, Anderson.
COOPER: I got to get me some of those power ties. I'm wearing, like, weakling black here. All right, Candy Crowley, thanks for that.
President Bush and Senator Kerry haven't said a word yet tonight. But to give us a better idea of what they will be saying and what they should be saying are CNN "CROSSFIRE" co-host Paul Begala and Bush campaign adviser Ralph Reed.
Thanks very much for being with us.
RALPH REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.
COOPER: Ralph, let's start off with you. Does the Bush camp have to do something differently tonight? Does the president have to do something different in this debate?
REED: Well, I think the pressure tonight is on John Kerry. I think if you...
COOPER: How so?
REED: Well, if you look at the polling, he's behind by 4 in the ABC News track, he's behind by 3 in the "Washington Post" track, he's down by 3 in the CBS News track. And you look at states that Gore carried four years ago, they're within the margin of error today. Or we're ahead, like Wisconsin, like West -- like Iowa, like...
COOPER: Were you pleased with the president's past debate performances (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I'll tell you why. The Kerry people are focused on polls asking, Who do you think won the debate? That's a stylistic determination based on who you think is the better talker. But when they are asked, Who did you agree with more, who did you like more, who did you believe more? George W. Bush is winning all of those hand down.
And people want a leader that they trust and agree with. And John Kerry doesn't share the values of the mainstream of America, nor does he have the stands on the issues, and that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Paul, is Ralph looking at the right polls?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, here's the problem. The president just six weeks ago was 9 points ahead of John Kerry, as Ralph (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Not when you average them out. It was five.
BEGALA: ... question, on this question -- on this question -- Let me finish my point. On the question of who's more honest and trustworthy, today the president trails by 2. So when you go from up 9 on trustworthy to minus 2, it makes it harder to launch the kinds of attacks that the president needs to and probably wants to launch tonight, because his credibility has been really damaged in the last six weeks (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: So you're saying the president has to attack tonight. What does John Kerry have to do?
BEGALA: Well, the problem with his attack is, he's lost his own credibility. I think what Kerry needs to do -- there are two different domestic agendas here, supposed to be a domestic debate. There's two different domestic agendas. Kerry's is economic. It's jobs, it's health care, it's outsourcing.
Bush's is social. He wants to talk about abortion and gays and divisive social issues that he hopes will rev up his base. So which domestic agenda we debate tonight may decide who wins the debate.
COOPER: Ralph, go ahead.
BEGALA: Well, I just think that is completely wrong. I mean, listen, what we want to talk about tonight is the fact that John Kerry has the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate over the last 20 years.
COOPER: Wait a minute, where did you get that? Where do you get that?
REED: Americans for Democratic Action.
COOPER: Uh-huh, OK, because the National Journal thing that the president keeps referring to, I mean, that's a kind of a distortion, because, I mean, the National Journal poll is only one year.
REED: Well, that's for one session. But the ADA rating, which is the gold standard for rating members of Congress as to whether they're liberal or conservative, it's sort of the liberal analog to the American Conservative Union, says that by a 2-point margin, John Kerry over the last 20 years has compiled the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate, which is hard to do when you're in the same chamber with Ted Kennedy.
But he's pulled it off. Now, how has he pulled it off? He's voted for higher taxes 350 times. He's voted for...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... I thought it was 98, it was 98...
(CROSSTALK)
REED: ... no, 350 times for higher taxes, 98 times he voted for tax increases.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: ... just, just voting for, for, like tax reductions that aren't as big as the Republican tax reductions.
REED: Exactly.
COOPER: OK.
REED: He's voted, for example, eight times to increase taxes on Social Security benefits. That's out of the mainstream. That's not where the American people are.
COOPER: Paul, let me ask you, is John, is, is John Kerry the most liberal senator?
BEGALA: No, that's silly. And here's the problem. Ralph's message actually might work if there were an open seat election, the way it was in 2000. We had no incumbent. The problem is, we do have an incumbent, and he has a four-year record, and it's that record that's on trial.
Now, he promised us he'd create 6 million new jobs. He's 7 million jobs short of that. He promised us he'd balance the budget, he's about $4 million short of that. I mean...
COOPER: Well, why doesn't John Kerry go...
BEGALA: ... he's got a record he's got to defend...
COOPER: But John Kerry doesn't... BEGALA: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) president.
COOPER: ... but John Kerry doesn't answer this liberal charge at all. I mean, and the president has said over and over in the last several weeks he's the most liberal senator. Why doesn't John Kerry? I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), is it true, so that John Kerry can't say anything about it because it's simply true?
BEGALA: The problem of being accused of a liberal is two things, I think. Voters think you'll spend their money and you won't fight for their country. Well, John Kerry helped to balance the budget that George Bush put into deficit, so I don't think we have to worry about him on spending the way we do with Bush.
And as far as fighting for our country, I mean, George W. Bush was AWOL from the National Guard, John Kerry was fighting in Vietnam. I don't think we have to worry about Kerry being strong on (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: But 48 percent of voters think Kerry actually will raise taxes. I mean, are they just wrong, or (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) raise taxes on overpaid political consultants to talk show hosts, yes.
REED: Well, not...
(CROSSTALK)
REED: He's going to raise taxes on 900,000 small businesses...
BEGALA: This is actually factually false.
REED: ... that create 85 percent of the jobs. It isn't just us. It is somebody who owns a laundromat, it's somebody who started a restaurant last year, it's...
BEGALA: If you make more than $200,000 a year...
REED: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) creating jobs.
BEGALA: ... if you make more than 200 grand a year...
COOPER: Paul, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: ... your taxes are going to go up.
REED: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: Less than 200 grand a year, your taxes are going to go down.
REED: Well, let me just, let me just, I let you talk. Just let me talk. The reason why that is a salacious and flawed argument is because, if you are a small business in America and you're a subchapter-S or you're an LLC or you're a limited liability partnership, you file your tax return for your business on your personal return. So any business in America that grosses $200,000 or more is going to get hit with a gut punch by John Kerry.
BEGALA: You know what, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Why, why when you're trying to create jobs would you punch small business owners who create...
COOPER: All right, I'm going to let Paul...
REED: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: ... respond, and then we got to wrap it up.
BEGALA: What's been instructive here is that we haven't heard one word about the president's record from Ralph, who's the best in the business, because Ralph, even Ralph, who really is a genius, can't defend this record. And that's the record that is on trial here. Has the president done a good job of creating jobs? No. Balancing the budget, no. Protecting the environment, no. Expanding health care, no. And that's what the debate's going to be about tonight.
REED: Two million new jobs in the strongest economy in four years. And I can defend it...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: ... and he'll defend it tonight.
BEGALA: Great, great, if you want to keep things going Bush's way, you need to vote for Ralph's candidate. If you want a change, you got to vote for Kerry.
COOPER: Ralph Reed, Paul Begala, thanks very much.
REED: You bet.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
BEGALA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: 360 next, a dead heat in the last presidential debate. What a night it is going to be. With an election this close, it is not just what you say, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as we all know by now, how you look. When cutaway shots can make all the difference, that is raw politics ahead.
Also tonight, the next generation, George P. Bush and Vanessa Kerry. We are bringing you all the angles live from Arizona State University, a crowd very excited for what will happen here tonight.
COOPER: First, let's take a look, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well, no doubt the candidates are well rehearsed, armed with their positions, their attack lines, and their zingers. Advisers prepare them to stay on message, of course, focused. But the candidates themselves have to remember they're in focus constantly, especially when it comes to those reaction shots. The camera never lies. Like it or not, that is raw politics. Take a look.
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COOPER (voice-over): Sure, what the candidates say during the debates is important.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our plan is working.
KERRY: I think my plan is better.
COOPER: But what people really notice is how they look when they speak.
KERRY: Right into the camera. Yes.
COOPER: And when they don't.
Of course, candidates know they're being videotaped during the 90-minute debate. But what they don't know is which one of the 10 cameras is on, and what ends up on air. That's why candidates should always beware of what TV producers call cutaways, wide shots, over- the-shoulder shots, two-shots, and, of course, the split screens.
In a 32-page memorandum, the two camps tried to forbid these reaction shots to prevent their candidates from being caught off guard. But the TV networks ignored the ban during the first two debates, leading some moments like this.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Body language says a great deal. Candidates worry about it, because they often find it harder to control than the words they actually use in the debates.
COOPER: Like when Al Gore kept sighing during the 2000 debate, or when the first George Bush peeked at his watch in 1992. And in 1988, Dan Quayle became the proverbial deer caught in the headlights.
SCHNEIDER: Every candidate has learned the lesson, you're always on camera during a debate. You're never off camera. Don't show any gesture, don't make any face, don't scowl, don't sigh, because people, the camera is on you all the time, and people are watching you every second.
COOPER: Watching your language, even when you're silent, that is raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The camera is always on. Words to live by.
Let's talk about strategy, what each candidate needs to do in the debate to score points with voters.
Tonight, joining me from Watertown, Massachusetts, is Alan Schroeder, an associate professor at Northeastern University School of Journalism.
Professor, thanks very much for being with us. You're also the author of the book "Presidential Debates: Forty Years of High-Risk TV." Welcome.
PROF. ALAN SCHROEDER, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
COOPER: What, let's talk about Bush and Kerry. What does Bush need to do tonight that he hasn't done in the last two debates?
SCHROEDER: Well, I think that for one thing, Bush stylistically needs to calm down a little bit. Bush has become the Mount St. Helens of presidential debaters. There's always a little steam coming off, and it looks like he might blow his stack.
So what I'd like to see him do is just calmly present his case. He's got a decent case to make. But stylistically, he's got some obstacles to overcome here.
COOPER: And what about those reaction shots for the president? I mean, I, I, someone must have shown him tapes after the first debate. Does he need to continue to sort of watch his reaction?
SCHROEDER: Yes, he does. And you actually saw that in the second debate. You saw how he was trying to control those facial reactions and the smirk, particularly, and the things that he was criticized for. And, of course, this is the same format tonight, as was the case in the first debate in Miami. So it is a perilous format for Bush.
COOPER: Yes, let's talk about John Kerry now, what he needs to do. And does this podium format favor him in some way?
SCHROEDER: I think it does in some way. But, you know, it's interesting about Kerry, because although he's won the first two debates, he hasn't exactly captured the hearts of the country, I would say. And if he's ever going to turn on the charm, this might be the time to do it.
COOPER: Does he need to do something differently in terms of -- I mean, being more aggressive? I mean, there are some people I've been reading today who are saying he sort of needs to maybe rein it in a little bit.
SCHROEDER: Well, it is so much in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people thought that Bush's level of aggression was appropriate. Others found it too much. And the same probably with John Kerry. Kerry is a more placid debater. He doesn't have that sort of a high- voltage aspect to him that Bush does.
COOPER: You know, a lot of people criticize these debates. Some people said they're not even really debates. Yet others now are saying, you know, these have been pretty exciting. I mean, a lot has changed (UNINTELLIGIBLE) given these two debates. How do you judge them, you know, sort of from the historical standpoint?
SCHROEDER: I think they're as exciting as they can be within the confines of this format. And that's true every debate cycle. You know, the candidates filled in so many protective layers for themselves. But in the final analysis, what's going to happen on live television happens, and there is not much they can do to control it. So this series is about on a par with some of the ones in the past.
COOPER: All right. We'll be watching tonight. Professor Alan Schroeder, appreciate you joining us. Thanks very much.
SCHROEDER: Thank you.
COOPER: 360 next, Bush and Kerry under pressure. Who has what it takes to pull out -- oh, look, the guy's like, Oh, look, I'm on TV. Who has what it takes to pull off a win in the last presidential debate? Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff join us live. Find out what the media will be watching for along with the voters.
Plus, George P. Bush and Vanessa Kerry. They are joining us live as well.
And you, the young voters, go 360 with "CROSSFIRE." The audience is going to ask some tough questions.
First, this 360 challenge.
Since 1960, how many presidential elections have had no debates? Two, three, five, or candidates have debated every election? The answer when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Earlier, we asked, Since 1960, how many presidential elections have not had debates? The answer, three. The candidates didn't debate in 1964, 1968, or 1972.
Welcome back. We are live on the campus of ASU, where students are very excited about tonight's debate in an hour and 37 minutes away.
Tonight's debate is a lot like final "Jeopardy." Everything may be riding on just one answer. And with the race a virtual tie, the winner could claim victory to a much bigger prize, of course, in November.
Here to talk about tonight's debate is my CNN colleagues Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff.
Good to see both of you.
Wolf, let's start with you. Since you're down here in the mosh pit wearing your Britney Spears microphone, what are you looking for tonight? WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. We're looking for one mistake that either of these candidates might make that could make the difference. This is a really, really close race. I'll especially be interested to see if Bush goes after his conservative base, or if he's going to go after that undecided swing vote, which may not like some of the so-called red meat that his conservative base wants.
It's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tough road, a delicate line for him to him walk. We'll see which audience he's more interested in capturing, energizing his conservative base, or trying to reach out to the moderate middle and bring some of those voters over to his side.
COOPER: Judy, I mean, there is so much pressure on tonight's debate. What are you going to be watching for?
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm going to be looking to see how President Bush defends his record on domestic issues, on the economy. As we know, he is vulnerable on some of these issues, the Democrats say, health care, education, the environment. I want to see how he's going to defend himself.
And with John Kerry, I'm interested in seeing how he defends against charges that his solutions are all going to cost a lot more in tax dollars, and that they are going to involve a larger government bureaucracy.
But, Anderson, aside from all that, I'm going to be looking to see how these two men come across personally to us, the viewer, on television.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, Wolf, personality has become so important in this race. I mean, who people like does make a difference in terms of who they vote for.
BLITZER: And it is so tough for these guys. Yet you either come out swinging and potentially alienate some people and say, he's mean and nasty, he's not a nice guy, or, you sort of become a nice guy, and you don't really slug it out with your opponent. So it's a tough challenge, which way you're going to go. And I think a lot of viewers are going to have to make up their own minds, you know, what is the proper balance between tough and on the one hand and nice on the other hand?
COOPER: Judy, have you seen the styles of these two debaters change over the course of these debates?
WOODRUFF: No question, Anderson. In the first debate, President Bush was almost subdued. You know, you saw a lot of the smirks and the rolling of the eyes. In the second debate, he was much feistier, even angrier, if you will. I think John Kerry, we've seen a little more consistency. He's been, you know, sort of, Here are the facts, here is my belief.
Tonight, you're right, what Wolf said is exactly right. They've got to walk this fine line. They both need to be presidential. But they need to be passionate, but not too passionate. They can't be so angry or so determined that they come across as alienating people. So it's a tall order for both of them.
COOPER: A lot of note taking, I think we'll see a lot. All that sage nodding and note taking.
Judy Woodruff, thanks very much. An hour and 35 minutes to this debate. Wolf Blitzer, thanks very much for braving the mosh pit.
Today's buzz is this. Which do you think will decide the presidential election, domestic issues, foreign policy, or neither? Log onto CNN.com/360, cast your vote. More than 135,000 of you have already voted. We're going to have results at the end of the program tonight. Get in on it.
360 next, crashing the party. We're going to talk with the other big-name candidate who won't be on stage tonight, Ralph Nader. That is ahead.
Also tonight, they've been waiting, and not so quietly. Crowd gets to asks some questions about the election. We'll give them that chance just ahead. Covering all the angles, live from Arizona State University.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Huge crowd here at ASU awaiting this debate. A lot of excited students. Welcome back to a special edition of 360 from the campus of Arizona State University here in Tempe, where later this evening President George W. Bush and Senator John F. Kerry will face one another for the last of their three scheduled debates before the election on the second of November, only 20 days away now.
This promises to be a very important night. The rules, of course, for tonight's debate call for only two podiums on the stage. My next guest probably wishes there were three. Ralph Nader has only 1 percent of the vote in the latest polls. But considering what happened in the 2000 election, and given this year's tight race, that 1 percent may add up big.
Ralph Nader joins me now.
Ralph, thank you for being with us.
RALPH NADER, INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The time had me at 5 percent, but that's OK, we'll give you that one.
COOPER: Different polls, different polls with different numbers.
NADER: Right.
COOPER: You know, we, I've talked to you at other debates. You've said you believe you should be allowed to debate. You were never asked. Why do you think you still should be in this process?
NADER: For one thing, Zogby poll recently had 57 percent of the American people wanted me on the debate. And even higher polls in 2000. I think people want more voices and choices. And I've got a record of 40 years of fighting for the American people. I've got something to say. And I know what some of the better futures are for better life in our country.
COOPER: One of the, one of your big platforms, I mean, is that corporations have sort of taken over the political process. You talk about that a lot.
NADER: Yes.
COOPER: How do you see that playing out tonight in the debates so far?
NADER: Well, look at what isn't debated. Who's for the war? Bush, Kerry. Where's the debate? Who's for cutting back the bloated, wasteful military budget that many generals and admirals retired have been criticizing?
COOPER: You're saying that, you're saying there's no difference between these two men?
NADER: Not on the military budget. Not on the PATRIOT Act. They're both for the PATRIOT Act. Now, they both are not talking about massive billions of dollars in corporate subsidies that the business press reporting on. They're not talking about the need for law and order and cracking down on corporate crime. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Well, both, both candidates would say, there is a difference. I mean, on the PATRIOT Act, John Kerry supports different aspects than, than, than George Bush, he's very critical of some of...
NADER: He's critical of John Ashcroft, but he voted for the PATRIOT Act that gave John Ashcroft the tools. Kerry has a good opportunity. If he starts going after the drug companies, oil and HMOs as the "New York Times" indicated he might, going populous, standing up for the people for a change, he could score points about that corporation in the White House disguised as a human being called George W. Bush.
COOPER: I'm interested what you think as you're watching debates. I mean, I think, the first debate you were watching are the student union and you know, where do you in general watch these debates and what goes through your mind as you see the two men face to face?
NADER: I sort of feel sorry for both of them, because they're expected to audition as if they're preparing for major roles in the detective movie instead of looking at their record. I mean, that's the key thing is to look at their record. Not...
COOPER: So, you think it's all smoke and mirrors debating tactic.
NADER: It is all style. Presidential are they passionate? Why has Bush continually stood for corporations again and again and again against workers, consumers, against people who are subject to pollution.
COOPER: If you look at polls, voters care about personality, they care about who they like and is it somebody I would want to go hang out with. That seems to matter to voters. Is that wrong?
NADER: We all care about candy too, and dessert, but sometimes we like substance in our diet. And that's what I think we have to demand of the politicians. What is their record, not their rhetoric?
COOPER: Do you think the American public is too prone to eating sweets and candy? I mean, they just want -- that's what they're focused on?
NADER: No. That's what their fed on. The horse race and the tactics. I mean, I'm trying to inject the meat, the substance and higher tone in the presidential campaign. I've written this book "The Good Fight." Got another book called "Civic Arousal" directed toward young people.
COOPER: But is there a point where you could say, look, there say short amount of time before this election. In your opinion, I've fought the good fight. I made my points, I've put a third voice in this race. Any chance you could pull out before the race?
NADER: No. It is clear you haven't looked at our Web site votenader.org.
COOPER: I've ask you this question every time.
NADER: This is a major effort to reform the political system and break up the two parties who are controlling it. It is like a two party electoral dictatorship excluding all competition. And it is all about money. It is all about money. It is not about the merits. It is not about the necessities of the American people. Not about these young people that are worried about the draft, who are worried about high tuition hikes, worried about failed war on drugs, their drugs being outsourced and not having health insurance when they graduate. Those are the issues.
COOPER: We'll see if they're debated tonight. Ralph Nader, thank you for joining us.
Now let's turn to Paula Zahn when we continue what's coming up on prime-time politics -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson. I hope you can hear me.
What we're going to do tonight is try to give the audience a preview of what we can expect of both the candidates. While we don't know exactly what either one of them has choreographed, we know you can expect the president to utter the phrase Massachusetts liberal, in as many words, many times during this debate. The president, we are told, is going to try to cast this as the great ideological divide between him and John Kerry. And John Kerry on the other hand is coming into this knowing that the majority of the polls show that he is dominant on the range of domestic issues and probably be addressing tonight. But the challenge for him is to try to further show this audience watching tonight, if they're not watching baseball, of course, what his core is.
The president, we know, has lost a lot of support among women over the last couple of weeks, particularly coming out of debate No. 2. Some women found him aggressive. It will be interesting to see, because of where he stands in the podium tonight, if he will have been trained to tone that down at all. And we'll see how disciplined John Kerry's answers are tonight lengthwise.
COOPER: All right, Paula, we'll be watching starting at 8:00 with you. Thanks very much.
360 next, the next generation goes head to head. Vanessa Kerry joins me live. And George P. Bush right here.
Also tonight, this very patient audience gets to ask the tough questions. Covering all the angles live from Arizona State University. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And the crowd keeps getting bigger and bigger here. We're back live at Arizona State University here in Tempe, Arizona. Crowds, known as good students and good parties, they're also known as the much coveted youth vote. To reach these voters, President Bush and Senator Kerry are turning some young volunteers who happen to look a lot like them.
In moment you'll meet George Prescott Bush, the president's nephew. Up first, Vanessa Kerry, Senator John Kerry's daughter. She joins me here live. Vanessa, good to see you again.
VANESSA KERRY, JOHN KERRY'S DAUGHTER: Good to see you, too.
COOPER: Is the John Kerry we're going to see tonight a different John Kerry? Is he going to be the same strategies he's used in the last two debates?
V. KERRY: I don't think there has been any strategy. What I've been seeing is my father being my father, just talk about the truth, his ideas for the country. I think what it is, this is the first time this country has gotten to see my father unfiltered.
COOPER: But a lot of people who have been following your father's campaign very closely say it was a more focused John Kerry than they had seen before. You say no?
V. KERRY: No. I think -- I've watched my dad for the last year and a half talk about his ideas for this country, the ways we can make it better, the fact we can have health care for all Americans -- cover all children immediately. The fact that we can fully fund education in this country, make college education more affordable. That we can fight a more effective war on terror, that we can be better and have a plan in Iraq and do better by our troops who are serving there.
He's been talking about that. I don't think that's any different.
COOPER: But the Republicans have been responding, though, is how is he going to pay for all this?
V. KERRY: He's been very honest about that. You can tell him.
Look, if we roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy, those making over $200,000, we can fully fund education and fully fund my father's health care plan.
COOPER: You say the whole thing funded by rolling back that.
V. KERRY: That's the beginning. You also keep jobs from going overseas, you close the tax loopholes that prevent corporations from setting up headquarters and keeping their profits overseas. You can do a number of things.
You need to have a commitment to fiscal responsibility so that we're not growing our deficit. My generation is going to be paying for that.
COOPER: You're a medical student at Harvard. You're taking time off to help out your dad's campaign. What about tort reform? There has been a lot of criticism by the Republicans that health care -- their system is hurting because of all of these lawsuits.
V. KERRY: First of all, lawsuits are costing less than 1 percent of all health care dollars as it is now. There are much bigger problems in health care now. They say it is more than 1 percent because of the other sort of reactive ways the doctors...
COOPER: They say that 1 percent is more than just that 1 percent, because of the other sort of, reactive ways the doctors...
V. KERRY: It is true. We need to adjust malpractice. My father has a plan to adjust malpractice. He believes we need an independent third body to prevent those cases that do not deserve to go to court from going to court, so that the system doesn't get flooded. And we also have to have a cap on punitive damages.
That there are some cases that do deserve to go forward. And we need to be honest. And that's what the legal system is for and the jury and the court and all that. He has a plan for dealing with malpractice, go to www.johnkerry.com. It is all there.
COOPER: A lot of what you've been doing is talking to young people. Obviously, 72, and 92, were the big years for youth voter turnout.
V. KERRY: Do you get an incredible sense there will be a lot of young voter turnout?
I get an incredible sense there's going to be a lot a young people.
COOPER: OK, play to the crowd.
V. KERRY: No I do. I spent a lot of time traveling the country. I've had events put together in less than 17 hours where over 500 students show up. They're engaged. They know their future is on the line. They know it's beyond just the next four years.
COOPER: But it's tough -- I mean, no really knows how to get young voters. Because there's not one issue that the young voters...
V. KERRY: You don't need to get young voters. You just need to tell them the truth. You need to tell them what's at stake. And you need to speak honestly. And you need to always promise that your going to fight for them. That's what it is about. It is not about pandering, it's about being willing to fight for something you believe in. And that's what my fathers always been about. And that's exactly what he's going to do if he gets elected president of the United States.
COOPER: A lot of rumors on the Internet about what -- the president was wearing something on his back during that podium debate. You to think he was?
V. KERRY: Didn't help him if he was.
COOPER: All right. You dodged the question, but I'll let you go with that. Vanessa Kerry, always good to see you. Thanks very much.
V. KERRY: Thanks.
COOPER: Well, we're going to talk to George P. Bush in just a couple of moments, running a little bit late. Coming up next on "360."
Also this wild and crazy crowd gets its turn. The audience ask the tough questions when we come back. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Which of the following was not a moderator in a presidential debate, Bernard Shaw, Barbara Walters, Walter Cronkite, or Bill Moyers? The answer when we come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Earlier we asked, Which of the following was not a moderator in a presidential debate? The answer Walter Cronkite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Well, unlike the last debate, the candidates won't be taking any questions from the crowd tonight. We have quite a crowd here. We will. We want to field some questions to CNN's "CROSSFIRE" co-host, Paul Begala, and senior Bush campaign adviser, Tucker Eskew.
Gentleman, I appreciate both of you joining us.
Let me start off with you, clearly your a Bush supporter here.
Your name and your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I traveled all the way down from Salt Lake. My name is Tom. My question is for Paul. John Kerry talks about the changes he wants to make, but he's been in the United States Senate for 20 years. Why is it that every Kerry supporter I talk to can't point to one original idea that he's been able to push through the United States Senate?
Why give him four years -- why give him four years -- why give him the four years in the White House just to waste away, when he's wasted 20 years in the United States Senate.
BEGALA: Great question, Tom. Let me give you one you asked for one. There are things called Kerry agreements, that presidents for 20 years have had to use to try to crack down on terrorist financing. Now John Kerry wrote that into the law in 1988, 18-years-ago -- 16- years-ago, my math is bad. Sixteen years ago, he wrote these agreements to crack down on terrorist financing. Now, that was 88. Back. in 1988 George W. Bush was try trying to decide whether to draft Sammy Sosa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Answer the question. Don't get nasty.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knock it off.
BEGALA: Here's one good example of what Kerry has done in the Senate.
COOPER: All right. Another question. Over here. You're a Kerry supporter. Your name and question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Kendra (ph). I'm -- my question is for Mr. Eskew. I'm wondering where the president is so insistent on putting down Senators Kerry and Edwards rather than focusing on his own policies and positive aspects if he has any.
TUCKER ESKEW, SENIOR BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I'll take that. I'll take that. I've worked for the president at the White House. I know he's got a record. He talks about his record. But some people don't have a record. And some people don't have a vision. So sure the president talks about John Kerry's failure to get anything done. What Paul cited, I'm sorry. In South Carolina where I come from, that's small potatoes. That doesn't amount to anything. President Bush, let me tell you, passed the most sweeping education reform bill in 30 years. Saw to it that we took down the Taliban when many people thought that war was a mistake. BEGALA: Who? Who thought it was a mistake? Who thought it was a mistake.
ESKEW: Beyond that the president passed sweeping tax reform, got middle class tax cuts, turned the economy around, handed to him a recession, got 2 million jobs in the last year. And you cannot counter that with a record of achievement on John Kerry's
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Many people thought the war in Afghanistan...
ESKEW: ... president record and his.
BEGALA: Tucker, you said, many people thought the war in Afghanistan was a mistake, name two.
ESKEW: Well, Al Gore...
BEGALA: Al Gore, strongly supported it. He said Bush is my commander in chief.
(CROSSTALK)
ESKEW: liberal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) thought it was a bad idea.
BEGALA: You can't name one.
ESKEW: The other ones said, oh, anyone would have done that. But you know, President Bush is a unique visionary leader. Even if people disagree with him know where he stands and you can't claim that about John Kerry.
COOPER: I've got to write that phrase down. Did you say the Amen Corner of the liberal punditocracy.
ESKEW: Yes.
COOPER: I've never heard that before. I've got to write that down.
What's your question and name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Erica (ph). And my question is for the both of you. With three weeks left before the election, do you still think the debate will sway voters?
COOPER: Paul.
BEGALA: Yes. There is still a lot of voters who are moving back and forth. I mean, look just a few weeks going to president had a serious lead against, John Kerry. Now he's tied or kind of trailing. Yes, I think, in particularly because there is the first time they've actually had to talk about domestic issues.
So, if you think we are doing a good job of creating jobs and balancing the budget, and expanding health care, you should vote for Bush. If you want a direction, and new idea's to create more jobs and provide more health care you should vote for Kerry.
ESKEW: OK, we're going to make a difference in this debate. But I think the best debate besides Kerry v. Bush is Kerry vs. Kerry. And if we get back to that one, I think, we'll have a lot of fun.
BEGALA: I'm going to tell you this is a land speed to turn any question into an attack on John Kerry. The problem is John Kerry doesn't have the four year record that President Bush has, and that's why Tucker can't defend it.
COOPER: All right. We've got a couple more question you guys can avoid answering. Hold on.
Your question and your name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Dukes from Trenton, Ohio. I traveled to ask this question, Tucker. One month prior to September 11, President Bush was given a historic memo entitled Osama bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States.
Why did President Bush ignore it, why did he fail to protect us?
ESKEW: I think right after that memo was issued, the president put in motion a series of actions by his National Security Council. They've been well documented. If you just listen to a guy like Michael Moore, you wouldn't know the full story. But if you read Bob Woodward's book, in the run up to Afghanistan, you'd know the full story. You'd know the reason this president was able to put together that coalition and take on terrorists.
Did we know everything that we should have known ahead of time? Did we imagine everything that we could have imagined, absolutely not. So there is plenty of blame to go around for 20 years of failing to see this grave and growing threat. The president responded very quickly to it after it came to light.
BEGALA: The record is clear. President Bush was warned about bin Laden by President Clinton, by Sandy Berger the national security adviser, the Hart Rudman Commission, by the Gilmore Commission, Dick Clark, his own top terrorism expert and by numerous CIA briefings. And he did nothing. In fact, he asked Dick Cheney to chair a task force on terrorism. It never even met until after September 11. They're too busy handing out your money to Enron and the energy task force...
(CROSSTALK)
ESKEW: Eight years in office, and this crowd he's talking about done nothing done. They fired one rocket at Osama bin Laden. It landed in a tent somewhere. And the man was handed over to us as a problem to deal with.
BEGALA: I'll tell you, Clinton didn't sit there and read "My Pet Goat" when America was under attack for seven minutes, which is what our President Bush did.
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we have got a couple of more questions.
ESKEW: He had a different pet in the Oval Office.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: We're going to take a short break. 360 next, we're going to have more with Paul Begala and Tucker Eskew.
Plus, how I managed to pop up in this final showdown. We'll take my very strange cameo appearance to "The Nth Degree." More from Arizona State University as we count down to the last debate. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We had hoped that George P. Bush would join us, but he's running late. So we're sorry for that, but we're having so much fun here with Paul Begala and senior Bush campaign adviser Tucker Eskew, we're going to keep firing some audience questions to them. And we got a lot of questions. Your question and who you are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Considering that Latinos have not been mentioned in the last two debates, what are each of your candidates going to do to woo the Hispanic vote in the debate?
COOPER: Hispanic vote very important this year. Paul.
BEGALA: Wow, that's a great question. I certainly hope that Kerry gets a chance to talk about his ideas for jobs, first off, because Latino unemployment is at a record high under President Bush. His plans for education, where we need to do a whole lot better job, because the Latino dropout rate under President Bush is still very, very high. And health care, where in the underserved population, Latinos are overrepresented. And so those are the three big areas where the president has frankly failed the Latino community.
COOPER: Tucker?
ESKEW: I think there are a number of issues that could come up. Obviously, when we're in South Florida, a matter of great concern in South Florida was the Cuban-American situation. But I think here at this debate, we're more likely to be talking about health care and education. Those are both issues where President Bush has attacked some of the root problems.
He came to office at a time when a lot of people said we could just ignore some of our disadvantaged students. And the president's No Child Left Behind initiative raised -- dramatically raised funding for schools, including those that focus in the Latino communities, by 48 percent, in fact, while adding some higher standards. And those are starting to show some results.
And in health care, a dramatic issue for the Hispanic community. The president has got plans and a record of accomplishment.
Our opponent has plans for a big government takeover of health care. But we have got a different approach. And we hope to debate that. We think it is of great interest to Hispanics.
COOPER: Let's talk (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a little bit. You had a question (UNINTELLIGIBLE) question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. I have a question, it's for Mr. Begala. If Senator Kerry raises taxes on the rich, and creates only $600 billion, how does he expect to pay for the rest of his $2.3 trillion in programs?
BEGALA: Well, first off, that's not the total of what his spending is. But he said something that's unusual for a politician. He said, you know, if the deficit is larger than we're projecting, I'll trim back on my new spending initiatives. I wish the president would be as responsible and trim back on some of his tax cuts for the rich, which is what has driven us in this hole. Don't forget, my old boss, Bill Clinton, balanced the budget. It's George W. Bush who took the largest surplus in history and took into the largest deficit in history.
He inherited a great situation. And I thought he would be good at inheriting things, given, you know, his background. But apparently not.
COOPER: All right. Let's get another question. Your name and your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joshua. My question is, throughout this whole campaign President Bush has called Senator Kerry a flip-flopper. Yet on the 9/11 Commission, Bush originally opposed it. Then he flip- flopped and then he was for it. Can you tell me why?
ESKEW: I can. You know, there is a big difference between flip- flopping on principles and flip-flopping on tactics. You know, President Bush wanted there to be a thorough examination of what happened on 9/11. And when the tactics came together to create a commission, it was a good idea.
That's a very different thing from what John Kerry does. When he was for the war and then against the war. He's been for and against so many different things throughout this campaign. Again, I'll say my favorite debate is Kerry versus Kerry. The president's change of tactical to get things done, and he's such a strong leader. I think we'll get to talk about that tonight, and I look forward to it.
COOPER: Paul?
BEGALA: I think what he just said, I mean, that's kind of silly. Look, I've had to defend the indefensible too. You can't say that when I change positions, it is because I'm wise and I'm changing tactics, but when the other guy does it, it's flip-flop. That's typical political speech.
COOPER: All right, another question here. A quick one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I'm with the Ralph Nader campaign. I was just wondering why -- why it is that despite the majority opposition to the war, Kerry continues to pursue a pro-war policy.
BEGALA: Well, I don't know if I would describe it in that way, but he is standing for what he believes in. If you don't like it, you need to vote against him. If you do, you need to vote for him.
Here is the problem. The president has gotten us into this quagmire by misleading us. He told it was a grave and growing threat, his words. And it wasn't a grave and growing threat. And John Kerry tried to warn him about that and tried to increase the pressure on Saddam without committing us into this war. And I think it's Bush you need to hold accountable if you don't like this war.
COOPER: We got to end it there, gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Tucker, very quickly.
ESKEW: That's OK. John Edwards said Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat, much stronger word than the president used, and they flip-flopped since then.
COOPER: Tucker Eskew, Paul Begala, thanks for subjecting yourself to the mosh pit over here. We appreciate it. Thanks very much.
ESKEW: Thanks for having us.
COOPER: Coming -- time now for "The Buzz." Earlier, we asked you, which do you think will decide the presidential election? More than 142,000 of you voted. We have a tie. Forty-one percent of you say domestic issues; 41 percent say foreign policy; 18 percent say neither. Not a scientific poll, but it is "The Buzz," and we appreciate you joining us.
And tonight, taking a sign of success to "The Nth Degree."
Blowing your own horn is a terrible thing, so we ask you to forgive us in advance if that's what we seem to be doing. Could be we are too, but well, it's for a reason.
We're about to show you a commercial that will not be seen on CBS, because that network has decided it represents an inappropriate direct appeal to the man moderating tonight's debate. And what has any of this to do with us, you ask? Well, watch. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dear Bob Schieffer. I'm so glad you're coming to Arizona. I'd like you to come visit my school and meet my class's hamster. His name is Humpty.
And I would like you to ask the presidential candidates why Washington cut funding promises to Arizona schools by $182 million.
Love, Anna.
P.S.: My dad thinks you're the greatest, but my mom likes Anderson Cooper. She thinks he's cute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. I'm a little embarrassed. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). This is real acceptance, after all. It's like having a sandwich named after you at a Broadway deli or a rest stop on the freeway. It's what I've dreamed of. I mean, when your name is taken in vain by Madison Avenue, you've arrived for real. Thanks very much.
That's 360 for tonight. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. The debates are an hour away. Our coverage continues now with Paula Zahn. Take it away, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 13, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Tempe, Arizona. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The stakes are high, the candidates set. Just two hours to go until the final debate.
360 starts now.
Tonight, the third and final presidential debate, Bush versus Kerry, your last chance to judge both men side by side.
How each candidate is prepping for tonight's big showdown, the strategies, the arguments, and the all-important facial reactions.
Appealing to Hispanic voters. The president sends his nephew on the campaign trail. Tonight we go 360 with George P. Bush.
Young voters registering in big numbers. But who do they really want in the White House? We go 360 with John Kerry's daughter Vanessa.
Angry words and tough accusation, the candidates punching and counterpunching. Tonight, Paul Begala and Ralph Reed step into the "CROSSFIRE."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(audio interrupt)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(audio interrupt)
KING: ... final showdown with two goals, recapture lost momentum and paint his opponent as a big-spending liberal whose promises add up to higher taxes.
MATTHEW DOWD, BUSH-CHENEY '04: Obviously on one hand, somebody that thinks big government and high taxes is the way to go, and the president who thinks a smaller government with people having more control and lower taxes is the way to go.
KING: Mr. Bush predicts it will be fun, and says his spirits are high. But he will enter the hall under pressure as great as any incumbent has faced since televised debates began 44 years ago. DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: I can't remember a single series in which an incumbent president has lost three in a row. I think it is extremely important that president come out tonight with a win at no worse than a tie.
KING: Senator Kerry enjoys an edge on many domestic issues. But the Bush camp sees the debate stage as an opportunity to force a second look and predicts team Kerry will regret all its talk of a debate sweep.
DOWD: The Kerry campaign sometimes has a tendency to dance on the 50-yard line.
KING: On the economy, Mr. Bush will say job growth is on the upswing and that a Kerry presidency would stifle progress with higher taxes. On health care, Mr. Bush says he would give individuals and businesses tax and other incentives to expand coverage, while Senator Kerry would expand government programs and power.
And on taxes, Mr. Bush will make the case his tax cuts helped end a recession, and that the Democrats' promise to raise taxes only on the wealthy is at odds with a 20-year Senate voting record that includes 98 votes for higher taxes.
GERGEN: The philosophical divide in this campaign has been as about as sharply defined as any campaign we have had since 1980, when Ronald Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, the Bush campaign believes its candidate is much better out on the stump than he is in the debate hall, so they will be happy tonight just to have the debate series over. But they also know, Anderson, the polls have narrowed. Senator Kerry is beginning to pull ahead in some of those Gore states that had been hotly contested. They know the president very much needs to turn in a strong showing tonight, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, John King, thanks for that.
Now, John Kerry is like every other Red Sox fan and believes in omens. And staying in New Mexico last night to watch his team lose to the Yankees can be a good sign.
We'll leave the Curse of the Bambino to the sports journalists and let CNN's Candy Crowley handle the details from the Kerry campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And so they meet again, the president and the senator, who has already declared himself the winner of the first two debates.
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I feel great, fantastic. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You going to do better than the Red Sox?
KERRY: I feel fantastic.
CROWLEY: And why shouldn't he? Since the first debate, Kerry has improved his standing in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) categories that matter, strong and decisive leader, gaining but still trailing the president. Honest and trustworthy, the two men in a dead heat. Even better than that, Kerry pollsters say their numbers show his debate performances have made the most positive impressions on swing voters and undecideds.
Yes, indeed, they are feeling very good at Camp Kerry.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: George Bush asked a very important question in the last debate. Be interesting to see if he asks it again tonight. And you may remember it. It didn't get a lot of attention, but it was a very important question. He said, My time up yet?
CROWLEY: A more tempered approach from Kerry adviser Mike McCurry, who says Kerry is not at all overconfident. He's even got what McCurry calls the lucky tie thing going. He'll be wearing the same one he did in the first two debates, the color described by McCurry as powerful red.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: But more powerful even than a lucky tie, the Kerry campaign believes they have the physics of motion in their favor. They note, said one aide, the president has to turn things around. The senator merely has to keep things going, Anderson.
COOPER: I got to get me some of those power ties. I'm wearing, like, weakling black here. All right, Candy Crowley, thanks for that.
President Bush and Senator Kerry haven't said a word yet tonight. But to give us a better idea of what they will be saying and what they should be saying are CNN "CROSSFIRE" co-host Paul Begala and Bush campaign adviser Ralph Reed.
Thanks very much for being with us.
RALPH REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.
COOPER: Ralph, let's start off with you. Does the Bush camp have to do something differently tonight? Does the president have to do something different in this debate?
REED: Well, I think the pressure tonight is on John Kerry. I think if you...
COOPER: How so?
REED: Well, if you look at the polling, he's behind by 4 in the ABC News track, he's behind by 3 in the "Washington Post" track, he's down by 3 in the CBS News track. And you look at states that Gore carried four years ago, they're within the margin of error today. Or we're ahead, like Wisconsin, like West -- like Iowa, like...
COOPER: Were you pleased with the president's past debate performances (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I'll tell you why. The Kerry people are focused on polls asking, Who do you think won the debate? That's a stylistic determination based on who you think is the better talker. But when they are asked, Who did you agree with more, who did you like more, who did you believe more? George W. Bush is winning all of those hand down.
And people want a leader that they trust and agree with. And John Kerry doesn't share the values of the mainstream of America, nor does he have the stands on the issues, and that's (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Paul, is Ralph looking at the right polls?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, here's the problem. The president just six weeks ago was 9 points ahead of John Kerry, as Ralph (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Not when you average them out. It was five.
BEGALA: ... question, on this question -- on this question -- Let me finish my point. On the question of who's more honest and trustworthy, today the president trails by 2. So when you go from up 9 on trustworthy to minus 2, it makes it harder to launch the kinds of attacks that the president needs to and probably wants to launch tonight, because his credibility has been really damaged in the last six weeks (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: So you're saying the president has to attack tonight. What does John Kerry have to do?
BEGALA: Well, the problem with his attack is, he's lost his own credibility. I think what Kerry needs to do -- there are two different domestic agendas here, supposed to be a domestic debate. There's two different domestic agendas. Kerry's is economic. It's jobs, it's health care, it's outsourcing.
Bush's is social. He wants to talk about abortion and gays and divisive social issues that he hopes will rev up his base. So which domestic agenda we debate tonight may decide who wins the debate.
COOPER: Ralph, go ahead.
BEGALA: Well, I just think that is completely wrong. I mean, listen, what we want to talk about tonight is the fact that John Kerry has the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate over the last 20 years.
COOPER: Wait a minute, where did you get that? Where do you get that?
REED: Americans for Democratic Action.
COOPER: Uh-huh, OK, because the National Journal thing that the president keeps referring to, I mean, that's a kind of a distortion, because, I mean, the National Journal poll is only one year.
REED: Well, that's for one session. But the ADA rating, which is the gold standard for rating members of Congress as to whether they're liberal or conservative, it's sort of the liberal analog to the American Conservative Union, says that by a 2-point margin, John Kerry over the last 20 years has compiled the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate, which is hard to do when you're in the same chamber with Ted Kennedy.
But he's pulled it off. Now, how has he pulled it off? He's voted for higher taxes 350 times. He's voted for...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... I thought it was 98, it was 98...
(CROSSTALK)
REED: ... no, 350 times for higher taxes, 98 times he voted for tax increases.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: ... just, just voting for, for, like tax reductions that aren't as big as the Republican tax reductions.
REED: Exactly.
COOPER: OK.
REED: He's voted, for example, eight times to increase taxes on Social Security benefits. That's out of the mainstream. That's not where the American people are.
COOPER: Paul, let me ask you, is John, is, is John Kerry the most liberal senator?
BEGALA: No, that's silly. And here's the problem. Ralph's message actually might work if there were an open seat election, the way it was in 2000. We had no incumbent. The problem is, we do have an incumbent, and he has a four-year record, and it's that record that's on trial.
Now, he promised us he'd create 6 million new jobs. He's 7 million jobs short of that. He promised us he'd balance the budget, he's about $4 million short of that. I mean...
COOPER: Well, why doesn't John Kerry go...
BEGALA: ... he's got a record he's got to defend...
COOPER: But John Kerry doesn't... BEGALA: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) president.
COOPER: ... but John Kerry doesn't answer this liberal charge at all. I mean, and the president has said over and over in the last several weeks he's the most liberal senator. Why doesn't John Kerry? I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), is it true, so that John Kerry can't say anything about it because it's simply true?
BEGALA: The problem of being accused of a liberal is two things, I think. Voters think you'll spend their money and you won't fight for their country. Well, John Kerry helped to balance the budget that George Bush put into deficit, so I don't think we have to worry about him on spending the way we do with Bush.
And as far as fighting for our country, I mean, George W. Bush was AWOL from the National Guard, John Kerry was fighting in Vietnam. I don't think we have to worry about Kerry being strong on (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: But 48 percent of voters think Kerry actually will raise taxes. I mean, are they just wrong, or (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) raise taxes on overpaid political consultants to talk show hosts, yes.
REED: Well, not...
(CROSSTALK)
REED: He's going to raise taxes on 900,000 small businesses...
BEGALA: This is actually factually false.
REED: ... that create 85 percent of the jobs. It isn't just us. It is somebody who owns a laundromat, it's somebody who started a restaurant last year, it's...
BEGALA: If you make more than $200,000 a year...
REED: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) creating jobs.
BEGALA: ... if you make more than 200 grand a year...
COOPER: Paul, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: ... your taxes are going to go up.
REED: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: Less than 200 grand a year, your taxes are going to go down.
REED: Well, let me just, let me just, I let you talk. Just let me talk. The reason why that is a salacious and flawed argument is because, if you are a small business in America and you're a subchapter-S or you're an LLC or you're a limited liability partnership, you file your tax return for your business on your personal return. So any business in America that grosses $200,000 or more is going to get hit with a gut punch by John Kerry.
BEGALA: You know what, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: Why, why when you're trying to create jobs would you punch small business owners who create...
COOPER: All right, I'm going to let Paul...
REED: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: ... respond, and then we got to wrap it up.
BEGALA: What's been instructive here is that we haven't heard one word about the president's record from Ralph, who's the best in the business, because Ralph, even Ralph, who really is a genius, can't defend this record. And that's the record that is on trial here. Has the president done a good job of creating jobs? No. Balancing the budget, no. Protecting the environment, no. Expanding health care, no. And that's what the debate's going to be about tonight.
REED: Two million new jobs in the strongest economy in four years. And I can defend it...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
REED: ... and he'll defend it tonight.
BEGALA: Great, great, if you want to keep things going Bush's way, you need to vote for Ralph's candidate. If you want a change, you got to vote for Kerry.
COOPER: Ralph Reed, Paul Begala, thanks very much.
REED: You bet.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
BEGALA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: 360 next, a dead heat in the last presidential debate. What a night it is going to be. With an election this close, it is not just what you say, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as we all know by now, how you look. When cutaway shots can make all the difference, that is raw politics ahead.
Also tonight, the next generation, George P. Bush and Vanessa Kerry. We are bringing you all the angles live from Arizona State University, a crowd very excited for what will happen here tonight.
COOPER: First, let's take a look, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well, no doubt the candidates are well rehearsed, armed with their positions, their attack lines, and their zingers. Advisers prepare them to stay on message, of course, focused. But the candidates themselves have to remember they're in focus constantly, especially when it comes to those reaction shots. The camera never lies. Like it or not, that is raw politics. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Sure, what the candidates say during the debates is important.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our plan is working.
KERRY: I think my plan is better.
COOPER: But what people really notice is how they look when they speak.
KERRY: Right into the camera. Yes.
COOPER: And when they don't.
Of course, candidates know they're being videotaped during the 90-minute debate. But what they don't know is which one of the 10 cameras is on, and what ends up on air. That's why candidates should always beware of what TV producers call cutaways, wide shots, over- the-shoulder shots, two-shots, and, of course, the split screens.
In a 32-page memorandum, the two camps tried to forbid these reaction shots to prevent their candidates from being caught off guard. But the TV networks ignored the ban during the first two debates, leading some moments like this.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Body language says a great deal. Candidates worry about it, because they often find it harder to control than the words they actually use in the debates.
COOPER: Like when Al Gore kept sighing during the 2000 debate, or when the first George Bush peeked at his watch in 1992. And in 1988, Dan Quayle became the proverbial deer caught in the headlights.
SCHNEIDER: Every candidate has learned the lesson, you're always on camera during a debate. You're never off camera. Don't show any gesture, don't make any face, don't scowl, don't sigh, because people, the camera is on you all the time, and people are watching you every second.
COOPER: Watching your language, even when you're silent, that is raw politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The camera is always on. Words to live by.
Let's talk about strategy, what each candidate needs to do in the debate to score points with voters.
Tonight, joining me from Watertown, Massachusetts, is Alan Schroeder, an associate professor at Northeastern University School of Journalism.
Professor, thanks very much for being with us. You're also the author of the book "Presidential Debates: Forty Years of High-Risk TV." Welcome.
PROF. ALAN SCHROEDER, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
COOPER: What, let's talk about Bush and Kerry. What does Bush need to do tonight that he hasn't done in the last two debates?
SCHROEDER: Well, I think that for one thing, Bush stylistically needs to calm down a little bit. Bush has become the Mount St. Helens of presidential debaters. There's always a little steam coming off, and it looks like he might blow his stack.
So what I'd like to see him do is just calmly present his case. He's got a decent case to make. But stylistically, he's got some obstacles to overcome here.
COOPER: And what about those reaction shots for the president? I mean, I, I, someone must have shown him tapes after the first debate. Does he need to continue to sort of watch his reaction?
SCHROEDER: Yes, he does. And you actually saw that in the second debate. You saw how he was trying to control those facial reactions and the smirk, particularly, and the things that he was criticized for. And, of course, this is the same format tonight, as was the case in the first debate in Miami. So it is a perilous format for Bush.
COOPER: Yes, let's talk about John Kerry now, what he needs to do. And does this podium format favor him in some way?
SCHROEDER: I think it does in some way. But, you know, it's interesting about Kerry, because although he's won the first two debates, he hasn't exactly captured the hearts of the country, I would say. And if he's ever going to turn on the charm, this might be the time to do it.
COOPER: Does he need to do something differently in terms of -- I mean, being more aggressive? I mean, there are some people I've been reading today who are saying he sort of needs to maybe rein it in a little bit.
SCHROEDER: Well, it is so much in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people thought that Bush's level of aggression was appropriate. Others found it too much. And the same probably with John Kerry. Kerry is a more placid debater. He doesn't have that sort of a high- voltage aspect to him that Bush does.
COOPER: You know, a lot of people criticize these debates. Some people said they're not even really debates. Yet others now are saying, you know, these have been pretty exciting. I mean, a lot has changed (UNINTELLIGIBLE) given these two debates. How do you judge them, you know, sort of from the historical standpoint?
SCHROEDER: I think they're as exciting as they can be within the confines of this format. And that's true every debate cycle. You know, the candidates filled in so many protective layers for themselves. But in the final analysis, what's going to happen on live television happens, and there is not much they can do to control it. So this series is about on a par with some of the ones in the past.
COOPER: All right. We'll be watching tonight. Professor Alan Schroeder, appreciate you joining us. Thanks very much.
SCHROEDER: Thank you.
COOPER: 360 next, Bush and Kerry under pressure. Who has what it takes to pull out -- oh, look, the guy's like, Oh, look, I'm on TV. Who has what it takes to pull off a win in the last presidential debate? Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff join us live. Find out what the media will be watching for along with the voters.
Plus, George P. Bush and Vanessa Kerry. They are joining us live as well.
And you, the young voters, go 360 with "CROSSFIRE." The audience is going to ask some tough questions.
First, this 360 challenge.
Since 1960, how many presidential elections have had no debates? Two, three, five, or candidates have debated every election? The answer when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Earlier, we asked, Since 1960, how many presidential elections have not had debates? The answer, three. The candidates didn't debate in 1964, 1968, or 1972.
Welcome back. We are live on the campus of ASU, where students are very excited about tonight's debate in an hour and 37 minutes away.
Tonight's debate is a lot like final "Jeopardy." Everything may be riding on just one answer. And with the race a virtual tie, the winner could claim victory to a much bigger prize, of course, in November.
Here to talk about tonight's debate is my CNN colleagues Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff.
Good to see both of you.
Wolf, let's start with you. Since you're down here in the mosh pit wearing your Britney Spears microphone, what are you looking for tonight? WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. We're looking for one mistake that either of these candidates might make that could make the difference. This is a really, really close race. I'll especially be interested to see if Bush goes after his conservative base, or if he's going to go after that undecided swing vote, which may not like some of the so-called red meat that his conservative base wants.
It's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tough road, a delicate line for him to him walk. We'll see which audience he's more interested in capturing, energizing his conservative base, or trying to reach out to the moderate middle and bring some of those voters over to his side.
COOPER: Judy, I mean, there is so much pressure on tonight's debate. What are you going to be watching for?
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm going to be looking to see how President Bush defends his record on domestic issues, on the economy. As we know, he is vulnerable on some of these issues, the Democrats say, health care, education, the environment. I want to see how he's going to defend himself.
And with John Kerry, I'm interested in seeing how he defends against charges that his solutions are all going to cost a lot more in tax dollars, and that they are going to involve a larger government bureaucracy.
But, Anderson, aside from all that, I'm going to be looking to see how these two men come across personally to us, the viewer, on television.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, Wolf, personality has become so important in this race. I mean, who people like does make a difference in terms of who they vote for.
BLITZER: And it is so tough for these guys. Yet you either come out swinging and potentially alienate some people and say, he's mean and nasty, he's not a nice guy, or, you sort of become a nice guy, and you don't really slug it out with your opponent. So it's a tough challenge, which way you're going to go. And I think a lot of viewers are going to have to make up their own minds, you know, what is the proper balance between tough and on the one hand and nice on the other hand?
COOPER: Judy, have you seen the styles of these two debaters change over the course of these debates?
WOODRUFF: No question, Anderson. In the first debate, President Bush was almost subdued. You know, you saw a lot of the smirks and the rolling of the eyes. In the second debate, he was much feistier, even angrier, if you will. I think John Kerry, we've seen a little more consistency. He's been, you know, sort of, Here are the facts, here is my belief.
Tonight, you're right, what Wolf said is exactly right. They've got to walk this fine line. They both need to be presidential. But they need to be passionate, but not too passionate. They can't be so angry or so determined that they come across as alienating people. So it's a tall order for both of them.
COOPER: A lot of note taking, I think we'll see a lot. All that sage nodding and note taking.
Judy Woodruff, thanks very much. An hour and 35 minutes to this debate. Wolf Blitzer, thanks very much for braving the mosh pit.
Today's buzz is this. Which do you think will decide the presidential election, domestic issues, foreign policy, or neither? Log onto CNN.com/360, cast your vote. More than 135,000 of you have already voted. We're going to have results at the end of the program tonight. Get in on it.
360 next, crashing the party. We're going to talk with the other big-name candidate who won't be on stage tonight, Ralph Nader. That is ahead.
Also tonight, they've been waiting, and not so quietly. Crowd gets to asks some questions about the election. We'll give them that chance just ahead. Covering all the angles, live from Arizona State University.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Huge crowd here at ASU awaiting this debate. A lot of excited students. Welcome back to a special edition of 360 from the campus of Arizona State University here in Tempe, where later this evening President George W. Bush and Senator John F. Kerry will face one another for the last of their three scheduled debates before the election on the second of November, only 20 days away now.
This promises to be a very important night. The rules, of course, for tonight's debate call for only two podiums on the stage. My next guest probably wishes there were three. Ralph Nader has only 1 percent of the vote in the latest polls. But considering what happened in the 2000 election, and given this year's tight race, that 1 percent may add up big.
Ralph Nader joins me now.
Ralph, thank you for being with us.
RALPH NADER, INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The time had me at 5 percent, but that's OK, we'll give you that one.
COOPER: Different polls, different polls with different numbers.
NADER: Right.
COOPER: You know, we, I've talked to you at other debates. You've said you believe you should be allowed to debate. You were never asked. Why do you think you still should be in this process?
NADER: For one thing, Zogby poll recently had 57 percent of the American people wanted me on the debate. And even higher polls in 2000. I think people want more voices and choices. And I've got a record of 40 years of fighting for the American people. I've got something to say. And I know what some of the better futures are for better life in our country.
COOPER: One of the, one of your big platforms, I mean, is that corporations have sort of taken over the political process. You talk about that a lot.
NADER: Yes.
COOPER: How do you see that playing out tonight in the debates so far?
NADER: Well, look at what isn't debated. Who's for the war? Bush, Kerry. Where's the debate? Who's for cutting back the bloated, wasteful military budget that many generals and admirals retired have been criticizing?
COOPER: You're saying that, you're saying there's no difference between these two men?
NADER: Not on the military budget. Not on the PATRIOT Act. They're both for the PATRIOT Act. Now, they both are not talking about massive billions of dollars in corporate subsidies that the business press reporting on. They're not talking about the need for law and order and cracking down on corporate crime. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Well, both, both candidates would say, there is a difference. I mean, on the PATRIOT Act, John Kerry supports different aspects than, than, than George Bush, he's very critical of some of...
NADER: He's critical of John Ashcroft, but he voted for the PATRIOT Act that gave John Ashcroft the tools. Kerry has a good opportunity. If he starts going after the drug companies, oil and HMOs as the "New York Times" indicated he might, going populous, standing up for the people for a change, he could score points about that corporation in the White House disguised as a human being called George W. Bush.
COOPER: I'm interested what you think as you're watching debates. I mean, I think, the first debate you were watching are the student union and you know, where do you in general watch these debates and what goes through your mind as you see the two men face to face?
NADER: I sort of feel sorry for both of them, because they're expected to audition as if they're preparing for major roles in the detective movie instead of looking at their record. I mean, that's the key thing is to look at their record. Not...
COOPER: So, you think it's all smoke and mirrors debating tactic.
NADER: It is all style. Presidential are they passionate? Why has Bush continually stood for corporations again and again and again against workers, consumers, against people who are subject to pollution.
COOPER: If you look at polls, voters care about personality, they care about who they like and is it somebody I would want to go hang out with. That seems to matter to voters. Is that wrong?
NADER: We all care about candy too, and dessert, but sometimes we like substance in our diet. And that's what I think we have to demand of the politicians. What is their record, not their rhetoric?
COOPER: Do you think the American public is too prone to eating sweets and candy? I mean, they just want -- that's what they're focused on?
NADER: No. That's what their fed on. The horse race and the tactics. I mean, I'm trying to inject the meat, the substance and higher tone in the presidential campaign. I've written this book "The Good Fight." Got another book called "Civic Arousal" directed toward young people.
COOPER: But is there a point where you could say, look, there say short amount of time before this election. In your opinion, I've fought the good fight. I made my points, I've put a third voice in this race. Any chance you could pull out before the race?
NADER: No. It is clear you haven't looked at our Web site votenader.org.
COOPER: I've ask you this question every time.
NADER: This is a major effort to reform the political system and break up the two parties who are controlling it. It is like a two party electoral dictatorship excluding all competition. And it is all about money. It is all about money. It is not about the merits. It is not about the necessities of the American people. Not about these young people that are worried about the draft, who are worried about high tuition hikes, worried about failed war on drugs, their drugs being outsourced and not having health insurance when they graduate. Those are the issues.
COOPER: We'll see if they're debated tonight. Ralph Nader, thank you for joining us.
Now let's turn to Paula Zahn when we continue what's coming up on prime-time politics -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson. I hope you can hear me.
What we're going to do tonight is try to give the audience a preview of what we can expect of both the candidates. While we don't know exactly what either one of them has choreographed, we know you can expect the president to utter the phrase Massachusetts liberal, in as many words, many times during this debate. The president, we are told, is going to try to cast this as the great ideological divide between him and John Kerry. And John Kerry on the other hand is coming into this knowing that the majority of the polls show that he is dominant on the range of domestic issues and probably be addressing tonight. But the challenge for him is to try to further show this audience watching tonight, if they're not watching baseball, of course, what his core is.
The president, we know, has lost a lot of support among women over the last couple of weeks, particularly coming out of debate No. 2. Some women found him aggressive. It will be interesting to see, because of where he stands in the podium tonight, if he will have been trained to tone that down at all. And we'll see how disciplined John Kerry's answers are tonight lengthwise.
COOPER: All right, Paula, we'll be watching starting at 8:00 with you. Thanks very much.
360 next, the next generation goes head to head. Vanessa Kerry joins me live. And George P. Bush right here.
Also tonight, this very patient audience gets to ask the tough questions. Covering all the angles live from Arizona State University. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And the crowd keeps getting bigger and bigger here. We're back live at Arizona State University here in Tempe, Arizona. Crowds, known as good students and good parties, they're also known as the much coveted youth vote. To reach these voters, President Bush and Senator Kerry are turning some young volunteers who happen to look a lot like them.
In moment you'll meet George Prescott Bush, the president's nephew. Up first, Vanessa Kerry, Senator John Kerry's daughter. She joins me here live. Vanessa, good to see you again.
VANESSA KERRY, JOHN KERRY'S DAUGHTER: Good to see you, too.
COOPER: Is the John Kerry we're going to see tonight a different John Kerry? Is he going to be the same strategies he's used in the last two debates?
V. KERRY: I don't think there has been any strategy. What I've been seeing is my father being my father, just talk about the truth, his ideas for the country. I think what it is, this is the first time this country has gotten to see my father unfiltered.
COOPER: But a lot of people who have been following your father's campaign very closely say it was a more focused John Kerry than they had seen before. You say no?
V. KERRY: No. I think -- I've watched my dad for the last year and a half talk about his ideas for this country, the ways we can make it better, the fact we can have health care for all Americans -- cover all children immediately. The fact that we can fully fund education in this country, make college education more affordable. That we can fight a more effective war on terror, that we can be better and have a plan in Iraq and do better by our troops who are serving there.
He's been talking about that. I don't think that's any different.
COOPER: But the Republicans have been responding, though, is how is he going to pay for all this?
V. KERRY: He's been very honest about that. You can tell him.
Look, if we roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy, those making over $200,000, we can fully fund education and fully fund my father's health care plan.
COOPER: You say the whole thing funded by rolling back that.
V. KERRY: That's the beginning. You also keep jobs from going overseas, you close the tax loopholes that prevent corporations from setting up headquarters and keeping their profits overseas. You can do a number of things.
You need to have a commitment to fiscal responsibility so that we're not growing our deficit. My generation is going to be paying for that.
COOPER: You're a medical student at Harvard. You're taking time off to help out your dad's campaign. What about tort reform? There has been a lot of criticism by the Republicans that health care -- their system is hurting because of all of these lawsuits.
V. KERRY: First of all, lawsuits are costing less than 1 percent of all health care dollars as it is now. There are much bigger problems in health care now. They say it is more than 1 percent because of the other sort of reactive ways the doctors...
COOPER: They say that 1 percent is more than just that 1 percent, because of the other sort of, reactive ways the doctors...
V. KERRY: It is true. We need to adjust malpractice. My father has a plan to adjust malpractice. He believes we need an independent third body to prevent those cases that do not deserve to go to court from going to court, so that the system doesn't get flooded. And we also have to have a cap on punitive damages.
That there are some cases that do deserve to go forward. And we need to be honest. And that's what the legal system is for and the jury and the court and all that. He has a plan for dealing with malpractice, go to www.johnkerry.com. It is all there.
COOPER: A lot of what you've been doing is talking to young people. Obviously, 72, and 92, were the big years for youth voter turnout.
V. KERRY: Do you get an incredible sense there will be a lot of young voter turnout?
I get an incredible sense there's going to be a lot a young people.
COOPER: OK, play to the crowd.
V. KERRY: No I do. I spent a lot of time traveling the country. I've had events put together in less than 17 hours where over 500 students show up. They're engaged. They know their future is on the line. They know it's beyond just the next four years.
COOPER: But it's tough -- I mean, no really knows how to get young voters. Because there's not one issue that the young voters...
V. KERRY: You don't need to get young voters. You just need to tell them the truth. You need to tell them what's at stake. And you need to speak honestly. And you need to always promise that your going to fight for them. That's what it is about. It is not about pandering, it's about being willing to fight for something you believe in. And that's what my fathers always been about. And that's exactly what he's going to do if he gets elected president of the United States.
COOPER: A lot of rumors on the Internet about what -- the president was wearing something on his back during that podium debate. You to think he was?
V. KERRY: Didn't help him if he was.
COOPER: All right. You dodged the question, but I'll let you go with that. Vanessa Kerry, always good to see you. Thanks very much.
V. KERRY: Thanks.
COOPER: Well, we're going to talk to George P. Bush in just a couple of moments, running a little bit late. Coming up next on "360."
Also this wild and crazy crowd gets its turn. The audience ask the tough questions when we come back. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Which of the following was not a moderator in a presidential debate, Bernard Shaw, Barbara Walters, Walter Cronkite, or Bill Moyers? The answer when we come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Earlier we asked, Which of the following was not a moderator in a presidential debate? The answer Walter Cronkite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Well, unlike the last debate, the candidates won't be taking any questions from the crowd tonight. We have quite a crowd here. We will. We want to field some questions to CNN's "CROSSFIRE" co-host, Paul Begala, and senior Bush campaign adviser, Tucker Eskew.
Gentleman, I appreciate both of you joining us.
Let me start off with you, clearly your a Bush supporter here.
Your name and your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I traveled all the way down from Salt Lake. My name is Tom. My question is for Paul. John Kerry talks about the changes he wants to make, but he's been in the United States Senate for 20 years. Why is it that every Kerry supporter I talk to can't point to one original idea that he's been able to push through the United States Senate?
Why give him four years -- why give him four years -- why give him the four years in the White House just to waste away, when he's wasted 20 years in the United States Senate.
BEGALA: Great question, Tom. Let me give you one you asked for one. There are things called Kerry agreements, that presidents for 20 years have had to use to try to crack down on terrorist financing. Now John Kerry wrote that into the law in 1988, 18-years-ago -- 16- years-ago, my math is bad. Sixteen years ago, he wrote these agreements to crack down on terrorist financing. Now, that was 88. Back. in 1988 George W. Bush was try trying to decide whether to draft Sammy Sosa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Answer the question. Don't get nasty.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knock it off.
BEGALA: Here's one good example of what Kerry has done in the Senate.
COOPER: All right. Another question. Over here. You're a Kerry supporter. Your name and question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Kendra (ph). I'm -- my question is for Mr. Eskew. I'm wondering where the president is so insistent on putting down Senators Kerry and Edwards rather than focusing on his own policies and positive aspects if he has any.
TUCKER ESKEW, SENIOR BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I'll take that. I'll take that. I've worked for the president at the White House. I know he's got a record. He talks about his record. But some people don't have a record. And some people don't have a vision. So sure the president talks about John Kerry's failure to get anything done. What Paul cited, I'm sorry. In South Carolina where I come from, that's small potatoes. That doesn't amount to anything. President Bush, let me tell you, passed the most sweeping education reform bill in 30 years. Saw to it that we took down the Taliban when many people thought that war was a mistake. BEGALA: Who? Who thought it was a mistake? Who thought it was a mistake.
ESKEW: Beyond that the president passed sweeping tax reform, got middle class tax cuts, turned the economy around, handed to him a recession, got 2 million jobs in the last year. And you cannot counter that with a record of achievement on John Kerry's
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Many people thought the war in Afghanistan...
ESKEW: ... president record and his.
BEGALA: Tucker, you said, many people thought the war in Afghanistan was a mistake, name two.
ESKEW: Well, Al Gore...
BEGALA: Al Gore, strongly supported it. He said Bush is my commander in chief.
(CROSSTALK)
ESKEW: liberal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) thought it was a bad idea.
BEGALA: You can't name one.
ESKEW: The other ones said, oh, anyone would have done that. But you know, President Bush is a unique visionary leader. Even if people disagree with him know where he stands and you can't claim that about John Kerry.
COOPER: I've got to write that phrase down. Did you say the Amen Corner of the liberal punditocracy.
ESKEW: Yes.
COOPER: I've never heard that before. I've got to write that down.
What's your question and name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Erica (ph). And my question is for the both of you. With three weeks left before the election, do you still think the debate will sway voters?
COOPER: Paul.
BEGALA: Yes. There is still a lot of voters who are moving back and forth. I mean, look just a few weeks going to president had a serious lead against, John Kerry. Now he's tied or kind of trailing. Yes, I think, in particularly because there is the first time they've actually had to talk about domestic issues.
So, if you think we are doing a good job of creating jobs and balancing the budget, and expanding health care, you should vote for Bush. If you want a direction, and new idea's to create more jobs and provide more health care you should vote for Kerry.
ESKEW: OK, we're going to make a difference in this debate. But I think the best debate besides Kerry v. Bush is Kerry vs. Kerry. And if we get back to that one, I think, we'll have a lot of fun.
BEGALA: I'm going to tell you this is a land speed to turn any question into an attack on John Kerry. The problem is John Kerry doesn't have the four year record that President Bush has, and that's why Tucker can't defend it.
COOPER: All right. We've got a couple more question you guys can avoid answering. Hold on.
Your question and your name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Dukes from Trenton, Ohio. I traveled to ask this question, Tucker. One month prior to September 11, President Bush was given a historic memo entitled Osama bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States.
Why did President Bush ignore it, why did he fail to protect us?
ESKEW: I think right after that memo was issued, the president put in motion a series of actions by his National Security Council. They've been well documented. If you just listen to a guy like Michael Moore, you wouldn't know the full story. But if you read Bob Woodward's book, in the run up to Afghanistan, you'd know the full story. You'd know the reason this president was able to put together that coalition and take on terrorists.
Did we know everything that we should have known ahead of time? Did we imagine everything that we could have imagined, absolutely not. So there is plenty of blame to go around for 20 years of failing to see this grave and growing threat. The president responded very quickly to it after it came to light.
BEGALA: The record is clear. President Bush was warned about bin Laden by President Clinton, by Sandy Berger the national security adviser, the Hart Rudman Commission, by the Gilmore Commission, Dick Clark, his own top terrorism expert and by numerous CIA briefings. And he did nothing. In fact, he asked Dick Cheney to chair a task force on terrorism. It never even met until after September 11. They're too busy handing out your money to Enron and the energy task force...
(CROSSTALK)
ESKEW: Eight years in office, and this crowd he's talking about done nothing done. They fired one rocket at Osama bin Laden. It landed in a tent somewhere. And the man was handed over to us as a problem to deal with.
BEGALA: I'll tell you, Clinton didn't sit there and read "My Pet Goat" when America was under attack for seven minutes, which is what our President Bush did.
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we have got a couple of more questions.
ESKEW: He had a different pet in the Oval Office.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: We're going to take a short break. 360 next, we're going to have more with Paul Begala and Tucker Eskew.
Plus, how I managed to pop up in this final showdown. We'll take my very strange cameo appearance to "The Nth Degree." More from Arizona State University as we count down to the last debate. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We had hoped that George P. Bush would join us, but he's running late. So we're sorry for that, but we're having so much fun here with Paul Begala and senior Bush campaign adviser Tucker Eskew, we're going to keep firing some audience questions to them. And we got a lot of questions. Your question and who you are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Considering that Latinos have not been mentioned in the last two debates, what are each of your candidates going to do to woo the Hispanic vote in the debate?
COOPER: Hispanic vote very important this year. Paul.
BEGALA: Wow, that's a great question. I certainly hope that Kerry gets a chance to talk about his ideas for jobs, first off, because Latino unemployment is at a record high under President Bush. His plans for education, where we need to do a whole lot better job, because the Latino dropout rate under President Bush is still very, very high. And health care, where in the underserved population, Latinos are overrepresented. And so those are the three big areas where the president has frankly failed the Latino community.
COOPER: Tucker?
ESKEW: I think there are a number of issues that could come up. Obviously, when we're in South Florida, a matter of great concern in South Florida was the Cuban-American situation. But I think here at this debate, we're more likely to be talking about health care and education. Those are both issues where President Bush has attacked some of the root problems.
He came to office at a time when a lot of people said we could just ignore some of our disadvantaged students. And the president's No Child Left Behind initiative raised -- dramatically raised funding for schools, including those that focus in the Latino communities, by 48 percent, in fact, while adding some higher standards. And those are starting to show some results.
And in health care, a dramatic issue for the Hispanic community. The president has got plans and a record of accomplishment.
Our opponent has plans for a big government takeover of health care. But we have got a different approach. And we hope to debate that. We think it is of great interest to Hispanics.
COOPER: Let's talk (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a little bit. You had a question (UNINTELLIGIBLE) question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. I have a question, it's for Mr. Begala. If Senator Kerry raises taxes on the rich, and creates only $600 billion, how does he expect to pay for the rest of his $2.3 trillion in programs?
BEGALA: Well, first off, that's not the total of what his spending is. But he said something that's unusual for a politician. He said, you know, if the deficit is larger than we're projecting, I'll trim back on my new spending initiatives. I wish the president would be as responsible and trim back on some of his tax cuts for the rich, which is what has driven us in this hole. Don't forget, my old boss, Bill Clinton, balanced the budget. It's George W. Bush who took the largest surplus in history and took into the largest deficit in history.
He inherited a great situation. And I thought he would be good at inheriting things, given, you know, his background. But apparently not.
COOPER: All right. Let's get another question. Your name and your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joshua. My question is, throughout this whole campaign President Bush has called Senator Kerry a flip-flopper. Yet on the 9/11 Commission, Bush originally opposed it. Then he flip- flopped and then he was for it. Can you tell me why?
ESKEW: I can. You know, there is a big difference between flip- flopping on principles and flip-flopping on tactics. You know, President Bush wanted there to be a thorough examination of what happened on 9/11. And when the tactics came together to create a commission, it was a good idea.
That's a very different thing from what John Kerry does. When he was for the war and then against the war. He's been for and against so many different things throughout this campaign. Again, I'll say my favorite debate is Kerry versus Kerry. The president's change of tactical to get things done, and he's such a strong leader. I think we'll get to talk about that tonight, and I look forward to it.
COOPER: Paul?
BEGALA: I think what he just said, I mean, that's kind of silly. Look, I've had to defend the indefensible too. You can't say that when I change positions, it is because I'm wise and I'm changing tactics, but when the other guy does it, it's flip-flop. That's typical political speech.
COOPER: All right, another question here. A quick one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I'm with the Ralph Nader campaign. I was just wondering why -- why it is that despite the majority opposition to the war, Kerry continues to pursue a pro-war policy.
BEGALA: Well, I don't know if I would describe it in that way, but he is standing for what he believes in. If you don't like it, you need to vote against him. If you do, you need to vote for him.
Here is the problem. The president has gotten us into this quagmire by misleading us. He told it was a grave and growing threat, his words. And it wasn't a grave and growing threat. And John Kerry tried to warn him about that and tried to increase the pressure on Saddam without committing us into this war. And I think it's Bush you need to hold accountable if you don't like this war.
COOPER: We got to end it there, gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Tucker, very quickly.
ESKEW: That's OK. John Edwards said Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat, much stronger word than the president used, and they flip-flopped since then.
COOPER: Tucker Eskew, Paul Begala, thanks for subjecting yourself to the mosh pit over here. We appreciate it. Thanks very much.
ESKEW: Thanks for having us.
COOPER: Coming -- time now for "The Buzz." Earlier, we asked you, which do you think will decide the presidential election? More than 142,000 of you voted. We have a tie. Forty-one percent of you say domestic issues; 41 percent say foreign policy; 18 percent say neither. Not a scientific poll, but it is "The Buzz," and we appreciate you joining us.
And tonight, taking a sign of success to "The Nth Degree."
Blowing your own horn is a terrible thing, so we ask you to forgive us in advance if that's what we seem to be doing. Could be we are too, but well, it's for a reason.
We're about to show you a commercial that will not be seen on CBS, because that network has decided it represents an inappropriate direct appeal to the man moderating tonight's debate. And what has any of this to do with us, you ask? Well, watch. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dear Bob Schieffer. I'm so glad you're coming to Arizona. I'd like you to come visit my school and meet my class's hamster. His name is Humpty.
And I would like you to ask the presidential candidates why Washington cut funding promises to Arizona schools by $182 million.
Love, Anna.
P.S.: My dad thinks you're the greatest, but my mom likes Anderson Cooper. She thinks he's cute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. I'm a little embarrassed. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). This is real acceptance, after all. It's like having a sandwich named after you at a Broadway deli or a rest stop on the freeway. It's what I've dreamed of. I mean, when your name is taken in vain by Madison Avenue, you've arrived for real. Thanks very much.
That's 360 for tonight. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. The debates are an hour away. Our coverage continues now with Paula Zahn. Take it away, Paula.
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